More apeaceful Protesting in Baltimore

[gilesfan]

https://www.facebook.com/bmorearoundtown/videos/10202914038171282/

[Krgrecw]

After last night Baltimore should had called the National Guard in.

[Hawk]

Baltimore is burning.

[thethe]

The world is burning right now. The future is very unclear right now. Scary time in world history if you ask me. A big time clash between the haves and have nots is going to happen.

[Krgrecw]

The world is burning right now. The future is very unclear right now. Scary time in world history if you ask me. A big time clash between the haves and have nots is going to happen.



That's what the media wants you to believe.

[mossy]

The world is burning right now. The future is very unclear right now. Scary time in world history if you ask me. A big time clash between the haves and have nots is going to happen.

I got laughed at for suggesting the very same thing.

[thethe]

That's what the media wants you to believe.

I think its getting to the tipping point. TO me this is much more than just race or religion. The wealthy of the world continue to take more and more and nobody is stopping them.

[Hawk]

Can't believe LEOs haven't been sent in there yet. Ridiculous policing.

[Krgrecw]

I think its getting to the tipping point. TO me this is much more than just race or religion. The wealthy of the world continue to take more and more and nobody is stopping them.


It's race. It'll be spun that's it's about other reasons but it isn't.


all the whites out there are moronic left wing wackos who want to fill good about themselves so they'll March with the 'oppressed'


Thethe, Your income puts you in the top 1-2% in the world. Remember that

[Krgrecw]

Can't believe LEOs haven't been sent in there yet. Ridiculous policing.


They should had called in the Guard the first night, when 30,000 fans at the Orioles game were told that it wasn't safe for them to leave the stadium.

[gilesfan]

The world is burning right now. The future is very unclear right now. Scary time in world history if you ask me. A big time clash between the haves and have nots is going to happen.

So pretty much like the history of the world?

[thethe]

So pretty much like the history of the world?

The advent of the stock market was the beginning of the massive consolidation that has been planned all along. Fix a crash and then those that have all the money can buy up cheap and when everything returns the wealth is further consolidated. I know....its crazy. Just have always felt that the wealthy are playing us like puppets.

[thethe]

It's race. It'll be spun that's it's about other reasons but it isn't.


all the whites out there are moronic left wing wackos who want to fill good about themselves so they'll March with the 'oppressed'


Thethe, Your income puts you in the top 1-2% in the world. Remember that

And my income doesn't come close to the people I'm talking about.

[NinersSBChamps]

Just a bunch of extremely ignorant people. Regardless of their skin color. It takes an awful lot of dumb people to constantly exhibit this type of behavior.

[Krgrecw]

And my income doesn't come close to the people I'm talking about.



Yeah but you 'have' so much more than a large percentage of people in this country have.



These people rioting and looting aren't doing it because they are rallying against the 1%, they're doing it because that's what they are

[gilesfan]

The advent of the stock market was the beginning of the massive consolidation that has been planned all along. Fix a crash and then those that have all the money can buy up cheap and when everything returns the wealth is further consolidated. I know....its crazy. Just have always felt that the wealthy are playing us like puppets.

I dont believe you know what u are talking about.

[AerchAngel]

Yeah but you 'have' so much more than a large percentage of people in this country have.



These people rioting and looting aren't doing it because they are rallying against the 1%, they're doing it because that's what they are

Huh?

[Krgrecw]

[QUOTE=Krgrecw;215243]Yeah but you 'have' so much more than a large percentage of people in this country have.



These people rioting and looting aren't doing it because they are rallying against the 1%, they're doing it because that's what they are

Huh?[/QUOTE



The people rioting and looting. They don't care about this case. They're just thugs.

[weso1]

The mayor is the weakest link of this press conference. How the hell did she get elected?

[AerchAngel]

[QUOTE=Krgrecw;215243]Yeah but you 'have' so much more than a large percentage of people in this country have.



These people rioting and looting aren't doing it because they are rallying against the 1%, they're doing it because that's what they are

Huh?[/QUOTE



The people rioting and looting. They don't care about this case. They're just thugs.

I agree.

[gilesfan]

The mayor is the weakest link of this press conference. How the hell did she get elected?

Its Baltimore

[Krgrecw]

Governor is throwing the mayor under the bus.

[zitothebrave]

Baltimore is burning.

Which is so sad. I've been to Baltimore countless times. My sister went to school there, her and my brother lived there an extremely long time. Baltimore has a place in my heart. It's not close to New Brunswick or even Philly, but it's terrible that this is happening. I wish everyone would cool their ****ing ****. The opportunists who're looting and rioting should be beat within an inch of their lives.

[zitothebrave]

https://imgur.com/a/ReITb

[Bj1133]

It is just maddening that this stuff happens

[Krgrecw]

Stupid that the mayor didn't impose a curfew for tonight

[AerchAngel]

Thugs wanna be thugs and you riot over this?


03-20-15 dealing cocaine
08-28-08 possession of narcotics
10-05-12 illegal gambling
01-25-14 possession of narcotics over 10 grams
08-24-07 manufacturing and distribution narcotics
08/29-07 distribution of narcotics
09-16-08 distribution of narcotics
04-16-08 distribution of narcotics
05-09-12 distribution of narcotics
01-04-15 distribution of narcotics
12-31-14 distribution of narcotics
05-13-14 stolen property
07-16-08 distribution of narcotics
03-28-08 possession of narcotics
02-12-08 distribution of narcotics
09-29-13 distribution of narcotics
12-04-14 distribution of narcotics
12-04-14 possession of narcotics
03-20-08 burglary
03-20-08 possession of narcotics
09-21-07 distribution of narcotics
04-30-08 unlawful possession (two counts)

(Source Maryland Dept of Justice)

[AerchAngel]

He should have been in jail after the 5th conviction. My cousin got 3 years after his first conviction of having a pound a weed in his trunk with no intention to sale, he just like smoking that schit. He already had a good job with bennies and what he said, no drug tests.

[NinersSBChamps]

These maniacal thugs want to destroy their city. I say let them. Don't even clean up the messes they create. Let these scumbags live in what they destroyed.

[Krgrecw]

These maniacal thugs want to destroy their city. I say let them. Don't even clean up the messes they create. Let these scumbags live in what they destroyed.

Agree

[zitothebrave]

Both the opinions expressed above this post are dumb.

[Hawk]

Thugs wanna be thugs and you riot over this?


03-20-15 dealing cocaine
08-28-08 possession of narcotics
10-05-12 illegal gambling
01-25-14 possession of narcotics over 10 grams
08-24-07 manufacturing and distribution narcotics
08/29-07 distribution of narcotics
09-16-08 distribution of narcotics
04-16-08 distribution of narcotics
05-09-12 distribution of narcotics
01-04-15 distribution of narcotics
12-31-14 distribution of narcotics
05-13-14 stolen property
07-16-08 distribution of narcotics
03-28-08 possession of narcotics
02-12-08 distribution of narcotics
09-29-13 distribution of narcotics
12-04-14 distribution of narcotics
12-04-14 possession of narcotics
03-20-08 burglary
03-20-08 possession of narcotics
09-21-07 distribution of narcotics
04-30-08 unlawful possession (two counts)

(Source Maryland Dept of Justice)

Holy ****. Truth.

[Krgrecw]

Holy ****. Truth.


I'm sure he was a nice kid who was misunderstood

[zitothebrave]

I'm sure he was a nice kid who was misunderstood

I see no violent crimes in his resume. I also assume this is arrest record not convictions.

[AerchAngel]

I see no violent crimes in his resume. I also assume this is arrest record not convictions.

Seriously?

My cuz busted in Paducah Ky, it is not like they have a lot of hoodrats running around selling schit. some, but not all, a lot of them smoke a lot of weed.

He go 3 years, but if you are in the city, they could convict you, but the paperwork and an overworked and full jail, why bother over weed, but COKE, that is a DIFFERENT STORY!!

He knew he was busted when he made eye contact. I will defend MJ and stuff like that but COKE, CRACK, HEROIN, METH, your ass need to put in jail.

[zitothebrave]

Eh. Sorry, I don't think non-violent offenders should be in jail. legalize and tax it.

[AerchAngel]

Eh. Sorry, I don't think non-violent offenders should be in jail. legalize and tax it.

MJ I agree.

Crack, Heroin and Meth, are you fu*cking NUTS? That schit will fu*k you up for life.

[AerchAngel]

Eh. Sorry, I don't think non-violent offenders should be in jail. legalize and tax it.

Oh if you write 1000's of dollars of worthless checks, you don't need to be put in jail.

What about Bernie Madoff and what he did, since it was violent, he should not go to jail?

Or what about a person taking a computer out of the store and eventually get caught, after stealing 20 of them and making tons of money on hot stuff?

Come on with that bullschit about all non-violent crime should not be put in jail. The worse criminals in the world are white collared criminals bilking idiots for untold sums of money.

[goldfly]

his record is totally irrelevant to everything

[AerchAngel]

his record is totally irrelevant to everything

Then why run?

[goldfly]

Then why run?

again, irrelevant

[zitothebrave]

Oh if you write 1000's of dollars of worthless checks, you don't need to be put in jail.

What about Bernie Madoff and what he did, since it was violent, he should not go to jail?

Or what about a person taking a computer out of the store and eventually get caught, after stealing 20 of them and making tons of money on hot stuff?

Come on with that bullschit about all non-violent crime should not be put in jail. The worse criminals in the world are white collared criminals bilking idiots for untold sums of money.
You're talking about theft of property which he was only arrested for once. Twice if you count possession of stolen property. Totally different than selling drugs to willing users. If he was walking around pricking people with the stuff then you'd have a case or stealing their money then giving them sympathy crack there's a case.

[Hawk]

Totally different than selling drugs to willing users. If he was walking around pricking people with the stuff then you'd have a case or stealing their money then giving them sympathy crack there's a case.

Um, what?

Regardless of your personal position on the consumption and distribution of narcotics, they are illegal (for reasons you clearly misunderstand).

And this dude was busted for violating those laws more times in the past half-decade than I have fingers. That's a problematic trend indicative of an individual who possesses a wanton, wholesale disrespect not only for our nation's laws, but also the people that enforce them.

[zitothebrave]

And in the grand scheme, who cares. My belief is simple, he was yet another casualty of our prison industrial complex society.

