What a joke of a network and a shameful performance by the anchor...

[goldfly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwWbPpFZ31s

[yeezus]

Holy...I don't even.... That lady was infuriating. Damn man, I'd have lost it. She could not comprehend the fact that his truly a professional religious scholar. She took the whole thing so personally that she could not separate scholar and someone with heavy bias. And honestly, that's because all she's accustomed to is bias, from her and everyone around her. The guy probably knows infinitely more about christianity in general than she does.

[gtcway]

I can't believe people actually watch that **** smeared channel.

[weso1]

Speaking of horrible interviews from crap networks. Did you guys ever see this silly interview of Breitbart by Martin Bashir? How anyone can get their "news" from MSNBC is something intelligent people can't fathom.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63TMawHivXQ

[Dalyn]

Before this turns into a FOX vs MSNBC orgy, I would like to step in, pee a little in the far corner where it won't be noticed until it starts to smell, and agree that the interview was poorly conducted.

[zitothebrave]

Fox News was on in the doctor's office today. And do they sell every scammy product there?

[jpx7]

Before this turns into a FOX vs MSNBC orgy, I would like to step in, pee a little in the far corner where it won't be noticed until it starts to smell, and agree that the interview was poorly conducted.

Yea, I mean, they're all garbage; this is just particularly egregious.

[goldfly]

Speaking of horrible interviews from crap networks. Did you guys ever see this silly interview of Breitbart by Martin Bashir? How anyone can get their "news" from MSNBC is something intelligent people can't fathom.


way to not talk about the actual post this thread was about

[weso1]

way to not talk about the actual post this thread was about

This thread is about terrible interviews, and I posted another terrible interview. Just ignore my post if you don't like it. But it's a funny interview so you should do yourself a favor and watch it. Not sure what comments you're expecting now anyway other than "Ehrmahgerd... terrible interview."

[Metaphysicist]

Speaking of horrible interviews from crap networks. Did you guys ever see this silly interview of Breitbart by Martin Bashir? How anyone can get their "news" from MSNBC is something intelligent people can't fathom.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63TMawHivXQ

Anyone voluntarily watching either MSNBC or any interview with Andrew Breitbart (RIP) should review their life choices.

[weso1]

Anyone voluntarily watching either MSNBC or any interview with Andrew Breitbart (RIP) should review their life choices.

It was one of those random youtube stumble upons. We've all been there.

With that said.. The interview really is a good laugh.

[goldfly]

This thread is about terrible interviews"
i started this thread

thus i know what the tread is about

and it isn't about terrible interviews overall

[Runnin]

Fox news has set the bar so low it's now completely covered with sand.

[Krgrecw]

I'd be willing to bet that the interviewer went off on her own trying to hit a home run and make a name for herself.


Meta, Breitbart did break the Anthony Weiner scandal wide open. You have to admit that. If it wasn't for Breitbart, Weiner would probably had stayed in office and the scandal wouldn't had been much of anything

[Yogi44]

As a legit question.... is there ANY news channel on these days that is not biased in their reporting, be it looking left or right?

[zitothebrave]

As a legit question.... is there ANY news channel on these days that is not biased in their reporting, be it looking left or right?

24 hour station? No.

CNN is probably be most central of the big 3 but that's not really saying much. They still lean left cause that's where the money is. You're either far right or leaning left to make the most money on TV.

[thethe]

That guy was a pretentious mofo on the video. That being said, its clear the anchor had an agenda.

[gilesfan]

Hard for me to listen to much of that interview with that guy sucking his own dick so hard.

[thethe]

Hard for me to listen to much of that interview with that guy sucking his own dick so hard.

I AM A SCHOLAR!!!

[weso1]

Guys... let's keep this thread on topic and talk more about the Breitbart interview please.

[sturg33]

As a legit question.... is there ANY news channel on these days that is not biased in their reporting, be it looking left or right?

No. ONly honest news you can find is on the internet.

[weso1]

InfoWars!

[Tapate50]

Hard for me to listen to much of that interview with that guy sucking his own dick so hard.

It really was.

Everyone knows what the anchor was trying to do, but lets not act like it isn't going on all over the news. To think otherwise is simply wrong.

[Dalyn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOjUKwoHUyw



Hilarious.

[elmonthc]

I dont watch thenews. Im the only one who still reads the paper I guess.

[jpx7]

Hard for me to listen to much of that interview with that guy sucking his own dick so hard.

Sort of an unsurprising reaction to the rampant anti-intellectualism ubiquitous in the US these days.

[yeezus]

Hard for me to listen to much of that interview with that guy sucking his own dick so hard.

