Russell Rant

[BedellBrave]

Have at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kvzamjQW9M#t=371

[The Chosen One]

Interesting rant, but one thing to note is that Russell is a true extrovert. Why is this important? The biggest numbers of porn viewers are introverts who don't get any action. Those loners are the ones that go to the Adult Entertainment EXPOS and send the fan mail, etc. They've existed (introvert loners) before porn was this mainstream and widely available, it just so happens that because of the advances of the internet they can get access to porn without having to drive to the local adult novelty store. Russell also happened to be married to one of the prettiest/most talented woman in the world for a few years, who's way out of his league. So I guess there was his trophy right there.

Russell is someone who could pick up women because of his outgoing extroverted personality, so he doesn't really need porn. And he has the money as well (not implying he can buy prostitutes, but his status symbol as a celebrity is a turn on for some of the club/bar scene women).

It's also interesting that he makes it seem like porn only objectifies women. Women think about sex as much as men do, talk about guys as sexual objects to their girlfriends just like a lot of guys do the same with their buddies.

As for my own personal experience, I have no shame in admitting I have a rather large porn collection downloaded from the internet. It only is used maybe once a day for a few minutes if that. Don't even think I've watched most of them to be honest, I just get caught up in the "ohhhh it's the internet + free = download download download download" frenzy. It's just THAT easily accessible. Just an extension of when I eat out somewhere, buy more food. Or when I go shopping, oh let me buy that too.

I don't have a particular problem going out and meeting women. I consider myself an extroverted introvert. I can be extroverted but prefer to be introverted. I just am so busy with work, projects, and hobbies that I don't have time to really go out and meet and spend money (unfortunately most of my generation likes to spend lots of money getting to know each other instead of simple things like taking a walk in the park and chatting on a bench). Plus, where I live there aren't many women who can hold a good conversation that are single. It doesn't consume or alter my social life how I interact with women, or how I treat women that I'm dating. I still believe in stuff like chivalry and what not. Porn for me, is just there to satisfy my biological fix for a few minutes a day. Other than that, it doesn't really even cross my mind.

I mean yes in my head I check out other women I see walking around in public. My coworker on the other hand is the very thing Russell is describing. Macho man testosterone filled wants to sleep with anything that moves. Has standards, then lower standards. I work at a country club where there's quite a bit of wealthy women in their 30's and 40's whom are still very much attractive. If they walk in and talk to us, the difference between me and my coworker is, my eyeballs can stay at eye level and have a conversation, while his will scan up and down like a terminator robot in the middle of a conversation.

I can admire their beauty to myself, without looking like a hound dog.

[Krgrecw]

Didn't he go to rehab for a sex addiction?

[yeezus]

Didn't he go to rehab for a sex addiction?

lol "sex addiction."
just like tiger woods was addicted to sex.
there's a good south park episode about it.

[gilesfan]

Who is this guy?

Why does his opinion matter?

[BedellBrave]

Interesting rant, but one thing to note is that Russell is a true extrovert. Why is this important? The biggest numbers of porn viewers are introverts who don't get any action. Those loners are the ones that go to the Adult Entertainment EXPOS and send the fan mail, etc. They've existed (introvert loners) before porn was this mainstream and widely available, it just so happens that because of the advances of the internet they can get access to porn without having to drive to the local adult novelty store. Russell also happened to be married to one of the prettiest/most talented woman in the world for a few years, who's way out of his league. So I guess there was his trophy right there.

Russell is someone who could pick up women because of his outgoing extroverted personality, so he doesn't really need porn. And he has the money as well (not implying he can buy prostitutes, but his status symbol as a celebrity is a turn on for some of the club/bar scene women).

It's also interesting that he makes it seem like porn only objectifies women. Women think about sex as much as men do, talk about guys as sexual objects to their girlfriends just like a lot of guys do the same with their buddies.

As for my own personal experience, I have no shame in admitting I have a rather large porn collection downloaded from the internet. It only is used maybe once a day for a few minutes if that. Don't even think I've watched most of them to be honest, I just get caught up in the "ohhhh it's the internet + free = download download download download" frenzy. It's just THAT easily accessible. Just an extension of when I eat out somewhere, buy more food. Or when I go shopping, oh let me buy that too.

I don't have a particular problem going out and meeting women. I consider myself an extroverted introvert. I can be extroverted but prefer to be introverted. I just am so busy with work, projects, and hobbies that I don't have time to really go out and meet and spend money (unfortunately most of my generation likes to spend lots of money getting to know each other instead of simple things like taking a walk in the park and chatting on a bench). Plus, where I live there aren't many women who can hold a good conversation that are single. It doesn't consume or alter my social life how I interact with women, or how I treat women that I'm dating. I still believe in stuff like chivalry and what not. Porn for me, is just there to satisfy my biological fix for a few minutes a day. Other than that, it doesn't really even cross my mind.

I mean yes in my head I check out other women I see walking around in public. My coworker on the other hand is the very thing Russell is describing. Macho man testosterone filled wants to sleep with anything that moves. Has standards, then lower standards. I work at a country club where there's quite a bit of wealthy women in their 30's and 40's whom are still very much attractive. If they walk in and talk to us, the difference between me and my coworker is, my eyeballs can stay at eye level and have a conversation, while his will scan up and down like a terminator robot in the middle of a conversation.

I can admire their beauty to myself, without looking like a hound dog.


Did you watch the same video I did? Dude explicitly addressed that and don't know how many times he mentioned 50 Shades of Grey - suffice it to say, more than once.

And to say it doesn't cross your mind? Be honest with yourself. It will most certainly affect your thoughts with your future spouse.

[BedellBrave]

Who is this guy?

Why does his opinion matter?


So you're into porn?

