MINORS FINAL 5/3: What About Lipka?

[rico43]

What with all the attention the Braves' new acquisitions are getting in this space, I've got to say that the brightest light so far this season has been former No. 1 pick Matt Lipka.
Turning 23 this past week and finally enjoying some good health, he has been a force to reckon with in Mississippi. All grown up and filled out at 6-1, 200, he is among the top five hitters in the league and has on more than one occasion turned in a gold star defensive play (albeit mostly in leflt field).
Hitting .382 going into Sunday's game, Lipka has an OBP of .427 in his first 21 games (26 hits, five walks). He has an 11-game hitting streak going, 15 in his last 16.
He's currently on an 8-for-19 tear and has moments like a bunt double on his resume.
After a rookie league all-star showing in 2010, his career has been nothing but disappointing. His injuries include a slow-healing hand injury and surgery in 2014, a hamstring injury (a total tear) that was deemed career threatening. He also had to transition from infield to outfield. But his potential as a No. 1 says what we're seeing this year is the real deal.



SUNDAY’S GAMES

ALL TIMES EDT
CLASS AAA

Gwinnett 8, Toledo 1

SP: W. Perez 4 IP, 6 H, 0 ER(1R), 2 BB, 5 K. (1.33)
WP: G. Smith (1-1) 4 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 2 K.
Peraza 4-4, 2 R, 3 RBI, SB (.301); A. Garcia 3-4, 2B, R, 2 RBI (.372); Kleinknecht 2-4, 2 R, HR (1st), RBI.

CLASS AA

Montgomery 7, Mississippi 2

LP: Weber (0-1) 4 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 6 K.
Loman 1-4, HR (3rd), RBI, HBP; M. Smith 3-5 (.324); Castro 2-5 (.373); Lipka 0-4 (.361; batting 9th!)

ADVANCED CLASS A

Carolina 13, Frederick 3

11 runs in 7th-8th innings.
SP: Gil 5 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 3 BB, 3 K.
WP: Marksberry (1-0) 2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 0 K.
Robertshaw (Save, 1) 2 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 3 K.
Schrader 4-5, 2B, 2 R (.360); Godfrey 4-5, 2B, 2 R; D. Peterson 2-4, 3 R, 2 RBI; Meneses 2-4, R, 4 RBI; Lien 1-4, HR (1st), 3 RBI.

CLASS A

Rome 6, Kannapolis 5

WP: Barker (2-2) 5 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 4 K.
Salazar 3 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K.
Kinman (Save, 2) 0.2 IP, 1 BB, 1 K.
Curcio 3-5, 2 3B, 2 R, 2 RBI (.369); Albies 2-5, 2 R, SB (.278); Edgerton 1-5, R, 2 RBI.

[Garmel]

The way Lipka is playing he might get here and play CF before Mallex Smith does.

[dak]

"Bill" Perez w/ an odd line today at GWI. 8 baserunners in just 4 IP, but no ER. 79 pitches.

[thethe]

Peraza and Garcia are a wrecking crew today and basically most of hte season.

I think Peraza can steal 50+ bases in a season right now at hte major league level. Going to be fun to have a guy like that who also can get on base.

[Garmel]

Peraza and Garcia are a wrecking crew today and basically most of hte season.

I think Peraza can steal 50+ bases in a season right now at hte major league level. Going to be fun to have a guy like that who also can get on base.

If Lipka and Mallex Smith continue to develop can you imagine the steals we'll have?

[Braves1976]

Lipka has had a great start and that is good to see. It gives us more CF options including Smith and Perez namely. Smith seems finally better from his foot injury, he missed last night's game again but is back in there today. Mallex Smith has three hits so far today.

That said, Rio Ruiz continues to struggle and is now hitting under .200 on the year. Hopefully he gets going soon.

[thethe]

If Lipka and Mallex Smith continue to develop can you imagine the steals we'll have?

C: Bethancourt
1B: Freeman
2B: Peraza
3B: Peterson
SS: Simmons
RF: Markakis
CF: Maybin/Lipka
LF: Smith/Lipka

For some reason I just love that positional talent. Just great athletes all over place.

