5/23/15 Brewers @ Braves

[Garmel]

Brewers
1. Carlos Gomez (R) CF
2. Gerardo Parra (L) LF
3. Ryan Braun (R) RF
4. Adam Lind (L) 1B
5. Aramis Ramirez (R) 3B
6. Elian Herrera (S) 2B
7. Martin Maldonado (R) C
8. Mike Fiers (R) P
9. Luis Sardinas (S) SS

Braves
1. Jace Peterson (L) 2B
2. Cameron Maybin (R) CF
3. Freddie Freeman (L) 1B
4. Nick Markakis (L) RF
5. Jonny Gomes (R) LF
6. A.J. Pierzynski (L) C
7. Alberto Callaspo (S) 3B
8. Andrelton Simmons (R) SS
9. Shelby Miller (R) P

[MadduxFanII]

Well, I guess we've seen exactly how many 0-4 games Cunningham gets before Fredi pulls the plug.

[UNCBlue012]

Why is Gomes starting again and not Cunningham? At least he plays defense.

[Garmel]

Why is Gomes starting again and not Cunningham? At least he plays defense.

I know, right?

[chop2chip]

if at any point in the game the hitters due up are "Gomes, AJ, and Callaspo" I am turning the game off until the next inning. Bleh

[CyYoung31]

Especially with a righty on the mound. Gomes should never play against a righty.

[jpx7]

if at any point in the game the hitters due up are "Gomes, AJ, and Callaspo" I am turning the game off until the next inning. Bleh

So you're skipping the second inning.

[Garmel]

Especially with a righty on the mound. Gomes should never play against a righty.

It's awful that we have a manager that doesn't realize this.

[Deester11]

It's awful that we have a manager that doesn't realize this.
I don't know if we can bash Fredi enough for his "line-up" construction!

[chop2chip]

If you guys want a good read, check out Jeff Wren's Twitter feed (frank's brother). The man is firing shots at the Braves. Bitter might be too light of an adjective to describe it.

[UNCBlue012]

Really, already... Stupid Brewers.

[thethe]

If you guys want a good read, check out Jeff Wren's Twitter feed (frank's brother). The man is firing shots at the Braves. Bitter might be too light of an adjective to describe it.

Yeah...pretty comical but good for him to stick by his brother.

[Tapate50]

Boy I really can't stand anything about Braun. He has a **** eating jack Parkman type demeanor in the box

[UNCBlue012]

Really Shelby... Come on man. Not angry, just need a bit of effort against a team with 16 wins.

[Heyward]

Really Shelby... Come on man. Not angry, just need a bit of effort against a team with 16 wins.

So he's supposed to pitch a no hitter?

Mil has played better lately, took 2/3 in Detroit earlier this week.

He gave up hits to Gomez and Braun, two studs, first time anyone has done that.

[Tapate50]

Nice rip Jace

[Braves1976]

I really hope we never trade for Braun, like Tapate50 said, I cannot stand him. Of course part of it goes back to his repeated lying and how he did it in such a self-righteous manner. I'd hate to have him on the Braves no matter what his numbers are. Further, it seems apparently I am not alone as Atlanta fans are said to be the most hard on Braun among fans in general.

[weso1]

Really Shelby... Come on man. Not angry, just need a bit of effort against a team with 16 wins.

He gave up hits to Gomez and Braun. He's not exactly the first guy to ever do that.

[Braves1976]

Good start by Jace, maybe he can steal second.

[weso1]

If you guys want a good read, check out Jeff Wren's Twitter feed (frank's brother). The man is firing shots at the Braves. Bitter might be too light of an adjective to describe it.

I didn't know niners had a twitter account.

[Tapate50]

He gave up hits to Gomez and Braun. He's not exactly the first guy to ever do that.

Trade him for whatever you can get. He's done

[Braves1976]

Darn, great throw by the Brewers catcher. Good pitch to throw on too. Oh well.

[Braves1976]

Trade him for whatever you can get. He's done

Haha. :)

[jsebe10]

Miller deserves a better lineup than that. And better construction.

