Braves release Freddy Garcia / Sign Aaron Harang

[TXBravesFan]

Kind of surprising. Guess he'll be making pitch for somebody else.

[nsacpi]

Penny pinching after the Santana signing. I think in signing Santana we gave up any flexibility to make a mid-season move, unless it is structured so we don't add to payroll.

[Orphan Black]

Yeah...that's too bad...I know you can't be sentimental, but he was great in game 6. Good luck to him.

[thethe]

That is very interesting. I thought he would be a solid guy to have in the rotation for a month and sell him off to another team. Does the team really like Hale/Schlosser that much?

[nsacpi]

Buchter sent to the minors. Looks like Varvaro, Gearrin and Thomas made the team.

Schlosser to start unless there is an acquisition.

[CyYoung31]

Fredi, dat some cold-blooded **** to say to a neighbor before you cut his ass.

[Dalyn]

Awesome! Props to Wren. :tchop:

[Heyward]

Thats surprising.

I thought he'd make the team.

Guess Hale or someone else will man the 5 spot.

[sturg33]

Woooooooooo!!!!!!!!

I guarantee this was bc of the Ervin Santana signing

[Heyward]

If this is the roster thread.

Then...

Terdo, Constanza, and Butcher all got optioned to Gwinnett.

Minor, Julio, Santana, Wood, Hale as the starting 5?

[nsacpi]

Braves being very cheap in this situation. They save 1M by going with a league min guy rather than Garcia. Keeping my fingers crossed with Schlosser. I'd be surprised if he is ready.

[thethe]

Woooooooooo!!!!!!!!

I guarantee this was bc of the Ervin Santana signing

I think that would be alarming if that were the case.

[CyYoung31]

I think that would be alarming if that were the case.

If it was anyone other than Freddy Garcia, then you might be right.

[Heyward]

Braves reassigned INFs Tommy La Stella and Tyler Greene to minor league camp.
No surprises here. La Stella didn't hit well enough this spring to force the Braves to consider him for an Opening Day roster spot, but he is an exciting talent and should be up at some point this summer. He might even steal starting second base duties from Dan Uggla.

[Heyward]

I disagree with cutting Garcia.

With our pitching depth limited, i thought he'd make it, bad move imo.

[mossy]

I don't like this move, but perhaps the Braves are THAT confident in the youngsters.

Or, it's about penny pinching due to Santana.

Apparently some "vets" in the clubhouse aren't pleased.

[Tapate50]

Braves being very cheap in this situation. They save 1M by going with a league min guy rather than Garcia. Keeping my fingers crossed with Schlosser. I'd be surprised if he is ready.

He has pitched well so far. For the limited time we'd need him, I think he will do fine.

[nsacpi]

They save $1M. Schlosser is probably not ready. But I don't have much confidence in Garcia either. I think the move that should have been made is to have stretched out Thomas rather than Schlosser.

[nsacpi]

He has pitched well so far. For the limited time we'd need him, I think he will do fine.

Schlosser is going to be in the rotation pretty much all of April, until one of Floyd or Minor returns. He'll make about five starts.

[Enscheff]

The Braves just got stung majorly by starting pitching injuries, and they think it's OK to cut a MLB caliber starting pitcher loose to save $1M? Why not just stash him in the BP in case the injury bug jumps up and bites the team one last time?

This is a move I just can't understand...

[thethe]

The Braves just got stung majorly by starting pitching injuries, and they think it's OK to cut a MLB caliber starting pitcher loose to save $1M? Why not just stash him in the BP in case the injury bug jumps up and bites the team one last time?

This is a move I just can't understand...

Agreed 100%.

[Millwood1Hitter]

DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB

[The Chosen One]

Freddy said he would ask for his release if he was asked to go to bullpen. He says he wanted to start.

I think it's plausible since there are no teams will bite on him most likely, we can sign him again if we get the injury bug once more.

[Orphan Black]

I don't think we should jump to conclusions either...it could be that they told him they could keep him if he would go to the bullpen, and maybe he asked to be released because he preferred to start. To be perfectly honest he should be in someone's starting rotation.

[jpx7]

I'm legitimately surprised. I had almost no faith in Garcia performing at an acceptable level, but it's surprising nonetheless.

[Enscheff]

Freddy said he would ask for his release if he was asked to go to bullpen. He says he wanted to start.

I think it's plausible since there are no teams will bite on him most likely, we can sign him again if we get the injury bug once more.

Then his attitude has changed in the last 24 hours when he was quoted by Bowman as saying:

"I want to help them any way I can. If they need me in the bullpen, I'll be in the bullpen."

[The Chosen One]

Then his attitude has changed in the last 24 hours when he was quoted by Bowman as saying:

"I want to help them any way I can. If they need me in the bullpen, I'll be in the bullpen."

Ah. I just remember what he said going into Spring Training. He was fighting for a spot on the rotation, not otherwise.

[bravesnumberone]

Yea, really don't understand this one right now. Maybe in May....

[jpx7]

I think the move that should have been made is to have stretched out Thomas rather than Schlosser.

It is strange to me that the Braves' brass are so high on Schlosser. It might have made more sense if Thomas were heading to AAA to join the Gwinnett rotation, but I guess they figure he'll be more valuable for the time being as another reliable lefty reliever—at the very least until Venters can rejoin the team. I also wonder if a better spring from Buchter might have swung things in favor of Thomas being stretched out for the Atlanta rotation over Schlosser.

[JohnAdcox]

Ah. I just remember what he said going into Spring Training. He was fighting for a spot on the rotation, not otherwise.

Actually, he said he wouldn't pitch in the minors; not the bullpen. He always seemed fine with that.

Which makes this all the more bewildering. Unless the Braves are 100% sure that Minor and Santana are on course, or unless there is some other deal looming that we don't know about. I really hope it's the latter, because while I have faith in Minor, Santana and Floyd, I am a huge fan of depth. Thank heaven for that easy opening schedule.

