2016 Rotation

[nsacpi]

Do we go with Teheran, Wood, Miller, Folty and Wisler, with Banuelos, Williams Perez and Martin as depth? Or do we bring in an older guy?

[yeezus]

Gotta think Stultsy has secured a spot.

[smootness]

Do we go with Teheran, Wood, Miller, Folty and Wisler, with Banuelos, Williams Perez and Martin as depth? Or do we bring in an older guy?

I would say that's a good assumption given we don't make a move, but I could see us trying to get somebody in FA as well.

Beyond that, it just depends on performance. We know Teheran, Wood, and Miller are definites. I think Folty has a good chance to stick as well, so it's between the rest for that last spot.

[Braves1976]

I think Man-Ban is out of options next year. If so he'll need to be in our rotation or bullpen and I'd prefer him to get a shot in our rotation.

[clvclv]

If - and obviously a HUGE if - everyone continues to develop as hoped, I still wonder if Folty might not be looked at as our Kimbrel "replacement". Say Wisler and Banuelos turn into what we hope, you'd have Miller-Teheran-Wood-Wisler-Banuelos with Perez and Jenkins as depth and a back-end of Martin/Grilli/Folty.

Folty's the one guy out of the group that I feel would be a lights-out guy at the back-end - he and Miller obviously have the best "stuff", but I think Mike's also got the best mentality for that role too.

That rotation with that back-end would give you the luxury of chasing Justin or Cespedes AND Weiters if he comes back healthy and Bethancourt doesn't hit and leave money left to take on salary if you needed to go more than 7 deep with SPs.

Of course if Roger's able to get Folty close to his ceiling as a starter, we'd have a *elluva nice problem on our hands.

[yeezus]

Safe to say we have a lot of young pitching depth. I ain't mad about it.

[Enscheff]

I think the Braves are going to have to come up with 2 impact (~900 OPS) bats before 2017 if they are serious about being a contending team by the time the new ballpark opens. One of those bats will probably have to be signed, and one will probably have to be traded for. If some of the young pitching is used to acquire one of the impact bats, I fully expect a slot in the rotation to be filled by a FA guy on a 2-3 year deal.

Sign JUp to play LF, trade for Tulo to play 3B, and sign a MOR FA starter. Something like that. Who ends up being traded away is totally up in the air.

[nsacpi]

I think the Braves are going to have to come up with 2 impact (~900 OPS) bats before 2017 if they are serious about being a contending team by the time the new ballpark opens. One of those bats will probably have to be signed, and one will probably have to be traded for. If some of the young pitching is used to acquire one of the impact bats, I fully expect a slot in the rotation to be filled by a FA guy on a 2-3 year deal.

Sign JUp to play LF, trade for Tulo to play 3B, and sign a MOR FA starter. Something like that. Who ends up being traded away is totally up in the air.

How much additional salary do you think we would take on next year. By my calculation we are currently at about $65M in obligations for 2016.

[thethe]

Why do people still think that Tulo is a good target? Aging player taken out of Coors....no thanks.

[yeezus]

I think the Braves are going to have to come up with 2 impact (~900 OPS) bats before 2017 if they are serious about being a contending team by the time the new ballpark opens. One of those bats will probably have to be signed, and one will probably have to be traded for. If some of the young pitching is used to acquire one of the impact bats, I fully expect a slot in the rotation to be filled by a FA guy on a 2-3 year deal.

Sign JUp to play LF, trade for Tulo to play 3B, and sign a MOR FA starter. Something like that. Who ends up being traded away is totally up in the air.

How many guys put up an OPS around .900?
Not many.

[weso1]

Miller, Wood, Teheran, Minor and Folty. Manny in the pen and Wisler in AAA to replace an injured starter in 16 and/or replace Minor in 17. To me that is best case scenario.

[Tapate50]

Miller, Wood, Teheran, Minor and Folty. Manny in the pen and Wisler in AAA to replace an injured starter in 16 and/or replace Minor in 17. To me that is best case scenario.

I think its very long odds Minor is a contributor to the Atlanta Braves in 2017.