[The Chosen One]

Did you watch the same video I did? Dude explicitly addressed that and don't know how many times he mentioned 50 Shades of Grey - suffice it to say, more than once.

And to say it doesn't cross your mind? Be honest with yourself. It will most certainly affect your thoughts with your future spouse.

Yes it doesn't. I don't think about porn at wotk or when I'm teaching/playing tennis.

However when teaching downtown at the main public park I'm literally surrounded by gorgeous women in running attire everywhere. It's crazy for me not to take a look everynow and then and admire the surroundings.

But it doesn't effect my personal or social relationships with other women.

[Gary82]

Who is this guy?

Why does his opinion matter?

Do you live under a rock?

[Oklahomahawk]

Do you live under a rock?

If he did I'd be surprised if he didn't know Russell Brand.

[BedellBrave]

In my line of work, I see a lot of heartache and brokenness and hurt. Porn has a prominent role in much of that. His rant resonated. And he and others make underscore something very scary - we've now idea where the pervasiveness of porn is going to take us as a culture. My only guess - nowhere good.

[yeezus]

lol there is nothing wrong with porn for a huge majority of people who watch it.
i love doomsday talk from older people, though.

[BedellBrave]

And I love the naive talk of kids who love their porn.

[Hawk]

lol there is nothing wrong with porn for a huge majority of people who watch it.
i love doomsday talk from older people, though.

Have you heard of NoFap?

http://www.nofap.com/
http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/

Just some food for thought.

[yeezus]

Have you heard of NoFap?

http://www.nofap.com/
http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/

Just some food for thought.

I'm sure some people struggle with it; most things in life, there's always a percentage of people who abuse things that can otherwise be good, or at least inconsequential.
It does make me laugh to see people say "fap" seriously so much. Solid colloquial.

[Hawk]

Without getting into much detail, I've been practicing sexual taoism for the past 6 months. The effects have been nothing short of profound, but I'd lying if I said that certain aspects hadn't been agonizing.

I challenge anybody who doesn't think that porn is addictive to try take a break from it -- and masturbation -- for one month.

[Hawk]

I'm sure some people struggle with it; most things in life, there's always a percentage of people who abuse things that can otherwise be good, or at least inconsequential.
It does make me laugh to see people say "fap" seriously so much. Solid colloquial.

(The point was that NoFap on Reddit is clearly not 'old people'.)

Pornography is a little different, I think. Thanks to the Internet it's readily available to a wide ranging demographic than can consume it with no real outward effect (unlike food, drugs, alcohol, and other things which are typically abused). You just can't accurately gauge the effects it has on an individual biologically or mentally. I don't believe pornography is inherently bad, but I do think people should be better informed of the risks.

[yeezus]

Without getting into much detail, I've been practicing sexual taoism for the past 6 months. The effects have been nothing short of profound, but I'd lying if I said that certain aspects hadn't been agonizing.

I challenge anybody who doesn't think that porn is addictive to try take a break from it -- and masturbation -- for one month.

I probably watch porn a couple of times a month. Anything can be addictive, including porn - I wouldn't say otherwise. I don't think that necessarily makes porn bad.

[yeezus]

The point was that NoFap on Reddit is clearly not 'old people'.

Pornography is a little different, I think. Thanks to the Internet it's readily available to a wide ranging demographic than can consume it with no real outward effect (unlike food, drugs, alcohol, and other things which are typically abused). You just can't accurately gauge the effects it has on an individual biologically or mentally. I don't believe pornography is inherently bad, but I do think people should be better informed of the risks.

Ok, but I think anything can have an effect on someone's mind. Watching Disney movies about princesses can have a harmful effect on someone's attitudes or thoughts towards relationships. The mind is crazy that way; it's an extremely powerful thing.

I have nothing against people that want to abstain from it, I definitely see how it could help some people in some ways. Hell, I'll probably do it at some point in my life.

[Hawk]

I probably watch porn a couple of times a month. Anything can be addictive, including porn - I wouldn't say otherwise. I don't think that necessarily makes porn bad.

Yup -- in China, Korea, and Japan (at least), overuse of the Internet is considered a clinical addiction.

[Hawk]

Ok, but I think anything can have an effect on someone's mind. Watching Disney movies about princesses can have a harmful effect on someone's attitudes or thoughts towards relationships. The mind is crazy that way; it's an extremely powerful thing.

Watching people **** on camera is a little different, that you must concede.

[Hawk]

I probably watch porn a couple of times a month.

Is your girlfriend cool with it? Does she watch with you, or partake on her own?

[yeezus]

Is your girlfriend cool with it? Does she watch with you, or partake on her own?

She doesn't care and understands it's pretty common. And again, I probably spend 20 minutes total a month watching porn. It just never mattered, I suppose. We've never actually watched together, though we talked about it. She doesn't, as far as I know. She tells me she doesn't.


Watching people **** on camera is a little different, that you must concede.

Of course, it's very different. I guess my point was just anything can negative effects on people. Violence on TV, lots of things.

[Hawk]

Of course, it's very different. I guess my point was just anything can negative effects on people. Violence on TV, lots of things.

I think that's obvious.

What's more intriguing to me is determining the things that should be regulated for their adverse effects and to what degree. Violent TV and video games, for example. And shouldn't that be a parental prerogative, anyways?

When would you be okay with a child beginning to watch porn? The law says 18 -- but we can have sex much earlier (in some states).

How can we possibly predict when a kid becomes sexually aware? Or an adult, even?

Again, just food for thought.

[yeezus]

Without getting into much detail, I've been practicing sexual taoism for the past 6 months. The effects have been nothing short of profound, but I'd lying if I said that certain aspects hadn't been agonizing.

I challenge anybody who doesn't think that porn is addictive to try take a break from it -- and masturbation -- for one month.