[nsacpi]

It is strange to me that the Braves' brass are so high on Schlosser. It might have made more sense if Thomas were heading to AAA to join the Gwinnett rotation, but I guess they figure he'll be more valuable for the time being as another reliable lefty reliever—at the very least until Venters can rejoin the team. I also wonder if a better spring from Buchter might have swung things in favor of Thomas being stretched out for the Atlanta rotation over Schlosser.

They made the decision regarding Schlosser based upon one or two spring training appearances.

[The Chosen One]

Maybe a back room deal. Probably told Freddy if no other team will take him as a starter, he can get signed back or minimum plus incentives. IDK

I'm one of the few who liked Freddy and thought he could be decent. I watched him pitch yesterday and I said holy cow that looks like Sugar Shane.

[50PoundHead]

The major league on-field staff and the brass watch these guys daily. They don't always make the right decisions, but they make the right decision more often than not and I trust them here.

Looks like Pastornicky is well enough to go North.

[The Chosen One]

The major league on-field staff and the brass watch these guys daily. They don't always make the right decisions, but they make the right decision more often than not and I trust them here.

Looks like Pastornicky is well enough to go North.

To Gwinnett

[tvsportscaster]

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves · 8m
There's a lefty throwing in #Braves 'pen now with no name on jersey. Going out to see. Wren watching him.

[tvsportscaster]

To Gwinnett

With Greene sent out earlier, Pastornicky is now a lock to make the team. Joey T and Constanza were also sent out

[NYCBrave]

Looks like penny pinching to me. They probably didn't think Garcia would last long enough in the rotation (guys coming back from injury) to warrant paying him the 1M.

[tvsportscaster]

Looks like penny pinching to me. They probably didn't think Garcia would last long enough in the rotation (guys coming back from injury) to warrant paying him the 1M.

Whatever it is, they are taking a huge risk going with so much inexperience. David Hale and Gus Schlosser, and Alex Wood don't have a lot of experience. There has to be another move coming. It was just two weeks ago, that Fredi was saying how thankful he was they re-signed Garcia and now the players are pissed about this release, not a good thing.

[thethe]

Just when I was starting to get excited that this team was going to be able to spend big money in the future something like this happens...

[TXBravesFan]

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves · 8m
There's a lefty throwing in #Braves 'pen now with no name on jersey. Going out to see. Wren watching him.

Maybe there was more to that Horacio Ramirez hire.

...joking. I hope.

[keithlaw]

lol we cut a guy with an 85 mph fastball and suddenly Liberty is public enemy #1 again. Our scouts probably told Wren that everyone in our AAA rotation is a better option than Garcia

[keithlaw]

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves · 8m
There's a lefty throwing in #Braves 'pen now with no name on jersey. Going out to see. Wren watching him.

erik bedard perhaps?

[jpx7]

lol we cut a guy with an 85 mph fastball and suddenly Liberty is public enemy #1 again. Our scouts probably told Wren that everyone in our AAA rotation is a better option than Garcia

Yea, I'm sure his price-tag hurt him in terms of the Braves' roster calculus, but I think the decision was based as much on performance potential as it was on fiduciary constraints—a likelihood reflected in O'Brien's note on the dismissal (http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/baseball/the-chief-is-gone-braves-release-freddy-garcia/nfKXx/):


But the Braves thought Garcia, 37, had lost too much on his fastball and other pitches to justify spending $1.25 million

There's a salient distinction between being able to afford something and thinking something is worth something.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Cliff Lee is coming to Atlanta!

[clvclv]

Buchter sent to the minors. Looks like Varvaro, Gearrin and Thomas made the team.

Schlosser to start unless there is an acquisition.


:Wall: :facepalm: :Wall: :facepalm: :Wall: :facepalm: :Wall:

[PurpleBrave]

Jeez, you'd think John Smoltz was just cut

[stpeteirish]

Woooooooooo!!!!!!!!

I guarantee this was bc of the Ervin Santana signing

and Floyd's ahead of schedule. 1.25 mill too much to pay for 2-3 starts.

[stpeteirish]

I don't get this, could Schlosser have been that impressive? He was the top guy on Mississippi's staff last year.

[TURBO]

Mark Bowman ‏@mlbbowman 4m

Wren's explanation for releasing Garcia didn't make much sense. But there's no doubt he's hoping to acquire a better option this week

[keithlaw]

I don't get this, could Schlosser have been that impressive? He was the top guy on Mississippi's staff last year.

He didn't need to be impressive at all. Just less unimpressive than Garcia

[jpx7]

Mark Bowman ‏@mlbbowman 4m

Wren's explanation for releasing Garcia didn't make much sense. But there's no doubt he's hoping to acquire a better option this week

Does Bowman elaborate?

From what I've read, Wren et al simply did not expect Garcia to perform at a level that would justify a $1.25-million guarantee. If that's gist of Wren's "explanation" then it makes a lot of sense to me.

[Krovahn]

The lefty was probably HoRam. He is back as a coach. Ha ha.

[Tapate50]

The lefty was probably HoRam. He is back as a coach. Ha ha.

DOB did comment that whoever he went to go see was unimpressive and not mentionworthy. HoRam fits that bill.

[50PoundHead]

:Wall: :facepalm: :Wall: :facepalm: :Wall: :facepalm: :Wall:

And yet Varvaro's limited stat line is better than Gearrin's over the past three seasons. I don't cotton much to either Varvaro or Gearrin, but this impression that Gearrin is somehow the second coming of Dan Quissenberry is a bit ridiculous.

I agree with purplebrave. My only caveat is that a win in April equals a win in August, so if Garcia's experience could net a couple of wins early, they would count in the standings. However, the season goes well beyond April and, while one can't prove the negative, there's nothing that leads me to believe he'd get better as the season wears on and Hale, Schlosser, or someone else might.

I think Wren is going to watch the waiver wire closely, especially for a bullpen arm or two. But this rending of clothing and gnashing of teeth over Garcia is kind of amusing.