Him saying all he said about himself was a response to her complete and utter stupidity. She was only identifying him by his religion, as if he is literally nothing else in his entire life except for a muslim. He had to keep reiterating that this was his job, this is what he studied for years for - that he wasn't writing as a muslim, but as a scholar. When someone continually doesn't even begin to comprehend that possibility, yes, one may go overboard in defending his credentials.

[goldfly]

Hard for me to listen to much of that interview with that guy sucking his own dick so hard.

i wonder why he kept doing that

hmmm

[elmonthc]

i wonder why he kept doing that

hmmm


Giles is just jealous he cant blow himself.

[Tapate50]

Giles is just jealous he cant blow himself.

Don't lie, you tried and failed too. We all did once and we all died a lil when we couldn't

[mossy]

Cable news is a joke. While I'm rather harsh on Fox, I'm sick of CNN's constant religion hate to where I don't even like to get their headlines anymore. MSNBC? I can't stomach that either.

Any of you play StarCraft II? They do a great job of mocking cable news and it's shameless smearing of facts.

BTW, how long do I have to be a creepy lurking stalker? Can't I just be a lurking stocker? Or just creepy?

[The Chosen One]

Cable news is a joke. While I'm rather harsh on Fox, I'm sick of CNN's constant religion hate to where I don't even like to get their headlines anymore. MSNBC? I can't stomach that either.

Any of you play StarCraft II? They do a great job of mocking cable news and it's shameless smearing of facts.

BTW, how long do I have to be a creepy lurking stalker? Can't I just be a lurking stocker? Or just creepy?

Until you stop lurking and start posting more. :icwudt:

[weso1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOjUKwoHUyw



Hilarious.

Red Eye is a great show. One of the few cable news show that's actually worth watching. Tough to stay up that late to watch it though and sure as hell aint going to record it.

[50PoundHead]

Don't watch much cable news, but I am amused by Greg Gutfeld in that he wrote a book decrying phony outrage and his show is pretty much phony outrage.

Like elmontc, I try to keep up with a variety of newspapers and magazines (some of which are on the internet). If you just want news, Wall Street Journal and New York Times are both good if you stay off the editorial pages, which have their obvious slants. The straight news from those outlets is still pretty solid. Most of the rest of the country is one big Associated Press feed.

What I have found helpful is subscribing to a lot of magazines and news services across the political spectrum on Twitter. Always a story coming with a lot of different angles presented. Use your critical thinking abilities to form an opinion instead of having it spoon fed to you by a talking head.

[Julio3000]

I dont watch thenews. Im the only one who still reads the paper I guess.

I don't watch thethe news either. Too sensationalistic.

[weso1]

What I have found helpful is subscribing to a lot of magazines and news services across the political spectrum on Twitter. Always a story coming with a lot of different angles presented. Use your critical thinking abilities to form an opinion instead of having it spoon fed to you by a talking head.

I agree with that... Plus you get all of the news that way. Of course if you're going to do it this way then you have to make sure your critical thinking remains unbiased. Easier said than done.

[50PoundHead]

I agree with that... Plus you get all of the news that way. Of course if you're going to do it this way then you have to make sure your critical thinking remains unbiased. Easier said than done.

You're absolutely right on that one. I'm left-of-center and have spent a life surrounded by politics and government, so I try extra hard to check my biases at the door, but I often forget to wipe my shoes and manage to mess up the carpet of my thinking. We all have our opinions. I just think it's incumbent on us to inform our opinions.

[Krgrecw]

Weso, why not dvr Redeye? I record it nightly but I delete it as soon as I see Mike Bakers face. Redeye has its moments: Jesse Joyce, tucker Carlson, Gavin McGiness plus the Leg chair.

[BedellBrave]

Bad interview on both their parts. Opening question actually wasn't that bad, just her follow ups were.

[Dalyn]

Bad interview on both their parts. Opening question actually wasn't that bad, just her follow ups were.


http://www.seykota.com/tribe/faq/2005_jul/Jul_11/wave.gif

[BedellBrave]

?

[Dalyn]

?

Just waving.

[BedellBrave]

How's life treating you?

[Dalyn]

Wonderful. You?

[BedellBrave]

Not bad for an old fart. Just been pretty busy. About to head off with the family to the mountains for a week. Hoping to get in a couple nice day hikes. What's up in the writing world?

[Dalyn]

We better get a room before someone gets a look at my dimples.

[Temo]

I'd be willing to bet that the interviewer went off on her own trying to hit a home run and make a name for herself.


Meta, Breitbart did break the Anthony Weiner scandal wide open. You have to admit that. If it wasn't for Breitbart, Weiner would probably had stayed in office and the scandal wouldn't had been much of anything

Yes, thank god someone was there to expose a congressman's dick pics. Truly an inspiration to journalists everywhere.