[Braves1976]

Miller is a different pitcher than he had been most of last year. He's not just throwing a sinker more but a lot more cutters too. So no longer just a two pitch pitcher like in the past. He's having a lot of success so far with both the sinker and cutter too.

This is a good article on the topic: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-atlanta-braves-shelby-miller-new-pitches/

[chop2chip]

Miller is a different pitcher than he had been most of last year. He's not just throwing a sinker more but a lot more cutters too. So no longer just a two pitch pitcher like in the past. He's having a lot of success so far with both the sinker and cutter too.

I think his next step is mixing in his curveball and/or developing his change up.

[Heyward]

I really hope we never trade for Braun, like Tapate50 said, I cannot stand him. Of course part of it goes back to his repeated lying and how he did it in such a self-righteous manner. I'd hate to have him on the Braves no matter what his numbers are. Further, it seems apparently I am not alone as Atlanta fans are said to be the most hard on Braun among fans in general.

Understand the premise, but talent trumps all.

Not saying i love Braun or anything but if Mil would eat some of the deal, it's something worth considering.

[Heyward]

Miller is a different pitcher than he had been most of last year. He's not just throwing a sinker more but a lot more cutters too. So no longer just a two pitch pitcher like in the past. He's having a lot of success so far with both the sinker and cutter too.

This is a good article on the topic: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-mlb-atlanta-braves-shelby-miller-new-pitches/

Nah, we should trade him for Todd Frazier, obviously.

[Tapate50]

This guy is carving us up.

[Tapate50]

Always liked Parra as a player. Does everything pretty well

[Braves1976]

Understand the premise, but talent trumps all.

Not saying i love Braun or anything but if Mil would eat some of the deal, it's something worth considering.

Totally disagree. Enough said.

[Braves1976]

Always liked Parra as a player. Does everything pretty well

I like him too. But he wasn't as good last year as in the past.

[TomahawkCult]

Boy I really can't stand anything about Braun. He has a **** eating jack Parkman type demeanor in the box
It's the "Wait fo my signal, ump" stiff arm between pitches that grates on my nerves. Get. On. With. It.

[Tapate50]

It's the "Wait fo my signal, ump" stiff arm between pitches that grates on my nerves. Get. On. With. It.

It's pretty dramatic.

Love Lucroy getting messed with

[chop2chip]

Listening on the radio... Mark Lemke sounds like Jame Gumb.

[Braves1976]

That hop wasn't that off, AJ has failed to catch a number of throws like that this year. While Bethancourt has caught hops tougher up the line and got outs.

[Braves1976]

Maybin just missed a homer there.

[Braves1976]

Nice hustle by Gomes there to keep the inning going.

[Hawk]

Callaspo = boner killer

[Braves1976]

Callaspo = boner killer

I still say we should've gave Garcia a shot at third with both KJ and CJ on the DL.

[Hawk]

I still say we should've gave Garcia a shot at third with both KJ and CJ on the DL.
Agreed.

I was thinking earlier that if the Braves remain in pseudo-contention Aramis Ramirez would be an interesting (cheap) short-term plug.

[Braves1976]

Good comeback by Miller after the leadoff single. Nice strikeout to finish the inning.

[VirginiaBrave]

If the Brewers fall out, I would like Gomez myself, and that's taking nothing from Maybin. I think he deserves a shot at coming back. And after hearing Hart in the third, CK is not done in Atlanta.

[Braves1976]

Miller trying to wake up the offense himself. One out double.

[jpx7]

Absolutely terrible PA by Peterson.

[thethe]

Love Maybin.

[Braves1976]

Maybin continues to contribute, almost hit it out again. Nice swing by Maybin for the RBI double.

[thethe]

Who says we don't have power? Weakest hit double in Freeman career

[Braves1976]

Haha, Freeman hit that very slow but it's double thanks to the shift. Tie game. :)

[Heyward]

If the Brewers fall out, I would like Gomez myself, and that's taking nothing from Maybin. I think he deserves a shot at coming back. And after hearing Hart in the third, CK is not done in Atlanta.

Hypothetically, they could always just move Gomez or Maybin to LF.

Or go with Nick, Gomez, Maybin.

Not that i see us getting Gomez.

