5/13/15 Braves @ Reds

[Garmel]

Braves
1. Nick Markakis (L) RF
2. Andrelton Simmons (R) SS
3. Freddie Freeman (L) 1B
4. Kelly Johnson (L) LF
5. Alberto Callaspo (S) 3B
6. Jace Peterson (L) 2B
7. Christian Bethancourt (R) C
8. Cameron Maybin (R) CF
9. Eric Stults (L) P

Reds
1. Billy Hamilton (S) CF
2. Zack Cozart (R) SS
3. Joey Votto (L) 1B
4. Todd Frazier (R) 3B
5. Marlon Byrd (R) LF
6. Jay Bruce (L) RF
7. Kristopher Negron (R) 2B
8. Brayan Pena (S) C
9. Raisel Iglesias (R) P

[thethe]

Lets give Stults some breathing room so he can get 7 in the books.

[USMA76]

Lets give Stults some breathing room so he can get 7 in the books.

Not to be cynical but, win or lose, when does this team ever make anything easy?

[Garmel]

Looks like KJ might be seriously hurt. That totally blows.

[Orphan Black]

What happened to KJ?

[USMA76]

Like I said, when is any game an easy one for us? :Wall:

[Braves1976]

Magic Wandy come back to us! Stults go byebye or to bullpen! :)

[USMA76]

Magic Wandy come back to us! Stults go byebye or to bullpen! :)

Yeah, Braves' management really got that one right, didn't they?

[Braves1976]

Yeah, Braves' management really got that one right, didn't they?

I hated dropping Wandy for either Cahill or Stults for multiple reasons including not liking Cahill at all and being a longtime fan of Wandy. Plus Wandy grew up a Braves fan so it was a dream come true crushed for him. To add insult to it Fredi announced that he'd made the team before we released him.

[USMA76]

I hated dropping Wandy for either Cahill or Stults for multiple reasons including not liking Cahill at all and being a longtime fan of Wandy. Plus Wandy grew up a Braves fan so it was a dream come true crushed for him. To add insult to it Fredi announced that he'd made the team before we released him.

So what you're saying was not only was it a poor personnel decision but that we also botched it from the perspective of "people skills."

Just splendid.

[Braves1976]

So what you're saying was not only was it a poor personnel decision but that we also botched it from the perspective of "people skills."

Just splendid.

Yep.

[Garmel]

What happened to KJ?

Oblique strain.

[Julio3000]

Oblique strain.

****.

[USMA76]

...and in other news, we're being no-hit through three innings and have given up a 347 foot home run.

[Braves1976]

Oblique strain.

Is there a rule that Braves clean-up hitters that are any good must get that type of injury? Mac, Gattis and now KJ..

Was Freeman batting clean-up when he had it in early 2013 too? I forget.

[Garmel]

It's time to quit watching this ****.

[Braves1976]

The way Stults gives up homers if he pitched here all year he'd be released.

[USMA76]

The way Stults gives up homers if he pitched here all year he'd be released.

If he pitched anywhere he should be released. The guy is hot garbage.

[Braves1976]

If he pitched anywhere he should be released. The guy is hot garbage.

He may end up released by us if he keeps this up. I sure don't see him ever having any trade value, so that is another reason I'd kept Wandy over Stults. Oh well.

[USMA76]

The only reason I'm watching this game right now is basically the same as "rubbernecking" through an accident zone. That and to see if we can be no-hit by some guy I've never heard of.

[Julio3000]

Thomas David Cunningham III, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

[Julio3000]

The only reason I'm watching this game right now is basically the same as "rubbernecking" through an accident zone. That and to see if we can be no-hit by some guy I've never heard of.

Getting no-hit by Randy Johnson was one thing. Getting no-hit by Rasiel Iglesias? That takes something special.

[Braves1976]

I'm paying more attention to the Gwinnett game via MILB.tv, Man-Ban pitched well again giving up one run in 5 innings. Perez has his 18th steal, most in the league and all of pro ball I think (one more than Hamilton in Majors). Game is tied 1-1 in 6th.

[Braves1976]

How many near hits will be stolen from Peterson? Damn.

[jsebe10]

I'm paying more attention to the Gwinnett game via MILB.tv, Man-Ban pitched well again giving up one run in 5 innings. Perez has his 18th steal, most in the league and all of pro ball I think (one more than Hamilton in Majors). Game is tied 1-1 in 6th.

Mehhhh. Just not time bring him up right yet. I still like Callaspo.

