CBO - ObamaCare may cut 2.5 million jobs

[sturg33]

Link: CBO: Obamacare Is A Tax On Work, May Cut Full-Time Workforce By 2.5 Million (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2014/02/04/cbo-explains-how-obamacare-will-tax-low-wage-workers/)

At least it's "affordable"

[Oklahomahawk]

Or perhaps... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/02/05/cbo-director-obamacare-will-reduce-unemployment/)

[57Brave]

Link: CBO: Obamacare Is A Tax On Work, May Cut Full-Time Workforce By 2.5 Million (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2014/02/04/cbo-explains-how-obamacare-will-tax-low-wage-workers/)

At least it's "affordable"

maybe read the comments and other articles sans headline.

Sturg = this is getting old. You latch onto any headline you find that supports some cockamamy preconceived notion and like a puppy run with it.
Read my friend ---- read.

You see, this is why your HC went up 79%. Details man - details

[sturg33]

maybe read the comments and other articles sans headline.

Sturg = this is getting old. You latch onto any headline you find that supports some cockamamy preconceived notion and like a puppy run with it.
Read my friend ---- read.

You see, this is why your HC went up 79%. Details man - details

LOL. You're such an idiot. My healthcare went up 79% because of new regulations forced on my company. It would have gone up 79% whether I read about it or not.

[57Brave]

This was published 9:30ish this morning. Paul Ryan explained the report along the lines of this report in Congress today and yes, sometimes I am an idiot. But, I wasn't blindsided when my HC rose 79% and I didn't post an inflammatory claim 24 hours after it had been debunked.

Here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/05/media-cbo-obamacare-report_n_4730216.html

[sturg33]

I wasn't blindsided either. What should I have done to stop it from happening?

[57Brave]

Quit posting false stuff. It clouds your brain and clutters the board

[AerchAngel]

Quit posting false stuff. It clouds your brain and clutters the board

You are mistaken, Sturg might clutter the board on occasion, but you own it with your false reporting from the way left leaning sites.

Sturg is an independent to the core so he has no RIGHT WING to lean on people as they don't want or side with him. So......

Go ahead and attack independents and be wrong while the RIGHT laugh at you and they are.

[Oklahomahawk]

Mine was from the Washington Post was one of several sites I saw that debunked the far right (yet again) scare tactics. I like sturg but he's NOT an independent. If you'll check out the links I put up on the minimum wage thread you'll see what I mean, but sadly even though I like sturg he has fallen into some sites that are farther to the right than Dick Cheney but they call themselves Libertarians so...

[weso1]

Mine was from the Washington Post was one of several sites I saw that debunked the far right (yet again) scare tactics. I like sturg but he's NOT an independent. If you'll check out the links I put up on the minimum wage thread you'll see what I mean, but sadly even though I like sturg he has fallen into some sites that are farther to the right than Dick Cheney but they call themselves Libertarians so...

It's misleading though to say that it cuts unemployment, because it only does so by lowering the workforce. The article you posted didn't debunk the article itself, just the unemployment line Sturg used, which I guess was your intent, but still I wanted to get that out there. The articles main complaint seems to be this:

Translation? The old employer sponsored system forced people to stay in jobs they didn’t like because they needed the health insurance coverage. The new Obamacare system will force people to stay out of jobs they do want because they need to maximize their subsidies. And this is social progress?

The congressional actuaries go on to state that forgoing Obamacare subsidies and returning to full time work with health benefits (for lower wage and middle class workers) amounts to an average, implicit tax of about 15% paid by each worker. CBO does note that these considerations only affect a segment of the workforce – specifically the middle class and working class who earn annual incomes that put them below 400% of the Federal poverty level (about $95,000 for a family of four). But that represents a large portion of the labor market.

[57Brave]

To those fast approaching retirement time. Tell me how being able to afford HC without having a job they don't otherwise need is a bad thing.
Suppose it is nothing more than a greeter at Wal-Mart. Could a single Mom otherwise unemployed take that spot?

And, if you do have a point - what can be done to fix it?
Solutions-solutions -solutions


Funny thing about ACA is the deeper it becomes entrenched in our way of life - the claims get more and more outlandish.
Let's be very clear. ACA will not "cut 2.5 million jobs"

[sturg33]

Mine was from the Washington Post was one of several sites I saw that debunked the far right (yet again) scare tactics. I like sturg but he's NOT an independent. If you'll check out the links I put up on the minimum wage thread you'll see what I mean, but sadly even though I like sturg he has fallen into some sites that are farther to the right than Dick Cheney but they call themselves Libertarians so...

