6/1/15: GDT - Atlanta Braves @ Arizona Diamondbacks

[Garmel]

Braves
1. Jace Peterson (L) 2B
2. Andrelton Simmons (R) SS
3. Freddie Freeman (L) 1B
4. Nick Markakis (L) RF
5. Juan Uribe (R) 3B
6. A.J. Pierzynski (L) C
7. Jonny Gomes (R) LF
8. Todd Cunningham (S) CF
9. Alex Wood (R) P

Diamondbacks
1. Ender Inciarte (L) LF
2. A.J. Pollock (R) CF
3. Paul Goldschmidt (R) 1B
4. Mark Trumbo (R) RF
5. Aaron Hill (R) 3B
6. Jarrod Saltalamacchia (S) C
7. Chris Owings (R) 2B
8. Nick Ahmed (R) SS
9. Archie Bradley (R) P

[Garmel]

Maybin's out with a groin pull. Supposedly, it's not serious.

[Braves1976]

Maybin's out with a groin pull. Supposedly, it's not serious.

Right. But thanks to EY Jr. wasting a spot on our roster it also means starting Gomes again tonight vs a righty.

[jpx7]

Right. But thanks to EY Jr. wasting a spot on our roster it also means starting Gomes again tonight vs a righty.

At least Señor Ankle-Breaker isn't starting. Bright sides.

[thethe]

Right. But thanks to EY Jr. wasting a spot on our roster it also means starting Gomes again tonight vs a righty.

Paging Eury Perez!

[Garmel]

Right. But thanks to EY Jr. wasting a spot on our roster it also means starting Gomes again tonight vs a righty.

Yep. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a solution to this problem until KJ gets well or we make a trade.

[Braves1976]

Yep. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a solution to this problem until KJ gets well or we make a trade.

There's a solution, plenty of better options in AAA IMO. We just don't seem to want to drop EY Jr. at this point for some reason. Maybe holding out hope that they can trade him later but I don't see that happening.

[ramadon101]

Yep. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a solution to this problem until KJ gets well or we make a trade.

The aforementioned Eury Perez would do just fine (with Cunny moving over to a corner). Or Peraza. Or Mallex Smith. Anyone but EY.

[Braves1976]

The aforementioned Eury Perez would do just fine (with Cunny moving over to a corner). Or Peraza. Or Mallex Smith. Anyone but EY.

Yea, lots of better options IMO. Anyone but EY sounds good to me. :)

[nsacpi]

Expecting a huge game from Gomes.

[Garmel]

Paging Eury Perez!

Possible. He has great speed. However, a .280 AAA with little power usually translates to around a .220-.240 hitter in the Majors. He's better than EY for a backup(that's not saying much) but he's not a starter.

[nsacpi]

Yea, lots of better options IMO. Anyone but EY sounds good to me. :)

Cedric Hunter

[Braves1976]

Expecting a huge game from Gomes.

Splits be damned eh? :)

[Braves1976]

Possible. He has great speed. However, a .280 AAA with little power usually translates to around a .220-.240 hitter in the Majors. He's better than EY for a backup(that's not saying much) but he's not a starter.

Eury Perez is a career .304 hitter including this year's stats in the minors, with a career OBP of .364. Plus if you're going to use this type of argument why is Cunningham even here given his career .279 average and OPS around .700?

[Braves1976]

MLBTR: "In spite of a managerial change, the Brewers continue to lose ground and appear to be among the game’s most obvious summer sellers. Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports looks at the team’s stock of talent, suggesting that it would make sense for the club to deal away catcher Jonathan Lucroy if it chooses to move star center fielder Carlos Gomez. But Passan notes that there are not many contending teams in dire need of a backstop, which could limit his market — in spite of his incredibly cheap contract. I’d suggest that Lucroy’s limited action and lack of production in the early going is an even greater barrier to a summer deal. As for his prospective market, the Tigers and Angels look like teams that could reap huge benefits from a real upgrade behind the dish, while plenty of other clubs would be involved given Lucroy’s extended, cheap control."

The Braves weren't mentioned yet we reportedly asked about him not long ago.

[jimsnores]

Wish Peterson would take advantage of a wide open left side. Easy bunt hit, or double with a grounder. Not being a power hitter, there's no reason he shouldn't develop that in his game and at least force them to abandon the shift. (I hate shifts).

[nsacpi]

Splits be damned eh? :)

I was thinking more defensively. He's got a lot of ground to cover. Ball flies around in that ballpark.

[Garmel]

Eury Perez is a career .304 hitter including this year's stats in the minors, with a career OBP of .364. Plus if you're going to use this type of argument why is Cunningham even here given his career .279 average and OPS around .700?

Yeah, I was off about 20 points. However, if you look at what Perez has done in limited action in the majors is at .174. Cunningham has hit better than that in the Majors. Cunningham is here because he was the only solution we had at the time.

[Braves1976]

Yeah, I was off about 20 points. However, if you look at what Perez has done in limited action in the majors is at .174. Cunningham has hit better than that in the Majors. Cunningham is here because he was the only solution we had at the time.

That is super small sample size and that's over a three year period too (only 23 AB's total and no more than 10 in any given season). I am not saying he'll prove starter material, I am saying that isn't enough to make an argument.

[Braves1976]

I was thinking more defensively. He's got a lot of ground to cover. Ball flies around in that ballpark.

You should of said you meant offense, haha he got a double vs a righty. Is that his first double vs a righty this year?

[Braves1976]

Haha again, Wood does it himself. :)

[nsacpi]

Alexander

[Garmel]

Nice hit, Alex.

[NinersSBChamps]

Lol. Alex knows the chances the offense scores him a run is pretty unlikely.

[CrimsonCowboy]

This is going pretty well so far

[Braves1976]

Good job by Simmons making them pay after they walked Peterson to face him.

[thethe]

This is going pretty well so far

Agreed. I guess you can single a team to death!

[thethe]

You could tell this was coming. Every out they hit into was hit hard.

[Braves1976]

I can see why this kid has a ERA over 5 coming in, damn it Freeman way to kill a rally. Was that even a strike? Looked like might of been low.

[thethe]

I can see why this kid has a ERA over 5 coming in, damn it Freeman way to kill a rally.