Does this mean you haven't been having sex, by the way?

[yeezus]

I think that's obvious.

What's more intriguing to me is determining the things that should be regulated for their adverse effects and to what degree. Violent TV and video games, for example. And shouldn't that be a parental prerogative, anyways?

When would you be okay with a child beginning to watch porn? The law says 18 -- but we can have sex much earlier (in some states).

How can we possibly predict when a kid becomes sexually aware? Or an adult, even?

Again, just food for thought.

Of course it should be a parental prerogative; so should internet usage and websites being visited. I don't see how porn is drastically different than a number of other things out there.
I really don't know when I'd be ok with a child beginning too watch porn. Not until at least teens, probably.
We can't predict that stuff.

[Hawk]

She doesn't care and understands it's pretty common. And again, I probably spend 20 minutes total a month watching porn. It just never mattered, I suppose. We've never actually watched together, though we talked about it. She doesn't, as far as I know. She tells me she doesn't.

I wish Southern girls were as understanding, or, at least, just not so ****ing crazy.

[yeezus]

I wish Southern girls were as understanding, or, at least, just not so ****ing crazy.

ooooh she's ****ing crazy, just in a different way.
no doubt, the cliche is true: the **** she thinks sometimes boggles my mind and I can't comprehend it.

[Hawk]

Does this mean you haven't been having sex, by the way?

I've been experimenting with sexual continence. I don't have sex to the point of ejaculation, basically.

[Hawk]

Of course it should be a parental prerogative; so should internet usage and websites being visited. I don't see how porn is drastically different than a number of other things out there.
I really don't know when I'd be ok with a child beginning too watch porn. Not until at least teens, probably.
We can't predict that stuff.

I don't think porn unto itself is necessarily more dangerous or different than a lot of things out there, but I am reserved when it comes to discussing how it can negatively effect youth, especially.

[The Chosen One]

I've been experimenting with sexual continence. I don't have sex to the point of ejaculation, basically.

This combined with your political views. God bless you child.

[Hawk]

This combined with your political views. God bless you child.

Sexual continence is tantra you porn-addled goat.

Or, maybe you are just jealous of anglo-penis.

I lived in Asia for years. I know the truth.

[BedellBrave]

(The point was that NoFap on Reddit is clearly not 'old people'.)

Pornography is a little different, I think. Thanks to the Internet it's readily available to a wide ranging demographic than can consume it with no real outward effect (unlike food, drugs, alcohol, and other things which are typically abused). You just can't accurately gauge the effects it has on an individual biologically or mentally. I don't believe pornography is inherently bad, but I do think people should be better informed of the risks.

I do. By it's very nature it objectifies another human being as a piece of meat in order to stimulate. In addition after the initial fix, it often leads to wanting you know something a bit more, and it devolves from there.

[zitothebrave]

I do. By it's very nature it objectifies another human being as a piece of meat in order to stimulate. In addition after the initial fix, it often leads to wanting you know something a bit more, and it devolves from there.

Sorry bedell, don't believe in slippery slope arguments. They have no backing other than circumstantial evidence.

Porn is arguably one of the smallest medium that objectifies a person. We constantly see objectification in advertisements on a daily basis. Buy this cologne, get ot bang the chicks Brad Pitt bangs, buy this bra get to be Adriana Lima.

Lemme guess though, you think that kids shouldn't learn about sex, should be ashamed of their bodies, and so on so forth. I mean that worked so well for the puritans. None of them had shotgun weddinsgs. Part of being human is to be objectified as primarily we're all looking to mate, it's our primal goal. Man with the genes most attractive for child bearing bangs the woman who's got the qualities of bearing said child. Not objectifying women/men is a newer idea and it's gonna take a long freaking time to overcome.

[The Chosen One]

yeezus and I both admit to watching porn, but zito is arguably the resident Porn Kingpin of ChopCountry.

[BedellBrave]

yeezus and I both admit to watching porn, but zito is arguably the resident Porn Kingpin of ChopCountry.

And he comes to defend it... Lovely that. I'm sure he just stopped though at soft-porn.

[BedellBrave]

Sorry bedell, don't believe in slippery slope arguments. They have no backing other than circumstantial evidence.

Porn is arguably one of the smallest medium that objectifies a person. We constantly see objectification in advertisements on a daily basis. Buy this cologne, get ot bang the chicks Brad Pitt bangs, buy this bra get to be Adriana Lima.

Lemme guess though, you think that kids shouldn't learn about sex, should be ashamed of their bodies, and so on so forth. I mean that worked so well for the puritans. None of them had shotgun weddinsgs. Part of being human is to be objectified as primarily we're all looking to mate, it's our primal goal. Man with the genes most attractive for child bearing bangs the woman who's got the qualities of bearing said child. Not objectifying women/men is a newer idea and it's gonna take a long freaking time to overcome.


Listen to what you are saying. Just listen. Sad really. The world you want isn't worth inhabiting.

[zitothebrave]

And he comes to defend it... Lovely that.

It's not so much defending it, as promoting education. When you tell someone they can't do something, they'll want to do it. It's in our human nature. We're curiosu folk. And if something is taboo, it can add a certainl level of arousal (for lack of a better word) that makes you want to experience it more and more and heightens your satisfaction when you do it.

Porn certainly is bad, has many bad aspects of it, as do many of the subversive ways that humans are sold. For a different example, pick on soldiers, they're told they're heroes, put on platforms, they're part of a team, not individuals, so on so forth. These things allow them to kill with reckless abandon. It shields them from the horrors they're committing because of how things are sold to them. If you want to address the issues of objectifying women, you can do that, but just pointing to porn and saying, there it is. Is not a great way of doing it.

[The Chosen One]

And he comes to defend it... Lovely that.