More right than Dick Cheney? I didn't know Cheney was right?

Can you explain what about my positions makes you think I'm such a monster?

[sturg33]

Quit posting false stuff. It clouds your brain and clutters the board

I'm still trying to figure out how I could have avoided my 78% increase (other than quitting my job)… I've been wanting you to explain that for months now

[weso1]

To those fast approaching retirement time. Tell me how being able to afford HC without having a job they don't otherwise need is a bad thing.
Suppose it is nothing more than a greeter at Wal-Mart. Could a single Mom otherwise unemployed take that spot?

And, if you do have a point - what can be done to fix it?
Solutions-solutions -solutions


Funny thing about ACA is the deeper it becomes entrenched in our way of life - the claims get more and more outlandish.
Let's be very clear. ACA will not "cut 2.5 million jobs"

Your second sentence isn't the problem though. See what I posted above.

About how to fix it... from the article:

These disincentives can’t be easily fixed — they are baked into the structure of the Obamacare subsidies. A refundable tax credit, similar to the one offered in some conservative plans, sidesteps some of these effects.

[57Brave]

We could speculate the intricate nuances of an unproven program until the cows come home. That is what this board is all about . But,
Bottom line today is Obamacare did not cut 2.5 Million Jobs and posting this headline is, putting it kindly, misleading. SA trick I'd expect from Karl Rove. But, no one here is a supporter of Rove or Palin, or Bush, or Howard Kane, or Newt, or Santorum, or ...

To true Libertarians this tactic is why Gary Johnson is a pipe dream

[sturg33]

The headline says "may cut" and article explains over ten year.

Still waiting to hear how I could have avoided that 79%…

[57Brave]

and the moon may be made of green cheese


even worse is one or two fellow Braves fans thanked you for speculating 2.5 Million people "may" lose their jobs.
That is how you could have avoided your HC increase

[sturg33]

and the moon may be made of green cheese


even worse is one or two fellow Braves fans thanked you for speculating 2.5 Million people "may" lose their jobs.
That is how you could have avoided your HC increase

Can you explain how I could have avoided the increase? - By not posting this thread??

[goldfly]

Sturg is an independent to the core

uh what?

[BedellBrave]

Glad a lot of you are paying more for your HC. Particularly you youngsters.

[Oklahomahawk]

Mine has actually gone DOWN about 50%.........Just sayin'..........Of course I hear that a group of Arkansas Republicans are working behind the scenes trying to get the funding taken away since I guess the right people aren't making quite enough under the new system. You see some of the insurance providers were smart and made a deal with the government to provide coverage and apparently still made a pretty good profit out of the deal. I guess some people only like profits when the right people make them, huh?

[Oklahomahawk]

It's misleading though to say that it cuts unemployment, because it only does so by lowering the workforce. The article you posted didn't debunk the article itself, just the unemployment line Sturg used, which I guess was your point

Yes, of course that was my point. I don't really think any of us know how this is going to play out, Republicans tend to believe what Republican "experts" say, which is that it won't work, and Democrats, who have been after this sort of thing since, well forever, believe it will work because their "experts" say it will and I really don't think anyone knows for sure.

You guys used to give strug a lot of grief for being a Paulbot, but I promise you the places he has migrated to since Dr. Paul retired are NOT an improvement. Did you happen to check out either of the sites I posted the other day in the Minimum wage thread. Sturg is a good guy but at least one of those sites I posted makes the most radical TEA party folks you've ever heard of look like the Mary Poppins fan club.

[BedellBrave]

Mine has actually gone DOWN about 50%.........Just sayin'..........Of course I hear that a group of Arkansas Republicans are working behind the scenes trying to get the funding taken away since I guess the right people aren't making quite enough under the new system. You see some of the insurance providers were smart and made a deal with the government to provide coverage and apparently still made a pretty good profit out of the deal. I guess some people only like profits when the right people make them, huh?


That's cause you are an old fart, government worker, right Hawk??

[Oklahomahawk]

That's cause you are an old fart, government worker, right Hawk??