[thethe]

How many guys put up an OPS around .900?
Not many.

Upton isn't one of those guys either (even though I'd love to get him back).

[Tapate50]

I think the Braves are going to have to come up with 2 impact (~900 OPS) bats before 2017 if they are serious about being a contending team by the time the new ballpark opens. One of those bats will probably have to be signed, and one will probably have to be traded for. If some of the young pitching is used to acquire one of the impact bats, I fully expect a slot in the rotation to be filled by a FA guy on a 2-3 year deal.

Sign JUp to play LF, trade for Tulo to play 3B, and sign a MOR FA starter. Something like that. Who ends up being traded away is totally up in the air.

Getting TWO 900 ops guys in two years is not even realistic. I think the design for this team going forward is the Giants model. No holes, solid OBP lineup top to bottom, and great starting pitching.

[yeezus]

Upton isn't one of those guys either (even though I'd love to get him back).

Yeah, like tapate said, it's like, not even possible. how many lineups have TWO .900 OPS guys (and we'd have three if you count Freddie).

[cajunrevenge]

Too early tell. Folty, Wisler, and Banuelos will all probably get a chance in the rotation this year to lock up a starting spot going into 2016. I am not ready to write Minor off for 2016 either.

[JohnAdcox]

Getting TWO 900 ops guys in two years is not even realistic. I think the design for this team going forward is the Giants model. No holes, solid OBP lineup top to bottom, and great starting pitching.

Your mouth to God’s ears.

[Carp]

Ideally, I'd like to sign Price and roll with Price, Miller, Teheran, Wood, and one of Folty, Wisler, or ManBan, with the other two going to the pen.

[Knucksie]

Shocking as it seems to those of you who refuse to believe that rosters turn over year-to-year, but some of those pitchers will be traded this off season.

[Enscheff]

How much additional salary do you think we would take on next year. By my calculation we are currently at about $65M in obligations for 2016.

I would guess $25M+ for JUp and $10M-$15M for the FA pitcher whenever one of the young guns is traded, so ~$40M added. Ideally the other bat brought in would be cost controlled at a good value, or the other team would pick up some of the tab (like the Kemp trade) in exchange for a better package from the Braves. Otherwise, why trade a young cheap starting pitcher to acquire said bat? If the other impact bat ends up being overly expensive, I wouldn't expect the Braves to give up young starting pitching to acquire it, and they wouldn't need to sign the above mentioned FA pitcher.

The trade for a bat doesn't have to happen next year (it could happen after the 2016 season), but signing JUp is almost a requirement to compete by 2017. There simply aren't any other impact bats hitting the FA market within the next 2 years, and people are delusional if they think this lineup can win much of anything without 2 more legit bats. And yes, by impact I mean ~900 OPS, or at least within spitting distance (850) of that type of production.

[Julio3000]

The depth looks really nice on paper, but I am of the opinion that we're going to have to trade for a bat. I just don't see us signing JUp. That ship has sailed.

I'm also not convinced that Banuelos, or even Folty, is going to stick in the rotation, although I'd love it if Mike did.

[nsacpi]

Ideally the other bat brought in would be cost controlled at a good value, or the other team would pick up some of the tab (like the Kemp trade) in exchange for a better package from the Braves.

I think the Kemp trade is a good template for what we should be trying to do the next couple of years. Yankees have some catching prospects. Would McCann be a candidate for that kind of trade?

[Tapate50]

I think the Kemp trade is a good template for what we should be trying to do the next couple of years. Yankees have some catching prospects. Would McCann be a candidate for that kind of trade?

Not IMO.

[dak]

Do we go with Teheran, Wood, Miller, Folty and Wisler, with Banuelos, Williams Perez and Martin as depth? Or do we bring in an older guy?

I'd like to see one veteran SP added to this mix since Folty, Wisler, Perez, and Martin all have options. Either Minor if he's tendered or another mid-rotation SP.

Assuming a worst-case scenario (from an available budget perspective) of Minor, Grilli, CJ, Maybin, Gomes, and Toscano being on the payroll next year . . . I have our total commitments at around $72m. That's leaves somewhere in the neighborhood of $40-$50m to spend depending on budget assumptions. In that scenario we'd have needs at corner OF, C, bench, and 1 or 2 BP spots.

