Trade Deadline Day

[bravesnumberone]

Thought today might warrant its own thread. Quiet so far today.

[The Chosen One]

Was just going to make this thread. Of course if the Braves get anyone, it will be in a separate thread.

[Heyward]

Braves trade for David Price, per Rosenthal.

[bravesnumberone]

Bowman seems to think we'll stand pat for the rest of the day.

[Heyward]

Bowman seems to think we'll stand pat for the rest of the day.

I'm not expecting nothing huge, but I'd like another righty out of the pen.

They shouldn't cost that much like a Qualls or Lindstrom.

[Dunit24]

Consider the source but Bill Shanks tends to think we could get Bonifacio for not a lot.

For some reason, im really hoping we get him.

[bravesnumberone]

Braves probably will wait until August to pick anything else up. I read last night the Padres would "have to be inspired" to give up Gregerson or Thatcher.

[50PoundHead]

Doesn't appear to be a lot of buzz out there. Michael Young announced he would accept a trade to the Red Sox, so that might happen.

I'd like Bonafacio as well. Kind of a poor man's Omar Infante. Boy, next to the Nationals, the Blue Jays have to be the most disappointing team in baseball this season. They looked like they were loading up, but the gunpowder got wet. Wonder what the Jays would want for Macier Izturis.

[bravesnumberone]

Does Mark DeRosa have anything left in the tank? I know he's not a lefty but is versatile.

[50PoundHead]

Does Mark DeRosa have anything left in the tank? I know he's not a lefty but is versatile.

He's had a nice comeback season.

[Grayson Dawg]

EB > Janish? Offensively no doubt. Defensively not sure if EB could be even a fill in for Simba and Andrelton will need some rest. Losing Pena really hurt more than most people outside of the ATL realized.
Too bad Pastornicky can't field because he would be a good replacment.


Consider the source but Bill Shanks tends to think we could get Bonifacio for not a lot.

For some reason, im really hoping we get him.

[clvclv]

Cafardo hearing we're still talking to the Astros about Norris.

Find that a little odd.

[sentenza]

The cards still looking for a catcher now.
I hope we will not hear Brian's name in the next hours!

[The Chosen One]

Does Mark DeRosa have anything left in the tank? I know he's not a lefty but is versatile.

I'd love for DeRo to come back. After that terrible ACL tear he had.

[bravesnumberone]

Yeah, I'll pass.

[Mad Dog Murph]

I think Bonafacio would be a nice pickup. It's a crappy market, so I am not expecting much...

[bravesnumberone]

I'd love for DeRo to come back. After that terrible ACL tear he had.

I'm saying I'd rather have him than Bonifacio. Plus, as long as we continue to have a lead and don't falter, we could add an extra lefty bench bat like Terdo for the postseason roster.

[Heyward]

The cards still looking for a catcher now.
I hope we will not hear Brian's name in the next hours!

I'd trade them Laird.

Doubtful they are looking for much more than a backup type.

[bravesnumberone]

The cards still looking for a catcher now.
I hope we will not hear Brian's name in the next hours!

I'll take Adam Wainright, please and thank you.

[50PoundHead]

EB > Janish? Offensively no doubt. Defensively not sure if EB could be even a fill in for Simba and Andrelton will need some rest. Losing Pena really hurt more than most people outside of the ATL realized.
Too bad Pastornicky can't field because he would be a good replacment.

I think Bonifacio brings a lot of versatility to the table and has a couple of traits we lack right now. Janish would be a short drive away in Gwinnett, so in the event Simmons went down for an extended period, he could be back. I think it's all about having a hot August and giving guys rest in September.

[sturg33]

I'd gladly give up a few marignal prospects for Norris if his price has dropped

[sentenza]

I'd trade them Laird.

Doubtful they are looking for much more than a backup type.

I think it can be Kelly Shoppach!
He's a free agent now!

[Heyward]

Wouldn't mind Norris but he's not that big of an upgrade over our current starters.

Would still like Frank to get another righty from the bullpen.

[SidSlid92]

DOB just tweeted that we weren't in on any SP in this limited market. Sounds like we would only take a definite upgrade, or we'll stand pat.

[Lville21]

I would like another relief pitcher just so the Braves can get rid of one of: Carpenter/Varvaro/Ayala

I know when Maholm comes back, one of those will go down, so Wood will be in the pen. Another reliever means we only have to carry one of the above three. My pick would be Carpenter to fill in for Martinez' role like he has done thus far. I don't care too much for Varvaro or Ayala.

[Heyward]

I would like another relief pitcher just so the Braves can get rid of one of: Carpenter/Varvaro/Ayala

I know when Maholm comes back, one of those will go down, so Wood will be in the pen. Another reliever means we only have to carry one of the above three. My pick would be Carpenter to fill in for Martinez' role like he has done thus far. I don't care too much for Varvaro or Ayala.

Basically the same, Walden is the only righty who is solid in high leverage situations.

Don't mind Varvaro but more around the 6th inning.

[bravesnumberone]

I would imagine any reliever or bench bat we get will probably come in August. If we do anything today, it'll likely be a SP.

[jdunn]

Basically the same, Walden is the only righty who is solid in high leverage situations.

Don't mind Varvaro but more around the 6th inning.

Carpenter has grown on me. Especially after the work he did against Colorado the other night.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Just saw something about the Braves being back on Bud Norris. And just mentioned on MLB Network

[CrimsonCowboy]

And just as I sent that last post in, Rosenthal says the Braves are not in on Norris and never have been

[bravesnumberone]

Maybe the price has shortened on Norris, and Wren thinks he might can buy low, and he'll have a little more success in the NL East as opposed to the AL West. I don't think he'd be any better than what we've got at the top, but as we've learned, depth doesn't hurt.

[sentenza]

Just saw something about the Braves being back on Bud Norris. And just mentioned on MLB Network

Rosenthal:
Sources: #Braves are not on Bud Norris. Never have been.

[bravesnumberone]

It's always funny to me how these baseball writers can get drastically different info from sources.

[O'Dandelo]

Not keen to see renewed interest in Bud Norris. Looking at his career stats again, I can't help but feel he's not even an upgrade over Maholm. That's debatable, I suppose.

Edit: Rosenthal just Tweeted that he's hearing the Braves aren't and haven't been in on Bud Norris, contrary to earlier reports today. Whew.

[CrimsonCowboy]

At this point, I'll be really surprised if the Braves do anything today. I think they checked off their big thing by getting Downs

[Heyward]

Carpenter has grown on me. Especially after the work he did against Colorado the other night.

I agree but I think of him as more of a 6th-7th inning guy. We need another high leverage righty IMO but always the August waiver deadline too.

[bravesnumberone]

Bowman adamant we aren't in on Norris and never have been either.

[PawPawMaxwell]

I would like another relief pitcher just so the Braves can get rid of one of: Carpenter/Varvaro/Ayala

I know when Maholm comes back, one of those will go down, so Wood will be in the pen. Another reliever means we only have to carry one of the above three. My pick would be Carpenter to fill in for Martinez' role like he has done thus far. I don't care too much for Varvaro or Ayala.
Unless one of the current starters gets hurt or the lead starts dwindling, dont expect Maholm to come back til September.

[Pugfan]

Just stack your lineup with lefties and Norris is toast. Not sure why anybody would want him except for a 5th starter.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Reading some stuff where the Rangers are open to trading Garza, who they just got.

[SidSlid92]

Sounds like Gregerson may be going to ARI in a Kennedy deal. If so, Steve Delabar from TOR would be my main RP target.

[Heyward]

Reading some stuff where the Rangers are open to trading Garza, who they just got.

Would find that really unlikely.

[clvclv]

Do kinda like the idea of adding Wilhelmsen to the pen since the Mariners are now listening on both he and Perez. Would be nice to have an extra power arm like that.

I always thought Wren's interest in Norris was overstated. That said, you COULD imagine that what interest there was might've been to use him out of the pen and only as a starter IF one of the other SPs struggles, Maholm's injury limits him, or they wanted to go to a 6-man rotation for one or two passes to limit wear on Julio/Beachy/Wood.

[jpx7]

Sounds like Gregerson may be going to ARI in a Kennedy deal. If so, Steve Delabar from TOR would be my main RP target.

Braves fans already helped substantially in voting him into the All-Star game, so this would seem like the natural next step.

[bravesnumberone]

Marlon Byrd chatter apparently.

[The Chosen One]

Marlon Byrd chatter apparently.

For us? Why?!? :confused:

[bravesnumberone]

For us? Why?!? :confused:

No for other teams. Idk who.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Ian Kennedy/Joe Thatcher trade now official

[Heyward]

Ian Kennedy to the Padres for Joe Thatcher, a double A prospect, and draft pick compensation.

[bravesnumberone]

Still leaves Gregerson out there for the taking.

[bravesnumberone]

Jayson Stark says odds of Bud Norris being traded up to 75 percent with multiple teams still involved.

[SidSlid92]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 16s

Source: #Padres “probably will not” move Gregerson after sending Thatcher to #DBacks in Kennedy deal.

[sentenza]

Jerry Starke says odds of Bud Norris being traded up to 75 percent with multiple teams still involved.

http://web0.vps20627.alfahosting-vps.de/Smileys/default/icon_facepalm.gif

[bravesnumberone]

Cards just put Molina on DL. Let's give them Laird for Sam Holbrook

:icwudt:

[sentenza]

Cards just put Molina on DL. Let's give them Laird for Sam Holbrook

:icwudt:


I think they will sign Kelly Shoppach, you is a free agent!

[weso1]

Some dude on mlb network said Hughes is out there. Wouldn't be a bad gamble depending on what we gave up.

[SidSlid92]

Some dude on mlb network said Hughes is out there. Wouldn't be a bad gamble depending on what we gave up.