[chop2chip]

C: Bethancourt
1B: Freeman
2B: Peraza
3B: Peterson
SS: Simmons
RF: Markakis
CF: Maybin/Lipka
LF: Smith/Lipka

For some reason I just love that positional talent. Just great athletes all over place.

Not a big fan of Jace as a starting 3B. He's never going to hit enough to play a power position.

[thethe]

Not a big fan of Jace as a starting 3B. He's never going to hit enough to play a power position.

As long as we have guys in the lineup that are getting on base I don't care what position they play. Just keep on having tough AB's. Until better hitters emerge that are available or in the system then Peterson is just the smart option.

[Braves1976]

Dustin Peterson continues to do well, he was hitless yesterday but walked twice in 4 AB's. Today he is 1-3 with 2 RBI's and another walk. I should also note that Jacob Schrader is having a big day for Carolina, 4-4 with a double, Schrader is hitting .367 on the season now. They're both doing very well so far.

Peterson with another hit today, so he's been on base three times so far including two hits and a walk

[thethe]

Dustin Peterson continues to do well, he was hitless yesterday but walked twice in 4 AB's. Today he is 1-3 with 2 RBI's and another walk. I should also note that Jacob Schrader is having a big day for Carolina, 4-4 with a double, Schrader is hitting .367 on the season now. They're both doing very well so far.

Dustin Peterson is the type of talent that could have a breakout which springboards him to being a top prospect. Great sign early on. Upton trade could end up being very prosperous for hte organization.

[atl717]

C: Bethancourt
1B: Freeman
2B: Peraza
3B: Peterson
SS: Simmons
RF: Markakis
CF: Maybin/Lipka
LF: Smith/Lipka

For some reason I just love that positional talent. Just great athletes all over place.

Dude that team sucks. I dont know why you love non impact bats.

[Braves1976]

Not a big fan of Jace as a starting 3B. He's never going to hit enough to play a power position.

I understand that concern and one way to remedy it is use Peterson like Prado/Infante in the past, give him reps in the outfield where he can start there too. This way he plays regularly but not always at third. Plus he could continue to back-up short when Simmons needs an off-day (rare I know). Further, we'd want the platoon partner to be a righty to start mostly vs lefties at third. While that fits for CJ my hope is that he's gone by that time.

[Braves1976]

Dustin Peterson is the type of talent that could have a breakout which springboards him to being a top prospect. Great sign early on. Upton trade could end up being very prosperous for hte organization.

Well, if I were still a betting man I'd bet on it to turn our our best trade of them all in the end. But part of that is I am not as high as y'all on the Gattis trade, among others. Further, I have liked what I've seen from Smith, Peterson and Peterson so far, at least for the most part. So if that continues and if Fried comes back strong then that would be great.

[chop2chip]

I understand that concern and one way to remedy it is use Peterson like Prado/Infante in the past, give him reps in the outfield where he can start there too. This way he plays regularly but not always at third. Plus he could continue to back-up short when Simmons needs an off-day (rare I know). Further, we'd want the platoon partner to be a righty to start mostly vs lefties at third. While that fits for CJ my hope is that he's gone by that time.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of him as a super sub. I think he could be great at that because he should profile as a decent hitter and he looks like the type of player that can be play 7 positions in a pinch. I just don't think it bodes well for us if he's our best option to start anywhere.

[Braves1976]

BTW, if this Adonis Garcia keeps raking he needs to get a shot with us. The knock on him by some is said to be his defense, at least Bowman said so. But from what I've seen he's looked fine outside of a few errors so far. Plus he's played multiple positions too. He is now hitting .377 with Gwinnett and really seems a good hitter so if nothing else should be a good bench or platoon option at multiple positions.

I'd take him off the bench over Gosselin any day.

[thethe]

Peraza on base 5 times today. Damn, that kid is on fire.

[Braves1976]

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of him as a super sub. I think he could be great at that because he should profile as a decent hitter and he looks like the type of player that can be play 7 positions in a pinch. I just don't think it bodes well for us if he's our best option to start anywhere.

Oh, I figured that is what you meant so I understand your position. But at least we know Peterson's defense would be a big upgrade to CJ's at third.