Both of his outs have been hit hard.

[thewupk]

horrible ab there

[Braves1976]

Both of his outs have been hit hard.

Everything is being hit hard off this kid so far.

[thethe]

horrible ab there

He hit the ball hard. Freeman is our best hitter and we rely on him to drive in runners in bunches. I can't get too upset that he hit a line drive.

[thethe]

Keep it going Alex.

[Braves1976]

He hit the ball hard. Freeman is our best hitter and we rely on him to drive in runners in bunches. I can't get too upset that he hit a line drive.

Given that shift on him and that he can bunt, I'd asked him to bunt there as it's an easy run if he did.

[Julio3000]

Nice work with the shutdown inning after getting the lead.

[thewupk]

He hit the ball hard. Freeman is our best hitter and we rely on him to drive in runners in bunches. I can't get too upset that he hit a line drive.

He didn't hit a line drive there, it was a ground ball. He pulled a ball on the outter half right into the shift. Freeman is a really good hitter. I don't see why someone like him just wouldn't shoot that to left and get 2 easy RBI.

[NinersSBChamps]

He hit the ball hard. Freeman is our best hitter and we rely on him to drive in runners in bunches. I can't get too upset that he hit a line drive.

Freeman rolled a grounder to first base on a 3-1 count. The ball wasn't hit hard.

[thethe]

Given that shift on him and that he can bunt, I'd asked him to bunt there as it's an easy run if he did.

If i'm the opposition and Freeman is thinking about bunting with the bases loaded then I've already won.

[Braves1976]

If i'm the opposition and Freeman is thinking about bunting with the bases loaded then I've already won.

I could care less what they think, we are leading 3-0 and that would make it 4-0 Braves.

That said, that foul ball Uribe just hit was a hard hit ball. Freeman's not so much.

[Garmel]

Damn. I don't want to see Juan hurt.

[USMA76]

If i'm the opposition and Freeman is thinking about bunting with the bases loaded then I've already won.

If Freeman bunting with the bases loaded is a win for the opposition, then grounding to the first baseman to end the rally would be cause for a parade 8^).

[thethe]

That had to hurt...

[yeezus]

yikes, bradley is trash right now. do your jerb wood.

[jpx7]

Both of his outs have been hit hard.

I missed his first PA, but Freeman's second out was far from "hit hard".

[Braves1976]

Damn. I don't want to see Juan hurt.

I agree and I am not sure I'd said this a week ago. Sorry Uribe I guess it took a few homers for us to like you. :)

[yeezus]

He hit the ball hard. Freeman is our best hitter and we rely on him to drive in runners in bunches. I can't get too upset that he hit a line drive.

I'm not an advocate of him bunting (and I think how easy it would be is pretty overstated), but he hit it hard...right into the shift. I mean, the opposition is totally cool with that, too.

[Garmel]

I agree and I am not sure I'd said this a week ago. Sorry Uribe I guess it took a few homers for us to like you. :)

If he keeps playing well all will be forgiven. :)

[Braves1976]

Dang, Uribe got hit by that pitch three times!

[jpx7]

"[Fredi Gonzalez] said [Johnny Gomes] looks like a neanderthal type, but he's been impressed with his knowledge of the game and sense of humor."

So Gomes is the one who looks like the prehistoric dunce ... :FrediGreen:

[Julio3000]

"[Fredi Gonzalez] said [Johnny Gomes] looks like a neanderthal type, but he's been impressed with his knowledge of the game and sense of humor."

So Gomes is the one who looks like the prehistoric dunce ... :FrediGreen:

I would like for Fredi to tell Gomes he looks like a homo neanderthalis.

[Braves1976]

Wood had a slow start last year too, it was just in the bullpen. I think some here overreacted to his slow start this year, plus if you consider the bad defense that cost him a higher ERA a number of games earlier this year. All that considered he'd have a ERA under 3.00 right now just like last year at this point (and that's including the slow start).

Wood is also helping himself at the plate more so far this year, hitting .267.

[Julio3000]

Meanwhile, Homo Erectus is cruising.

[weso1]

I just don't get why some Braves fans are so quick to trade Alex Wood. I guess it's the weird delivery, but damn... dude has been impressive.

[thethe]

I just don't get why some Braves fans are so quick to trade Alex Wood. I guess it's the weird delivery, but damn... dude has been impressive.

Nobody wants to to trade him based on his ability. Just worry about sustainability with an unorthodox delivery. I think the Braves should be able to demand a young impact bat for him. Wood is borderline ace material.

[weso1]

Meanwhile, Homo Erectus is cruising.

I wanted to thank this post, but apparently we have a wait time on this board, which I knew about, but I remembered right now. In principle I can't thank this post now.

[Braves1976]

I just don't get why some Braves fans are so quick to trade Alex Wood. I guess it's the weird delivery, but damn... dude has been impressive.

I think it's a combination of underrating him (esp. when he was off his game) and concern about injury due to his delivery.

[jpx7]

Meanwhile, Homo Erectus is cruising.

See, the set-up was maybe a tad wanting, but the stutter-step punch-line was more than worth it.

[Garmel]

Stupid shift. However, I'm willing to bet Jace will make teams pay for doing it.

[Braves1976]

Nobody wants to to trade him based on his ability. Just worry about sustainability with an unorthodox delivery. I think the Braves should be able to demand a young impact bat for him. Wood is borderline ace material.

I disagree based on the timing of the trade ideas and how various posters have ranked Wood as a starter, though I think what you're saying is partly true. But speaking for everyone is almost always wrong.

[Braves1976]

Stupid shift. However, I'm willing to bet Jace will make teams pay for doing it.

I'd like to see Jace bunt a few time here and there, he has enough speed to beat out some bunt hits.

[Julio3000]

Nobody wants to to trade him based on his ability. Just worry about sustainability with an unorthodox delivery. I think the Braves should be able to demand a young impact bat for him. Wood is borderline ace material.

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/poinsett/null_zps4696d5b4.jpg

[thethe]

I disagree based on the timing of the trade ideas and how various posters have ranked Wood as a starter, though I think what you're saying is partly true. But speaking for everyone is almost always wrong.

Fair point.