[Hawk]

That's a sad oversimplification.

[jpx7]

That's a problematic trend indicative of an individual who possesses a wanton, wholesale disrespect not only for our nation's laws, but also the people that enforce them.

That's hardly the only or the most problematic trend on display in this situation.

[zitothebrave]

That's a sad oversimplification.

A sad oversimplification is that man arrested for multiple drug possession and sale is somehow not worthy of life as is implied by some here.

[Hawk]

That's hardly the only or the most problematic trend on display in this situation.

And those (others) would be?

[Hawk]

A sad oversimplification is that man arrested for multiple drug possession and sale is somehow not worthy of life as is implied by some here.

https://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw2a495AkR1qbn5m1o1_500.jpg

[jpx7]

And those (others) would be?

The state's repeatedly demonstrated wanton disregard for the lives and bodies of black and brown folk in this country.

[57Brave]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDiH0GrWIAEgar2.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ptrc2cWRxU

[Hawk]

The state's repeatedly demonstrated wanton disregard for the lives and bodies of black and brown folk in this country.

I don't disagree that is the perception, especially given recent events, but you are going to have a hard time finding any sort of legitimate empirical evidence to back that claim up.

Is police brutality a problem that needs to be addressed? Absolutely.

[zitothebrave]

I don't disagree that is the perception, especially given recent events, but you are going to have a hard time finding any sort of legitimate empirical evidence to back that claim up.

Is police brutality a problem that needs to be addressed? Absolutely.

A widely publicized report in October 2014 by ProPublica, a leading investigative and data journalism outlet, concluded that young black males are 21 times more likely to be shot by police than their white counterparts: “The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police.”

http://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/police-reasonable-force-brutality-race-research-review-statistics#

[Hawk]

A widely publicized report in October 2014 by ProPublica, a leading investigative and data journalism outlet, concluded that young black males are 21 times more likely to be shot by police than their white counterparts: “The 1,217 deadly police shootings from 2010 to 2012 captured in the federal data show that blacks, age 15 to 19, were killed at a rate of 31.17 per million, while just 1.47 per million white males in that age range died at the hands of police.”

http://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/police-reasonable-force-brutality-race-research-review-statistics#

From the same article:

FBI Director James B. Comey stated the following in a remarkable February 2015 speech:

Not long after riots broke out in Ferguson late last summer, I asked my staff to tell me how many people shot by police were African-American in this country. I wanted to see trends. I wanted to see information. They couldn’t give it to me, and it wasn’t their fault. Demographic data regarding officer-involved shootings is not consistently reported to us through our Uniform Crime Reporting Program. Because reporting is voluntary, our data is incomplete and therefore, in the aggregate, unreliable.

I recently listened to a thoughtful big city police chief express his frustration with that lack of reliable data. He said he didn’t know whether the Ferguson police shot one person a week, one a year, or one a century, and that in the absence of good data, “all we get are ideological thunderbolts, when what we need are ideological agnostics who use information to try to solve problems.” He’s right.

The first step to understanding what is really going on in our communities and in our country is to gather more and better data related to those we arrest, those we confront for breaking the law and jeopardizing public safety, and those who confront us. “Data” seems a dry and boring word but, without it, we cannot understand our world and make it better.

How can we address concerns about “use of force,” how can we address concerns about officer-involved shootings if we do not have a reliable grasp on the demographics and circumstances of those incidents? We simply must improve the way we collect and analyze data to see the true nature of what’s happening in all of our communities.

The FBI tracks and publishes the number of “justifiable homicides” reported by police departments. But, again, reporting by police departments is voluntary and not all departments participate. That means we cannot fully track the number of incidents in which force is used by police, or against police, including non-fatal encounters, which are not reported at all.

[Hawk]

This quote needs to be the mantra for this entire thread: “all we get are ideological thunderbolts, when what we need are ideological agnostics who use information to try to solve problems.”

[zitothebrave]

I linked to that article for other content.

Here's from the source they quoted

"There is, then, value in what the data can show while accepting, and accounting for, its limitations. Indeed, while the absolute numbers are problematic, a comparison between white and black victims shows important trends. Our analysis included dividing the number of people of each race killed by police by the number of people of that race living in the country at the time, to produce two different rates: the risk of getting killed by police if you are white and if you are black."

and

"One way of appreciating that stark disparity, ProPublica's analysis shows, is to calculate how many more whites over those three years would have had to have been killed for them to have been at equal risk. The number is jarring – 185, more than one per week."

I severely doubt that there are a massive number of unreported killing of white people by the police. Of course there is an issue with the absolutes of the statistics. But there is a thing called a trend. We can predict presidential results based on a small number of precincts reporting based on demographics and voting trends.

[Hawk]

I severely doubt that there are a massive number of unreported killing of white people by the police. Of course there is an issue with the absolutes of the statistics. But there is a thing called a trend. We can predict presidential results based on a small number of precincts reporting based on demographics and voting trends.

Surely you understand the inherent multitude of problems in trying to construct a trend-chart from one restricted demo study.

Then again, maybe not, since the order of the day seems to be leaping at conclusions without taking full account of the facts and circumstances.

[Hawk]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDiH0GrWIAEgar2.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ptrc2cWRxU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlc6xCPx60U

[AerchAngel]

again, irrelevant

Relevant, if innocent, you talk to to the po po an live, you run, you take that risk of getting capped or in this case beaten to death.

Cops should be punished, lost of badge at a minimum, 2nd hand murder at a maximum. But this guy brought it upon himself and if he did what any sane, responsible and upstanding adult would do is do what the police say.

[57Brave]

The 1970 song I brought is about being arrested / threatened by the authorities based on color and foretells the saga of Trayvon Martin etal.
The one you posted was about a love sick puppy dog

http://www.thenation.com/article/181404/how-trayvon-martins-death-launched-new-generation-black-activism

[Hawk]

The 1970 song I brought is about being arrested / threatened by the authorities based on color and foretells the saga of Trayvon Martin etal.
The one you posted was about a love sick puppy dog

http://www.thenation.com/article/181404/how-trayvon-martins-death-launched-new-generation-black-activism

Metaphor is the word you are looking for.

[The Chosen One]

Video of that Fox News reporter trying to bait during the interview with the city councilman was awful. Just kept asking more instigating questions trying to get a juicy answer.

[Julio3000]

Um, I kinda dig the point you're trying to make about Dir Comey's speech, Hawk, but at just this instant that really sounds like musing about angels and heads of pins, etc.

And hey, nice to know that, as always, the really pressing issue is not death in police custody, but damage to private property.

[NinersSBChamps]

Both the opinions expressed above this post are dumb.

So what then? Reward this behavior. What these people are doing is going to accomplish what exactly?

[bravesnumberone]

Obama using the "code words" now.

[zitothebrave]

So what then? Reward this behavior. What these people are doing is going to accomplish what exactly?

You want to leave a city in ruin? Have innocents die and not have their way of life recovered? Good to know you've got a ****ty value of other human life.

[Krgrecw]

So what then? Reward this behavior. What these people are doing is going to accomplish what exactly?


You want to leave a city in ruin? Have innocents die and not have their way of life recovered? Good to know you've got a ****ty value of other human life.



So these people are destroying their own city And you care more about them than the people who will be out of jobs and the the businesses lost due to their rioting. Makes sense.

[zitothebrave]

So these people are destroying their own city And you care more about them than the people who will be out of jobs and the the businesses lost due to their rioting. Makes sense.

No I care about the peopel who're losing their jobs and whatnot. Niners is advocating leaving a city in ruin.

[zitothebrave]

http://imgur.com/l8fAR18

[NinersSBChamps]

You want to leave a city in ruin? Have innocents die and not have their way of life recovered? Good to know you've got a ****ty value of other human life.

No. But why build something up so people can tear it down?

[zitothebrave]

http://imgur.com/So98Avy

[goldfly]

So these people are destroying their own city And you care more about them than the people who will be out of jobs and the the businesses lost due to their rioting. Makes sense.

everything you mentioned can be replaced

humans being killed by police forces around the country can't

[NinersSBChamps]

These piles of human waste are destroying their own city. So those people they are protesting against or whatever they call it are going to be the ones who will help restore and rebuild.

[NinersSBChamps]

http://imgur.com/So98Avy

So every white person is the problem them, right?

[zitothebrave]

No. But why build something up so people can tear it down?

How can you say no, but then say what you said after that? Seriously?

[zitothebrave]

So every white person is the problem them, right?

Nope. Just trying to show that people in that city really care. There's lots more going on that's the same.

[NinersSBChamps]

How can you say no, but then say what you said after that? Seriously?
You mentioned human life.

These people aren't acting very human. So in turn they don't need to be treated that way.

[goldfly]

These piles of human waste are destroying their own city. So those people they are protesting against or whatever they call it are going to be the ones who will help restore and rebuild.

John Angelos (Orioles COO):


That said, my greater source of personal concern, outrage and sympathy beyond this particular case is focused neither upon one night’s property damage nor upon the acts, but is focused rather upon the past four-decade period during which an American political elite have shipped middle class and working class jobs away from Baltimore and cities and towns around the U.S. to third-world dictatorships like China and others, plunged tens of millions of good, hard-working Americans into economic devastation, and then followed that action around the nation by diminishing every American’s civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an ever-declining standard of living and suffering at the butt end of an ever-more militarized and aggressive surveillance state.

The innocent working families of all backgrounds whose lives and dreams have been cut short by excessive violence, surveillance, and other abuses of the Bill of Rights by government pay the true price, and ultimate price, and one that far exceeds the importances of any kids’ game played tonight, or ever, at Camden Yards. We need to keep in mind people are suffering and dying around the U.S., and while we are thankful no one was injured at Camden Yards, there is a far bigger picture for poor Americans in Baltimore and everywhere who don’t have jobs and are losing economic civil and legal rights

[goldfly]

You mentioned human life.

These people aren't acting very human. So in turn they don't need to be treated that way.

are we talking about the cops that severed the spine of someone in their custody or people angry about a system that protects those cops?

[zitothebrave]

You mentioned human life.

These people aren't acting very human. So in turn they don't need to be treated that way.

So the people who work at the CVS that was wrecked don't deserve to go back to their jobs? You're not acting like a human.

