4/26/15 MINORS FINAL: Grim news from Rome

[rico43]

I have a long history of overreacting to news about guys going on the DL, but what has already happened in Rome hits my gut like it is nothing short of disastrous.
The R-Braves have already had to put Max Povse and Chad Sobotka on the DL, Sobotka with the dreaded "strained right forearm" diagnosis. If you checked, many ultimate Tommy John patients were originally given that same preliminary diagnosis. Povse, the team's Opening Day starter, was DL'd for as-yet unknown reasons. Hopefully, one of our Rome partisans can update this.
Got my fingers crossed for both.


SUNDAY GAMES
ALL TIMES EDT

CLASS AAA

Game One
Durham 4, Gwinnett 2 (7)

LP: Foltynewicz (0-3) 5 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 9 K.
Jaime 0.2 IP, 1 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 0 K.
A. Garcia 1-3, 2B, RBI; Cunningham 2-3, R; Kleinknecht 1-3, 2B, RBI.

Game Two
Gwinnett 3, Durham 1 (7)

SP: Marimon 4 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K.
WP: Veal (2-0) 1.1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K.
Kurcz (Save, 4 ) 1 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, K.
Kennally 1-3, R, 2 RBI; Cunningham 1-2, 2B, R, BB, SB.

CLASS AA

Mobile 5, Mississippi 4 (10)

Walk-off win (HR)
SP: Jenkins 6 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 3 K.
LP: Robinson (1-1) 0.1 IP, 1 H, 1 R, HR.
Loman 2-4, HR (1st), RBI; Ahrens 2-5, R; Mx. Smith 2-4, R; O'Dowd 1-4, HR (2nd), RBI.

ADVANCED CLASS A

Game One
Salem 2, Carolina 1 (7)

LP: Brosius (1-1) 5.2 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 2 K.
Camargo 1-2, RBI; Odom 1-2, 2B, R.

Game Two
Salem 4, Carolina 1 (7)

LP: Gil (0-4) 5 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 6 K.
E. Garcia 1-2, 2B, R. (ONLY HIT)

CLASS A

Game One
Rome 5, Augusta 2 (7)

WP: Furney (2-1) 7 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 3 K. (Complete game!)
Curcio 2-2, 2B, R, 2 RBI; Harper 1-3, 2B, R, RBI; Albies 0-2, R, BB, SB.

Game Two
Augusta 8, Rome 1 (7)

LP: Beech (0-1) 4 IP, 7 H, 4 ER, 2 BB, 3 K.
Davidson 1-2, HR (2nd), RBI; Curcio 2-3 (.350); Albies 1-4 (.270)..

[rico43]

Fifth round pick Diaz has never been right and 2nd rounder Fulenchek was awful last year and is still in short season. Unless and if Braxton gets over .200, the 2014 draft is looking more and more like Chernobyl.

[keithlaw]

Sobotka with the dreaded "strained right forearm" diagnosis.

I know minor leaguers don't make much money, but he really should have rested over the offseason instead of unloading all that cargo.

[devilsbballfan]

Fifth round pick Diaz has never been right and 2nd rounder Fulenchek was awful last year and is still in short season. Unless and if Braxton gets over .200, the 2014 draft is looking more and more like Chernobyl.

Fulenchek is still only 18, way too early to write him off or be down on him because he isn't in Rome. Should be interesting to see how he looks after a year with instructs and extended spring training.

[rico43]

Fulenchek is still only 18, way too early to write him off or be down on him because he isn't in Rome. Should be interesting to see how he looks after a year with instructs and extended spring training.

Which is why I didn't project or predict. But I don't think it's too much to ask to see him dominant in whichever short-season league he's dropped in this summer.

[rico43]

Braves have moved up Caleb Beech from extended spring training to start second game for Rome today. His entire pro career consists of four games for GCL Braves (0-0, 14.40). Was 13th round pick last year from Shelton State, Ala.