[Temo]

Don't lie, you tried and failed too. We all did once and we all died a lil when we couldn't

Imagine, however, how much more you would have died if you COULD and that's all you did all day.

... wait, what are you doing right now??

[goldfly]

Yes, thank god someone was there to expose a congressman's dick pics. Truly an inspiration to journalists everywhere.

no doubt

[Coredor]

It was an interview about a book most likely because it had a flashy title that they knew would fire up their target viewers. I doubt she had read the interview. That was the main problem. She had the guy on to discuss his book which she didn't know anything about. For the record I don't know anything about the author or the book either except for the very limited comments he was allowed to make during the interview.

[BedellBrave]

He's a populariser of an old and what had pretty much been discarded theory who inflates his credentials in making an overly defensive appeal to his own 'authority' who happens to be one of 3 Muslims that the media has a growing affection for - Oz, Zakaria and Aslan. The mainstream media, outside of FOX, seems to like him - and I admit he's a likable cus when he isn't in offended-victim mode - and they probably do because he espouses a view that goes against the views of the RR, Evangelicals and historic orthodox Christianity. Gives them no doubt a certain amount of glee.

Green seems like just another FOX babe that really wasn't ready to do a respectful but well planned and thought out interview. She was ready not to give the fawning, softball interviews Reza was use to - but she needed a better line of questioning and some better redirects when he got all defensive.

[Temo]

Bad interview on both their parts. Opening question actually wasn't that bad, just her follow ups were.

I'd be interested in getting your thoughts on the book, if you've read it.

[BedellBrave]

I'd be interested in getting your thoughts on the book, if you've read it.


Haven't read it yet - it's still a new release and I'm working my way thru three other books now. But that said, my friend here gives pretty much what I'll likely think when I do read it.

Link (http://theecclesialcalvinist.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/move-over-drs-oz-and-zakaria-here-comes-dr-aslan/)


Interested in his inflating his credentials? Try this:

Link (http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/07/29/scholarly-misrepresentation/)

[BedellBrave]

Oh btw, good interviews make boring television - so I pretty much don't care for Comedy Central's stuff, FOX's interviews, or any of the rest of them.

Either you've someone like Colbert with his tomfoolery or you've got the rude-won't-let-the-interviewee-say-anything approach or the clueless approaches of the news channels or the fawning-kiss-ups of the morning programs.

[zitothebrave]

I'm sure he woudl sit there and tell you that your readings on Islam are horribly wrong as well.

Religion is all subjective and in the eye of the beholder, and the point he was making about the issues of studying ancient figures is very true. That said having only read reviews of the book, most people don't think it's that revolutionary.

[BedellBrave]

I'm actually not saying "right" or "wrong" - I'm just saying he's not original and what he is throwing out there is likely just a rehash of an older, problematic, mostly-discarded theory.

This is just typical hype being presented as from a noted, serious, scholar. And the funny thing is most rubes will nod their heads in agreement.

[BedellBrave]

Maybe the most disappointing thing - though not unexpected - about that interview was that in his offended-victim, self-defense and appeal to authority, he doesn't take seriously the question of personal bias and his presuppositions. We all have them - he has them - his affect his writing. The lack of self-awareness in the midst of self-defense is kind of humorous though.

[zitothebrave]

I don't think it's new or original. I also don't think it should be discarded. I think that Jesus as a radical shouldn't be thrown out.

[BedellBrave]

No offense intended, but what an individual here or there thinks doesn't actually matter about a theory's explanatory power. And of course there is a "Jesus is a radical" element in who Jesus was/is. But that doesn't equal the theory Aslan looks to be presenting.

[weso1]

4 Thanks per person per thread is my limit.

[Julio3000]

Haven't read it yet - it's still a new release and I'm working my way thru three other books now. But that said, my friend here gives pretty much what I'll likely think when I do read it.

Link (http://theecclesialcalvinist.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/move-over-drs-oz-and-zakaria-here-comes-dr-aslan/)


Interested in his inflating his credentials? Try this:

Link (http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/07/29/scholarly-misrepresentation/)

I can't really comment on the first article's commentary on the book. Seems reasonable and tracks with the reviews I've read, in general. I'm a little distracted by the reference to Fareed Zakaria and Mehmet Oz. What's he saying? Are those guys affirmative action hires? Trophies of the West's romanticization of Eastern mystery?

The author seems to be reducing all three of them to the qualities of being telegenic and brown. Kind of a shallow take.

Gives them no doubt a certain amount of glee.

Something like the glee derived from the relentless pimping of any Muslim apostate in rw media circles, no?