I'll defend it too. We don't know the people you deal with in your marriage counseling. For people like me, zeets or yeezus it isn't something that overtakes our view on reality with relationships and socializing with women. It's fantasy for 2 minutes.

[BedellBrave]

I'll defend it too. We don't know the people you deal with in your marriage counseling. For people like me, zeets or yeezus it isn't something that overtakes our view on reality with relationships and socializing with women. It's fantasy for 2 minutes.


You defend objectifying a woman? Reducing her to merely something to get off on.

And you are what, in your twenties? You've got no idea of the scars that can come. The images you won't be able to get out of your mind. They are there now and your wife to be will never make the grade.

And when you are jacking off looking at a video on your phone, while your wive withdraws further and further into her hurt, remember this warning.

[BedellBrave]

It's not so much defending it, as promoting education. When you tell someone they can't do something, they'll want to do it. It's in our human nature. We're curiosu folk. And if something is taboo, it can add a certainl level of arousal (for lack of a better word) that makes you want to experience it more and more and heightens your satisfaction when you do it.

Porn certainly is bad, has many bad aspects of it, as do many of the subversive ways that humans are sold. For a different example, pick on soldiers, they're told they're heroes, put on platforms, they're part of a team, not individuals, so on so forth. These things allow them to kill with reckless abandon. It shields them from the horrors they're committing because of how things are sold to them. If you want to address the issues of objectifying women, you can do that, but just pointing to porn and saying, there it is. Is not a great way of doing it.



I'm not telling you you can't. I'm telling you you shouldn't and that what you are doing has more effects than you will admit. There's a huge porn industry and it is hurting millions. And your attempts at diversion are just that.

[zitothebrave]

Listen to what you are saying. Just listen. Sad really. The world you want isn't worth inhabiting.

The world I want where people are allowed to do what they choose? Where we flip our **** cause of 3 seconds of Janet Jackson boob yet take our kids to see movies that desensitize violence? We're largely primal creatures who spent most of our existence as hunter gatherers. Until the last centruy or so women were commonly viewed as nothing more than property to be used as leverage to gain social favor. Or if you were poor, they were baby factories. You talk about wanting to do things a certain way but provide no means to reach that end.

You say things like "we've now idea where the pervasiveness of porn is going to take us as a culture. My only guess - nowhere good." when the truth of the matter is that porn has existed for ages. Was it consumed in different ways? Sure. Was it more tame? Almost certainly. But it has and always will exist. I guess you prefer the society where women are traded as commodities as that essentially is the historical "pre-porn" reference we've got to look at. It's sad that you think Porn has more control over societies than the multi-billion dollar corporations who cram ads down our throats until we buy their ****.

[zitothebrave]

I'm not telling you you can't. I'm telling you you shouldn't and that what you are doing has more effects than you will admit. There's a huge porn industry and it is hurting millions.

You can say that about many industries. I'm glad you're taking a stand on something. But I don't think the issue is nearly as pronounced as you like to think it is. I guess things were better in the old days when you wanted to get your rocks off you went to show where women stripped and then wanked it in a private room. Or you bought yourself a whore. Because that was one of 2 jobs women could have. I'm not a champion of porn, if there was a way a to have the porn industry act ethically I'd be all for it. But saying it's "evil" and going to "ruin society" and what not is very chicken littlesque.

[BedellBrave]

Denial, I'm thinking because you like it.

[BedellBrave]

The world I want where people are allowed to do what they choose? Where we flip our **** cause of 3 seconds of Janet Jackson boob yet take our kids to see movies that desensitize violence? We're largely primal creatures who spent most of our existence as hunter gatherers. Until the last centruy or so women were commonly viewed as nothing more than property to be used as leverage to gain social favor. Or if you were poor, they were baby factories. You talk about wanting to do things a certain way but provide no means to reach that end.

You say things like "we've now idea where the pervasiveness of porn is going to take us as a culture. My only guess - nowhere good." when the truth of the matter is that porn has existed for ages. Was it consumed in different ways? Sure. Was it more tame? Almost certainly. But it has and always will exist. I guess you prefer the society where women are traded as commodities as that essentially is the historical "pre-porn" reference we've got to look at. It's sad that you think Porn has more control over societies than the multi-billion dollar corporations who cram ads down our throats until we buy their ****.


You're illogical. That you so quickly resort to straw-men is telling. Oh, and by the way, porn is a multi-billion dollar industry.

[zitothebrave]

Multi-billion dollar industry does not equal multi-billion dollar company.

Playboy, takes in about a few milllion a year, Hustler about a million, CEO of Mind Geek the biggest porn conglomerate in the world, is worth about 200M. For comparison, that's less money than Andrew Carnegie got in 1900 for being bought out of Carnegie Steel. That's money, tha'ts power. Porn industry is exploitive, but ti's hardly the monster you're making it out to be.

[zitothebrave]

Denial, I'm thinking because you like it.

Don't think it's denial at all. Think it's you being closed minded. Not saying you have to accept porn, but acting like porn is the root of all evil is just naive.

[The Chosen One]

You defend objectifying a woman? Reducing her to merely something to get off on.

And you are what, in your twenties? You've got no idea of the scars that can come. The images you won't be able to get out of your mind. They are there now and your wife to be will never make the grade.

And when you are jacking off looking at a video on your phone, while your wive withdraws further and further into her hurt, remember this warning.

Quite the opposite.

Whenever I've had relationships, my porn viewing dropped drastically and the sex was much more intimate than casual sex. No dirty talking like in the pornos, just bliss and appreciation of one another's company translated into sex. But since I've been single for prolonged periods of time (work, projects, hobbies, and Savannah & Southern Girls in general aren't exactly the best pool to choose from for my personality, right Hawk?), so porn just keeps me satisfied for a few minutes a day.