Much better on the road than at Yankee Stadium, moving from AL to NL; but as you said, price would have to be low.

[bravesnumberone]

At the risk of sounding like Murph, what about a three-way deal, where we get Hughes, Yanks get Juan Francisco and Brewers get Idk.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Royals have acquired Justin Maxwell from the Astros, per Rosenthal

[jpx7]

Ian Kennedy to the Padres for Joe Thatcher, a double A prospect, and draft pick compensation.

Kennedy is a good bounce-back gamble for the Padres, especially moving to Petco.

[Julio3000]

Ian Kennedy to the Padres for Joe Thatcher, a double A prospect, and draft pick compensation.

I like that move for them.

[nsacpi]

We should trade with the Diamondbacks and Angels whenever possible.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Pirates asked the Angels about Mark Trumbo

[gilesfan]

The D-Backs have made some good trades though. And they had to get rid of Kennedy so they are lucky to get anything for him.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Bud Norris close to being traded to the Orioles

[bravesnumberone]

Looks like Norris going to Baltimore.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Really surprised the Phillies are standing pat it appears

[elmonthc]

Really surprised the Phillies are standing pat it appears

Phillies are asking for ml ready players.

They have billions of tv dollars coming soon when tjeir deal expires. So they dont want to rebuild.

[50PoundHead]

Really surprised the Phillies are standing pat it appears

I thought they'd move Young for sure.

[Dunit24]

Im hoping Phillies stand pat. Last thing I want is that club to get rid of its old geezers and pick up some young studs along with having a ton of money to spend.

[jpx7]

I thought they'd move Young for sure.

That's the Phillies player I'm really surprised wasn't jettisoned; he's not part of their old-guard nucleus, and it was sort of a silly trade for an aging, defense-poor NL team to make anyways.

[57Brave]

from twitter:

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 6m
RT @tcmusick: Is this even legal?

RT @Ken_Rosenthal
Orioles agree to acquire Norris from #Astros for Hoes and another piece. Finalizing now.

[gilesfan]

I thought they'd move Young for sure.

He has a no trade clause and only wants to go Red Sox/Yankees

[Bye Week]

The Phillies are idiots.

[Dunit24]

This has got to be the worst trade deadline ever. Not a lot of action.

[Julio3000]

from twitter:

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 6m
RT @tcmusick: Is this even legal?

RT @Ken_Rosenthal
Orioles agree to acquire Norris from #Astros for Hoes and another piece. Finalizing now.

A trade involving Hoes is twitter nirvana. Possibilites=endless.

[bravesnumberone]

Orioles have done a pretty good job, I'd say.

[Krovahn]

This has got to be the worst trade deadline ever. Not a lot of action.

Second year of having two wild card teams; this is the fallout as more teams are still in it... not looking to sell off yet.

[57Brave]

I kinda liked it. Nats and Phillies are the same they were 24 hours ago. (overrated in spots - old in the other spots) - apparently thinking they either have a chance this year as they are or will massively rebuild over the winter.

Meaning to me the Braves own the East for at least two more years.

[gilesfan]

I kinda liked it. Nats and Phillies are the same they were 24 hours ago. (overrated in spots - old in the other spots) - apparently thinking they either have a chance this year as they are or will massively rebuild over the winter.

Meaning to me the Braves own the East for at least two more years.

Outside of Young and Lee, who would either team trade?

More specifically, who would the Nats trade? Laroche? Werth (no one would trade for him). Anyone else?

[Heyward]

This has got to be the worst trade deadline ever. Not a lot of action.

Blame Selig for having two wild cards.

Has more teams thinking they are in it now.

[Heyward]

Outside of Young and Lee, who would either team trade?

More specifically, who would the Nats trade? Laroche? Werth (no one would trade for him). Anyone else?

Agree Philly can't really trade much.

Nats, Span/ Storen.

[50PoundHead]

I kinda liked it. Nats and Phillies are the same they were 24 hours ago. (overrated in spots - old in the other spots) - apparently thinking they either have a chance this year as they are or will massively rebuild over the winter.

Meaning to me the Braves own the East for at least two more years.

I can understand that approach for the Nats, but Young is simply taking ABs away from Asche with likely only a marginal upgrade in performance.

[The Chosen One]

Blame Selig for having two wild cards.

Has more teams thinking they are in it now.

Is that really a bad thing though?

Is more increased activity at the trade deadline a positive for MLB?

[50PoundHead]

Color me surprised that Morneau hasn't been moved. Still seven minutes left though.

[57Brave]

Phils dont have anyone anybody wants (Dom Brown -maybe) - and the Nats would have to blow up their team and start over. Which to my mind wouldn't be a bad idea.
And there they only have overrated Zimmerman and Desmond who is the only player they should keep. Harper???

Imagine Strasberg in pinstripes or Dodger blue! Except the Dodgers and Yankess dont have anything to offer like the Phillies

[Dunit24]

Actually I dont really mind there not being a lot of movement. Braves have one of the best teams and that doesnt look like it will change. No one competing with us got any better.

[gilesfan]

Agree Philly can't really trade much.

Nats, Span/ Storen.

Span is making 3 million this year and is like 29, why would they trade him? Who would play center next year?

Storen.....what?

[jpx7]

He has a no trade clause and only wants to go Red Sox/Yankees

I'm pretty sure he would have gone to Texas, as well, but regardless I'm still surprised he wasn't traded even with the constraints on destination.

[Dunit24]

Phils dont have anyone anybody wants (Dom Brown -maybe) - and the Nats would have to blow up their team and start over. Which to my mind wouldn't be a bad idea.
And there they only have overrated Zimmerman and Desmond who is the only player they should keep. Harper???

Imagine Strasberg in pinstripes or Dodger blue! Except the Dodgers and Yankess dont have anything to offer like the Phillies

The Nats are talented but they just cant handle the pressure. Everything was gold whenever everyone expected them to suck and they could sneak up on teams. Now with a ton of pressure, they havent been able to live up to expectations. Maybe it will be a different story next season bc the talent is clearly there, but I just dont see them being any better unless they really improve that bullpen.

I remember someone on here arguing with me that the Nats bullpen was better than the Braves. I said no way. We lost EOF and Venters and we are still clearly better.

[50PoundHead]

He has a no trade clause and only wants to go Red Sox/Yankees

And that's where I thought he'd end up going. From the article I read this morning, he was willing to go back to Texas and yesterday said he'd accept a trade to the Red Sox.

[jpx7]

I remember someone on here arguing with me that the Nats bullpen was better than the Braves.

I wonder who that was ...

[The Chosen One]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal)2m (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/362663074982928385)
Hearing # (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Yankees&src=hash)Braves making huge push with # (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Yankees&src=hash)SFGiants for Lincecum and Lopez at the last second.

[weso1]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal)2m (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/362663074982928385)
Hearing # (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Yankees&src=hash)Braves making huge push with # (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Yankees&src=hash)SFGiants for Lincecum and Lopez at the last second.

That would be good. I'd like that.

[The Chosen One]

That would be good. I'd like that.
lol weso. :cooter:

[gilesfan]

I wonder who that was ...

Me. I was actually saying the back 3 were similar. And I thought they were until Storen crashed this year.

[gilesfan]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal)2m (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/362663074982928385)
Hearing # (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Yankees&src=hash)Braves making huge push with # (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Yankees&src=hash)SFGiants for Lincecum and Lopez at the last second.


Oh gawdddd Lincecum. What a terrible idea.

[Dunit24]

Im not seeing that anywhere regarding Lincecum.

[The Chosen One]

Im not seeing that anywhere regarding Lincecum.
:icwudt:

[The Chosen One]

And heressss my time to exit.

Happy Trading Deadline Day Everyone! :eusa_dance:

[Heyward]

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal)2m (https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/362663074982928385)
Hearing # (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Yankees&src=hash)Braves making huge push with # (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Yankees&src=hash)SFGiants for Lincecum and Lopez at the last second.

Fake account.

[Krovahn]

Oh gawdddd Lincecum. What a terrible idea.Terribly awesome idea. His antics, along with FFs in the dugout.. it would be complete hilarity.

[jpx7]

Me. I was actually saying the back 3 were similar. And I thought they were until Storen crashed this year.

http://thebyronicmandotcom2.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/thegf2-michael-fredo-fight.png

[weso1]

lol weso. :cooter:

:icwudt:

[gilesfan]

The Nats are talented but they just cant handle the pressure. Everything was gold whenever everyone expected them to suck and they could sneak up on teams. Now with a ton of pressure, they havent been able to live up to expectations. Maybe it will be a different story next season bc the talent is clearly there, but I just dont see them being any better unless they really improve that bullpen.

I remember someone on here arguing with me that the Nats bullpen was better than the Braves. I said no way. We lost EOF and Venters and we are still clearly better.

I remember you and Heyward telling me the Braves were going to win the division last year as well.

[elmonthc]

Im surprised texas didnt go after dunn or pence. Dunn had no intetest from any teams at all. In that ball park he could have had an impact.

Why didnt seattle trade anyone? Strange.

Teams.dont want to trade spects at all.

[Heyward]

Span is making 3 million this year and is like 29, why would they trade him? Who would play center next year?

Storen.....what?

Sign Choo or Ellsbury this winter.

Why not?

[Heyward]

I remember you and Heyward telling me the Braves were going to win the division last year as well.

I think I said Philly would but don't remember.

[Dunit24]

I remember you and Heyward telling me the Braves were going to win the division last year as well.

Sucks being wrong doesnt it?

and I just recall basically saying the Nats were lucky and got a ton of breaks. I think this year actually proves me right, so there..:catfight:

[gilesfan]

Sucks being wrong doesnt it?


Not really. Does it suck for you?