[NinersSBChamps]

Again I am still waiting to here an answer. What does all this accomplish?

[zitothebrave]

Again I am still waiting to here an answer. What does all this accomplish?

What the **** are you talking about?

[goldfly]

Again I am still waiting to here an answer. What does all this accomplish?

well, it's still going on

but as the chinese proverb says

we will see

[Carp]

Relevant, if innocent, you talk to to the po po an live, you run, you take that risk of getting capped or in this case beaten to death.

Cops should be punished, lost of badge at a minimum, 2nd hand murder at a maximum. But this guy brought it upon himself and if he did what any sane, responsible and upstanding adult would do is do what the police say.


I wouldn't say" brought it upon himself" is a good choice of words. Was he wrong for running? Absolutely. But that is not an excuse for excessive force.

[Krgrecw]

So every white person is the problem them, right?


I don't think that Zito realizes that he linked to a picture of a 'hate group'


The Nation of Islam cares as much about the blacks in that Neighborhood as Obama does.

[zitothebrave]

I don't think that Zito realizes that he linked to a picture of a 'hate group'


The Nation of Islam cares as much about the blacks in that Neighborhood as Obama does.

Ummmmm, if the Westboro Baptist church stopped a group from lynching gay people, their actions would be just even if their past wasn't. Bad people do good things as good people do bad things. Actions are what should be praised, not people.

[AerchAngel]

I wouldn't say" brought it upon himself" is a good choice of words. Was he wrong for running? Absolutely. But that is not an excuse for excessive force.

Cause: Ran
Effect: Dead

Cops should be punished, yes, said that from the beginning, but like cause and effect, if he didn't run, he would be alive and back on the street slinging cocaine.

[AerchAngel]

I don't think that Zito realizes that he linked to a picture of a 'hate group'


The Nation of Islam cares as much about the blacks in that Neighborhood as Obama does.


Ain't that the truth. They rob money from out families and Obama rob for the votes and have not lift one finger to help with our problems, not one finger.

We were slaves with no mouths. He is first to punish blacks who defy him though to silence us. You know the masters still need that control.

[Krgrecw]

Ain't that the truth. They rob money from out families and Obama rob for the votes and have not lift one finger to help with our problems, not one finger.

We were slaves with no mouths. He is first to punish blacks who defy him though to silence us. You know the masters still need that control.


Yeap, but don't ever forget that it's the Republicans that are racist and that democrats look out for African Americans

[Hawk]

Cause: Ran
Effect: Dead

Cops should be punished, yes, said that from the beginning, but like cause and effect, if he didn't run, he would be alive and back on the street slinging cocaine.

Elementary, my dear Watson.

[AerchAngel]

Yeap, but don't ever forget that it's the Republicans that are racist and that democrats look out for African Americans

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!

We are slaves to the Democrat party, everyone knows that.

They say you were a slave too long, we will repay you so you really don't have to work. But if you do not want to take from our hands and actually work, those evil Republicans will not pay you your worth.

[AerchAngel]

Elementary, my dear Watson.

We are talking about bleeding heart liberals who have no common sense in what REAL LIFE is all about. Protect the criminal at all cost mentality. No wonder my people commit so much crime, no one is doing anything about it, the father? Where is he? Like that mother that beat the tar out of her son, BRILLIANT, for looting, but no the Liberals did not like seeing that it went viral, my first question was, WHY ISN'T THE DAD AROUND TO DO IT? Maybe he is looting and rioting as well. The problem is the Democrats and Liberals are doing nothing for the black race. We have so much crap stacked up against us and they want to keep us down. Enlighten people like me with two parent household that is approaching 50 years being married taught us better. They really hate me bringing up the parent card in regards to others, what has Barrack, Jackass and Rev Dullton has done for our race in the 21st century? They cannot bring up a simple thing. Sad, really.

[Hawk]

And hey, nice to know that, as always, the really pressing issue is not death in police custody, but damage to private property.

It's disconcerting that the youth involved in the most troublesome 'protests' were allowed to continue as long as they did and will most likely not face any consequences for their actions.

Who pays for it? Who cleans it up? Certainly not the perpetrators of the crime.

How is that fair? How is that just?

What kind of message does it send to youth across the country? Ignore the legal system and destroy ****.

It's indefensible.

We aren't an anarchic society, but it's amazing to watch the left revert to this ideological comfort-zone when they don't get their way and leave systemic government behind to clean up the mess while they ultimately accomplish squat -- that is, except making things harder for everybody else.

[AerchAngel]

It's disconcerting that the youth involved in the most troublesome 'protests' were allowed to continue as long as they did and will most likely not face any consequences for their actions.

Who pays for it? Who cleans it up? Certainly not the perpetrators of the crime.

How is that fair? How is that just?

What kind of message does it send to youth across the country? Ignore the legal system and destroy ****.

It's indefensible.

We aren't an anarchic society, but it's amazing to watch the left revert to this ideological comfort-zone when they don't get their way and leave systemic government behind to clean up the mess while they ultimately accomplish squat -- that is, except making things harder for everybody else.


The left breeds anarchy and no accountability. That is their base. Basically no common sense, no moral compass, protect the voting block and not make people accountable.

[57Brave]

The left breeds anarchy and no accountability. That is their base. Basically no common sense, no moral compass, protect the voting block and not make people accountable.

Says you !

[thethe]

It's disconcerting that the youth involved in the most troublesome 'protests' were allowed to continue as long as they did and will most likely not face any consequences for their actions.

Who pays for it? Who cleans it up? Certainly not the perpetrators of the crime.

How is that fair? How is that just?

What kind of message does it send to youth across the country? Ignore the legal system and destroy ****.

It's indefensible.

We aren't an anarchic society, but it's amazing to watch the left revert to this ideological comfort-zone when they don't get their way and leave systemic government behind to clean up the mess while they ultimately accomplish squat -- that is, except making things harder for everybody else.

Also, what abou the damage it does to the community when businesses lack the confidence that they are safe in that area. It just plunges these ghetto's into worse conditions.

[57Brave]

Worse conditions than wondering if you are to be randomly stopped-shot or beaten to death by the cops ?
That's gotta be bad for business too

[Hawk]

Also, what abou the damage it does to the community when businesses lack the confidence that they are safe in that area. It just plunges these ghetto's into worse conditions.

It goes beyond the businesses, what about the individuals that actually have to live in these 'communities'?

Would you feel confident walking those streets? Especially now? It's tragically Kubrickian.

What's the liberal solution? Resources! Let's throw our money at the problem (and legislate the hell out of it) and that will magically make everybody equal ... and happy!

Groan.

We've had to suffer through 8 years of a reputed 'community builder' in the Oval Office and look at some of this country's traditionally great metropolises; Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Atlanta -- any improvement there?

Race relations? At a fever pitch.

Give us a real leader for Christ's sake.

[AerchAngel]

Worse conditions than wondering if you are to be randomly stopped-shot or beaten to death by the cops ?
That's gotta be bad for business too

I feel more safe being a den of black hating cops than walking on the south of Chicago in my Carlton Banks khaki shorts and IZOD shirt I wear regularly.

[AerchAngel]

It goes beyond the businesses, what about the individuals that actually have to live in these 'communities'?

Would you feel confident walking those streets? Especially now? It's tragically Kubrickian.

What's the liberal solution? Resources! Let's throw our money at the problem (and legislate the hell out of it) and that will magically make everybody equal ... and happy!

Groan.

We've had to suffer through 8 years of a reputed 'community builder' in the Oval Office and look at some of this country's traditionally great metropolises; Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Atlanta -- any improvement there?

Race relations? At a fever pitch.

Give us a real leader for Christ's sake.

Liberals/Democrats would be hard press to find any positives that the great community builder and president has done for the community that voted him in. He basically ignored us and think us too stupid to ask for anything. Being the first black president is good enough prize for our pride he figured.

[jpx7]

We aren't an anarchic society, but it's amazing to watch the left revert to this ideological comfort-zone when they don't get their way and leave systemic government behind to clean up the mess while they ultimately accomplish squat -- that is, except making things harder for everybody else.

Ha.


“all we get are ideological thunderbolts, when what we need are ideological agnostics who use information to try to solve problems.”

How quickly we deviate from our mantras.

[Hawk]

How quickly we deviate from our mantras.

Your people deviated first, I get to enjoy a little lawlessness ... it's only fair.

[Julio3000]

It goes beyond the businesses, what about the individuals that actually have to live in these 'communities'?

Would you feel confident walking those streets? Especially now? It's tragically Kubrickian.

What's the liberal solution? Resources! Let's throw our money at the problem (and legislate the hell out of it) and that will magically make everybody equal ... and happy!

Groan.

We've had to suffer through 8 years of a reputed 'community builder' in the Oval Office and look at some of this country's traditionally great metropolises; Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Atlanta -- any improvement there?

Race relations? At a fever pitch.

Give us a real leader for Christ's sake.

What's the conservative solution? Wait, I know this one!

Tax cuts and deregulation.

That playbook is a mite dusty, too.

[Hawk]

What's the conservative solution? Wait, I know this one!

Tax cuts and deregulation.

That playbook is a mite dusty, too.

I'm not saying that it isn't -- and hopefully this will shift the national debate with regard to necessary reforms in that arena in a constructive direction (although I doubt that it will) -- but whatever practice is being employed now is clearly NOT working.

[jpx7]

"My people" (whoever that is) deviated from your mantra, which thus justly countenances your deviation from your own guiding principle?

Either that's a flimsy and shallow exercise in self-justification gymnastics, and you never really held the agnosticism you preached; or you simply don't know how to practice agnosticism (... which I guess would at least, amusingly, fit a very literal/original definition, as the alpha-privative of gnosis).

[Hawk]

"My people" (whoever that is) deviated from your mantra, which thus justly countenances your deviation from your own guiding principle?

Either that's s flimsy and shallow exercise in self-justification gymnastics, and you never really held the agnosticism you preached; or you don't know how to practice agnosticism (... which I guess would at least, amusingly, fit a very literal/original definition, as the alpha-privative of gnosis).


This quote needs to be the mantra for this entire thread: “all we get are ideological thunderbolts, when what we need are ideological agnostics who use information to try to solve problems.”

I think you need to read my quote again ... and then tell me at which point I personally proclaimed to be an ideological agnostic.

