Braves sign Ervin Santana to 1 year 14.1M deal

[Hawk]

@ajcbraves: Hearing from person connected to Royals that #Braves could be making a run at Santana. [ http://twitter.com/ajcbraves/status/443103738149240832 ]

Mods, feel free to merge if necessary.

[tvsportscaster]

Thought this needed its own thread.

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves · 36s
Hearing from person connected to Royals that #Braves could be making a run at Santana.

[thethe]

I would not want to give up a first round pick unless its a multiple year deal.

[Dalyn]

Wish we would've done this when we weren't so obviously desperate. Going to have to give him a two or three year deal to make it work, I imagine. Either way, I am glad they are no longer ignoring the problem.

[Heyward]

I would not want to give up a first round pick unless its a multiple year deal.

Was about to post the same thing.

1 year would be dumb, if they give up the pick, might as well do 4-5 years.

[thethe]

Wish we would've done this when we weren't so obviously desperate. Going to have to give him a two or three year deal to make it work, I imagine. Either way, I am glad they are no longer ignoring the problem.

Doesn't make sense to give up a pick for a one year deal anyway IMO.

At this point, this move is a no-brainer.

[tvsportscaster]

I would not want to give up a first round pick unless its a multiple year deal.

Remember, though, the Braves are already getting a pick for McCann which is number 32 so in essence they would still have a first round pick

[Dalyn]

Doesn't make sense to give up a pick for a one year deal anyway IMO.

At this point, this move is a no-brainer.

Yeah.

[Hawk]

If the Braves are willing to sacrifice that pick (shudder), I would say there is a strong possibility of a match here given Santana's preference for a one-year deal to boost value.

Apparently the Orioles and Blue Jays offered $13MM.

I bet the Braves could come in between $10-11MM, maybe lower if incentives are bundled in.

[tvsportscaster]

If the Braves are willing to sacrifice that pick (shudder), I would say there is a strong possibility of a match here given Santana's preference for a one-year deal to boost value.

Yeah, I don't give a crap about the pick, if they need him to help the team, especially when they already have a pick six spots later.

[Heyward]

Remember, though, the Braves are already getting a pick for McCann which is number 32 so in essence they would still have a first round pick

Sure but what use is giving up a pick for 1 year really do?

Just sign him to a 3-5 year deal if they give up a pick.

[thethe]

Remember, though, the Braves are already getting a pick for McCann which is number 32 so in essence they would still have a first round pick

I'm a greedy SOB. I want two!!!!

But in all seriousness, the time is right.

[thethe]

Well, I guess you could hope that Santana has a great year and then earns another first round pick in the offseason.

[NinersSBChamps]

Wish we would've done this when we weren't so obviously desperate. Going to have to give him a two or three year deal to make it work, I imagine. Either way, I am glad they are no longer ignoring the problem.

Yeah it's sad though that it took injuries to three potential starters (Minor, Medlen, Beachy) before they attempted to fix the issue.

[thewupk]

Yeah it's sad though that it took injuries to three potential starters (Minor, Medlen, Beachy) before they attempted to fix the issue.

Because getting one starter fixes having 3 others go down. They are only looking at this because medlen is likely done.

[cajunrevenge]

Why would somene in the royals organzation know what the braves are doing?

Also it is taking all my patience not to insult the debbie downers cheering these injuries as if any of this other than beachy was predictable.

[Heyward]

Yeah it's sad though that it took injuries to three potential starters (Minor, Medlen, Beachy) before they attempted to fix the issue.

because they knew they'd lose 3 starters before Opening Day?

BLANK STARE.

[NinersSBChamps]

Because getting one starter fixes having 3 others go down. They are only looking at this because medlen is likely done.

Obviously getting Santana for instance doesn't fix three holes, but relying on the likes of Freddy Garcia and Gavin Floyd were bad indicators if anything injury wise happened to the rotation.

[NinersSBChamps]

because they knew they'd lose 3 starters before Opening Day?

BLANK STARE.

Please don't act like Beachy potentially getting hurt again is a surprise. Medlen has had surgery as well. Minor has been healthy for the most part in his career, but the other two have a history of dealing with these ailments. Not too mention Gavin Floyd coming back from the same surgeries as the aforementioned pitchers. Stop me when you detect the pattern...

:blank stare:

[jpx7]

Why would somene in the royals organzation know what the braves are doing?

Also it is taking all my patience not to insult the debbie downers cheering these injuries as if any of this other than beachy was predictable.

I don't think anyone is cheering about this, or happy at all—especially with its meaning that Medlen's entire career might be in jeopardy—that the Braves are in this position. But, as thethe said in the other thread, the Beachy issues were predictable and the Braves shouldn't have depended on his successfully returning to fill one of the top four spots. Instead, having Beachy as one of the contingency plans, and slotting a better / more reliable starter ahead of him, would have ameliorated a lot of the issues that have arisen with the Minor and Medlen injuries.

[thethe]

Please don't act like Beachy potentially getting hurt again is a surprise. Medlen has had surgery as well. Minor has been healthy for the most part in his career, but the other two have a history of dealing with these ailments. Not too mention Gavin Floyd coming back from the same surgeries as the aforementioned pitchers. Stop me when you detect the pattern...

:blank stare:

Saying Medlen is an injury concern is the same as saying any pitcher in the majors are an injury concern. There was no reason to think that Medlen would get hurt. TJS happens so often now.

[AUTiger7222]

Please don't act like Beachy potentially getting hurt again is a surprise. Medlen has had surgery as well. Minor has been healthy for the most part in his career, but the other two have a history of dealing with these ailments. Not too mention Gavin Floyd coming back from the same surgeries as the aforementioned pitchers. Stop me when you detect the pattern...

:blank stare:

Probably 80-90% of pitchers these days have had Tommy John surgery at some point in their careers. I mean seriously dude? It's part of the current age of baseball.

[ChapelHillMatt]

If Medlen's injury is serious they have no choice but to sign Santana. I mean you can't have Garcia and Floyd in your rotation all year. One of them maybe, but not both.

You can't count on Beachy, he can't go a week without having some issue pop up. I'm afraid he might be done.

[NYCBrave]

Since when do we even have money to sign Santana for this year, let alone a 4 year deal? Doing so might prevent us from signing Heyward long term.

[Dalyn]

I don't think anyone is cheering about this, or happy at all—especially with its meaning that Medlen's entire career might be in jeopardy—that the Braves are in this position. But, as thethe said in the other thread, the Beachy issues were predictable and the Braves shouldn't have depended on his successfully returning to fill one of the top four spots. Instead, having Beachy as one of the contingency plans, and slotting a better / more reliable starter ahead of him, would have ameliorated a lot of the issues that have arisen with the Minor and Medlen injuries.

Exactly. I feel terrible for Medlen. But these guys just want to insult. That's what they do.

[The Chosen One]

How about calling up Javier Vasquez?

When he retired, he said the only team he would play for is Atlanta.

Could be wayyyy cheaper than Ervin Santana, 37 years old but he was always a pitcher not a fireballer.

[BRule]

Chipper tweeting that the Braves know Medlen is done for the year......

[The Chosen One]

Chipper tweeting that the Braves know Medlen is done for the year......

:Sad:

[BRule]

Assuming he's right.....No Medlen, Beachy doesn't look so good......good start.

Lets go Ervin

[The Chosen One]

I didn't see that on Chipper's twitter anywhere.

[BRule]

Will Carroll RT'd it.....so maybe fake? or deleted?

[keithlaw]

Will Carroll ‏@injuryexpert 6m
Whoops - sorry, that was not from the real Chipper Jones. I HATE that Twitter allows those accounts to exist. Got RTed into my timeline.

[weso1]

Don't be so quick to discount Fake Chipper Jones.

[jpx7]

What he really meant:


Will Carroll ‏@injuryexpert 6m
Whoops - sorry, that was not from the real Chipper Jones. I HATE that Twitter doesn't do all my work as a journalist for me. I shouldn't have to be responsible for fact-checking—even to a cursory extent—things that I promulgate.

[Dalyn]

Braves signed Horacio Ramirez.

[jpx7]

Braves signed Horacio Ramirez.

Please don't: those are trigger words for me.

[Dalyn]

Please don't: those are trigger words for me.

It's true.

[drewdat]

Why would somene in the royals organzation know what the braves are doing?

If they don't know what the Braves are doing now, then how will they know who to sign three years later?

[NinersSBChamps]

Horam is back?!?

Excuse me while....:pound::pound:

[jsebe10]

If they don't know what the Braves are doing now, then how will they know who to sign three years later?

Does anyone think that it's possible that Medlen just has a forearm strain?

Beachy just pulled his bicep. Lol

I've read nothing to indicate the Braves have hit the panic button besides the posters on here talking about giving bad shoulder Santana $11-$14 mil

[Dalyn]

Does anyone think that it's possible that Medlen just has a forearm strain?

Beachy just pulled his bicep. Lol

I've read nothing to indicate the Braves have hit the panic button besides the posters on here talking about giving bad shoulder Santana $11-$14 mil

"Santana was examined independently by Dr. James Andrews on Oct. 28 and had MRIs performed on both his elbow and shoulder. Andrews, according to Santana’s agents, said the elbow was “completely healed.”

Santana’s last trip to the DL ended on July 3, 2009. Since then, only Justin Verlander, Felix Hernandez, James Shields and Clayton Kershaw have thrown more innings without logging DL time."

[bravesnumberone]

I was just getting amped for the season, and three of our starters are injured in the spring. Are you ****ing kidding me?

[jpx7]

It's true.

:Gasp:

At least I see that they've stipulated that he assist the team "from an off-field location during games."

[Dalyn]

:Gasp:

At least I see that they've stipulated that he assist the team "from an off-field location during games."

