Compleete & Ready For Debate: 1st-ever Chop Country Prospects List

[rico43]

Here's my full list, for better or worse. Again, thanks to thethe for his comments – and thank you for yours. Unlike Shanks, I will not defend this list to the death, nor will I question the IQ of those who differ. It's a LIST, a starting point, a basis for discussion. So go discuss and cuss.

1. Alex Wood, LHP. On the list by defaut; he has proven he sdbelongs in majors, but he is ',back to AAA to stretch his arm back out as a starter. He blew through the farm system in record time for a Braves pitching draftee.Seems apparent the Braves will be trading a starter sometime soon.

2. Luke Sims, RHP. Last year's No. 1 pick doesn't turn 20 until next May, but he has a sub-2.00 ERA in Rome since April. The hometown boy (Lawrenceville) is holding SAL hitters to a .183 average. Slowly but surely is working just fine for Sims, as he had eight relief appearance before joining the Rome rotation (3-2, 2.27 as starter).

3. Mauricio Cabrera, RHP. Sims' Rome teammate turns 20 in September, but has been stretched out to a career high number of innings already and was clocked at over 100 mph in his last start, against A-Rod and Charleston. .At 6-2, 180, he looks like a veteran but is probably feeling the fatigue of his workload.

4. Jose Peraza, SS. The reins have been taken off the 6-0 shortstop from Venzuela, and the results have been spectacular. Since the SAL all-star game, he's 16-16 in stolen bases and has 10 steals in nine games in July. He's stolen 36 total bases in 2013, including four in one game. But he has 21 errors at shortstop this year. He's hitting .273 -- .400 in July.

5. Cody Martin, RHP. With injuries to Graham and Gilmartin, Martin (who has rebounded from a broken foot late last year) has because the next starter in line for promotion. Since moving up to Gwinnett, he won his first two starts while holding IL hitters to a .222 average over five starts (2-1, 2.73). Big and strong (6-2, 225, he turns 24 in September, so he's right on track.

6. Jason Hursh, RHP. So far, so good. Two short outings without a run allowed for this year's No. 1 pick -- the expectation is he moves through the system as quickly as Minor or Gilmartin, if not Wood. But he will be on a pitch count for a while after sitting idle for two months.

7. J.R. Graham, RHP. His "minor" shoulder problem has him shelved for two months after a slow start. His last game action was May 13th, and no rehab schedule has been announced. Shoulders are much bigger concerns that elbows, and the Braves have every right to be concerned.

8. Tommy La Stella, 2B. The smooth swing of La Stella would likely have him already in Gwinnett if not for a serious series of injuries, including a beaning and hamstring problems. It's doubtful we've seen 100 percent of La Stella over an extended period of time. If his defense measures up, he's Uggla's successor.

9. Gus Schlosser, RHP. Every list I've seen has underrated Schosser, but all he's done is dominate every league he's been placed in. Since being signed in 2011, he's 21-9 with eight saves and a sub-.3.00 ERA (including 2.36 this season at Mississippi). He gonna win someone a lot of games one day.

10. Christian Bethancourt, C. Why has he every dropped out of the top 10? He's still only 21, and is hitting a respectable .262 in the Soutfhern League, where only four players are over .300. He has five homers and 14 doubles, so the power is slowly finding itself. He also has seven stolen bases and defense to die for

11. Sean Gilmartin, LHP. The former No. 1 hit the wall at Gwinnett this year even before his injury. In his last 10 starts, he was 2-7, 7.04 and hasn't thrown since June 16. He4, too, has a shoulder problem (they're calling it tendinitis for now).

12. Edward Salcedo, 3B. One aspect of Salcedo has emerged this year at AA -- leadership. He has been the constant in the lineup, his errors are down and he will set personal bests in every offensive category. He is, lest we forget, 21 (22 in two weeks). He is slumping in July, had a superb May.

13. Matt Lipka, CF. Another guy who should have never slipped on the prospect board. Injuries fouled his progress, but he has been a first-rate CF this year and his bat (.287) is starting to measure up to his speed (19 SBs) and glove as a tool. Already has career high in homers, within two doubles and three RBIs of matching those highs.

14. Joey Terdoslavich, RF. Worried (until Saturday afternoon) that he'd flop this audition and never get another chance. This guy is a born AL DH, and has trade value right now.

15. David Hale, RHP. After an all-star season for Mississippi, an caused him to miss a month. But he's pitched well, if in bad luck, for Gwinnett since his return. See Friday night's game for merely the latest example. See him as bullpen candidate in 2014.

16. Carlos Salazar, RHP. Going 100 percent on potential here. Retired no one in his second pro appearance. But everyone loves his arm and the Braves paid for the honor, so here he sits for the moment.

17. Victor Caratini, 3B-C. Has seemingly settled on third as his pro position. Done more than his 4-4 debut, but the Puerto Rican is a hitting machine. He's the third and last of this year's picks to be ranked here.

18. Shae Simmons, RHP. Mainly a guy who can place his 96 mp fastball, but his potential to add another pitch. On a pace for 30 saves this year.

19. Carlos Perez, LHP. Once a top 10 guy, he fell off the face of the map in 2011. Reinvented as setup guy/LOOOGY, he has recaptured his mojo and has been unhittable in small doses this year. It's not a big leap to say he could do the job in the majors, but he's only just returned to Lynchburg.

20. Todd Cunningham, CF. On schedule to go onto the 40-man roster next year, if not sooner. A pure singles hitter, has fewer XBH than Bethancourt. But he is a switch-hitter and he has stolen 16 bases and only struck out 47 times.

21. Connor Lien, CF. The youngest player (19) on Danville's roster, he's also the team's leadoff man who has been on a hot streak (10-27 since July 5). Has all the tools except power, and is emerging as a leader as well. Should rise on this list.

22. Aaron Northcraft, RHP. Having a bad year (3-8, 4.30) while his peers are having a good year. Healthy, but looking as if he'll need a second year in Double-A. Strikeouts down, walks and home runs allowed up.

23. Wilson Rivera, RHP. Converted infielder has come into his own in 2013 (5-0, 1.99). In his pro career, Wilson is now 9-0, 2.13 in 80 games with 170 strikeouts in 127 innings. Needs to be pushed through the system from this point forward.

24. Josh Elander, LF. Concerns about his position are fading fast. He hasn't picked up in Lynchburg where he left off in Rome, however; he seemed likely to earn 100 RBis in Rome. Overall, has 37 extra base hits in 84 games, 63 RBIs and is still batting a combined .312.

25. Mark Lamm, RHP. Has continued to be steady after his surprising promotion to Gwinnett. You'll see him in the majors before you see Gearrin again. Was a starter the whole time at Vandy, and has gone through some growing pains as a closer.

26. Robby Hefflinger, LF. Placed himself solidly on the prospects lists with his double-whammy in the all-star game (MVP and HR Derby winner). Was miles ahead of everyone in the SAL, and had power with average (.286). Power followed him to AA (24 total); he just needs to string some small hits together to get on Big Boy radar.

27. Victor Reyes, OF. The mystery man, who is making his stateside debut in style: .351-0-12 in 16 games. The 6-3, 170 Venezuelan is a lefty hitter who is also 2-2 in stolen bases. He doesn't turn 19 until October, so don't expect him to be rushed along.

Over on his new site, Gondeee is considering Thomas a prospect now, as his conversion to starter has been as successful as his earlier relief work. A healthy left-hander with live stuff. Of course28. Ian Thomas, LHP. he is a prospect, and his latest start was his best.

29. Ryan Buchter, LHP. Basing this much more on his 2012 with Miss. (3-1, 4 saves, 1.31) than his initial full season in AAA -- but he has still struck out 65 in 40 innings.

30. Jesus Jones, RHP. I refused to do this list without my new personal saver. In his second DSL season at age 18, the 6-2, 165 Domincan right-hander has pitched in eight games, worked 12 innings with no earned runs, striking out 11 and walking five. He has a streak of 10 straight shutout innings working. Opponents are managing only a .146 average against him.

Just missed: Joe Leonard, 3B. Can play third (or first) in the majors right now. Bat will be his Waterloo.