Well I am yes but that's not why, do you remember back when the Braves were first getting to be good back in the early 90's (come on, you know you do) and the Tomahawk Chop thing made the politically correct crowd all up in arms, and some Native American groups were angry, etc.? Do you remember how the smartest group of them responded? There was a group of Cherokees up in your state (you are from NC, right??) who made and sold like 30,000 foam tomahawks. Who was the smartest group during the protest? Those who bitched and moaned and got some air time or those who got creative and prospered from the deal? Well apparently some insurance companies in AR got creative and agreed to do the state employees insurance, under the umbrella requirements of the ACA and now our coverage is literally about 1/2 of what it was. The deductibles and copays are all a little different some are a little higher others are a little cheaper so I think it will balance out for the most part.

You see I'm not an insurance or economics expert like some of you guys but I do know greed when I see it. The insurance companies had a super sweet deal the old way, they made profits off of other people's suffering and kicked people with serious health problems off their coverage and left them to die (what is this but a death panel???) and they didn't like anyone messing with their sweetheart deal. Well some other companies came along, saw they could make money by guaranteeing the coverages, etc. and made the deal, leaving the old crew wondering what happened.

Remember when I criticized insurance companies as making a killing at other people's expense and someone (Toma4life I think but I won't swear to it) came in with the Repub talking point that they really didn't make much at all, on a few cents per unit or some such nonsense? Well the insurance companies just break it down like that so they can appear like paupers. Wal Mart breaks their stuff down into units too and I don't think any of us would say they aren't making money, would we?

Remember David14? I haven't heard anything from him in a long time, I hope he's OK these days. Remember one of his biggest problems facing this nation was public sector unions and how they were so greedy and were unfair in how they had guaranteed government jobs but wanted to almost hold the government hostage for even more money? Well what has the insurance company club done over the years? They're just operating at the supply end of things, just like the oil companies, the big banks, etc. Repubs don't seem to mind (and correct me if you're not in with them on this) when greed gets out of control at the supply end of the chain, only when it's perceived to exist at the demand or lower socio-economic end of the chain.

[BedellBrave]

Hawk, I don't think it is fair that your HC insurance costs went down. You are just a winner in life's lottery I suppose. Whatcha going to do with your savings?

[Tapate50]

Mine has actually gone DOWN about 50%.........Just sayin'..........Of course I hear that a group of Arkansas Republicans are working behind the scenes trying to get the funding taken away since I guess the right people aren't making quite enough under the new system. You see some of the insurance providers were smart and made a deal with the government to provide coverage and apparently still made a pretty good profit out of the deal. I guess some people only like profits when the right people make them, huh?

How on earth would anyone know if they have made a profit or not yet?

[goldfly]

how many would be lost if we just got rid of employees offering healthcare and got rid of this bad plan and went with a single payer system?

[BedellBrave]

Might as well now. So long as the single payer system has higher tax rates on all those younger or richer than me.

[Oklahomahawk]

How on earth would anyone know if they have made a profit or not yet?

Companies make all those statements, plans, etc. based on what they EXPECT to make, then go from there. It's insurance companies, remember? They already know more about us, our tendencies, even our life expectancies than we do. Of course they'd have a pretty good idea what they're going to make in any average year.

[Oklahomahawk]

Hawk, I don't think it is fair that your HC insurance costs went down. You are just a winner in life's lottery I suppose. Whatcha going to do with your savings?

Yeah, right!!! I've had more than my share (in my opinion anyway) of the other stuff, I'll sure take a good break when I get one.

[Tapate50]

Companies make all those statements, plans, etc. based on what they EXPECT to make, then go from there. It's insurance companies, remember? They already know more about us, our tendencies, even our life expectancies than we do. Of course they'd have a pretty good idea what they're going to make in any average year.

After having to ask no questions as to pre existing conditions, id say it will be at least til policies end that we have any ideas on returns. Probably really soon to tell

[sturg33]

You guys used to give strug a lot of grief for being a Paulbot, but I promise you the places he has migrated to since Dr. Paul retired are NOT an improvement. Did you happen to check out either of the sites I posted the other day in the Minimum wage thread. Sturg is a good guy but at least one of those sites I posted makes the most radical TEA party folks you've ever heard of look like the Mary Poppins fan club.

What are you talking about?

[BedellBrave]

Yeah, right!!! I've had more than my share (in my opinion anyway) of the other stuff, I'll sure take a good break when I get one.


But there are hurting people out there. Don't go getting greedy! ;-)

[57Brave]

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-gruber-cbo-report-economy-obamacare-20140209,0,3178846.story#axzz2svt58V1k



"But the good news has not gotten much attention because the CBO also projected that, within the next several years, healthcare reform may reduce employment and worker hours by the equivalent of about 2 million full-time positions. We told you so, critics declare: Obamacare is a job killer!

