Bullpens since the run began

[jcc03004]

What years have we actually had pens that we were confident would do the job? It seems we've had a lot of medoicre to downright frightening pens during this time. To the point that the good ones really stand out. Just curious what other fans thought of
So good pens ...
1993 outside of Stanton in the 2nd half of that year the pen was actually pretty good. Mercker, McMicheal , bedrosian and wohlers were all pretty good
1995 - Pena during the later part, wohlers finally was throwing strikes , McMicheal was pretty good as well as clontz overall not bad
1996 -2002 pretty bad wohlers faltered, Rocker was an idiot and finally some stability with Smoltz.
2003- crazy year that Hammond,Holmes and Remlinger had plus Smoltz in his prime as a closer.
2004-2009
-more horrible pens
2010- today pretty awesome pens .
So there were like 11-12 different years where our pen was horrible. Cost us 2 additional World Series (92,96)

[jcc03004]

Just saying this years pen would look like a godsend in some of the more dreadful years earlier. Overall even with its struggles this is not a bad bullpen.

[jcc03004]

Bringing in Wagner seemed to change everything. He mentored both kimbrel and venters.

[CyYoung31]

That 2010 team was absolutely stacked in the pen, and my favorite iteration.

2004 and 2009 were both really good pens.

[Carp]

2000-2004 was actually a very good string of BPs. Lightenberg, Remlinger, Hammond, Holmes, Smoltz, Rocker (before he went full retard), Gryboski, Mullholland, etc. Pretty decent results over that span

[CyYoung31]

And let's not forget the great Antonio Alfonseca.

[MadduxFanII]

2002 was the bat**** crazy Hammond-Holmes Lazarus Tour. 2003 was the Year of Roberto, which was...less good.

[rico43]

Nobody's mentioned Remlinger, the best middle/setup they've ever had because he was indestructable.


1999: 73 G, 10-1, 2.37, 1 save, 2.4 WAR!
2000: 71 G, 5-3, 3.47, 12 saves
2001: 74 G, 3-3, 2.76, 1 save, 11.2 K/9
2002: 73 G, 7-3, 1.99, All-Star selection
He went to Cubs as FA, came back to close out career in '06, but was out bullets:
2006: 36 G, 2-4, 4.03, 2 saves
ATL: 327 G, 27-14, 16 saves, 2.74 ERA, 322 IP, 263 H, 132 BB, 334 K, 7.8 cumulative WAR

Argument for him being the best forgotten Brave?

[Dalyn]

I miss Remlinger. So much fun to watch.

[jcc03004]

That 2010 team was absolutely stacked in the pen, and my favorite iteration.

2004 and 2009 were both really good pens.

Yah in 2016 towards the end you had Wagner kimbrel venters was EOF there to I forget? Saito was awfully good to
Off topic does bethancourt stay once gattis is healthy? I hope so ...

[thethe]

2004 pen was sick. Juan Cruz was a stud for us. I thought he was going to be a really big time pitcher after that year. He had all the pitches.

[rico43]

Yah in 2016 towards the end you had Wagner kimbrel venters was EOF there to I forget? Saito was awfully good to
Off topic does bethancourt stay once gattis is healthy? I hope so ...

Said it again tonight: no catching controversy. Bethancourt goes to Gwinnett to play every day. And that's as it should be. He's no bat off the bench.

You weren't thinking about '06 -- that was a below .500 team that finished 18 behind the Mets. That bullpen was a tire fire that included Wickman, Ken Ray, Paronto, Jorge Sosa, and the bright spot: Oscar (9-1) Villareal.
Saito was 2010. That was a better season.

[Knucksie]

The bullpen's been an Achille's Heel for most of the time since the 80's.