[BedellBrave]

I can't really comment on the first article's commentary on the book. Seems reasonable and tracks with the reviews I've read, in general. I'm a little distracted by the reference to Fareed Zakaria and Mehmet Oz. What's he saying? Are those guys affirmative action hires? Trophies of the West's romanticization of Eastern mystery?

The author seems to be reducing all three of them to the qualities of being telegenic and brown. Kind of a shallow take.

Gives them no doubt a certain amount of glee.

Something like the glee derived from the relentless pimping of any Muslim apostate in rw media circles, no?


As to Muslim apostates - I guess, though I can't remember too many of those sorts of stories. If you could point some out for me I'd be grateful. If they are relentless then I'd of thought I could remember a few of them.

I can ask Bill if you'd like. I think it rather obvious that for much of the media being good-looking is a plus (poor Greta). I also think that for much of the mainstream media there would be a desire to have telegenic and brown and Muslim "experts" (i.e., popularizers) - seems reasonable as well. You don't think so? I mean with the anti-Muslim views that many in the media assume are rampant in the US, don't you think they want to present such telegenic and brown and Muslim and likable and talented and smart folk - and do so frequently? Again, it seems like a no-brainer.

[BedellBrave]

And by the way, doesn't Bill answer your question?

"...What all this says about America is doubtless complicated and difficult to discern. It could simply be evidence of the increasing pluralism of America, but I suspect that more is involved. Certainly the Middle East has figured prominently in American foreign policy and cultural concerns since the 1960s, and the old fascination with exotic matters eastern and “oriental” may play a role. Ex Oriente Lux! Islam poses the greatest contemporary religious challenge to the West, and people are understandably curious about it. Doubtless the fact that all three are effective on television is significant here as well.

It seems to me that Aslan is particularly well-positioned to take advantage of the Zeitgeist. Not only was he born a Muslim, but as a teenager he converted to Evangelical Christianity and was a fervent evangelist for his adopted faith before returning to Islam. As Aslan himself put it in Time:

When I was 15 years old, I heard the Gospel for the first time and gave my life to Christ and began preaching the Gospel for the next five years to everyone, including my family. . . . I had a pretty good conversion rate. My mother is still a Christian. I now rely upon the symbols and metaphors of Islam.
Thus he is himself a metaphor for a pluralistic and post-Christian American culture."

[zitothebrave]

Post-Christian America. Ha

[BedellBrave]

Sure it is. That's a given. And that doesn't mean there are no Christians, nor that they have no influence.

[BedellBrave]

Zito, you might want to read the following:

Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postchristianity)


The term is pretty much standard fare today - and reflects you and what you'd want our society to be fairly well. No?

[Julio3000]

As to Muslim apostates - I guess, though I can't remember too many of those sorts of stories. If you could point some out for me I'd be grateful. If they are relentless then I'd of thought I could remember a few of them.

I can ask Bill if you'd like. I think it rather obvious that for much of the media being good-looking is a plus (poor Greta). I also think that for much of the mainstream media there would be a desire to have telegenic and brown and Muslim "experts" (i.e., popularizers) - seems reasonable as well. You don't think so? I mean with the anti-Muslim views that many in the media assume are rampant in the US, don't you think they want to present such telegenic and brown and Muslim and likable and talented and smart folk - and do so frequently? Again, it seems like a no-brainer.

I mean with the anti-Muslim views that many in the media assume are rampant in the US

I can't speak to rampancy in the US, but those views have a reliable venue on Fox and talk radio, and presumably a constituency as well. Disagree?

there would be a desire to have telegenic and brown and Muslim "experts" (i.e., popularizers) - seems reasonable as well.

I think I understand and mostly agree with what you're getting at. I think that there is an ongoing effort to diversify faces and voices in media, and particular post-9/11 emphasis on Muslims. Can this be reductive and silly sometimes? Sure. Should it be cast in a sinister light? I don't think so.

FWIW, I doubt that the rise of Dr. Oz (whom I know zero about beyond the superficial) had anything to do with Muslim heritage. I'm guessing his elevation by the Oprah machine had more to do with his telegenic nature, his ambition, and his accomplishment in his field. Whatever Fareed Zakaria is, he has the c.v. to do the job that he's been hired to do. Do you disagree? Does the blogger disagree? If not, why bring it up?

Again, it seems like a no-brainer.

OK, so this is a relatively non-controversial statement. Why dangle it out there without elaboration, then? Is there a larger point to be made?

As to Muslim apostates - I guess, though I can't remember too many of those sorts of stories. If you could point some out for me I'd be grateful. If they are relentless then I'd of thought I could remember a few of them.