[Braves1976]

Peraza on base 5 times today. Damn, that kid is on fire.

Yep, now hitting over .300 at .301 too. He should have a higher average, he's had some bad calls against him cost him a few hits this month. But after starting slow, mainly the first week, he's been much better since then. He actually looked overmatched early on in AAA, same as Spring Training, but then about a week in he seemed to come alive and stopped pressing. He's been quite good ever since then, at least hitting wise. He's actually made some rookie errors in the field which is unlike him. He already has six errors and some of them he was trying to do too much I think. He needs to clean that up because he's a lot better than he's showed on defense so far.

[Braves1976]

We jinxed Lipka with all the praise it seems, he went 0-4 today. Rio Ruiz finally got a hit to bring his average up to .206, he went 1-4 with a walk today. That is better but we need him to start hitting more and showing some power would be nice too.

[clvclv]

Dude that team sucks. I dont know why you love non impact bats.

As opposed to the team FULL of "impact bats" we had last season that was 14th in the NL in offense at this point?

[chop2chip]

Peraza on base 5 times today. Damn, that kid is on fire.
Would anyone be mad if he was starting at 2B next month?

[chop2chip]

As opposed to the team FULL of "impact bats" we had last season that was 14th in the NL in offense at this point?
Aside from the obvious poking of the giant stats bear, do you actually believe what you are arguing against?

[thethe]

Would anyone be mad if he was starting at 2B next month?

Going into the new stadium already a playoff team would be huge for the franchise moving forward. Let Peraza get his feet wet on the big league club this year in a month or two. Then we could have him fully ready at the start of next year.

[MadduxFanII]

When's the super two deadline? Early June, right? I'd love to see Peraza up this year, provided he plays well, but none of these kids should be up for good until after the super two cut-off.

[thethe]

What information do we have on Keith Curcio? 6th round pick last year hit for 20 AB's at Rome last year and is now OPSing more than 900 this season. He'll be 22 all year and could finish the year potentially in Carolina based on his age.

Excellent BB/K ratios and is showing extra base power without the homers but those might come a bit more as he acclimates himself.

Possibly a prospect?

[thethe]

6th Round (193): Keith Curcio, CF @KeithCurcio — Curcio is an athletic outfielder with good speed. While he doesn’t have any stand-out tools, he’s said to be a grinder who plays above his natural abilities. He excelled last summer in the wooden bat collegiate Northwoods League, placing second in batting average (.367) and walking more than he struck out. The ability he showed there to hit with a wood bat is likely what gave the Braves confidence to draft him this high. He was unranked on any of the prospect outlets draft boards, so this could be a bit of an overdraft at this position.

__________________________________________________ __

This is from Chop County.

[rico43]

What information do we have on Keith Curcio? 6th round pick last year hit for 20 AB's at Rome last year and is now OPSing more than 900 this season. He'll be 22 all year and could finish the year potentially in Carolina based on his age.

Excellent BB/K ratios and is showing extra base power without the homers but those might come a bit more as he acclimates himself.

Possibly a prospect?

Fractured lower leg last year when he hit the outfield wall, I believe. He was hitting his stride when hurt, so this is not a fluke hot streak, it would seem.

(This me quoting me from last July)

Curcio, a lefty hitter, was hitting his stride quickly. He began his career at Danville, where he hit a modest .259 with four RBIs in eight games, plus some nice defense, before moving up to Rome. There, he was hitting .316 through seven games before he was injured with a home run and five RBIs. He had a homer and double and three runs scored in the last game before he was hurt.

Nice thing about broken bones, though -- they heal, so the kid should be back on track in time for instructional league/winter ball, if not sooner.

Many thanks to Nick Pierce, Danville radio announcer, for passing this along.

[thethe]

Fractured lower leg last year when he hit the outfield wall, I believe. He was hitting his stride when hurt, so this is not a fluke hot streak, it would seem.

(This me quoting me from last July)

Curcio, a lefty hitter, was hitting his stride quickly. He began his career at Danville, where he hit a modest .259 with four RBIs in eight games, plus some nice defense, before moving up to Rome. There, he was hitting .316 through seven games before he was injured with a home run and five RBIs. He had a homer and double and three runs scored in the last game before he was hurt.