[CrimsonCowboy]

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 21s
#SFGiants do nothing, as @Joelsherman1 reported. they are not alone. #tradedeadline

[elmonthc]

The nats seem to have no holes but arent playing well. Should have pitched strasburg last year

[Dunit24]

Not really. Does it suck for you?

Nope, not at all. Last yr was last yr. Nationals glory days.
Braves are clearly better.

[SidSlid92]

With a 10 game lead, not the urgency to make a move, but sure would have liked to add a RP.

[Heyward]

The nats seem to have no holes but arent playing well. Should have pitched strasburg last year

Every team has holes.

But they don't really need to do much.

[weso1]

Braves still should have an opportunity to get another reliever and a bench player in August. I wish we could have gotten an impact starter, but I wasn't expecting it. Lee costs too much and that pretty much just left Peavy as the only option.

[Dunit24]

Any bets that we will hear Fredi and/or Wren say something like, "Well, we are getting Schafer and BJ Upton back, and eventually getting Paul(Maholm) back, so we are virtually getting 3 guys via trade without giving up anything, and it will improve our ballclub."

Twenty bucks...anyone?

[The Chosen One]

Any bets that we will hear Fredi and/or Wren say something like, "Well, we are getting Schafer and BJ Upton back, and eventually getting Paul(Maholm) back, so we are virtually getting 3 guys via trade without giving up anything, and it will improve our ballclub."

Twenty bucks...anyone?

He's certainly learned from Bobby Cox.

[chipchildress]

I'm thrilled the Braves didn't give away their future for a guy that would marginally improve the team at best this year. Maybe Frank is learning.

[NYCBrave]

Any bets that we will hear Fredi and/or Wren say something like, "Well, we are getting Schafer and BJ Upton back, and eventually getting Paul(Maholm) back, so we are virtually getting 3 guys via trade without giving up anything, and it will improve our ballclub."

Twenty bucks...anyone?

LoL exactly!!!!

[NYCBrave]

Outside of Young and Lee, who would either team trade?

More specifically, who would the Nats trade? Laroche? Werth (no one would trade for him). Anyone else?

Why not Utley? And why wouldn't the Mets move Byrd? Neither make any sense

[Dunit24]

Why not Utley? And why wouldn't the Mets move Byrd? Neither make any sense

Im thinking maybe the Mets wanting to keep Byrd for next season. I hate to say it but the Mets are going to be tough to beat in the future. Besides, they might not have gotten any good offers for him.

[nsacpi]

Leave it to the Mets to think Byrd can have a similar season next year.

[cajunrevenge]

I dont know why so many people ride the nats nuts. They werent a great team last year, they arent this year, and without some serious changes they wont be in the near future. They are not underperforming, they over performed last year due to a few career years and timely hitting. If Harper lives up to his potential and hits like an MVP for a full season then they can be good, outside of that their offense is going to suck hard.

[CyYoung31]

I dont know why so many people ride the nats nuts. They werent a great team last year, they arent this year, and without some serious changes they wont be in the near future. They are not underperforming, they over performed last year due to a few career years and timely hitting. If Harper lives up to his potential and hits like an MVP for a full season then they can be good, outside of that their offense is going to suck hard.

Say what you want, but they won 98 games last year. They were a great team and so were the Braves.

[sentenza]

Can we abolish the trading deadline next year!
This one was more than boring!

[CyYoung31]

I love how the extra Wild Card has all but killed the playoff races. It's done the opposite of what it was supposed to do (other than added revenue from extra playoff teams).

Selig is a tool.

[JohnAdcox]

Can we abolish the trading deadline next year!
This one was more than boring!

I think the waiver deadline will be more interesting this year. At least somewhat. Granted, that's not saying a lot.

[Bdawg2309]

I love how the extra Wild Card has all but killed the playoff races. It's done the opposite of what it was supposed to do (other than added revenue from extra playoff teams).

Selig is a tool.

how has it killed the playoff races?

[gilesfan]

The Phils aren't that far off from being a great team and Utley is a cornerstone. It would be like the Braves trading Chipper. I would have certainly traded Young if he would accept, but he really limited them.

[NYCBrave]

Im thinking maybe the Mets wanting to keep Byrd for next season. I hate to say it but the Mets are going to be tough to beat in the future. Besides, they might not have gotten any good offers for him.

He's a free agent in the off season, they could have just signed him back.

[CyYoung31]

how has it killed the playoff races?

The only real race in the NL is the NL West, and it looks like the Dodgers will run away with that in the end. The AL is a different story.

Last year though, the AL races would have been much more exciting without the extra Wild Card.

[bravebonebook]

Boring and disappointing! I could live without a starter (since there really weren't any worthy ones available). But no extra RH reliever or utility guy WITH a bat unlike Janish? Maybe they'll finally abolish the July 31 deadline and just go with a non-waiver trade deadline of August 31 when more teams would be willing to trade.

[jpx7]

Leave it to the Mets to think Byrd can have a similar season next year.

Marlon Byrd tricks a team every other year.

[Orphan Black]

What's up with the O's trading a draft pick...didn't think that could be done in baseball?

[Dalyn]

Lame deadline.

[50PoundHead]

What's up with the O's trading a draft pick...didn't think that could be done in baseball?

The recently-established competitive balance picks can be traded.

[Pugfan]

I didn't know that you could trade draft picks also. I thought I read it wrong when I saw it on the tracker

[stpeteirish]

The recently-established competitive balance picks can be traded.

and so apparently can these international picks because one of them was traded the other way on the same deal.

[yeezus]

Can someone explain to me why every team in the league wouldn't make that trade for Kennedy? How does that improve Arizona?

[yeezus]

The Phils aren't that far off from being a great team and Utley is a cornerstone. It would be like the Braves trading Chipper. I would have certainly traded Young if he would accept, but he really limited them.

How are the Phillies close to being a great team? I'm curious what you see in them.

[thethe]

How are the Phillies close to being a great team? I'm curious what you see in them.

Phillies are done. The Braves biggest threat in the next few years will be the Nats (because of their money) and the Mets (because of their pitching).

[CyYoung31]

Phillies are done. The Braves biggest threat in the next few years will be the Nats (because of their money) and the Mets (because of their pitching).

And their money. Once they get a young core built up, they're going to start buying superstars in free agency to fill the rest of the holes, as they should. Let's just hope they are still as bad with their FA signings as they have been in the past.

[thethe]

And their money. Once they get a young core built up, they're going to start buying superstars in free agency to fill the rest of the holes, as they should. Let's just hope they are still as bad with their FA signings as they have been in the past.

I think there front office is much smarter. Omar was great from the scouting side but as a top guy he was not good to say the least.

The Mets are going to be scary though. While not as good as Harvey (not a diss), Wheeler is a damn good pitcher. His fastball is legit. Syndegard is a top 5 pitching prospect in all of baseball and is still a baby. Then they have a bunch of other candidates to fill out the rest of the rotation. I think they will win 85 games next year. There aren't many solid FA's and they need offense. The good thing is that Wright will decline hopefully in the next 2-3 years so they won't have all this pitching in top form with him in his prime.

Either way, the Braves are loaded as well. Should be a lot of fun.

[Frek21]

Can someone explain to me why every team in the league wouldn't make that trade for Kennedy? How does that improve Arizona?

Grit.

[Carp]

Phillies are done. The Braves biggest threat in the next few years will be the Nats (because of their money) and the Mets (because of their pitching).

Phils are hardly done. They still have money to spend and you can bet they will spend it. Brown is their new Howard. He's going to be a thorn in our side for awhile. They're a borderline .500 team this yr with Halladay out and Hamels having an off yr. They're going to stick around awhile.


I'm with those that say the Nats are/were overrated. Offense aside from Harper and Desmond isn't all that terrific. Zimmerman isn't the offense stud they thought he was. They missed their opportunity last yr when they sat Strasburg

[thethe]

Phils are hardly done. They still have money to spend and you can bet they will spend it. Brown is their new Howard. He's going to be a thorn in our side for awhile. They're a borderline .500 team this yr with Halladay out and Hamels having an off yr. They're going to stick around awhile.


I'm with those that say the Nats are/were overrated. Offense aside from Harper and Desmond isn't all that terrific. Zimmerman isn't the offense stud they thought he was. They missed their opportunity last yr when they sat Strasburg

Cliff Lee is not going to get better. If anything he is going to get wrose. Is Halladay ever going to be a factor again? The guy is not young. The Phillies were great in the late 2000's because of Utley/Howard/Rollins in their prime and getting super lucky with Werth. They don't have it anymore and will need to tear it down and rebuild. They have money but that doesn't assure you anything.

[Dunit24]

I agree that the Phillies are done. If they make the right moves, sure, they could be very good again but thats the case for a lot of teams. I dont see Phillies competiting again until the blow up that roster.

[nsacpi]

Yeah. Phillies are done. Howard, Ruiz, Utley and Rollins are all gone or in their declining years. They don't have much of a farm system. And they have one of the dumber GMs.

[thethe]

Yeah. Phillies are done. Howard, Ruiz, Utley and Rollins are all gone or in their declining years. They don't have much of a farm system. And they have one of the dumber GMs.

I don't even see how its debatable.

[NYCBrave]

I think there front office is much smarter. Omar was great from the scouting side but as a top guy he was not good to say the least.

The Mets are going to be scary though. While not as good as Harvey (not a diss), Wheeler is a damn good pitcher. His fastball is legit. Syndegard is a top 5 pitching prospect in all of baseball and is still a baby. Then they have a bunch of other candidates to fill out the rest of the rotation. I think they will win 85 games next year. There aren't many solid FA's and they need offense. The good thing is that Wright will decline hopefully in the next 2-3 years so they won't have all this pitching in top form with him in his prime.