I'm like an alcoholic extolling the virtues of sobriety. It sounds like paradise, but I'm content where I am as long as I have a drinking partner. And it appears I have a few.

After that, I would greatly appreciate if you would explain to me (preferably without any pseudo-conclusions about my religion) what the hell "alpha-privative of gnosis" means.

[jpx7]

I merely assumed you'd want to practice what you'd preached—a failure in agnosticism on my part. Personally, I find virtue in agnosticism, trying as it can be; I meanwhile find little virtue in sobriety.

In Greek, if you put an "a" in front of a word, it roughly negates it. So, gnosis is wisdom, and its alpha-privative (agnosis) is a literally a lack thereof (though it's generally taken to mean a conscious recognition of that lack thereof).

[goldfly]

Cause: Ran
Effect: Dead

Cops should be punished, yes, said that from the beginning, but like cause and effect, if he didn't run, he would be alive and back on the street slinging cocaine.

friend who is a lawyer wrote this recently:

"Of all the police-related killings of citizens recently, only ‪#‎MichaelBrown‬'s falls within the purview of a justified action, in that the allegations are and were that the officer met force with force. Whether you believe this to be true is a completely different story, and I've written for The 11th Hour on how affirmative defenses should be raised in public trials, not in backroom grand jury proceedings, so the public can evaluate the candor of the accused.
Make no mistake: ‪#‎FreddieGray‬, ‪#‎EricGarner‬, ‪#‎WalterScott‬, and others had the right to have a judge and jury determine their guilt and their sentences. Regardless of their transgressions, past, present, or ongoing, none of them committed any offense for which the state had the authority to take their lives. So, while conservative pundits go on their tirades defaming the dead, remember they died for probationary offenses, not for capital offenses."

[Hawk]

So, while conservative pundits go on their tirades defaming the dead, remember they died for probationary offenses, not for capital offenses.

I agreed with 100% of what your friend wrote until this sentence.

I honestly do not see how stating that the chance of this man (or the others) being killed would have infinitely smaller had he (they) not engaged in criminal activity is considered defamatory (from a legal or linguistic standpoint). Inappropriate? Eh. But defamatory? That's a hard sell.

There is a commonality between all three. They all broke the law. To me, which degree doesn't really matter.

[Julio3000]

I agreed with 100% of what your friend wrote until this sentence.

I honestly do not see how stating that the chance of this man (or the others) being killed would have infinitely smaller had he (they) not engaged in criminal activity is considered defamatory (from a legal or linguistic standpoint). Inappropriate? Eh. But defamatory? That's a hard sell.

There is a commonality between all three. They all broke the law. To me, which degree doesn't really matter.

Really.

You've broken the law, surely.

[AerchAngel]

I agreed with 100% of what your friend wrote until this sentence.

I honestly do not see how stating that the chance of this man (or the others) being killed would have infinitely smaller had he (they) not engaged in criminal activity is considered defamatory (from a legal or linguistic standpoint). Inappropriate? Eh. But defamatory? That's a hard sell.

There is a commonality between all three. They all broke the law. To me, which degree doesn't really matter.

Make no mistake, the cops should be punished as well.

Chicken/egg is in effect. You make a choice in life that is against civilization then the punish you endure is of your own fault, but those who use death as the ends to these means are no better than the one that committed the crime.

But that does not matter now, the riots is an issue, because of this, businesses have been destroyed, people livelihood has been destroyed for what? For a man who broke the law and in effect resisted arrest and died because of his stupidity?

[Hawk]

Really.

You've broken the law, surely.

Yes, Julio, I ride my bike drunk basically nightly. It's called BUI down here.

---

I get that the punishment does not equal the crime. But that's phase two, and you're ignoring phase one.

[thethe]

Worse conditions than wondering if you are to be randomly stopped-shot or beaten to death by the cops ?
That's gotta be bad for business too

Does that happen often as opposed to the number of robberies/gang activity/etc...?

[AerchAngel]

friend who is a lawyer wrote this recently:

"Of all the police-related killings of citizens recently, only ‪#‎MichaelBrown‬'s falls within the purview of a justified action, in that the allegations are and were that the officer met force with force. Whether you believe this to be true is a completely different story, and I've written for The 11th Hour on how affirmative defenses should be raised in public trials, not in backroom grand jury proceedings, so the public can evaluate the candor of the accused.
Make no mistake: ‪#‎FreddieGray‬, ‪#‎EricGarner‬, ‪#‎WalterScott‬, and others had the right to have a judge and jury determine their guilt and their sentences. Regardless of their transgressions, past, present, or ongoing, none of them committed any offense for which the state had the authority to take their lives. So, while conservative pundits go on their tirades defaming the dead, remember they died for probationary offenses, not for capital offenses."

An easy answer.

Why commit a crime in the first place? What good comes of it when the punishment can go from a fine, county jail, penitentiary or a finality - death?

Crime does pay, just not the way you perceive it.

[Julio3000]

Yes, Julio, I ride my bike drunk basically nightly. It's called BUI down here.

---

I get that the punishment does not equal the crime. But that's phase two, and you're ignoring phase one.

Dude, you said the degree doesn't matter, in reference to a guy losing his life. There's really no point in discussing phase X 'til you've somehow explained that.

I ride my bike drunk basically nightly.

Better keep a handle on that ****, homie. I speak from experience. . . a couple of concussions and some permanent facial scarring's worth.

[goldfly]

Why commit a crime in the first place?

for many different reasons

we don't have judge dredds on the street

but it seems you might be advocating for it with this type of thinking it seems

[thethe]

for many different reasons

we don't have judge dredds on the street

but it seems you might be advocating for it with this type of thinking it seems

Are those reasons justified?

[weso1]

The biggest problem in black neighborhoods by far is the lack of parental guidance, especially due to the father largely being absent from the picture in many black families. This is what leads to the drug problems and issues with the police. The cop thing is overstated and really just a symptom of the disease. The current welfare system is the biggest contributing factor to this issue of broken families. This can mostly be fixed by creating incentives for two parent families and work. Rather than just handing out food stamps, disability, medicaid, long term unemployment, etc. There should be a strong sense of shame for not being part of your child's life. Black community leaders need to step up here. Black athletes, Obama, local leaders, rap stars etc.

And this is an area where I think the republicans should push in regards to their religious views. Rather than concentrating on gay marriage or stuff like that, they should promote and encourage the idea of 2 parent families. Not only is it a Christian principle, but it's statistically proven to be a benefit to children.

[Hawk]

Dude, you said the degree doesn't matter, in reference to a guy losing his life. There's really no point in discussing phase X 'til you've somehow explained that.

No.

I said there was a commonality between Michael Brown, Walter Scott, and Freddie Gray -- they all broke the law, and they all resisted arrested (Michael became combative, Walter and Freddie ran).

What they did in breaking the law does not matter to me.

They placed themselves in the position of physical police intervention (that degree of criminality is pretty profound). I am not saying that the police had any right, whatsoever, to abuse their legal authority to apprehend them.

But it doesn't negate the circumstances which caused the event to transpire in the first place, and we're continuing to walk a very thin line by attempting to discount it.

[Julio3000]

No.

I said there was a commonality between Michael Brown, Walter Scott, and Freddie Gray -- they all broke the law, and they all resisted arrested (Michael became combative, Walter and Freddie ran).

What they did in breaking the law does not matter to me.

They placed themselves in the position of physical police intervention (that degree of criminality is pretty profound). I am not saying that the police had any right, whatsoever, to abuse their legal authority to apprehend them.

But it doesn't negate the circumstances which caused the event to transpire in the first place, and we're continuing to walk a very thin line by attempting to discount it.

Is it?

Reminds of the Chapelle sketch where he and Chip ask the cop for directions.

[Hawk]

Is it?

Reminds of the Chapelle sketch where he and Chip ask the cop for directions.

I don't want to put words into your mouth or anything, but are you saying that running from a police officer is acceptable behavior?

Because we're not talking about Rhode Island rolls here.

[Julio3000]

No.

I said there was a commonality between Michael Brown, Walter Scott, and Freddie Gray -- they all broke the law, and they all resisted arrested (Michael became combative, Walter and Freddie ran).

What they did in breaking the law does not matter to me.

They placed themselves in the position of physical police intervention (that degree of criminality is pretty profound). I am not saying that the police had any right, whatsoever, to abuse their legal authority to apprehend them.

But it doesn't negate the circumstances which caused the event to transpire in the first place, and we're continuing to walk a very thin line by attempting to discount it.

Man, I hate to pull this card on you, but something tells me you've never been in the "wrong" place at the wrong time, and looked, well, "wrong" to the police.

[Julio3000]

I don't want to put words into your mouth or anything, but are you saying that running from a police officer is acceptable behavior?

You said they placed themselves in the position of physical police intervention . . . as if that itself isn't an issue subject to considerable debate.

[Hawk]

You said they placed themselves in the position of physical police intervention . . . as if that itself isn't an issue subject to considerable debate.

Unless I'm reading the wrong newspapers, I don't see how it's even a debate.

How else do you apprehend somebody who is running from a police officer/resisting arrest?

I swear to God I'm not intentionally trying to be obtuse here or provoke you.

[Julio3000]

Unless I'm reading the wrong newspapers, I don't see how it's even a debate.

How else do you apprehend somebody who is running from a police officer/resisting arrest?

I swear to God I'm not intentionally trying to be obtuse here or provoke you.

One thing subject to debate is what creates the "position of physical police intervention." You're intimating that flight creates it. I'm not sure that's the case . . . i.e. that threshold is often reached before that point.

[Julio3000]

Unless I'm reading the wrong newspapers, I don't see how it's even a debate.

How else do you apprehend somebody who is running from a police officer/resisting arrest?

I swear to God I'm not intentionally trying to be obtuse here or provoke you.

I'd humbly suggest not shooting them, choking them to death, or beating them senseless.

[Hawk]

One thing subject to debate is what creates the "position of physical police intervention." You're intimating that flight creates it. I'm not sure that's the case . . . i.e. that threshold is often reached before that point.

I'm talking about these three cases, specifically.

You are using broader strokes, which I get, but I worry that some (not all) of the paint you are using was mixed using social misconceptions from these very cases.