[zitothebrave]

I would probably put La Stella and Salcedo a little higher. But good list overall. Personally I'd put Sims 1 and WOod 2 but given how much closer Wood is to the majors, obviously I'm OK with him being higher.

I really hope Lipka keeps developing, would be nice to have a speedy option to use in a future OF.

[thethe]

I think the most underrated or unoticed story of the farm this year is Bethancourt is showing some power. Guy is still young and in AA. He doesn' tneed to hit a lot ot be a valueable major league player.

[nsacpi]

Bravo on a nicely put together list sure to stimulate discussion.

The Top 4 I don't think there should be much disagreement on.

There are several young pitchers I would have included on the list: Parsons, Merejo, Leon. Others I would have included: Wren, Camargo, Jaime, Ryne Harper.

The ones I would not have included to make room for the seven above: Jesus (sorry), Buchter, Lamm, Rivera, Lien, Simmons, Salazar

I think Schlosser should be in the Top 30, but much lower on the list. I would push up Victor Reyes a bit.

[thethe]

I don't think Lien should be bumped out honestly. He has been said to be an extremely toolsy player and while his BB/K numbers are rough he is doing a nice job in Danville this year.

I think the other points are fair and it should be fun to see how these kids progress in the system. I am a big fan of Wren. Hope he continues to do what he is doing.

[BRule]

With a weaker system, it's sad to see Salcedo so low....Also with Zito as thinking Sims > Wood.

Also, crazy how many names I don't know....where did the farm go? Anyone know where our system ranked with BA and the like? I assume somewhere in the 20's

[nsacpi]

Sims by the way is 19. Will turn 20 next May.

Birthdate 5/10/94

[thethe]

With a weaker system, it's sad to see Salcedo so low....Also with Zito as thinking Sims > Wood.

Also, crazy how many names I don't know....where did the farm go? Anyone know where our system ranked with BA and the like? I assume somewhere in the 20's

Assuming Wood is not elligible (which he won't be) it will be in the upper 20's but if he were eligible I think it would be in the low teens. There is a lot of talent but its lower in the system. The Braves farm ranking is going to suffer from guys making quick ascents (Simmons/Gattis/Wood). If those guys were all still in the minors then it woud look a hell of a lot better but who cares since they are at the major league level.

The top 4-5 is solid. After that there becomes a lot of maybes....

[gilesfan]

Do you really think Terdo has trade value? Like for what type of player?

[BRule]

Do you really think Terdo has trade value? Like for what type of player?

Dan Kolbb

[thethe]

Do you really think Terdo has trade value? Like for what type of player?

What is the knock on Terdo? Nobody is expecting him to be a star but why do you seem so certain that he may not even be a bench player?

[gilesfan]

What is the knock on Terdo? Nobody is expecting him to be a star but why do you seem so certain that he may not even be a bench player?

I don't understand the "why do you seem so certain that he may not be a bench player" That doesn't make sense to me.

Terdo has a decent stick. He could possibly stick around and fill in for some teams. Maybe he comes out of nowhere and becomes a starter. Chances are he's an Eric Hinske type pinch hitter, hope to not use him in the field guy.

Those guys don't have much trade value.

[rico43]

I don't think Lien should be bumped out honestly. He has been said to be an extremely toolsy player and while his BB/K numbers are rough he is doing a nice job in Danville this year.

I think the other points are fair and it should be fun to see how these kids progress in the system. I am a big fan of Wren. Hope he continues to do what he is doing.

Keep in mind that Lien is the youngest player on Danville's roster, but is playing center and batting leadoff. Add to to that his recent numbers and we see a guys with speed, range and leadership qualities coming of age a little bit. Lien won't be going away.
ha

[rico43]

Bravo on a nicely put together list sure to stimulate discussion.

The Top 4 I don't think there should be much disagreement on.

There are several young pitchers I would have included on the list: Parsons, Merejo, Leon. Others I would have included: Wren, Camargo, Jaime, Ryne Harper.

The ones I would not have included to make room for the seven above: Jesus (sorry), Buchter, Lamm, Rivera, Lien, Simmons, Salazar

I think Schlosser should be in the Top 30, but much lower on the list. I would push up Victor Reyes a bit.

Merejo is obviously a guy that could be included, and a re-think would likely have him somewhere. Parsons is such a wild card, just need to see more from him. Leon's lack of velocity is the old argument against him. Wren is 23 playing with children, but everything points to a good opportunity for him to stick around a while. Jaime not looking like the guy we've seen before and Harper is always going to be an underdog due to his draft position.

Camargo has a lot of defenders, but the way I see it, he's around 32-33 on my list.

Frankly, I'm surprised no one has reacted to Graham and Gilmartin's devaluation and the total disappearance of Navrery Moore.

[zitothebrave]

I don't know much about Moore, but Graham has a shoulder injury that's concerning, and I wasn't overly high on Gilmartin anyway, add shoulder questions and I'm fine with his ranking.

[The Chosen One]

Just how good is Betancourt's defense?

I think defense is a very underrated part of McCann's game. His value of framing pitches alone gives him plenty of value (that's more K's and changes the way at-bats are taken). He may not throw guys out like Rossy was doing, but he's still very valuable.

[jpx7]

Frankly, I'm surprised no one has reacted to Graham and Gilmartin's devaluation and the total disappearance of Navrery Moore.

Well, for Graham, the shoulder is a legitimate and large concern.

As for Gilmartin: I was personally never too hopeful with respect to his chances for long-term success, and this season his walks are up nearly a full BB per 9 compared to his AAA stint last season, and almost two BB per 9 when compared to his AA numbers, which is something a low-K guy with his stuff can't really afford. He also permits too many homeruns, further narrowing his margins. He'll have plenty of time in AAA to work, but he doesn't have stuff on his side à la Teheran (for instance), so one can't really ignore the 100 terrible innings with Gwinnett. Honestly, I'm not even sure he still belongs in the top-fifteen, but there aren't many clearly better players to push him down the list, and at least he's still only 23.

[gilesfan]

Bethancourts defense is legit. It is the real deal.

[emk418]

Great list. I am really starting to think we may have a special prospect in Peraza. For a guy that's so young and doing real well in A ball he may move quick. Obviously still years away. Simmons/Peraza up the middle sure sounds good.

[nsacpi]

Great list. I am really starting to think we may have a special prospect in Peraza. For a guy that's so young and doing real well in A ball he may move quick. Obviously still years away. Simmons/Peraza up the middle sure sounds good.

It will be a few years, but Peraza sure would fill our need for a leadoff guy. With Simmons at short, I imagine he will get moved to center or second.

[thethe]

Braves system is going to be underrated again this year. Like nsacpi eloquently pointed out earlier, the Braves just produce quality major leaguer after quality major leaguer. Guys like Gattis/Terdo/Martin aren't highly valued by national prospect list makers but they will all be valueable major league players. Braves will probably end up with a 21-24 ranking and the usual suspects like Law will say how Wren doesn't know how to draft. But, in the end the Braves are producing major leaugers.

[nsacpi]

Braves system is going to be underrated again this year. Like nsacpi eloquently pointed out earlier, the Braves just produce quality major leaguer after quality major leaguer. Guys like Gattis/Terdo/Martin aren't highly valued by national prospect list makers but they will all be valueable major league players. Braves will probably end up with a 21-24 ranking and the usual suspects like Law will say how Wren doesn't know how to draft. But, in the end the Braves are producing major leaugers.

Also we seem to be coming out of a dry spell in terms of getting good international signings into the system. Last year we saw the stateside debuts of Cabrera, Peraza and Merejo. This year's group includes Victor Reyes, Camargo and Leon. Those are six quality prospects.

[thethe]

Also we seem to be coming out of a dry spell in terms of getting good international signings into the system. Last year we saw the stateside debuts of Cabrera, Peraza and Merejo. This year's group includes Victor Reyes, Camargo and Leon. Those are six quality prospects.

I'm not worried at all about the Braves farm moving forward. There is nowhere to go at the major league level right now so these kids are going to get to develop the right way.

[nsacpi]

I'm not worried at all about the Braves farm moving forward. There is nowhere to go at the major league level right now so these kids are going to get to develop the right way.