Very similar to his pitching.

[skillet]

For starters, I've got my fingers crossed for both Kris and Brandon. It is still quite possible neither is hurt bad. Regardless, I sure as heck wouldn't over react and waste a 1st round pick and big money on Santana. That would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[bravesnumberone]

What the hell are Albie Lopez and Shane Reynolds doing these days? Maybe the Braves will just score 900 runs this year, and none of this will matter.

[Dalyn]

For starters, I've got my fingers crossed for both Kris and Brandon. It is still quite possible neither is hurt bad. Regardless, I sure as heck wouldn't over react and waste a 1st round pick and big money on Santana. That would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Some babies suck.

[Dalyn]

What the hell are Albie Lopez and Shane Reynolds doing these days? Maybe the Braves will just score 900 runs this year, and none of this will matter.

If either of those guys pitch, the team will have to score those 900 runs in one game. :icwudt:

[Knucksie]

I don't think anyone is cheering about this, or happy at all—especially with its meaning that Medlen's entire career might be in jeopardy—that the Braves are in this position. But, as thethe said in the other thread, the Beachy issues were predictable and the Braves shouldn't have depended on his successfully returning to fill one of the top four spots. Instead, having Beachy as one of the contingency plans, and slotting a better / more reliable starter ahead of him, would have ameliorated a lot of the issues that have arisen with the Minor and Medlen injuries.

This is really big news, but this post is particulary impressive. It may be the first time that somebody's used the word, "ameliorated," in a post on this board.

[jpx7]

Some babies suck.

http://www.wicz.com/images/funzone/galleries/King%20Of%20The%20Hill%20Season%2013/koh_MangerBabyEinstein_09_2F.jpg

[Knucksie]

Braves signed Horacio Ramirez.

The only transactions, that could turn this forum into more pure hyper hysterics, would be signing re-signing Jordan & Mondesi for the bench.

[Hawk]

From MLBTR:

7:26pm: After throwing a 2-inning simulated game today, Santana may still wait a day or two before choosing a destination, reports Enrique Rojas of ESPNDeportes.com (Twitter links, in Spanish).

The Braves are indeed very interested, with financial concerns the main limitation. Meanwhile, the Royals have put in a call on Santana. The Blue Jays and Orioles have standing offers out, Rojas adds.

[BRule]

Ervin is expected to make his decision by Thursday.....down to Baltimore, Toronto and Atlanta.

[skillet]

Ervin is expected to make his decision by Thursday.....down to Baltimore, Toronto and Atlanta.

Please let it be the Orioles or Blue Jays.

[BRule]

I'll take ATL

[thethe]

We need starting pitching. This team is close. I want Santana here.

[jpx7]

Ervin is expected to make his decision by Thursday.....down to Baltimore, Toronto and Atlanta.


Please let it be the Orioles or Blue Jays.

To me, whether or not acquiring Santana is a good idea depends a lot more on contract length than specific cost (whether annual or total). A one-year deal is probably short enough to make relinquishing the Braves' earliest pick difficult to justify—though of course, if Santana pitches well, an qualifying-offer next year could net the Braves a bit of compensation in that regard. A three-plus year deal, on the other hand, isn't just problematic in the normal way multi-year contracts usually are, but moreover because Santana's salary jeopardizing the re-signing of Heyward, Upton, or both would be a travesty.

If, however, the Braves can lock Santana down for two years (at a reasonable price), then I think the acquisition isn't unjustifiable, given the cost-certainty of much of the remaining roster (and, remember, Wren himself did dub such cost-certainty "flexibility").

[thethe]

Why would Santana choose Bal/TOR. AL East in hitters ballparks. He could come to Atlanta in the NL pitch great and still get another big contract.

[thewupk]

Why would Santana choose Bal/TOR. AL East in hitters ballparks. He could come to Atlanta in the NL pitch great and still get another big contract.

Because the Braves likely can't match the money Bal/Tor is offering.

[thethe]

Because the Braves likely can't match the money Bal/Tor is offering.

Yeah but I'd imagine the market will be different next year as salaries are ballooning due to increased revenues. If he has another good year then his price skyrockets. I guess it isn't easy to turn down money though.

[thewupk]

Yeah but I'd imagine the market will be different next year as salaries are ballooning due to increased revenues. If he has another good year then his price skyrockets. I guess it isn't easy to turn down money though.

I doubt it skyrockets that much. The reason he hasn't signed a good deal already is because of the qualifying offer. If he has another good year that team will put that out there again likely leaving him in the same spot. It sucks for the non premier free agents.

[thethe]

I doubt it skyrockets that much. The reason he hasn't signed a good deal already is because of the qualifying offer. If he has another good year that team will put that out there again likely leaving him in the same spot. It sucks for the non premier free agents.

Teams like the Braves are spending money though. The business of baseball is very healthy right now.

[thewupk]

Teams like the Braves are spending money though. The business of baseball is very healthy right now.

Mainly on our own guys. The point is if you have a qualifying offer attached to you. You are likely going to sign late and less then what you would expect unless you are a premier free agent.

[tvsportscaster]

To me, whether or not acquiring Santana is a good idea depends a lot more on contract length than specific cost (whether annual or total). A one-year deal is probably short enough to make relinquishing the Braves' earliest pick difficult to justify—though of course, if Santana pitches well, an qualifying-offer next year could net the Braves a bit of compensation in that regard. A three-plus year deal, on the other hand, isn't just problematic in the normal way multi-year contracts usually are, but moreover because Santana's salary jeopardizing the re-signing of Heyward, Upton, or both would be a travesty.

If, however, the Braves can lock Santana down for two years (at a reasonable price), then I think the acquisition isn't unjustifiable, given the cost-certainty of much of the remaining roster (and, remember, Wren himself did dub such cost-certainty "flexibility").

The Braves are in a win now mode. They can't let giving up a first round draft pick factor into the decision. If they think Santana can help them win and they have the money to do it, then it's a no brainer, and you still have the pick from the Yankees, so it's not like you are left with nothing.

[skillet]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24478147/jays-and-orioles-remain-in-on-santana-who-seems-to-prefer-1-year-deal

Sounds mostly likely the O's or Jays.

[50PoundHead]

I loathe giving up draft picks, but I think tvsportscaster is correct. We have the Yankee pick. We have a lot of our younger players tied up contractually. Need more pitching.

[thewupk]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24478147/jays-and-orioles-remain-in-on-santana-who-seems-to-prefer-1-year-deal

Sounds mostly likely the O's or Jays.

Sounds about right. I just don't see how that can fit 13-14 million into this years budget.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Sounds about right. I just don't see how that can fit 13-14 million into this years budget.

Well we probably could have had Santana if we wouldn't have overpaid for that piece of garbage arm by the name of Gavin Floyd.

[thewupk]

Well we probably could have had Santana if we wouldn't have overpaid for that piece of garbage arm by the name of Gavin Floyd.

Who knows. But if Floyd returns to form then he is a better pitcher then Santana.

[Millwood1Hitter]

No way Floyd is better than Santana. While Santana has been inconsistent and has had 2 subpar years which appear to be an fluke, Floyd has proven to be consistently...........mediocre except for one year.

And stuff wise, not even close, Santana is the type of guy that could come to the NL and an environment like Atlanta and become an absolute stud like Vasquez was in his one year here.

And combine that after the fact that Santana is healthy and proven to be durable, while Floyd is attempting to come back from major surgery and the decesion isn't even close.

[tvsportscaster]

No way Floyd is better than Santana. While Santana has been inconsistent and has had 2 subpar years which appear to be an fluke, Floyd has proven to be consistently...........mediocre except for one year.

And stuff wise, not even close, Santana is the type of guy that could come to the NL and an environment like Atlanta and become an absolute stud like Vasquez was in his one year here.

And combine that after the fact that Santana is healthy and proven to be durable, while Floyd is attempting to come back from major surgery and the decesion isn't even close.

Yeah, I know finances come into it, but outside of that it's a no brainer, and yes, Santana would probably thrive in the NL in that ballpark, as opposed to pitching everyday in the AL East. It will be interesting, but I think the Braves pretty much figure Medlen is toast and they need to make a move.

[thewupk]

No way Floyd is better than Santana. While Santana has been inconsistent and has had 2 subpar years which appear to be an fluke, Floyd has proven to be consistently...........mediocre except for one year.

And stuff wise, not even close, Santana is the type of guy that could come to the NL and an environment like Atlanta and become an absolute stud like Vasquez was in his one year here.

And combine that after the fact that Santana is healthy and proven to be durable, while Floyd is attempting to come back from major surgery and the decesion isn't even close.

Floyd WAR from 08-11. 2.4, 4.2, 4.0, 3.4. That's pretty damn good. From 09-12 Santana was at 1.1, 1.9, 2.6, -1.0. You are right. Not really close.

[thethe]

Weird how nobody realizes that Floyd was really good before his injury.

[weso1]

Weird how nobody realizes that Floyd was really good before his injury.

For the White Sox too. Really tough park to pitch in. I didn't realize he was that good until I looked up his stats. I did a complete 180 after my initial grumps about the signing. It was a very underrated signing. And now is even more critical.

[weso1]

The Braves are in a win now mode. They can't let giving up a first round draft pick factor into the decision. If they think Santana can help them win and they have the money to do it, then it's a no brainer, and you still have the pick from the Yankees, so it's not like you are left with nothing.

I guess I agree with this, but it's not easy to do so considering the Braves are in a position where they need to rebuild the farm.

[Millwood1Hitter]

I don't care what the statistics say, I've seen him pitch enough throughout the years to know that the guy is not a good pitcher, mediocre at best, even pitching in the confines if Chicago.