[Braves1976]

The camera angle made that look long gone and it wasn't even close. I hate it when they do that.

[USMA76]

Nobody wants to to trade him based on his ability. Just worry about sustainability with an unorthodox delivery. I think the Braves should be able to demand a young impact bat for him. Wood is borderline ace material.

I like him but I'd be reluctant to call him an ace (or borderline ace) until he can start beating plus .500 teams with some regularity. IIRC he's beaten one team with a winning record this year. (That said, I understand the flip side is that he's going to get less run support against better teams.) On a championship caliber team, I see him more as a solid #3 type of guy. The fact that he's left handed is a nice plus.

[Braves1976]

I like him but I'd be reluctant to call him an ace (or borderline ace) until he can start beating plus .500 teams with some regularity. IIRC he's beaten one team with a winning record this year. (That said, I understand the flip side is that he's going to get less run support against better teams.) On a championship caliber team, I see him more as a solid #3 type of guy. The fact that he's left handed is a nice plus.

Did you see how crappy his run support was last year? That had a ton to do with him not winning a lot more games. He certainly pitched well enough to do so a lot last year.

[Braves1976]

Great job Simmons again. Good to see him getting a lot of hits tonight.

[Garmel]

Simmons is hitting smart.

[USMA76]

Did you see how crappy his run support was last year? That had a ton to do with him not winning a lot more games. He certainly pitched well enough to do so a lot last year.

No kidding, we wasted about three years of solid starting pitching in the last couple of months of last year for Wood, Santana, Harang, and Minor. As soon as one of our starters gave up a run or two, he pretty much knew he was done. That's why this years approach is such a breath of fresh air.

[thethe]

Great job Simmons again. Good to see him getting a lot of hits tonight.

Hits were up the middle and opposite field. Beautiful...

[thethe]

Wow...

[weso1]

Joe Simpson is clearly drunk tonight. I mean aburdly so. Hats off to Chip for dealing with it. And i'm not kidding.

[jimsnores]

Shift that!

[thethe]

And that's why I don't care if Freeman isn't thinking about bunting.

[Garmel]

Freddie said, "**** that shift".

[yeezus]

THERE HE IS

[Braves1976]

No kidding, we wasted about three years of solid starting pitching in the last couple of months of last year for Wood, Santana, Harang, and Minor. As soon as one of our starters gave up a run or two, he pretty much knew he was done. That's why this years approach is such a breath of fresh air.

Yea, but Wood got the worst run support on the team by far IIRC.

Freeman crushed that ball, much better AB there obviously. This kid for Arizona doesn't look ready to me.

[yeezus]

Freddie's got Gomes giving hugs.

[thethe]

Feel bad for Bradley. Most of the outs are hard.

[bravesnumberone]

Freddie pissed all over that one. Has Markakis reached the warning track yet?

[Braves1976]

Uribe hit that hard, just to the wrong part of the ballpark.

[weso1]

I respect Chip Caray a lot more right now. I don't want to Narc Joe Simpson as he seems like a good dude, but I have to be honest, Joe is ****ing drunk.

[jpx7]

Joe Simpson is clearly drunk tonight. I mean aburdly so. Hats off to Chip for dealing with it. And i'm not kidding.

I'm genuinely and massively disappointed to miss that—I'm stuck with the home-field Gila River Jokers.

[jpx7]

Freddie pissed all over that one. Has Markakis reached the warning track yet?

Once?

[USMA76]

Freddie pissed all over that one. Has Markakis reached the warning track yet?

Markakis only sees the warning track when he's "chasing down" a deep fly ball to right field.

[yeezus]

"ASCHWARZ" looks too much like AUSCHWITZ

[bravesnumberone]

"ASCHWARZ" looks too much like AUSCHWITZ

I read it as Ass Warts. :Bowman:

[jpx7]

I respect Chip Caray a lot more right now. I don't want to Narc Joe Simpson as he seems like a good dude, but I have to be honest, Joe is ****ing drunk.

Probably just got too much sun.

Plus, it's good payback for all those times Chip got too much snow.

[Braves1976]

Markasis only sees the warning track when he's "chasing down" a deep fly ball to right field.

Ouch, that was cold. :)

Seriously, Aoki has more power than Markakis at this point--sorry to say.

[thethe]

Could CB have made a play on that?

[Braves1976]

Why didn't AJ throw the damn ball?!

[USMA76]

Well that sucks. Should've gotten Salty out...smh.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Uh, A.J.???

[drewdat]

Could CB have made a play on that?

No, he is not entered into the game and would have been ejected.

Hope this helps.

[CyYoung31]

Thanks, AJ.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Cost Atlanta a run.

[thethe]

That runs on AJ. Bull****.

[bravesnumberone]

That was just pathetic. I learned how to properly execute a run down when I was 11 ****ing years old.

[USMA76]

The brain fart by AJ only costs us a single run.

[Braves1976]

That run is unearned because that should've been third out, AJ's screw up cost Wood and team. Great play by Simmons to get the DP on that sac-fly though to get out of it.

AJ's already bad DRS got worse than inning.

[jimsnores]

Yep. Cost Alex a run for sure. Nice play by Cunningham/Simmons, though.

[weso1]

Why didn't he give it back to eerrrriiibbee? lmao. Hats off to Chip for a professional job tonight.

[jimsnores]

That run is unearned because that should've been third out, AJ's screw up cost Wood and team. Great play by Simmons to get the DP on that sac-fly though to get out of it.

Did they give him an error? If not, it's technically earned, though it shouldn't have been.

[jsebe10]

That was just pathetic. I learned how to properly execute a run down when I was 11 ****ing years old.

It's cool. He blooped a single into RF yesterday in the 9th, making him 1 for his last 19...hes bought himself 4 starts in a row.

[cajunrevenge]

Andrelton has found a new way to amaze this year with these heads up cutoff throws. I wouldn't even blame Tomas for that, it was a ridiculouslyrics fast spin and throw on the money or else he would have been safe.

[Braves1976]

How are they charging that run as earned against Wood? They pulled this crap his last game too after changing an error to a hit. They can't this time as that would've been the third out minus AJ's screw up.

[USMA76]

The boxscore is showing the run as earned. I guess mental errors don't figure into ERA like physical ones do?