(Fedi Logic)

[Braves1976]

Mehhhh. Just not time bring him up right yet. I still like Callaspo.

(Fedi Logic)

I prefer Jedi logic. :)

[chop2chip]

How many near hits will be stolen from Peterson? Damn.

I'm not as surprised when his soft liners are taken away. He tends to hit a lot of those.

[USMA76]

Batting practice at the Great American Smallpark tonight by the Reds. If the Braves don't at least score a run in the bottom of this inning (unlikely given who's coming up) I can't see much point in watching any more of this game.

[dak]

Todd gets the nod?

@KevinMcAlpin
Not sure if one thing has to do with the other but after KJ left w/an oblique strain, Gwinnett took Todd Cunningham out after 4.

[chop2chip]

If you guys are watching Williams Perez over Kluber than you hate baseball.

[nsacpi]

Wonder if he will play left against righties. Or will Fredi expand playing time for Gomes and EY.
Todd gets the nod?

@KevinMcAlpin
Not sure if one thing has to do with the other but after KJ left w/an oblique strain, Gwinnett took Todd Cunningham out after 4.

[Braves1976]

If you guys are watching Williams Perez over Kluber than you hate baseball.

Shoot I am watching Mississippi double-A over Kluber, so maybe I just hate MLB right now. :)

[jsebe10]

Any chance that Callaspo and Gomes are just straight DFAd by July?

[dak]

Stults HR/FB rate is now 17%. Figures to regress back to the mean a bit, but he's definitely pitching worse than his projections at this point.

Iglesias looks really impressive. Looking like a nice high-profile Cuban for the Reds. Signed last year for 5 / $27m.

[Braves1976]

Perez showing some potential tonight unlike his first game, hopefully he was just very nervous and will be mostly good for us in the future.

[dak]

If you guys are watching Williams Perez over Kluber than you hate baseball.

Perez on the TV, Kluber on the MLB app.

[Braves1976]

Pedro 2-3 as a pinch hitter..

[chop2chip]

Shoot I am watching Mississippi double-A over Kluber, so maybe I just hate MLB right now. :)
It's okay. It was only the highest game score ever for a pitcher. Haha

[Braves1976]

It's okay. It was only the highest game score ever for a pitcher. Haha

Good thing they archive all the games where I can watch it later with my MLB.tv app. :)

[jsebe10]

Pedro 2-3 as a pinch hitter..

Mehhh. Hes not quite ready for a start. I still like Callaspo.

Jedi Logic. ;)

[Braves1976]

Oh great, time for the white flag.. Now I'll change games. :)

[Garmel]

Wow! Back to back scoreless innings for Cahill. It's a Christmas miracle!

[jsebe10]

Folks,

Gomes is really bad. Something has to be done to clear up a roster a spot. Dude is dead weight.

[Braves1976]

Folks,

Gomes is really bad. Something has to be done to clear up a roster a spot. Dude is dead weight.

Gomes is really bad vs righties, but he can still hit lefties. He came in hitting .385 with a 1.216 OPS vs lefties (best numbers vs lefties on the team). He has bad overall numbers because he's being played too much vs righties.

[bravesnumberone]

Folks,

Gomes is really bad. Something has to be done to clear up a roster a spot. Dude is dead weight.

BUT VETERAN LEADERSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sturg33]

BUT VETERAN LEADERSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!

He;s teaching the kids how to win (while we lose)

[Garmel]

From DOB:

"Braves place KJohnson on DL with strained oblique, recall Cunningham from Triple-A"

This season keeps getting better and better. I hope when facing RHPs we have Cunningham in there instead of Gomes or EY.

[thewupk]

Braves are currently on pace to win 71 games. Braves have been on a 55 game win pace after the miracle 5-0 start. I really don't think 100 losses is out of the question unless our pitching improves.

[bravesnumberone]

He;s teaching the kids how to win (while we lose)

If he can teach Fredi how to manage, it's a win for us.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Need to see the following letters in regards to Stults pretty soon: D.F.A

[Garmel]

Need to see the following letters in regards to Stults pretty soon: D.F.A

His time is running out. The question is on who replaces him. Perhaps Perez? I don't know if I want to start Wisler's or ManBan's clock in a rebuilding year.

[bravesnumberone]

Yea I'd rather not rush Wisler or ManBan unless we know we can be competitive. Just too many holes in the team. Forgive my ignorance. Is Wang still down in AAA? Could he be worse than what we've gotten from Stults/Cahill?