That's a good point. Because of finances we've rushed some of our prospects. For the most part it has worked out, but I think it might be part of the reason we see some inconsistency in some our of young players. Some of the adjustments and learning that they might have gone through in AAA they are doing at the major league level. I think it is no coincidence that the steadiest of our young hitters is Freeman, who happens to be the only one who spent almost a full year in AAA. Among the pitchers, Teheran is the one who spent two years marinating in AAA. I think he clearly benefited and learned from the struggles he went through last year.

[rico43]

For what it's worth, I am rapidly upgrading my worth of Victor Reyes. He is on fire. I would love to see him in person.

[Jay212033]

For what it's worth, I am rapidly upgrading my worth of Victor Reyes. He is on fire. I would love to see him in person.

Love Reyes and Camargo! Camargo has a very nice short swing, he has good plate discipline and he can play multiple positions.

[rico43]

I wish I could have stepped up and included Alejandro Piloto. He is hitting and playing defense with a huge arm in Danville and is now playing every day. He's older, so he could climb quickly!

[skillet]

I'm curious as to why Kyle Wren is not rated any higher than he is. 22 year old center fielder in Rome, who in his first 17 games (first 5 in Danville), he is hitting .357/.408/.529/.936 and has already stolen 13 bases and has not been caught, yet he is not rated in the top 30? How is that possible?

[skidlee]

I would guess because he has only played 17 games.

But from the early results he should be moving up soon.

[thethe]

Yeah, it was such a small sample and he wasn't a top draft choice. If Rico plans on doing an offseason version of this list I'm sure his name would be included somewhere. Wren has been a pleasant surprise from 13 draft.

[skidlee]

here is a little write up from Talking Chop

Kyle Wren | Center Fielder | Age: 22 | Rome

73 PAs, 1 HR, 13 SB, 6 BB, 7 K, .348/.403/.515

After the 2013 MLB Rule 4 Draft, few players caught the eyes of fans like 8th round pick Kyle Wren. Wren's last name made him somewhat of a known commodity; if you haven't heard by now, he's the son of Braves' GM Frank Wren. But don't let that fool you, because Wren was drafted on his merits. In fact, Baseball America ranked Wren the 210th best prospect of the 2013 draft; The Braves got him at pick #253.

On the diamond, Wren's best tool is his speed. With what two different scouts label as 70 speed, he's the fastest guy in Atlanta's system right now. That speed allows him to cover wide swaths of center field easily, making him an above-average defender at the position. That speed also plays very well on the base paths, where Wren has excellent basestealing instincts. The reads and jumps he gets are impressive and have led to him swiping 13 bases in 17 minor league games without being caught a single time. For an idea of his instincts on the base paths, check out this video of him stealing third base earlier this week.

While Wren's speed has been as good as advertised so far, the bat is what's most surprising. Through 17 games, Wren's putting up a scalding .348/.403/.515 line. The power is what's truly impressive, as he's already smacked 9 extra base hits. His speed certainly aids him in that department too. Wren will never be a big home run guy, but the hope is that he can put on a little more muscle to give him decent gap power - his speed should do the rest.

The biggest caveat with Wren right now is that he's 22 years old in Low-A. He'll have to prove himself with the bat in higher levels, and I imagine the Braves will be aggressive in promoting him, given his age and stellar results so far. But, regardless of how well his bat plays, his speed and instincts (both on the bases and in the field) should make him an asset.

- Dan Simpson

[nsacpi]

We have four fringy centerfield prospects--Cunningham, Lipka, Wren, Lien. It will be interesting to see how they develop. Maybe one of them will surprise and develop into a regular.

[thethe]

We have four fringy centerfield prospects--Cunningham, Lipka, Wren, Lien. It will be interesting to see how they develop. Maybe one of them will surprise and develop into a regular.

I think Wren might have the highest floor of that group but Lien has the highest ceiling. You are right though. There are some CF options down the road if the Braves are forced to make a change with BJ after 2-3 years.

Overall though, the hitting is on the upswing down on the farm.

[skillet]

Thanks Skidlee for posting that. I'm very intrigued by Wren. Yes he is 22 in Rome, but that is simply because that is where he was placed (after an obvious promotion need after 5 games in Danville). His elite speed coupled with excellent instincts, along with great defense, profiles him to be a perfect leadoff man if he continues to develop. I would easily place him no lower than 25 now and would raise that considerably if he continue to impress as he moves up the ladder.

[thethe]

Thanks Skillet for posting that. I'm very intrigued by Wren. Yes he is 22 in Rome, but that is simply because that is where he was placed (after an obvious promotion need after 5 games in Danville). His elite speed coupled with excellent instincts, along with great defense, profiles him to be a perfect leadoff man if he continues to develop. I would easily place him no lower than 25 now and would raise that considerably if he continue to impress as he moves up the ladder.

Thats fair. This list was created to generate this kind of debate. You know its a great site when people are debating who should be listed in the 20-30 range of top prospects. Please continue to share your opinions. It will only make this community better.

And don't forget to drink some of our kool-aid on the way out!

[skillet]

I think Wren might have the highest floor of that group but Lien has the highest ceiling. You are right though. There are some CF options down the road if the Braves are forced to make a change with BJ after 2-3 years.

Overall though, the hitting is on the upswing down on the farm.

thethe, I agree that Lien might have the highest ceiling. I think he has the potential to be really good, but Wren brings the potential of an excellent leadoff hitter that we don't have in the system other than perhaps Lipka, but Wren could be much better.

[skillet]

By the way guys, I was mdcd4 on the old Braves board but this site wouldn't allow me to register with it. Good to be on this site and back with great Braves posters like ya'll.

[thethe]

By the way guys, I was mdcd4 on the old Braves board but this site wouldn't allow me to register with it. Good to be on this site and back with great Braves posters like ya'll.

What the heck took you so long? Its great to have you back in the mix!

[nsacpi]

It would be great if Wren and Peraza developed in genuine top of the order guys.

[skidlee]

I will post this also

Connor Lien | Center Fielder | Age: 19 | Danville

96 PAs, 4 HR, 4 SB, 7 BB, 34 K, .258/.316/.528

A 12th round pick in 2012 out of Windermere, Florida, Lien possesses massive sleeper potential due to a broad assortment of tools that could make an impact at the highest level. The 6’3”, 205 pound outfielder possesses a large frame with room for upper- and lower-body development, currently resembling a Division-I wide receiver in a baseball uniform. As of now, he’s a center fielder and projects to stay there in the near future thanks in part to his plus speed. His future defensive home is still up in the air and will be determined by how his body develops down the line. At the plate, Lien is quite raw, but has all the ingredients for a good hitter with plenty of power are present. At the moment, his swing is geared for hard line drives to the gaps, but the hope is that as he continues to physically mature and add loft to his swing, the power will start to manifest itself in the form of over-the-fence pop.

Lien showed a great eye with very little power in his professional debut last season. In a small sample so far in 2013, the outfielder has shown quite the opposite, posting a .518 slugging percentage — good for sixth best in the Appalachian League — despite walking in only 5.6 percent of his plate appearances. It’s fewer than 100 plate appearances, but it’s a trend worth noticing. Another issue is the propensity for swing-and-miss (35.6 percent this season), but it’s way too early to write him off completely based on this fact. The potential is there for plus power, so striking out at this level while making the necessary swing adjustments can be overlooked to a certain extent. Batters at this stage of the game are of the see-ball, hit-ball mentality, so the fact that he’s driving the ball with authority when he hits it is a definite positive; look for the other skills to develop later. He’s a ways away, but Lien may very well be worth the wait.