[Braves1976]

Did they give him an error? If not, it's technically earned, though it shouldn't have been.

If so they pulled the same crap last game. These are not earned runs, Wood's ERA should be under 3.00...

[Braves1976]

The boxscore is showing the run as earned. I guess mental errors don't figure into ERA like physical ones do?

Yea, that's bull****.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Only a fielder's choice. No error

[Millwood1Hitter]

Alex Wood gave up a run, clearly not an ACE, trade em now while he's got value....Ryan Madsen anyone?

[CrimsonCowboy]

Hey look! Another Jace Peterson hit

[thethe]

What a find in Jace.

[Braves1976]

Peterson with another RBI double. :)

[jimsnores]

That's what I'm talking about, Jace!

[USMA76]

If so they pulled the same crap last game. These are not earned runs, Wood's ERA should be under 3.00...

You're right. Changing the error by Uribe (in his first game with us against the Dodgers) to a hit was complete horse[bleep].

[weso1]

I respect Chip and Joe a lot more after tonight.

[Julio3000]

Criminy, is that Oliver Perez?

[USMA76]

What a find in Jace.


You're right--we appear to have landed a gem.

[jimsnores]

Freddie loves him some Chase Field.

[thethe]

You're right--we appear to have landed a gem.

If he wasn't jerked around at the start of the year his overall numbers would look even better.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Padres remind me of us from last year, and BJ hasn't even had a chance to stink up the joint yet!

[Runnin]

Ouch, that was cold. :)

Seriously, Aoki has more power than Markakis at this point--sorry to say.

Markakis's lack of power is about as important as Fredi's lack of hair.

[USMA76]

Freddie says (in his best Jersey accent) "I got 'yer shift right here."

[Millwood1Hitter]

If he wasn't jerked around at the start of the year his overall numbers would look even better.

Fredi logic: "you don't know what you got until others don't pan out, or errr....John Hart tells you to play the damn youngster. He obviously knew what he was getting"

[Julio3000]

Sitting Freddie for a game was absolutely the right move. Well played, sir.

:FrediConfident:

[bravesnumberone]

Lol, Joe is effed up....

[USMA76]

Markakis's lack of power is about as important as Fredi's lack of hair.

It does provide recurring message board fodder...

[sturg33]

How are they charging that run as earned against Wood? They pulled this crap his last game too after changing an error to a hit. They can't this time as that would've been the third out minus AJ's screw up.

You get a little too caught up in the day-to-day scoring... It all balances out over time and it doesn't make much of a difference by season's end.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Markakis's lack of power is about as important as Fredi's lack of hair.

It's what I like to refer to as "powerless leadership." He's doing a good job.

Which to think about it, that pretty much describes Fredi with the exception of leadership.

[Braves1976]

Markakis's lack of power is about as important as Fredi's lack of hair.

For how long he's locked up and how much he cost I'd say that is mostly nonsense.

[sturg33]

I've only got the game on in the background, but what is Joe saying that is so bad?

[Julio3000]

Lol, Joe is effed up....

I'm really hoping for a fistfight in the booth and a dual trip to rehab.

[Pugfan]

Joe Trash talking Oliver Perez,lol.

[thethe]

For how long he's locked up and how much he cost I'd say that is mostly nonsense.

Would you take Nick at this production for the whole c9ntract?

[sturg33]

Would you take Nick at this production for the whole c9ntract?

No. Would you??

[thethe]

Nice efficient outing so far.

[thethe]

No. Would you??

Around a 400 on base percentage. Yeah I'd take it every day of the week.

[USMA76]

Would you take Nick at this production for the whole c9ntract?

Nick is a professional hitter, has been a nice addition to the team and plays a decent RF. The problem is we all remember the excellence with which Heyward played that position. Right now (under the heading of "mixed emotions") $11M/year for a guy with a sub-.750 OPS does appear to be a bit pricey.

[Julio3000]

The .385 OBP is awesome. The .052 ISO is scary from a corner OF.

[sturg33]

Around a 400 on base percentage. Yeah I'd take it every day of the week.

I mean - he's projecting to be a 2-3 WAR players.. OK I guess, but we could easily find better and I'd rather have the money

And that's assuming he doesn't decline. This should be his BEST year he gives us

[Braves1976]

Would you take Nick at this production for the whole c9ntract?

If he keeps it up I rather keep Maybin than Markakis heading into the new ballpark to be honest. I don't see Markakis not declining the final few years of the deal and his defense in RF has been declining already. But since we have Markakis I think you'll see Maybin let go or traded at some point (likely traded IMO). We'll need to put someone with more power in LF given what Markakis lacks (actually in RF since Markakis needs to be moved to LF soon IMO).

Note: Maybin has a .750 OPS with us and 7 stolen bases, Markakis had a .731 OPS coming into tonight.

[thethe]

I mean - he's projecting to be a 2-3 WAR players.. OK I guess, but we could easily find better and I'd rather have the money

And that's assuming he doesn't decline. This should be his BEST year he gives us

I think regression is likely but so far he is giving us what we are paying him.

[Braves1976]

The .385 OBP is awesome. The .052 ISO is scary from a corner OF.

I don't expect the .385 OBP to last even through this season much less the last few years of the contract. Hopefully I am wrong.

[sturg33]

If he keeps it up I rather keep Maybin than Markakis heading into the new ballpark to be honest. I don't see Markakis not declining the final few years of the deal and his defense in RF has been declining already. But since we have Markakis I think you'll see Maybin let go or traded at some point (likely traded IMO). We'll need to put someone with more power in LF given what Markakis lacks (actually in RF since Markakis needs to be moved to LF soon IMO).

Note: Maybin has a .750 OPS with us and 7 stolen bases, Markakis had a .731 OPS coming into tonight.

I'm also shocked at how slow Markakis is. I thought he had decent speed but he is a turtle.

[thethe]

If he keeps it up I rather keep Maybin than Markakis heading into the new ballpark to be honest. I don't see Markakis not declining the final few years of the deal and his defense in RF has been declining already. But since we have Markakis I think you'll see Maybin let go or traded at some point (likely traded IMO). We'll need to put someone with more power in LF given what Markakis lacks (actually in RF since Markakis needs to be moved to LF soon IMO).