Nice thing about broken bones, though -- they heal, so the kid should be back on track in time for instructional league/winter ball, if not sooner.

Many thanks to Nick Pierce, Danville radio announcer, for passing this along.

Maybe this kid moves quickly because it doesn't seem Rome is much of a challenge to him. I love that he is billed as a plus athlete and yet he is showing excellent plate discipline plus XBH power. Someone to follow for sure over the course of this year.

[smootness]

Ruiz has struggled, but it's still too soon to be concerned. He's 20 in AA. Last year, at the same level Peterson is now but a year younger, he hit much better. I think he'll be ok.

But this is why it was too early to be disappointed in some guys. A couple good games in a row and everything can change.

[50PoundHead]

Ruiz has struggled, but it's still too soon to be concerned. He's 20 in AA. Last year, at the same level Peterson is now but a year younger, he hit much better. I think he'll be ok.

But this is why it was too early to be disappointed in some guys. A couple good games in a row and everything can change.

High A to AA is considered the biggest talent adjustment in the minors and Ruiz is very young for the level. His K/BB looks good right now, but that can be misleading because he may be so intent on putting the ball in play that he's not trying to drive the ball. Big thing is he doesn't appear (and I'll readily admit appearances can be misleading) to be over-matched.

[smootness]

High A to AA is considered the biggest talent adjustment in the minors and Ruiz is very young for the level. His K/BB looks good right now, but that can be misleading because he may be so intent on putting the ball in play that he's not trying to drive the ball. Big thing is he doesn't appear (and I'll readily admit appearances can be misleading) to be over-matched.

Yep, and this is why I'm also very encouraged by what Mallex Smith is doing. This is a huge year for him, and he's doing what he's done at every level - hit and get on base.

I have to believe he will start to fly up prospect boards. So far, he is having a Bourn-like minor league career. Always doubted, always hitting and stealing bases. In fact, so far he's actually hit better than Bourn did at a similar age/level.

[Garmel]

From Bowman's twitter:

"Jose Peraza's last 14 games: .385 (20-for-52 w/ no extra-base hits) .421 OBP, 6/7 SB, 4/7 BB/K"


Damn

[nsacpi]

Didnt have a good spring training. Maybe we can trade him to the yankees.
From Bowman's twitter:

"Jose Peraza's last 14 games: .385 (20-for-52 w/ no extra-base hits) .421 OBP, 6/7 SB, 4/7 BB/K"


Damn

[Braves1976]

Didnt have a good spring training. Maybe we can trade him to the yankees.

Yea, maybe we can trade him to the Yankees for someone like EYJ--a king of Spring Training! :)

[sturg33]

From Bowman's twitter:

"Jose Peraza's last 14 games: .385 (20-for-52 w/ no extra-base hits) .421 OBP, 6/7 SB, 4/7 BB/K"


Damn

Think he's going to be solid... but the lack of power and plate discipline makes it really tough to be a good hitter in the big leagues

[thethe]

Think he's going to be solid... but the lack of power and plate discipline makes it really tough to be a good hitter in the big leagues

Speed guys that make contact and don't strikeout can be safely projected to hit 280 or better IMO. Even with a 5-8% walk rate he will have a big impact on the team offensively. This is a kid that you can realistically project to steal 50+ bases at a high percentage clip.

[nsacpi]

It is true that Peraza's walk rate (typically around 5%) is lower than what you want in a leadoff hitter. But to some extent this can be offset by speed (and the higher BABIP that generates). The low strikeout rate fits in nicely with a speed/high BABIP profile.

[sturg33]

Speed guys that make contact and don't strikeout can be safely projected to hit 280 or better IMO. Even with a 5-8% walk rate he will have a big impact on the team offensively. This is a kid that you can realistically project to steal 50+ bases at a high percentage clip.

Not saying you're wrong... but I can't think of many exaamples other than all-time greats (like Ichiro). Can you name a few?

[thethe]

Not saying you're wrong... but I can't think of many exaamples other than all-time greats (like Ichiro). Can you name a few?