I recall you promoting Ayaan Hirsi Ali pretty regularly on the old board. Wafa Sultan, too, IIRC. If being telegenic and having a Muslim background gets you a TV gig, being a Muslim apostate (and a woman) is a pretty good inside track to an AEI sinecure.

[BedellBrave]

I mean with the anti-Muslim views that many in the media assume are rampant in the US

I can't speak to rampancy in the US, but those views have a reliable venue on Fox and talk radio, and presumably a constituency as well. Disagree?

there would be a desire to have telegenic and brown and Muslim "experts" (i.e., popularizers) - seems reasonable as well.

I think I understand and mostly agree with what you're getting at. I think that there is an ongoing effort to diversify faces and voices in media, and particular post-9/11 emphasis on Muslims. Can this be reductive and silly sometimes? Sure. Should it be cast in a sinister light? I don't think so.

FWIW, I doubt that the rise of Dr. Oz (whom I know zero about beyond the superficial) had anything to do with Muslim heritage. I'm guessing his elevation by the Oprah machine had more to do with his telegenic nature, his ambition, and his accomplishment in his field. Whatever Fareed Zakaria is, he has the c.v. to do the job that he's been hired to do. Do you disagree? Does the blogger disagree? If not, why bring it up?

Again, it seems like a no-brainer.

OK, so this is a relatively non-controversial statement. Why dangle it out there without elaboration, then? Is there a larger point to be made?

As to Muslim apostates - I guess, though I can't remember too many of those sorts of stories. If you could point some out for me I'd be grateful. If they are relentless then I'd of thought I could remember a few of them.

I recall you promoting Ayaan Hirsi Ali pretty regularly on the old board. Wafa Sultan, too, IIRC. If being telegenic and having a Muslim background gets you a TV gig, being a Muslim apostate (and a woman) is a pretty good inside track to an AEI sinecure.


Julio, sometimes I think you just like to argue and take unnecessary offense at someone who doesn't have your view...

You remember incorrectly. I barely remember Ayaan Hirsi Ali and wouldn't have pimped her, her being an atheist and all. And for the life of me I can't remember a Wafa Sultan, so I seriously doubt I've relentless posted about him. And anyway, I'm not the right-wing media that you said was gleeful and relentless in their promotion of these apostates.

And again, Evans gave you the answers you are asking about. There's no need to find some sinister motive behind his blog.

[zitothebrave]

Zito, you might want to read the following:

Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postchristianity)


The term is pretty much standard fare today - and reflects you and what you'd want our society to be fairly well. No?

That is what I want but we are super far from that. I mean we have money that says "In God We Trust" a pledge of allegiance "one nation, under God" and I could go on.

Maybe the coutnry is faux-Christian, but there is still a healthy chunk of evangelicals who manipulate the laws of the land.

[BedellBrave]

That is what I want but we are super far from that. I mean we have money that says "In God We Trust" a pledge of allegiance "one nation, under God" and I could go on.

Maybe the coutnry is faux-Christian, but there is still a healthy chunk of evangelicals who manipulate the laws of the land.


It's what we are. You guys need to get over your Christian boogieman fear. You play it up to be a far greater influence than it is. As more and more elections and polls show we certainly are in an era of declining orthodox Christian influence and to laugh at that truth is well, just silly.

Maybe you are just prey to liberal fear mongers. :winking0016:

[Metaphysicist]

Haven't read it yet - it's still a new release and I'm working my way thru three other books now. But that said, my friend here gives pretty much what I'll likely think when I do read it.

Link (http://theecclesialcalvinist.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/move-over-drs-oz-and-zakaria-here-comes-dr-aslan/)

But he didn't read it either.

Anyway, it's a pop-religion work, not a scholarly piece of research. I think criticizing him for rehashing other thinkers comes off as a bit exacting.

[BedellBrave]

In other words, you are winning, so stop your whining and cheer up! :icon_biggrin:

[BedellBrave]

But he didn't read it either.

Anyway, it's a pop-religion work, not a scholarly piece of research. I think criticizing him for rehashing other thinkers comes off as a bit exacting.


Nawwh, I think it helpful because the uninitiated think this is some sexy new thing from an expert in the field. And not exacting when Aslan presented himself and his research the way that he did in the "interview."

[BedellBrave]

Dang, this thread is becoming like the good old days!

[zitothebrave]

It's what we are. You guys need to get over your Christian boogieman fear. You play it up to be a far greater influence than it is. As more and more elections and polls show we certainly are in an era of declining orthodox Christian influence and to laugh at that truth is well, just silly.

Maybe you are just prey to liberal fear mongers. :winking0016:

It's not Christians that scare me, but any organized religion. Christians, Muslims, ***s, etc. Give a relgion enough power and they can destroy anything they want to.

