Wren's Biggest FAIL of 2014 season

[rico43]

The radio guys late last night finally cut to the chase about one of this year's biggest problems. The Braves bench (non-starters) have driven in a total of EIGHT runs all season. That's everybody. As a team that in past years enjoyed the production of Julio Franco, Brooks Conrad, hell go all the way back to Francisco Cabrera, this would point to Wren's biggest FAIL this year.

That said, time's a wasting to get red-hot Terdoslavich up here. Five homers in his last six games in a year where nobody in the Braves' system is hitting the long ball. Saturday he had four hits. A red-hot switch hitter; think maybe he might be a slight upgrade?

[NinersSBChamps]

Yeah I am really disappointed in the lack of hitting Doumit has shown this season. I absolutely loved the trade, but he is a guy who needs more regular at bats.

A lot of us were talking about Wren not addressing the bench all spring, but apparently he didn't think it was important.

[GovClintonTyree]

I am less inclined to nitpick every single in-game decision that Fredi makes and more inclined to question trends.

And he just hasn't used his bench enough this year. Doumit can hit, but nobody can stay sharp with 10 at bats a month.

[zitothebrave]

I think the only bench mistake going into the season was Schafer over Cunningham.

Doumit has sucked but that happens with bench players. Sometimes you get someone who's good and they have a ****ty year, sometimes you get a turd who is hot.

[GovClintonTyree]

By the way, the bench is pretty good, now. Lots of good pieces and versatility. I'd sit Heyward against tough lefties and BJ against all righties, split about 30% of 3B at bats to other than CJ, Laird every fifth day, straight platoon 2B, and rest Simmons a little more.

I'd also like to bring up The Deuce and drop BJ, but that ain't happening. Have to wait another week.

[zitothebrave]

I would kcik anyone in the nuts who advocates platooning Heyward. In no shape, way or form does benching Heyward make sense. I'm already having to restrain myself because of your straight platoon at 2B.

[Dalyn]

I think the only bench mistake going into the season was Schafer over Cunningham.

Doumit has sucked but that happens with bench players. Sometimes you get someone who's good and they have a ****ty year, sometimes you get a turd who is hot.

Cunningham was an easy choice over Schafer. I'll never understand that.

[rico43]

By the way, the bench is pretty good, now. Lots of good pieces and versatility. I'd sit Heyward against tough lefties and BJ against all righties, split about 30% of 3B at bats to other than CJ, Laird every fifth day, straight platoon 2B, and rest Simmons a little more.

I'd also like to bring up The Deuce and drop BJ, but that ain't happening. Have to wait another week.

Love that nickname for JoeT. Best laugh I've had all weekend. Sorry, I don't LOL.

[Dalyn]

Doumit is a huge disappointment. I thought he would be much better. Our bench has been pretty weak since the end of '10. It sucks. 2010...man, that was a fun bench to watch.

[Dalyn]

Late/Close 2010 -

Hinske: .323 .436 .677 1.113

Conrad: .289 .308 .737 1.045

:tchop:

[rico43]

By the way, the bench is pretty good, now. Lots of good pieces and versatility. I'd sit Heyward against tough lefties and BJ against all righties, split about 30% of 3B at bats to other than CJ, Laird every fifth day, straight platoon 2B, and rest Simmons a little more.

I'd also like to bring up The Deuce and drop BJ, but that ain't happening. Have to wait another week.

Gov., you sure you're watching this year's team. The only thing positive off the bench this year were Schafer's stolen bases. Doumit is 10-55 with 4 RBIs; Gattis is 2-8 with 2 RBIs; BJ 1-1!; Pena is 2-10, 0 RBI; Schafer was just 4-25, 0 RBIs; Laird 0-5; Uggla was 0-10; the other two RBIs were due to hits by non-starting pitchers!

[bravesnumberone]

The problem with Doumit is when he does start, Fredi always puts Heyward on the bench and leaves BJ in.

The ball has really been dropped on the bench.

[GovClintonTyree]

Gov., you sure you're watching this year's team. The only thing positive off the bench this year were Schafer's stolen bases. Doumit is 10-55 with 4 RBIs; Gattis is 2-8 with 2 RBIs; BJ 1-1!; Pena is 2-10, 0 RBI; Schafer was just 4-25, 0 RBIs; Laird 0-5; Uggla was 0-10; the other two RBIs were due to hits by non-starting pitchers!

No, what I'm saying is that the adjustments have been made. Schafer and Uggla are gone. Bonifacio is a terrific bench piece and Gosselin is good. Laird is a pretty good backup and Pena is adequate. If you believe, as I do, that Doumit is a good hitter who has been underutilized and lost his stroke as a result, then it's a pretty good bench, 1-5.

As for my suggested playing time adjustments, I am not necessarily married to the suggestions regarding Heyward and LaStella, I'm just trying to get the bench more involved, and those seemed to be good starting points.

[GovClintonTyree]

Love that nickname for JoeT. Best laugh I've had all weekend. Sorry, I don't LOL.