[AerchAngel]

Man, I hate to pull this card on you, but something tells me you've never been in the "wrong" place at the wrong time, and looked, well, "wrong" to the police.

I have and been pulled over and guns drawn on me. Did I think of running? No, never crossed my mind. I didn't break any laws so I let the police ask me some questions and then they let me go. If I did do something wrong, I sure in hell ain't running or I would be a chalk line and a garden plot that my kids to place a flower were I got bullet holes in me.

If you didn't do anything wrong, there is no need to run or resist arrest. Police are not going to randomly grab you and beat the crap out of you. You had to do something to provoke them.

I seen police white people up a few times and it is hilarious. Drunk, resisting arrest, kicking and clawing at the police. Then you see more cops join the tussle until they subdue him.

Do you ever watch COPS?

[Hawk]

If you didn't do anything wrong, there is no need to run or resist arrest.

Somehow, apparently, this is not true ...

[Hawk]

Man, I hate to pull this card on you, but something tells me you've never been in the "wrong" place at the wrong time, and looked, well, "wrong" to the police.

Not in America, but I have been in this position many times abroad and can relate to the idea of knowing that my actions/words/fate are basically prejudged courtesy my skin color.

I'm still going to respect men with guns and badges no matter where I'm at though.

[Julio3000]

I have and been pulled over and guns drawn on me. Did I think of running? No, never crossed my mind. I didn't break any laws so I let the police ask me some questions and then they let me go. If I did do something wrong, I sure in hell ain't running or I would be a chalk line and a garden plot that my kids to place a flower were I got bullet holes in me.

If you didn't do anything wrong, there is no need to run or resist arrest. Police are not going to randomly grab you and beat the crap out of you. You had to do something to provoke them.

I seen police white people up a few times and it is hilarious. Drunk, resisting arrest, kicking and clawing at the police. Then you see more cops join the tussle until they subdue him.

Do you ever watch COPS?

Never, huh?

[AerchAngel]

Never, huh?

What I don't understand is, why run? What are you afraid of? Seriously? It's just basic common sense. No way in my mind I will run from the cops, I can't even fathom to think anything else. I run, I get tazed or shot, that is the first human instinct that comes to mind. Run, you just compound the issue.

Seriously people are defending a person running.

[thethe]

What I don't understand is, why run? What are you afraid of? Seriously? It's just basic common sense. No way in my mind I will run from the cops, I can't even fathom to think anything else. I run, I get tazed or shot, that is the first human instinct that comes to mind. Run, you just compound the issue.

Seriously people are defending a person running.

I would hope people are separating this from what took place afterwards. But at the same time those people should acknowledge that without running hte violence doesn't happen.

[Garmel]

I noticed that some of the conservative rags are saying that Gray had spinal surgery a week before the arrest. An interesting twist if true.

[Julio3000]

What I don't understand is, why run? What are you afraid of? Seriously? It's just basic common sense. No way in my mind I will run from the cops, I can't even fathom to think anything else. I run, I get tazed or shot, that is the first human instinct that comes to mind. Run, you just compound the issue.

Seriously people are defending a person running.

I don't have to "get it" or defend it. I just kinda think it's irrelevant. One can make a poor decision that contributes to a dangerous situation. That's a long way from the agency of a person who decides to—for example—shoot you in the back and then plant evidence to suggest that you were endangering his life.

[goldfly]

If you didn't do anything wrong, there is no need to run or resist arrest. Police are not going to randomly grab you and beat the crap out of you. You had to do something to provoke them.

no, you really don't

you can just ask them why they are doing something and they beat the crap out of someone for just questioning them

seen it happen

that isn't provoking them


all of your examples are irrelevant though

[goldfly]

But at the same time those people should acknowledge that without running hte violence doesn't happen.

if the woman hadn't so much to drink, maybe she wouldn't have been raped

same type of thinking in my eyes

just cause he or anyone else runs, doesn't mean the cop gets to kill the person.

[AerchAngel]

no, you really don't

you can just ask them why they are doing something and they beat the crap out of someone for just questioning them

seen it happen

that isn't provoking them


all of your examples are irrelevant though

So I guess if you do something wrong, you will run when the police stay stop?

Okay.

[AerchAngel]

I don't have to "get it" or defend it. I just kinda think it's irrelevant. One can make a poor decision that contributes to a dangerous situation. That's a long way from the agency of a person who decides to—for example—shoot you in the back and then plant evidence to suggest that you were endangering his life.

And of course that didn't work.

[AerchAngel]

no, you really don't

you can just ask them why they are doing something and they beat the crap out of someone for just questioning them

seen it happen

that isn't provoking them


all of your examples are irrelevant though

whites do it all the time and get the crap beat out of them for mouthing off.

But I don't think they had an arrest warrant though.

Anyway, don't run, this would have been avoided. Don't run this would've been avoided. Don't run this would've been avoided. Don't run this would've been avoided. Don't run this would've been avoided.

Just basic common sense. I wouldn't have ran nor even thinking of running and I would be alive and playing with my kids. Mess with cops, run from cops, this can happen to you.

[Julio3000]

And of course that didn't work.

Yes, because someone had clear video of the entire incident.

[AerchAngel]

Yes, because someone had clear video of the entire incident.

And I did say that the cops that did this should be arrested and charged with 2nd degree murder.

I am still trying to figure out, you are black, the police want to talk to you and you run. Only bad things happen to people when you run, especially if you are black and cops are white.

Where was his common sense? You can't trust the police to not shoot you or rough you up if you don't comply and you are not going to out run them especially when you have ashtma.

So, where was his sanity?

Now because of his decision, we have a lot of lives devastated but no more cocaine being slinged on the streets, because he ran.

[Garmel]

Did Gray try to hurt himself? http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?hpid=z1

[sturg33]

Saw this tonight:

https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11182047_10206626065273308_2067402099562102352_n.j pg?oh=695b9a5ee75b83c7bbe66e1eb62bf170&oe=55CD47FE

My first thought is not "why aren't whites rioting??" (I understand the law of large numbers)... My first thought is "wow - how ****ing sad that our policeman have killed at least 1,111 people in 2014.

[zitothebrave]

My first thought is not "why aren't whites rioting??" (I understand the law of large numbers)... My first thought is "wow - how ****ing sad that our policeman have killed at least 1,111 people in 2014.

At least is the key word. I'm guessing it's higher.

[AerchAngel]

Did Gray try to hurt himself? http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?hpid=z1

I knew there was more to this story. When the truth comes out, this will be interesting and I wonder if our president will do something about it.

Resisting arrest, agressive and intentionally harming yourself? Whoa? And this is another convict that said it.

[goldfly]

So I guess if you do something wrong, you will run when the police stay stop?

Okay.

totally depends on what is happening etc

[Carp]

Cause: Ran
Effect: Dead

Cops should be punished, yes, said that from the beginning, but like cause and effect, if he didn't run, he would be alive and back on the street slinging cocaine.


Two completely separate situations, imo.

If I get killed by a gang banger because I decide to take a stroll on the wrong side of town, did I bring it upon myself? Of course not. It may not have been a wise decision to put myself in a risky situation like that, but the fault still lies completely with the people that assaulted me.

Freddie Gray still had rights, even while being arrested. Putting any sort of blame on the victim is bad form. Regardless of what he had done, the cops have to obey the law as well.

[Carp]

We are talking about bleeding heart liberals who have no common sense in what REAL LIFE is all about. Protect the criminal at all cost mentality. No wonder my people commit so much crime, no one is doing anything about it, the father? Where is he? Like that mother that beat the tar out of her son, BRILLIANT, for looting, but no the Liberals did not like seeing that it went viral, my first question was, WHY ISN'T THE DAD AROUND TO DO IT? Maybe he is looting and rioting as well. The problem is the Democrats and Liberals are doing nothing for the black race. We have so much crap stacked up against us and they want to keep us down. Enlighten people like me with two parent household that is approaching 50 years being married taught us better. They really hate me bringing up the parent card in regards to others, what has Barrack, Jackass and Rev Dullton has done for our race in the 21st century? They cannot bring up a simple thing. Sad, really.

I'm as far from a liberal as one can be. Typically I side with cops in most of these scenarios. It's a dangerous job. But this was a CLEAR abuse of power.

Not that it excuses rioting. Certainly it doesn't. And it won't help improve the problem.

[Carp]

I would hope people are separating this from what took place afterwards. But at the same time those people should acknowledge that without running hte violence doesn't happen.

Your argument is like putting the blame on Janay Rice for instigating Ray Rice into hitting her. Would you say that she "brought it upon herself?"

[goldfly]

whites do it all the time and get the crap beat out of them for mouthing off.

But I don't think they had an arrest warrant though.

Anyway, don't run, this would have been avoided. Don't run this would've been avoided. Don't run this would've been avoided. Don't run this would've been avoided. Don't run this would've been avoided.

Just basic common sense. I wouldn't have ran nor even thinking of running and I would be alive and playing with my kids. Mess with cops, run from cops, this can happen to you.

following your logic

don't want riots? don't kill unarmed/in custody american citizens that have rights

[cajunrevenge]

I am at the point where I am rooting for the rioters to **** **** up. The justice system needs to change and asking nicely isnt working. Lawmakers have turned everyone into criminals. This disproportionately impacts the young and poor. The Cops are like predators praying on the poor, trying to send them to jail for as long as possible. Its time we legalized drugs. It didnt work for alcohol so why would it work with any other drug? Take all that money we spend on jailing drug offenders and tax from the sale of drugs to fund healthcare and rehab services. We can all agree that drugs arent a good choice but freedom is not just being allowed to make pre approved "good" choices. For the game of thrones fans "All I ever wanted was the freedom to make my own mistakes". So many of these issues with police are related to drugs. Its not worth ruining peoples lives. If your a poor person getting a drug conviction makes a bad situation worse. If you get a felony your ****ed for life. What do you do at that point? Might as well be a criminal since your going to be treated like one the rest of your life. If we could stop 90+% of drug use by prohibition I might be okay with it, but the fact of the matter is people are doing drugs no matter how stiff the penalties. At some point we need to look at it from a risk vs reward standpoint. I get the feeling that the people who think the only thing keeping people from doing hardcore drugs are the laws making it illegal are the same people who think you have no morals if you dont believe in a God.