[Julio3000]

Julio, sometimes I think you just like to argue and take unnecessary offense at someone who doesn't have your view...

You remember incorrectly. I barely remember Ayaan Hirsi Ali and wouldn't have pimped her, her being an atheist and all. And for the life of me I can't remember a Wafa Sultan, so I seriously doubt I've relentless posted about him. And anyway, I'm not the right-wing media that you said was gleeful and relentless in their promotion of these apostates.

And again, Evans gave you the answers you are asking about. There's no need to find some sinister motive behind his blog.

You remember incorrectly.

I'm pretty sure I don't. For a while in the old board you were fairly regularly linking to coverage of folks who were doing the anti-Islam circuit. Orianna Fallaci was another one (though not a muslim apostate), although you disclaimed some of her other politics and, like Ali, her atheism.

Wafa Sultan is a woman, and I specifically remember your linking to and cheerleading for her. Something like "Go Wafa Sultan!," with the name hotlinked.

So I'm pretty sure you did, but I could certainly be mistaken. I'm fallible, but I have a reeaaaallly good memory. :-)

Evans gave you the answers you are asking about

Is Fareed Zakaria an affirmative action hire? Is Mehmet Oz a celebrity because of his heritage? Those are the implications. If they're not, then you and the blogger are saying "dog bites man," and I don't get it.

So, it's at best dismissive. If he wants to say that Reza Aslan's scholarship is meh, that's fine. He's better qualified to judge. But in connecting him to the other two guys, he seems to be saying something else. If that something is not viewed as problematic, I don't understand why he wrote it, or you linked it.

[jpx7]

Nawwh, I think it helpful because the uninitiated think this is some sexy new thing from an expert in the field. And not exacting when Aslan presented himself and his research the way that he did in the "interview."

I haven't read Aslan, so I'm stealing this gloss from someone I know from the University who's more acquainted, but most scholars in Near Eastern and Religious Studies fields seem to find him to be a "B- scholar with A+ marketing." Nonetheless: those are the sorts of academics who almost always sell books in large volume and find themselves doing cable-news interviews, so I'm not sure there's much utility bemoaning that "the uninitiated think this is some sexy new thing from an expert in the field" because that's pretty much par for the course.

[yeezus]

Post-christian America?
*** people can't get married, and people can't get abortions because of what people think the Bible says. Those two things come directly from religion.
When a non-christian has even a remote shot at president, then we'll be getting somewhere. I don't care personally if a president is christian or non-christian, but the fact that even a great candidate who's non-christian would have zero shot shows we are far from "post-christian" america.

[Julio3000]

I haven't read Aslan, so I'm stealing this gloss from someone I know from the University who's more acquainted, but most scholars in Near Eastern and Religious Studies fields seem to find him to be a "B- scholar with A+ marketing." Nonetheless: those are the sorts of academics who almost always sell books in large volume and find themselves doing cable-news interviews, so I'm not sure there's much utility bemoaning that "the uninitiated think this is some sexy new thing from an expert in the field" because that's pretty much par for the course.

^ Yep. ^

[BedellBrave]

It's not Christians that scare me, but any organized religion. Christians, Muslims, ***s, etc. Give a relgion enough power and they can destroy anything they want to.

Give the person who doesn't think he's religious enough power and he can destroy anything he wants.....

[BedellBrave]

You remember incorrectly.

I'm pretty sure I don't. For a while in the old board you were fairly regularly linking to coverage of folks who were doing the anti-Islam circuit. Orianna Fallaci was another one (though not a muslim apostate), although you disclaimed some of her other politics and, like Ali, her atheism.

Wafa Sultan is a woman, and I specifically remember your linking to and cheerleading for her. Something like "Go Wafa Sultan!," with the name hotlinked.

So I'm pretty sure you did, but I could certainly be mistaken. I'm fallible, but I have a reeaaaallly good memory. :-)

Evans gave you the answers you are asking about

Is Fareed Zakaria an affirmative action hire? Is Mehmet Oz a celebrity because of his heritage? Those are the implications. If they're not, then you and the blogger are saying "dog bites man," and I don't get it.

So, it's at best dismissive. If he wants to say that Reza Aslan's scholarship is meh, that's fine. He's better qualified to judge. But in connecting him to the other two guys, he seems to be saying something else. If that something is not viewed as problematic, I don't understand why he wrote it, or you linked it.

Funny, you'd think that if I was relentlessly pimping folks then I'd remember. I also think you and I have different definitions of "relentlessly pimping."

Also, I'm not sure why you want to be so reductionistic with the last part of Evans blog. He gave a much fuller picture than you act like he does.