[Braves1976]

Miller adding more pitches is helping him keep his velocity later into games because he isn't throwing near as many hard four-seam fastballs. He has already hit 95 and 96 mph multiple times to start this inning.

[Heyward]

Miller doesnt have much left.

[Braves1976]

Good comeback by Miller, he doesn't have his best today but he's battled and mixed his pitches well enough to go at least six innings.

[Heyward]

6 IP, 2 runs despite not having his best stuff, cant complain.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Stupid question but who is CK? Craig Kimbrel coming back to Atlanta to play in the outfield?

[Braves1976]

The announcers are right that Miller probably should've only gave up a run as AJ should've made that play earlier in the game on the throw by Gomes.

[UNCBlue012]

Miller didn't have it and still pitched very well. Love it.

This game is my 78-year old grandma's first and she's a lifelong Braves fan. I need them to win.

[Braves1976]

I hope Fredi doesn't break Cunniff because I am liking that kid more and more.

[Braves1976]

The shadows must be effecting the hitters now, a number of them are missing badly including Maybin that last AB.

[Braves1976]

Smith has some great stuff but he's hanging his breaker with two strikes, got away with it on Freeman but not on Markakis.

Smith did it again with Gomes, hanger with two strikes. It was hard hit but right near the shortstop. Oh well.

[weso1]

I'll tell you what. Ole Jimmy Johns has truly delivered thus far in the season. I think a good chunk of us were ready to give up on him after his terrible start.

[nsacpi]

Jim Johnson has been a great reclamation project.

[chop2chip]

Jimmy John's with another good inning. He's been as close to automatic as they come since Toronto.

[Braves1976]

Hopefully Johnson will continue to do well where we can trade him for a good return at the deadline. I'd like to move Grilli too as I am afraid he'll decline next year if not this year. So hopefully he'll improve his stock enough to be traded too.

[Garmel]

That was some pathetic at-bats by the Braves in that inning.

[weso1]

Jimmy Johns is delivering a sinker sandwich right now that is just absolutely delightful.

[chop2chip]

I'll tell you what. Ole Jimmy Johns has truly delivered thus far in the season. I think a good chunk of us were ready to give up on him after his terrible start.

It wasn't even a terrible start. He had four or five great appearances but he had 3 back to back to back that were atrocious. Since then I don't think he's allowed a run.

[Braves1976]

It wasn't even a terrible start. He had four or five great appearances but he had 3 back to back to back that were atrocious. Since then I don't think he's allowed a run.

He allowed a run in a game vs Philly, but has been much better since then.

[Braves1976]

Simmons just got Markakis an assist with another bullet throw to first. :)

[chop2chip]

Simmons just got Markakis an assist with another bullet throw to first. :)

Simmons has been tough to watch hit the past two weeks, but man, his defense is every single day. That might have saved the game with Gomez due up.

[Heyward]

Simba da gawd

[Runnin]

Andrelton picks off another guy after a clean single. My God this guy is some kinda special.

[Braves1976]

Simmons showing how he baited the runner and like a fisherman reeled him in. :)

[Braves1976]

Simmons has been tough to watch hit the past two weeks, but man, his defense is every single day. That might have saved the game with Gomez due up.

Yea it certainly helped Grilli get out of a tough spot.

[jpx7]

Maybin might've had him without the bobble.

[Hawk]

Why Masset here?

[jpx7]

I'd have left Masset in, with this game already in extras, but :FrediWut:.

[chop2chip]

Why Masset here?
Because Kimbrel is San Diego and Walden is in st Louis.

[Runnin]

Couldn't Alex Wood be available for an inning or two? He needs to throw.

[Heyward]

I'd have left Masset in, with this game already in extras, but :FrediWut:.

Fredi-1

jpx- 0

[Braves1976]

That was hit very hard but right at Freeman setting up an easy DP. That'll work. :)

[jpx7]

I'd have left Masset in, with this game already in extras, but :FrediWut:.

:FrediConfident:

[jpx7]

Fredi-1

jpx- 0

I have reason to believe you're only keeping score for today. :Bowman:

[Garmel]

That sucked.

[Garmel]

What the hell is Fredi thinking?