[thethe]

if the woman hadn't so much to drink, maybe she wouldn't have been raped

same type of thinking in my eyes

just cause he or anyone else runs, doesn't mean the cop gets to kill the person.

I've agreed with this. Can't we treat these as two separate decisions though that are both wrong?

[zitothebrave]

I've agreed with this. Can't we treat these as two separate decisions though that are both wrong?

As separate issues yes, BUT people often use lines like "if he didn't run he would be alive" not a damned person actually knows if that's true or not. And forcing a cop to exercise NEVER gives them permission to beat your ass.

[zitothebrave]

Did Gray try to hurt himself? http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?hpid=z1

Or you know, the police were beating his ass against the wall. We already know they went above and beyond, maybe they continued to do so. Maybe they offered this prisoner a plea deal to lie.

Here's the key phrase you need to read

"The van driver stopped three times while transporting Gray to a booking center, the first to put him in leg irons. Batts said the officer driving the van described Gray as “irate.” The search warrant application says Gray “continued to be combative in the police wagon.”

The driver made a second stop, five minutes later, and asked an officer to help check on Gray. At that stop, police have said the van driver found Gray on the floor of the van and put him back on the seat, still without restraints. Police said Gray asked for medical help at that point.

The third stop was to put the other prisoner — a 38-year-old man accused of violating a protective order — into the van. The van was then driven six blocks to the Western District station. Gray was taken from there to a hospital, where he died April 19."

So he was in the van for all of 6 blocks. And that's Baltimore blocks, not New York bumper to bumper 3 light cycle blocks. To me there's no logical way he could have severed his spinal cord in that short of a time period. It's much more plausible that the cops used too much force.

[thethe]

Your argument is like putting the blame on Janay Rice for instigating Ray Rice into hitting her. Would you say that she "brought it upon herself?"

Again, this is not blaming the victim. Its acknowledging the victim did something wrong here.

[sturg33]

Again, this is not blaming the victim. Its acknowledging the victim did something wrong here.

All that does is divert attention away from the bigger issue

[thethe]

All that does is divert attention away from the bigger issue

But would that bigger issue not happen as often? Both need to be addressed but of course disgusting police work is more important to correct.

[Krgrecw]

All that does is divert attention away from the bigger issue



the less crime = the less funding for police to be on the streets.

[AerchAngel]

More info is coming out and those protecting his death you better hope that what is being said is not true.

Death is still on the police and they should be punished for NEGLIGENCE of not properly securing him and him running was not the issue, but him in the van was and like all criminals they will rat out their own.

[AerchAngel]

following your logic

don't want riots? don't kill unarmed/in custody american citizens that have rights

Unfortunately if the reports are true, the only thing the cops did wrong was not properly put him into a seat belt. He basically harmed himself. I still would punish the police for being negligent.

[Hawk]

Maybe they offered this prisoner a plea deal to lie.

Is this a ****ty Law and Order re-run or real life?

The cynicism in this thread ...

[thethe]

Is this a ****ty Law and Order re-run or real life?

The cynicism in this thread ...

I wouldn't say its impossible but you won't ever be able to change the minds of someone who is so deep rooted against the police.

[Hawk]

I wouldn't say its impossible but you won't ever be able to change the minds of someone who is so deep rooted against the police.

I'm not a huge fan of the 5-0 myself, but attempting to ignore or downplay their (crucial) function in keeping our society safe/stable is ludicrous.

[sturg33]

Did anyone not see the statistic above of over 1100 police deaths in 2014 in the US? And you wonder why people might be skeptical?

[thethe]

Did anyone not see the statistic above of over 1100 police deaths in 2014 in the US? And you wonder why people might be skeptical?

Number is way too high but shouldn't some of that blame be at the feat of the criminals as well? Why can't we address both sides?

[Garmel]

Or you know, the police were beating his ass against the wall. We already know they went above and beyond, maybe they continued to do so. Maybe they offered this prisoner a plea deal to lie.

Here's the key phrase you need to read

"The van driver stopped three times while transporting Gray to a booking center, the first to put him in leg irons. Batts said the officer driving the van described Gray as “irate.” The search warrant application says Gray “continued to be combative in the police wagon.”

The driver made a second stop, five minutes later, and asked an officer to help check on Gray. At that stop, police have said the van driver found Gray on the floor of the van and put him back on the seat, still without restraints. Police said Gray asked for medical help at that point.

The third stop was to put the other prisoner — a 38-year-old man accused of violating a protective order — into the van. The van was then driven six blocks to the Western District station. Gray was taken from there to a hospital, where he died April 19."

So he was in the van for all of 6 blocks. And that's Baltimore blocks, not New York bumper to bumper 3 light cycle blocks. To me there's no logical way he could have severed his spinal cord in that short of a time period. It's much more plausible that the cops used too much force.

You didn't learn a thing from the Ferguson situation, did you? You know, how about waiting to see what really happened after all of the facts have come out? Just like Ferguson, you and the others are automatically assuming the cops are wrong. The cops are automatically guilty in your world. We don't know the full story yet.

[Garmel]

Is this a ****ty Law and Order re-run or real life?

The cynicism in this thread ...

Remember the Ferguson thread? He's starting the same conspiracy theories here as he did there.

[Hawk]

Did anyone not see the statistic above of over 1100 police deaths in 2014 in the US? And you wonder why people might be skeptical?

First of all, before trumpeting that statistic as some invaluable, stop-in-your-tracks piece of news: how about a classification break down?

- How many were armed?
- How many put others at risk?
- How many were on the run?

How would you have stopped this guy? http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/11/26/lewisville-police-shoot-kill-suspect-after-car-chase/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Or this guy? http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/03/27/webster-police-shoot-kill-man-during-chase/

Better yet, what's your solution? Are you going to try and strip all of the guns out of circulation so we can be like the United Kingdom (less than 1K on the streets, supposedly)? Are you going to give LEOs less authority?

Or are you just going to continue to be one of the people that bitches and moans about the 'militarization' of law enforcement while meanwhile benefiting in every possible way from the protections it provides?

It's like there's this refusal on your part to actually to see the other end of the spectrum you tacitly advocate.

Willing suspension of disbelief.

Believe me, I get your idealism and I love it, but it's just not applicable here and it never will be.

[thethe]

Remember the Ferguson thread? He's starting the same conspiracy theories here as he did there.

Oh those magical curved bullets. Those were good times.

[sturg33]

First of all, before trumpeting that statistic as some invaluable, stop-in-your-tracks piece of news: how about a classification break down?

- How many were armed?
- How many put others at risk?
- How many were on the run?

How would you have stopped this guy? http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/11/26/lewisville-police-shoot-kill-suspect-after-car-chase/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Or this guy? http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/03/27/webster-police-shoot-kill-man-during-chase/

Better yet, what's your solution? Are you going to try and strip all of the guns out of circulation so we can be like the United Kingdom (less than 1K on the streets, supposedly)? Are you going to give LEOs less authority?

Or are you just going to continue to be one of the people that bitches and moans about the 'militarization' of law enforcement while meanwhile benefiting in every possible way from the protections it provides?

It's like there's this refusal on your part to actually to see the other end of the spectrum you tacitly advocate.

Willing suspension of disbelief.

Believe me, I get your idealism and I love it, but it's just not applicable here and it never will be.

first thing I'd do is to not make so many things crimes - especially in the land of the free

[Garmel]

Oh those magical curved bullets. Those were good times.

Yeah, it was pretty entertaining.

[Carp]

But would that bigger issue not happen as often? Both need to be addressed but of course disgusting police work is more important to correct.

Not really. Criminals and gonna do crime. We should expect that. But we should expect more from the police.

[Julio3000]

Not really. Criminals and gonna do crime We should expect that. But we should expect more from the police.

Yeah, this. That's really the essence of it.

Cops have a stressful, difficult job and are often underpaid and overworked. They deserve better from their employers (us) but they aren't immune from scrutiny and the same laws that they're sworn to uphold.

[acesfull86]

Baltimore's black mayor said the city is being destroyed by "thugs?" Didn't she get the memo that white, PC obsessed liberals declared that word a racial slur?

[jpx7]

Baltimore's black mayor said the city is being destroyed by "thugs?" Didn't she get the memo that white, PC obsessed liberals declared that word a racial slur?

Mock all you want, but—more often than not—"thug" is coded language. Context is important.

[Hawk]

Baltimore's black mayor said the city is being destroyed by "thugs?" Didn't she get the memo that white, PC obsessed liberals declared that word a racial slur?

Obama dropped the same language. Apparently "criminal" is too harsh of a characterization.

[Krgrecw]

Mock all you want, but—more often than not—"thug" is coded language. Context is important.



And what's the problem? was she wrong?

[jpx7]

Obama dropped the same language. Apparently "criminal" is too harsh of a characterization.

Since voting for him in 2008, I've never been excessively happy with Barack Obama. His use of that term is a point of contention.

[jpx7]

And what's the problem? was she wrong?

I wouldn't expect a self-described "actual racist" to understand the nuances of coded language.

[jpx7]

Apparently "criminal" is too harsh of a characterization.

What's for goose be good for gander—and yet the police committing criminal violations don't like the "criminal" characterization any more than the murdered or protesting citizens.

[bravesnumberone]

I think there's a big difference between saying "thug-like behavior" and branding everyone as "thugs" in one swoop. Yea if you steal liquor bottles and burn someone's business who did nothing wrong, you're a piece of crap. But just throwing out "thugs" seems like a convenient way to ignore the bigger problems and issues at hand here.

[Hawk]

What's for goose be good for gander—and yet the police committing criminal violations don't like the "criminal" characterization any more than the murdered or protesting citizens.

This is all too true. The notion that police are above the laws they are tasked to uphold is all too often accepted as a necessary evil when it should be something we actively seek to eradicate.

I think this nationwide push to require officers to wear body cams is a step in the right direction.

[Carp]

I've agreed with this. Can't we treat these as two separate decisions though that are both wrong?

I don't think anyone has said otherwise. Of course the guy was wrong to run. But the point is, him running should have nothing to do with whether or not he is alive or not. So the fact that he ran is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Krgrecw]

I wouldn't expect a self-described "actual racist" to understand the nuances of coded language.


Obama didn't backtrack from his comments from calling these people thugs.

The people that rioted and looted are 'thugs' You can say that I am implying a different word than thug but obamas doing it too.