Well I'm not expecting Peraza to be a HOFer. Something close to what Juan Pierre was when he was disruptive with the Marlins. Just a good player. But with Peraza you could potentially get high level defense at a defensive premium position.

[clvclv]

From Bowman's twitter:

"Jose Peraza's last 14 games: .385 (20-for-52 w/ no extra-base hits) .421 OBP, 6/7 SB, 4/7 BB/K"


Damn

But, but, but...weren't there a ton of people ready to crucify me less than a week ago when I suggested we just might see him as our 2B for good if he kept up his current pace for another 2-3 weeks???

:eusa_naughty::eusa_naughty::eusa_naughty::eusa_na ughty:

[50PoundHead]

I still wait on the guy. We're going nowhere with a capital NO this season and unless he has learned all there is to learn at the AAA level, I'd just burnish the product a bit longer.

[Braves1976]

I still wait on the guy. We're going nowhere with a capital NO this season and unless he has learned all there is to learn at the AAA level, I'd just burnish the product a bit longer.

Agreed. Plus he has made 6 errors at second so far this year. I know he's better than that but I want him to work on his defense because he needs to clean it up a bit.

[clvclv]

I still wait on the guy. We're going nowhere with a capital NO this season and unless he has learned all there is to learn at the AAA level, I'd just burnish the product a bit longer.

I don't think they're going to rush him by any stretch, but still stand by my earlier point. IF (and that's a big if) he keeps this up for an extended period, he will be knocking on the door so loudly that Hart & Company will have little choice but to consider giving him the shot they said they were going to give him during camp - particularly since he will have cleared the Super-Two cutoff. They've been pretty consistent in saying that they weren't going to hold anyone back when they forced their way into the rotation or lineup, and (just my opinion) they'll have seen enough at that point to feel comfortable enough to want them to be learning to make adjustments from Roger and Seitzer while facing the highest level of competition possible to see if they are capable of making those adjustments.

Peraza's situation mirrors Folty's in this way (IMO) - Hart mentioned it himself when talking to Chip and Joe during his start when he said (paraphrasing obviously) "he's incorporated the things we gave him to work on coming out of camp pretty successfully, and from the all the reports we've gotten we feel like he's ready for the challenge and will likely benefit from facing the higher level of competition in the long run".

[thethe]

I am all for not burning service time but I think Chop said it best...You need to establish a system of meritocracy. If Peraza finds a way to keep this up for another month he will be in ATL.

[clvclv]

I am all for not burning service time but I think Chop said it best...You need to establish a system of meritocracy. If Peraza finds a way to keep this up for another month he will be in ATL.

This is something that always existed as a part of the old "Braves' Way" - the old guard wasn't going to let decisions about lesser players get in the way of someone they had at a lower level that they really believed in when those younger players demonstrated they were ready for a new challenge, regardless of the player's age or level.

This is something that's pretty important when you're an organization that's trying to build from within consistently when you're (somewhat) financially challenged - show us progress in the areas we want you to focus on, and we'll reward that as soon as we feel like you're ready for a new challenge.

[sturg33]

But, but, but...weren't there a ton of people ready to crucify me less than a week ago when I suggested we just might see him as our 2B for good if he kept up his current pace for another 2-3 weeks???

:eusa_naughty::eusa_naughty::eusa_naughty::eusa_na ughty:

You're quickly rising the ranks of most obnoxious posters.

Nobody crucified you. They simply disagreed with burning service time in a lost year.

But you get really defensive when anyone disagrees with you

[nsacpi]

The Braves don' have consistent record in terms of rapid promotion. Chipper Jones and Freddie Freeman spent almost a full season each in AAA in spite of doing very well there. Others like Heyward, Andruw Jones and Furcal were promoted very rapidly.

I do think the weight of the service time argument is more significant if you aren't competing for anything.

[thethe]

The Braves don' have consistent record in terms of rapid promotion. Chipper Jones and Freddie Freeman spent almost a full season each in AAA in spite of doing very well there. Others like Heyward, Andruw Jones and Furcal were promoted very rapidly.

I do think the weight of the service time argument is more significant if you aren't competing for anything.