First, a little history for those who haven't witnessed the changes. The roles were different. Bruce Sutter was the elite in the game. However, it must be understood that a "closer," as we understand it now, was for the 9th inning. Not so in previous eras. Starters actually used to complete games. Quaint concept, but in the game that they didn't, the "closers" could conceivably go the last 3. The new paradigm of starter 6 with 7th, 8th and closer is a relatively new idea, probably pushed through the players' union. Less work for more money!

Getting back to the Braves....

Ted Turner fashioned himself as sort of a Steinbrenner of the South. He didn't really know how to be an owner, except for the examples set. "Steinbrenner fired Billy Martin multiple times, so I'll fire Dave Bristol and Bobby Cox!" "Steinbrenner signed high profile free agents, so I'll sign the game's best closer, Bruce Sutter!" Never mind that they had, on roster, the pitcher who would be the game's best closer (albeit with the Phillies) in Steve Bedrosian. That led to a series of miscues. Sutter would be signed, and he had Bell's Palsy and at least one other ailment. Hardly any return on investment. Bedrosian would be converted into a starter. That didn't pan out, and he would be shipped to the Phillies for Ozzie Virgil and Pete Smith. Considering the fact that Bedrosian won a Cy Young as a reliever, and there haven't been that many, the rest of you can decide on the ultimate fate of that transaction.

Yes, we've discussed Brad Komminsk enough times, but the uncertainty of the closer role, during the same era, cause a similar and enormous ripple effect. Stepping back for a moment, the Braves really had no games to save during the second half of the 80's. They were second division for a half decade, and that's being charitable. This led to Bobby Cox making quick fix trades, throwing a bone to the fans or blind faith that a "young arm" just might make it. Think of Boever the Saver. Granted, at the time it didn't seem like a bad move, but the PR Department was desperate to promote any move as hope for the future. That carried on into the early 90's, and the "Young Guns" campaign wasn't all just blowing smoke, since Glavine and Smoltz were part of that contigent.

The early 90's brought trades to bring in Al Pena. Great as setup man, but not settle as closer. In all fairness, the strikeout with changeup on Van Slyke was a great moment in Braves history. During this period, there was a prediliction toward retreats. Jeff Reardon, who once was among the best in the game, was brought in, and (memory fails) but may have blown at least 2 saves vs. Blue Jays in WS. This same formula was repeated with Bryan Harvey, Gregg Olson and at least one other, whose name escapes me now.

Forget the marginal major leaguers. McMichael, Clontz, Ligtenberg, Cunnane and maybe one other, were all clowns. None of them belonged on a major league roster, except in post-expansion era.

Fast forward, we heard more than enough griping about Reitsma and Kolb over at Scout, so enough said.

Meantime, there was elite closing during that period of time. That included Wohlers, pre-meltdown Rocker and Smoltz. Later, Wagner was at that same level, but his retirement coincided with Bobby's. As already mentioned, he was an excellent mentor for Kimbrel and Venters.

Still, my personal opinion is that the relative value is overrated. We're talking about coming in for one inning with a lead. If you examine that stats of before when this role became more defined, teams held leads and one game as much the same rate as now. So, yeah, Kimbrel is great, but he might not be as valuable, in the grand scheme, as many of you would like to believe. Walden's done it before, and could be effective for a championship-caliber team.

To step back for moment, yes, there was lightning in a bottle captured with Holmes, Hammond, Remlinger and Rocker...but did it make the team bettter? That's the question that needs to be answered. Whenever there's been an attempt to address a facet of the club - the pen, in this instance - there's been other roster problems to address.

[TomahawkCult]

Whoa. "Boever the Saver," I can still hear Skip saying that. I remember Charlie "Large Thing" Kerfeld being the closer for just a little while in 1990.

Thanks for the memory jog!

[The Chosen One]

2003 pen outside of Smoltz was awful.

Holmes was injured. Blowberto. Ray king. Gryboski was solid.

[The Chosen One]

I remember when Juan Cruz was the next Pedro... before Julio.

[AerchAngel]

I rather have Kolb, Wickman and Reitsma.