[Carp]

Again, this is not blaming the victim. Its acknowledging the victim did something wrong here.

Saying things like he "brought it upon himself" is definitely placing blame on the victim.

[jpx7]

I'm like an alcoholic extolling the virtues of drinking.

So. Many. Virtues.

[cajunrevenge]

This is all too true. The notion that police are above the laws they are tasked to uphold is all too often accepted as a necessary evil when it should be something we actively seek to eradicate.

I think this nationwide push to require officers to wear body cams is a step in the right direction.

The police unions fighting against body cameras tells us all we need to know about how corrupt they are. Its near impossible to hold police accountable without video evidence so they fight it. This is why I say that the idea of good cops is a fallacy, the good ones willingly turn a blind eye to the bad cops makes them part of the problem. I think the FBI should be sending people undercover into police stations just like they would any other criminal organization. If they are innocent they have nothing to hide right? Or does that only apply to non-cops? And if any arrests need to be made of Cops make sure and raid their house with a SWAT team at 3 am and shoot anything that moves like they do to people.



They should make a video game of whats its really like to be a cop. Like shooting someone, then checking to make sure theres no surveillance cameras before lying in the police report to justify the shooting. Getting a dog to fake alert so you can search a car, then if you dont find anything you have the option to plant drugs. You get bonus points for arresting people trying to film you too.

[thethe]

I don't think anyone has said otherwise. Of course the guy was wrong to run. But the point is, him running should have nothing to do with whether or not he is alive or not. So the fact that he ran is irrelevant to the discussion.

Its very relevant to the discussion because the less often police are put in precarious spots the less often they will have a chanc eto show how stupid many of them are.

[AerchAngel]

Screw this thread, the mother that popped her kid upside the head is the real hero. My mom was like, yep, I would have done the same thing. This is the reason why the school wants her to return to instill discipline into kids as they are fed up with it. Kids nowadays have no respect for any authority, mouth off to both teachers and parents in front of principal and if they expel them, the board will just reinstate them. What is more alarming that more than 50% of the rioters were teenagers? Kids that should be in school. Where are the other parents?

[thethe]

Screw this thread, the mother that popped her kid upside the head is the real hero. My mom was like, yep, I would have done the same thing. This is the reason why the school wants her to return to instill discipline into kids as they are fed up with it. Kids nowadays have no respect for any authority, mouth off to both teachers and parents in front of principal and if they expel them, the board will just reinstate them. What is more alarming that more than 50% of the rioters were teenagers? Kids that should be in school. Where are the other parents?

The recurring cycle of poverty and crime is continued by poor decisions. Take some ownership of your own screw ups and better your lives.

[thethe]

Saying things like he "brought it upon himself" is definitely placing blame on the victim.

And completely ignoring the victim did something wrong doesn't solve this problem either.

[gilesfan]

Eh. Sorry, I don't think non-violent offenders should be in jail. legalize and tax it.

Legalizing heroin sounds like a fantastic idea.

[sturg33]

Legalizing heroin sounds like a fantastic idea.

Agreed

[gilesfan]

John Angelos (Orioles COO):

Yes, he's an advocate for Baltimore. What do you expect him to say?

[gilesfan]

friend who is a lawyer wrote this recently:

"Of all the police-related killings of citizens recently, only ‪#‎MichaelBrown‬'s falls within the purview of a justified action, in that the allegations are and were that the officer met force with force. Whether you believe this to be true is a completely different story, and I've written for The 11th Hour on how affirmative defenses should be raised in public trials, not in backroom grand jury proceedings, so the public can evaluate the candor of the accused.
Make no mistake: ‪#‎FreddieGray‬, ‪#‎EricGarner‬, ‪#‎WalterScott‬, and others had the right to have a judge and jury determine their guilt and their sentences. Regardless of their transgressions, past, present, or ongoing, none of them committed any offense for which the state had the authority to take their lives. So, while conservative pundits go on their tirades defaming the dead, remember they died for probationary offenses, not for capital offenses."

We do not have the facts on Freddie Gray so I wouldn't include him.

Putting an officers life in jeopardy is a capital offense.

[sturg33]

We do not have the facts on Freddie Gray so I wouldn't include him.

Putting an officers life in jeopardy is a capital offense.

I just heard on CNBC in the background, that that it is being classified as a murder, and that the officers didn't have cause to arrest Gray, and that Gray requested medical help twice.

Doesn't sound good

[zitothebrave]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-man-who-filmed-freddie-gray-video-has-been-arrested-at-gunpoint-10217973.html

[gilesfan]

What was he arrested for?

[Hawk]

Agreed

Brilliant.

[sturg33]

Brilliant.

Agreed. Freedom is pretty brilliant

[Hawk]

They should make a video game of whats its really like to be a cop. Like shooting someone, then checking to make sure theres no surveillance cameras before lying in the police report to justify the shooting. Getting a dog to fake alert so you can search a car, then if you dont find anything you have the option to plant drugs. You get bonus points for arresting people trying to film you too.

I'd play the **** out of that game.

[Hawk]

Agreed. Freedom is pretty brilliant

Says the American.

[zitothebrave]

What was he arrested for?

From another source

"Moore was later released without charges, while two others who were in a car with him remained in custody."

So nothing is my assumption. Probably intimidation. Seemingly they wanted to bring him in for questioning and posted wanted bulletins online, but he already submitted his video.

[AerchAngel]

I just heard on CNBC in the background, that that it is being classified as a murder, and that the officers didn't have cause to arrest Gray, and that Gray requested medical help twice.

Doesn't sound good


I think the po po will be taking it up the pooper shooter soon. This is not looking pretty for them and if they did not have probable cause or read rights (dead man do not tell tales) some are going to go away.

If they did not arrest him or gave him his Miranda rights, no punishment is severe enough for the cops, that is straight up bullying to point of killing. We do not need rogue cops on the street.

[zitothebrave]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=1

[goldfly]

Yes, he's an advocate for Baltimore. What do you expect him to say?

Stick up for the system that has made him a **** ton of money instead of being truthful

[goldfly]

Baltimore's black mayor said the city is being destroyed by "thugs?" Didn't she get the memo that white, PC obsessed liberals declared that word a racial slur?


And what's the problem? was she wrong?


Obama didn't backtrack from his comments from calling these people thugs.

The people that rioted and looted are 'thugs' You can say that I am implying a different word than thug but obamas doing it too.
If thug isn't code language, why did he have to say "white thug":

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/geraldo-confronts-baltimore-protester-you-anarchist-you-aint-nothing/

[gilesfan]

Stick up for the system that has made him a **** ton of money instead of being truthful

What's made him a ton of money is having a rich father, by the way. The guy is pushing his political agenda, which is fine, but you should understand why he's saying what he's saying.

[zitothebrave]

What's made him a ton of money is having a rich father, by the way. The guy is pushing his political agenda, which is fine, but you should understand why he's saying what he's saying.

I don't think the majority of the people protesting are Orioles fans or peopel who they make a lot of money off of. Meanwhile I'm sure the cop supporters are.

In the end, he said his agenda, you're right. And I think he deserves his credit for having the balls to do it even if it was a risk to do so. All too often corporations don't take a stand because it's risky, even if they're right. Look at Chik-Fil-A. They took a stand and then when they saw the financials they threw that stand out the window. It's not easy having opinions.

[gilesfan]

I don't think the majority of the people protesting are Orioles fans or peopel who they make a lot of money off of. Meanwhile I'm sure the cop supporters are.

In the end, he said his agenda, you're right. And I think he deserves his credit for having the balls to do it even if it was a risk to do so. All too often corporations don't take a stand because it's risky, even if they're right. Look at Chik-Fil-A. They took a stand and then when they saw the financials they threw that stand out the window. It's not easy having opinions.

Im not sure if you know this, but Baltimore is democratic run....the whole city...mayor, city council, schools, etc. You don't think they attend Orioles games? You don't think him pushing his liberal beliefs is beneficial in a democratic area?

[goldfly]

Im not sure if you know this, but Baltimore is democratic run....the whole city...mayor, city council, schools, etc. You don't think they attend Orioles games? You don't think him pushing his liberal beliefs is beneficial in a democratic area?

he is standing up for people that don't go to ball games

unless you think poor blacks are going to go "hey, lets go to O's games now" after this

your angle doesn't make sense to me

[goldfly]

What's made him a ton of money is having a rich father, by the way. The guy is pushing his political agenda, which is fine, but you should understand why he's saying what he's saying.

same system made him a **** ton of money

doesn't matter how it got to his pockets

[sturg33]

I laughed. Link (http://www.theisraelidaily.com/middle-eastern-states-debate-whether-to-intervene-in-baltimore/)


As riots in Baltimore continue to spiral out of control, several Middle Eastern leaders have publicly considered sending forces to help maintain some sense of order and stop the chaos from spilling over into neighboring states.

“We aren’t the world’s police, and we can’t be expected to intervene in such an unstable region every time the people rise up against their government,” explained Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi. “At the same time, we have legitimate interests in ensuring Maryland doesn’t become a failed state given its proximity to Washington.”

While the Iraqi leader said he was against putting boots on the ground in Baltimore, he would not rule out airstrikes to help strengthen the increasingly-tenuous hold of the American regime. The Libyan Prime Minister, Abdullah al-Thani, said that Arab states must take action to make sure the unrest does not spread to the American capital just 30 miles away. However, Afghan President Ashraf Ghani was adamant that his military would not be pulled into the conflict in Baltimore.

“While we view the events in Baltimore with great concern, we’ve got our own issues to deal with and cannot afford to be nation-building overseas,” Ghani insisted. “Besides, even if our intention is just to put down the uprising in Baltimore, we could end up getting sucked into their civil war and still have our troops propping up the government 15 years from now.”

President Obama would not comment on reports that Iranian forces were seen fighting alongside police near Camden Yards, and Egyptian President al-Sisi has expressed “deep concerns” at the brutal crackdown on citizens and a possible military coup. “Such actions are simply unacceptable,” said the Egyptian President.

In related news, the Israeli Prime Minister expressed his support for the American government and offered to send settlers to assist in occupying territory in Baltimore.

[AerchAngel]

Three of the most responsible for the crime are black police officers.......the ones that failed to give him any medical aid. The white officers were the ones that cuffed him (bike cops) and that is all.