Note: Maybin has a .750 OPS with us and 7 stolen bases, Markakis had a .731 OPS coming into tonight.

I think the Braves will try to find pop at third somehow and play Nick in LF and Maybin in RF. I think Maybin could slug 450 in a season. That's not too shabby even in RF.

[jsebe10]

Joe mentioned that Cunningham is working on an 0-17 after his hot start in Miami. I blame that 100% on Fredi for screwing with his PT

[thethe]

NICE PLAY CUNNY!

[Braves1976]

Nice catch by Cunningham there.

[Braves1976]

I think the Braves will try to find pop at third somehow and play Nick in LF and Maybin in RF. I think Maybin could slug 450 in a season. That's not too shabby even in RF.

I really expect they'll trade Maybin at some point instead.

[sturg33]

I think regression is likely but so far he is giving us what we are paying him.

My biggest beef is that he's a dead roster spot in which we can't improve upon. As long he's with us, we gotta play him - and that's one position where we can't upgrade. I want as many positions to upgrade as possible knowing the power void we may be facing with Simmons/Peterson/Peraza/Bethencourt

[USMA76]

I think the Braves will try to find pop at third somehow and play Nick in LF and Maybin in RF. I think Maybin could slug 450 in a season. That's not too shabby even in RF.

What's your opinion on Uribe e.g. are you saying the Braves either can't or shouldn't re-sign him? I know he's 36 but, other than his first game with us against LA, he's played a pretty decent 3B and he definitely has some pop in his bat.

[Braves1976]

If that's all, great game by Wood again tonight.

[smootness]

I don't expect the .385 OBP to last even through this season much less the last few years of the contract. Hopefully I am wrong.

You could also say his ISO should come up just as easily as well, though. He's coming off neck surgery and didn't have any spring training time, really. It's not unreasonable to think his power will come back some.

He's not going to have much power anymore, but he could certainly get back to an ISO of .100 or so. If he gives us .280/.370/.380, I'm ok with that.

[Braves1976]

What's your opinion on Uribe e.g. are you saying the Braves either can't or shouldn't re-sign him? I know he's 36 but, other than his first game with us against LA, he's played a pretty decent 3B and he definitely has some pop in his bat.

I won't speak for thethe, but if I may answer the same question my take is that if Uribe keeps up this pace I'd try to bring him back on a one year deal despite his age.

[chop2chip]

As much as the Heyward haters bring up Heyward so much, the Markakis haters are pretty obsessed with bashing a guy with a .400 OBP.

[smootness]

My biggest beef is that he's a dead roster spot in which we can't improve upon. As long he's with us, we gotta play him - and that's one position where we can't upgrade. I want as many positions to upgrade as possible knowing the power void we may be facing with Simmons/Peterson/Peraza/Bethencourt

It's highly unlikely our lineup has all 3 of Peterson, Peraza, and Bethancourt starting for any extended period of time.

I get what you're saying, but there's also something to be said for a guy you know can get on base at the major league level.

[thethe]

My biggest beef is that he's a dead roster spot in which we can't improve upon. As long he's with us, we gotta play him - and that's one position where we can't upgrade. I want as many positions to upgrade as possible knowing the power void we may be facing with Simmons/Peterson/Peraza/Bethencourt

I dont think Nick will ever be a zero. We may want to improve the position but he will not be a drain on the roster IMO.

[thethe]

I won't speak for thethe, but if I may answer the same question my take is that if Uribe keeps up this pace I'd try to bring him back on a one year deal despite his age.

Agreed. Need a bridge till the next guy is ready and that doesn't appear ready to happen next year.

[thethe]

As much as the Heyward haters bring up Heyward so much, the Markakis haters are pretty obsessed with bashing a guy with a .400 OBP.

I dont get it.

[USMA76]

I won't speak for thethe, but if I may answer the same question my take is that if Uribe keeps up this pace I'd try to bring him back on a one year deal despite his age.

That's why I asked. I like Uribe because, unlike some of our "veteran" players who shall remain nameless, he brings a positive, winning clubhouse presence plus (get this) actual on-field production. I see no downside to bringing him back at a reasonable price.

[jsebe10]

That's why I asked. I like Uribe because, unlike some of our "veteran" players who shall remain nameless, he brings a positive, winning clubhouse presence plus (get this) actual on-field production. I see no downside to bringing him back at a reasonable price.

No sir. Uribes only purpose on this team right now is to flip us prospects at the deadline this season

[Runnin]

For how long he's locked up and how much he cost I'd say that is mostly nonsense.

He, A.J. and Gomes were brought in to be a solid players and teammates, to give the team all those professional intangibles that we lacked with too much youth and the Upton brothers. It looks like to me the experiment is working. Let's see if they swoon in Sept or not.

10 or 20 million here or there is nothing in today's market. Markakis can be traded or let go when his services are no longer required, just like anybody else.

[CrimsonCowboy]

I think my stomach hurts listening to Chip describing the ballpark food in Arizona

[Braves1976]

Fredi going to leave Wood in too long and mess up his outing.

[sturg33]

As much as the Heyward haters bring up Heyward so much, the Markakis haters are pretty obsessed with bashing a guy with a .400 OBP.

I'm more disappointed with the defense

Also the Hayward hatred has gotten out of control. At least everyone here WANTS Markakis to succeed. Just some of us don't think he will

[jimsnores]

Fredi going to leave Wood in too long and mess up his outing.

Looks like he might. If Pollock gets on, he's gotta pull him.

[Braves1976]

Wood is tired but Fredi leaving him in, you can tell when Wood's tired as he fades fast usually.

[USMA76]

Time for Fredi to pull Wood.

[Braves1976]

Wood got a break there, very nice play by Uribe.

Wood gutted through it but that could've got ugly if not for that very good play by Uribe on the hard hit ball.

[thethe]

Nice job Wood.

[UNCBlue012]

I love Alex Wood.

[chop2chip]

I'm more disappointed with the defense

Also the Hayward hatred has gotten out of control. At least everyone here WANTS Markakis to succeed. Just some of us don't think he will
His defense hasn't been that bad though. Sure it's below average, but -2 DRS won't kill you.