Thats a fair point but what if they are trying to contribute next season (which they are) and the front office feels that in order to help compete next year we need to have Peraza at the big leagues for X months this year? Would you agree with promotion in that case?

[thethe]

You're quickly rising the ranks of most obnoxious posters.

Nobody crucified you. They simply disagreed with burning service time in a lost year.

But you get really defensive when anyone disagrees with you

Please tell me I'm still in the upper pantheon.....

[sturg33]

Thats a fair point but what if they are trying to contribute next season (which they are) and the front office feels that in order to help compete next year we need to have Peraza at the big leagues for X months this year? Would you agree with promotion in that case?

Sure.

[sturg33]

Please tell me I'm still in the upper pantheon.....

You're the Floyd Mayweather of obnoxiousness

[nsacpi]

Strikeout rate, walk rate, BABIP and ISO for five minor league players so far this season:

Peraza (age 21 in AAA): 6.5%, 9.3%, .333, .032

Lipka (age 23 in AA): 7.8%, 12.9%, .413, .097

Castro (age 22 in AA): 3.4%, 9.0%, .408, .060

Mallex Smith (turns 22 this week in AA): 4.1%, 17.6%, .375, .088

Albies (18 in A): 6.1%, 18.4%, .347, .056

It would be great if one or more of them developed some power and/or moved the walk rate over 10%. Smith and Albies had walk rates over 10% last season. Power and patience of course are qualities that hitters (not all of course) tend to develop as they mature.

[thethe]

I would hope that people aren't expecting these kids to hit homers. Maybe Lipka/Smith could end up having some power 10-15 HR's but these other guys are going to be double hitters at the most with some of those gappers turning into triples.

[nsacpi]

I'm not looking for homers from any of them. But it would be nice to see one or two develop into the type of hitter who gets a lot of doubles.

[nsacpi]

Thats a fair point but what if they are trying to contribute next season (which they are) and the front office feels that in order to help compete next year we need to have Peraza at the big leagues for X months this year? Would you agree with promotion in that case?

It will be interesting to see what happens to payroll next season. I think it goes down and we don't make any significant splashes this off-season. But my view is you want to compete every year. That's what I think should be done. Even with that philosophy though, the benefits of deferring free agency and arbitration a year count a lot with me.

[thethe]

I could see all those develop into doubles hitters. Some (Peraza) will be on the lower end of a 25-45 total in a season. I think Mallex might end up being a high doubles/triples guy.

[smootness]

It will be interesting to see what happens to payroll next season. I think it goes down and we don't make any significant splashes this off-season. But my view is you want to compete every year. That's what I think should be done. Even with that philosophy though, the benefits of deferring free agency and arbitration a year count a lot with me.

I get the argument for holding back until into June, but I don't really understand the argument for holding him back all of this year plus into next year.

As for the power, Mallex Smith's ISO last year was over .120, and Peraza's has been around .100 most of his minor-league career. I think those are both more reliable than this year's sample so far. Obviously they're at a higher level, so it could come down...but there's no reason yet to believe they're going to simply be singles hitters.

Albies is still too young to make any kind of determination about.

But honestly, if Smith gives you .280/.350/.350 or something like that (his minor league history suggests an even higher OBP), that's great. If Peraza gives you .275/.330/.360, that's good enough given his speed and defense.

Ideally, I want all positions to be able to impact the team in every area. But realistically, if I can get great defense from a few spots (SS, 2B, CF, C), speed and on-base skills from a few, and power from a few, I think that's good enough to compete.

[chop2chip]

Think he's going to be solid... but the lack of power and plate discipline makes it really tough to be a good hitter in the big leagues

Maybe not a great hitter in a vacuum, but he can be a great hitter relative to his position.

And besides, we don't need Peraza to be a good hitter. We need him to be a great player. He does a lot of things well outside of slugging % to project as a great player.

[clvclv]

You're quickly rising the ranks of most obnoxious posters.

Nobody crucified you. They simply disagreed with burning service time in a lost year.

But you get really defensive when anyone disagrees with you

Actually that's not the case - it just happens to be certain "special" ones like you who expect everyone to roll over and agree with you rather than posting their disagreements. It is what it is - go back and read the thread closely.