[jpx7]

Well that was some ****.

[Hawk]

Because Kimbrel is San Diego and Walden is in st Louis.

Oh yeah, drat.

[USMA76]

What the hell is Fredi thinking?

Fredi and thinking in the same sentence = oxymoron.

[Braves1976]

Damn the umpire cost Simmons a double! Maybe even a game winning double.

[USMA76]

Damn the umpire cost Simmons a double! Maybe even a game winning double.

Damn the luck on that play.

[Heyward]

JACE PETERSONNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[The Chosen One]

Woooooo

[Braves1976]

Peterson walks us off! Way to go kid!

[mfree80]

Dang umpires always hurting the Braves.

[thethe]

I freaken love Jace Peterson!!!!

[The Chosen One]

What the hell is Fredi thinking?

#Winning

[Braves1976]

I love the celebration by Peterson after the game winning hit. :)

[thethe]

Thats a team chemistry building type of win.

Kind of felt that like special walkoff that Jason had in his rookie season where he was jumping all over the place.

[jpx7]

Great mentality and swing by Peterson.

[bravesnumberone]

Great piece of hitting. :elefant:

[UNCBlue012]

Yay!

[Braves1976]

Yay!

You needed the win, Peterson delivered it for ya. :)

[Braves1976]

In other Braves news (minors), Man-Ban has given up 1 hit and has 5 K's through 3 innings for Gwinnett. Perez is 2-2 with a double and homerun, now hitting .296 for the G-Braves. Hunter is also 1-2 with an RBI double. Castro is 2-2 also as G-Braves lead 3-0.

[cajunrevenge]

Miller still hasn't given up more than 2 runs in any start. Braves only lost 1 game he started so far.

[thethe]

This team has a lot of room for improvement as the season progresses. Folty/Perez/Wisler/Banuelos could be an effective 4/5 combination. We all know the top 3 are great pitchers. Peraza is going to be up soon I think. Its not going to be fair for Jace but I think we are going to see him play every day at multiple positions with Peraza getting the bulk of the AB's at 2B.

If they can get something out of catcher the rest of the way I could see them sneaking into WC contention come 9/1.

[thethe]

Andrelton Simmons ‏@Andrelton 9m9 minutes ago
That was awesome!!! Show some love to Jace . And let's make sure he creates a twitter account @Braves

[UNCBlue012]

You needed the win, Peterson delivered it for ya. :) We've been watching together since I was a kid and since i couldn't be there with her, I'm so glad they came through. So happy!

[jpx7]

Peraza is going to be up soon I think. Its not going to be fair for Jace but I think we are going to see him play every day at multiple positions with Peraza getting the bulk of the AB's at 2B.

I really hope not: I see no reason to rush Peraza, and—besides enjoying watching Jace Peterson play—I think it's important to see if he can be a viable contributor as a big-league second-baseman. If the answer is "yes" with the bat, given his glove, the Braves will have a lot of options—and that's even if they adjudge that Peraza is the long-term answer at second-base.

I also think it'd be a big mistake—and hope the crusty old Cerberus concurs—to be beguiled by "contention" come late June and July. Squeeze whatever asset-value you can out of Lord BABip, the Gemini Johnson, the Pitching Panino, Ne Plus Ultra, and Johnny Tats, (along with Callaspo, if anyone wants him) at the trade-deadline, then let some of the AAA-level "system guys" make a push or get off the proverbial doo-machine.

I don't think MLB's like the NBA, wherein being a youthful seventh- or eight-seed can be a key part of the developmental curve, even when said team inevitably washes out in the first-round against superior competition. If the Braves are serious about their ballyhooed #2017 agenda, they need assets for the pipeline and big-league appearances for guys who might be valuable ancillary pieces of fringy bench guys. Then, in 2016, you let some of these young, potential impact-players wet their feet over a full (or mostly full: gotta watch that arb clock) season.

[Braves1976]

We've been watching together since I was a kid and since i couldn't be there with her, I'm so glad they came through. So happy!