It's mostly grasping at straws to bash a guy IMO. I'm sure 90% of the board agrees the contract was bad, but I'm tired of hearing about it after every 2 hit game from Markakis.

I agree the Heyward hate is awful. I'm very happy that he's turned it around and his playing really well lately.

[jsebe10]

Wood is tired but Fredi leaving him in, you can tell when Wood's tired as he fades fast usually.

He was overthrowing his hook a little bit and dragging his arm. He's definitely tired but battled. Glad Fredi left him in.

[USMA76]

No walks for Wood tonight. Perhaps somebody could send a memo to our bullpen about the value of that metric.

[sturg33]

His defense hasn't been that bad though. Sure it's below average, but -2 DRS won't kill you.

It's mostly grasping at straws to bash a guy IMO. I'm sure 90% of the board agrees the contract was bad, but I'm tired of hearing about it after every 2 hit game from Markakis.



I think you're overreacting. What generally tends to happen is someone makes a joke about Markakis hitting a soft fly ball (let's face it, we joke here at Chop Country)... then thethe comes in with crazy questions about performance of players. And then a real discussion starts about the flaws of said player.

Markakis has been good at getting on base.

That's all I got right now

[chop2chip]

Wood's unlucky streak with balls in play ended tonight. He's been hit hard tonight, but right at our players.

[Braves1976]

His defense hasn't been that bad though. Sure it's below average, but -2 DRS won't kill you.

It's mostly grasping at straws to bash a guy IMO. I'm sure 90% of the board agrees the contract was bad, but I'm tired of hearing about it after every 2 hit game from Markakis.

I agree the Heyward hate is awful. I'm very happy that he's turned it around and his playing really well lately.

If you consider my view about his contract and him declining the last few years of it as bashing I guess we'll just disagree. And as far as joking about his power, a lot here have done that including myself but it isn't meant to bash. I am usually just playing along with a joke in doing so. I think once he hits a few homers that will not happen so much though.

[Braves1976]

Wood's unlucky streak with balls in play ended tonight. He's been hit hard tonight, but right at our players.

He wasn't really hit hard most of the game. He did give up some hard hit balls late when he started tiring though.

[chop2chip]

I think you're overreacting. What generally tends to happen is someone makes a joke about Markakis hitting a soft fly ball (let's face it, we joke here at Chop Country)... then thethe comes in with crazy questions about performance of players. And then a real discussion starts about the flaws of said player.

Markakis has been good at getting on base.

That's all I got right now
I'm not reacting other than making a true observation. Markakis is routinely our most bashed player on the team which is unfair. It's not his fault the team gave him that money. I'm mostly glad that he's been successful doing what he can do with the ability he still has.

I just hope we get to the point where we enjoy the positives he brings to the tables. Even from a saber metric angle he's been productive, even if it's likely not sustainable.

3 hit game now.

[sturg33]

Shame Delgado hasn't figured it out. Live arm

[Braves1976]

EY Jr. is being used as a pinch runner, wow.

[sturg33]

I'm not reacting other than making a true observation. Markakis is routinely our most bashed player on the team which is unfair. It's not his fault the team gave him that money. I'm mostly glad that he's been successful doing what he can do with the ability he still has.

I just hope we get to the point where we enjoy the positives he brings to the tables. Even from a saber metric angle he's been productive, even if it's likely not sustainable.

3 hit game now.

Saying we're "grasping at straws to bash a player" seems like an overreaction. We're not grasping at straws... he has no power and his defense is declining rapidly... We have 3.5 more years of that likely decline. We're not bashing him by pointing out his flaws.

He's been a productive this year (in a punt year) and will likely get worse by the time we really need him and that money to perform.

[USMA76]

Actually, the last AB by Markakis was an error but there's nothing wrong with a two for five night.

[CrimsonCowboy]

D-Backs have one of their infielders warming up

[thethe]

Saying we're "grasping at straws to bash a player" seems like an overreaction. We're not grasping at straws... he has no power and his defense is declining rapidly... We have 3.5 more years of that likely decline. We're not bashing him by pointing out his flaws.

He's been a productive this year (in a punt year) and will likely get worse by the time we really need him and that money to perform.

It may not end up being a punt year aftetall...

[Braves1976]

Uribe deserved that hit after hitting a ball really hard to CF earlier. He's been a really good pickup so far.

[sturg33]

It may not end up being a punt year aftetall...

Let's hope not

[sturg33]

Wood shut down the best offense in the NL

[thethe]

Uribe deserved that hit after hitting a ball really hard to CF earlier. He's been a really good pickup so far.

Need to figure out catcher and the 7th inning. Then we may snatch up a WC.

[USMA76]

As thethe has frequently stated, at the start of the year if you'd told me we'd be a game over .500 on June 1st, I'd have taken that in a second.

[chop2chip]

Saying we're "grasping at straws to bash a player" seems like an overreaction. We're not grasping at straws... he has no power and his defense is declining rapidly... We have 3.5 more years of that likely decline. We're not bashing him by pointing out his flaws.

He's been a productive this year (in a punt year) and will likely get worse by the time we really need him and that money to perform.

Perhaps I worded that strongly.

I still feel the criticism is over the top. It's the Goldilocks Syndrome. He may not do a lot of things that you hope he would be able to do, but it often overshadows all of the things that he does do that provides value.

Let's just save the decline talk until it comes. There should be plenty of time to rub it in our faces.

[sturg33]

As thethe has frequently stated, at the start of the year if you'd told me we'd be a game over .500 on June 1st, I'd have taken that in a second.

Just makes you wonder what we could've done if we were intentionally trying to win

[thethe]

As thethe has frequently stated, at the start of the year if you'd told me we'd be a game over .500 on June 1st, I'd have taken that in a second.

With the prospects of being even better moving forward.

[chop2chip]

Wood shut down the best offense in the NL
Chris Sales lite isn't a bad guy to have in your rotation.

[thethe]

Just makes you wonder what we could've done if we were intentionally trying to win

What does that even mean?

[Braves1976]

Need to figure out catcher and the 7th inning. Then we may snatch up a WC.

My take is more fix catcher, fix the bullpen and fix manager and we're in business as far as having a real shot. But I don't see all that getting done this year.