The guy is all smoke and mirrors ala Russ Ortiz.

[thewupk]

I don't care what the statistics say, I've seen him pitch enough throughout the years to know that the guy is not a good pitcher, mediocre at best, even pitching in the confines if Chicago.

The guy is all smoke and mirrors ala Russ Ortiz.

If he was all smoke and mirrors he wouldn't of had a strong FIP before getting hurt.

[thethe]

Bowman tweeted we are close to signing Santana!

[COGPK]

It's happening. We're getting Santana.

[thethe]

So glad our season isn't over before the calendar turns to April. If this guy duplicates what he did last year then we should still be favorites to make the postseason.

Most importantly the message this signing sends is big. Ownership is FINALLY investing back into the team and its clear the objective is to be as good as possible when we go into Cobb County. It truly is a BRAVE NEW WORLD!

[thethe]

Enrique Rojas/ESPN ‏@Enrique_Rojas1 9m
Ervin Santana and #Braves agree 1 year deal, pending physical. Santana arriving to Braves park in Orlando right now.

[thewupk]

Will be interested to see how much the deal is for. I suspect it's less then what the O's and Jays offered but he does have a better chance of having a better year in Atlanta.

[thethe]

Not loving the one year deal aspect but its a move that needed to get done. If he has a dynamite season (improves on last year) then he should fetch us back a first round pick next year.

Hopefully there is a team option on this deal.

[thethe]

Will be interested to see how much the deal is for. I suspect it's less then what the O's and Jays offered but he does have a better chance of having a better year in Atlanta.

This is basically what I predicted last night. He is probably banking on getting a big deal next year hoping that he has a career year pitching in the NL pitching behind a solid defense.

[thethe]

Worst case scenario if he pitching well is that Santana accepts the qualifying offer and the Braves go on a year by year basis which is EXACTLY what you want to do with a starting pitcher.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Damn hope there is an option.

Write this down: I've always really liked Santana's stuff and upside, and I truly believe pitching in the NL and an environment like Atlanta with our defense that this guy becomes an absolute stud much like Vasquez did when we finally were able to get him after attempting to and drooling over years before.

And I'm still hoping for the best for Medlen.

[thewupk]

Worst case scenario if he pitching well is that Santana accepts the qualifying offer and the Braves go on a year by year basis which is EXACTLY what you want to do with a starting pitcher.

Well the Braves and Santana could have a handshake deal where they don't offer the QO next year. Pirates did it with Burnett. So maybe Santana takes less to play here but doesn't have the QO burden next off season.

[BRule]

Love it

[thethe]

Well the Braves and Santana could have a handshake deal where they don't offer the QO next year. Pirates did it with Burnett. So maybe Santana takes less to play here but doesn't have the QO burden next off season.

I would absolutely not be in favor of that but I suppose the Braves were backed into a corner. Hopefully Santana loves it here so much that he wants to sign long term because the Braves need to plan for a future without Medlen and Beachy so a spot in the rotation has opened up.

Teheran
Minor
Santana
Wood
Garcia

Not awful and then when late May comes around you can rest Wood for a couple of weeks to control his innings and slide Floyd in. Then come July 1st your rotation is:

Teheran
Minor
Santana
Wood
Floyd

Thats still a damn fine rotation. Well done Frank!

[thewupk]

I would absolutely not be in favor of that but I suppose the Braves were backed into a corner.

I wouldn't like that either but it's just a possibility.

[COGPK]

I am very happy they only did a one year deal. No reason to strap us for 4 or 5 years with all the young pitching we have. I agree that his numbers will improve in the NL. Almost always does. I'm sure that David Hale is discouraged by the pick up but is encouraged it's only a 1 year deal.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Ben Sheets on speed dial?

[thethe]

Hale could easily slide in if Garcia falters.

[50PoundHead]

Had to do it to compete. Hate giving up the pick, but we have the Yankees' first rounder, so that mitigates the loss.

I run lukewarm-to-cold on Wren. He does some things very well and I'm ecstatic that he locked up a lot of the young core. But after Hudson signed with the Giants, I don't see how he could not have foreseen the need to get another healthy veteran arm with some tread left on the tires for the rotation. Instead, we have Garcia and Floyd.

I never counted on Beachy's return and if the radar gun is accurate, he's going to need a lot more time to get anywhere near the same zipcode in which he was. I hope Minor's injuries aren't serious and they could not have been foreseen. I love Medlen, but I'm not surprised the injury bug bit him again (but that couldn't truly be foreseen either). Wood is going to be good somewhere (pen or rotation), but if he's on an innings limit, there's another hole, albeit minor (no pun intended), in the rotation. Teheran is looking the lights out guy (of course, it's only spring training) that many have predicted him becoming, but he can't pitch every day.

This entire scenario is what makes signing Santana necessary. I just hope the cost isn't too steep. But look at those innings numbers if nothing else. Santana has been very inconsistent, but he eats innings and that is always welcome.

I'm not for wasting money or draft picks, but I think Wren needed to do this.

[thewupk]

Apparently it's 14 million.

[thethe]

Thats a lot of keeeesh

[Millwood1Hitter]

We should just feel fortunate that this late in the game that there was a pitcher of this caliber still on the market and available to sign, otherwise other teams would know that we were desperate and would have tried to absolutely rape us or do nothing or worse yet pick up some piece of garbage late in spring training like JS did in 2003 with Shane Reynolds.

[stpeteirish]

Yeah, concur with most that it was a needed deal and the best news is the owners are willing to go over budget to win now. We were looking at Hale AND Garcia in the rotation and that just can't cut it. Beachy and Medlen are probably done as 200 inning guys and certainly aren't going to do that this year. And nobody's talking about Minor but I'd love to know what the hell is going on with him. Urinary problem cause shoulder soreness? WTF. THere's more to this one.

[keithlaw]

Yeah, concur with most that it was a needed deal and the best news is the owners are willing to go over budget to win now. We were looking at Hale AND Garcia in the rotation and that just can't cut it. Beachy and Medlen are probably done as 200 inning guys and certainly aren't going to do that this year. And nobody's talking about Minor but I'd love to know what the hell is going on with him. Urinary problem cause shoulder soreness? WTF. THere's more to this one.

This isn't an example of liberty being generous. Our profits would be pretty similar whether we signed Santana or not.

[BlackwaterPark]

Apparently it's 14 million.

That can't be true

[thethe]

This isn't an example of liberty being generous. Our profits would be pretty similar whether we signed Santana or not.

I'm not following you. Please elaborate.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Plain and simple, had to do it.

[gilesfan]

More of a neccessity than an actual good deal. 14 mil and a first rounder is a steep price but it had to be done to hope to compete in the NL East.

I hope he can maintain what he did last year which was major improvement over previous 3-4 years. His biggest flaw is HR rate and bein in Atl should help that. KCs defense helped him a bit last year, but having Simmons and a talented OF should help him as well.

A mid 3s to low 4 era is probably expected which isnt terrible for a 3rd starter even if its a steep price.

Wren kind of backed himself in the corner on this one with only Minor as good vet type pitcher. The rest are youngsters, injury concerns, or crappy vets. Having 14 mil to cover up that mistake came in handy.

The alternative was Minor, JT, garcia, Wood, Floyd/Hale and that isnt winning anything.

[thethe]

Hard to say what he will do. It just has the feeling of Javier Vazquez in that he will have a career year here and then be on his way elsewhere.

[zitothebrave]

The alternative was Minor, JT, garcia, Wood, Floyd/Hale and that isnt winning anything.

Assuming health that would give us 4 guys in a 3-4 FIP most likely, or at least 3 and FLoyd in the low 4s. Only Garcia and Hale are bums from that group. Teams have won with way worse rotations than Minor, Julio, Wood, Floyd and Garcia/Hale.

[AUTiger7222]

Santana sucks! I absolutely hate this move. Pathetic walk-to-strikeout ratio.

[weso1]

Hate to lose the pick, but it is what it is. Santana is worth it. I'm actually glad it's just a one year deal. Could be a big year from him too, because he wants big contract next year. Don't care about the amount of the deal as it only impacts us this season.

[thethe]

Assuming health that would give us 4 guys in a 3-4 FIP most likely, or at least 3 and FLoyd in the low 4s. Only Garcia and Hale are bums from that group. Teams have won with way worse rotations than Minor, Julio, Wood, Floyd and Garcia/Hale.

We could have won around 85-90 games with that team and that is assuming breakouts from Heyward. We definitely needed another guy.

[thethe]

Santana sucks! I absolutely hate this move. Pathetic walk-to-strikeout ratio.

It was pretty good last year.

[thethe]

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves 4m
#Braves Wren called it an "incredible decision" by team brass to approve the signing and go well over the planned $100 million payroll limit

[AUTiger7222]

Hard to say what he will do. It just has the feeling of Javier Vazquez in that he will have a career year here and then be on his way elsewhere.

LMAO! Javier Vazquez was actually a very good pitcher when he wasn't trying to pitch for the Yankees. There's nothing to like about Santana. Guy doesn't strikeout people and when you don't strikeout people you can't have as poor of walk numbers as he does.

[thethe]

Good times ahead for Brave fans. If the revenues are still up this year then we could be spending in the 110-120 range in the future consistently.

[gilesfan]

Assuming health that would give us 4 guys in a 3-4 FIP most likely, or at least 3 and FLoyd in the low 4s. Only Garcia and Hale are bums from that group. Teams have won with way worse rotations than Minor, Julio, Wood, Floyd and Garcia/Hale.

If you really believe U get 2 guys to put up above average numbers out of Hale, Wood, Garcia, Floyd then sobeit.