[smootness]

Yeah, it's obviously way too early to deem 2014 a successful draft, but it's also far too early to deem it a failure, either. The jury will be out on it for at least another year.

Davidson hit another HR today in the 2nd game...now up to .227/.370/.409. The average needs to come up, but the plate discipline and walks are there, and the ISO is good as well. I think he'll be fine.

Albies is also now up to .279 and OBPing at .343. He's hitting very well recently, along with Peraza. Mallex Smith is having a great start. And Folty, Wisler, and Jenkins have all had pretty good starts to the year as well. Our system has started the year off solidly well. We need Ruiz to start hitting.

[thethe]

I think its clear the farm system is going to be a strength moving forward. The key is going to be if 2-3 of the 5 out of Peraza/Smith/Albies/Davidson/Ruiz are above average players and then if 2 of the 4 of Perez/Garcia(under the radar potential solid player)/Castro/Lipka can be replacement level players who are under team control then the 2017 Braves are going to be very good.

The pitching pipeline is there and we will be able to trade for a big bat with that as currency.

[atl717]

Jenkins not getting the K's. It is a concern.

[smootness]

Jenkins not getting the K's. It is a concern.

True, though still a small sample. We also have to remember that he hasn't pitched all that much in his career still and this is his first action in AA.

I don't think he'll ever be a big K guy, though.

I look at Folty and maybe Sanchez as the true potential aces in the system, with the rest (Jenkins, Wisler, Banuelos) being potentially very good but without the elite stuff of Folty. I also think Fried has a very high ceiling, probably higher than the latter three.

[sturg33]

I'm not too confident in Jenkins moving forward. Hope I'm wrong

[smootness]

He's a bit of a wild card. Has talent but hasn't had as much time as most guys his age and could certainly bust.

But that's the reason you hoard this many arms. You don't need them all to hit, just need 2-3.

[Deester11]

I'm not too confident in Jenkins moving forward. Hope I'm wrong I'm hoping you are too. Relative to pitching he has not been healthy. IF he stays healthy and learns to PITCH, I could care less how many strikeouts he gets in the interim. A knockout pitch will help. He has a good arm. I'd like more arms because you never know who will/won't pan out.

[Oklahomabrave]

Did anyone see Folty pitch? After that blurb from his last outing about him trying to improve his slider speed I've been very curious. He says he previously wasn't ever able to get it faster than 81 or 82. The article didn't seem that clear but I couldn't tell if he was throwing it 85-87 or that it is just the hope. I couldn't find any pitcher fx data for minors.

[thethe]

Jenkins is still so early in his development and he is still getting guys out in AA. Guy just needs to have a full healthy season though before we can think he is part of the future.

[50PoundHead]

Fulenchek is still only 18, way too early to write him off or be down on him because he isn't in Rome. Should be interesting to see how he looks after a year with instructs and extended spring training.

What I read on Fulenchek before last year's draft is that he is really raw. Played at a relatively small high school in Texas and was kind of off the radar until late. Big kid with a lot of growth potential.

I'm a bit surprised the Braves started Jenkins in AA. I thought he would begin the year in Carolina given his injuries and the fact that he only pitched in 13 games last season in the Florida State League. He's 2.5 years younger than the average player in the Southern League and some folks here seem to be disappointed that he's not Ferguson Jenkins.

[thethe]

What I read on Fulenchek before last year's draft is that he is really raw. Played at a relatively small high school in Texas and was kind of off the radar until late. Big kid with a lot of growth potential.

I'm a bit surprised the Braves started Jenkins in AA. I thought he would begin the year in Carolina given his injuries and the fact that he only pitched in 13 games last season in the Florida State League. He's 2.5 years younger than the average player in the Southern League and some folks here seem to be disappointed that he's not Ferguson Jenkins.

Come on 50...you know why people are already disappointed in Jenkins.

[Deester11]

What I read on Fulenchek before last year's draft is that he is really raw. Played at a relatively small high school in Texas and was kind of off the radar until late. Big kid with a lot of growth potential.