[Hudson2]

I'd love to get Justin back but not sure if there are hard feelings there. We cant put all of our eggs in the offseason of 2016 and hope we can get everything we need for the new stadium. We have to start this offseason and get at least one big piece out of the way. Whether that's an OF'er (Upton), SP (Price or Greinke), or a C (Weiters). But for the rotation this is what I'd wish to see.

Greinke/Price
Teheran
Miller
Wood
Wisler

With Folty possibly closing.

[Enscheff]

I'd love to get Justin back but not sure if there are hard feelings there. We cant put all of our eggs in the offseason of 2016 and hope we can get everything we need for the new stadium. We have to start this offseason and get at least one big piece out of the way. Whether that's an OF'er (Upton), SP (Price or Greinke), or a C (Weiters). But for the rotation this is what I'd wish to see.

Greinke/Price
Teheran
Miller
Wood
Wisler

With Folty possibly closing.

I agree that all the pieces for a championship caliber club don't have to be (and probably won't be) acquired this offseason. I think one FA bat will be signed, and one bat will be acquired via trade. If that trade involves one of the young studs slated for the MLB rotation, then a complementary move of signing a legit MOR starter to a 2-4 year deal will also be made around the same time.

However, I doubt very much that the plan was to stock up on young high upside arms and then sign a Price or Grienke(sp?) to a mega deal. I think the plan was to grow an Ace internally, and use the trade and monetary resources to acquire offensive talent. If the need arises after trading for an offensive piece, I could see the Braves dishing out $10M-$15M per year over 2-4 years for a solid veteran arm to handle 200 innings in the middle of the rotation though.

Since one of the bats will almost certainly need to be signed via FA, and JUp is pretty much the only impact bat available over the next 2 offseasons, he would be my #1 priority this offseason. The cost will be significant, starting at a minimum of 7+ years and $25M+ per year, but he is the piece this team needs since there isn't anything even resembling an impact bat anywhere in the system that has any chance of contributing by 2017.

[smootness]

Ideally, I'd like to sign Price and roll with Price, Miller, Teheran, Wood, and one of Folty, Wisler, or ManBan, with the other two going to the pen.

Wisler won't be in the pen. He'll either be starting or traded.

And Folty is the one most capable of being a closer, but he also has the highest ceiling as a starter. And he's shown quite a bit of improvement even over last year already.

We have no designs, right now, of Folty in the pen. We are set on him being in the rotation. He'll only be moved if he crashes and burns.

[Hawk]

I would be shocked if the Braves weren't major players for Price. They tried to acquire him last year (Tampa wanted Alex Wood, Bethancourt, and two prospects -- haha), and although I agree with the 'Braves need bats' sentiment ... if you have the resources to add an ace like Price at a cost that's not insane then you'd be foolish not to make a play -- especially given the SP depth in this coming offseason's FA pool.

And then there was this Heyman quote:
"Rumor has it that if the Rays were to deal him, he'd most prefer the Atlanta Braves, which is the team closest to Tennessee, and that he'd least prefer teams that are far away. Geography seems to count for Price."

I think the Upton ship has sailed, don't see him returning. If the Braves add a major bat it will be via trade.

[Enscheff]

I would be shocked if the Braves weren't major players for Price. They tried to acquire him last year (Tampa wanted Alex Wood, Bethancourt, and two prospects -- haha), and although I agree with the 'Braves need bats' sentiment ... if you have the resources to add an ace like Price at a cost that's not insane then you'd be foolish not to make a play -- especially given the SP depth in this coming offseason's FA pool.

And then there was this Heyman quote:
"Rumor has it that if the Rays were to deal him, he'd most prefer the Atlanta Braves, which is the team closest to Tennessee, and that he'd least prefer teams that are far away. Geography seems to count for Price."

I think the Upton ship has sailed, don't see him returning. If the Braves add a major bat it will be via trade.

Enough with the hometown discounts already. Price is going to sign for over $200M because that's what young Aces are paid on the FA market.