Either way, the Braves are loaded as well. Should be a lot of fun.

I still don't agree with you on the Mets. The odds that all of these guys pan out and become aces is slim. I wouldn't be surprised if Harvey eventually regressed either. What he's doing right now is historical, and his minor league track record just doesn't back it up (ceiling was supposed to be of a 2). They don't have the pieces in their minors on the hitting side either, and a lot of holes to fill in that lineup. Ike Davis not panning out is a big blow to them, and Wright is hitting 30 now. Plus, their decisions in throwing money at top free agent hitters usually do not turn out well.

[thethe]

I still don't agree with you on the Mets. The odds that all of these guys pan out and become aces is slim. I wouldn't be surprised if Harvey eventually regressed either. What he's doing right now is historical, and his minor league track record just doesn't back it up (ceiling was supposed to be of a 2). They don't have the pieces in their minors on the hitting side either, and a lot of holes to fill in that lineup. Ike Davis not panning out is a big blow to them, and Wright is hitting 30 now. Plus, their decisions in throwing money at top free agent hitters usually do not turn out well.

Their decisions int he past have nothign to do with current front office. They have a bunch of smart guys over there and they haven't shown any track record with the Mets to go on.

I hope you don't find this offensive but have you seen Harvey pitch? I don't care what his minor league projections were...that guy has arguably the best stuff in baseball. He is a legit ace and will be that way for the next 10 years if healthy. He holds his velocity into the 7th & 8th innings. If you haven't seen him pitch then I suggest you do because its a beautiful thing.

[gilesfan]

Hamels is 29 and is clearly an Ace.

Not sure what Halladay has left, he's clearly a question mark. Lee is cruising along at age 34....funny people weren't saying Hudson was done at 34 or 35 or 36 (except me and maybe 1-2 others)

Petibone appears to be a guy that will be in the majors for a long time. They also have a couple good arms in Biddle and Morgan that are close.


A lot of their prospects are major league ready or close. They do not have as many holes as people make it out to seem. They have guys like Ruif (38 hrs last year) and Asche that seem ready to be everyday contributors. Dom Brown finally realized his potential. They have money to spend. They are probably looking for 2 pieces this offseason, C and LF/RF. (Ruif playing OF is possible). What if they sign Brian McCann?

[NYCBrave]

Their decisions int he past have nothign to do with current front office. They have a bunch of smart guys over there and they haven't shown any track record with the Mets to go on.

I hope you don't find this offensive but have you seen Harvey pitch? I don't care what his minor league projections were...that guy has arguably the best stuff in baseball. He is a legit ace and will be that way for the next 10 years if healthy. He holds his velocity into the 7th & 8th innings. If you haven't seen him pitch then I suggest you do because its a beautiful thing.

I live in NYC, of course I've seen him pitch. I know the stuff is amazing. I'm still just baffled that he got this good, doesn't make sense to me because I follow prospecting very closely and you don't usually see people flat out going way above their expected ceiling. I mean "ceiling" absolute best case scenario was a number 2 starter.

[gilesfan]

thethe is even a Mets homer!

They have Harvey...and two guys that have a chance to be pretty good (wheeler is more of a 2/3 starter; Syndergaard is still a ways off)

And Wright with a chance of D'Arnaud being good.


What else?

[nsacpi]

thethe is even a Mets homer!

They have Harvey...and two guys that have a chance to be pretty good (wheeler is more of a 2/3 starter; Syndergaard is still a ways off)

And Wright with a chance of D'Arnaud being good.


What else?

With the Mets, I think a lot turns on finances. How they use the money freed up by the Bay and Santana contracts. The extent to which Wilpon has been damaged by the Madoff saga.

[Dunit24]

Hamels is 29 and is clearly an Ace.

Not sure what Halladay has left, he's clearly a question mark. Lee is cruising along at age 34....funny people weren't saying Hudson was done at 34 or 35 or 36 (except me and maybe 1-2 others)

Petibone appears to be a guy that will be in the majors for a long time. They also have a couple good arms in Biddle and Morgan that are close.


A lot of their prospects are major league ready or close. They do not have as many holes as people make it out to seem. They have guys like Ruif (38 hrs last year) and Asche that seem ready to be everyday contributors. Dom Brown finally realized his potential. They have money to spend. They are probably looking for 2 pieces this offseason, C and LF/RF. (Ruif playing OF is possible). What if they sign Brian McCann?

They need more than just McCann.

[thethe]

thethe is even a Mets homer!

They have Harvey...and two guys that have a chance to be pretty good (wheeler is more of a 2/3 starter; Syndergaard is still a ways off)

And Wright with a chance of D'Arnaud being good.


What else?

How far off is Syndegard really? He is doing very well at AA. He could be in the bigs by June next year. Niese is a solid middle to back end of the rotation starter. Dillon Gee is a good #5. They have Montero/Mejia and some other lesser known arms that are doing well.

I have recognized that their offense is tough right now but when you have the top end arms like they have you are going to be good. Thats why the Braves are good. They have two near aces (Minor/Tehearn) and a host of other 2/3 type pitchers with a guy like Alex Wood who could be slightly better.

Harvey is one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball. Wheeler is aboslutely legit. At worst I see him being a very good #3 but will probably be a borderline ace. I don't know how good Syndergard is but the reports are glowing and the results are even better. The mets are flowing with arms and that is what made the Braves so good the last few years.

[thethe]

With the Mets, I think a lot turns on finances. How they use the money freed up by the Bay and Santana contracts. The extent to which Wilpon has been damaged by the Madoff saga.

The Madoff stuff is supposedly behind them. The Mets have the potential to be extremely profitable. The fanbase is re-energized becuase of Harvey/Wheeler. They will start to spend money when the players out there are worth it.

[thethe]

Hamels is 29 and is clearly an Ace.

Not sure what Halladay has left, he's clearly a question mark. Lee is cruising along at age 34....funny people weren't saying Hudson was done at 34 or 35 or 36 (except me and maybe 1-2 others)

Petibone appears to be a guy that will be in the majors for a long time. They also have a couple good arms in Biddle and Morgan that are close.


A lot of their prospects are major league ready or close. They do not have as many holes as people make it out to seem. They have guys like Ruif (38 hrs last year) and Asche that seem ready to be everyday contributors. Dom Brown finally realized his potential. They have money to spend. They are probably looking for 2 pieces this offseason, C and LF/RF. (Ruif playing OF is possible). What if they sign Brian McCann?

Yes, Hamels is an ace and Lee will still be good but he won't be the Lee of 2 years ago. Petibone is a back of the rotation type guy. Its funny that Ruf is good but Gattis was a nobody coming into this year.

phillies are done.

[gilesfan]

Yes, Hamels is an ace and Lee will still be good but he won't be the Lee of 2 years ago. Petibone is a back of the rotation type guy. Its funny that Ruf is good but Gattis was a nobody coming into this year.

phillies are done.

Last year-

Ruif (25) AA- .317/.408/.620
Gattis (25) AA- .258/.343/.522


Ruif in the majors in limited at bats also has a line of .309/.389/.567
Gattis in the majors (limited at bats) has a line of .258/.308/.514


And don't even look at the numbers in June and July for Gattis. ugh.

[Dunit24]

Numbers support you but 100% id take Gattis over Ruif. I think most people would.

[nsacpi]

Last year-

Ruif (25) AA- .317/.408/.620
Gattis (25) AA- .258/.343/.522


Ruif in the majors in limited at bats also has a line of .309/.389/.567
Gattis in the majors (limited at bats) has a line of .258/.308/.514


And don't even look at the numbers in June and July for Gattis. ugh.

It just amazes me that you continue thinking Gattis' AA numbers from last year are in any way worthy of being used. At least you acknowledge the small sample. But don't you also realize that part of that small sample included some games where he tried to play with an injured wrist and another portion of the sample included games where he was rusty when coming back from the wrist injury.

[thethe]

It just amazes me that you continue thinking Gattis' AA numbers from last year are in any way worthy of being used. At least you acknowledge the small sample. But don't you also realize that part of that small sample included some games where he tried to play with an injured wrist and another portion of the sample included games where he was rusty when coming back from the wrist injury.

Yeah, Gattis was absoultely destroying the ball in AA before he got hurt and started hitting again towards the end of the year. GF just has egg on his face with Gattis so he doesn't want to look even worse. Gattis may not be the hitting star that I thought but he is a major league defensive catcher who can hit 30+ homers in a full season of ball.

Lets use Gattis' major league numbers coming off of an injury as well and not the ones where he was healthy in the year. Gattis is going to be a 5-10 year major leaguer at least.

[nsacpi]

The Madoff stuff is supposedly behind them. The Mets have the potential to be extremely profitable. The fanbase is re-energized becuase of Harvey/Wheeler. They will start to spend money when the players out there are worth it.

I've been to a couple games at Citifield this year. I wouldn't say it is a re-energized fan base.

[gilesfan]

Gattis has an OBP of .308 this year despite his hot start. Give me a break about how he's an offensive star.

I forgot, Ncapi likes to use Venezuelan league numbers:

Add in about 30 games worth over there.

Gattis .303/.365/.595
Ruf .258/.368/.575

There is no way in hell Gattis is a better hitter than Ruf.

[nsacpi]

Gattis has an OBP of .308 this year despite his hot start. Give me a break about how he's an offensive star.

I forgot, Ncapi likes to use Venezuelan league numbers:

Add in about 30 games worth over there.

Gattis .303/.365/.595
Ruf .258/.368/.575

There is no way in hell Gattis is a better hitter than Ruf.

Ruf BABIP this year .436.

Gattis BABIP this year .265.

Draw your own conclusions.