[Garmel]

Wang's ERA is 5.70. I don't think he could offer us anything.

[Garmel]

With KJ going down and Cunningham coming up there will be a void in CF at Gwinnett. Is there a chance that Mallex Smith will be promoted to fill that spot or will Eury Perez man it? It might be too early for Mallex. Hard to say.

[sturg33]

Need to see the following letters in regards to Stults pretty soon: D.F.A

But... those innings man!

[Tapate50]

But... those innings man!

He has already served the role of not having to force our top arms into the rotation yet. That is the primary function for Stults for now and his time remaining on the roster.

[thethe]

He has already served the role of not having to force our top arms into the rotation yet. That is the primary function for Stults for now and his time remaining on the roster.

Its fascinating that people don't realize it but I guess I shouldn't be surprised with the posters that mock it.

[chop2chip]

He has already served the role of not having to force our top arms into the rotation yet. That is the primary function for Stults for now and his time remaining on the roster.
I don't buy this one iota. If his purpose is to just complete innings, then I'm not impressed. There are relatively few pitchers that couldn't pitch 40 innings over 8 starts with an era of 6. He didn't serve any real function.

Cutting Wandy in favor of him was a mistake. An understandable mistake, but a mistake nevertheless.

Besides, I doubt the three John's anticipated having both Folty and Potentially Wisler in the rotation in mid May.

[sturg33]

Its fascinating that people don't realize it but I guess I shouldn't be surprised with the posters that mock it.

Fascinating! You understand we could put ANYONE in the rotation to give us bad innings. Wang could do that just fine. We could probably still sign Shayne Rynolds or Albie Lopez.

What's fascinating is we got rid of the superior pitcher. What's not fascinating the typical lot will defend the Braves no matter what

[thethe]

Fascinating! You understand we could put ANYONE in the rotation to give us bad innings. Wang could do that just fine. We could probably still sign Shayne Rynolds or Albie Lopez.

What's fascinating is we got rid of the superior pitcher. What's not fascinating the typical lot will defend the Braves no matter what

Again, Braves decided on Stults because of his health track record. It has been discussed numerous times. Wang is getting shelled at AAA...he would be even worse than Stults in the majors and probably couldn't last more than 2 innings a start. Its not pretty watching Stults out there but for the long term health of the organization its a positive. However, you are going to turn everything into an absolute negative for the organization (aside from the universally praised Kimbrel deal) while I will look at things in a positive light. I'm ok with that.

[Tapate50]

I don't buy this one iota. If his purpose is to just complete innings, then I'm not impressed. There are relatively few pitchers that couldn't pitch 40 innings over 8 starts with an era of 6. He didn't serve any real function.

Cutting Wandy in favor of him was a mistake. An understandable mistake, but a mistake nevertheless.

Besides, I doubt the three John's anticipated having both Folty and Potentially Wisler in the rotation in mid May.

Oh, I'd have kept Wandy as well. No doubt about that whatsoever. The only problem with Wandy is if he makes three starts and goes down with an injury, then our hand is forced a bit more.

He is our Livan Hernandez at this point. Just don't get us blown out option to postpone arby clocks. I completely buy that's the idea here.

[chop2chip]

Again, Braves decided on Stults because of his health track record. It has been discussed numerous times. Wang is getting shelled at AAA...he would be even worse than Stults in the majors and probably couldn't last more than 2 innings a start. Its not pretty watching Stults out there but for the long term health of the organization its a positive. However, you are going to turn everything into an absolute negative for the organization (aside from the universally praised Kimbrel deal) while I will look at things in a positive light. I'm ok with that.
It looks like there's a really strong chance Wandy pitches a lot more innings this year than Stults. Health is important, but so is effectiveness.

[UNCBlue012]

Again, Braves decided on Stults because of his health track record. It has been discussed numerous times. Wang is getting shelled at AAA...he would be even worse than Stults in the majors and probably couldn't last more than 2 innings a start. Its not pretty watching Stults out there but for the long term health of the organization its a positive. However, you are going to turn everything into an absolute negative for the organization (aside from the universally praised Kimbrel deal) while I will look at things in a positive light. I'm ok with that.

There is absolutely no doubt that the Braves made a mistake, and a stupid one IMO, on Wandy. He should be in the rotation. Stults could actually be good in the bullpen though.

[thethe]

It looks like there's a really strong chance Wandy pitches a lot more innings this year than Stults. Health is important, but so is effectiveness.