The Braves have a stable of young pitchers including Miller, Teheran, Wood, Folty, Wisler, ManBan, Sims, Jenkins and Fried (who folks forget was the #7 overall pick in 2012). Several of them have a legit chance of becoming an Ace, while all of them have a legit chance of becoming MOR starters or late innings BP arms. The Braves bent over backwards this offseason to acquire the majority of those arms, so I would be shocked if the plan is anything other than to fill the rotation with homegrown talent while maybe filling in a slot with a good value FA signing on a relatively short deal.

The only way I could see Price wearing a tomahawk is if something crazy happens like a Teheran plus Fried for Starling Marte trade with the Pirates(or some other trade for a bat that requires 2 young stud pitchers). At that point Marte's (or someone like that) low cost contract coupled with a big hit to the organizational pitching talent opens up a logical situation to acquire an Ace from the FA market.

[Hawk]

Enough with the hometown discounts already. Price is going to sign for over $200M because that's what young Aces are paid on the FA market.

I never inferred that. I did infer that the market might not be as insane as it was in 2015 because there are a slew of TOR arms potentially available (Cueto/Zimmerman/Samardzija/Greinke/Fister/etc.) I also said that Price appears to want to play in Atlanta, take from that what you will.


The Braves have a stable of young pitchers including Miller, Teheran, Wood, Folty, Wisler, ManBan, Sims, Jenkins and Fried (who folks forget was the #7 overall pick in 2012). The Braves bent over backwards this offseason to acquire the majority of those arms, so I would be shocked if the plan is anything other than to fill the rotation with homegrown talent while maybe filling in a slot with a good value FA signing on a relatively short deal.

If one of Folty/Wisler/ManBan/Sims/Jenkins/Fried morphs into a true #1 then I think the Braves would be thrilled. If you can move one or two of those arms in a package for a legitimate offense piece(s) then you do it and rely on two strong drafts and increased international spending to try and fill other offensive holes. The Braves also have some intriguing bats on the way that could ostensibly fill holes in the infield and outfield.

The Braves 'bent over backwards' to stock the farm system with pitching because strong pitching is an organizational philosophy that they felt they got too far away from and wanted to readopt. Like it or not, Price fits the mold and would give the Braves a rock solid, exceptionally cost-controlled rotation through 2020 -- at least.


The only way I could see Price wearing a tomahawk is if something crazy happens like a Teheran plus Fried for Starling Marte trade with the Pirates(or some other trade for a bat that requires 2 young stud pitchers). At that point Marte's (or someone like that) low cost contract coupled with a big hit to the organizational pitching talent opens up a logical situation to acquire an Ace from the FA market.

I wouldn't do that deal.

[dak]

I would be shocked if the Braves weren't major players for Price. They tried to acquire him last year (Tampa wanted Alex Wood, Bethancourt, and two prospects -- haha), and although I agree with the 'Braves need bats' sentiment ... if you have the resources to add an ace like Price at a cost that's not insane then you'd be foolish not to make a play -- especially given the SP depth in this coming offseason's FA pool.

And then there was this Heyman quote:
"Rumor has it that if the Rays were to deal him, he'd most prefer the Atlanta Braves, which is the team closest to Tennessee, and that he'd least prefer teams that are far away. Geography seems to count for Price."

I think the Upton ship has sailed, don't see him returning. If the Braves add a major bat it will be via trade.

Yeah, I won't be surprised if we look into the top tier FAs . . . especially Price. Our quality SP depth gives us leverage and flexibility though, so someone more desperate will probably outbid us.

Completely agree on Upton. No interest from either side. Braves didn't even try to extend him. He lives in Phoenix, so it would be an enormous upset if a team that trains in Florida signs him.

[Enscheff]

I never inferred that. I did infer that the market might not be as insane as it was in 2015 because there are a slew of TOR arms potentially available (Cueto/Zimmerman/Samardzija/Greinke/Fister/etc.) I also said that Price appears to want to play in Atlanta, take from that what you will.