There are certain posters here who "know" what they say they know with all kinds of certainty rather than admitting they're simply fans who have watched a lot of baseball and are passionate about the Braves. It seriously hacks some of them off when someone questions their qualifications. Some of us admit they don't "know" anything with any certainty - but defer to people who are paid to make those decisions because they're infinitely more qualified. There's not much to argue about when you simply state that something's your opinion and you might be wrong.

Which side of that spectrum do you fall on???

[clvclv]

Maybe not a great hitter in a vacuum, but he can be a great hitter relative to his position.

And besides, we don't need Peraza to be a good hitter. We need him to be a great player. He does a lot of things well outside of slugging % to project as a great player.


Doesn't that kinda describe what everyone hopes Andrelton's developing into?

[clvclv]

You're quickly rising the ranks of most obnoxious posters.

Nobody crucified you. They simply disagreed with burning service time in a lost year.

But you get really defensive when anyone disagrees with you


BTW, do you seriously believe anybody gives two *hits where they rank on your personal "most obnoxious posters" list???

[Carp]

Would anyone be mad if he was starting at 2B next month?

I wouldn't be "mad." But I would rather not start his clock on a sub .500 club. I would enjoy seeing him nonetheless.

[Carp]

I don't think they're going to rush him by any stretch, but still stand by my earlier point. IF (and that's a big if) he keeps this up for an extended period, he will be knocking on the door so loudly that Hart & Company will have little choice but to consider giving him the shot they said they were going to give him during camp - particularly since he will have cleared the Super-Two cutoff. They've been pretty consistent in saying that they weren't going to hold anyone back when they forced their way into the rotation or lineup, and (just my opinion) they'll have seen enough at that point to feel comfortable enough to want them to be learning to make adjustments from Roger and Seitzer while facing the highest level of competition possible to see if they are capable of making those adjustments.

Peraza's situation mirrors Folty's in this way (IMO) - Hart mentioned it himself when talking to Chip and Joe during his start when he said (paraphrasing obviously) "he's incorporated the things we gave him to work on coming out of camp pretty successfully, and from the all the reports we've gotten we feel like he's ready for the challenge and will likely benefit from facing the higher level of competition in the long run".

Not exactly. Folty's clock already started last year didn't it?

[clvclv]

Not exactly. Folty's clock already started last year didn't it?

Not exactly - you're right. I mean in the sense that they were able to spend time with Jose during camp like they did Folty, and gave him (as well as Snitker and the Gwinnett coaching staff) specific areas they felt like they'd need to see improvement in before they were willing to call him up. I'd venture a guess that Banuelos is in a similar situation as well. Just my opinion, but I don't think they're concerned about the impact on certain players' clocks as much as they want to feel as comfortable as possible that they're ready for the challenge - not measured by IPs or ABs, rather that they're handling the areas they were asked to "tighten up" - because when they're called up they intended to put them in the rotation or lineup everyday for good.

[mfree80]

Not exactly. Folty's clock already started last year didn't it?

Was his MLB experience last year as a September call-up? If so, then I don't think it would count toward service time. Correct me if I am misunderstanding that.

[sturg33]

Actually that's not the case - it just happens to be certain "special" ones like you who expect everyone to roll over and agree with you rather than posting their disagreements. It is what it is - go back and read the thread closely.

There are certain posters here who "know" what they say they know with all kinds of certainty rather than admitting they're simply fans who have watched a lot of baseball and are passionate about the Braves. It seriously hacks some of them off when someone questions their qualifications. Some of us admit they don't "know" anything with any certainty - but defer to people who are paid to make those decisions because they're infinitely more qualified. There's not much to argue about when you simply state that something's your opinion and you might be wrong.

Which side of that spectrum do you fall on???

Easy there, cowboy. No need to get so defensive

[sturg33]

BTW, do you seriously believe anybody gives two *hits where they rank on your personal "most obnoxious posters" list???

Let me double check list...

Yeah - looks like you do

[Carp]

Was his MLB experience last year as a September call-up? If so, then I don't think it would count toward service time. Correct me if I am misunderstanding that.