As I recall our debate from a few months ago had to do with whether Gattis' VL numbers would be a better predictor of his ML performance than his SL performance. Thanks for bringing that up.

Would you like to make a bet as to which of Ruf or Gattis will put up the better OPS numbers during the remaining two months of this year?

[thethe]

Evan Gattis is still learning how to hit offspeed stuff. For a guy learning at the major league level he is doing a very good job.

What about his defense GF? Were you wrong about that?

[gilesfan]

Evan Gattis is still learning how to hit offspeed stuff. For a guy learning at the major league level he is doing a very good job.

What about his defense GF? Were you wrong about that?

His defense at catcher has gotten better and is better than I thought. His defense in left or 1B is unacceptable.

[thethe]

His defense at catcher has gotten better and is better than I thought. His defense in left or 1B is unacceptable.

I think he can play a passable LF/1B but not a guy you want out there multiple days in a row.

[gilesfan]

I think he can play a passable LF/1B but not a guy you want out there multiple days in a row.

Ask Kris Medlen what he things

[zitothebrave]

Gattis has an OBP of .308 this year despite his hot start. Give me a break about how he's an offensive star.

I forgot, Ncapi likes to use Venezuelan league numbers:

Add in about 30 games worth over there.

Gattis .303/.365/.595
Ruf .258/.368/.575

There is no way in hell Gattis is a better hitter than Ruf.

While I won't definitively say Gattis>Ruf as both are highly risky.

But if you look at more than just the normal slash

Ruf 11.8 BB% 30.3 K% .188 iso .436 BABIP 19.5 LD%

Gattis 6.2 BB% 22.0 K% .259 iso .265 BABIP 15.9 LD%

So if you extrapolate those numbers you would expect Ruf to have a higher BABIP, but since Gattis puts more BIP his slash line is more along his expected lines while Ruf is way above his. If you normalize his BABIP to say .300 his slash line would be .218/.342/.406

BEAST MODE

[thethe]

Ask Kris Medlen what he things

I didn't say it was good or even avearge. But you can put him out there once a week and make it work. He is learning the position just like he is learning how to hit. He is a very talented baseball player that just hasn't played enough baseball for a man his age.

[gilesfan]

While I won't definitively say Gattis>Ruf as both are highly risky.

But if you look at more than just the normal slash

Ruf 11.8 BB% 30.3 K% .188 iso .436 BABIP 19.5 LD%

Gattis 6.2 BB% 22.0 K% .259 iso .265 BABIP 15.9 LD%

So if you extrapolate those numbers you would expect Ruf to have a higher BABIP, but since Gattis puts more BIP his slash line is more along his expected lines while Ruf is way above his. If you normalize his BABIP to say .300 his slash line would be .218/.342/.406

BEAST MODE

Ruf's BABIP has never even been close to .300. His batting average is certainly going to come down, but he has legit power and an above average eye at the plate. He's going to have higher than normal BABIP bc he's the type of guy that swings and misses alot, but when he makes contact, he hits the ball hard.

[50PoundHead]

Gattis has played better than I thought he would. I still don't see him as a full-time player and I'll admit I could be dead wrong and there's no denying that he's been a lifesaver for the Braves this year given the injuries. If he works on his defense, I see him best suited to be a 350 AB guy catching a few times a week and playing some LF and (even less) 1B. Very good pinch hitter. If the NL adopted the DH, he'd be set.

[gilesfan]

Gattis has played better than I thought he would. I still don't see him as a full-time player and I'll admit I could be dead wrong and there's no denying that he's been a lifesaver for the Braves this year given the injuries. If he works on his defense, I see him best suited to be a 350 AB guy catching a few times a week and playing some LF and (even less) 1B. Very good pinch hitter. If the NL adopted the DH, he'd be set.

I see the same as you. Though, hopefully he gets a little more patient if he wants to start anywhere but catcher.

[nsacpi]

Gattis has played better than I thought he would. I still don't see him as a full-time player and I'll admit I could be dead wrong and there's no denying that he's been a lifesaver for the Braves this year given the injuries. If he works on his defense, I see him best suited to be a 350 AB guy catching a few times a week and playing some LF and (even less) 1B. Very good pinch hitter. If the NL adopted the DH, he'd be set.

That's my take on Gattis too. And btw I see Terdoslavich as being quite similar, except for not being able to play catcher. A bench with those two is a pretty good thing. Good pinch hitting and good cover for the positions where you need some production from your hitters. Add a couple more players who can play short and center, plus a little salt and pepper, stir, taste, and that's a pretty good bench.

[50PoundHead]

I see the same as you. Though, hopefully he gets a little more patient if he wants to start anywhere but catcher.

I think he's a real work in progress. He's not Francoeurish at the plate by any means, but I see him having the issue that his plate coverage is really good and he thinks he can hit pitches he really can't do much with. What has impressed me about Gattis is that he appears to understand hitting. One of the prettiest ABs I've seen all season (and I'll admit I haven't seen all that many) is his long AB against Burke of the Mets where Gattis hit a go-ahead single on a full count by going the other way with a pitch. At least he doesn't swing at balls six inches off the ground like our favorite San Francisco Giant.

Like all young guys, I worry that they'll get a book on Gattis which will force him to make adjustments and whether or not he can do that successfully will determine his big league ceiling. He doesn't have a lot of flaws. He doesn't stride and starts his swing relatively late, but he's unbelievably strong and his bat speed looks good. I'm surprised more teams don't try to bust him inside, but if you miss in there with him, the ball is out of the park.

PS--I agree that with Terdoslavich and Gattis, all you really need to have a good bench is a middle IF who can pick it and someone to back up in CF (someone like Bonifacio fills both those slots). The Braves should hire a hypnotist in the off-season and convince Terdoslavich that there is nothing to fear at 3B so he could at least do a passable job if asked to put a few innings in over there. Benches don't necessarily win divisions or pennants, but they help.

[gilesfan]

I think he's a real work in progress. He's not Francoeurish at the plate by any means, but I see him having the issue that his plate coverage is really good and he thinks he can hit pitches he really can't do much with. What has impressed me about Gattis is that he appears to understand hitting. One of the prettiest ABs I've seen all season (and I'll admit I haven't seen all that many) is his long AB against Burke of the Mets where Gattis hit a go-ahead single on a full count by going the other way with a pitch. At least he doesn't swing at balls six inches off the ground like our favorite San Francisco Giant.

Like all young guys, I worry that they'll get a book on Gattis which will force him to make adjustments and whether or not he can do that successfully will determine his big league ceiling. He doesn't have a lot of flaws. He doesn't stride and starts his swing relatively late, but he's unbelievably strong and his bat speed looks good. I'm surprised more teams don't try to bust him inside, but if you miss in there with him, the ball is out of the park.

I don't see why teams don't just throw junk at him. I haven't seen him be able to handle anything but offspeed hangers. I still think you can get him up in the zone with a fastball (Miller), but pitchers may be scared off by that one HR off Strasburg. But, hey if you sit fastball and you get one up in the zone, a lot of hitters will destroy that.

[zitothebrave]

Ruf's BABIP has never even been close to .300. His batting average is certainly going to come down, but he has legit power and an above average eye at the plate. He's going to have higher than normal BABIP bc he's the type of guy that swings and misses alot, but when he makes contact, he hits the ball hard.

Yay minor league stats!

I'll humor you though

Gattis also had an insanely high BABIP in the minors. He also hits the ball very hard when he makes contact.

Ruf is a slow right who hits around 20% line drives. That does not bode well for too high of a BABIP. From 2007 til now there are about 30 players with a 19.5-20% line drive rate, the high BABIP in that list is .339 which is Ichiro, the low is Plouffe at .262. BTW second lowest .264 adn second highest is Headley .334.

I would consider Ruf more like say Carlos Ruiz or Mike Napoli than Ichiro or Headley. Heck even Headley is lucky, but I think that high BABIP has more to do with the dimensions of Petco. Meanwhile CBP suppresses BABIP.

[gilesfan]

The BABIP of the two don't even compare, do they?

[jpx7]

What if they sign Brian McCann?

Don't make me vomit.

[zitothebrave]

The BABIP of the two don't even compare, do they?

BABIP of which 2? Napoli and Ruiz? Yeah that's where I expect him to eb.

[50PoundHead]

I don't see why teams don't just throw junk at him. I haven't seen him be able to handle anything but offspeed hangers. I still think you can get him up in the zone with a fastball (Miller), but pitchers may be scared off by that one HR off Strasburg. But, hey if you sit fastball and you get one up in the zone, a lot of hitters will destroy that.

The "junk" adjustment is the one every young hitter has to make. I've been surprised how Gattis has been able in certain situations to become a "contact first" guy (Burke AB case-in-point), but if he starts thinking junk and adjusting for that, he'll get busted inside. The big thing with Gattis is the pitcher can't make a mistake. Glen Perkins found that out.

[Dunit24]

Gattis is still a rookie. Hes not Mark McGwire, but its clear he has a very bright future. He will most likely adjust to what pitchers are throwing him and to be short - he will improve more and more.

[yeezus]

Phils are hardly done. They still have money to spend and you can bet they will spend it. Brown is their new Howard. He's going to be a thorn in our side for awhile. They're a borderline .500 team this yr with Halladay out and Hamels having an off yr. They're going to stick around awhile.


I'm with those that say the Nats are/were overrated. Offense aside from Harper and Desmond isn't all that terrific. Zimmerman isn't the offense stud they thought he was. They missed their opportunity last yr when they sat Strasburg

They really aren't a borderline .500 team. They hung around for a bit, but they won more game than they should have. They're dropping further below .500 and will continue to fall.