[Dalyn]

lol we cut a guy with an 85 mph fastball and suddenly Liberty is public enemy #1 again. Our scouts probably told Wren that everyone in our AAA rotation is a better option than Garcia

Exactly. Don't see the problem with this one.

[jpx7]

I don't get this, could Schlosser have been that impressive? He was the top guy on Mississippi's staff last year.

Now the Braves will have a month or so to evaluate first-hand both Hale's and Schlosser's abilities to start at the major-league level, and even longer to evaluate whichever one they leave in the rotation as fifth-starter until Floyd is ready.

While there is some risk over the first several weeks of the season, with respect to 2014 regular-season record—and I think such risk is probably overstated, since the alternative of giving Garcia starts also carried ample risk—this key evaluation period could be huge in planning for the 2015 rotation and beyond (when the likely departures of Santana and Floyd, and the uncertainty respective to the recoveries and contract-retention of Medlen and Beachy, will present Wren with a lot of difficult decisions). Meanwhile, if either Hale or Schlosser—or both—pitches very well, suddenly the Braves have more attractive pieces for mid-season tweaks; and whether they do pitch well or they don't, each pitcher will have gained experience in case subsequent injuries force the Braves to call upon them again, either this year or next.

All for the low, low price of not paying Freddy Garcia a guaranteed $1.25-million.

Really, in my mind, the more angles from which you view Garcia's release, the more sense it makes.

[Dalyn]

Now the Braves will have a month or so to evaluate first-hand both Hale's and Schlosser's abilities to start at the major-league level, and even longer to evaluate whichever one they leave in the rotation as fifth-starter until Floyd is ready.

While there is some risk over the first several weeks of the season, with respect to 2014 regular-season record—and I think such risk is probably overstated, since the alternative of giving Garcia starts also carried ample risk—this key evaluation period could be huge in planning for the 2015 rotation and beyond (when the likely departures of Santana and Floyd, and the uncertainty respective to the recoveries and contract-retention of Medlen and Beachy, will present Wren with a lot of difficult decisions). Meanwhile, if either Hale or Schlosser—or both—pitches very well, suddenly the Braves have more attractive pieces for mid-season tweaks; and whether they do pitch well or they don't, each pitcher will have gained experience in case subsequent injuries force the Braves to call upon them again, either this year or next.

All for the low, low price of not paying Freddy Garcia a guaranteed $1.25-million.

Really, in my mind, the more angles from which you view Garcia's release, the more sense it makes.

Signing him is what didn't make sense.

[gilesfan]

Its going to be tough to be in the playoff hunt if the rotation is Teheran, Wood, Santana, Hale, Schlosser for very long.

[Dalyn]

Its going to be tough to be in the playoff hunt if the rotation is Teheran, Wood, Santana, Hale, Schlosser for very long.

Agreed. But no different than if you swapped Garcia for Schlosser (just more expensive).

[Tapate50]

Bowman says we are eyeing Harang

[Hawk]

I would be shocked if Schlosser starts the season in the rotation.

Obviously, the Braves have something else percolating.

[nsacpi]

Looking at the schedule, it looks like Hale and Schlosser/whoever will make a total of 9 starts in April.

[The Chosen One]

Interesting that we did bring back Horacio on the coaching staff. He has no ties to Fredi (maybe Richmond Braves?), Wren, or anyone else. Only Eddie Perez.

[nsacpi]

Bowman says we are eyeing Harang

He and Garcia are about the same imo.

[50PoundHead]

Bowman says we are eyeing Harang

Thanks for that. He was another option I thought would have made more sense than Garcia. I don't want to go off on a harangue, but I believe while Harang (see what I did there) probably doesn't have a lot left in his tank, he's likely a better option than Garcia.

[Dalyn]

Thanks for that. He was another option I thought would have made more sense than Garcia. I don't want to go off on a harangue, but I believe while Harang (see what I did there) probably doesn't have a lot left in his tank, he's likely a better option than Garcia.

And cheaper, I am sure. Also has had a decent spring.

[jpx7]

Agreed. But no different than if you swapped Garcia for Schlosser (just more expensive).

And, hell: at least maybe one of Hale or Schlosser (if not both) positively surprises. While there might have been less of a chance that Garcia would catastrophically implode, there was also much less of a chance he'd improve, develop, or otherwise exceed expectations.

[Dalyn]

And, hell: at least maybe one of Hale or Schlosser (if not both) positively surprises. While there might have been less of a chance that Garcia would catastrophically implode, there was also much less of a chance he'd unexpectedly exceed expectations.

Yep. Both have youth and potential firmly in their corner. Garcia has one leg out of the ring.

[nsacpi]

Steamer and ZIPS both project a higher ERA for Harang than Garcia this year, almost half a point difference.

[keithlaw]

Yep. Both have youth and potential firmly in their corner. Garcia has one leg out of the ring.

Talent and no experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Experience and no talent

[tvsportscaster]

DOB just reported that the lefty the Braves had in today throwing was Luis Perez just released last week by Toronto. He also said he wasn't very impressive. Another guy coming off TJ surgery.

[Dalyn]

Talent and no experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Experience and no talent

:fredi:

[jpx7]

I personally think the Braves should just stick with Hale and Schlosser for the first few weeks, unless a really clear upgrade becomes available, but: Scott Baker, anyone (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/03/mariners-release-scott-baker.html)?

[thethe]

Braves sign Harang.

[Bdawg2309]

signed harang....

hahahahahhahaha

[thethe]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 3m
Source: Harang signing with #Braves.

[thethe]

Supposedly we are interested in Bedard as well.

[thethe]

Clearly Dalyn is the GM of our team right now.

[thethe]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 10m
Scott Baker, Erik Bedard among emerging options for #Braves. Baker opting out of deal with #Mariners, per @ChrisCotillo.

[jpx7]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 3m
Source: Harang signing with #Braves.

Maybe he's less opposed to pitching in AAA?

[thethe]

Has to be. This screams of insurance for both Minor/Floyd.

[jpx7]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 10m
Scott Baker, Erik Bedard among emerging options for #Braves. Baker opting out of deal with #Mariners, per @ChrisCotillo.