I'm a bit surprised the Braves started Jenkins in AA. I thought he would begin the year in Carolina given his injuries and the fact that he only pitched in 13 games last season in the Florida State League. He's 2.5 years younger than the average player in the Southern League and some folks here seem to be disappointed that he's not Ferguson Jenkins. Shhh...don't confuse us. That is absolutely correct 50. I'm as excited about his potential as I am about many of the others. It may take time, but he's got talent.

[sturg33]

Come on 50...you know why people are already disappointed in Jenkins.

Sigh

[JohnAdcox]

The pitching pipeline is there and we will be able to trade for a big bat with that as currency.

I think that last bit might be a little overly optimistic, even by your standards, and I say that as one who agrees with you most of the time (including the rest of the post). I’m totally with you on the strength of the farm, but…

1. We’re going to need AT LEAST two of those arms in the rotation by next year at the latest. Presumably, the best two. I hope so, anyway.
2.) We’re going to see some bullpen arms.
3.) Ideally, we want some arms for depth and price protection.

That doesn’t leave many for an impact bat, which seems to be a rarer commodity (and yes, I agree that this is an arguable position at best) than our fourth or fifth best stockpiled arms. I honestly feel that we are more likely to get production out of Dian Toscano in left than by trading pitching. I hope to be wrong.

Now, in the ideal world, we can sign an outfielder and an ace, and fill in the rest. I have a hard time picturing that.

[50PoundHead]

Sigh

thethe said it, I didn't (nor did I intend to make any point outside of Jenkins). My point is that they Braves are seemingly being pretty aggressive with Jenkins and that surprises me a bit.

[thethe]

We are fooling ourselves if we don't think that Jenkins is going to be under the microscope more than a regular prospect by some fans around here. Its just hte way it is.

We are all still mad Heyward was traded.

[smootness]

In an ideal world, I would want this:
Folty - SP in Atlanta
Wisler - SP in Atlanta
Banuelos - SP depth
Hursh - bullpen in Atlanta

That way, we would have Jenkins, Sims, and anyone else as potential trade pieces. Of course, inevitably there will be an injury or someone not panning out.

But you also have Fried, who could bump somebody like Wisler into a trade piece if he comes back and progresses.

A 2017 rotation of Teheran, Wood, Folty, Miller, and Wisler, with Banuelos as depth and Fried as a potential late-season addition would be amazing.

[sturg33]

We are fooling ourselves if we don't think that Jenkins is going to be under the microscope more than a regular prospect by some fans around here. Its just hte way it is.

We are all still mad Heyward was traded.

I want more than anyone for Jenkins to be a stud, then I can swallow the Heyward trade much easier.

But he just doesn't seem to have the dominant stuff to be that stud.

[nsacpi]

In an ideal world, I would want this:
Folty - SP in Atlanta
Wisler - SP in Atlanta
Banuelos - SP depth
Hursh - bullpen in Atlanta

That way, we would have Jenkins, Sims, and anyone else as potential trade pieces. Of course, inevitably there will be an injury or someone not panning out.

But you also have Fried, who could bump somebody like Wisler into a trade piece if he comes back and progresses.

A 2017 rotation of Teheran, Wood, Folty, Miller, and Wisler, with Banuelos as depth and Fried as a potential late-season addition would be amazing.

We need to remember what it cost to get Justin Upton. If we want a hitter of that caliber on a team friendly contract, the deal would have to include a solid major leaguer player (such as Prado) and a Top 50 prospect (such as Delgado). So who is going to be the "spare" pitching prospect who would be the equivalent of a Delgado after the 2016 season?

[chop2chip]

I want more than anyone for Jenkins to be a stud, then I can swallow the Heyward trade much easier.

But he just doesn't seem to have the dominant stuff to be that stud.He wouldn't be the first "stud" that didn't strike people out in the minors.

By all accounts he does have excellent stuff, but it hasn't translated to strike outs yet (although it has translated to effectiveness). I think the jury is still out on Jenkins.