Ruf is terrible in LF. Revere hasn't even played well in CF this year. Brown was brutal, but has improved a bit. Still average at best in the OF. I still don't totally believe in him, either.
Rollins will not waive his NTC so they're stuck with him. It would probably be smart for them to re-sign Utley. Utley for 120 games + a backup is still better than most 2B in the game. They're stuck with that scrub Howard. Lee and Hamels are studs, but the rest of their rotation isn't good. Kendrick is a 4 at best. Who knows with Gonzalez but I keep reading 4-5 or reliever, unless everything goes perfect and he's a 3. Pettibone is not a good pitcher, he's a 5. Who knows about Asche.

They would need to sign Choo, Mac, and get a good to very good mid-rotation guy to compete next year. Amaro has been terrible as GM. Why nnot trade Young for anything, even a relief arm in AA? He's not going to re-sign and you're not going anywhere this year.

And their in a division with two of the youngest, most talented teams in the game.

[gilesfan]

Lee
Halladay
Hamels
Peitbone
Biddle
Kendrick
Gonzalez


is probably more than enough starting pitching.

[thethe]

Lee
Halladay
Hamels
Peitbone
Biddle
Kendrick
Gonzalez


is probably more than enough starting pitching.

That will probably be good enough for third maybe fourth in the division.

[yeezus]

Lee
Halladay
Hamels
Peitbone
Biddle
Kendrick
Gonzalez


is probably more than enough starting pitching.

Lee and Hamels I gave you.
Pettibone is a #5. Dime a dozen.
By the time Biddle is good and reliable, where will Hamels and Lee be?
Kendrick is reverting back to #4 (at best) Kyle Kendrick.
Gonzalez is a HUGE question mark.

[gilesfan]

That will probably be good enough for third maybe fourth in the division.

lol. Even if the Mets rotation is better despite only having 2/2.5 starters, they have nothing positionally besides wright.

[gilesfan]

Lee and Hamels I gave you.
Pettibone is a #5. Dime a dozen.
By the time Biddle is good and reliable, where will Hamels and Lee be?
Kendrick is reverting back to #4 (at best) Kyle Kendrick.
Gonzalez is a HUGE question mark.

Biddle is already in AA and will likely have a full season in AA at age 21.
Petitbone is a pretty solid back end of the rotation guy that can eat innings.
Gonzalez is expected to be a very good starter though there are certainly some questions
Halladay may come back
Kendrick has a 3.90 FIP this year.

They have a legit top of the rotation starters and a bunch of depth that can fill in the back end.

[yeezus]

Biddle is already in AA and will likely have a full season in AA at age 21.
Petitbone is a pretty solid back end of the rotation guy that can eat innings.
Gonzalez is expected to be a very good starter though there are certainly some questions
Halladay may come back
Kendrick has a 3.90 FIP this year.

They have a legit top of the rotation starters and a bunch of depth that can fill in the back end.

Right, and by the time Biddle is very good (if it happens) where will Lee and Hamels be?
Pettibone is a #5. That's all. Watch him pitch plenty.
I've heard people I trust say Gonzalez is a 4-5, possible reliever and that they gave him way too much.
Halladay? He's been awful the last two years and isn't going to go back to old Roy.
Kendrick started great and has been normal Kendrick since. Many believe he won't even be there next year.

[thethe]

lol. Even if the Mets rotation is better despite only having 2/2.5 starters, they have nothing positionally besides wright.

LOL at the Mets only having those amount of starters.

Mets will have a lot of money to play with. Their positional depth will get better.

[gilesfan]

If Biddle isn't going to be good for awhile, is that true for Minor, Teheran, etc? Oh wait.

Halladay was not awful in 2012 (3.69 FIP). But there are certainly questions.

The point is they have a lot of options and you are taking the worst case scenario on every one of them.

[yeezus]

If Biddle isn't going to be good for awhile, is that true for Minor, Teheran, etc? Oh wait.

Halladay was not awful in 2012 (3.69 FIP). But there are certainly questions.

The point is they have a lot of options and you are taking the worst case scenario on every one of them.

Didn't Teheran and Minor struggle when they came up?
Has Biddle pitched well in the majors like Minor and teheran have?
How is Biddle on Minor's or Teheran's level right now?

[BRule]

Mets have Harvey, Wheeler, Neise, Montero and Sindergard or however you spell it. They can easily trade 1 of the 2 latter prospects and land a huge bat and sign a big pitcher with all the money they will have.

Mets are going to be scary

[thethe]

Didn't Teheran and Minor struggle when they came up?
Has Biddle pitched well in the majors like Minor and teheran have?
How is Biddle on Minor's or Teheran's level right now?

He isn't. I don't even know how anyone can think that the Phillies are close to competing.

[thethe]

Mets have Harvey, Wheeler, Neise, Montero and Sindergard or however you spell it. They can easily trade 1 of the 2 latter prospects and land a huge bat and sign a big pitcher with all the money they will have.

Mets are going to be scary

Agreed. And those are just the big names. They have a lot of other lesser known guys that are doing well in high a and AA that could end up surprising people like Medlen/Beachy did.

[gilesfan]

Didn't Teheran and Minor struggle when they came up?
Has Biddle pitched well in the majors like Minor and teheran have?
How is Biddle on Minor's or Teheran's level right now?


Teheran pitched 25 innings prior to this year. He is 22. Biddle is 21. So, yes it's very likely that he can come up and struggle, but he will also be 2 years older than when Teheran made his debut so he may have more polish.

Im not comparing Biddle to those 2. Just pointing out that you can't expect every Braves prospect to hit the gate running but then Phils prospects can't do it.

[gilesfan]

Mets have Harvey, Wheeler, Neise, Montero and Sindergard or however you spell it. They can easily trade 1 of the 2 latter prospects and land a huge bat and sign a big pitcher with all the money they will have.

Mets are going to be scary

Montero was the Mets 10th rated prospect before the year and has been getting lit up this year. 1.5 whip, 4.3 era in aaa.

They are going to need more than 1 or 2 bats to be competitive.

[zitothebrave]

Mets have Harvey, Wheeler, Neise, Montero and Sindergard or however you spell it. They can easily trade 1 of the 2 latter prospects and land a huge bat and sign a big pitcher with all the money they will have.

Mets are going to be scary

Mets are only scary because of Alderson. They still have a few years of rebuilding.

[thethe]

Montero was the Mets 10th rated prospect before the year and has been getting lit up this year. 1.5 whip, 4.3 era in aaa.

They are going to need more than 1 or 2 bats to be competitive.

They shoudl not be playing baseball in Vegas. Those numbers aren't even worth looking at.

[BRule]

Mets are only scary because of Alderson. They still have a few years of rebuilding.

No, they are scary because of their pitching and the fact that they have 100-130 mil to spend. Alderson helps but their pitching is going to be really good for a long time.

[Dunit24]

let me get this straight

Some are arguing that the Mets pitching isnt deep? harvey, wheeler, gee, neise and they have some prospects that have high potential. They have david wright to build the offense around. I would take there future over the Phillies for sure. Nats, not so much.

[nsacpi]

The Marlins have some great young talent. A lot of it. And they'll get a haul when they move Stanton. I think all the teams in the division are on the rise except the Phillies. I could see them finishing last in a couple years.

[Heyward]

Hamels is 29 and is clearly an Ace.

Not sure what Halladay has left, he's clearly a question mark. Lee is cruising along at age 34....funny people weren't saying Hudson was done at 34 or 35 or 36 (except me and maybe 1-2 others)

Petibone appears to be a guy that will be in the majors for a long time. They also have a couple good arms in Biddle and Morgan that are close.


A lot of their prospects are major league ready or close. They do not have as many holes as people make it out to seem. They have guys like Ruif (38 hrs last year) and Asche that seem ready to be everyday contributors. Dom Brown finally realized his potential. They have money to spend. They are probably looking for 2 pieces this offseason, C and LF/RF. (Ruif playing OF is possible). What if they sign Brian McCann?

They have Darnaud, I doubt they sign Mac.

[gilesfan]

They have Darnaud, I doubt they sign Mac.

LOL. The Mets have him.

Heyward'ed

[Dunit24]

So giles. Ive heard all about the bright future of the Padres, Phillies, and Nats. What about Atlanta? One of the youngest teams in baseball and some money to play with. What do you think about your favorite team?

[gilesfan]

So giles. Ive heard all about the bright future of the Padres, Phillies, and Nats. What about Atlanta? One of the youngest teams in baseball and some money to play with. What do you think about your favorite team?

It depends on payroll and if what to do with Upton(s), Heyward, Freeman, McCann. It's going to be a big blow to lose McCann. Pitching wise, Braves will be fine lead by Minor (lol off all the people dissing him last 2 years) and Teheran. Just have Beachy come back healthy and Medlen to be a mid rotation starter.

The problem is the pressure the payroll puts on the team. Makes decisions very tough. But, with the good moves Wren has made, should be able to do well the next few years.

[Heyward]

LOL. The Mets have him.

Heyward'ed

Never mind, misread it.

Philly has a couple catching prospects but who knows.

I'd guess some AL team throws bank at him.

[Heyward]

Mets have good pitching.

But not all pan out, and some don't project as good as some think. Not sure how far off they are but they are going to be pretty good in a few years.

[thethe]

So giles. Ive heard all about the bright future of the Padres, Phillies, and Nats. What about Atlanta? One of the youngest teams in baseball and some money to play with. What do you think about your favorite team?

He already spoke about the Nats.

[Heyward]

Lol at saying Ruf is better than Gattis.

Giles is a Philly homer too!

[Dunit24]

It depends on payroll and if what to do with Upton(s), Heyward, Freeman, McCann. It's going to be a big blow to lose McCann. Pitching wise, Braves will be fine lead by Minor (lol off all the people dissing him last 2 years) and Teheran. Just have Beachy come back healthy and Medlen to be a mid rotation starter.