[chop2chip]

Just makes you wonder what we could've done if we were intentionally trying to win
Trying to figure out who our #3, #4, and #5 starters would be.

[sturg33]

What does that even mean?

Well I believe you described many from last year's team as "stench" and also specifically called Hayward a joke.

I would have liked to have actually used 2015 to try to compete for a championship. By fixing the real problems from last year's team (CF, 3B, and 2B)... which we've shown was possible without burning the young core to the ground.

But it's too late to go into it any further. I get dizzy

[Braves1976]

What does that even mean?

He means it's obvious we're intentionally in rebuild mode, you don't do what we did to our bullpen if you're trying to win. You don't even pick someone with a track record like Stults over Wandy either among other moves and non-moves that could've been made.

[thethe]

Trying to figure out who our #3, #4, and #5 starters would be.

Which trades were done intentionally to not win? If we can identify those then we should make more like them.

[thethe]

Well I believe you described many from last year's team as "stench" and also specifically called Hayward a joke.

I would have liked to have actually used 2015 to try to compete for a championship. By fixing the real problems from last year's team (CF, 3B, and 2B)... which we've shown was possible without burning the young core to the ground.

But it's too late to go into it any further. I get dizzy

Almost every move made has helped the team win this year.

[thethe]

Cunningham can play some defense.

[sturg33]

Cunningham is good out there

[USMA76]

The more I watch Cunningham play defense, I wonder why he isn't in our outfield every day.

[CrimsonCowboy]

http://i.imgur.com/P6x0U.gif

[thethe]

Over 500 again.

[Braves1976]

The more I watch Cunningham play defense, I wonder why he isn't in our outfield every day.

I think it was more his bat than his glove the Braves didn't trust.

[USMA76]

Over 500 again.

...and .500 on the road trip.

[Braves1976]

Good win, offense was good against some rather poor pitching IMO. Wood was great again vs a team that has been lighting up a lot of pitchers so far this year.

[chop2chip]

I feel like the first 51 games of the year has been a constant victory lap for thethe. I can't imagine a soul on earth who would delight in the presence of average more than this good sir.

[jpx7]

I hope they saved some for the next two games.

[GovClintonTyree]

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/poinsett/null_zps4696d5b4.jpg

So this is your home village. Very nice.

[GovClintonTyree]

Sitting Freddie for a game was absolutely the right move. Well played, sir.

:FrediConfident:

Another example of why Fredi is among the best in the industry.

[VirginiaBrave]

I feel like the first 51 games of the year has been a constant victory lap for thethe. I can't imagine a soul on earth who would delight in the presence of average more than this good sir.

After being told all winter about how this team was a 4th place club and 90-95 losses was unavoidable. And now here we sit 51 games in and its not so important where the record sits number wise as it is that we're two good weeks from first place. I give it six weeks and the naysayers will wake up and get on the playoff train. I have said before and I will say again, this has a 1991 vibe to it.

[VirginiaBrave]

Just makes you wonder what we could've done if we were intentionally trying to win

Regardless whose wearing the unis, we are playing well. And I know that just kills you.

[The Chosen One]

When I said I'd rather keep Alex Wood over JT and maybe even Folty, it's nights like these That reassure me.

[The Chosen One]

After being told all winter about how this team was a 4th place club and 90-95 losses was unavoidable. And now here we sit 51 games in and its not so important where the record sits number wise as it is that we're two good weeks from first place. I give it six weeks and the naysayers will wake up and get on the playoff train. I have said before and I will say again, this has a 1991 vibe to it.

I was very critical of the front office, but I never said we'd be a 90-95 loss team.

Until we fix our bullpen, we're going to have to rely on our starters to give us 7-8 innings every game just to keep us in the game. We look good now because Freddie is hitting homers again (who would've thought hitting for power was useful), but if he goes through another coldspell again... yeah.

[Runnin]

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/poinsett/null_zps4696d5b4.jpg
Bringing the wood.

[Runnin]

Over .500 !!!
https://sdsimonson.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/tumblr_liyhtr5ljq1qakh43o1_400.gif

[thethe]

I feel like the first 51 games of the year has been a constant victory lap for thethe. I can't imagine a soul on earth who would delight in the presence of average more than this good sir.

Averaging at this point is light years ahead of what was discussed in the offseason. We were basically beaten over the head with the fact that we acquired awful players and wouldn't be a good team for ages. Oh yeah, and we were beyond stupid to suggest this team would be more fun to watch than last year's team. Good times.

[yeezus]

Averaging at this point is light years ahead of what was discussed in the offseason. We were basically beaten over the head with the fact that we acquired awful players and wouldn't be a good team for ages. Oh yeah, and we were beyond stupid to suggest this team would be more fun to watch than last year's team. Good times.

AND our minors are looking really good, as is our young pitching, both of which are huge.

[yeezus]

and hey, just like someone said, a good game or two here or there after a lousy stretch and our offensive numbers are clearly better than last year's team again.

[50PoundHead]

I was very critical of the front office, but I never said we'd be a 90-95 loss team.

Until we fix our bullpen, we're going to have to rely on our starters to give us 7-8 innings every game just to keep us in the game. We look good now because Freddie is hitting homers again (who would've thought hitting for power was useful), but if he goes through another coldspell again... yeah.

I predicted 71-91 and I'm still there. I'm happy to see the team doing well and while I didn't agree with every move made during the off-season, I was happy to see a blueprint unveiled as opposed to continuing with Wren's hand-to-mouth mentality. It was decided a rebuild shouldn't wait and that the return would be greater if guys were moved now as opposed to later. Can't prove the negative, so no use going down that road.

I like a lot of the guys we did acquire. I didn't think Jace Peterson would play this well, but we're still dealing with a relatively small sample. But, it's obvious the guy can play some. There's been a lot of talk about Maybin and maybe things have come together for him. I usually underplay the importance of coaches, but maybe I'm wrong because Seitzer looks like he knows a few things that are really helping guys.

Starting pitching has been pretty good as well and Grilli and Johnson have been decent too.

All this said, I still think this team could go 0-for-September. Hope I'm wrong. Curious to see what happens at the trade deadline if we are in the hunt for a playoff position.