Teams may have won with worse rotations. They likely had great offenses and/or a lack if competition. We have to compete with 4 stud pitchers on the Nats with an offense that is a bit of a question mark outside of Heyward, Freeman, Jup

[thethe]

LMAO! Javier Vazquez was actually a very good pitcher when he wasn't trying to pitch for the Yankees. There's nothing to like about Santana. Guy doesn't strikeout people and when you don't strikeout people you can't have as poor of walk numbers as he does.

He struck out 160+ guys in 4 of his 8 seasons. Only 21 pitchers in the majors last year struck out 160+ guys.

[AUTiger7222]

It was pretty good last year.

It was also his "career" year. Aside from 2008 when he had 214 strikeouts to only 47 walks in 219 innings he's been poor in that area with last year being his 2nd best year in that area. Most years he's barely been about 2 strikeouts for every 1 walk. That's not good.

[BRule]

14.1 mil

Santana has MUCH better career numbers vs the NL, there's no way you can hate this. It's one year, 2 of our starters are done and we are in win now mode.

For the people bitching about the pick, who is the last, late 1st rounder, that the Braves picked that turned out to be good?

[AUTiger7222]

He struck out 160+ guys in 4 of his 8 seasons. Only 21 pitchers in the majors last year struck out 160+ guys.

Most years his WHIP is closer to 1.5 than it is 1.

[AUTiger7222]

14.1 mil

Santana has a MUCH better career numbers vs the NL, there's no way you can hate this. It's one year, 2 of our starters are done and we are in win now mode.

For the people bitching about the pick, who is the last, late 1st rounder, that the Braves picked that turned out to be good?

I don't care about the draft pick. And I'm supposed to be thrilled that Santana has a handful of good starts against NL teams and take that as a sign he'll be great here?

[gilesfan]

LMAO! Javier Vazquez was actually a very good pitcher when he wasn't trying to pitch for the Yankees. There's nothing to like about Santana. Guy doesn't strikeout people and when you don't strikeout people you can't have as poor of walk numbers as he does.

Santana and Vaz are different types of pitchers but there certainly od at least the possibility Santana puts up a very good year. Obviously not striking a ton of people out and being a fly ball pitcher isnt typically a recope for success, but being out of the AL and in a pitcher friendly park should help.

The similarities between vaz and him are that they have chance to be really good or really bad. But at this point what other options are there?

[The Chosen One]

https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/10014571_10152032799662831_2058744249_n.jpg

[Tapate50]

If you really believe U get 2 guys to put up above average numbers out of Hale, Wood, Garcia, Floyd then sobeit.

Teams may have won with worse rotations. They likely had great offenses and/or a lack if competition. We have to compete with 4 stud pitchers on the Nats with an offense that is a bit of a question mark outside of Heyward, Freeman, Jup

Wood can be dominant. I am not sure you watch him make pitch.

[weso1]

LMAO! Javier Vazquez was actually a very good pitcher when he wasn't trying to pitch for the Yankees. There's nothing to like about Santana. Guy doesn't strikeout people and when you don't strikeout people you can't have as poor of walk numbers as he does.

I think you're selling him short. Last season he k'd 160 and walked 50 in the AL.

[thethe]

Most years his WHIP is closer to 1.5 than it is 1.

His WHIP the last four years (Much more relevant than what it was prior):

10 - 1.32
11 - 1.22
12 - 1.27
13 - 1.14

Looks to me like a late bloomer.

[gilesfan]

14.1 mil

Santana has MUCH better career numbers vs the NL, there's no way you can hate this. It's one year, 2 of our starters are done and we are in win now mode.

For the people bitching about the pick, who is the last, late 1st rounder, that the Braves picked that turned out to be good?
Do picks later than late first like Simmons and Freeman not count?

[thethe]

It was also his "career" year. Aside from 2008 when he had 214 strikeouts to only 47 walks in 219 innings he's been poor in that area with last year being his 2nd best year in that area. Most years he's barely been about 2 strikeouts for every 1 walk. That's not good.

Yeah but now he is moving to the NL behind a very good defense. Why should we expect his numbers to get worse?

[AUTiger7222]

Here's something I haven't talked about with Santana, look at the amount of homeruns he gives up and he's done his pitching of home games in Angel Stadium and Kauffman Stadium, two pitcher friendly parks. He's Tommy Hanson when it comes to tossing up homeruns.

[AUTiger7222]

Yeah but now he is moving to the NL behind a very good defense. Why should we expect his numbers to get worse?

Defense has nothing to do with strikeout-to-walk ratio. And the Angels and Royals aren't exactly bum teams when it comes to defense either.

[stpeteirish]

14.1 mil

Santana has MUCH better career numbers vs the NL, there's no way you can hate this. It's one year, 2 of our starters are done and we are in win now mode.

For the people bitching about the pick, who is the last, late 1st rounder, that the Braves picked that turned out to be good?

The alternative would be a trade, and then you have to give up someone who's done something to be wanted by the other side. So its better to forfeit a draft pick which is not as "proven". And certainly better than doing nothing which is what I figured we'd do.

[gilesfan]

His WHIP the last four years (Much more relevant than what it was prior):

10 - 1.32
11 - 1.22
12 - 1.27
13 - 1.14

Looks to me like a late bloomer.

Ignoring that whip is a terrible stat, some of that is likely attributed to the leagues best defense.

[AUTiger7222]

I think you're selling him short. Last season he k'd 160 and walked 50 in the AL.

It was also only the 2nd time in his career he was over 3 in that area. Here's his ratios.

2005 - 2.11
2006 - 2.01
2007 - 2.17
2008 - 4.55
2009 - 2.28
2010 - 2.32
2011 - 2.47
2012 - 2.18
2013 - 3.16

Which two years are the outlier there?

[thethe]

Here's something I haven't talked about with Santana, look at the amount of homeruns he gives up and he's done his pitching of home games in Angel Stadium and Kauffman Stadium, two pitcher friendly parks. He's Tommy Hanson when it comes to tossing up homeruns.

Park factors for 2013:

KC - 6th
LA - 19th
ATL - 21st

[AUTiger7222]

Ignoring that whip is a terrible stat, some of that is likely attributed to the leagues best defense.

WHIP is a terrible stat? So knowing how many base runners per inning a pitcher gives up is a bad thing?

[thethe]

Ignoring that whip is a terrible stat, some of that is likely attributed to the leagues best defense.

Sure, but his walk rate dropped as well. He seems to be learning how to command his pitches more.

[AUTiger7222]

Park factors for 2013:

KC - 6th
LA - 19th
ATL - 21st

I have no idea how park factors work.

[Millwood1Hitter]

I just wish Medlen was 100%. I bet this deal costs us the chance to sign Heyward long-term.

[COGPK]

Sure are a lot of negative people here. I call them "yeah, buts." We could get Kershaw and people would be posting "yeah, but..........."

Here's what I believe. The Braves are better off with Santana than without Santana. He will give us 200+ innings. We need that this year.

[stpeteirish]

This isn't an example of liberty being generous. Our profits would be pretty similar whether we signed Santana or not.

There's a difference between profits and budget. We were reported to have a budget of 100 mill, the Santana deal puts us over that. Profit will be impcted by revenue as well as expenses. If the Santana deal gets us to the postseason when not doing it wouldn't, I see your point. That could make us an extra 14 mill easily. But that's speculation. Spending the extra money is real and I'm glad we did it.

[Tapate50]

I just wish Medlen was 100%. I bet this deal costs us the chance to sign Heyward long-term.

Whoa whoa whoa

[weso1]

I agree with Gfan. No reason to think you aren't going to get 3.5 to 4 era out of him in and a lot of innings. That's nothing to sneeze at.

[Bye Week]

If he can pitch close to the level that he did last year, we are going to be ok. The worry is that he has a history of one good year followed by a bad year. I think he will be well above average for us in the NL and in the Braves enviroment.

[AUTiger7222]

Sure are a lot of negative people here. I call them "yeah, buts." We could get Kershaw and people would be posting "yeah, but..........."

Here's what I believe. The Braves are better off with Santana than without Santana. He will give us 200+ innings. We need that this year.

200 innings at a 4.50 FIP is good? Okie dokie smokie. I'm done, this just ruins my morning. I'm going back to bed, screw this.

[zitothebrave]

Do picks later than late first like Simmons and Freeman not count?

We still have a pick in the first, just on the sandwich side. And it's the MLB draft, not the NFL draft. Your first and second round picks aren't virtual locks to be starters.

Unless like thewupk said, we have a handshake not to offer Santana arby, I'm fine with this deal. Especially with Beachy just exiting. Hopefully he or Medlen are just temporarily sidelined but this was basically a necessary move.

My guess for the Braves since Minor is only supposed to miss 2 weeks, we go with a loaded pen and a rotation of Julio, Wood, Garcia, and Hale. either we need someone to go on 3 days against the Nats on the 6th or my idea of bullpen game. Those are usually fun. Then if Minor can't go the following week against the Nationals then we bring up someone to make a start, but here's hoping he'll be good to go even if it's a bumpy ride.

[thethe]

I have no idea how park factors work.

Park Factor compares the rate of stats at home vs. the rate of stats on the road. A rate higher than 1.000 favors the hitter. Below 1.000 favors the pitcher. Teams with home games in multiple stadiums list aggregate Park Factors.

[Heyward]

Not a fan since it's just 1-year, bad move.

[Tapate50]

Anyone else thinks this means TJ is inevitable for Meds? :Sad:

[gilesfan]

WHIP is a terrible stat? So knowing how many base runners per inning a pitcher gives up is a bad thing?

Does it account for types of hits. If he had a whip of 1 but every hit was a homer, would that be good? What if his whip was 1.5, but all singles? Does it take into account how many strikeouts he got?

A major component of whip is hits allowed which is also largely defense related.