Harang likely is the best option out of that uninspiring collection of arms, with pretty good seasons in 2011 and 2012. Bedard, meanwhile, at least strikes people out. Baker is the worst of the bunch.

[rico43]

They made the decision regarding Schlosser based upon one or two spring training appearances.

That and the fact he has been the organization's Pitcher of the Year each of the last two seasons. Guy has answered every challenge and as a side-armer, he probably won't ever need TJ surgery.

[tvsportscaster]

That and the fact he has been the organization's Pitcher of the Year each of the last two seasons. Guy has answered every challenge and as a side-armer, he probably won't ever need TJ surgery.

Now with the signing of Harang, Schlosser is probably not going to start, but could he be a bullpen option. Also, David Hale has been far from impressive during the spring.

[rico43]

Relieved that they did not sign Bedard. As a former media member, guys like this are like hemmorrhoids.

http://www.examiner.com/article/erik-bedard-the-master-of-the-interview

[thethe]

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves 2m
Harang impressed scouts more this spring than #Braves Garcia, posting 2.00 ERA in 4 games (2 starts) for the Indians, w/ 6K and 2BB in 9 IP

[thethe]

Hmm...so maybe it wasn't about money and that they thought Harang was in line for a decent year?

[jpx7]

Hmm...so maybe it wasn't about money and that they thought Harang was in line for a decent year?

It could very well could be both—though we'll gain a lot of clarity in that regard once contract details are released. Also, as I speculated earlier, maybe he's less rigid when it comes to the whole AAA thing?

[CyYoung31]

Harang? He was terrible last year for Seattle of all teams. Meh.

[TXBravesFan]

Team announced it's a 1-year major league deal, if that was in doubt.

[depley]

That and the fact he has been the organization's Pitcher of the Year each of the last two seasons. Guy has answered every challenge and as a side-armer, he probably won't ever need TJ surgery.

Add to that he is 25, wasn't signed till after his senior college year, at age 25 might be time to find out if he has a future in the ML. He might be battling Hale for that last rotation spot for April if Harang earns a spot for now.

[Dalyn]

I like it (unless it is for a ton of money). Would also like Bedard for depth. Only thing I can figure is that my letter to Fredi (which I cc'd to Wren) had an impact.

[50PoundHead]

Scott Baker was a "Braves type" until his injury. He is not back and may never be, but he was promising early in his career with the Twins, who viewed him as another Radke. He never walked many guys but he walked a bunch this spring. Curious to see where he ends up. He'll be pitching in AAA if he wants.

[Dalyn]

For the record, I included stats and a nice diagram for Wren and let my nephew color some stuff for Fredi.

[Braves1976]

Team announced it's a 1-year major league deal, if that was in doubt.

Ouch, I have never liked Harang and he was terrible the last few years. Garcia is actually better than him, IMO. It is insane to make much of anything of 9 innings pitched in spring training. Garcia was also very popular among Braves players. I never thought I'd be against letting Garcia go, but for Harang I am.

Garcia has also had success vs the Nats (and we face them a lot early on). Oh well...

[Millwood1Hitter]

Harang is absolute GARBAGE. He makes Garcia look like Halladay in his prime. I mean absolute trash. The guy is a no good bum, shouldn't be anywhere near an organization like the Braves. I'm so sick and tired of recycled trash being on the Braves, might as well wake up Shane Reynolds or Albie Lopez. This piece of rubble will be lucky if he wins 1 stinkin game for us. No way Wren should have touched this guy with a 10 foot pole. Can somebody explain to me how we think he can help us?

[Braves1976]

If y'all check Harang's career splits vs the NL East they're scary bad with every team but us hitting over .300 against him. The Miami Marlins sport a .332 average and .971 OPS, Nationals sport a .308 average and .880 OPS, Mets sport a .325 average and .885 OPS and Phillies sport a .306 average and .855 OPS. The only team that hasn't hit over .300 against Harang in our division is us and we still own a .832 OPS against him.

I rest my case against this Harang signing...

[The Chosen One]

One of the only reasons I looked forward to facing the Reds every year in Cinncy, was because we got to face Harang... and I knew that meant plenty of runs.

[Braves1976]

One of the only reasons I looked forward to facing the Reds every year in Cinncy, was because we got to face Harang... and I knew that meant plenty of runs.

Me too, he is one of those pitchers I loved to see us face.

[Braves1976]

BTW, the Brewers who he is likely to face first have the third most homers of any team against him (24 total as a team). Of course Harang gives up a lot of homers and the Brewers play in a homer friendly park. So I'd look for more of the same to come. They also hit .293 against him with a .814 OPS as a team. Does anyone not hit Harang to an OPS under .800? LOL...

[skillet]

Odd that we would release Garcia to sign Harang.

[Julio3000]

Harang me
Harang me
They oughta get a rope and hang me

[nsacpi]

The main thing to keep in mind in the great Harang versus Garcia debate is both of them got released this spring.

[Braves1976]

Odd that we would release Garcia to sign Harang.

My only guess is that he is cheaper, but we can't be saving much here. I rather go with Schlosser for a game or two than a washed up bum like Harang.

[Dalyn]

You guys are so negative.

[Millwood1Hitter]

This guy is an absolute dumpster fire waiting to happen.

[Braves1976]

You guys are so negative.

:fredi:

[Millwood1Hitter]

You guys are so negative.

Are we not suppose to be? What's to like about this addition...they're gonna light fireworks at Turner Field everytime the opposing team hits a 500+ ft bomb? The NL has agreed to spot us 10 runs in games that he starts?

What exactly is to like about the worst starting pitcher on this staff since Shane Reynolds?

Garcia may be done, but he's the anti Harang and can at least gut out some innings. With Harang, the wick has already been light when he heads arrives at the park.

[Dalyn]

Are we not suppose to be? What's to like about this addition...they're gonna light fireworks at Turner Field everytime the opposing team hits a 500+ ft bomb? The NL has agreed to spot us 10 runs in games that he starts?