Cool :)

[thethe]

I really hope not: I see no reason to rush Peraza, and—besides enjoying watching Jace Peterson play—I think it's important to see if he can be a viable contributor as big-league second-baseman. If the answer is "yes" with the bat, given his glove, the Braves will have a lotof options—even if they adjudge that Peraza is the long-term answer at second-base.

I also think it'd be a big mistake—and hope the crusty old Cerberus concurs—to be beguiled by "contention" come late June and July. Squeeze whatever asset-value you can out of Lord BABip, the Gemini Johnson, the Pitching Panino, Ne Plus Ultra, and Johnny Tats, (along with Callaspo, if anyone wants him) at the trade-deadline, then let some of the AAA-level "system guys" make a push or get off the proverbial doo-machine.

I don't think MLB's like NBA, wherein being a youthful seventh- or eight-seed can be a key part of the developmental curve, even when one inevitably washes out in the first-round. If the Braves are serious about their ballyhooed #2017 agenda, they need assets for the pipeline and big-league appearances for guys who might be valuable ancillary pieces of fringy bench guys. Then, in 2016, you let some of these young, potential impact players wet their feet over a full (or mostly full: gotta watch that arb clock) season.

I don't think they are going to make any acquisition unless it impacts the 2017 season. I just see the Braves calling up Peraza/Perez and maybe picking up a relief pitcher at the deadline. The farm is very strong right now where I don't think they really need to trade the vets right now for C+ prospects. The picks this year and the international signings are going to help replenish the system for the next wave. The wave about to hit in the next 1-3 years is really strong.

[thethe]

BTW, I'm not trading Shelby Miller right now. Even without his best stuff he battled and gave the team exactly what they needed. This is a future anchor. I would consider a contract extension before trading him.

[CrimsonCowboy]

http://i.imgur.com/P6x0U.gif

[jpx7]

I don't think they are going to make any acquisition unless it impacts the 2017 season. I just see the Braves calling up Peraza/Perez and maybe picking up a relief pitcher at the deadline. The farm is very strong right now where I don't think they really need to trade the vets right now for C+ prospects. The picks this year and the international signings are going to help replenish the system for the next wave. The wave about to hit in the next 1-3 years is really strong.

It's never strong enough. They need to go "all in" on the rebuilding-process after the moves made this past offseason. That's why sturg, I, and others—justifiably so—were advocating so hard for trading Kimbrel once the Braves traded three of their four best hitters from 2013-14 run. And, even though that latter trade was probably the clearest win of the offseason, given the Braves organizational trajectory, nonetheless I think it'd be a massive misstep to rest on their laurels (such as they are) and "go for it" to any extent this season. Trade the short-term veterans—basically anyone over 30 without a Greek surname—and if the team makes the wild-card anyways, that's mad bonus.

[chop2chip]

BTW, I'm not trading Shelby Miller right now. Even without his best stuff he battled and gave the team exactly what they needed. This is a future anchor. I would consider a contract extension before trading him.

@ESPNStatsInfo: Shelby Miller: 2 ER or fewer in 9 straight starts to open season; Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz never did that to start season in ATL uniform

[thethe]

It's never strong enough. They need to go "all in" on the rebuilding-process after the moves made this past offseason. That's why sturg, I, and others—justifiably so—were advocating so hard for trading Kimbrel once the Braves traded three of their four best hitters from 2013-14 run. And, even though that latter trade was probably the clearest win of the offseason, given the Braves organizational trajectory, nonetheless I think it'd be a massive misstep to rest on their laurels (such as they are) and "go for it" to any extent this season. Trade the short-term veterans—basically anyone over 30 without a Greek surname—and if the team makes the wild-card anyways, that's mad bonus.

I don't think you can just ignore the long term impact of a playoff appearance could have on the finances/valuation of the team. That stuff matters though not as much as the talent in the pipeline. Braves could look at that the potential future financial gain outweighs the impact of getting 1-2 C+ prospects. If the fanbase is excited about a potential world series team going into 2017 then the possibliities are endless for profits. A playoff birth in 2015 can be the start of that. Its not like they are going to have to give up anything of significance for a relief pitcher.