If one of Folty/Wisler/ManBan/Sims/Jenkins/Fried morphs into a true #1 then I think the Braves would be thrilled. If you can move one or two of those arms in a package for a legitimate offense piece(s) then you do it and rely on two strong drafts and increased international spending to try and fill other offensive holes. The Braves also have some intriguing bats on the way that could ostensibly fill holes in the infield and outfield.

The Braves 'bent over backwards' to stock the farm system with pitching because strong pitching is an organizational philosophy that they felt they got too far away from and wanted to readopt. Like it or not, Price fits the mold and would give the Braves a rock solid, exceptionally cost-controlled rotation through 2020 -- at least.



I wouldn't do that deal.

The Marte example wasn't a real proposal, he was just the first good young cost controlled player that came to my mind.

The Braves (and MLB as a whole) have watched pitcher after pitcher go down to injury. The Braves alone have lost Medlen, Beachy and Minor in the last 2 years alone, and that isn't even including BP arms.

A championship level team needs 2-3 TOR guys and 2-3 MOR guys. It seems every team can expect to lose at least 1 (and sometimes 2) starter(s) to injury every single year, almost like clockwork. Since TJ surgery effectively sidelines a starter for 2 years as they heal, recover and then rebuild their innings load, a championship level team actually needs 3-4 TOR guys and 3-4 MOR guys at any given time.

Expensive long term contracts for position players are certainly far from a safe thing (as Braves fans are all too well aware), but they are MUCH safer bets than expensive long term contracts for pitchers. If I were setting an overall organization philosophy, I would use primarily homegrown arms until they either blew out of got expensive, and then trade them or cut them loose. FA pitchers would be brought in on short (2-3 years) deals to supplement the rotation and/or BP, but the team would never be contractually locked to a pitcher for more than 3-4 years. Only positional players would ever be given long term (5+ years) contracts.

[Enscheff]

Yeah, I won't be surprised if we look into the top tier FAs . . . especially Price. Our quality SP depth gives us leverage and flexibility though, so someone more desperate will probably outbid us.

Completely agree on Upton. No interest from either side. Braves didn't even try to extend him. He lives in Phoenix, so it would be an enormous upset if a team that trains in Florida signs him.

Some team will give him 250 million reasons, and he won't give two ****s where he spends 6 weeks in Feb/Mar.

[dak]

Some team will give him 250 million reasons, and he won't give two ****s where he spends 6 weeks in Feb/Mar.

Anyting's possible. See Robinson Cano. Would take a big overpay to get him to a team that trains in Florida, IMO.

[Carp]

Price should sign for somewhere around what Lester got, imo. Possibly a little more. I'd sign him for that.

[Russ2dollas]

I think Folty or Wisler is the headlliner in a package to get a RF prospect. I think we get an OF from Pitt.

I expect the braves to have 1 vet, scrap heap project in the top 5.

If they hold pat...they prob use Man Ban or vet to hold down Wisler's service time.

[Tapate50]

I think Folty or Wisler is the headlliner in a package to get a RF prospect. I think we get an OF from Pitt.

I expect the braves to have 1 vet, scrap heap project in the top 5.

If they hold pat...they prob use Man Ban or vet to hold down Wisler's service time.

Man Ban on innings limit. I'd be surprised if we saw in in Atl unless we were forced. And returning from TJ, the big club is probably the LAST place a guy like that wants to be right now.

[Tapate50]

I don't see my post from earlier, but if we are hunting for an ace, and need to pay for one... Zimmerman strikes me as a solid choice. There aren't many big FA's i'd like us to persue, but he would pique my interest.

[Heyward]

I think the Braves are going to have to come up with 2 impact (~900 OPS) bats before 2017 if they are serious about being a contending team by the time the new ballpark opens. One of those bats will probably have to be signed, and one will probably have to be traded for. If some of the young pitching is used to acquire one of the impact bats, I fully expect a slot in the rotation to be filled by a FA guy on a 2-3 year deal.

Sign JUp to play LF, trade for Tulo to play 3B, and sign a MOR FA starter. Something like that. Who ends up being traded away is totally up in the air.

Umm, 8 players in all of baseball had a 900+ OPS last year.