What exactly is to like about the worst starting pitcher on this staff since Shane Reynolds?

Garcia may be done, but he's the anti Harang and can at least gut out some innings. With Harang, the wick has already been light when he heads arrives at the park.

Is this another fake quote?

[Braves1976]

Are we not suppose to be? What's to like about this addition...they're gonna light fireworks at Turner Field everytime the opposing team hits a 500+ ft bomb? The NL has agreed to spot us 10 runs in games that he starts?

What exactly is to like about the worst starting pitcher on this staff since Shane Reynolds?

Garcia may be done, but he's the anti Harang and can at least gut out some innings. With Harang, the wick has already been light when he heads arrives at the park.

I'm with you, plus Garcia is a really likeable fella who his now former Braves teammates really took to judging from interviews, etc. That is why I was only in favor of dropping Garcia for a clear upgrade. If anything Harang is a clear downgrade IMO.

[bravesnumberone]

As Bob Uecker said...

"Obviously Taylor's thinking.....Idk what the hell he's thinking."

[sturg33]

harang's much better than freddy. He at least has some potential

[Braves1976]

harang's much better than freddy. He at least has some potential

It's been a while since the Braves have had a starter that is terrible vs every NL East team (every NL East team sports an OPS well over .800 vs Harang). If that spells potential I don't want any part of it...

[skillet]

Hale has had a really poor spring. I wonder if Schlosser might be in the rotation instead of him as the 4th starter.

[Millwood1Hitter]

This is a pitcher that had a 5.26 ERA and gave up 16 HRs in 89 innings in Safeco last year! That right, in the comfy confines of Safeco. If you can't pitch half ways decent there you don't deserve to be on a MLB pitching staff.

[NinersSBChamps]

Whatever.

Start Ervin, Julio, Minor, and Wood all season. Pitch them until their arm falls off. We all know they are going to get hurt at some point. Let's get something out of them first.

[Julio3000]

I'm excited at the possibility of some really sharp Chip Caray plays-on-words involving Aaron Harang's name.

/silver lining

[ChapelHillMatt]

Don't like it, Harang is not a good pitcher. Hopefully he only gets a handful of starts.

[gilesfan]

What exactly makes Harang better than Garcia?

[Braves1976]

Don't like it, Harang is not a good pitcher. Hopefully he only gets a handful of starts.

I am hoping he gets no more than one or two starts (probably at least two though).

[Braves1976]

What exactly makes Harang better than Garcia?

Well, Harang is better at giving up a .300 plus average and an OPS well over .800 vs every NL East team. Garcia doesn't even have that potential because he has actually been decent vs some NL East teams (and last year at his best vs the Nats in fact).

Maybe we can add Loe again to be our fourth starter, he is a veteran too.

[zitothebrave]

Not sure I get cutting Garcia, but Harang is better. JMO

Last 2 years Freddie has been total butt. combined 0.6 fWAR. Harang same time frame was 2.0.

That said both are trending very very down. both are just off their arguable worst season ever so neither is likely very good. Harang though is potentially better as an innings eater and as maybe a better overall pitcher too.

[jpx7]

I'm excited at the possibility of some really sharp Chip Caray plays-on-words involving Aaron Harang's name.

/silver lining

I'll be haranging on Chip's every word.

[zitothebrave]

I'll be haranging on Chip's every word.

I'm feeling harangsty that he may miss some good one.

[Carp]

Harang? He was terrible last year for Seattle of all teams. Meh.


But was suprisingly good with the Mets of all teams.....

[jcc03004]

I hope not varvaro has been horrible

[jcc03004]

I don't know harang is throwing 93 this spring last year it was 89 we need harang to be league average so that once everyone is back especially Floyd wood can go back to the pen to limit his innings

[jcc03004]

What until recently harang was a pretty servicable pitcher it's not like we are throwing dan kolb out there come on

[Braves1976]

I don't know harang is throwing 93 this spring last year it was 89

Harang wasn't throwing that hard starting, that was out of the bullpen. He was hitting 90-91 starting according to Wren and we're talking about a tiny sample size too.

[AUTiger7222]

Harang wasn't throwing that hard starting, that was out of the bullpen. He was hitting 90-91 starting according to Wren and we're talking about a tiny sample size too.

Garcia's top speed is about 86 right now. I know it's not all about velocity but there's a pretty big difference between 86 and 91.

[AUTiger7222]

BTW, the Brewers who he is likely to face first have the third most homers of any team against him (24 total as a team). Of course Harang gives up a lot of homers and the Brewers play in a homer friendly park. So I'd look for more of the same to come. They also hit .293 against him with a .814 OPS as a team. Does anyone not hit Harang to an OPS under .800? LOL...

Considering he pitched for the Reds for a number of years and the Reds play the Brewers a lot it's not surprising.

[GovClintonTyree]

Garcia's top speed is about 86 right now. I know it's not all about velocity but there's a pretty big difference between 86 and 91.

The real question is how Freddy got anybody out last year.

Harang should be better. If he's regained a few mph on his fastball, that's a pretty good sign. He was a nice pitcher for a while, albeit with a touch of gopheritis.

Schlosser has to be a better option than Hale at this point.

Santana, Floyd and Minor make all of this a tempest in a teapot. If this were the middle of the season, these would be spot starts, nothing more.

[Knucksie]

No real reaction to these moves. Garcia received an irrational amount of dislike. Besides the Game 4, he had an ERA under 2.00 for 6 starts down the stretch last season, if memory serves. Who cares about what it takes to get outs? For $1.25MM, this was a small price to pay for some added insurance, esp. after opening up the bank vaults for those LT contracts for "the core."

Harang was useful a few years back. This must be one of those attempts to capture lightning in a bottle, which worked so effectively during the Leo era. Most everybody seems to like McDowell, but he hasn't been quite as adept as these reclamation projects.