[AUTiger7222]

Does it account for types of hits. If he had a whip of 1 but every hit was a homer, would that be good? What if his whip was 1.5, but all singles? Does it take into account how many strikeouts he got?

A major component of whip is hits allowed which is also largely defense related.

Who cares what type of hits they are? All hits are BAD the last time I checked. Your goal as a pitcher is to get every hitter out.

[zitothebrave]

200 innings at a 4.50 FIP is good? Okie dokie smokie. I'm done, this just ruins my morning. I'm going back to bed, screw this.

Again (I believe we had this argument before) , you have to remember that Santana is a tweener pitching about as much time in a more offensive environment as this more pitching friendly environment. Santana's been an average to above average most seasons starter in the rate stats and is about as durable of a starter as there is in baseball. If he comes here and plays like he did last year for KC we have 3 fWAR pitcher. It's not a fantastic value at 14M but right about market. If he improves on a few things (mainly his HR rate) that would go up.

[thethe]

Who cares what type of hits they are? All hits are BAD the last time I checked. Your goal as a pitcher is to get every hitter out.

What is worse...Giving up a HR or a single? They account the same way in WHIP.

[weso1]

Defense has nothing to do with strikeout-to-walk ratio. And the Angels and Royals aren't exactly bum teams when it comes to defense either.

Not having to face a DH does effect it though. Consider that and you're probably close to a 3:1 K/BB ratio.

[AUTiger7222]

Again (I believe we had this argument before) , you have to remember that Santana is a tweener pitching about as much time in a more offensive environment as this more pitching friendly environment. Santana's been an average to above average most seasons starter in the rate stats and is about as durable of a starter as there is in baseball. If he comes here and plays like he did last year for KC we have 3 fWAR pitcher. It's not a fantastic value at 14M but right about market. If he improves on a few things (mainly his HR rate) that would go up.

Why should we believe he's capable of pitching like he did last year when that year was such an outlier for him? That's my issue. There's a reason nobody gave him a big multi-year deal and it had nothing to do with that draft pick attached to him and everything to do with his history as a pitcher. There's a great chance he turns back into the pumpkin he's been in his career.

[zitothebrave]

Does it account for types of hits. If he had a whip of 1 but every hit was a homer, would that be good? What if his whip was 1.5, but all singles? Does it take into account how many strikeouts he got?

A major component of whip is hits allowed which is also largely defense related.

This, WHIP is not a terrible stat to quickly look at to see if someone's been a bit lucky stranding runners, but in 2014 we have way better stats than WHIP.

[gilesfan]

WHIP is a terrible stat? So knowing how many base runners per inning a pitcher gives up is a bad thing?


Who cares what type of hits they are? All hits are BAD the last time I checked. Your goal as a pitcher is to get every hitter out.

I cant have a logical discussion with someone that asks "who cares what types of hits he gives up?"

[thethe]

Not having to face a DH does effect it though. Consider that and you're probably close to a 3:1 K/BB ratio.

This is such a fundamental concept that I can't understand how it is being ignored by some.

[zitothebrave]

Why should we believe he's capable of pitching like he did last year when that year was such an outlier for him? That's my issue. There's a reason nobody gave him a big multi-year deal and it had nothing to do with that draft pick attached to him and everything to do with his history as a pitcher. There's a great chance he turns back into the pumpkin he's been in his career.

Last year wasn't an outlier. It wasn't even his best or second best year in fWAR.

Santana in 06 posted a 3.3 fWAR in 08 a 6.0 fWAR. Switch to rWAR and last year was his 5th best season, or the worst of his non-bad season. With 08, 10, 11, and 06 beating last year.

As long as Santana doesn't have a bad year like 12, 09, or 07 we're going to get out moneys worth of a guy who'll be very solid. If he has a bad year we wasted our money. But that can happen with any signed or traded for player (see McLouth, Nate)

[zitothebrave]

What is worse...Giving up a HR or a single? They account the same way in WHIP.

Wihch is the problem with WHIP. WHIP should be thrown out the door for wOBA. WHIP was popular in the pre-OPS era, then was pretty promptly replaced by OPS as the glance rate stat, which was then replaced by the slashes.

[Heyward]

I just wish Medlen was 100%. I bet this deal costs us the chance to sign Heyward long-term.

I still have doubts we'll sign Heyward but this is clear we have more money than people think.

This has no effect with Heyward.

[zitothebrave]

This is such a fundamental concept that I can't understand how it is being ignored by some.

That is certainly gonna play a part going from a major league hitter (OPS of .726 for the AL last season on average) to NL pitchers (OPS of .341 in the NL last season) is going to change the aspect of the game. Pitching in the NL is a different beast and some guys struggle with it because it's not the same as the AL and Santana may be that type, but some thrive in it like Cliff Lee, Lee was great in the AL too but he really thrives in the NL. Sabathia I think is the biggest waste in the AL of a pitcher after watching him play some for the Brewers. Hopefully santana takes to the NL like a fish to water and has a year like his 08 where he struck out around 9 and walked around 2 with his most normal HR rate

[Bj1133]

I like the move - not sure how you can't. I've yet to see a reason why this is a bad move.

[AUTiger7222]

I cant have a logical discussion with someone that asks "who cares what types of hits he gives up?"

So you can't have a logical discussion with someone who thinks giving up hits is a bad thing regardless of which type of hits it is? Wow!

[AUTiger7222]

Last year wasn't an outlier. It wasn't even his best or second best year in fWAR.

Santana in 06 posted a 3.3 fWAR in 08 a 6.0 fWAR. Switch to rWAR and last year was his 5th best season, or the worst of his non-bad season. With 08, 10, 11, and 06 beating last year.

As long as Santana doesn't have a bad year like 12, 09, or 07 we're going to get out moneys worth of a guy who'll be very solid. If he has a bad year we wasted our money. But that can happen with any signed or traded for player (see McLouth, Nate)

I wasn't talking about fWAR. I was talking about strikeout-to-walk ratio.

[AUTiger7222]

What is worse...Giving up a HR or a single? They account the same way in WHIP.

Of course giving up a homerun is worse than a single but they're both BAD. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

[AUTiger7222]

Ok, I'm done bitching now. It is what it is. All I can do is cross my fingers and hope for a FIP of around 4.

[bravebonebook]

I went to sleep last night with 3/5 of the rotation injured. I wake up to see that they've signed the best pitcher still available to fill in some of that damage. We still get a 1st rd sandwich pick. We still have ALL of our players to plug in or use as trade chips later if necessary. Liberty finally spent money to fix a problem. How is this a bad thing?

The regular season starts in two weeks. BEST case scenario other teams aren't going to give the Braves a free pass or do-over on these games while they just "wait" for Medlen, Beachy, Minor and Floyd to get well enough to pitch! The team needed another starter NOW not later. And Santana not only gives you that good, veteran starter but could even anchor the staff with a really good year! You don't pay pennies to fix your roof after a tornado; you pay for the best you can and hope for the best as you move on.

[thethe]

Of course giving up a homerun is worse than a single but they're both BAD. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

Sure, nobody wants the pitcher to give up anything but there are situations when walking a guy is a smart move or when a bleeder gets through. Its just not the best stat to use. He had a good year last year and is moving to a pitchers park in the NL behind a very good defense.

[AUTiger7222]

Sure, nobody wants the pitcher to give up anything but there are situations when walking a guy is a smart move or when a bleeder gets through. Its just not the best stat to use. He had a good year last year and is moving to a pitchers park in the NL behind a very good defense.

The Braves don't have a very good defense. They have Simmons and Heyward who are unbelievable, B.J. who's very good and then a bunch of average to below average guys.

[Diesel]

Of course giving up a homerun is worse than a single but they're both BAD. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

Dude, you're acting as if this is your money the Braves just spent or that it will hinder us in the future. It's a one year deal. We are better off having another legitimate option. You do realize that Teheran and Wood are the only quality pitchers we have healthy at this point? You do realize just because we have had a rash of injuries here in Spring Training that it doesn't preclude more injuries during the season? We had to do this.

[NYCBrave]

I just wish Medlen was 100%. I bet this deal costs us the chance to sign Heyward long-term.

Why would you say that? This is only a 1 year deal. A 4 year deal on Santana and I'd agree, but I don't think this affects Heyward in any way.

[nsacpi]

I am very happy they only did a one year deal. No reason to strap us for 4 or 5 years with all the young pitching we have. I agree that his numbers will improve in the NL. Almost always does. I'm sure that David Hale is discouraged by the pick up but is encouraged it's only a 1 year deal.

Hale will get some starts early in the season. Looks like Santana and Minor won't be ready until around mid-April. Beachy might start the season on the DL as well.

I'm ok with the Santana deal. There is a slightly better than 50% chance he pitches well enough to merit a qualifying offer, in which case we will recoup the lost draft pick. I think we would have been able to get by with our current group of pitchers if one of Medlen or Beachy was healthy. But neither are. We could have waited and tried to trade for pitching later, but I suspect the cost in the form of prospects would have exceeded the value of the draft pick we are giving up.

The other interesting aspect of this is the approval of a contract that takes the team well past projected payroll. What does this say about any remaining flexibility to make a mid-season move?

[PurpleBrave]

How can you dislike this deal? Come on. Quit complaining to complain.

What would you have the Braves do? Roll out Garcia & Hale? Trade prospects, which would equate to a 1st rounder, for another player?