- Ethan Purser

[skidlee]

Shae Simmons | Right-Handed Pitcher | Age: 22 | Rome

38.0 IP, 14 BB, 59 K, 1.000 WHIP, 1.86 ERA

Shae Simmons was drafted by the Braves in the 22nd round of the 2012 MLB Draft out of Southeast Missouri State. The 5’9” right-hander whips his arm through at a ¾ slot, sitting mid-90’s with his fastball and ability to touch 97. He also offers a hard mid-to-low 80’s slider as a secondary pitch, something that will need improved command as he advances levels. Simmons is a bit old for Southern League prospect standards, but expect him to get promoted soon considering how well he’s performed this season. In 37 innings, he has sported a 1.70 ERA and 1.31 FIP to go along with a 59:13 strikeout-to-walk ratio. Simmons also benefits from keeping the ball on the ground – he has yet to give up a home run in 2013. The obvious player comp many will probably throw out, because he is short in stature, is Craig Kimbrel. While even in a perfect world he will never reach this level, he could turn into a solid back end arm. If he can improve his secondary stuff, look for him to progress rather quickly. You can check him out for yourself here (courtesy of Nathaniel Stoltz).

- Andrew Sisson

----------------------------------

[skidlee]

Victor Reyes | Left Fielder | Age: 18 | Gulf Coast League

88 PAs, 0 HR, 3 SB, 10 BB, 13 K, .365/.437/.473

Signed on the July 2, 2011 international signing day for $362,000, Victor Reyes is a talented 18-year-old outfielder from Venezuela. If I was Ethan, I would go on and on about his 6' 3"/180 frame that oozes projection with broad shoulders and lithe limbs. Reyes has some current speed, but as he fills out, he’ll likely slow down a touch. The Braves have already moved him to the corners during his stay in the GCL, and that’s where he’s likely to end up. The hope with Reyes is that he turns into a solid defensive outfielder with a good batting average and at least solid secondary skills, but he’s, of course, a long way away. But he’s off to an amazing professional start, and he’s doing well in the GCL, especially looking at the .353/.432/.471 line and 10/13 BB/K ratio. Again, it’s early, but he could very well start popping up on prospect lists in the next year or so.

- Mark Smith

----------------------------------

[Jay212033]

By the way guys, I was mdcd4 on the old Braves board but this site wouldn't allow me to register with it. Good to be on this site and back with great Braves posters like ya'll.

You were on of the better posters so I'm glad you're here!

[skillet]

Thanks thethe and Jay212033. For some reason I had trouble getting registered for this site but it finally worked. So glad to find ya'll here as the other site has diminished so badly. Overall I think Rico did a really nice job with this list. I would just have Wren and Reyes in the Salazar/Caratini range.

[skillet]

Kyle Wren continues to tear up Rome with a 3 for 5 night upping his slash line to .358/.404/.509/.913. He also has 14 stolen bases in only 18 games and still has not been caught.

Jose Peraza also with a 3 for 5 night upping his batting average to .281 with 40 stolen bases in 74 games.

One of my personal favorites Tommy La Stella, batting 3rd for AA Mississippi, also 3 for 5 and his slash line is now up to .329/.395/.438/.833 with 15 walks to only 13 strike outs. For his minor league career, he has an excellent batting average of .322 with an elite OBP of .404 with 89 walks to just 67 strike outs. He is an on base machine, something the big league club lacks.

[nsacpi]

Kyle Wren continues to tear up Rome with a 3 for 5 night upping his slash line to .358/.404/.509/.913. He also has 14 stolen bases in only 18 games and still has not been caught.

Jose Peraza also with a 3 for 5 night upping his batting average to .281 with 40 stolen bases in 74 games.

One of my personal favorites Tommy La Stella, batting 3rd for AA Mississippi, also 3 for 5 and his slash line is now up to .329/.395/.438/.833 with 15 walks to only 13 strike outs. For his minor league career, he has an elite OBP of .404 with 89 walks to just 67 strike outs. He is an on base machine, something the big league club lacks.

I find it interesting that Wren, Peraza and La Stella have skills that really complement the major league group very well. It will be interesting to see how it all fits together over the next few years. Putting a major league roster together is like fitting a jigsaw puzzle.

[Carp]

It think La Stella is going to be the future at 2b, Looks like a very good player. You HAVE to love the OBP. The eye alone will get him to the majors.

[50PoundHead]

Been busy with work and unable to take the time to post. Thanks for the list rico. Looks like you put a lot of thought into it.

I'm probably first chair in those who are on the pessimistic side of the farm system. There's no question we've graduated a bunch of guys in the past couple of seasons and that has weakened the system at the upper reaches, but it's more than a national perception. We just don't have a lot of quality guys above A right now. I think there are contributors and those are always helpful, but I just don't see a lot of "shake."

Only addition I would make is putting Elmer Reyes in somewhere between 25 and 30. Kid likely won't hit, but he can pick it and may project as a Ramiro Pena type.

As for Wren (and I'll admit I didn't like the pick but am not rooting for him to fail), he should be tearing it up in Rome. It's a lower level of competition than college D-1. We'll see how he proceeds. Again, he's probably a cog in the machine and it's always good to have solid cogs, but I doubt he's got much of a top end.

[nsacpi]

Been busy with work and unable to take the time to post. Thanks for the list rico. Looks like you put a lot of thought into it.

I'm probably first chair in those who are on the pessimistic side of the farm system. There's no question we've graduated a bunch of guys in the past couple of seasons and that has weakened the system at the upper reaches, but it's more than a national perception. We just don't have a lot of quality guys above A right now. I think there are contributors and those are always helpful, but I just don't see a lot of "shake."

Only addition I would make is putting Elmer Reyes in somewhere between 25 and 30. Kid likely won't hit, but he can pick it and may project as a Ramiro Pena type.

As for Wren (and I'll admit I didn't like the pick but am not rooting for him to fail), he should be tearing it up in Rome. It's a lower level of competition than college D-1. We'll see how he proceeds. Again, he's probably a cog in the machine and it's always good to have solid cogs, but I doubt he's got much of a top end.

Good points all around. Our better prospects are in Rome or rookie ball. The guys in the higher levels project mostly as useful bench/pen players. Alex Wood being the big exception.

I was also going to say something about Reyes. He could be the Janish/Pena type infield backup in a few years. I was surprised at how athletic he was in the spring training games.

[FUEagle]

Bethancourts defense is legit. It is the real deal.

Maybe he can be our Molina. Hell Yadier couldn't hit for a while and now look at him

[thethe]

Maybe he can be our Molina. Hell Yadier couldn't hit for a while and now look at him

The guy is starting to hit right now as well. The scouting reports were always that he had power and showed it in BP but couldn't translate that to the games. Maybe that is starting now.

[The Chosen One]

Was Andrelton Simmons on our list, or was he one of those under the radar guys that just popped out of nowhere?

I don't recall seeing him on our prospects lists.

[thethe]

Was Andrelton Simmons on our list, or was he one of those under the radar guys that just popped out of nowhere?

I don't recall seeing him on our prospects lists.

He was a top 10 guy but always very underrated because he didn't show any power.

Zito, famously said being arguably the best defensive SS in the minor leagues means nothing.

Either way, Braves prospects are always underrated now. Terdo is going to b a good one.

[chipchildress]

He was a top 10 guy but always very underrated because he didn't show any power.

Zito, famously said being arguably the best defensive SS in the minor leagues means nothing.

Either way, Braves prospects are always underrated now. Terdo is going to b a good one.

It was said he didn't have much of a bat despite having won the batting title in the Carolina League. Um.

[thethe]

It was said he didn't have much of a bat despite having won the batting title in the Carolina League. Um.

He is going to hit 15 homeruns a year consistently. Guy has some pop and will develop more in a year or so.

[chipchildress]

I just don't know how you win a batting title and people say you can't hit...power or not. But what do I know...

[rico43]

I just don't know how you win a batting title and people say you can't hit...power or not. But what do I know...

I think you do that when your name is Bill Shanks and you think everything you write is gosphel.

[skillet]

Bethancourt continuing to hit. His slash line in 64 games at AA Mississippi is now up to a respectable .280/.309/.436/.745. Christian still won't turn 22 for another 34 days which is young for the Southern League.

[Pugfan]

I know la Stella can hit but how is his defense? Lipka and betancourt should be higher on the list and Gilmarten should be lower, IMO.

[Pugfan]

Was Andrelton Simmons on our list, or was he one of those under the radar guys that just popped out of nowhere?

I don't recall seeing him on our prospects lists.
I think he was rated the 3rd best brave prospect a couple of years ago.