And pretty much none of them are up for trade being realistic.

I'll take Cespedes and Wieters.

Trade Wood, couple others for another bat, and go from there.

[Heyward]

I think Folty or Wisler is the headlliner in a package to get a RF prospect. I think we get an OF from Pitt.

I expect the braves to have 1 vet, scrap heap project in the top 5.

If they hold pat...they prob use Man Ban or vet to hold down Wisler's service time.

Dont think they'll have a Stults/Cahill in the rotation next year.

Should have plenty of money to sign an impact starter, and have loads of pitching depth as it is.

I think Miller, Julio are locks, after that is up in the air.

I'd have Miller, Julio, Wisler, Folty, and FA.

[Heyward]

Price should sign for somewhere around what Lester got, imo. Possibly a little more. I'd sign him for that.

Detroit probably keeps him, and he's getting at least Scherzer type money.

[Heyward]

Im not against going after a big-name starter but given all the young pitching they got this past winter, im not sure that happens.

Better chance of a 200 IP vet on a 2-3 year deal.

I'd rather go for Cespedes and Wieters. Or just one, trade for the other bat but takes two to tango. Im not exactly sure what bats are available via trade.

Dont see Justin happening either.

[UNCBlue012]

Im not against going after a big-name starter but given all the young pitching they got this past winter, im not sure that happens.

Better chance of a 200 IP vet on a 2-3 year deal.

I'd rather go for Cespedes and Wieters. Or just one, trade for the other bat but takes two to tango. Im not exactly sure what bats are available via trade.

Dont see Justin happening either.

Hmm, I haven't thought about adding Wieters in a longtime, but I do like that idea a lot. I'm torn because I think it would be smart to add a guy Price, Grienke, Zimmerman, Fister, etc.

If we could do it all by 2017, great. But, I'm sure that's a pipedream... that's a great addition...

I'd prefer Peraza hitting second, but I like the L/R split.
Peraza 2B
Simba SS
Freeman 1B
Cespedes LF
Weiters C
Peterson 3B
Maybin/Smith CF

Price LHP
Miller RHP
Wood LHP
Teheran RHP
Folty RHP

Would be awesome.

[Hudson2]

So what kind of deal does Weiters probably get?

[thethe]

I'm not about to give a catcher who is about to be 30 a big time deal. If we were going to do that we might as well have kept Mac.

[Carp]

Detroit probably keeps him, and he's getting at least Scherzer type money.

Doubtful. Price compares more to Lester than Scherzer. Price hasn't been elite in a little while. Scherzer has been the 2nd best pitcher in baseball over the last 2 seasons.

[thethe]

Doubtful. Price compares more to Lester than Scherzer. Price hasn't been elite in a little while. Scherzer has been the 2nd best pitcher in baseball over the last 2 seasons.

Price was pretty awesome last season.

[Heyward]

Doubtful. Price compares more to Lester than Scherzer. Price hasn't been elite in a little while. Scherzer has been the 2nd best pitcher in baseball over the last 2 seasons.

With the inflation in baseball, Price will get a massive deal.

Well out of our price range so moot point regardless.

Maybe not Scherzer money but around the 170-190 mil range, perhaps 200 mil which wouldnt be a massive shock.

[Carp]

Price was pretty awesome last season.

He was good. But I wouldnt call a 117 ERA+ awesome. Last time he was awesome, imo, was 2012 when he won the Cy Young. He's been very good since then, but not elite.

[cajunrevenge]

So what kind of deal does Weiters probably get?

Depends how he plays when he returns. I think Borass is his agent do he will probably compare him to Bench and Yogi Berra.

[yeezus]

He was good. But I wouldnt call a 117 ERA+ awesome. Last time he was awesome, imo, was 2012 when he won the Cy Young. He's been very good since then, but not elite.

wut?
He threw 248 innings.
That is amazing. If you can get a pitcher that can do that, it's huge.
This is an instance where looking at ERA+ and saying he was only very good is really stupid.

[jcc03004]

Price has a TON of innings under his belt already. Hope he holds up over the length of whatever crazy deal he gets.