Yes, if you could have guarnteed me that Wandy was going to be healthy then you take Wandy every day of the week over Stults. But I can't assess whether the decision was right or not based on the results.

[chop2chip]

Oh, I'd have kept Wandy as well. No doubt about that whatsoever. The only problem with Wandy is if he makes three starts and goes down with an injury, then our hand is forced a bit more.

He is our Livan Hernandez at this point. Just don't get us blown out option to postpone arby clocks. I completely buy that's the idea here.

That's fair. Though it's not as if this is some sort of 20/20 hindsight jargon, Stults struggling like this was fairly predictable.

I was as wrong as anybody, but it looks like the real mistake was letting Harang walk.

[Tapate50]

There is absolutely no doubt that the Braves made a mistake, and a stupid one IMO, on Wandy. He should be in the rotation. Stults could actually be good in the bullpen though.

I agree, but its not like its a huge one. They may have known they were taking the more reliable, lower ceiling player and been ok with that. My position on it is that it isn't really a decision worth bringing up all the time because in the end it doesn't really matter.

[chop2chip]

Yes, if you could have guarnteed me that Wandy was going to be healthy then you take Wandy every day of the week over Stults. But I can't assess whether the decision was right or not based on the results.
Again this isn't result based analysis. Stults was expected to be awful and this is what awful looks like. Wandy never had to give us 200 innings, meanwhile Stults isn't going to make it through May. Is Stults being removed from the rotation any less surprising than Wandy getting hurt?

[chop2chip]

I agree, but its not like its a huge one. They may have known they were taking the more reliable, lower ceiling player and been ok with that. My position on it is that it isn't really a decision worth bringing up all the time because in the end it doesn't really matter.

This decision alone doesn't matter, but if they push Wisler to the roto and he isn't ready than it might matter. Hopefully they put Perez in before him.

[thethe]

Again this isn't result based analysis. Stults was expected to be awful and this is what awful looks like. Wandy never had to give us 200 innings, meanwhile Stults isn't going to make it through May. Is Stults being removed from the rotation any less surprising than Wandy getting hurt?

But Wandy giving us even 50 innings was in debate because you never know when a pitcher is going to get hurt...especially one with a recent terrible injury history.

The decision for Stults had nothing to do with effectiveness IMO.

[Tapate50]

This decision alone doesn't matter, but if they push Wisler to the roto and he isn't ready than it might matter. Hopefully they put Perez in before him.

He or Cahill may get first shot to drop the ball. I don't really think either sticks. ManBan isn't supposed to take on a full workload this year, so I am not sure if they would pull him up just to shut him down midway down the stretch if he is rolling.

[thethe]

I wouldn't call up Banuelos this year. Let him log his innings in a controlled environment. Then let him win a spot in the rotation next year.

I'd trade Alex Wood for a big time bat and then run a rotation of Teheran/Miller/Folty/Wisler/Banuelos.

Let them take their lumps in 2016 and get ready to roll in 2017.

[chop2chip]

The decision for Stults had nothing to do with effectiveness IMO.

Obviously it did if they are thinking of cutting bait with him already.

[Hawk]

I'd trade Alex Wood for a big time bat and then run a rotation of Teheran/Miller/Folty/Wisler/Banuelos.

Boston has a major need for quality arms right now. I'd be easily tempted to move Wood OR Teheran if it would net the Braves a package like Mookie Betts + JBJ + ...

[thethe]

Boston has a major need for quality arms right now. I'd be easily tempted to move Wood OR Teheran if it would net the Braves a package like Mookie Betts + JBJ + ...

I don't want to trade Teheran personally. I don't care that he is struggling now. This is a kid they have instructed since he was 16 and he grown in the developmental system.

Sign me up right now for Wood for Betts/JBJ/lower level high ceiling prospect.

[sturg33]

Boston has a major need for quality arms right now. I'd be easily tempted to move Wood OR Teheran if it would net the Braves a package like Mookie Betts + JBJ + ...

Boston wouldn't trade Betts for Hamels. And Wood ain't no Hamels

[thethe]

Boston wouldn't trade Betts for Hamels. And Wood ain't no Hamels

His salary the next 4 years makes him more valuable than Hamels even though the Red Sox can spend as much as they want.

[Hawk]

Boston wouldn't trade Betts for Hamels. And Wood ain't no Hamels

This was before they fully realized their pitching staff is arguably the worst in baseball.