[Tapate50]

Rico,

If you had it to do over based on updated stats and how players are trending... what would be different?

[atl717]

Gilmartin is hardly a prospect for me. Ceiling of a #5, probably a swingman. He's not one of our top 20 prospects. My top 10 right now would go as

1. Sims- performance speaks for itself
2. Wood- stuff is good enough to be a #2 or #3. mechanics leave concern for improvement in command and staying healthy.
3. Cabrera- he's a lottery ticket right now but id rather hold this ticket than the rest of the starters who dont have near the promise.
4. Graham- he's at least a late inning reliever, though the injury isnt helping the skepticism surrounding his starting capabilities.
5. Martin- Looks like a #4 starter. Command needs to sharpen if he is gonna be that in the majors. Undervalued the past couple years.
6. Peraza- Speed looks good and he will take some walks. No present power, right now he looks like a utility guy with potential to be more.
7. Bethancourt- Strides with the bat look promising. His plate discipline is still terrible even with a slight increase in walks. Still skeptical.
8. Caratini- The bat I am most encouraged about in the low minors. Like the K/BB rate. He's a lottery ticket but again the lack of upside in the other bats put him this high.
9. La Stella- Always loved his K/BB rates. He's a super sub at least but he needs to stay healthy. He's a potential leadoff or #2 hole guy due to his OBP skills.
10. Hursh- All we have is his college scouting reports. But conservatively speaking, he's a late inning reliever in the bullpen.

We have a lot of high floor guys who will make the majors. Low on impact talents, but that happens when you graduate so much talent. Because of the lack of impact talents, Cabrera and Caratini are ranked higher than where others might rank them.

[nsacpi]

Wes Parsons is rising fast.

[Carp]

I still don't consider Betancourt much of a prospect. He is no longer "super young for his level", so that argument can no longer be used. He's not having a bad season with the bat, but it's nothing really of any note either.

[thethe]

I still don't consider Betancourt much of a prospect. He is no longer "super young for his level", so that argument can no longer be used. He's not having a bad season with the bat, but it's nothing really of any note either.

He is a catcher with ELITE defensive skills. He doesn't need to hit a lot to be considered a prospect at all. now that he is a hitting a little bit he is absolutely a prospect.

[gilesfan]

Lol off Bethancourt not a prospect. BTW, there are only 11 players in that league that are 21 or younger (3 at 20). He is almost a virtual lock to be a major league starting catcher based on his defensive skills. Also on a good note he has improved his offensive product while repeating the league.

[Heyward]

How old is Bethancourt?

21-22?

Wasn't Julio around the same age and a prospect, and others. Hit hitting has improved this year.

It's all about if he can hold his own offensively. He'd be a top 3-5 defensive catcher if he was in the majors, his defense is that good.

[zitothebrave]

Bethancourt isn't amazing. But he and Salcedo are about the only high upside guys we have in AA or high.

[rico43]

Whoa! Hold yer damn horses, people. Some bad intel on this page. I'll try to sort some things out, but I won't revise my top 30 until September.

Gilmartin was hurt and tried pitching that way too long. He rehabbed and is (as you'd hope) blowimg away the young-uns in the GCL: 9 innings, one hit, zero walks, 11 strikeouts, 0.00 ERA. He'll be fine -- if only as trade bait.

Bethancourt is fine and on track. The bright lights of Evan Gattis have put him back in the shadows a little -- which is just fine. His power is developing, his team is 10 games over .500 for the year, he still just 21.

We have a lot more on Hursh now than his college scouting reports. He has worked in six games for a total of 18 professional innings and has given up zilch. To be specific, he's allowed nine hits, seven walks, struck out 14 and not allowed a run of any kind.

I'm having a hard time leaving Graham up there (as others have) beause so many pitchers are showing top shelf talent while Graham sits and and sits.

Trying not to go apeshi* over Victor Reyes. He has just been promoted to Danville, but he has yet to hit a home run.

[thethe]

You have to think that Wes Parsons has pole vaulted his place in the organization. Top 20? Top 10?

What do you all think?

[skillet]

You have to think that Wes Parsons has pole vaulted his place in the organization. Top 20? Top 10?

What do you all think?

He had another excellent outing tonight, 7 innings, allowed only 2 hits, no runs, no walks, 8 strike outs. ERA down to 2.75. I think he might be considered somewhere in the 20-25 range at this point. Shae Simmons has also been really impressive, ERA of 1.40 for the year, striking out 14.2/9.

[nsacpi]

Yeah. Parsons is rising fast.

My current top 10:

1. Sims
2. Peraza
3. Bethancourt
4. Cabrera
5. Salcedo
6. Hursh
7. Parsons
8. Graham
9. Martin
10. Victor Reyes

[thethe]

Yeah. Parsons is rising fast.

My current top 10:

1. Sims
2. Peraza
3. Bethancourt
4. Cabrera
5. Salcedo
6. Hursh
7. Parsons
8. Graham
9. Martin
10. Victor Reyes

Really such a shame that Graham got hurt. Guy would be near or at the top of the list otherwise.

What is the update on him at this point? Is he projected that throw again this year?

[thethe]

Also, I know he is on the outside of the top 10 looking in but Kubitza is really in the mix. His bat rebounded after a tough year in Rome last year and his above average defense will take him far. Wish he hit for a higher average and didn't strike out as much because that worries me that he will get exposed as he ascends in the organization but for now he is another interesting guy for next year. That Miss team will need it. Aside from a couple of pitchers I don't think they will be very good at the start of the year next year.

[thethe]

Also Nscapi....not thinking about putting Caratini in that top 10? Tough decision IMO between he and Reyes.

[nsacpi]

Also Nscapi....not thinking about putting Caratini in that top 10? Tough decision IMO between he and Reyes.

I have Gilmartin at 11 and Caratini at 12.

Caratini definitely deserves consideration for the Top 10.

And so does Gilmartin. People have prematurely written him off. He was pitching with an injured shoulder most of this year.

One nice thing about some of our hitting prospects (Caratini, Reyes, Wren, Peraza, La Stella) is that they seem to have very good approaches. They keep the strikeouts down, walk a fair amount and use the entire field. Reyes is going to add some power as he fills out. Caratini too is eventually going to turn some of those doubles into home runs.

[thethe]

Can't agree with you anymore. Gilmartin will be a back end starter in the big leagues for a few years. Nothing special but when you make hte big leagues thats impressive.

[nsacpi]

Can't agree with you anymore. Gilmartin will be a back end starter in the big leagues for a few years. Nothing special but when you make hte big leagues thats impressive.

Well I have Martin ahead of him, and Martin to me is a back end of the rotation starter at best. I'm not saying Gilmartin is going to be an ace by any means, but even guys in our Top 10 don't project as aces. Even Sims doesn't project as an ace. I'd be happy if he was a solid #3 in a major league rotation. Obviously, he is younger and has a bit more upside than guys like Martin and Gilmartin, but aces are far and few between. Probably no one in our system--major or minor leagues--is going to be an ace. A few guys have a chance. Imo Teheran has the best chance, but even with him I'd put the odds of his becoming one of the 20 best starters in the majors (roughly my definition of an ace since not every team has an ace) at less than 50%.

[rico43]

Minor did not project as an ace. Beachy did not project as an ace. Was Medlen an "ace" when he was the best pitcher in te NL last September. Guess someone thought Wainwright didn't project as one, either. PRojections are, by and large, crapshots if not just crap.

Kids mature physically when adulthood arrives. Arms worn out in high school/college/summer ball get rested or repaired. Mechanics get fixed or go to hell. Not saying you're right or wrong, but you keep citing "projections" I tend to lose interest. Who does the projecting? Who watches the Watchmen?

[yeezus]

Minor did not project as an ace. Beachy did not project as an ace. Was Medlen an "ace" when he was the best pitcher in te NL last September. Guess someone thought Wainwright didn't project as one, either. PRojections are, by and large, crapshots if not just crap.

Kids mature physically when adulthood arrives. Arms worn out in high school/college/summer ball get rested or repaired. Mechanics get fixed or go to hell. Not saying you're right or wrong, but you keep citing "projections" I tend to lose interest. Who does the projecting? Who watches the Watchmen?

rico killing these niggas on that prospect ****, mayonnaise colored Benz he push miracle whips.