If the Braves sat on their hands, then they'd have to make some upgrades to the pen at some point because the rotation we had isn't logging big innings. This is a great move for both the Braves & Santana who will almost certainly see his numbers improve. FPIP, FIP Flop Fwiw who cares, he was in the AL. For Santana, he moves to the NL east he'll post better numbers while he's on a 1 year prove it contract. Win Win for both Santana & the Braves

[PurpleBrave]

Blue Jays skipper John Gibbons "seemed more subdued than usual" during his media session Wednesday and "hinted" that the Blue Jays "had made plans based on signing Ervin [Santana]," reports Toronto radio broadcaster Mike Wilner.
With the Nos. 4-5 spots in the rotation projected to be occupied by question marks -- J.A. Happ and Drew Hutchison -- and the No. 3 spot manned by a pitcher coming off a poor and injury-plagued season (Brandon Morrow), most analysts predicted Toronto would step up and land Santana. Apparently the Blue Jays' miffed manager did too. Santana signed a one-year, $14.1 million contract with Atlanta on Wednesday. It's possible that Toronto GM Alex Anthopoulos got too cute here.



Braves GM Frank Wren said Ervin Santana will throw a bullpen session and live batting practice before making his first exhibition start.
The Braves will ease him into things and expect Santana to join the rotation in mid-April. Atlanta swooped in and signed Santana to a one-year, $14.1 million contract (his initial asking price was reportedly in the $100 million range) on Wednesday morning to help patch up a rotation that is dealing with injuries to Kris Medlen (forearm) and Brandon Beachy (elbow). Santana, 31, posted a 3.24 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, and 161/51 K/BB ratio in 211 innings last season for the Royals.

[NinersSBChamps]

I am happy. This was a must sign for the Braves. For all the talk of the Braves are so close to getting there, this was an obvious move. The franchise sees an opportunity to win it all and they are going for it. What is not to like about your team trying to put all the pieces together to win.

Now I am not saying Santana puts us over the top, but the season outlook is better than it was after Beachy and Medlen went down. Anyone who doesn't realize this probably should root for the Marlins.

[NinersSBChamps]

Giving up 3 singles and then a home run is by far worse by the way.

[jpx7]

I don't care what the statistics say, I've seen him pitch enough throughout the years to know that the guy is not a good pitcher, mediocre at best, even pitching in the confines if Chicago.

The guy is all smoke and mirrors ala Russ Ortiz.

I've seen him pitch a decent number of times at US Cellular, living in Chicago, and I disagree with your assessment—as would, I think, most White Sox fans.

Now, whether he can successfully recover his former performance-levels following surgery is another matter entirely.

[PurpleBrave]

Maybe this move indicates their about to take big Dan's salary off the books :rock:

[Tapate50]

Sounds like some MAJOR sour grapes coming from Toronto...



Toronto general manager Alex Anthopoulos said Ervin Santana didn't want to pitch in the American League.

"We're in the American League," Anthopoulos said during an appearance on Sportsnet 590 radio in Toronto. "Guys that don't want to be in the American League, there's nothing we can do." A.A. insisted that the right-hander's decision "was not money, was not years." We find this line of reasoning rather difficult to accept, as Santana has never actually pitched in the N.L., having spent the entirety of his nine-year career between the Angels and Royals. It seems that Anthopoulos is annoyed that Santana, choosing between equal offers, preferred the NL East instead of the AL East, an obvious choice for a hurler looking to rebuild his market value in 2014. We'd suggest to Anthopoulos that if he'd been more aggressive in February -- before Atlanta's rotation became ravaged by injury -- Santana would be in Toronto's Opening Day rotation.

[jpx7]

I just wish Medlen was 100%. I bet this deal costs us the chance to sign Heyward long-term.

How's that?

[Hawk]

I predicted the dollars entirely wrong ... a little surprised the Braves were willing to go as high as they did. Nevertheless, as others have iterated, it's hard not to like this deal -- all things considered.

[Runnin]

We were really lucky this guy was available. Now if we can just keep his arm from falling off.

[gilesfan]

So you can't have a logical discussion with someone who thinks giving up hits is a bad thing regardless of which type of hits it is? Wow!

This is irrelevant. A pitcher could give up 3 singles an inning ad not give up a run. Ground ball pitchers, ftw

[AUTiger7222]

This is irrelevant. A pitcher could give up 3 singles an inning ad not give up a run. Ground ball pitchers, ftw

Jorge Sosa?

[Heyward]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m

How quickly did Santana deal come together for #Braves? He flew from Arizona to Florida yesterday and took his physical last night.

[benchguy]

negative people that is their life, if they can't be negative why do they have..



Sure are a lot of negative people here. I call them "yeah, buts." We could get Kershaw and people would be posting "yeah, but..........."

Here's what I believe. The Braves are better off with Santana than without Santana. He will give us 200+ innings. We need that this year.

[Runnin]

Maybe Santana will be a good mentor for Teheran. Hopefully they'll develop some healthy competition.

[tululush]

We weren't messing around. Also I think he really wanted to pitch in the NL/be a Brave.


Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m

How quickly did Santana deal come together for #Braves? He flew from Arizona to Florida yesterday and took his physical last night.

[TDlxANDER]

I love that the decision was made by the FO that this team can compete now and let's make this happen.

I know that all things aren't equal as far as stats go....but this kid is taking Medlen's spot in the rotation basically. I'd be interested to see how the stats line up medlen vs Santana. If the team simply holds it's ground by making this deal, I like it.

The thing that I wonder is....how will this effect the team at the deadline. Most of the talk was that there was money left for potentially a big deal in July. I'd assume that this would have an effect on that.

[Hawk]

One potentially looming consequence of this deal: The Braves have clearly gone over budget (perhaps significantly ... nobody seems to know what the team is working with anymore) ... I doubt that this leaves wiggle room to take on much salary, if any, around the trade deadline.

[Millwood1Hitter]

I love that the decision was made by the FO that this team can compete now and let's make this happen.

Would have been much nicer to make that decesion at the beginning of the offseason instead of a knee jerk reaction after one of our top pitchers gets hurt.

[Millwood1Hitter]

One potentially looming consequence of this deal: The Braves have clearly gone over budget (perhaps significantly ... nobody seems to know what the team is working with anymore) ... I doubt that this leaves wiggle room to take on much salary, if any, around the trade deadline.

Yeah but remember, we can get players at the trade deadline for 25-50% of their value.

[thethe]

I don't think we can answer the question anymore as to how much ownership is willing to spend. This is a new time for Brave fans. So damn exciting. I want Heyward resigned!

[Dalyn]

A few negative people around here. Wow. What a shift.

I love the move.

[Enscheff]

I am extremely conflicted about this signing.

It is awesome to see Wren is able to extend the budget when required. Santana undoubtedly makes the rotation better, and would have made it better even if none of the injuries had happened. If Beachy and Floyd end up being healthy towards the middle of the year the Braves are suddenly looking at a VERY strong rotation of Teheran/Minor/Santana/Beachy/Floyd, with Wood coming out of the pen.

However, it is a bit worrisome to give up the 26th pick for only 1 year of Santana. It would have been nice to have him here longer with options or a longer deal. We can probably also assume there is now zero money to add to the roster at the trade deadline. That means no fix for 2B, CF or 3B if any of those guys falter (and I'm confident one of them most certainly will).

[Teheran_49]

Honestly what were the Braves to do? Run Hale or Garcia out there every 5th day? These deals that veteran starters are getting are crazy but that's the way of the game right now. He's got good stuff and hopefully he is just maturing as a pitcher and we get a great year out of him. Unfortunately, this move had to be made or Frank Wren wouldn't be trying to win. I think it is a shocker that we've spent the money like this so recently as I haven't seen the Braves do this in quite sometime.

[thethe]

Why should we assume that at this point? Braves could end up spending more money.

Also, its very likely that Santana will net a first round pick for the Braves next year.

[jpx7]

From MLBTR (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/kris-medlen-believed-to-have-ligament-damage.html):


Medlen told reporters, including MLB.com's Mark Bowman, that he has spent the past two days preparing himself for a second Tommy John surgery. [...] O'Brien relays that Medlen was "angry and in denial" after injuring his arm on Sunday; he threw two more pitches before exiting the game.

Poor guy.

[yeezus]

Would have been much nicer to make that decesion at the beginning of the offseason instead of a knee jerk reaction after one of our top pitchers gets hurt.

Well, we didn't need Santana before Medlen and Beachy were hurt.

[Krovahn]

I wish we didn't have to do this, and could have saved the money for the trade deadline... but, it had to be done.

I just feel bad for Meds.

If Beachy can get ready for the start of the year, with Minor and Floyd not far behind... we should still be alright now.

Teheran
Santana
Garcia
Wood
Beachy

Then have Minor and Floyd working to get back. Garcia to the pen as the long man and Wood out there to be a shut down lefty, to help limit his innings and possibly have him as a starter in August/September.

[The Chosen One]

From MLBTR (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/kris-medlen-believed-to-have-ligament-damage.html):



Poor guy.

Damn. Now who's going to throw water at people?

[Millwood1Hitter]

So is Wren saying that we signed the best starting pitcher that was on the FA market this year? Or the best available option in the market now?

"Throughout the winter, we didn't feel like we were going to be in this market. But we felt Ervin was the No. 1 guy in the market. We've always felt if we were going to go out there, we would love to have him."

[thethe]

So is Wren saying that we signed the best starting pitcher that was on the FA market this year? Or the best available option in the market now?

"Throughout the winter, we didn't feel like we were going to be in this market. But we felt Ervin was the No. 1 guy in the market. We've always felt if we were going to go out there, we would love to have him."

#1 guy since the start of hte offseason

[yeezus]

Santana is a VERY solid pitcher. What are people complaining about?
his 2012, 2009, and 2007 seem to be his worst, but we have every reason to believe he will put up solid numbers, like he did last year.
He's playing in the NL and has a good defense behind him.
It's 1 year. We lost our #1.
There's not much to not like about this move, other than losing the pick (which we will probably get back).