[thethe]

@ESPNStatsInfo: Shelby Miller: 2 ER or fewer in 9 straight starts to open season; Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz never did that to start season in ATL uniform

There is just no need to ever consider trading Shelby Miller. This isn't coming out of nowhere. This is a former top 10 prospect and is still crazy young.

[chop2chip]

It's never strong enough. They need to go "all in" on the rebuilding-process after the moves made this past offseason. That's why sturg, I, and others—justifiably so—were advocating so hard for trading Kimbrel once the Braves traded three of their four best hitters from 2013-14 run. And, even though that latter trade was probably the clearest win of the offseason, given the Braves organizational trajectory, nonetheless I think it'd be a massive misstep to rest on their laurels (such as they are) and "go for it" to any extent this season. Trade the short-term veterans—basically anyone over 30 without a Greek surname—and if the team makes the wild-card anyways, that's mad bonus.
Especially Grilli and Johnson. With how those two are pitching we might get a couple of solid prospects for them. Just think if Carpenter and Shreve can get us Man Ban, we might be able to get a similar prospect for either of those guys.

[chop2chip]

There is just no need to ever consider trading Shelby Miller. This isn't coming out of nowhere. This is a former top 10 prospect and is still crazy young.
I don't think you make phone calls selling the guy off, but if a team like Boston gets desperate in July for pitching and offers a great package then you have to be willing to listen.

[WaitingFor2017]

Good win, but this game was another example in which Fredi doesn't know how to handle extra inning games when it comes to the bullpen. He could've easily sent out Johnson and Masset for a second inning but chose not to since Johnson only threw 12 pitches and Masset only threw 10. Had the game continued, he was left with Thomas, Cahill, using a still sick Wood or burning Folty/Perez for their next start. I don't like any of those options for succeeding. He was also down to just one bench player being the backup catcher before the 11th inning ended. Thankfully, Jace wanted to go home.

[thethe]

I don't think you make phone calls selling the guy off, but if a team like Boston gets desperate in July for pitching and offers a great package then you have to be willing to listen.

To me there is nothing more valueable than a #1 starting pitcher if you are a team thats ultimate goal is to win a world series.

The trade would have to be so over the top that I doubt any team would actually make the offer.

[jpx7]

I don't think you can just ignore the long term impact of a playoff appearance could have on the finances/valuation of the team. That stuff matters though not as much as the talent in the pipeline. Braves could look at that the potential future financial gain outweighs the impact of getting 1-2 C+ prospects. If the fanbase is excited about a potential world series team going into 2017 then the possibliities are endless for profits. A playoff birth in 2015 can be the start of that. Its not like they are going to have to give up anything of significance for a relief pitcher.

I think you're both overestimating the likely fiscal gains from a potential playoff berth in 2015 (as, obviously, deciding to "go for it" in June/July assures nothing tangible), and underestimating what some of these veterans may net from desperate teams; but instead of typing anymore myself, I'll simply refer you to this:


Especially Grilli and Johnson. With how those two are pitching we might get a couple of solid prospects for them. Just think if Carpenter and Shreve can get us Man Ban, we might be able to get a similar prospect for either of those guys.

[thethe]

I understand your point and its more consistent with where the Braves are headed. I just think it needs to be considered. There needs to be a big buzz going into 2017 and you are basically banking on 2016 to be a playoff year. I don't think the team should go into the new stadium not having been the postseason in the two years prior.

[chop2chip]

To me there is nothing more valueable than a #1 starting pitcher if you are a team thats ultimate goal is to win a world series.

The trade would have to be so over the top that I doubt any team would actually make the offer.
An all star position player under control trumps the volatility of pitchers.

Kiley McDaniel said it best in his prospect rankings. He said when he has a pitching prospect and a hitting prospect graded the same (ie a FV of 60) then the tie ALWAYS goes to the position player because of injury risk.

I understand your point and I agree with you for the most part. I just think I am a bit more receptive to what the "right offer" actually is.

[The Chosen One]

Scioscia left in CJ Wilson after 100+ pitches against Napoli who already hit a homer in the game and it's a L-R matchup.

Napoli just homered again, and Scioscia has left in Wilson at 113 pitches to face one more lefty. Wilson just got hit in the leg ona grounder and was limping. He's still in the game for ANOTHER Batter.