Again, perhaps because I've been watching porn for so long I'm de-sensitized by the effect you're speaking of. That's why I said, I don't know who the people are you deal with in your marriage counseling and if porn can really be pointed to as the main factor of a marriage breakdown or is it one component of many variables adding up. You could be counseling husband and wives that really had no business getting married. It's quite commonplace to see people in my generation rushing to getting married when you could see from 10 miles away they are not compatible in the long term. Has nothing to do with porn, just people ignoring blatantly obvious signs that they shouldn't get married and using their long time status as an excuse to "go to the next step".

[The Chosen One]

Beds, I don't consider a female porn star to be that much at all different in cultural terms than someone like LeBron James.

Both sell their bodies for a period of their life for the enjoyment of others to get a certain visual stimuli. I suppose we're ok as a society objectifying athletes, especially football players who risk their entire lives to get paid to play a game (except those College Players) that satisfies the raging testosterone of middle aged men who want to see someone get hit. I'm assuming in your line of marriage counseling, you've never had the trouble of husband wanting to watch too much sports and not giving his wife enough attention?

[BedellBrave]

Don't think it's denial at all. Think it's you being closed minded. Not saying you have to accept porn, but acting like porn is the root of all evil is just naive.


See that's what I mean by being illogical and making straw men. When did I even imply that I thought it was the root of all evil? Never. Of course it is not -it itself is symptomatic.

I think the charge of being close-minded could be turned back on you. See I think it is possible to have a better world with less and less porn, where women and men are valued and treated honorably. Why not join me?

[BedellBrave]

Quite the opposite.

Whenever I've had relationships, my porn viewing dropped drastically and the sex was much more intimate than casual sex. No dirty talking like in the pornos, just bliss and appreciation of one another's company translated into sex. But since I've been single for prolonged periods of time (work, projects, hobbies, and Savannah & Southern Girls in general aren't exactly the best pool to choose from for my personality, right Hawk?), so porn just keeps me satisfied for a few minutes a day.

Again, perhaps because I've been watching porn for so long I'm de-sensitized by the effect you're speaking of. That's why I said, I don't know who the people are you deal with in your marriage counseling and if porn can really be pointed to as the main factor of a marriage breakdown or is it one component of many variables adding up. You could be counseling husband and wives that really had no business getting married. It's quite commonplace to see people in my generation rushing to getting married when you could see from 10 miles away they are not compatible in the long term. Has nothing to do with porn, just people ignoring blatantly obvious signs that they shouldn't get married and using their long time status as an excuse to "go to the next step".


Hey Sav, I hope you understand, my concern is for people - for your good and the good of the rest of your life. I'll leave it at that.

[The Chosen One]

See that's what I mean by being illogical and making straw men. When did I even imply that I thought it was the root of all evil? Never. Of course it is not -it itself is symptomatic.

I think made the charge of being close-minded could be turned back on you. See I think it is possible to have a better world with less and less porn, where women and men are valued and treated honorably. Why not join me?

It sounds like you have a conflict of interest with America and freedom.

I'm half joking, half serious.

[BedellBrave]

Beds, I don't consider a female porn star to be that much at all different in cultural terms than someone like LeBron James.

Both sell their bodies for a period of their life for the enjoyment of others to get a certain visual stimuli. I suppose we're ok as a society objectifying athletes, especially football players who risk their entire lives to get paid to play a game (except those College Players) that satisfies the raging testosterone of middle aged men who want to see someone get hit. I'm assuming in your line of marriage counseling, you've never had the trouble of husband wanting to watch too much sports and not giving his wife enough attention?


Oh sure, there's all kinds of selfishness and brokenness. Yet, in my humble opinion, this board is rife (as is our culture more and more) with folks who don't quite get or want to admit to the darkness and damage this deep, deep, industry is doing.

[BedellBrave]

It sounds like you have a conflict of interest with America and freedom.

I'm half joking, half serious.


Oh, I'm not talking about governmental restrictions (other than on child-porn, bestiality and necrophilia). I am talking about the freedom to honor and value one another rather than debase.

[The Chosen One]

Oh sure, there's all kinds of selfishness and brokenness. Yet, in my humble opinion, this board is rife (as is our culture more and more) with folks who don't quite get or want to admit to the darkness and damage this deep, deep, industry is doing.

So where does porn lay on the scale of threats to America's future?

Muslims
Legalizing Marijuana
Allowing Gays to Marry
Porn
Gun Control
Raising Taxes
Universal Healthcare
Downsized Military
Illegal Immigrants

One battle at a time.

[Garmel]

Oh sure, there's all kinds of selfishness and brokenness. Yet, in my humble opinion, this board is rife (as is our culture more and more) with folks who don't quite get or want to admit to the darkness and damage this deep, deep, industry is doing.

From one old guy to another I'm not sure what to make of this. Of all of the bad things that are damaging to people in this world, porn is way, way down on the list. I'd rather see someone watch porn than do drugs or drink. Just saying.

[zitothebrave]

See that's what I mean by being illogical and making straw men. When did I even imply that I thought it was the root of all evil? Never. Of course it is not -it itself is symptomatic.

I think the charge of being close-minded could be turned back on you. See I think it is possible to have a better world with less and less porn, where women and men are valued and treated honorably. Why not join me?

Sorry if you see it as a "strawman" but when you say things like "we've now idea where the pervasiveness of porn is going to take us as a culture. My only guess - nowhere good." you're inferring that porn is a leader in societal failures, I was being hyperbolic when I used my "root of all evil" phrase, but i figured a southern minister like yourself would appreciate a little fire and brimstone. But it was your language and overall tone which lead me down that path. I respect your opinion on the topic, there are certainly issues in the porn world. Especially where you have women essentially forced into doing porn as part of the sex trade. NOt to mention the other exploitive techniques which don't generate women money. I'm all for porn empowerment, but that's on the consumer. We live in a world where the market rules and there are people making money on the sex market illegally like on many other markets.