[thethe]

We need to remember what it cost to get Justin Upton. If we want a hitter of that caliber on a team friendly contract, the deal would have to include a solid major leaguer player (such as Prado) and a Top 50 prospect (such as Delgado). So who is going to be the "spare" pitching prospect who would be the equivalent of a Delgado after the 2016 season?

Alex Wood I think is going to be a guy who is traded for an impact bat.

Then you could still have Teheran/Miller/Folty/Wisler/Fried/Banuelos/Sims/Perez/etc plus a veteran in there to fill out the rotation.

[thethe]

Oh yeah, and you know the Braves are going to draft a bunch of pitching in this years draft and 1-2 will be a legit starting pitching prospect (anywhere from a 2-5).

[thethe]

He wouldn't be the first "stud" that didn't strike people out in the minors.

By all accounts he does have excellent stuff, but it hasn't translated to strike outs yet (although it has translated to effectiveness). I think the jury is still out on Jenkins.

Plus the kid is still really learning his craft. He doesn't have the amount of innings a typical AA pitcher would have at this point. The fact that he is getting guys out is certainly encouraging.

[smootness]

We have a few guys who could be in or near that top 50 range, Jenkins being one. Also Sanchez, Fried, Sims.

But count me completely out on trading Wood. I think he has the most potential of anybody on the team or in the system, so that would be a massive no in my eyes.

[nsacpi]

We have a few guys who could be in or near that top 50 range, Jenkins being one. Also Sanchez, Fried, Sims.



Maybe, but right now Wisler and Foltynewicz are the only ones in the Top 100 or even close to it. A lot of things would have to break our way (including the absence of injuries) for us to have the kind of extra pitcher that could net us a top hitter.

[Tapate50]

Maybe, but right now Wisler and Foltynewicz are the only ones in the Top 100 or even close to it. A lot of things would have to break our way (including the absence of injuries) for us to have the kind of extra pitcher that could net us a top hitter.

If you would stop jinxing them into TJ surgery on the MILB box scores then the skys the limit!



I am kidding of course. :Bowman:

[smootness]

No, Fried is close, just needs to prove he's back next year after his recovery.

Jenkins is also highly thought-of, especially after what he did in the AFL. The Ks may keep him from that level as a prospect, but if he improves that K rate, he could fly up prospect boards.

And Sanchez was already the Angels' #1 or 2 guy. At 18, he could certainly get to that level. Sims can get there but may be the least likely at this point.

The Braves have done a good job of adding guys who are on the verge of seeing their stock soar. The odds that 1 or 2 get there are actually pretty high.

And I'm not saying we'll be able to add a big-time hitter. The DBacks were stupid in that trade. But we should be able to flip some pitching for a couple of decent bats if we want, at least.

[Braves1976]

Alex Wood I think is going to be a guy who is traded for an impact bat.

Then you could still have Teheran/Miller/Folty/Wisler/Fried/Banuelos/Sims/Perez/etc plus a veteran in there to fill out the rotation.

If the goal is to win by 2017, then you build around Wood, Teheran and Miller and trade one of the top prospect pitchers.

[Braves1976]

We have a few guys who could be in or near that top 50 range, Jenkins being one. Also Sanchez, Fried, Sims.

But count me completely out on trading Wood. I think he has the most potential of anybody on the team or in the system, so that would be a massive no in my eyes.

Yep, I actually wrote that it was a stupid idea at first but edited my post not wanting to come off as picking a fight.

[thethe]

If the goal is to win by 2017, then you build around Wood, Teheran and Miller and trade one of the top prospect pitchers.

Or with Miller developing into a top of the rotation arm you complete the lineup by getting that impact bat we sorely need to protect Freddie.

Lots of ways to go about this. If these pitching prospects develop (specifically Folty) then you can afford to deal from our strength.

[50PoundHead]

If the goal is to win by 2017, then you build around Wood, Teheran and Miller and trade one of the top prospect pitchers.