But actually the CBO did not project lost jobs at all. Job leaving is not the same as job losing. Many Americans who may eventually leave jobs or reduce their work hours will do so by choice to make themselves and their families better off. Voluntary reductions are not a cost of the healthcare reform law, they are a benefit.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/commentary/la-oe-gruber-cbo-report-economy-obamacare-20140209,0,3178846.story#ixzz2svxq9kM1

//////////////////////

[sturg33]

Can you help me understand how I could have avoided my 79% increase? I've been waiting for some time now

[57Brave]

learn to ask better questions

[sturg33]

Which question should I have asked, that would have not made my health care go up?

[57Brave]

If one train leaves a station in Phoenix and another train leaves a station in Baltimore at the same time - will Dan Uggla be with the team opening day?

That will get you started

[sturg33]

If one train leaves a station in Phoenix and another train leaves a station in Baltimore at the same time - will Dan Uggla be with the team opening day?

That will get you started

I see. So when you make fun of me for getting a 79% raise on HC because "I didn't read the details," you really have no justification for it but have to find some way to defend the horrible law.

Got it

[57Brave]

I hate like hell answering questions with questions but here goes.
Why did you float this inflammatory rise in rates to begin with?

Maybe something simple like a PM to OK Hawk asking what he did -- that might be a start.

Until then, you being the only person I have heard of who's rates have risen by that astronomical number, will have to endure my ridicule for being a) a free loader on your boss/companies policy in contrast with anyone else that "takes" b) so quick to post anything that rings of ACA failure. Regardless the validity. Because there hasn't to my memory been anything you've shown concerning ACA that hasn't been debunked within a day.

Maybe that is the question you should have asked "why am I always wrong on this topic"
then of course the Uggla thing
Sheeeesh
///////////////////////

Perhaps you will address the topic instead of talking about "you"
A simple I was wrong might go a long way

[sturg33]

I hate like hell answering questions with questions but here goes.
Why did you float this inflammatory rise in rates to begin with?

Maybe something simple like a PM to OK Hawk asking what he did -- that might be a start.

Until then, you being the only person I have heard of who's rates have risen by that astronomical number, will have to endure my ridicule for being a) a free loader on your boss/companies policy in contrast with anyone else that "takes" b) so quick to post anything that rings of ACA failure. Regardless the validity. Because there hasn't to my memory been anything you've shown concerning ACA that hasn't been debunked within a day.

Maybe that is the question you should have asked "why am I always wrong on this topic"
then of course the Uggla thing
Sheeeesh
///////////////////////

Perhaps you will address the topic instead of talking about "you"
A simple I was wrong might go a long way


ACA is bad for employment. My own company, a $6B private company, shifted over 500 employees from full time to part time. Why?

Our health care costs went up across the board...

I posted stories about companies that laid off their employees. You were absent. Why?

I posted a story last week about an automotive company. Your response is always that the company must be greedy. You're a moron.

But man, I really wish you would have told me how I could have avoided my increase. But I'm young and healthy, and you old moochers, like always, are gonna take until you die.

[sturg33]

The quickest google search in history brought me here:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/60661/7-companies-that-have-to-lay-off-employees-to-deal-with-obamacare

Those public schools sure are greedy!

[sturg33]

And never forget... "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.

Oops.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/19/home-depot-sends-20000-employees-into-obamacare/


(Above is the first link I found- let me know if you want thousands more)

[57Brave]

The quickest google search in history brought me here:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/60661/7-companies-that-have-to-lay-off-employees-to-deal-with-obamacare

Those public schools sure are greedy!

The Administration addressed this yesterday -- correcting whatever it was they thought needed correcting/tweeking/tuning up etc etc etc.
You do understand nothing of this sort has ever been attempted at this scale - so, there will be adjustment and glitches. I am impressed they are handling them this quickly

[57Brave]

And never forget... "If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.

Oops.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/19/home-depot-sends-20000-employees-into-obamacare/


(Above is the first link I found- let me know if you want thousands more)

Not sure how people being unable to get insurance one day have it available the next is a bad thing. Again- the Administration put the kibosh to business' shifting people to part time to avoid having to pony up their share. Don't believe COSTCO is doing it that way. Check out a few that are complying and making it work to their advantage.

Once again, had we gotten single payer -- they would already be insured and of course that 79% increase thingy ...
/////////////////

Pretty certain Daily Caller has scoured the woods finding anyone with an ACA axe to grind.

[57Brave]

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/30/3226271/obamacare-premiums-employer-plans/