[BedellBrave]

I haven't read Aslan, so I'm stealing this gloss from someone I know from the University who's more acquainted, but most scholars in Near Eastern and Religious Studies fields seem to find him to be a "B- scholar with A+ marketing." Nonetheless: those are the sorts of academics who almost always sell books in large volume and find themselves doing cable-news interviews, so I'm not sure there's much utility bemoaning that "the uninitiated think this is some sexy new thing from an expert in the field" because that's pretty much par for the course.

That's assessment of him I think is fair. Yet, nevertheless as one with a vested interest in the subject matter then I think it's reasonable for me to bemoan a little. To be honest it's irritating.

[BedellBrave]

Post-christian America?
*** people can't get married, and people can't get abortions because of what people think the Bible says. Those two things come directly from religion.
When a non-christian has even a remote shot at president, then we'll be getting somewhere. I don't care personally if a president is christian or non-christian, but the fact that even a great candidate who's non-christian would have zero shot shows we are far from "post-christian" america.


Try making a few distinctions.

1. PostChristian =/= no residual or even present influence

2. Saying one is "Christian" =/= being an orthodox Christian

3. Present law of some states =/= the current trends across the nation

4. What you think is getting there =/= Post-Christian

Quit your whining. Smile. Be happy. You are winning.

[zitothebrave]

Give the person who doesn't think he's religious enough power and he can destroy anything he wants.....

Record books indicate more people dying in the name of God vs people killing in the name of not God.

[BedellBrave]

Record books indicate more people dying in the name of God vs people killing in the name of not God.


Blah, blah, blah.

[yeezus]

Try making a few distinctions.

1. PostChristian =/= no residual or even present influence

2. Saying one is "Christian" =/= being an orthodox Christian

3. Present law of some states =/= the current trends across the nation

4. What you think is getting there =/= Post-Christian

Quit your whining. Smile. Be happy. You are winning.

Post christian implies that all religions are equal and christianity doesn't heavily influence things.
I know we are moving away from it as we should, but we are far from "post christian."

[BedellBrave]

For yeezus:


Zito, you might want to read the following:

Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postchristianity)


The term is pretty much standard fare today - and reflects you and what you'd want our society to be fairly well. No?

[zitothebrave]

Blah, blah, blah.

Quality response as usual. It's like you can't see the plank in your own eye.

[jpx7]

Yet, nevertheless as one with a vested interest in the subject matter then I think it's reasonable for me to bemoan a little. To be honest it's irritating.

Sure, it's a bit irritating. But that's like me complaining that the only time Shakespeare is discussed popularly is when some half-assed scholar writes a book wondering if he was secretly eight black lesbian [members of the Tribe of Judah] (or else when there's an insubstantial, glitter-choked Baz-Luhrmann-style adaptation of one of the plays being released in the cinemas). It won't, as they say, change how mustard tastes.

[Dalyn]

Sure, it's a bit irritating. But that's like me complaining that the only time Shakespeare is discussed popularly is when some half-assed scholar writes a book wondering if he was secretly eight black lesbian ***s (or else when there's an insubstantial, glitter-choked Baz Luhrmann-style adaptation of a play being released in the cinemas). It won't, as they say, change how mustard tastes.

I like honey mustard.

[yeezus]

I like honey mustard.

Where did he say anything about honey mustard? No one was talking about that.
You always change the argument.

[BedellBrave]

Quality response as usual. It's like you can't see the plank in your own eye.


Of course Zito, you know that's not my "usual" type of response. But your "religious folks kill a lot of people" is tiresome. It's such an overgeneralization that's it's not very useful, imho. And it's implied premise - that there are irreligious people - I, as I've noted in plenty of Pulpit threads, discount.

[BedellBrave]

I like honey mustard.

I like Dijon and brown and yellow!

[BedellBrave]

Sure, it's a bit irritating. But that's like me complaining that the only time Shakespeare is discussed popularly is when some half-assed scholar writes a book wondering if he was secretly eight black lesbian [members of the Tribe of Judah] (or else when there's an insubstantial, glitter-choked Baz-Luhrmann-style adaptation of one of the plays being released in the cinemas). It won't, as they say, change how mustard tastes.


Indulge me then if you would friend.

[jpx7]

Indulge me then if you would friend.

I certainly will — I just think the uninitiated will always believe there are these sexy new things from supposed experts in various field, and more often than not: (a) those texts are going to be reductive retread analyses at best, and (b) those will be the texts that sell and the authors that make the cable-news rounds.

[elmonthc]

Religious discussions never end bad.