[nsacpi]

Thinking about this a little more, I don't think there is much difference between Harang and Garcia in terms of how they woul do as starters. As a starter I slightly prefer Garcia. But looking down the road and assuming one of them ends up most of the season in the pen, I begin to see the case for Harang. As a reliever he will be able to dial it up a couple mph, and I think he has a better chance of success in the pen than Garcia.

[The Chosen One]

Hopefully harang doesn't channel the ghost of Adam Bernero.

[stpeteirish]

This is a pitcher that had a 5.26 ERA and gave up 16 HRs in 89 innings in Safeco last year! That right, in the comfy confines of Safeco. If you can't pitch half ways decent there you don't deserve to be on a MLB pitching staff.

But look at Freddy's numbers with Baltimore. They're basing this move on now they've looked this spring, at least Harang can throw hard when he needs to, Freddy can't anymore. I hope it quicly becomes a moot point with Minor and Floyd filling up the rotation. They both are nothing but short term solutions.

[sturg33]

Harang was bad last year... but previously was solid...

2012: 180 innings; 3.6 ERA (4.1 FIP)
2011: 170 innings; 3.6 ERA (4.1 FIP)

Hell, even last year with the Mets he wasn't bad (extremely small sample) - 23 IP; 3.5 ERA, 10K/9.

[clvclv]

That and the fact he has been the organization's Pitcher of the Year each of the last two seasons. Guy has answered every challenge and as a side-armer, he probably won't ever need TJ surgery.

Moylan???

Saw mention that he was going to need it sometime last week - not sure if he's had it yet.

[The Chosen One]

Also saw Moylan was expecting a second TJ... I remember his first appearance for us it was 2006 on TBS at Shea Stadium. Struck out a guy and they used pitch trax to show the movement on his pitches.

[zitothebrave]

Also saw Moylan was expecting a second TJ... I remember his first appearance for us it was 2006 on TBS at Shea Stadium. Struck out a guy and they used pitch trax to show the movement on his pitches.

Moylan has wonky shoulders, it's not shocking.

[AUTiger7222]

Hopefully harang doesn't channel the ghost of Adam Bernero.

Talk about taking me back. I remember that move like it was yesterday. I was so excited because I just knew the Braves could get Bernero to live up to the potential he had that the Tigers couldn't get out of him. Boy was I wrong.

[AUTiger7222]

Moylan???

Saw mention that he was going to need it sometime last week - not sure if he's had it yet.

It will be the 2nd time for Peter too. Had it in 2009 I think it was.

[The Chosen One]

But look at Freddy's numbers with Baltimore. They're basing this move on now they've looked this spring, at least Harang can throw hard when he needs to, Freddy can't anymore. I hope it quicly becomes a moot point with Minor and Floyd filling up the rotation. They both are nothing but short term solutions.

Not about throwing it hard, its about making pitch.

Freddy Garcia's best years are better than Harang.

Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz were still good pitchers in their older years despite the loss in velocity, I have no doubts Freddy the seasoned vet could still get away with throwing 88mph. Not always about the velocity, it's the pitch.

Garcia proved to me at the end of last year and Game 4 that he still had juice in the tank.

[jpx7]

Freddy Garcia's best years are better than Harang

... and occurred when Freddy threw a lot harder.

[The Chosen One]

... and occurred when Freddy threw a lot harder.

He's always been a better pitcher to me.

I have great memories of Harang getting bombed by us.

[thethe]

I think the difference is negligible. I'm just glad we have one for insurance.

[NinersSBChamps]

I think the difference is negligible. I'm just glad we have one for insurance.

Insurance for our insurance?

[keithlaw]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 10m
Scott Baker, Erik Bedard among emerging options for #Braves. Baker opting out of deal with #Mariners, per @ChrisCotillo.

sign em all. let the baseball gods sort it out

[rico43]

I have HATED watching Harang pitch. I have never said this before .. but there is no way in hell I spend my time watching him throw meatballs in Braves' home opener. I'm anywhere else that night.

The signing is the equiivalent of A Bridge Too Far. Wren must be suffering from hubris. I would rather see Schlosser take his lumps and learn from it. What an awful move.

[nsacpi]

Shouldn't Hale, a ground ball pitcher, pitch game 3 in Milwaukee and Harang, a fly ball pitcher, pitch game 1 in Washington? Small things add up over 162 games.

[clvclv]

It will be the 2nd time for Peter too. Had it in 2009 I think it was.

And now Gearrin with an elbow "sprain" and tenderness???


BTW, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Wren's talking to Bedard's people. Would make a lot of sense as he tries to patch things together for a few starts, and Harang and Bedard could certainly be useable pen pieces when Minor and Floyd are ready and beyond. They actually would provide Fredi the opportunity to limit everyone's innings early on since he could use those two for 2-3 inning stretches a couple times a week.

[clvclv]

Shouldn't Hale, a ground ball pitcher, pitch game 3 in Milwaukee and Harang, a fly ball pitcher, pitch game 1 in Washington? Small things add up over 162 games.



Only when he quits nibbling - walk a handful of guys early on in Miller Park, and his start there would likely resemble his Monday outing.

:Wall::Wall::Wall::Wall::Wall:

[nsacpi]

Blanton released. I'd rather have him than Harang or Garcia.

[Tapate50]

Garcia hasn't generated a ton of interest? Frankly I'm shocked.

[Krovahn]

Tommy Hanson released. I'd rather have him than Harang or Garcia.

What? Oh, sorry. I thought we were going to do this with every pitcher released at the end of spring training.

[Carp]

Why would anyone want Blanton? Especially over Harang. At least Harang has resembled a decent pitcher in the last couple yrs.

[The Chosen One]

You'd rather have Tommy Hanson? We no longer have McCann or David Ross, two catchers that could help make up for Tommy's slow delivery.

[nsacpi]

Why would anyone want Blanton? Especially over Harang. At least Harang has resembled a decent pitcher in the last couple yrs.

I like Blanton's strikeout to walk ratios the last three seasons.

[Dalyn]

If time of possession was important in baseball, I would take Hanson in a heartbeat.

[Tapate50]

Tommy Hanson released. I'd rather have him than Harang or Garcia.