I'm not as high on Wood as others, but he's here and ready. If 2017 is the goal, you really can't move him.

[Braves1976]

Maybe, but right now Wisler and Foltynewicz are the only ones in the Top 100 or even close to it. A lot of things would have to break our way (including the absence of injuries) for us to have the kind of extra pitcher that could net us a top hitter.

I'd try to trade one of them in such a trade for an impact bat.

[smootness]

Or with Miller developing into a top of the rotation arm you complete the lineup by getting that impact bat we sorely need to protect Freddie.

Lots of ways to go about this. If these pitching prospects develop (specifically Folty) then you can afford to deal from our strength.

Miller won't be a TOR guy. Or at least he has far less chance of becoming that than Wood.

Wood, Teheran, and Miller is a great start to a rotation. If Folty comes along, that is a potentially great 1-4. But I would consider Miller the 4.

If you take Wood out, then Teheran and Miller is much less formidable as the known quantities. You would have to have Folty, Wisler, and somebody else all hit or else now you have only a good rotation instead of a great one.

I mean, adding Banuelos, Sims, or Perez suddenly gives you that guy plus Miller and Wisler as guys that are really 3s or lower and only Teheran and Folty (and only if he realizes all his potential) as top 2 guys.

Give me a 1, two 2s and two 3s (or at least three 2s and three 3s) over two 2s, two 3s, and a 4 or 5 all day.

[thethe]

I've always been of the belief that you spend big money on hitting and continually develop pitching. By the time 2017 is coming Alex Wood will start to get expensive and if you could get an impact bat with cheaper cost controlled arms behind then thats the way to go. Nothing worse than having a 10+ million dollar investment being on the shelf for 18 months.

[smootness]

Also nothing worse than continually trading your best players once they cost any money. Offer Wood a similar deal to Teheran. Even if you pay a little more, he's worth it.

If the Braves are even considering trading Wood, then I will lose faith in the organization completely. That, or they better be targeting Jose Abreu.

[smootness]

Double post

[thethe]

Also nothing worse than continually trading your best players once they cost any money. Offer Wood a similar deal to Teheran. Even if you pay a little more, he's worth it.

If the Braves are even considering trading Wood, then I will lose faith in the organization completely. That, or they better be targeting Jose Abreu.

Thats the point though right? Getting a guy like Abreu is going ot cost you a pitcher like Wood. If you have faith in your scouts and developmental team then you pull the trigger on a deal like that.

Abreu is not a great example only becuase he can only play 1B or DH. But, a hitter similar to that for LF would be nice.

[smootness]

We're not getting Abreu for Wood. That's my point.

If Abreu was on the table, I'm certainly not letting his position deter me. It would be bye bye, Freeman...trade him for a pitcher at that point.

[Braves1976]

I agree with trying to lock-up Wood before he gets more expensive, I don't agree with what thethe is pushing as far as trading him at all.

[thethe]

I'm not "pushing" to trade Wood. I'm saying I wouldn't put him on an untouchable list if the right player came around.

[smootness]

I'm not "pushing" to trade Wood. I'm saying I wouldn't put him on an untouchable list if the right player came around.

I just don't think, no matter who we trade, we're going to get an elite bat. You have to develop those guys or sign them as FAs. Since we won't be signing them, we need to develop them. That's why I'm in favor of drafting an even mix of hitting and pitching.

We need our top guys to come from our farm system and only use trades and FA to supplement the roster. For 2017, I don't see us fielding a great lineup no matter what. So focus on putting together a great rotation, hope a couple guys (Peraza, Mallex Smith, Ruiz) come along, and perhaps trade for some decent bats in LF, 3B, or C.

[smootness]

Keep in mind that the guy you seem to believe could be (or would have to be) a TOR guy for us is the same guy who the Cardinals believed they had several guys better than. They had their ace in Wainwright, great young options in Wacha and Martinez, and still have good pitching talent in the system. They didn't go trade one of their top pitchers,

You don't do that unless you're about to lose them. We're not about to lose Wood and shouldn't any time soon if we're smart.