I don't see how he can have another. :)

[GovClintonTyree]

I would kcik anyone in the nuts who advocates platooning Heyward. In no shape, way or form does benching Heyward make sense. I'm already having to restrain myself because of your straight platoon at 2B.
Sorry. See clarification above. I love Heyward and LaStella. Where do you get Doumit and Gosselin some at bats? That's all I'm driving at.

[CyYoung31]

I am less inclined to nitpick every single in-game decision that Fredi makes and more inclined to question trends.

And he just hasn't used his bench enough this year. Doumit can hit, but nobody can stay sharp with 10 at bats a month.

This. This is something I started noticing more toward the middle of the season. The reserves aren't getting enough reps and by extension I'm sure the regulars are more fatigued than usual. Bobby always managed to have good benches because he made sure to give each of them a start at least once a week. Fredi used to be that way too up until this year. Maybe he just has no confidence in any of those guys?

[Bdawg2309]

I would kcik anyone in the nuts who advocates platooning Heyward. In no shape, way or form does benching Heyward make sense. I'm already having to restrain myself because of your straight platoon at 2B.

well when he's batting .164 and has a .243 OBP vs lefties.........

[50PoundHead]

I think the only bench mistake going into the season was Schafer over Cunningham.

Doumit has sucked but that happens with bench players. Sometimes you get someone who's good and they have a ****ty year, sometimes you get a turd who is hot.

Small sample size and all, but Schafer has an .818 OPS since going to Minnesota, where he's playing almost every day. He may not be made for the bench, where you have to find ways to keep sharp (and Doumit is also an example of how a decent player can look futile with sporadic action), but he's a guy who has to play more than he did. He's still second on the team in SBs even though he's not here and he'll probably have over 30 by the end of the season. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Schafer should have necessarily played more in Atlanta, but I don't see how Cunningham would have made any difference.

[Tapate50]

Said since early in the year our likely best bench pieces were toiling down in AAA.

[Ampere]

well when he's batting .164 and has a .243 OBP vs lefties.........

Last year he hit .264/.347/.455 vs lefties. This year he accumulated a lot of at bats against lefties in April when he was slumping but has done better against them the past couple of months (aside from Chapman, of course). It would be a mistake to sit him against lefties.

[Hulavol]

I don't see how he can have another. :)

Pure gold!

[Dalyn]

Small sample size and all, but Schafer has an .818 OPS since going to Minnesota, where he's playing almost every day. He may not be made for the bench, where you have to find ways to keep sharp (and Doumit is also an example of how a decent player can look futile with sporadic action), but he's a guy who has to play more than he did. He's still second on the team in SBs even though he's not here and he'll probably have over 30 by the end of the season. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Schafer should have necessarily played more in Atlanta, but I don't see how Cunningham would have made any difference.

.163 .256 .213 .468

That's what he did in Atlanta this year. No way Cunningham wouldn't have been a huge improvement. Might've even performed well enough to get BJ some time off. As bad as BJ sucked, he didn't suck as much as his replacement on the active roster. That hurt.

[50PoundHead]

I think Schafer is a guy who has to play with some regularity to perform well. He did it in Atlanta before getting injured in 2013 and he's doing it now in Minnesota. He's no world-beater, but he's a better player than what he showed this year for the Braves.

Fredi found ways to incorporate both Pena and Schafer in the line-up effectively in 2013, but he did an about-face this year and has pretty much went with a set line-up with little slotting of reserves until the past couple of weeks. If I have any beef with Gonzalez this year, it is that departure from a pattern that worked well for the team last year.

[Hawk]

I think Schafer is a guy who has to play with some regularity to perform well. He did it in Atlanta before getting injured in 2013 and he's doing it now in Minnesota. He's no world-beater, but he's a better player than what he showed this year for the Braves.

Fredi found ways to incorporate both Pena and Schafer in the line-up effectively in 2013, but he did an about-face this year and has pretty much went with a set line-up with little slotting of reserves until the past couple of weeks. If I have any beef with Gonzalez this year, it is that departure from a pattern that worked well for the team last year.


Well put. And, IMO, it's not even regularity that guys like Schafer/Doumit need(ed) but semi-regularity.

A lot of posters want to dump on Schafer, particularly, but his skillset is really perfect for a PH/defensive replacement/pinch runner/4th OF and it doesn't surprise me to see him succeeding in Minnesota.

Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned Bobby's plus ability at utilizing his bench and making all of his players feel useful -- and it always seemed like production came around to match the (sometimes confounding) amount of playing time he gave his bench bats.

Between poor bench management and the desecration of the bullpen, it's hard to find anything much to like about Fredi nowadays aside from the whole 'he keeps an even keel' proposition.

[Dalyn]

Well put. And, IMO, it's not even regularity that guys like Schafer/Doumit need(ed) but semi-regularity.