What? Oh, sorry. I thought we were going to do this with every pitcher released at the end of spring training.

Just goes to show you not to judge depth until the pieces have all fallen and we head north IMO. Lots of people find themselves in new places before OD.

[Krovahn]

Appears some people can not detect obvious sarcasm and mockery.

[keithlaw]

You'd rather have Tommy Hanson? We no longer have McCann or David Ross, two catchers that could help make up for Tommy's slow delivery.

I hear he still has a plus changeup...

[Tapate50]

If time of possession was important in baseball, I would take Hanson in a heartbeat.

Strong post.

That was the stat Frenchie never understood why it wasn't on the scoreboard right ?

[yeezus]

If time of possession was important in baseball, I would take Hanson in a heartbeat.

Bravo.

Pitchers working fast is known to be a good thing, and he just never, ever couldn't be slow.

[keithlaw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxDl_ER5VC0

Pretty sure Wren saw this trailer and decided to ape the idea by signing Harangutan

[AUTiger7222]

It's pretty freaking funny to me that every one of you guys in this thread thought replacing Freddy Garcia with Aaron Harang was a terrible move but when I rag on the guy I get hammered for being negative. Talk about hypocritical!

[zbhargrove]

It's pretty freaking funny to me that every one of you guys in this thread thought replacing Freddy Garcia with Aaron Harang was a terrible move but when I rag on the guy I get hammered for being negative. Talk about hypocritical!

Do you even listen to yourself?

[AUTiger7222]

Do you even listen to yourself?

Again. I am not negative about everything. This Freddy Garcia/Aaron Harang thing is the only negative thing I've been negative about all offseason with the Braves. I didn't bitch that the Braves didn't trade for David Price. I didn't bitch that the Braves were going to be the Nationals person bitch this season. I didn't bitch that the Braves didn't dump Dan Uggla. I'm not bitching that Fredi Gonzalez is going to hit B.J. Upton 2nd. Those are the people that annoy the hell out of me.

[PawPawMaxwell]

What is really annoying is your perception that the only person with knowledge/insight about the Braves is yourself and your persistent little habit of deriding anyone who disagrees with you. It is very apparent that you are young but you dont always have to act like it.

[gilesfan]

Again. I am not negative about everything. This Freddy Garcia/Aaron Harang thing is the only negative thing I've been negative about all offseason with the Braves. I didn't bitch that the Braves didn't trade for David Price. I didn't bitch that the Braves were going to be the Nationals person bitch this season. I didn't bitch that the Braves didn't dump Dan Uggla. I'm not bitching that Fredi Gonzalez is going to hit B.J. Upton 2nd. Those are the people that annoy the hell out of me.

I think the number of double negatives is a record.

[AerchAngel]

I think the number of double negatives is a record.

huh?

[yeezus]

It's pretty freaking funny to me that every one of you guys in this thread thought replacing Freddy Garcia with Aaron Harang was a terrible move but when I rag on the guy I get hammered for being negative. Talk about hypocritical!

Not everyone thought it was a terrible move. What are you talking about? A lot felt Harang was probably a better option.
This move doesn't have even have the potential to be "terrible." It involves two older guys signed for depth. Harang is throwing harder and not relying on junk, so I personally prefer him. If they went with Freddy that'd have been OK with me too. It's just not a big deal.

[zbhargrove]

Again. I am not negative about everything. This Freddy Garcia/Aaron Harang thing is the only negative thing I've been negative about all offseason with the Braves. I didn't bitch that the Braves didn't trade for David Price. I didn't bitch that the Braves were going to be the Nationals person bitch this season. I didn't bitch that the Braves didn't dump Dan Uggla. I'm not bitching that Fredi Gonzalez is going to hit B.J. Upton 2nd. Those are the people that annoy the hell out of me.

And again... if people are negative about something you don't like its okay... if they are negative or critical about someone you're a fan of, its not okay. How can you not see what you're doing here?

[bravebonebook]

Again. I am not negative about everything. This Freddy Garcia/Aaron Harang thing is the only negative thing I've been negative about all offseason with the Braves. I didn't bitch that the Braves didn't trade for David Price. I didn't bitch that the Braves were going to be the Nationals person bitch this season. I didn't bitch that the Braves didn't dump Dan Uggla. I'm not bitching that Fredi Gonzalez is going to hit B.J. Upton 2nd. Those are the people that annoy the hell out of me.

Has this franchise fallen so far in some minds that we now lament the season before even the first, real game is played? Incredible!

[AUTiger7222]

What is really annoying is your perception that the only person with knowledge/insight about the Braves is yourself and your persistent little habit of deriding anyone who disagrees with you. It is very apparent that you are young but you dont always have to act like it.

Woah, back the boat up! I do not do that.

[AUTiger7222]

Has this franchise fallen so far in some minds that we now lament the season before even the first, real game is played? Incredible!

Not me. I never said that. But I guess you did miss all the posts talking about how the Nationals were going to wipe the floor with the Braves.

[AUTiger7222]

And again... if people are negative about something you don't like its okay... if they are negative or critical about someone you're a fan of, its not okay. How can you not see what you're doing here?

People can be negative about something. I don't have a problem with that. But when people constantly bitch about the same thing over and over and over and over again it's annoying as hell. Example, all the bitching about the Braves starting pitching being terrible (before the injuries to Medlen and Beachy) and how Frank Wren was a moron for not signing an average pitcher in Ervin Santana to fix it. How many times did we need hear about that from different posters?

[The Chosen One]

Relax dudes. Please.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Not everyone thought it was a terrible move. What are you talking about? A lot felt Harang was probably a better option.
This move doesn't have even have the potential to be "terrible." It involves two older guys signed for depth. Harang is throwing harder and not relying on junk, so I personally prefer him. If they went with Freddy that'd have been OK with me too. It's just not a big deal.

I agree

In fact I don't think either one of them stay in the rotation for very long.

[jpx7]

Relax dudes. Please.

Don't you have a fake injury-report with which to distract us?