[nsacpi]

I've always thought the area you risk a big long-term contract is with young homegrown hitters. Like we did with Freeman and Simmons. Those are the two best long-term deaks we've seen in a while.

[thethe]

Keep in mind that the guy you seem to believe could be (or would have to be) a TOR guy for us is the same guy who the Cardinals believed they had several guys better than. They had their ace in Wainwright, great young options in Wacha and Martinez, and still have good pitching talent in the system. They didn't go trade one of their top pitchers,

You don't do that unless you're about to lose them. We're not about to lose Wood and shouldn't any time soon if we're smart.

I think Cardinals smartly traded from a surplus to fill a clear need. They are banking on Heyward loving it in St. Louis and signing long term. I think the Braves will do something similar in a year or two.

[Braves1976]

I've always thought the area you risk a big long-term contract is with young homegrown hitters. Like we did with Freeman and Simmons. Those are the two best long-term deaks we've seen in a while.

I agree with that mostly, but if you can lock up pitchers like Teheran and Wood to deals like we made with Teheran. Then that makes sense to do too, I wouldn't do it with many though. However, I would with the Teheran, Wood and Kimbrel types. I wanted to lock up Kimbrel long term after his rookie year. What a huge bargain that could've been too but I know that is outside the box thinking.

[thethe]

I agree with that mostly, but if you can lock up pitchers like Teheran and Wood to deals like we made with Teheran. Then that makes sense to do too, I wouldn't do it with many though. However, I would with the Teheran, Wood and Kimbrel types. I wanted to lock up Kimbrel long term after his rookie year. What a huge bargain that could've been too but I know that is outside the box thinking.

I think the more pitchers you lock up the more you are just testing fate. Its like playing Russian roulette. The percentage chance is so much higher for pitchers that you will have a season+ injury that eventually its oging to happen with the guys you lock up. I'd rather just spend that money on hitting and just have faith in the minor league system.

[smootness]

I think Cardinals smartly traded from a surplus to fill a clear need. They are banking on Heyward loving it in St. Louis and signing long term. I think the Braves will do something similar in a year or two.

But the Cardinals traded from the bottom of their surplus. We would be trading from the top.

They kept their highest-ceiling guys and traded a guy most people view as a 3 or 4. You are advocating trading perhaps our highest-ceiling guy and hoping the same 3 or 4 becomes a high-ceiling guy.

[smootness]

The guys I want to lock up are the guys with the most potential...that is Teheran, Wood, and, if he comes along, Folty.

You lock those guys up and keep the revolving door going at the back...the Millers, Wislers, etc. By the time you develop another high-end guy, it will probably be time for a guy like Teheran to get a massive deal as he nears 30. That's when you may let him go.

You don't build a consistent winner by never keeping your best pitchers around.

[Braves1976]

I think the more pitchers you lock up the more you are just testing fate. Its like playing Russian roulette. The percentage chance is so much higher for pitchers that you will have a season+ injury that eventually its oging to happen with the guys you lock up. I'd rather just spend that money on hitting and just have faith in the minor league system.

I don't put a number on it so much as I go against what I'd do mostly when a pitcher is so good or special that he warrants doing so.

[thethe]

But the Cardinals traded from the bottom of their surplus. We would be trading from the top.

They kept their highest-ceiling guys and traded a guy most people view as a 3 or 4. You are advocating trading perhaps our highest-ceiling guy and hoping the same 3 or 4 becomes a high-ceiling guy.

Well I wouldn't want to trade for a player that is entering the final year of his deal. Then I certainly wouldn't give up Alex Wood. Thats the reason we couldn't get Wacha for Heyward.