A lot of posters want to dump on Schafer, particularly, but his skillset is really perfect for a PH/defensive replacement/pinch runner/4th OF and it doesn't surprise me to see him succeeding in Minnesota.


Schafer is a decent 5th outfielder used mainly for running and defense and bunting. But there is no room for such a player on a bad bench.

[Dalyn]

Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned Bobby's plus ability at utilizing his bench and making all of his players feel useful -- and it always seemed like production came around to match the (sometimes confounding) amount of playing time he gave his bench bats.

Between poor bench management and the desecration of the bullpen, it's hard to find anything much to like about Fredi nowadays aside from the whole 'he keeps an even keel' proposition.

I agree with this, though I will say that Fredi's whole "even keel" thing seems more and more like a deer caught in the headlights.

Many of us have complained about not giving time off to Freeman and CJ. He did the same thing to both last year, that's why CJ couldn't win the batting title. He was exhausted in September. That's also why I think Fredi has a below .500 record in September. He exhausts his starters during the season and has a freezing cold bench he has to fall back on when they can't even walk at the end of the year.

[gilesfan]

By the way, the bench is pretty good, now. Lots of good pieces and versatility. I'd sit Heyward against tough lefties and BJ against all righties, split about 30% of 3B at bats to other than CJ, Laird every fifth day, straight platoon 2B, and rest Simmons a little more.

I'd also like to bring up The Deuce and drop BJ, but that ain't happening. Have to wait another week.

The bench is terrible, what are you talking about?

[Hawk]

Schafer is a decent 5th outfielder used mainly for running and defense and bunting. But there is no room for such a player on a bad bench.

Truth -- and I should add that my defense of Schafer does not mean that I believe the Braves should've retained him. Given the circumstances, it was time for him to go (both to 'improve' the bench and to allow him a shot at continuing his career in ... greener pastures.)

That being said, I like to see late season benches for teams in contention be comprised primarily of veterans/character types (like Jason Giambi, Michael Young) that wear the grizzled cachet well. Of course, they need to still be able to perform, too. Atlanta doesn't have anybody like that now, and I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the Braves best benches in recent years had guys like Eric Hinske/David Ross/Matt Diaz/Reed Johnson commanding them.

[VirginiaBrave]

Not bringing Hudson back. That is all.

[depley]

I am less inclined to nitpick every single in-game decision that Fredi makes and more inclined to question trends.

And he just hasn't used his bench enough this year. Doumit can hit, but nobody can stay sharp with 10 at bats a month.

For all the Jordan Schafer haters this also holds true. He had 93 plate appearances in 63 games as a brave. As a Twin he has had 66 PA in 18 games. Since going to Minnesota he has hit .302 with a .403 OB percentage and stolen 8 bases. The only month he had any ab to speak of while here was June, which of course was his best month as a brave in 2014. Other than that he had no more than 17 at bats in any month.
A great manager puts players in a position to succeed, bad managers do not........

[VirginiaBrave]

For all the Jordan Schafer haters this also holds true. He had 93 plate appearances in 63 games as a brave. As a Twin he has had 66 PA in 18 games. Since going to Minnesota he has hit .302 with a .403 OB percentage and stolen 8 bases. The only month he had any ab to speak of while here was June, which of course was his best month as a brave in 2014. Other than that he had no more than 17 at bats in any month.
A great manager puts players in a position to succeed, bad managers do not........
Don't blame Schafer's failure to succeed in Atl on the manager. He wasn't going to play in front of BJ at $75 million and he was never gonna play the corners so the ab's he needs weren't there.

[depley]

Don't blame Schafer's failure to succeed in Atl on the manager. He wasn't going to play in front of BJ at $75 million and he was never gonna play the corners so the ab's he needs weren't there.

Who makes out the lineup? The manager. You keep running out a player based on his salary you end up with what you get, last year BJ and Uggla, this year BJ.

[VirginiaBrave]

Who makes out the lineup? The manager. You keep running out a player based on his salary you end up with what you get, last year BJ and Uggla, this year BJ.

You seriously believe Fredi would bench a $75 million dollar player? The FO wouldn't allow it. No matter how bad he has been. Of the two Frank deserves to go first, he shops for the groceries after all.

[zitothebrave]

For all the Jordan Schafer haters this also holds true. He had 93 plate appearances in 63 games as a brave. As a Twin he has had 66 PA in 18 games. Since going to Minnesota he has hit .302 with a .403 OB percentage and stolen 8 bases. The only month he had any ab to speak of while here was June, which of course was his best month as a brave in 2014. Other than that he had no more than 17 at bats in any month.
A great manager puts players in a position to succeed, bad managers do not........

Schafer isn't a good baseball player. Not bad against RHP, total ass against LHP. Only way we can find any value for him is to super strict platoon him with BJ.

[Dalyn]

You seriously believe Fredi would bench a $75 million dollar player? The FO wouldn't allow it. No matter how bad he has been. Of the two Frank deserves to go first, he shops for the groceries after all.

He did it last year.