[Dalyn]

Santana is a VERY solid pitcher. What are people complaining about?
his 2012, 2009, and 2007 seem to be his worst, but we have every reason to believe he will put up solid numbers, like he did last year.
He's playing in the NL and has a good defense behind him.
It's 1 year. We lost our #1.
There's not much to not like about this move, other than losing the pick (which we will probably get back).

Some people just like to complain all the time.

[Mrs. Meta]

From MLBTR (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/kris-medlen-believed-to-have-ligament-damage.html):



Poor guy.

It's okay, Kris, I feel the same way.

I guess those leverage issues for short righties are for real; can't believe he's having a second TJS so quickly.

Btw, do short lefties do something special to avoid the leverage issue? It seemed like Billy Wagner was always kinda injured, going back to his Astros days.

[Millwood1Hitter]

And then there is this:

Braves and GM Wren not done Rebuilding Pitching Staff?

After the conclusion of Ervin Santana's introductory press conference, Wren stated that he and his staff were not done.
"This is an incredible decision by the organization," Wren said. "This is going to push us well above what we thought our budget would be this year. I'm excited about this decesion, and we are not done by any means on bolstering this pitching staff for the upcoming season and in the future." When asked on what changed with the additional flexibility to take on payroll compared to the beginning of the offseason, Wren said, "There have been many developments that have taken place in the past few months. For one thing the additional revenue that we are figuring from moving to Cobb, second is locking in our young players to long-term deals giving us financial security knowing how much is allocated to those positions, and third ownership has seen the benefit that the Braves have added to their portfolio and how investing in the organization and putting additional resources into it can bring even greater returns on putting a championship caliber team on the field. We have the resources, we are going to get it done, and we are going to field an exciting and competitive young team." When asked about the potential move that he is currently working on, Wren stated, "I can't elaborate, but all I will say, is it is going to change the landscape of our division and all of baseball, and Braves fans are going to be exciting as we will field the best pitching staff in baseball that will rival the days of Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz."

Wonder who he is alluding to?

[PurpleBrave]

Wonder who he is alluding to?

Maybe Horacio is going to suit up again

[thethe]

Holy crap...that sounds like a deal for Cliff Lee!

[Dalyn]

And then there is this:

Braves and GM Wren not done Rebuilding Pitching Staff?

After the conclusion of Ervin Santana's introductory press conference, Wren stated that he and his staff were not done.
"This is an incredible decision by the organization," Wren said. "This is going to push us well above what we thought our budget would be this year. I'm excited about this decesion, and we are not done by any means on bolstering this pitching staff for the upcoming season and in the future." When asked on what changed with the additional flexibility to take on payroll compared to the beginning of the offseason, Wren said, "There have been many developments that have taken place in the past few months. For one thing the additional revenue that we are figuring from moving to Cobb, second is locking in our young players to long-term deals giving us financial security knowing how much is allocated to those positions, and third ownership has seen the benefit that the Braves have added to their portfolio and how investing in the organization and putting additional resources into it can bring even greater returns on putting a championship caliber team on the field. We have the resources, we are going to get it done, and we are going to field an exciting and competitive young team." When asked about the potential move that he is currently working on, Wren stated, "I can't elaborate, but all I will say, is it is going to change the landscape of our division and all of baseball, and Braves fans are going to be exciting as we will field the best pitching staff in baseball that will rival the days of Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz."

Wonder who he is alluding to?

Awesome. I am really glad something forced them to start improving the team for THIS year. Just sucks that it took one of my favorite pitchers getting a horrible injury to do it (and my other favorite hurting).

[Hawk]

@ajcbraves: #Braves CEO Terry McGuirk on going over budget: "We're not in a rebuilding mode. We're in a winning mode. The time is now."
[ http://twitter.com/ajcbraves/status/443780134311841792 ]

[Dalyn]

Holy crap...that sounds like a deal for Cliff Lee!

Or Price.

Either one would be huge (lots of money/Dan Uggla would have to be involved for Lee).

[jpx7]

Wonder who he is alluding to?

Maybe the team decided to just say, "**** it," and earnestly try to acquire David Price?

[The Chosen One]

Attaboy Frankie
:pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:

[Dalyn]

Maybe the team decided to just say, "**** it," and earnestly try to acquire David Price?

I would also like a link to that statement. :icon_biggrin: (before getting all excited)

[thethe]

I'm all for trading our prospects for price as long as we sign him to a long term deal.

[weso1]

And then there is this:

Braves and GM Wren not done Rebuilding Pitching Staff?

After the conclusion of Ervin Santana's introductory press conference, Wren stated that he and his staff were not done.
"This is an incredible decision by the organization," Wren said. "This is going to push us well above what we thought our budget would be this year. I'm excited about this decesion, and we are not done by any means on bolstering this pitching staff for the upcoming season and in the future." When asked on what changed with the additional flexibility to take on payroll compared to the beginning of the offseason, Wren said, "There have been many developments that have taken place in the past few months. For one thing the additional revenue that we are figuring from moving to Cobb, second is locking in our young players to long-term deals giving us financial security knowing how much is allocated to those positions, and third ownership has seen the benefit that the Braves have added to their portfolio and how investing in the organization and putting additional resources into it can bring even greater returns on putting a championship caliber team on the field. We have the resources, we are going to get it done, and we are going to field an exciting and competitive young team." When asked about the potential move that he is currently working on, Wren stated, "I can't elaborate, but all I will say, is it is going to change the landscape of our division and all of baseball, and Braves fans are going to be exciting as we will field the best pitching staff in baseball that will rival the days of Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz."

Wonder who he is alluding to?

What? That quote sounds fake. This implies something huge is imminent. Welp... no work getting done today.

[nsacpi]

I'm all for trading our prospects for price as long as we sign him to a long term deal.

Pass on long-term deals to pitchers.

[The Chosen One]

We're going to get David Price and he'll get an elbow injury requiring Tommy John by July. :Alone:

[BRule]

And then there is this:

Braves and GM Wren not done Rebuilding Pitching Staff?

After the conclusion of Ervin Santana's introductory press conference, Wren stated that he and his staff were not done.
"This is an incredible decision by the organization," Wren said. "This is going to push us well above what we thought our budget would be this year. I'm excited about this decesion, and we are not done by any means on bolstering this pitching staff for the upcoming season and in the future." When asked on what changed with the additional flexibility to take on payroll compared to the beginning of the offseason, Wren said, "There have been many developments that have taken place in the past few months. For one thing the additional revenue that we are figuring from moving to Cobb, second is locking in our young players to long-term deals giving us financial security knowing how much is allocated to those positions, and third ownership has seen the benefit that the Braves have added to their portfolio and how investing in the organization and putting additional resources into it can bring even greater returns on putting a championship caliber team on the field. We have the resources, we are going to get it done, and we are going to field an exciting and competitive young team." When asked about the potential move that he is currently working on, Wren stated, "I can't elaborate, but all I will say, is it is going to change the landscape of our division and all of baseball, and Braves fans are going to be exciting as we will field the best pitching staff in baseball that will rival the days of Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz."

Wonder who he is alluding to?

Pic or it didn't happen

[Mrs. Meta]

What? That quote sounds fake. This implies something huge is imminent. Welp... no work getting done today.

Gimme Hot Nudism (and MikeAdams)!

[rico43]

It was pretty good last year.

You can tell this board is getting popular. We're getting more and contrarians -- which means better give and take. I like that those who quote stats like it, but those who hate, use "he sucks" as their argument.

[Dalyn]

What? That quote sounds fake. This implies something huge is imminent. Welp... no work getting done today.

Yeah. It does. That's why I want a link before getting excited!

[BRule]

Zero mention on twitter, roto, espn, etc of that quote......fake-fake-fake-fake

[yeezus]

Zero mention on twitter, roto, espn, etc of that quote......fake-fake-fake-fake

if so, that is ban-worthy.

[BRule]

if so, that is ban-worthy.

Yes BUT....I don't understand why anyone would believe that in the first place.

[yeezus]

Yes BUT....I don't understand why anyone would believe that in the first place.

Because we're excited and vulnerable.

[weso1]

How dare someone toy with my emotions whilest I peruse the internet.

[thethe]

#Braves McGuirk: "We want to send a message to the guys in this clubhouse and our fans and sponsors, that we expect to win, we want to win."

Its clear that Liberty sees the Braves as a profitable business with untapped market potential. Great sign.

[rico43]

Why should we assume that at this point? Braves could end up spending more money.

Also, its very likely that Santana will net a first round pick for the Braves next year.

EXACTLY. There's a chance that they'll get a better pick than 26 in the deal, and the way player development works, a guy drafted 26th this year still would likely need 2-3 years to reach the bigs. So if Santana is worth a first-rounder next year, then it's more of a deferral than lost of a pick. I hope to God the Braves didn't promise him not to give him a qualifying offer.

Have we gotten a link or confirmation on the Wren quote. I am considering the OP less than totally credible.

[weso1]

Well, I for one still choose to believe the fake quote.

[yeezus]

I legitimately want the guy banned for that.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Actually I was the one that was punked on that one, I got it sent to me via text from a buddy, I was so damn excited I posted it here instantly, but after further review, I can't find the quote anywhere either so I believe it is fake. Can't get him to fess up or give me a link either

[Hawk]

I knew it from the moment I saw decision spelled wrong.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Sorry, I'm as peeved as all of you are, I'm not very happy at the moment with myself or my buddy. Can't believe I fell for it.

But there are some good vibes coming from McCuirk that are legit.

We are entering unchartered territory, and despite the circumstances and its too bad what happened to Medlen, one has to be excited about the last month or so locking in the young talent and spending the money for the future, all the while spending currently and trying to bolster the team.