[Hawk]

I don't want to trade Teheran personally. I don't care that he is struggling now. This is a kid they have instructed since he was 16 and he grown in the developmental system.

Sign me up right now for Wood for Betts/JBJ/lower level high ceiling prospect.

I've never really been completely in awe of Teheran. Great pitcher, but I feel like if you can sell him as an ace (bundled with extremely reasonable cost control through 2020) you would be remiss not to explore the potential return.

[gilesfan]

Yes, if you could have guarnteed me that Wandy was going to be healthy then you take Wandy every day of the week over Stults. But I can't assess whether the decision was right or not based on the results.

If there was any way to guarantee that either Wandy or Stults would be healthy, please share it and email the Braves organization as well because no one has figured out when and why pitchers go down.

[gilesfan]

I've never really been completely in awe of Teheran. Great pitcher, but I feel like if you can sell him as an ace (bundled with extremely reasonable cost control through 2020) you would be remiss not to explore the potential return.

I would trade Teheran today if I could get a top 20 prospect bat. I think people have this perception that he's a budding ace based on his low ERA last year. He's now 24 and at 74 starts in his career with a 3.83 FIP and 3.85 xFIP (3.29 ERA). Unless you believe he has an ability to outpitch his peripherals, then why not trade him if another team views him as a 24 year old future ace? Here is a fangraphs fantasy article on him from a couple weeks back:

I see two possibilities here. One explanation is that he is injured. He isn’t controlling his pitches, he is losing his velocity, and the next step is word of an arm injury. That’s a possibility, but I see no reports of pain, discomfort or anything else. If he is hurt, it is not public knowledge. And I talked to Jeff Zimmerman, our resident expert on potentially injured pitchers, and he is not ready to put Teheran on his warning list. He had a big drop in velocity in his previous start (before last night), but it bounced back. If the velocity stays down 2-3 straight games, he’ll be concerned.

The other is that his inability to get ahead of batters is allowing them to sit on pitches, and get a better read. They can sit dead red, ignore the off-speed stuff (since he can’t get strikes with it anyway). And when “dead red” means a 90 mph fastball, big league hitters are going to tee off in a big way – like 2 HR/9 IP big.

In either case, Julio Teheran is basically unusable right now. Until he is able to get those off-speed pitches into the strike zone, he’s going to continue to walk everyone and the guys he doesn’t walk will continue to hit the ball really, really hard. Until you see the walks come down (and more specifically, the off-speed pitches hitting the zone) I’d keep him riding the pine.

I might even look to sell low.


On the other hand is a pitcher that seems to be relatively overlooked in Wood, who has 42 starts (same age) and 3.05 FIP and 3.28 xFIP. (3.08 ERA) This is a kid that I think actually is a budding ace (though as 50 mentioned, he does labor through starts at times). I don't think you get as much for Wood as you do for Teheran based on past prospect rankings.

I would take a shot at Wood/Miller with Folty and/or Wisler and a vet or 2 and give it a go considering the added prospect bat obtained for Teheran. The club is no where in terms of future hitting prospects at the major league/high levels right now. It's Freeman/Simmons with question marks in Peterson/Bethancourt.

[chop2chip]

Julio doesn't have to be an ace to be worth keeping. He's basically an extremely Cost controlled 2/3 starter that doesn't appear to be an obvious candidate for injury (like Wood) that we have under control until 2020. Even if he's Ervin Santana, he's going to be really valuable moving forward.

But I would trade him for Mookie. That's a no brainer.

[jsebe10]

Not sold on Mookie yet. He will need to prove that he can hit lefties and hit away from that piss poor excuse of a left field in Fenway. Dude is nothing less than complete hot garbage on the road.

I'd unload Wood in a heartbeat. I think he's vastly overrated. Besides a good curve and an unorthodox delivery, his fastball is as flat as snake nuts and he gets tattooed. And it seems like whenever we need him to pitch a good game, he chokes and we have to listen to him studder his way through excuses in the post game interviews. Could give **** about him.

[sturg33]

I'd unload Wood in a heartbeat.

Your woman may not appreciate that

[thewupk]

Julio doesn't have to be an ace to be worth keeping. He's basically an extremely Cost controlled 2/3 starter that doesn't appear to be an obvious candidate for injury (like Wood) that we have under control until 2020. Even if he's Ervin Santana, he's going to be really valuable moving forward.

But I would trade him for Mookie. That's a no brainer.

That's true. But if you can sell him as a future ace that's cost controlled (sell high on him) then you do it.