[AUTiger7222]

Not everyone thought it was a terrible move. What are you talking about? A lot felt Harang was probably a better option.
This move doesn't have even have the potential to be "terrible." It involves two older guys signed for depth. Harang is throwing harder and not relying on junk, so I personally prefer him. If they went with Freddy that'd have been OK with me too. It's just not a big deal.

Braves1976
Millwood1fan
KeithLockhart
Skillet
bravesnumberone
NinersSBChamps
ChapelHillMatt
gilesfan

All questioned the move of how Harang was an improvement over Garcia. But when I question it I get called out about it. Whatever. Screw it!

[Millwood1Hitter]

Harang is garbage, no way around it. So what he throws harder? Jamie Moyer was getting hitters out throwing 86 at age 40, while John Smoltz was getting bombed throwing 93 the last year of his career. Who would you take then? John Burkett got hitters out throwing 87 while Van Poppel got bombed throwing 97. Who'd you take? One is smart to overcome stuff deficiencies, the other is a plain did that doesn't know how to use it.

I agree Freddy's probably done, but he is also smart enough and crafty enough to get hitters out throwing junk and locating at this stage of his career and eating innings, while Harangs wick is already lite warming up in the pen.

In fact, Harang, despite his stuff, has relatively underperformed and been a terrible pitcher.

No matter which way your looking at it, Harang in no shape or form is any type of upgrade over Garcia unless its a radar contest, and that is irrelevant.

There is no upside to Harang. He's a piece of trash plain and simple.

[TURBO]

Whether a player is terrible or not, I think calling anyone a piece of trash, garbage, etc is just plain immature and just wrong. I hate when people say that about players based on their ability.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Your right...I should word it better.

Harang is humanitarian of the year for struggling hitters.

[The Chosen One]

Whether a player is terrible or not, I think calling anyone a piece of trash, garbage, etc is just plain immature and just wrong. I hate when people say that about players based on their ability.

I think the case could be made for Dan Kolb and Mark Redman.

[zitothebrave]

I wouldn't compare Freddy Garcia to Jaime Moyer. Moyer had a plus pitch, his changeup. Garcia doesn't have that. Freddy when he lost a few ticks off his fastball lost all his value. Freddy hasn't pitched well in ages, Since he last left the White Sox he had maybe one season where he was good and semi-healthy.So basically 6 out of his last 7 years he's been hurt or flat out sucked or both.

Odds are, that trend continues.

Harang has been better over that same time frame.

Again,neither are a big improvement over the other. Harang has been slightly better lately. Both suck if they're reliant on.

[Millwood1Hitter]

I just looked up garbage in the dictionary and there was a pic of Shane Reynolds there.

[Braves1976]

Braves1976
Millwood1fan
KeithLockhart
Skillet
bravesnumberone
NinersSBChamps
ChapelHillMatt
gilesfan

All questioned the move of how Harang was an improvement over Garcia. But when I question it I get called out about it. Whatever. Screw it!

You forgot Rico who even said that he wouldn't go the Braves home opener due to Harang starting it. Seriously, you are right that a lot of us don't like Harang or the move. However, I think you rub some folks the wrong way making yourself out to be an expert (you've even called yourself such on here before) along with questioning others for doing the same things you're guilty of doing at times.

That said, I am not saying the above to pile on or take a shot at you. I'm just saying this is my own observation. I really could care less how much you bash Harang.

[AUTiger7222]

You forgot Rico who even said that he wouldn't go the Braves home opener due to Harang starting it. Seriously, you are right that a lot of us don't like Harang or the move. However, I think you rub some folks the wrong way making yourself out to be an expert (you've even called yourself such on here before) along with questioning others for doing the same things you're guilty of doing at times.

That said, I am not saying the above to pile on or take a shot at you. I'm just saying this is my own observation. I really could care less how much you bash Harang.

I never called myself an expert. I know I don't know everything there is to know about the Braves. I have even admitted that Millwood1hitter, Rico and a couple others know more about the Braves than I do. I have even admitted to being wrong about some of the things I have said about the Braves.

[Dalyn]

:Bunchie1:

[The Chosen One]

I only wish Freddy Garcia would've pitched the home opener. He would've likely gotten a standing ovation for game 4

[Runnin]

Whether a player is terrible or not, I think calling anyone a piece of trash, garbage, etc is just plain immature and just wrong. I hate when people say that about players based on their ability.

And the same goes for coaches.

[tvsportscaster]

And the same goes for coaches.

What is amazing is that everyone is getting their panties all in a wad over a guy who at most is going to make 3 to 4 starts at the most for you. After that, if he sucks you can release him.

[Bama007]

Harang or Garcia no difference other than the $1mil bonus Garcia would have gotten to make the roster.

[50PoundHead]

Harang or Garcia no difference other than the $1mil bonus Garcia would have gotten to make the roster.

The pertinent point. $1 million won't break Liberty's bank, but why spend it at all for a marginal difference in performance. We're likely going to see on-going plug-and-play guys in the rotation until everyone is healthy.

[clvclv]

What I personally find funny - and maybe it's just me - is that people are seriously debating (and getting torn up about) Aaron Harang vs. Freddy Garcia.

Really???

I mean, why not Jordan Schafer over Aaron Cunningham...or maybe oaks vs. maples...sand vs. dirt...day vs. night???



It's simply a veteran to make 3-4 starts so you don't have to start someone's clock prematurely for that specific purpose.

[The Chosen One]

Starting pitching has a bigger effect than 4of?

Schafer can go 3 4 days without games.

[yeezus]

Braves1976
Millwood1fan
KeithLockhart
Skillet
bravesnumberone
NinersSBChamps
ChapelHillMatt
gilesfan

All questioned the move of how Harang was an improvement over Garcia. But when I question it I get called out about it. Whatever. Screw it!

Ok...that's not everyone. I didn't say everyone adored the move. Some questioned, fine. Not many are throwing tantrums over it. It's not that big of a move. It's not worth getting upset over. It changes little in the long run.