[57Brave]

Oh sure, there's all kinds of selfishness and brokenness. Yet, in my humble opinion, this board is rife (as is our culture more and more) with folks who don't quite get or want to admit to the darkness and damage this deep, deep, industry is doing.

and they better stay offa your lawn

what is it with you and people having sex ? It seems that any topic that attends your passion revolves around others getting sexual pleasure in one form or another.

My guess is PeeWee football is damaging and has damaged more lives than the " shiney thing " of porn.
http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2015/02/pop-warner-football-concussions-complaint

[Runnin]

From one old guy to another I'm not sure what to make of this. Of all of the bad things that are damaging to people in this world, porn is way, way down on the list. I'd rather see someone watch porn than do drugs or drink. Just saying.
The irony is that silly Christian morality is the great fertilizer which feeds the seeds of pornography and other exploitations of women.

[yeezus]

lol every argument with bedell comes down to him saying, "you believe this/know this to be true, but just don't want to admit it!"

[gilesfan]

So you're into porn?

If you are asking if I like watching girls have sex the answer is yes.

[gilesfan]

Do you live under a rock?

I must. I googled him after asking and don't think I've ever seen him

[gilesfan]

Without getting into much detail, I've been practicing sexual taoism for the past 6 months. The effects have been nothing short of profound, but I'd lying if I said that certain aspects hadn't been agonizing.

I challenge anybody who doesn't think that porn is addictive to try take a break from it -- and masturbation -- for one month.

How old are you Hawk? Just curious. At 21 I might not be able to. Now, I could do a month without even blinking.

And I've read the nofap stuff and believe that porn is bad for some people. Just like anything....sports are bad for some people bc they get too engaged in it.

[gilesfan]

I've been experimenting with sexual continence. I don't have sex to the point of ejaculation, basically.

When you finally bust a nut, it will probably be amazing.

[acesfull86]

Porn? Am I the only one who gets the Food Network?

[BedellBrave]

I'm not so sure what's silly about seeking not to objectify someone else merely for my fleeting pleasure.

I'm also not sure why we can't rationally consider the damage that the porn industry causes.

The Russell video, interestingly - at least to me, dealt with all manner of issues and not from an overtly Christian vantage point, but rather one of human flourishing. Yet, you guys revert to a critique of my faith. That's okay of course, have at it.

It would be nice though if you'd at least for a moment or two, consider that maybe your own view of the matter is worthy of reconsideration.

I also don't quite get why you have got to have some ranking of cultural problems in order to talk honestly about one on that list. Why is that?

Is it because this strikes close to home and you don't want to think about any consequences to your own choices?

Notice, few of you - if any - want to actually talk about it as a problem at all. Or want to consider that it can be (I'd say is) exploitive, that it turns a person into merely an object, that it presents a less than realistic portrayal of what most people are (and subsequently can have damaging effects upon human relationships), and might be connected with nefarious activities (like human trafficking).

It is telling to me, that virtually everyone here would prefer to critique me, than consider that there might be some issues with porn that aren't good. I think you want what you want and you don't want someone questioning whether that's a good thing or not.

[BedellBrave]

Sorry if you see it as a "strawman" but when you say things like "we've now idea where the pervasiveness of porn is going to take us as a culture. My only guess - nowhere good." you're inferring that porn is a leader in societal failures, I was being hyperbolic when I used my "root of all evil" phrase, but i figured a southern minister like yourself would appreciate a little fire and brimstone. But it was your language and overall tone which lead me down that path. I respect your opinion on the topic, there are certainly issues in the porn world. Especially where you have women essentially forced into doing porn as part of the sex trade. NOt to mention the other exploitive techniques which don't generate women money. I'm all for porn empowerment, but that's on the consumer. We live in a world where the market rules and there are people making money on the sex market illegally like on many other markets.


Thanks z, for maybe the best acknowledgment of the problems from you guys.

[BedellBrave]

and they better stay offa your lawn

what is it with you and people having sex ? It seems that any topic that attends your passion revolves around others getting sexual pleasure in one form or another.

My guess is PeeWee football is damaging and has damaged more lives than the " shiney thing " of porn.
http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2015/02/pop-warner-football-concussions-complaint


I thought liberals were against exploitation.

[BedellBrave]

lol every argument with bedell comes down to him saying, "you believe this/know this to be true, but just don't want to admit it!"


It doesn't. It's obvious that you don't think there's anything wrong with objectification and exploitation of other people for sexual pleasure.

[BedellBrave]

The irony is that silly Christian morality is the great fertilizer which feeds the seeds of pornography and other exploitations of women.


Runnin, I'll give you this. You are consistent.

[BedellBrave]

"...In her book, Bunny Tales: Behind Closed Doors at the Playboy Mansion, Izabella St James, who was one of Hugh Hefner's former "official girlfriends", described sex with Hef. Hef, in his late 70s, would have sex twice a week, sometimes with four or more of his girlfriends at once, St James among them. He had novelty, variety, multiplicity and women willing to do what he pleased. At the end of the happy orgy, wrote St James, came "the grand finale: he masturbated while watching porn".

Here, the man who could actually live out the ultimate porn fantasy, with real porn stars, instead turned from their real flesh and touch, to the image on the screen. Now, I ask you, "what is wrong with this picture?"."