The problem is the pressure the payroll puts on the team. Makes decisions very tough. But, with the good moves Wren has made, should be able to do well the next few years.

The Braves have a higher payroll and a better nucleus than the Padres, but you think the Padres have a bright future and will win the West within 3 years? Thats your opinion and I respect it, but arent you contradicted yourself?

[Dunit24]

He already spoke about the Nats.

LOL I tee'd it up for you didnt I?

[gilesfan]

The Braves have a higher payroll and a better nucleus than the Padres, but you think the Padres have a bright future and will win the West within 3 years? Thats your opinion and I respect it, but arent you contradicted yourself?


THey play in totally different divisions and the Pads are increasing payroll and don't have albatrosses on theirr books like Upton and Uggla.

[yeezus]

Teheran pitched 25 innings prior to this year. He is 22. Biddle is 21. So, yes it's very likely that he can come up and struggle, but he will also be 2 years older than when Teheran made his debut so he may have more polish.

Im not comparing Biddle to those 2. Just pointing out that you can't expect every Braves prospect to hit the gate running but then Phils prospects can't do it.

Huh? What Braves prospects did I predict would hit the ground running? Minor didn't. Biddle has a high-3 ERA and 60 BB so far in AA. He won't reach his potential while Hamels and Lee are both aces.

[gilesfan]

Hamels is 29. So he's going to fall off the clip in the next couple years or Biddle isn't going to be good until he's 28?

[jpx7]

Huh? What Braves prospects did I predict would hit the ground running? Minor didn't. Biddle has a high-3 ERA and 60 BB so far in AA. He won't reach his potential while Hamels and Lee are both aces.


Hamels is 29. So he's going to fall off the clip in the next couple years or Biddle isn't going to be good until he's 28?

He said "both."

[gilesfan]

He said "both."

ummm ok

[thethe]

GF is getting owned and he knows it.

[gilesfan]

GF is getting owned and he knows it.

on what, specifically?

[thethe]

on what, specifically?

The fact that Philly has a good future. Its pretty obvious they don't. They need to tear it down. Their run is over.

[yeezus]

ummm ok

classic giles

[yeezus]

The fact that Philly has a good future. Its pretty obvious they don't. They need to tear it down. Their run is over.

Just like they needed this year, they will need A LOT to go right in the future to be able to compete with Atlanta or Washington the next few years. They don't have much of a farm. They haven't made particularly good decisions, on trades or signings. Don't draft well.

Just like when they won in '08, even. Sure Howard, Utley, Rollins were all great then, but Werth and Victorino were two guys they happened to hit on that performed out of this world.

I invite anyone who says our pitching isn't good enough to win to go look at their staff in '08.

[gilesfan]

The fact that Philly has a good future. Its pretty obvious they don't. They need to tear it down. Their run is over.

Lol. Great counter points you've brought......oh wait.

The Phils have a 160 million dollar payroll this year. You know how much is tied up next year? (before arby- $104,000). The next year? 87k. They will have a lot of money to spend.

Though Im not a big fan of Howard, they will have:

C- ?
1B- Howard
2B- Utley
SS- Rollins
3B- Asche (other?)
LF- Dom Brown
CF- Revere
RF- Ruf (other) or flip flop with Brown

They are not that far off. If they sign an impact LF, C, or 3B or 2, they will again have a very good offense. Heck, even with the crap they are throwing out now, they have the 5th best offense in the NL in wOBA.

Hamels is a good block to build on. Lee has at least a couple years left in his arm. They have prospects. They have plenty of backend candidates. They have a international guy they just signed--

"He's a real talent," said one scout to Scott Miller of CBSSports.com in June. "He had some bone spurs, and he's still building up, but his stuff is top shelf. He threw it over the plate, and he can make it move. He's really good.

"He's like a classic Cuban guy in that he toys with all [his pitches]. He throws a curve that's bigger, he makes it go wide, he throws it straight down ... it's like 10 different pitches. And he throws them all over the plate."

Gonzalez is said to throw in the 94-95 mph range with his fastball while touching 96. He held several workouts and showcases in Mexico before signing."


And of course they have the money to sign a starter if they want.

[yeezus]

So:
C - ? - Not easy to find one of these. Even in FA.
1B - LOL
2B - 120 games or less from Chase
SS - Rollins isn't very good
3B - Asche will be their guy, huge ?
LF - Brown - is he this good? I don't buy the huge power.
CF - Revere - hasn't been good on D, all value is in SB
RF - Ruf cannot play there. He can't play LF.

Badler and others have said they see MAG as a backend guy or reliever. Few believe he could be a 3, even less say 2.
Who's in their farm that's high-ceiling outside Biddle?

[yeezus]

And let's not forget Amaro is their GM. He's bad.

[jpx7]

ummm ok

So, it's a question of rotational depth. I'm not on this "Philadelphia is phucked" argument as hard and heavy as others, but the "counterpoint" you made re Hamels misconstrues, either deliberately or through deficit of reading, the point yeezus was making about Biddle's development in the context of Philadelphia's future rotation(s).

[gilesfan]

Asche is a very good hitting prospect.

Granted I do not like Howard, but people are acting like he's the worst player in baseball or something.

The Phils could sign Mac. They could sign a guy like Suzuki. They could keep Ruiz. They have options because they have money to spend.

You find a guy that is negative on Gonzalez....cool

They also have 60 million to spend next year. 80 million the next.

[Heyward]

I've said before they have the pitching to compete.

But their offense is the biggest problem.

As for them signing Mac, wouldn't surprise me.

But they got Tommy Joseph in the Pence trade and a couple others like Valle.

[yeezus]

Asche is a very good hitting prospect.

Granted I do not like Howard, but people are acting like he's the worst player in baseball or something.

The Phils could sign Mac. They could sign a guy like Suzuki. They could keep Ruiz. They have options because they have money to spend.

You find a guy that is negative on Gonzalez....cool

They also have 60 million to spend next year. 80 million the next.

I don't think Asche is a "very good" prospect. And most every list doesn't think so, either.
Howard is a platoon player. Well, should be.
Mac would be a huge get. Suzuki? Ruiz? That's going to help their offense?
There are plenty of people negative on Gonzalez. You found one positive...cool.
They have money but a bad GM who makes bad decisions in pretty much every facet.

[yeezus]

So, it's a question of rotational depth. I'm not on this "Philadelphia is phucked" argument as hard and heavy as others, but the "counterpoint" you made re Hamels misconstrues, either deliberately or through deficit of reading, the point yeezus was making about Biddle's development in the context of Philadelphia's future rotation(s).

LOL did you expect him to actually address your point? Come on.

[gilesfan]

6) Cody Asche, 3B, Grade B-: Hitting .295/.352/.485 with 15 homers, 11 steals, 35 walks, 95 strikeouts in 404 at-bats in Triple-A. Ready for a major league trial. I like him. I think his glove is solid, too.

-John Sickels

[gilesfan]

So, it's a question of rotational depth. I'm not on this "Philadelphia is phucked" argument as hard and heavy as others, but the "counterpoint" you made re Hamels misconstrues, either deliberately or through deficit of reading, the point yeezus was making about Biddle's development in the context of Philadelphia's future rotation(s).


ok. I thought he meant Hamels would not be an ace if/when Biddle or others (Morgan?) would be ready. Being that Biddle is going to have a full year at AA this year, I doubt he's that far off. It depends on what you expect from him and when. Hamels should have a few good years left. Lee- who knows, a least a couple.

[zitothebrave]

Phillies can possibly compete but they're more like in a position we were in from 06-08 where we have some interesting young guys who you never know what can happen, and some overpaid albatrosses. Howard's contract will certainly hinder the Phillies for many years. Halladay is likely gone which is why I think they signed the Cuban pitcher. At the very least they decline his option since it won't vest.

The issue with saying the Phillies have "60 million" to spend is it doesn't factor in league minimum gues and arb raises. Kendrick, Bastardo, Lannan, Frandsen, Mayberry, Revere, and Valdez are all arb 1. If they keep all of those guys they make more than league minimum. Kendrick and bastardo are likely around 10M themselves. That's with them not picking up Halladay's option and how ever much Gonzalez will make isn't factored in.

The reality is that the Phillies have 6 players making 104.75 Million. They have about 60 million to fill out the remaining 19 roster spots. I assume Kendrick goes nowhere, that's probably roughly 6 or 7 million Bastardo at around 2-3M, Frandsen around 1M Let's presume maybe 5M for Gonzalez (hard to gauge if that's whaty it will be or not, no real details but I assume it's backloaded) so those guys I presume stick around let's say around 2M for Revere and Mayberry. If that's all true they have then about 40M for the 13 remaining players. Which basically in reality means they have about 30M to spend in FA. Not 60M.

[gilesfan]

Phillies can possibly compete but they're more like in a position we were in from 06-08 where we have some interesting young guys who you never know what can happen, and some overpaid albatrosses. Howard's contract will certainly hinder the Phillies for many years. Halladay is likely gone which is why I think they signed the Cuban pitcher. At the very least they decline his option since it won't vest.

The issue with saying the Phillies have "60 million" to spend is it doesn't factor in league minimum gues and arb raises. Kendrick, Bastardo, Lannan, Frandsen, Mayberry, Revere, and Valdez are all arb 1. If they keep all of those guys they make more than league minimum. Kendrick and bastardo are likely around 10M themselves. That's with them not picking up Halladay's option and how ever much Gonzalez will make isn't factored in.