[nsacpi]

Minor did not project as an ace. Beachy did not project as an ace. Was Medlen an "ace" when he was the best pitcher in te NL last September. Guess someone thought Wainwright didn't project as one, either. PRojections are, by and large, crapshots if not just crap.

Kids mature physically when adulthood arrives. Arms worn out in high school/college/summer ball get rested or repaired. Mechanics get fixed or go to hell. Not saying you're right or wrong, but you keep citing "projections" I tend to lose interest. Who does the projecting? Who watches the Watchmen?

It is all subjective but to me an ace is someone with multiple seasons as a Top 20 starter in the majors. Medlen had one terrific half season. Beachy a bit longer. But they have to withstand the test of time to be an ace in my book.

[atl717]

Minor and Julio to a lesser extent are pitching like Aces, but they are still 2/3 starters. Aces do it for a few seasons or just are overwhelming talents like Harvey/Strasburg/Fernandez, etc. Just collect as many good pitchers as possible, and you will win a ton of games. Out of those good pitchers, someone is going to have an ace caliber season as we have seen with Minor.

[cajunrevenge]

Projections are never going to be 100% accurate but scouting is nothing more than projecting. Sometimes its obvious sometimes its not. This is why teams do their own scouting and dont rely on what baseball america or other teams think. The scouts who make their opinion public might not have thought much of Minor or Beachy but the Braves scouts did. The Braves spent a whole calendar year telling people Teheran was fine but few believed them. In scouting you can be wrong most of the time and just a few hits on players and your a genius.

[Deester11]

He is a catcher with ELITE defensive skills. He doesn't need to hit a lot to be considered a prospect at all. now that he is a hitting a little bit he is absolutely a prospect.
I agree teethe...i'm late to the dance in this thread, but Bethancourt is a joy to watch defensively. Offensively, it's a bonus with what he can do, but he is a prospect nonetheless.

[nsacpi]

Projections are never going to be 100% accurate but scouting is nothing more than projecting.

Yup. And those of us amateurs who come up with our own Top 20 list are also doing nothing more than projecting, whether we realize it or not.

[nsacpi]

In scouting you can be wrong most of the time and just a few hits on players and your a genius.

Yup. In 2010 we drafted Evan Gattis in the 23rd round. Great pick. But we also passed on him 23 times (we had an extra second round pick). And the vast majority of those 23 players selected ahead of him washed out. Each time we picked one of them instead of Gattis we were making a mistake. You have to accept that most your picks are "mistakes," guys who will not make the majors. You have to look at the overall picture when judging a draft or a farm system. It is too easy to just pick one part of the picture that shows success or failure.

[rico43]

Yup. In 2010 we drafted Evan Gattis in the 23rd round. Great pick. But we also passed on him 23 times (we had an extra second round pick). And the vast majority of those 23 players selected ahead of him washed out. Each time we picked one of them instead of Gattis we were making a mistake. You have to accept that most your picks are "mistakes," guys who will not make the majors. You have to look at the overall picture when judging a draft or a farm system. It is too easy to just pick one part of the picture that shows success or failure.

Good example of this is 2012 draft. If Lucas winds up panning out and Wood stays healthy, it will be considered a bell-ringer that your first two picks were golden.

[rico43]

Yup. In 2010 we drafted Evan Gattis in the 23rd round. Great pick. But we also passed on him 23 times (we had an extra second round pick). And the vast majority of those 23 players selected ahead of him washed out. Each time we picked one of them instead of Gattis we were making a mistake. You have to accept that most your picks are "mistakes," guys who will not make the majors. You have to look at the overall picture when judging a draft or a farm system. It is too easy to just pick one part of the picture that shows success or failure.

Braves already have four big leaguers out of that draft: Gattis, Simmons, Terdoslavich, Cunningham. I believe Leonard and Gosselin will also make it. This draft is already a success. Calling these picks "mistakes," however is not quite fair. Scouts could not possibly measure Gattis' heart and believe he would be as committed as he no doubt is. We should probably just consider it a plus that the Braves drafted him at all.

[nsacpi]

The average draft yields 4-5 players who make the majors. That's the benchmark I always start with in evaluating a draft.

First round picks will make the majors about three quarters of the time. Second round picks about two-thirds of the time. Third round picks about one-third.

Once you get past the tenth round, each individual pick has less than a 10% chance of making it. But if you pick 15 of those guys, the odds favor one of them making it.

[nsacpi]

Braves already have four big leaguers out of that draft: Gattis, Simmons, Terdoslavich, Cunningham. I believe Leonard and Gosselin will also make it. This draft is already a success. Calling these picks "mistakes," however is not quite fair. Scouts could not possibly measure Gattis' heart and believe he would be as committed as he no doubt is. We should probably just consider it a plus that the Braves drafted him at all.

Lipka is another one fro that draft who has a chance of making it. And the kid Drury who we traded to the Diamondbacks has a chance. It is already clear that 2010 was an above average draft. It will possibly be a great one if Simmons realizes his potential, and Terdoslavich or Gattis develop into regulars.

[Carp]

He is a catcher with ELITE defensive skills. He doesn't need to hit a lot to be considered a prospect at all. now that he is a hitting a little bit he is absolutely a prospect.

And I really question the importance people are placing on this. Henry Blanco has "elite defensive skills."


It's nice to CB improving with the bat, but he still isn't very good offensively.

[The Chosen One]

And I really question the importance people are placing on this. Henry Blanco has "elite defensive skills."


It's nice to CB improving with the bat, but he still isn't very good offensively.

Just one of those things.

When Yadier came up, I never expected him to be an offensive force at catcher.

[Carp]

But the likelihood of him being Yadier is slim to none. The more realistic comp (yet still unlikely ) is Bengie more so than Yadier.

[nsacpi]

Given how they have turned it up a notch in the second half of this season, I expect both Sims and Bethancourt to be on the various Top 100 lists after this year. Peraza has a shot at making some of those lists too.

[thethe]

The amount of power that CB is showing is really impressive. If he can learn how to be a bit more selective then we could have a potential core player moving forward. CB's development this season has to have the Braves thinking about what the best move for the franchise is moving forward. CB has always shown that he can make contact but now he is driving the ball. CB has 32 XBH so far this year. That was his total for the last two seasons COMBINED. Nobody can say that this was not a BREAKOUT year for him.

[thethe]

But the likelihood of him being Yadier is slim to none. The more realistic comp (yet still unlikely ) is Bengie more so than Yadier.

Where do you get this from? At 21 Yadi was in AAA but it was the PCL which is a much more hitter friendly league than the Southern league (AA) and he only posted a 760 OPS. Catchers take time to develop at the plate because much of their development in the minors is focused on the defensive part of the game. CB is right on track to becoming an impact playeer.

[Carp]

Where do you get this from? At 21 Yadi was in AAA but it was the PCL which is a much more hitter friendly league than the Southern league (AA) and he only posted a 760 OPS. Catchers take time to develop at the plate because much of their development in the minors is focused on the defensive part of the game. CB is right on track to becoming an impact playeer.


Because projecting 99% of the minor league players to develop into a one of the best hitters in the league is stupid. And it's even more so when the major question surrounding a certain prospect is "Will he hit?"

People who "Yadier took a while to develop" really aren't looking past anything more than OPS. Yadier showed plenty of on base skills at a very early age. Career .335 OBP through age 18-21 in the minors is very good, especially for a catcher.

[Teheran_49]

Of course the perfect scenario is CB becomes a Yadier clone but chances are relatively slim. I don't think CB will ever hit .330 in the big leagues but I do think with his frame that he will hit for more power. I think CB can be a .275/.330/.470 guy on a regular basis which for a catcher with his defensive ability would make him a top tier catcher.

[nsacpi]

If Bethancourt evolves into the Andrelton Simmons of catchers, I'd be pretty happy. Simmons' approach at the plate leaves a lot to be desired, but he is such a brilliant player in the field most of us are willing to put up with his shortcomings as a hitter.