Link (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/26/brain-scans-porn-addicts-sexual-tastes)

[BedellBrave]

"...Teenagers' brains are especially plastic. Now, 24/7 access to internet porn is laying the foundation of their sexual tastes. In Beeban Kidron's InRealLife, a gripping film about the effects of the internet on teenagers, a 15-year-old boy of extraordinary honesty and courage articulates what is going on in the lives of millions of teen boys. He shows her the porn images that excite him and his friends, and describes how they have moulded their "real life" sexual activity. He says: "You'd try out a girl and get a perfect image of what you've watched on the internet … you'd want her to be exactly like the one you saw on the internet … I'm highly thankful to whoever made these websites, and that they're free, but in other senses it's ruined the whole sense of love. It hurts me because I find now it's so hard for me to actually find a connection to a girl."

The sexual tastes and the romantic longings of these boys have become dissociated from each other. Meanwhile, the girls have "downloaded" on to them the expectation that they play roles written by pornographers. Once, porn was used by teens to explore, prepare and relieve sexual tension, in anticipation of a real sexual relationship. Today, it supplants it...."


Article certainly isn't coming from someone with my faith, but at least the author addresses some very real problems.

[Hawk]

How old are you Hawk? Just curious. At 21 I might not be able to. Now, I could do a month without even blinking.

And I've read the nofap stuff and believe that porn is bad for some people. Just like anything....sports are bad for some people bc they get too engaged in it.

I'm 27.

Frankly, I decided I needed to change my sexual habits because I was having too much unsafe sex with too many different people. I was scared my dick was going to fall off (or worse) ... so I decided to shake things up a little. I had abstinence shoved down my throat as a teenager, so instead of going down that road again I thought that attempting to modify what sex actually provided me was a worthy route to explore. I've learned a lot.


When you finally bust a nut, it will probably be amazing.

I'm not refraining from all ejaculation (don't believe that's healthy) ... just removing it from a sex-based context and treating it as more of a necessary biological function.

[Gary82]

Objectifying women (and men to a much lesser extent) is the purpose of porn. I think that's undeniable, and it's what it is for. It's to get people off.

Now, is this a bad thing? I am not so sure.

Porn is a vice...a drug. In moderation, it helps people get through this bull**** concept of life we as humans have created. However, there are people who do get addicted to it, and it can lead to the destruction of relationships. This is a very real concern. Some people also can't separate what is fantasy and reality and view what they have seen in pornography as the reality when it comes to women and men and how we should interact in society. Additionally, it does raise expectations that a normal relationship will not meet, and the amount of images, videos, etc that are available to you makes rubbing one out, rubbing one out on demand.

Should it be illegal? No. I think we should help those who are addicted, and continue to educate those about it and the, let's say, side effects. Porn is not the substitute for a healthy relationship, but there are some who will never have a relationship, don't want one, or just haven't come across one yet. I think people should be able to use it if they want to, and as long as it isn't harming others, then what they do with their lives is their prerogative. I would not support government intervention, or those who support government intervention.

This doesn't mean I approve of the objectification of women or men outside of porn. I do hope that one day that women will be viewed as equals (because they are), than as just sex objects, however, porn is just one of many markets that objectifies. Modeling, advertising, tv, movies, music, religion all objectify and or demean and are all readily available and influence our society much more so than porn. At least with porn, you know what you're getting into.

I think there were some interesting points about sports and the objectification of athletes. I am guilty of it. I don't view them as anything but a vessel for statistics that will or won't help the logo I am rooting for. Not exactly something I should be proud of. But it's also something corporations and governments do. We as people are nothing more than a statistic or a vote.

Bottom line is, we as humans have a lot more evolving to do. We have just barely emerged from the savagery of our beginnings. :pound::pound::pound:

[The Chosen One]

Yea Bedell, I think those of us here who do watch porn even for a few minutes acknowledge there are bad things like the underground sex trade.

But thankfully most porn stars in this country do get paid a decent living, and not all get trapped in it permanently against their own free will. The ones who have been in it for a long time, male or female, do so because they just love the industry.

And my comment about you having a conflict of interest in America and Freedom has nothing to do with government regulation but rather you want to try and suppress actions/thoughts you disagree with, without having to pass legislation.

It's great to say you envision a world where we all treat each other decently, which I want as well. But it's the same argument I get with conservatives about unrestricted free market economics and welfare programs. People get screwed all the time because of the nature of the system, but it always comes back to "if you aren't fit enough to support yourself by however means, you don't deserve to make it in this country". We can't regulate some markets or allow government intervention because then it "stifles innovation and creativity of the free market". Porn is a multi-billion dollar industry like the NFL, provides a bunch of jobs. People just throwing their bodies out there for the entertainment of others.

I'd be more concerned of eliminating racism and xenophobia before I even think about porn. In it's own weird way, at least porn sort of narrows gaps of racism and xenophobia.

Again, this is not to say I don't think there are people who struggle with porn as an addiction just like some do with video games, internet usage, drugs, sports, gambling, etc. But IMHO porn is way way way on the bottom of the totem pole of problems with America.

[The Chosen One]

I thought liberals were against exploitation.

Depends on how you view exploitation. We can go back to my sports argument. Ray Lewis was beloved by most hardcore football fans because of his "passion" and his "warrior" mentality on how he plays the game which is hit harder and harder. America loves the big hit from a safety on a receiver trying to catch a ball with the receiver being laid out on the ground.

If a female porn star wants to get paid to do something she was going to do if it was illegal anyways, more power to her. Porn stars have agents, not pimps and can choose what work and how much work they want to do. Some porn stars don't do gang bangs, some don't do anal, some don't do bondage, some just strictly do lesbian. If their hand were forced to do things they didn't want to do, I would be more on your side of outrage. But these are adults doing adult things.

For your question on children being exposed to porn, I grew up right in the beginning of the huge boom of internet streaming porn and it was very accessible if you knew how to obtain passwords over the web. I also grew up watching wrestling, which had more than it's fair share of objectification of men and women alike.