The reality is that the Phillies have 6 players making 104.75 Million. They have about 60 million to fill out the remaining 19 roster spots. I assume Kendrick goes nowhere, that's probably roughly 6 or 7 million Bastardo at around 2-3M, Frandsen around 1M Let's presume maybe 5M for Gonzalez (hard to gauge if that's whaty it will be or not, no real details but I assume it's backloaded) so those guys I presume stick around let's say around 2M for Revere and Mayberry. If that's all true they have then about 40M for the 13 remaining players. Which basically in reality means they have about 30M to spend in FA. Not 60M.

you suck at reading.

[yeezus]

6) Cody Asche, 3B, Grade B-: Hitting .295/.352/.485 with 15 homers, 11 steals, 35 walks, 95 strikeouts in 404 at-bats in Triple-A. Ready for a major league trial. I like him. I think his glove is solid, too.

-John Sickels

Is B- "very good" now?

[Carp]

Cliff Lee is not going to get better. If anything he is going to get wrose. Is Halladay ever going to be a factor again? The guy is not young. The Phillies were great in the late 2000's because of Utley/Howard/Rollins in their prime and getting super lucky with Werth. They don't have it anymore and will need to tear it down and rebuild. They have money but that doesn't assure you anything.



Why does Cliff Lee need to get better? He's still one of the top 5-10 pitchers in the NL.

Hamels has been a bit unlucky this yr, but he's still young and still an ace.

Utley and Howard are still productive players. And Brown is a stud. And probably the most important thing you are forgetting is that they have tons of money to spend. They have at least 20 million more to spend this off-season with Halladay off the books. They could sign 2-3 or big name FA"s this off-season.

You are fooling yourself if you think the Philthies are going to be crappy for awhile. They're a borderline .500 team without a healthy Halldaday and a bunch of other players on their DL this season.

[yeezus]

Why does Cliff Lee need to get better? He's still one of the top 5-10 pitchers in the NL.

Hamels has been a bit unlucky this yr, but he's still young and still an ace.

Utley and Howard are still productive players. And Brown is a stud. And probably the most important thing you are forgetting is that they have tons of money to spend. They have at least 20 million more to spend this off-season with Halladay off the books. They could sign 2-3 or big name FA"s this off-season.

You are fooling yourself if you think the Philthies are going to be crappy for awhile. They're a borderline .500 team without a healthy Halldaday and a bunch of other players on their DL this season.

Where do you get "borderline" .500? They're 7 under right now, and were playing a bit above their heads earlier. Howard is a platoon player, old, and will be perpetually hurt, just like Utley (though Utley isn't a platoon player).

Halladay will never be Halladay again. No bullpen. And Lee and Hamels better start 34 games with a sub-3 ERA to have a shot. They're 3rd for a few years.

[Carp]

Phillies can possibly compete but they're more like in a position we were in from 06-08 where we have some interesting young guys who you never know what can happen, and some overpaid albatrosses. Howard's contract will certainly hinder the Phillies for many years. Halladay is likely gone which is why I think they signed the Cuban pitcher. At the very least they decline his option since it won't vest.

The issue with saying the Phillies have "60 million" to spend is it doesn't factor in league minimum gues and arb raises. Kendrick, Bastardo, Lannan, Frandsen, Mayberry, Revere, and Valdez are all arb 1. If they keep all of those guys they make more than league minimum. Kendrick and bastardo are likely around 10M themselves. That's with them not picking up Halladay's option and how ever much Gonzalez will make isn't factored in.

The reality is that the Phillies have 6 players making 104.75 Million. They have about 60 million to fill out the remaining 19 roster spots. I assume Kendrick goes nowhere, that's probably roughly 6 or 7 million Bastardo at around 2-3M, Frandsen around 1M Let's presume maybe 5M for Gonzalez (hard to gauge if that's whaty it will be or not, no real details but I assume it's backloaded) so those guys I presume stick around let's say around 2M for Revere and Mayberry. If that's all true they have then about 40M for the 13 remaining players. Which basically in reality means they have about 30M to spend in FA. Not 60M.

Doubtful that they bring Halladay back and they certainly won't at 20 million. It isn't a lock that they bring Kendrick back either. Young is a FA. Phils probably will have around 40 million or more to spend this off-season and you can bet that they will spend it.

[Carp]

Where do you get "borderline" .500? They're 7 under right now, and were playing a bit above their heads earlier. Howard is a platoon player, old, and will be perpetually hurt, just like Utley (though Utley isn't a platoon player).

Halladay will never be Halladay again. No bullpen. And Lee and Hamels better start 34 games with a sub-3 ERA to have a shot. They're 3rd for a few years.

They've been hovering around .500 practically all season up until 12 days ago. And they were a .500 team last yr. Basically they've been a .500 team for the last 1.5 yrs up until about 12 days when they had 8 game losing streak. But i guess you're right, they are nowhere close to .500 team...... :roll:


Halladay is gone at the end of the yr. They may resign him to an incentive laden deal. They may not. But they will definitely use his money on finding a replacement. Josh Johnson, Matt Garza, Kuroda, Santana, Lots of good of options for them to improve their club. Hell they have the money to sign two out of those pitchers if they wanted.

[yeezus]

They've been hovering around .500 practically all season up until 12 days ago. And they were a .500 team last yr. Basically they've been a .500 team for the last 1.5 yrs up until about 12 days when they had 8 game losing streak. But i guess you're right, they are nowhere close to .500 team...... :roll:


Halladay is gone at the end of the yr. They may resign him to an incentive laden deal. They may not. But they will definitely use his money on finding a replacement. Josh Johnson, Matt Garza, Kuroda, Santana, Lots of good of options for them to improve their club. Hell they have the money to sign two out of those pitchers if they wanted.

Every argument you're in, you make stuff up that people never said.
I didn't say "no where near .500," but they're 7 under right now and will finish more than that. Their run differential is 2nd worst in the entire NL. They should not have been hovering around .500 like they were, and it's starting to show.
Howard and Utley will always be injured. They won't sign two of those pitchers, especially since they just signed MAG. And all those guys come with question marks, anyway. And again, Amaro is a terrible GM and I have no faith he will make smart moves.

[Carp]

Every argument you're in, you make stuff up that people never said.
I didn't say "no where near .500," but they're 7 under right now and will finish more than that. Their run differential is 2nd worst in the entire NL. They should not have been hovering around .500 like they were, and it's starting to show.
Howard and Utley will always be injured. They won't sign two of those pitchers, especially since they just signed MAG. And all those guys come with question marks, anyway. And again, Amaro is a terrible GM and I have no faith he will make smart moves.



I was saying that sarcastically to make a point. And as I said, they've been hovering around .500 all season and were a .500 team last yr. They are a .500 team in every sense on the word.

You are still missing the point that they have plenty of money to spend to upgrade their team, which isn't all that in the first place.

[yeezus]

I was saying that sarcastically to make a point. And as I said, they've been hovering around .500 all season and were a .500 team last yr. They are a .500 team in every sense on the word.

You are still missing the point that they have plenty of money to spend to upgrade their team, which isn't all that in the first place.

What does last year have to do with this year?
They were below .500 for most of last year, anyway. And now they're 8 down. They don't have a deep rotation. They play horrid defense. Not a particularly good offensive team. Bad bullpen. They don't do ANYTHING well. To me, that is a below .500 team to a T.

[Carp]

What does last year have to do with this year?
They were below .500 for most of last year, anyway. And now they're 8 down. They don't have a deep rotation. They play horrid defense. Not a particularly good offensive team. Bad bullpen. They don't do ANYTHING well. To me, that is a below .500 team to a T.


Actually, their starting pitching has, in fact, performed very well this yr and have the 4th most quality starts in the league. Their BP is not good, but BP's tend to vary from yr to yr. Their hitting has been league average. Pretty much everything about them screams average.

And if you'd rather put more weight into the last 10 games than the first 95 games of the season. That's fine. But they've been hovering right around the .500 mark all season. And usual with your arguments, you are missing the point entirely.

[yeezus]

Actually, their starting pitching has, in fact, performed very well this yr and have the 4th most quality starts in the league. Their BP is not good, but BP's tend to vary from yr to yr. Their hitting has been league average. Pretty much everything about them screams average.

And if you'd rather put more weight into the last 10 games than the first 95 games of the season. That's fine. But they've been hovering right around the .500 mark all season. And usual with your arguments, you are missing the point entirely.

Over the whole season they're 8 games below .500. That's not a 10 game sample. That's the whole season, these games count like all the others. I get they were around .500 for a little bit (they've been a roller coaster all season, so it depnds on what you consider "hover"). They've played terrible baseball since the break. Bad defense, Bad pitching, lack of offense. I watch them nightly. They are not a .500 team and won't finish there.
Pettibone isn't good, Kendrick has come back down to earth. John Lannan?
Their bullpen has lacked arms for a few seasons now. The guys they brought up from the minors the last few years have had limited success.

[yeezus]

Their starting pitching is bottom 3rd in xFIP, bottom half FIP, bottom 3rd in ERA, bottom 3rd in k/9. And that's with guys like Lee and Hamels skewing the numbers. The rest of the guys in that rotation are not very good.

[yeezus]

Offense:
14th in BB%, bottom 3rd in OBP, 10th in wOBA, 9th in wRC. 11th in offensive WAR, they are a negative base running team, and the worst defensive team in the league.

[Carp]

Their starting pitching is bottom 3rd in xFIP, bottom half FIP, bottom 3rd in ERA, bottom 3rd in k/9. And that's with guys like Lee and Hamels skewing the numbers. The rest of the guys in that rotation are not very good.

Nice cherry picking


FIP is a terrible stat, as is it only useful as a predictor. When talking about the actual performance (like we are), results are all that matters. Kendrick, Pettibone, and Lannan have combine for 300 innings with an ERA just over 4.00 in a hitters park. These 3 guys honestly are not that talented, but despite that they have performed at a level of league average or better.

And Hamels isn't skewing any stats other than FIP and K's.