[zitothebrave]

If Bethancourt evolves into the Andrelton Simmons of catchers, I'd be pretty happy. Simmons' approach at the plate leaves a lot to be desired, but he is such a brilliant player in the field most of us are willing to put up with his shortcomings as a hitter.

Problem is that an amazing defensive C doesn't do as much over average as an amazing defensive SS. Simmons saves more runs than Yadier. And I don't think Betancourt is a better defender than Yadier.

[Carp]

Problem is that an amazing defensive C doesn't do as much over average as an amazing defensive SS. Simmons saves more runs than Yadier. And I don't think Betancourt is a better defender than Yadier.



This. All I hear about is how great defensively he is, but how valuable is that really at the catcher position? Is he going to handle the pitchers better than Mac? By all accounts, Mac handles the staff wonderfully. I read an article not too long ago that praised Mac and said how much the staff would miss his presence behind the plate. Can Bethancourt be better than that? I doubt it. We also know that MAc is one of the best in the league at framing pithches. Those seems more important than throwing out runners or blocking balls in the dirt, imo.

[skidlee]

Can everyone just agree the CB has had a great season and his stock has risen in terms of value to the orginazation.

I don't know what he ever will become but I am glad he is turning in a very good season.

[Teheran_49]

Honestly though what are the chances Mac is a Brave next year? I can't see FW giving him more than 3/36 and even then I'd be leery of the deal. I don't know how great a CB/Gattis platoon would be but I would say it wouldn't be any worse than league average. We've got to dump pay roll somehow with all the young guys hitting their arby years either next year or year after. I can't help but to think how bad this BJ Upton deal could hand cuff us. I know it's only one year but man he has done absolutely nothing and I can't think of a FA signing worse than this one.

This site here pretty much sums it up(it's a really cool site for all MLB players salaries):http://baseballplayersalaries.com/players/842_BJ_Upton

[skidlee]

If all the braves offer him was 3/36 no way in heck does Mccann stay. 4-5 years between 50-55 million is the offer that gets Mccann to stay IMO

[cajunrevenge]

I think its 50/50 McCann re-signs. I think he will offer a discount the only question is if it will be enough. I think they will negotiate before free agency officially starts and if a deal isnt done by then the chances drop significantly. I have the feeling a team like Texas is going to make Brian a huge offer.

As far as the payroll goes there are options that would allow the Braves to keep McCann. Every team is getting a 25 million more per year from the new TV deals which and from what we have heard payroll is set at revenue so we can assume 15 million or so of that money goes to payroll. If we dont re-sign Hudson we are looking at 85-90 million in payroll without McCann depending on how some arbitration figures go. I will assume 15 million is what we would pay per year to keep Brian. That would easily fit into the 2014 budget since I dont see anywhere else we would even spend the money. The problem comes in 2015. Kimbrel could get 12+ million in arbitration and Chris Johnson could be at 8 million that year too. We could trade them after the 2014 season to bring the budget in line while keeping McCann. If we cant get Heyward/Upton to sign new deals around this time it might also be an option to trade one of them. No matter how much money we have we arent going to be able to give both of them market deals. Highly unlikely either one of them gets a market deal because we just cant afford 20+ million dollar contracts unless they are Miguel Cabrera kind of good/consistent.

[PawPawMaxwell]

If Kimbrel finishes high on the CYA list how much you think he will get for 14 thru arb??
If Johnson wins the Batting Title how much he think he will get for 14 thru arb?

Hint: See lincicum, papelbon, rivera re: Kimbrel

[Teheran_49]

I know this guy doesn't get mentioned much but is Shae Simmons our next Craig Kimbrel? Shae is like 5'9 but his numbers are staggering. In 48 innings he has 75 k's with a .175 BAA. He's also yet to give up a home run since we've drafted him. Keep an eye on this guy.

[Deester11]

Can everyone just agree the CB has had a great season and his stock has risen in terms of value to the orginazation.

I don't know what he ever will become but I am glad he is turning in a very good season.

Exactly my thoughts! CB has been a favorite of mine for a while now. I'm glad he's realizing his potential and the Braves are patient enough to let him have growing pains.

[cajunrevenge]

If Kimbrel finishes high on the CYA list how much you think he will get for 14 thru arb??
If Johnson wins the Batting Title how much he think he will get for 14 thru arb?

Hint: See lincicum, papelbon, rivera re: Kimbrel

Papelbon got 6.25 arb 1 then 9.35 arb 2 and then 12 mill in arb 3. Assuming he doesnt regress or get injured I would say Kimbrel gets 8/12/16. You could add Kimbrel's ERA from this year and last year and still be lower than Papelbon's going into his first arbitration year. With the new TV deal raising revenue I wouldnt put 20 million his last year as out of the question. Thats why I would see what other teams would offer every offseason and if the right deal comes along trade him.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Papelbon got 6.25 arb 1 then 9.35 arb 2 and then 12 mill in arb 3. Assuming he doesnt regress or get injured I would say Kimbrel gets 8/12/16. You could add Kimbrel's ERA from this year and last year and still be lower than Papelbon's going into his first arbitration year. With the new TV deal raising revenue I wouldnt put 20 million his last year as out of the question. Thats why I would see what other teams would offer every offseason and if the right deal comes along trade him.
Kinda what I was getting at tho you ignored Chris Johnson. Some big decisions coming up for Wren on players who tho very good dont really contribute all that much on the field.

[zitothebrave]

Kinda what I was getting at tho you ignored Chris Johnson. Some big decisions coming up for Wren on players who tho very good dont really contribute all that much on the field.

If Johnson wins the Title he could be an 8M player. If he doesn't it should be a more modest raise.

[PawPawMaxwell]

If Johnson wins the Title he could be an 8M player. If he doesn't it should be a more modest raise.
Probably a little more IMO but the point is he really doesnt contribute to the overall production that that number would indicate.
Player A: 153 hits, 42 xbhs, 10 HR and 63 RBI
Player B: 155 hits, 47 xbhs, 20 HR and 98 RBI

Johnson and Freeman obviously, I would think Johnson could bring something that would help the team a bit more. Not that I am complaining about Chris, he just isnt a foundation type player IMO.

[zitothebrave]

I'm all for trading Chris Johnson. Any team who'll offer us a piece for Johnson (I tihnk a package built around Johnson and Medlen could net us a huge return) I'd gladly listen.

[cajunrevenge]

I have no idea on Johnson because of the batting title issue but without that I would have guessed 5.5 million for him next year. He would still have 2 more years of arbitration because he was a super 2 player. Depending on whats offered for him I would keep him for 2014 but after that he will probably cost more than he is worth. Its a very weak 3B market this offseason which both works in our favor for trading him and makes him hard to replace. I am not ready for the Joe Leonard era to begin just yet.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I have no idea on Johnson because of the batting title issue but without that I would have guessed 5.5 million for him next year. He would still have 2 more years of arbitration because he was a super 2 player. Depending on whats offered for him I would keep him for 2014 but after that he will probably cost more than he is worth. Its a very weak 3B market this offseason which both works in our favor for trading him and makes him hard to replace. I am not ready for the Joe Leonard era to begin just yet.
None of us has any idea but thats what makes it fun. Is there even a market for Chris? What teams need a 3rd sacker? My concerns are that his batting numbers will price him out of reality simply because of the arbitration process in place.

[cajunrevenge]

Well the Yankees, Angels, Dodgers, Indians, and Cardinals look to be in the most need of a 3B in 2014. Except for the dodgers they could all use one of our starters as well if we wanted to expand the deal. Part of the problem is we are a team built to win now so prospects that wont make an immediate impact arent so attractive to the Braves. I think the Braves could make a run at trading for Price this offseason in which case we could trade Johnson to a team for prospects that the Rays like along with a starter like Medlen. We would need to add more to that deal but that would get us 2/3rds of the way there.

[thethe]

Prospect thread.....

[PawPawMaxwell]

Thats what we are talking about. The prospects of the team going foreward.

[cajunrevenge]

I am curious after Hale's start where everyone else would rank him. I know it was only one start against a bad offensive team but he looked really good. With Wood no longer going to be a rookie next year I think Hale could be as high as 4th.