Oh this is going to be good!!!!!!

[goldfly]

Three of the most responsible for the crime are black police officers.......the ones that failed to give him any medical aid. The white officers were the ones that cuffed him (bike cops) and that is all.

Oh this is going to be good!!!!!!


nwa covered this a long time ago

But don't let it be a black and a white one
Cause they'll slam ya down to the street top
Black police showing out for the white cop


it's a system problem

[Krgrecw]

Three of the most responsible for the crime are black police officers.......the ones that failed to give him any medical aid. The white officers were the ones that cuffed him (bike cops) and that is all.

Oh this is going to be good!!!!!!



It's not going to be good if the DA can't get a guilty verdict. That was pretty stupid of her to shoot for charges that high

[zitothebrave]

Three of the most responsible for the crime are black police officers.......the ones that failed to give him any medical aid. The white officers were the ones that cuffed him (bike cops) and that is all.

Oh this is going to be good!!!!!!

Who cares if they're black or white. They're cops. They're part of the system. you think black cops are any different? If anything they're worse because they need to "prove" themselves.

[zitothebrave]

It's not going to be good if the DA can't get a guilty verdict. That was pretty stupid of her to shoot for charges that high

It's never stupid to charge for as much as possible. If you don't charge for the moon, you're less likely to get a ocnviction.

[weso1]

It's never stupid to charge for as much as possible. If you don't charge for the moon, you're less likely to get a ocnviction.

It's unethical. I think the murder 2 charge is quite a reach.

[zitothebrave]

It's unethical. I think the murder 2 charge is quite a reach.

Its pretty much how it's done. unethical or not it's more or less standard practice.

[weso1]

It's even more unethical to do it for political reasons though. Pretty obvious that she's only doing it to gain favor in the community and/or to help calm the rioters.

I also think the assault charge is a reach. I can see involuntary manslaughter as the max charge. Unless there is something we don't know about one of the stops that was made like if they threw him against the van wall, but the charges obviously don't reflect something like that. If it's true that Gray did it to himself then misconduct in office and false imprisonment are the only charges I can see sticking.

[goldfly]

It's unethical.

charging cops who kill unarmed and in custody americans that are due rights is the opposite of "unethical"

[weso1]

charging cops who kill unarmed and in custody americans that are due rights is the opposite of "unethical"

Overcharging them is. Overcharging anyone is unethical.

[goldfly]

Overcharging them is. Overcharging anyone is unethical.

well, i agree with the 2nd part

when they (the system, da, cops etc) stop doing it to the general public, i can't get upset when the tables are turned

but i am not sure if they are being overcharged right now

[weso1]

well, i agree with the 2nd part

when they (the system, da, cops etc) stop doing it to the general public, i can't get upset when the tables are turned

but i am not sure if they are being overcharged right now

Technically if you agree with the 2nd part then by rule you have to agree with the 1st part.

[Krgrecw]

It's even more unethical to do it for political reasons though. Pretty obvious that she's only doing it to gain favor in the community and/or to help calm the rioters.

I also think the assault charge is a reach. I can see involuntary manslaughter as the max charge. Unless there is something we don't know about one of the stops that was made like if they threw him against the van wall, but the charges obviously don't reflect something like that. If it's true that Gray did it to himself then misconduct in office and false imprisonment are the only charges I can see sticking.



There's gonna be big riots if the Cops get a lesser charge or get off entirely. Stupid to go for a charge that big.

[weso1]

well, i agree with the 2nd part

when they (the system, da, cops etc) stop doing it to the general public, i can't get upset when the tables are turned

but i am not sure if they are being overcharged right now

What would you charge if it is true that Gray suffered the catastrophic injury because he slammed his head into the back of the van, hitting his head on a bolt?

[weso1]

To me I think the driver of the van is the only one who could be in trouble here for anything major. And I could see the potential for involuntary manslaughter there. 2nd degree murder is a reach though. The others I think are all over charged.

[Krgrecw]

If he had spinal surgery a few weeks ago, any decent defense lawyer can bring up that the guy shouldn't had been outside running around and if he was banging his head against the inside of the van, I could see how it would be a hung jury

[goldfly]

Technically if you agree with the 2nd part then by rule you have to agree with the 1st part.

i take the 1st statement as saying they are being overcharged

i don't think that or haven't seen evidence yet of that

thus i don't have to agree with that

[goldfly]

What would you charge if it is true that Gray suffered the catastrophic injury because he slammed his head into the back of the van, hitting his head on a bolt?

not sure

don't really care to go down the what if game of each and every scenario where we blame everyone except the cops and their actions

[AerchAngel]

Who cares if they're black or white. They're cops. They're part of the system. you think black cops are any different? If anything they're worse because they need to "prove" themselves.

The White/MNBC media can't paint a picture of white cops killing a black felon/criminal. It is not good for their business. Faux on the other hand can have a field day with this.

[AerchAngel]

It's unethical. I think the murder 2 charge is quite a reach.

Takes Double Jeopardy out of the equation. You aim high and try to get pleas and if you don't you go for lesser chargers later.

Black cops doing it to their own, MNBC/Liberal Whites nightmare.

[AerchAngel]

I find it funny since it was black police officers that were the main culprits the liberals on this board are trying to protect them on the charges, but if it were whites only, they would want to burn them at the stake.

Wow

[AerchAngel]

Is anyone going to say anything about the corrupt black cops that cause this murder?

Anyone?

Bueller?

Anyone?

Black cops did this, why isn't you all saying police are corrupt and bad and target blacks?

I know, the cops were black, there is no story. Just like the media, now they are hush hush about it. Rev Dullton and Rev Jackass are quiet, the president, well he doesn't care about blacks unless it makes him look good.

Typical crap from the Liberal Media.

[AerchAngel]

Since it was black on black crime, this thread will die. Which reinforces what I always thought about whites and control/slavery/puppet masters.

[Krgrecw]

Since it was black on black crime, this thread will die. Which reinforces what I always thought about whites and control/slavery/puppet masters.



Have they also mentioned how the mayor and the chief of police are also black? Baltimore isn't a little town in the south, it's a minority city run by minorities. This wasn't 'race' related at all.

[AerchAngel]

Have they also mentioned how the mayor and the chief of police are also black? Baltimore isn't a little town in the south, it's a minority city run by minorities. This wasn't 'race' related at all.

This will die, the liberal media have nothing to shake their fists at to keep the black man down and their voting block. You sure in heck can't bring up abortion or same sex marriages to blacks, they will laugh at you and say really bad things. Then if you bring Muslims into it, oh boy. The buttons that push Reps are blacks and Muslims, but do not dare say blacks are corrupt/felons or Muslims are just as bad as Christians. The White Democraps need the blacks vote so now they are at a dilemma of should we say anything or not, I am guessing not, they need to keep their slave mentality over blacks rolling.

[AerchAngel]

Boy the white Democrats on the other board hate my guts like no other, wow. They said I should know my role as a black and shut up.

F*CK THEM!!!

[zitothebrave]

Since it was black on black crime, this thread will die. Which reinforces what I always thought about whites and control/slavery/puppet masters.

Since this is a cop on civilian crime, I have no intention of letting it die. Institutional racism is there whether the hand is black or white that's beating you.

[AerchAngel]

Since this is a cop on civilian crime, I have no intention of letting it die. Institutional racism is there whether the hand is black or white that's beating you.

But if it were a white cop, you would be all of this and then some.

Face it, you whites want to control blacks in any way you can and the only way you can is through media and feeding us lies and the fake maternal/paternal crap of watching over us. I have not seen Obamination yet lift a finger to stop black on black crime or us slinging drugs, or the terrible graduation rate, or anything to curb the stereotypes we live. How can we progress as a race when our own black president only do something when it would benefits him? He is pathetic, Democrats are pathetic, MSNBC is pathetic. I don't watch Faux news so I don't know if they are pathetic or not, because MSNBC is mainstream and my channels are limited to first tier Direct TV, but I don't much TV if any. MSNBC is still trying to figure out how to blame the white Republicans for this fiasco and can't.

You don't get it. Enlightened blacks do. Hit me up when I need to explain it to you, my brother and surprisingly my Democrat (not liberal) father got it and we talked about this when we found out the black cops did it and the first question I asked, why hasn't the media blasted them? They would have if they were white.

[zitothebrave]

I'm not gonna read your post of regurgitating bull****.

Sorry you think I have an agenda I don't. Cops who kill should not be cops.

[Carp]

Its very relevant to the discussion because the less often police are put in precarious spots the less often they will have a chanc eto show how stupid many of them are.

And the entire point is that police shouldn't be acting that way, regardless of what the suspect has done. Again criminals are going to commit crimes, there is no getting around that. But police take an oath to uphold the law. We should expect more from them.

[thethe]

I'm not gonna read your post of regurgitating bull****.

Sorry you think I have an agenda I don't. Cops who kill should not be cops.

It's a shame so many criminals make officers job u necessarily difficult.

[thethe]

And the entire point is that police shouldn't be acting that way, regardless of what the suspect has done. Again criminals are going to commit crimes, there is no getting around that. But police take an oath to uphold the law. We should expect more from them.

We should expect them to control situations and keep thenpeace. However, there will always be people that are criminals and push the limits to where bad decisions Wil be made. The fact that the liberal media won't even touch the victims history and actions on that day is sad. These are both issues that need to be addressed.

Less crime equals less incidents which leads to a more stable civilized sociiety. This will also change stwriotypes and reactions to other situatuons. Steriotypes exist for reasons. As unfortunate as it is they don't just came out of thin air.

[zitothebrave]

It's a shame so many criminals make officers job u necessarily difficult.

No excuse to murder someone. Stop making excuses.

[thethe]

No excuse to murder someone. Stop making excuses.

Was this guy murdered by the cops? I don't think we know yet.

[zitothebrave]

Was this guy murdered by the cops? I don't think we know yet.

The DA says they did. A man was killed because of cops. who then are intimidating witnesses. Cause they're the real thugs.

[thethe]

The DA says they did. A man was killed because of cops. who then are intimidating witnesses. Cause they're the real thugs.

Isn't that the DA job?
I'm just not sure we know yet. I haven't come to a conclusion yet. I made the mistakes several times with brown.