[nsacpi]

I agree with that mostly, but if you can lock up pitchers like Teheran and Wood to deals like we made with Teheran. Then that makes sense to do too, I wouldn't do it with many though. However, I would with the Teheran, Wood and Kimbrel types. I wanted to lock up Kimbrel long term after his rookie year. What a huge bargain that could've been too but I know that is outside the box thinking.

The Teheran deal carries more risk than I consider necessary. Before he got hurt everyone wanted something like that for Beachy.

There are always tradeoffs. Are we better off with Teheran long-term than Justin Upton or Heyward, even at a higher price. Would signing Wood long-term mean less chance of holding on to the next wave of young hitters like Peraza.

Generally, I would take my chances on young homegrown hitters.

[Braves1976]

The Teheran deal carries more risk than I consider necessary. Before he got hurt everyone wanted something like that for Beachy.

There are always tradeoffs. Are we better off with Teheran long-term than Justin Upton or Heyward, even at a higher price. Would signing Wood long-term mean less chance of holding on to the next wave of young hitters like Peraza.

Generally, I would take my chances on young homegrown hitters.

I agree with you generally, but the Teheran deal was too good to pass up IMO. So if you can do that again with Wood, I'd do it. But if he asks for too much money and years, that's another story.

That said, I don't like not being careful with Teheran and pushing him after he hurt his knee. He has been bad since and if that turns into something bad it just makes me want Fredi fired more but wouldn't change my mind about the deal.

[50PoundHead]

Miller won't be a TOR guy. Or at least he has far less chance of becoming that than Wood.

Wood, Teheran, and Miller is a great start to a rotation. If Folty comes along, that is a potentially great 1-4. But I would consider Miller the 4.

If you take Wood out, then Teheran and Miller is much less formidable as the known quantities. You would have to have Folty, Wisler, and somebody else all hit or else now you have only a good rotation instead of a great one.

I mean, adding Banuelos, Sims, or Perez suddenly gives you that guy plus Miller and Wisler as guys that are really 3s or lower and only Teheran and Folty (and only if he realizes all his potential) as top 2 guys.

Give me a 1, two 2s and two 3s (or at least three 2s and three 3s) over two 2s, two 3s, and a 4 or 5 all day.

TOR is a nebulous term to me. I think Miller has the opportunity to be very, very good. He's a work-in-progress to some extent, but his GB/FB has improved thus far this season (I don't know if McDowell is changing his approach or not and it is a small sample) and if that continues, I think his ceiling rises.

I like our top three moving ahead, provided they stay healthy.

[Russ2dollas]

Locking up Wood is scary. His motion is a red flag. He's had one TJ already...so if he goes that route he's a two timer TJ.

I'd trade Wood in a heart beat if I got a similar position player (non 1B or SS).

[Braves1976]

Locking up Wood is scary. His motion is a red flag. He's had one TJ already...so if he goes that route he's a two timer TJ.

I'd trade Wood in a heart beat if I got a similar position player (non 1B or SS).

That is the same argument that made him fall in the draft, I am glad it didn't make us pass on him then and I wouldn't trade him now because of it.

[thethe]

That is the same argument that made him fall in the draft, I am glad it didn't make us pass on him then and I wouldn't trade him now because of it.

Every arm is a ticking time-bomb. Its all about when its going to explode. I'd rather trade him 1, 2, even 3 years before the surgery and get amazing value for him than 1 year too late and get nothing for him.

I remember everyone laughing at Carp (myself included) when the rumored trade of Beachy for Lorenzo Cain. How would Cain look in CF right now for us? If they pull the trigger on that deal than BJ is never here and Heyward is still in RF and hte Braves are competing for a world series title.

[Deester11]

Plus the kid is still really learning his craft. He doesn't have the amount of innings a typical AA pitcher would have at this point. The fact that he is getting guys out is certainly encouraging.
Exactly.

[Braves1976]

Every arm is a ticking time-bomb. Its all about when its going to explode. I'd rather trade him 1, 2, even 3 years before the surgery and get amazing value for him than 1 year too late and get nothing for him.