[JohnAdcox]

I HAVE read the book, and as a fan of Aslan's No God But God, I was disappointed. Too much is given as fact, such as the existence of the Q source, that has other possible, or even more likely, explanations. Alas, there is really nothing new.

[Dalyn]

Where did he say anything about honey mustard? No one was talking about that.
You always change the argument.

He clearly mentions mustard.

[Dalyn]

I don't think we are seeing a post-Christian world so much as Christianity is morphing into something unrecognizable (to pros such as Bedell, and to the loyal opposition such as myself).

[BedellBrave]

A nice piece by Douthat here: link (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/opinion/sunday/douthat-return-of-the-jesus-wars.html?_r=1&).

[50PoundHead]

Thanks for linking that BedellBrave. Douthat is a very good writer with a ton of insight.

I keep reminding everyone I'm getting old and as a pretty serious Christian (and political liberal--figure that one out), Aslan's book is really nothing new. I thought the interviewer did a real disservice in continuing to harp on his being a Muslim. People from just about every religious persuasion are interested in Jesus (even the ones who don't follow him). What wears me out is the seemingly consistent effort to categorize Jesus and his work politically. Aslan's not the first guy to try that (I've got about five books in my library that pretty much take the same approach) and I wish people of all stripes would just stop with that.

[jpx7]

What wears me out is the seemingly consistent effort to categorize Jesus and his work politically. [...] and I wish people of all stripes would just stop with that.

Why? I find it hard not to consider the writings regarding Jesus through the a political lens.

Maybe the crux is our definitions of "political"? As someone who studied Attic Greek and, more generally, texts of the Greek and Roman antiquity, I personally have a pretty etymologically originalist understanding of "politics" as that which concerns and characterizes the polity – the res publica; how to live as the inherently and necessarily political animals that we humans are – and it seems that a great deal of the words of Christ (at least as they're recorded) are pretty overtly political in that sense.

[BedellBrave]

I actually agree with both of you. Maybe I'd put it that this anachronistic and narrow sort of politicizing of Jesus gets old. I think the Jesus of Scripture actually challenges every aspect of who we are as fallen human beings - including our politics (whatever the name on the jersey). Our "Jesus" usually looks too much like us.

[50PoundHead]

I actually agree with both of you. Maybe I'd put it that this anachronistic and narrow sort of politicizing of Jesus gets old. I think the Jesus of Scripture actually challenges every aspect of who we are as fallen human beings - including our politics (whatever the name on the jersey). Our "Jesus" usually looks too much like us.

You've stated it well BedellBrave.

jpx7, I"m just not much on folks trying to force the "rebel Jesus" (and his message) into a neat political box that, like BedellBrave says, often mirrors what is in the mind of the interpreter. I get that. We are all captives of our own experience. Parts of Jesus' message were certainly revolutionary in that they were other-worldly in a time when most religion stayed closely to the ground and the "here and now." Much ***ish rejection of Christ is that he wasn't in the "here and now" enough.

[Oklahomahawk]

I like Dijon and brown and yellow!

Jalapeno mustard is even better, any spicy mustard really. I'll bet habanero mustard would be killer!!!

[pfiggy]

At the least an instant tonsillectomy.......

[Oklahomahawk]

At the least an instant tonsillectomy.......

Pfigster, I always took you to be man's man, a real man who could eat anything, no matter how spicy and just laugh at the heat. Did I misunderestimate you???

[50PoundHead]

Pfigster, I always took you to be man's man, a real man who could eat anything, no matter how spicy and just laugh at the heat. Did I misunderestimate you???

I'll tell you guys a true story. My son-in-law knows I like hot sauce and brought some back with him from vacation as a gift. I can't remember the name, but it was advertised as "super hot." Bold purveyor of all things spicy that I thought myself to be, I doused some on my meal and took one bite. Jumping Jehoshaphat! I sprang from my chair flapping my arms like a schoolgirl at a pep rally and downed a huge glass of water to no effect. I seriously ran to the freezer and grabbed a bag of frozen peas to cool my mouth (an action of which I am reminded by my wife at uncomfortable junctures). Again, no effect. But then, I get the heaves because the stuff is so freaking hot I can't keep the food down. So I'm poised over the porcelain, alternating between losing my first few bites of dinner and trying to cool my mouth with the frozen peas. All the while, my eyes are watering like Niagara Falls and my sinuses are draining faster than the Nationals' pennant chances.

I will pretty much be staying in the range of my old reliable Frank's Red Hot from this point forward.

[pfiggy]

Pfigster, I always took you to be man's man, a real man who could eat anything, no matter how spicy and just laugh at the heat. Did I misunderestimate you???

Yes sir you did, I'm a gurl in heat........

Thanks for the laugh big head.......