----

Could you imagine the profanities on this board if Fredi even did half of this sequence? This is the beloved Mike Scioscia...

[jpx7]

Scioscia left in CJ Wilson after 100+ pitches against Napoli who already hit a homer in the game and it's a L-R matchup.

Napoli just homered again, and Scioscia has left in Wilson at 113 pitches to face one more lefty. Wilson just got hit in the leg ona grounder and was limping. He's still in the game for ANOTHER Batter.


----

Could you imagine the profanities on this board if Fredi even did half of this sequence? This is the beloved Mike Scioscia*...

Wilson strikes out Holt to extinguish the threat; Fredi, ever the student of the game, takes note :FrediGreen:.

*Never been a big fan of Scioscia, myself.

[Heyward]

I don't think you make phone calls selling the guy off, but if a team like Boston gets desperate in July for pitching and offers a great package then you have to be willing to listen.

Elite SP is what wins in October.

There's maybe 10-15 legit aces or so in all of baseball, not sure i'd trade him.

Not saying he is close to in that class but top tier SP's are pretty much as valuable as it gets.

[The Chosen One]

And Wilson strikes out Holt to extinguish the threat; Fredi, ever the student of the game, takes note :FrediGreen:.

*Never been a big fan of Scioscia, myself.

Just sayin'...


Leaves in Wilson after 100 pitches.
Leaves in pitcher to face batter that already homered against him earlier in the game, at over 100 pitches.
Leaves in pitcher after go ahead 2-run homerun, at over 100 pitches.
Leaves in pitcher after he gets hit by a ball and noticeably limps, after 100 pitches.
Leaves in pitcher who has nothing left to face one more batter because it's a L-L matchup, at 115 pitches.


Scioscia is a guy people like Zito have a hard-on for to be the manager of our team, guy hasn't won a world series in 13 years and his team gets a much better payroll budget than ours.

God have mercy on Fredi on this board if he even did half of these.


At least we know Fredi pulls guys out usually around 90-100 pitches.
We know he's going to do LOOGY-ROOGY matchups as much as he can even if splits state otherwise.
We know he likes going to his bullpen sooner than later.
It's a miracle if he lets any of his pitchers make it past 105 pitches, let alone 118.
Pitcher gets hurt, still leaves him in. Everyone points to Teheran a few weeks ago, but Fredi has taken out pitchers whov'e been injured plenty.

[Braves1976]

Didn't Hawk say he would be at today's game? If so, he went to a good one and got to see a walk off Braves win.

[Heyward]

Didn't Hawk say he would be at today's game? If so, he went to a good one and got to see a walk off Braves win.

Yes, he said Sat/Sun.

[Braves1976]

I thought I'd point out that Jace Peterson's 5 DRS at second base coming into today is the second best in the Majors among second baseman. That isn't a surprise, what is a surprise to me is that Dee Gordon has a 10 DRS so far this year which is tops among all second basemen. I really didn't think Gordon would hit as well as he has thus far nor play such great defense at second. But even with him doing so the Marlins are still a mess.

[Runnin]

.500 BABY!!!
http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA3LzA1LzBhL2V4Y2l0ZWRiYWJ5LjlhZWY3LmdpZg pwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/f01f5d34/cc5/excited-baby.gif

[zitothebrave]

I understand your point and its more consistent with where the Braves are headed. I just think it needs to be considered. There needs to be a big buzz going into 2017 and you are basically banking on 2016 to be a playoff year. I don't think the team should go into the new stadium not having been the postseason in the two years prior.

Why?

Pirates opened PNC despite not being in th eplayoffs for 8 years, Philly had missed the playoffs for a decade before moving into CBP, Tigers went into Comerica not making the playoffs for 5 years. Brewers hadn't been in th eplayoffs since the 80s when Miller park opened up. Marlins were just shy of a decade from their last playoff birth before opening their new stadium. With new stadium boosts you don't need to be going into it with a winning team. Now you do need to go in with a little excitement though. I'm thinking if he's not extented getting Strasberg. Would be a horrible baseball move, but would probably pay for itself in about 2 years.