I remember everyone laughing at Carp (myself included) when the rumored trade of Beachy for Lorenzo Cain. How would Cain look in CF right now for us? If they pull the trigger on that deal than BJ is never here and Heyward is still in RF and hte Braves are competing for a world series title.

I wanted Cain as much as anyone and folks were telling me he's trash and making other childish comments. I am not surprised one bit how good he's turned out.

[thethe]

I wanted Cain as much as anyone and folks were telling me he's trash and making other childish comments. I am not surprised one bit how good he's turned out.

But that is what I'm getting at. In my opinion you are much better off at developing lots of pitching and trading/signing/extending hitting. You definitely want an anchor and I believe that will be Teheran but you are risking way too much by spending more than 30% of your team budget on pitching.

[smootness]

And people also would have said you were crazy if you advocated trading 20-year-old Jason Heyward for some young pitcher named Chris Sale. You can always use examples either way.

The bottom line is, you won't ever sustain success if you're always looking to trade your best arms 2-3 years before they potentially get hurt, especially if they're still cheap for a while.

[Hawk]

Grant McAuley
@grantmcauley
Through four starts this season, @GwinnettBraves RHP Mike Foltynewicz has turned in a 2.08 ERA in 21.2 IP, with 30K and a 1.25 WHIP. #Braves

---

Mmmhmm.

[thethe]

And people also would have said you were crazy if you advocated trading 20-year-old Jason Heyward for some young pitcher named Chris Sale. You can always use examples either way.

The bottom line is, you won't ever sustain success if you're always looking to trade your best arms 2-3 years before they potentially get hurt, especially if they're still cheap for a while.

Its just like Poker though. You may have a bad beat but you still play the odds.

The odds tell me to allocation the majority of your budget on hitting and sell your pitching before it gets expensive. To me thats the smart play.

[thethe]

Grant McAuley
@grantmcauley
Through four starts this season, @GwinnettBraves RHP Mike Foltynewicz has turned in a 2.08 ERA in 21.2 IP, with 30K and a 1.25 WHIP. #Braves

---

Mmmhmm.

Could be a potential #1 TOR pitcher. One of the few guys you can actually say that about in all of the minor leagues. Overwhelming odds is he won't be one but at least its a chance.

[Braves1976]

And people also would have said you were crazy if you advocated trading 20-year-old Jason Heyward for some young pitcher named Chris Sale. You can always use examples either way.

The bottom line is, you won't ever sustain success if you're always looking to trade your best arms 2-3 years before they potentially get hurt, especially if they're still cheap for a while.

Yea, plus the bottom line is this is a disagreement over Alex Wood. However, I basically agree with nsacpi for the most part.

[clvclv]

That is the same argument that made him fall in the draft, I am glad it didn't make us pass on him then and I wouldn't trade him now because of it.

A big part of this whole makeover to get back to the "Braves Way" was to put us back in the position of having a couple of inexpensive arms ready to step into the rotation at almost any time. Assuming they don't extend Miller and/or Wood, you have to figure that we're close to the point that we've rebuilt that type of depth. Much like Medlen, Beachy, and Minor before them, you ride them out until they begin to get expensive and then hope to trade them for more pieces BEFORE they get hurt (but not "early" because the sky will fall if they do).

This is part of the reason I can at least imagine Hart & Company kicking the tires on one of the legitimate "Aces" this winter - you lock up at least the top two slots for the foreseeable future with Price/Teheran, then let the merry-go-round begin to circle. See where Miller is and what you can get for him following this season if Folty sticks as a starter because you'll have him and Wisler as the "next guys up". Same with Wood following 2016 - you could have Banuelos breathing down everyone's necks. Come the end of 2017 you hopefully have Jenkins and Sims ready and Fried getting close. And on and on.

No one expects ALL those guys to reach their projected ceilings (or even necessarily work out at all), but if half of them at least come close the organization SHOULDN'T need to spend significant money adding SPs before 2020 if they added an "Ace".