Folty came up in mid August for the Astros.

[Carp]

Not exactly - you're right. I mean in the sense that they were able to spend time with Jose during camp like they did Folty, and gave him (as well as Snitker and the Gwinnett coaching staff) specific areas they felt like they'd need to see improvement in before they were willing to call him up. I'd venture a guess that Banuelos is in a similar situation as well. Just my opinion, but I don't think they're concerned about the impact on certain players' clocks as much as they want to feel as comfortable as possible that they're ready for the challenge - not measured by IPs or ABs, rather that they're handling the areas they were asked to "tighten up" - because when they're called up they intended to put them in the rotation or lineup everyday for good.

But still, their situations are different. And every team in baseball pays some concern to arby clocks, especially for the elite prospects. It could make the difference of an entire season in their prime. It's possible the Braves don't care. But I have my doubts. It's just good business sense.

[clvclv]

But still, their situations are different. And every team in baseball pays some concern to arby clocks, especially for the elite prospects. It could make the difference of an entire season in their prime. It's possible the Braves don't care. But I have my doubts. It's just good business sense.

The situations are indeed somewhat different in regards to the alignment of their service clocks. Where I think their situations somewhat mirror each other is that the current front office doesn't seem as concerned with their clocks as we all assumed they would be or we wouldn't have seen Folty yet. As you point out, the Astros started his clock last August, so if they were really big on delaying everyone as long as possible (no arguments at all that it would seem that delays would be higher on many of our lists - I also had said all along that I'd hoped we wouldn't see any of these guys until we had at least cleared their Super-Two cutoffs) that it at least appears they're more interested in instituting more of a meritocracy policy (as thethe suggests).

When trying to take a step back to attempt to find reasons that could make some sense, some of these promotions and/or potential promotions could be as much about clearing space at the upper levels of the system as some of the other guys keep pushing for steps up the ladder as well. It would've seemed to make some sense to promote Williams Perez before Folty given his good work to this point if they wanted to delay Folty's clock. That could conceivably still happen for Folty, Wisler, Banuelos, and Perez - say the other three string together a handful of good starts at Gwinnett and Folty struggles he could always be sent down with another list of things to work on and the hottest one of the others might be called up to take his spot (and get his feet wet).

I think the thing that they're going to struggle with at this point is setting up that merit-based system if they don't stick to it at some point. There have been enough impressive performances by several players at this juncture to (more or less) dictate that they start cutting bait with several players on the big club even if they don't get much of a return (if any). Doing so might ruin some of the platoons that have worked relatively well but given the starts several OFs have gotten off to, isn't it time to get rid of EY even if you don't get anything for him? KJ can platoon with Gomes, and they can call Eury Perez up to see if there's any interest in keeping him as a 4th or 5th OF moving forward. It's probably time to give Maybin the lion's share of the playing time in CF so they can decide whether they're going to want to keep him until the end of his contract (or see if they can get something for him that would likely be better than what they'd get for EY anyway). This would open a spot at Gwinnett for Mallex Smith or Lipka when they decide they want to challenge one of them more, which opens Mallex' or Lipka's spot for Peterson when they want to push him, etc..

The fact that the early appearance that the trades have worked out pretty well in our favor is both a blessing and a curse - we're now seeing several players who are starting to look like they may be worthy of midseason promotions without enough openings to give them all out. In several cases, it may be necessary to push some of these players into sink or swim situations so they can at the very least be in a position to move the ones we're most interested in keeping long-term up when they appear to be ready to take the next step. It's probably time to DFA Gosselin so they can get an extended look at Ciriaco, etc..

Things are starting to get pretty crowded at the upper levels at this point, and Hart & Company may need to start seeing some of these players challenged more because there are likely going to be quite a few tough 40-Man Roster decisions that have to be made by the end of the season - what to do with Minor, Cunningham, Terdoslavich, Elmer Reyes, Toscano, etc..

Assuming the goal is to have most questions answered by Opening Day 2017, they're likely going to want to see Mallex and others at least get some time with the big club next season so they aren't complete question marks when that time comes. If they do invest significant money this offseason (as it appears they will), they'll want to know the best places to spend it.