[50PoundHead]

I am curious after Hale's start where everyone else would rank him. I know it was only one start against a bad offensive team but he looked really good. With Wood no longer going to be a rookie next year I think Hale could be as high as 4th.

He's 15th here and I think that's probably a decent assessment. I think he's a solid bet to contribute after his AAA season, but I wondered about him up until this season because of his peripherals. If he can make some adjustments, he could be a fifth starter or a decent bullpen option. Throws harder than I thought he did.

[The Chosen One]

I think we bring back Huddy for depth, Beachy will start as the long man-6th man in the rotation, Hale is the 7th guy.

Maholm is gone, that's a certainty.

But thankfully we've had resources to have depth this year after Huddy and Maholm went down at the same time.

It'd be smart to put Beachy back in the bullpen for a while like we did with Medlen, and when someone gets injured, slot him right back in the rotation.

[cajunrevenge]

Sickels top 20 list is due out in a few days. Gonna take my shot at predicting his list/grades.

1. Lucas Simms B
2. Christian Bethancourt B
3. Mauricio Cabrera B-
4. Jose Peraza B-
5. JR Graham B-
6. Cody Martin B-
7. Jason Hursh B-
8. David Hale B-
9. Aaron Northcraft B-
10. Victor Caratini B-
11. Tommy La Stella C+
12. Joey Terdoslavich C+
13. Carlos Salazar C+
14. Edward Salcedo C+
15. Sean Gilmartin C+
16. Luis Merejo C+
17. Wes Parsons C+
18. Kyle Wren C+
19. Shae Simmons C+
20. Andry Ubiera C+

As Sickels always says the order when you get into the C+ range are really interchangeable. I think there is a lot of room for growth in this list as only a few are likely to hit the majors and the highest ceiling guys were in A ball this year. Will also get a comp pick for McCann so likely 2 first round picks added to this list next year.

[Jay212033]

Sickels top 20 list is due out in a few days. Gonna take my shot at predicting his list/grades.

1. Lucas Simms B
2. Christian Bethancourt B
3. Mauricio Cabrera B-
4. Jose Peraza B-
5. JR Graham B-
6. Cody Martin B-
7. Jason Hursh B-
8. David Hale B-
9. Aaron Northcraft B-
10. Victor Caratini B-
11. Tommy La Stella C+
12. Joey Terdoslavich C+
13. Carlos Salazar C+
14. Edward Salcedo C+
15. Sean Gilmartin C+
16. Luis Merejo C+
17. Wes Parsons C+
18. Kyle Wren C+
19. Shae Simmons C+
20. Andry Ubiera C+

As Sickels always says the order when you get into the C+ range are really interchangeable. I think there is a lot of room for growth in this list as only a few are likely to hit the majors and the highest ceiling guys were in A ball this year. Will also get a comp pick for McCann so likely 2 first round picks added to this list next year.

I think you're off on a lot of those plus I can guarantee that Victor Reyes will be a C+/B- plus Johan Camargo and Alec Grosser will be ranked as well. Sims imo will be a B+/A- he's just that good.

[thethe]

Sickels loves LaStella. I could see him being a B-.

Simms at worst will be a B+ and I think Peraza/Cabrera will be B's.

[cajunrevenge]

Well I agree about LaStella, I thought I had changed him to a B- after I had looked at his last years list for some reference.

[50PoundHead]

Sickels top 20 list is due out in a few days. Gonna take my shot at predicting his list/grades.

1. Lucas Simms B
2. Christian Bethancourt B
3. Mauricio Cabrera B-
4. Jose Peraza B-
5. JR Graham B-
6. Cody Martin B-
7. Jason Hursh B-
8. David Hale B-
9. Aaron Northcraft B-
10. Victor Caratini B-
11. Tommy La Stella C+
12. Joey Terdoslavich C+
13. Carlos Salazar C+
14. Edward Salcedo C+
15. Sean Gilmartin C+
16. Luis Merejo C+
17. Wes Parsons C+
18. Kyle Wren C+
19. Shae Simmons C+
20. Andry Ubiera C+

As Sickels always says the order when you get into the C+ range are really interchangeable. I think there is a lot of room for growth in this list as only a few are likely to hit the majors and the highest ceiling guys were in A ball this year. Will also get a comp pick for McCann so likely 2 first round picks added to this list next year.

I think you are too high on Martin and Northcraft and probably a smidge low on Hursh (but I don't know how Sickels grades 1st year guys). I think Hale is more likely a C+, but you're not far off there. How does Sickels handle injuries? It would be difficult for me to rank Merejo at all and give Graham anything more than a C+ given his status. I think Caratini will be "over-ranked" by a lot of folks because of his walks. I don't put much stock in the ability to walk at the Rookie league level. I agree with Jay that Reyes, Camargo, and Grosser may work their way into the discussion (Reyes for sure), but Camargo may be "under-ranked" a bit because he doesn't walk that much.

[rico43]

A list without Schlosser is an imcomplete list.

[nsacpi]

I would put Schlosser outside the top 20 but in the top 30.

My top 30:

1. Sims
2. Bethancourt
3. Peraza
4. Cabrera
5. Salcedo
6. Hursh
7. Parsons
8. Caratini
9. Graham
10. V Reyes
11. Martin
12. Gilmartin
13. La Stella
14. Northcraft
15. Cunningham
16. Camargo
17. Hale
18. Kubitza
19. Thomas
20. Wren
21. Simmons
22. Elander
24. Lipka
24. de la Rosa
25. C Perez
26. Jaime
27. Harper
28. Schlosser
29. Cornerly
30. E Reyes

[Jay212033]

Here's a Top 30 kid to keep an eye on! I heard he may debut stateside as well!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxrdLQ_hIT4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[ramadon101]

Here's a Top 30 kid to keep an eye on! I heard he may debut stateside as well!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxrdLQ_hIT4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'm excited about him. Another Columbian and he's tall and wiry and can already dial it up to 91-92 with his fastball with good command on both sides of the plate. He really projects well and has clean, repeatable mechanics for someone with so little professional instruction to date. Scouts think he'll be in the mid 90s by the time he matures, barring injury or something else unforeseen in his development.

We also signed his brother who plays SS, I believe.

[Jay212033]

I'm excited about him. Another Columbian and he's tall and wiry and can already dial it up to 91-92 with his fastball with good command on both sides of the plate. He really projects well and has clean, repeatable mechanics for someone with so little professional instruction to date. Scouts think he'll be in the mid 90s by the time he matures, barring injury or something else unforeseen in his development.

We also signed his brother who plays SS, I believe.

Yes if this kid continues to develop properly he could be sitting mid 90 as his body matures. And he's a lefty with good command to boot! Can't wait to see him in person.

[50PoundHead]

I'm excited about him. Another Columbian and he's tall and wiry and can already dial it up to 91-92 with his fastball with good command on both sides of the plate. He really projects well and has clean, repeatable mechanics for someone with so little professional instruction to date. Scouts think he'll be in the mid 90s by the time he matures, barring injury or something else unforeseen in his development.

We also signed his brother who plays SS, I believe.

Sweet. Thanks for posting. You're right about the motion. Nice and easy. Love the orange sweats. Where can I get a pair?

[KB21]

I'm glad I found this page. Lot's of familiar names around here.

Anyway, I can't be the only one that feels like Salcedo is little more than hype at this point. I understand that he's young for his league, but at some point, potential has to become production. He improved his walk rate and cut down on the k rate this past year, but he's still a guy that strikes out a lot with limited power that isn't a very good defender for his position. Overall, this is a poor contact hitter with limited power and an average eye at the plate who is posting sub 0.700 OPS's in his last two stops in the minors.

Honestly, I think Kyle Kubitza is a better overall prospect.

[50PoundHead]

And Kubitza has better contact? Kubitza's walk numbers are really the only area where there is much differential between him and Salcedo offensively.

[rico43]

When does the board feel it is a good time for an updated prospects list? After winter meetings?

[nsacpi]

And the first Braves trade of the off-season is in.......

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-white-sox-jackson-laumann-braves-20131021,0,6512203.story?track=rss

[thethe]

LOL, they bought his son for cash. Nicely done.