I like the Santana move, think he is going to have a "HELL" of a year for the Braves, at least I hope so. Always have really liked his stuff when he was with the Angels, hopefully he puts it all together.

[wheresmykayak]

Wow. What a morning.

For anyone who doesn't like this move, consider the following.

Give or take a few on either side, MLB has about 30 pitchers who make it to 200 innings pitched every year. It's really hard to do in this era of baseball. Part of the reason our pitching did so well last year was because we had Mike Minor achieve that feat, and had 2 others (Medlen, Teheran) that came fairly close to it. Obviously Medlen can't do that now, and Minor is questionable. By getting Santana, we at least stand a halfway decent chance of getting at least 400ish quality innings out of the rotation, or maybe even more if Minor comes back strong. It's not outlandish to think that perhaps we might have 3 pitchers flirt with 200 innings again. For a contending team, you cannot expect to go to war with only one or two guys that have proven that they can go the whole season, and win. I really like what I've seen out of Wood, but he's apparently on a limit. And we may have another Beachy that comes out of nowhere. But you can't assume that will happen. At some point, you owe it to your team to solve a problem with a proven commodity, and Santana was the closest to that we were going to get at this point.

As for the WHIP argument, consider a basic example: Two pitchers pitch in seperate games. One gives up a home run, two singles, and gets out of the inning. Another gives up two singles, then a home run. Vastly different outcomes, yet WHIP views their performances to be the same value. It's a fun at a glance stat, but just that.

As for the fake quote:

http://www.famouspictures.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/I_want_to_believe5.jpg

[Hawk]

I legitimately want the guy banned for that.

http://scienceblogs.com/zooillogix/wp-content/blogs.dir/253/files/2012/04/i-7e48e800d9f11a8c884b05749ec2f2c4-Lemming%20II.jpg

[rico43]

Here are Wren's quotes in DOB's story:

“It just worked out that he had not reached an agreement yet,” Wren said, “and so once we had the injuries, we reached out to his agent…. We’re thrilled to have him, and we feel like he really gives us a big shot in the arm as far as the rotation’s concerned.

“In light of what’s happened over the past few days with our pitching staff, we thought it was incumbent on us to do everything we could to strengthen our starting pitching.”

“This is an incredible decision by the organization, because this is going to push us well above what we thought our budget would be this year,” Wren said. “But Mr. McGuirk and John jumped in to say this is important for our team, and made a big commitment.”

“Literally the afternoon that Kris Medlen got hurt, I reached out to Jay Alou by text,” Wren said. “And then we started talking (Tuesday) and trying to see if there was a match. When I reached out originally it was because I knew from media reports that he was down the road with some other clubs who had a big head start on us (in negotiations). So we tried to see if there was still a chance for us to get in the mix.

“I think once we started talking, we realized that Ervin was very interested in us as well, that he thought this was a good opportunity for him, and it was a perfect for us for. We’re fortunate that it all fit at the right time. Another day later, we might not have been able to make it happen.”

“We don’t have any finality on Brandon, or Kris — we don’t know what’s going to happen with either guy, and we’re still hoping for the best,” Wren said. “But just knowing where we were depth-wise, we felt it was really important (to sign Santana)…. Throughout the winter, we didn’t feel like we were going to be in this (starting pitcher) market, but we felt like Ervin was the No. 1 guy in the market. We always felt that he was the guy that, if we were going to go out there (and sign a frontline pitcher), he was the guy that we would love to have.”

[yeezus]

Here are Wren's quotes in DOB's story:

“It just worked out that he had not reached an agreement yet,” Wren said, “and so once we had the injuries, we reached out to his agent…. We’re thrilled to have him, and we feel like he really gives us a big shot in the arm as far as the rotation’s concerned.

“In light of what’s happened over the past few days with our pitching staff, we thought it was incumbent on us to do everything we could to strengthen our starting pitching.”

“This is an incredible decision by the organization, because this is going to push us well above what we thought our budget would be this year,” Wren said. “But Mr. McGuirk and John jumped in to say this is important for our team, and made a big commitment.”

“Literally the afternoon that Kris Medlen got hurt, I reached out to Jay Alou by text,” Wren said. “And then we started talking (Tuesday) and trying to see if there was a match. When I reached out originally it was because I knew from media reports that he was down the road with some other clubs who had a big head start on us (in negotiations). So we tried to see if there was still a chance for us to get in the mix.

“I think once we started talking, we realized that Ervin was very interested in us as well, that he thought this was a good opportunity for him, and it was a perfect for us for. We’re fortunate that it all fit at the right time. Another day later, we might not have been able to make it happen.”

“We don’t have any finality on Brandon, or Kris — we don’t know what’s going to happen with either guy, and we’re still hoping for the best,” Wren said. “But just knowing where we were depth-wise, we felt it was really important (to sign Santana)…. Throughout the winter, we didn’t feel like we were going to be in this (starting pitcher) market, but we felt like Ervin was the No. 1 guy in the market. We always felt that he was the guy that, if we were going to go out there (and sign a frontline pitcher), he was the guy that we would love to have.”

I'm not falling for that one again

[Jay212033]

When asked about the potential move that he is currently working on, Wren stated, "I can't elaborate, but all I will say, is it is going to change the landscape of our division and all of baseball, and Braves fans are going to be exciting as we will field the best pitching staff in baseball that will rival the days of Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz."

Wonder who he is alluding to?


This can't be true! Wren always keeps stuff close to his chest. This is a fake quote I bet!

[Millwood1Hitter]

Again, we should just feel fortunate that a pitcher of this caliber (Santana) was available this late because if he wasn't other teams would have known we were desperate and would have looked to rape our system, or we would have had to stand pat, or worse yet go JS route 2003 and sign a piece of trash like Shane Reynolds which did not and would not improve the rotation at all.

[rico43]

I'm not falling for that one again

Here's the link:

http://atlantabraves.blog.ajc.com/2014/03/12/braves-sign-santana-to-bolster-injury-riddled-rotation/

[rico43]

Again, we should just feel fortunate that a pitcher of this caliber (Santana) was available this late because if he wasn't other teams would have known we were desperate and would have looked to rape our system, or we would have had to stand pat, or worse yet go JS route 2003 and sign a piece of trash like Shane Reynolds which did not and would not improve the rotation at all.

Twice in a morning, you've vented about a pitcher who threw for the Braves in 2003!! Obsess much?

[drewdat]

Here's the link:

http://atlantabraves.blog.ajc.com/2014/03/12/braves-sign-santana-to-bolster-injury-riddled-rotation/

Someone hacked the AJC and inserted fake Wren quotes. Insidious.

[Dalyn]

Someone hacked the AJC and inserted fake Wren quotes. Insidious.

Probably Shane Reynolds.

[PurpleBrave]

Melt down...

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/2386-Braves-to-sign-Santana

[Millwood1Hitter]

Man, reading that Medlen story, brought me to tears.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Melt down...

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/2386-Braves-to-sign-Santana

Why would they? I mean, I like the Santana signing on our end because of our needs and our situation, but the Jays are far from contending and its not like Santana was the final piece that would put them over the top. Better, obviously yes, but they are looking at being a 4th place team no matter what.

[Dalyn]

Man, reading that Medlen story, brought me to tears.

Do you have any fake quotes from Medlen?

[Mrs. Meta]

Do you have any fake quotes from Medlen?

:happy0157:

[gilesfan]

You can tell this board is getting popular. We're getting more and contrarians -- which means better give and take. I like that those who quote stats like it, but those who hate, use "he sucks" as their argument.


Ha. You should have been around for the JD Drew trade

[skillet]

While I understand why the organization felt the need to sign Santana under the circumstances, and am encouraged that Liberty approved of the expenditure which puts us a good bit over budget, I absolutely hate that we had to do this. Firstly, I hate it for Kris. Secondly, we lost our 1st round pick which we desperately needed to replenish a weak farm system (the argument that it's OK to lose this pick because we have a sandwich pick is so illogical and misguided). Having two high picks is twice as good as one, no matter how you slice it. I also think the chances of us offering him a QO next winter to recoup this pick are less than 50-50 as our budget is extremely tight for the 2015 season and we probably won't be able to take the chance he accepts unless he has a monster season and becomes one of the top free agents. We also lost the slot money that goes with that pick, so it isn't like we can now spend that money somewhere else. We also most likely lost all or at least a significant portion of any flexibility we had for a mid-season acquisition.

Understand the move as we have too good a team to let Medlen's injury and Beachy's question marks potentially derail us, but the price we just paid is extremely high.

[nsacpi]

While I understand why the organization felt the need to sign Santana under the circumstances, and am encouraged that Liberty approved of the expenditure which puts us a good bit over budget, I absolutely hate that we had to do this. Firstly, I hate it for Kris. Secondly, we lost our 1st round pick which we desperately needed to replenish a weak farm system (the argument that it's OK to lose this pick because we have a sandwich pick is so illogical and misguided). Having two high picks is twice as good as one, no matter how you slice it. I also think the chances of us offering him a QO next winter to recoup this pick are less than 50-50 as our budget is extremely tight for the 2015 season and we probably won't be able to take the chance he accepts unless he has a monster season and becomes one of the top free agents. We also lost the slot money that goes with that pick, so it isn't like we can now spend that money somewhere else. We also most likely lost all or at least a significant portion of any flexibility we had for a mid-season acquisition.

Understand the move as we have too good a team to let Medlen's injury and Beachy's question marks potentially derail us, but the price we just paid is extremely high.

Yeah, it is a shame we had to do this. But I'm glad we were able to. I'm a bit more optimistic than you that we will be able to recoup the draft pick next year. If Santana has a good year, the front office could be confident he will turn down a qualifying offer. If he accepts the qualifying offer after a good season, he should be a fairly easy to trade asset.