Message board would overload and fun.

Klob, Fat Man and Reeksma.

[The Chosen One]

Nobody's mentioned Remlinger, the best middle/setup they've ever had because he was indestructable.


1999: 73 G, 10-1, 2.37, 1 save, 2.4 WAR!
2000: 71 G, 5-3, 3.47, 12 saves
2001: 74 G, 3-3, 2.76, 1 save, 11.2 K/9
2002: 73 G, 7-3, 1.99, All-Star selection
He went to Cubs as FA, came back to close out career in '06, but was out bullets:
2006: 36 G, 2-4, 4.03, 2 saves
ATL: 327 G, 27-14, 16 saves, 2.74 ERA, 322 IP, 263 H, 132 BB, 334 K, 7.8 cumulative WAR

Argument for him being the best forgotten Brave?

I can never forget that Remlinger was actually more effective against righties than lefties and Bobby still used him as a loogy.

[Julio3000]

Remlinger was one of my all-time favorite Braves. I loved that '02 'pen. I always liked Seanez, too.

The 2010 was my favorite, though. Moylan, Venters, EOF, Kimbrel, Wagner, Saito, even Kyle Farnsworth. Plus bonus C-Mart.

[The Chosen One]

John Foster being our only lefty in 2005... throwing 88mph MAX. I remember I used to cringe when Bobby would use him as a loogy against Ryan Howard.

[AerchAngel]

Klob and Reeksma were so bad, they have a link (http://atlanta.sbnation.com/atlanta-braves/2011/1/29/1962964/ranking-the-atlanta-braves-closers-since-1991)to it.

[AerchAngel]

I can never forget that Remlinger was actually more effective against righties than lefties and Bobby still used him as a loogy.

Bobby abused relievers and when I said it on Scout, I was warned.

[The Chosen One]

Remlinger was one of my all-time favorite Braves. I loved that '02 'pen. I always liked Seanez, too.

The 2010 was my favorite, though. Moylan, Venters, EOF, Kimbrel, Wagner, Saito, even Kyle Farnsworth. Plus bonus C-Mart.

2012 for me.

Kimbrel
Venters
EoF
Avilan
Martinez
Moylan
Durbin/Batista

We even had Medlen in there for a while.

[The Chosen One]

Klob like Wickman was an a hole. Retisma just struggled and overused.

[CyYoung31]

Remlinger was one of my all-time favorite Braves. I loved that '02 'pen. I always liked Seanez, too.

The 2010 was my favorite, though. Moylan, Venters, EOF, Kimbrel, Wagner, Saito, even Kyle Farnsworth. Plus bonus C-Mart.

This. I was just about to list them all. And to think, we had Soriano before the season too and then traded him for Jesse Chavez. That would have been insane.

Yeah, we had the big 3 plus Wagner and other studs in that 2010 pen. They didn't give up a run in the NLDS that year IIRC.

[CyYoung31]

Just to put things in perspective, the 2010 Braves bullpen had the big 3 (Kimbrel, Venters, O'Flaherty) and none of them were late inning guys.

[AerchAngel]

Just to put things in perspective, the 2010 Braves bullpen had the big 3 (Kimbrel, Venters, O'Flaherty) and none of them were late inning guys.

Scary

[AerchAngel]

Klob like Wickman was an a hole. Retisma just struggled and overused.

<cough>

you know why

LOL!

[CyYoung31]

2012 for me.

Kimbrel
Venters
EoF
Avilan
Martinez
Moylan
Durbin/Batista

We even had Medlen in there for a while.

Durbin was lucky and not that great. Moylan missed almost the entire year. Venters missed most of the year, and was terrible because he was hurt.

No way. The 2010 teams was lined from top to bottom with absolute studs. Healthy studs at that.

[Knucksie]

I always liked Seanez, too.

Just reminded me of back when Rich Eisen was on ESPN SportsCenter. "This is Seanez!"