I do remember Jessica Simpson's dad saying on TV he told Jessica when she was younger "Don't have sex until you're married, once you do get married you can have sex until your face turns purple". Their family considered themselves pretty conservative. Yet in her prime years Jessica Simpson was arguably one of the more notable sex icons in this country including her being Daisy Duke. Is it possible growing up in a household that kept trying to suppress her sexuality only made her even more sexual once the chains broke free?

[Hawk]

It's entertaining to watch liberals consistently claim that their belief system is a moral standard bearer ... then you read the beliefs professed in this thread.

[The Chosen One]

It's entertaining to watch liberals consistently claim that their belief system is a moral standard bearer ... then you read the beliefs professed in this thread.

I think liberals (or the ones you're referring to) have a system that is open to adapting and changing opinions/standards with the times as deemed fit.

Whereas conservatives tend to appear to have a one size fits all type of value system.

I think being a liberal is a tougher balancing act which makes it at times makes it appear as if we have no conviction to any moral standard. I had an interesting conversation with an older conservative guy at the country club yesterday. We talked about homosexuality in the modern age. He said "we have gay members of our church, we love them. But I don't want them to impart their beliefs on me. Just because I'm biologically wired to want to sleep with every woman I see doesn't mean I have to. Same thing for gay guys, you don't have to sleep with other guys. They do it because it's cool."

Not sure how to take his comments but his mentality is interesting to me. You're ok with them being gay, but you're not ok with them being gay.

[BedellBrave]

It's entertaining to watch liberals consistently claim that their belief system is a moral standard bearer ... then you read the beliefs professed in this thread.


Yep. What's particularly fascinating is the approval of objectifying people for their own sexual pleasure. For the folks suppose to be about treating people with worth and dignity, caring for the downtrodden, fighting for rights, etc., lambasting corporate-industrial evil, that just seems all out of whack to me. I'm having a hard time processing it.

I actually thought some of the more liberal guys would have been right here in this with me. Guess I got that one wrong.

[BedellBrave]

I think liberals (or the ones you're referring to) have a system that is open to adapting and changing opinions/standards with the times as deemed fit.

Whereas conservatives tend to appear to have a one size fits all type of value system.

I think being a liberal is a tougher balancing act which makes it at times makes it appear as if we have no conviction to any moral standard. I had an interesting conversation with an older conservative guy at the country club yesterday. We talked about homosexuality in the modern age. He said "we have gay members of our church, we love them. But I don't want them to impart their beliefs on me. Just because I'm biologically wired to want to sleep with every woman I see doesn't mean I have to. Same thing for gay guys, you don't have to sleep with other guys. They do it because it's cool."

Not sure how to take his comments but his mentality is interesting to me. You're ok with them being gay, but you're not ok with them being gay.


Oh my, a liberal doesn't have a one size fits all morality? Really? Please tell me you jest.

[The Chosen One]

Oh my, a liberal doesn't have a one size fits all morality? Really? Please tell me you jest.

The party that wants to deport 11 million people because they're "illegal", or the party that wants to deport some but not all.

Which one is the one that takes pride in calling itself the party of family values, but at the same time has no issue breaking up families because they don't speak English or have a different birth country?

[BedellBrave]

But my question is - you really don't think you've got a one-size fits all morality? Really?

[The Chosen One]

But my question is - you really don't think you've got a one-size fits all morality? Really?

I tend to look at issues in the grey area not black or white.

[BedellBrave]

Ha! You guys are delusional. :-)

[Metaphysicist]

I think anyone who claims porn has no influence on their sexuality isn't being honest with themselves.

[57Brave]

“Everything in the world is about sex except sex. Sex is about power.”
― Oscar Wilde

[The Chosen One]

I think anyone who claims porn has no influence on their sexuality isn't being honest with themselves.

I watch it for the story.

[gilesfan]

I think anyone who claims porn has no influence on their sexuality isn't being honest with themselves.

I watch it to compare dick sizes to my own.

[jpx7]

I know I'm late to this conversation, but:

I think one aspect of this discussion that hasn't been sufficiently broached, and which makes the intersection of pornography and young minds particularly problematic, is context, or really lack thereof—much of which is to blame on the real reticence with which many corners of this country (and world, for that matter) operate regarding earnest sex-education for children, as well as the reluctance a great many adults have in discussing sexuality with youths in anything resembling a frank manner. If some eleven-year-old—emerging into adolescence and ineluctably curious and her/his sexual nature—learns first and foremost about that nature by watching cam-girls get choked from behind by their boyfriends for bit-coins, it's no surprise they may develop unsteadily and struggle to relate to their sexuality, the sexuality of others, or in some cases entire gender-sets.

[Runnin]

regarding earnest sex-education for children, as well as the reluctance a great many adults have in discussing sexuality with youths in anything resembling a frank manner. If some eleven-year-old—emerging into adolescence and ineluctably curious and her/his sexual nature—learns first and foremost about that nature by watching cam-girls get choked from behind by their boyfriends for bit-coins, it's no surprise they may develop unsteadily and struggle to relate to their sexuality, the sexuality of others, or in some cases entire gender-sets.
Completely agree.

Another area kids aren't getting good information about is drugs. Sex and drugs, two huge dangers to the youth, almost totally ignored by public education.

[AerchAngel]

I am like who is Russell? Then I read these posts. All about discussing porn. I am not into that crap and this stuff is disturbing.

Then it dawned to me, why is this relevant?

[Hawk]

watching cam-girls get choked from behind by their boyfriends for bit-coins

... go on.

[jpx7]

... go on.

Any further and Fearless Leader'll have to move this thread to another sub-forum.