[yeezus]

I predicted 71-91 and I'm still there. I'm happy to see the team doing well and while I didn't agree with every move made during the off-season, I was happy to see a blueprint unveiled as opposed to continuing with Wren's hand-to-mouth mentality. It was decided a rebuild shouldn't wait and that the return would be greater if guys were moved now as opposed to later. Can't prove the negative, so no use going down that road.

I like a lot of the guys we did acquire. I didn't think Jace Peterson would play this well, but we're still dealing with a relatively small sample. But, it's obvious the guy can play some. There's been a lot of talk about Maybin and maybe things have come together for him. I usually underplay the importance of coaches, but maybe I'm wrong because Seitzer looks like he knows a few things that are really helping guys.

Starting pitching has been pretty good as well and Grilli and Johnson have been decent too.

All this said, I still think this team could go 0-for-September. Hope I'm wrong. Curious to see what happens at the trade deadline if we are in the hunt for a playoff position.

Man, you still have us at only 71 wins?
I still think our pitching is going to improve, overall.

[thethe]

Man, you still have us at only 71 wins?
I still think our pitching is going to improve, overall.

There's also some pretty solid buzz about the relief pitchers that will be returning in July

[thewupk]

Around a 400 on base percentage. Yeah I'd take it every day of the week.

with zero power and really bad defense? And that's in year one.

[thethe]

with zero power and really bad defense? And that's in year one.

I acknowledged that he will probably regress over the course of the contract. All I was saying was that if he were to give us this type of production over the length of the contract then we should all be very happy

[yeezus]

with zero power and really bad defense? And that's in year one.

"very" bad?

[nsacpi]

Markakis has had the kind of year so far that provides ammunition to both his detractors and supporters. So far his ISO is 88 points below his career average, but his BABIP is 34 points above his career average. Both are likely to normalize with a bigger sample this season. But it is a somewhat troubling combination because the BABIP is more likely to normalize.

That's not the end of the story. His walk rate is up 3% from the career average and the strikeout rate is up 1% from his career average and 2-3% from recent seasons. The tradeoff is acceptable if it continues. But I wonder a bit why the strikeout rate is up if he has adjusted his hitting style to get more contact and OBP.

As for his defense it is ok. The only issue really is we got spoilt by the guy who preceded him. There was some debate in recent years about whether the defensive data overstated Jason's value. I think having the opportunity to see a competent but not world class guy like Markakis in right answers that question.

[Julio3000]

I predicted 71-91 and I'm still there. I'm happy to see the team doing well and while I didn't agree with every move made during the off-season, I was happy to see a blueprint unveiled as opposed to continuing with Wren's hand-to-mouth mentality. It was decided a rebuild shouldn't wait and that the return would be greater if guys were moved now as opposed to later. Can't prove the negative, so no use going down that road.

I like a lot of the guys we did acquire. I didn't think Jace Peterson would play this well, but we're still dealing with a relatively small sample. But, it's obvious the guy can play some. There's been a lot of talk about Maybin and maybe things have come together for him. I usually underplay the importance of coaches, but maybe I'm wrong because Seitzer looks like he knows a few things that are really helping guys.

Starting pitching has been pretty good as well and Grilli and Johnson have been decent too.

All this said, I still think this team could go 0-for-September. Hope I'm wrong. Curious to see what happens at the trade deadline if we are in the hunt for a playoff position.

Agreed across the board. I'm still bearish on the team being in WC contention, but I'm pleasantly surprised at the performance so far.

I think it's probably reasonable to credit Seitzer with Not Not's whole-field approach, and it's been frequently remarked that Maybin is a happy disciple of his. That may end up being one of the most valuable moves we made last year.

We have a chance for a .500 (or better) West Coast road trip against some damned good teams. I'll be happy to put the arguments on hold and enjoy it.

[thewupk]

I acknowledged that he will probably regress over the course of the contract. All I was saying was that if he were to give us this type of production over the length of the contract then we should all be very happy

He is essentialy a 2 WAR player right now. I don't think I would be all that happy with just that even though it's slightly better than where I thought he would be. But what he would give us in 2015 has never been my issue with Mark. It's that it's a 4 year deal where there is a real chance of him being useless the last year or two.

[nsacpi]

He is essentialy a 2 WAR player right now. I don't think I would be all that happy with just that even though it's slightly better than where I thought he would be. But what he would give us in 2015 has never been my issue with Mark. It's that it's a 4 year deal where there is a real chance of him being useless the last year or two.

When we signed him I thought he would average 1.0-1.5 WAR per season over the life of the contract, which was why I thought it wasn't a good signing. As you noted he is on track for 2 WAR this season, which is consistent with what I was expecting given normal aging patterns.

[jsebe10]

It may not end up being a punt year aftetall...

See...I am right there with this. The Nats injuries and annual DL stints are starting to kick in and I think we can compete with the Mets...this division or wild card is far from a reach for this team. Hopefully we can be contenders at the deadline.

[The Chosen One]

Fredi will bring this team to the wild card and people will complain we didn't take the division. Crazy we're only a few games behind the Nats. if we had a competent bullpen that waz even league average we'd be fighting for first in the east.

[thethe]

Fredi will bring this team to the wild card and people will complain we didn't take the division. Crazy we're only a few games behind the Nats. if we had a competent bullpen that waz even league average we'd be fighting for first in the east.

If we can make it to July in good shape reinforcements for the pen will get here.

[yeezus]

I still don't trust this offense enough. We're still a negative in differential, which is really never good.

However, if Uribe can hit like he did last year, it will go a long way to solidifying the lineup. Jace seems to be improving steadily. Pitching has been improving steadily as well. I guess we will wait and see what the upcoming month brings.

[nsacpi]

I predicted 71-91 and I'm still there. I'm happy to see the team doing well and while I didn't agree with every move made during the off-season, I was happy to see a blueprint unveiled as opposed to continuing with Wren's hand-to-mouth mentality. It was decided a rebuild shouldn't wait and that the return would be greater if guys were moved now as opposed to later. Can't prove the negative, so no use going down that road.



I'm not sure what Hart's blueprint was. I remember ahead of the Heyward trade he gave an interview. He in effect said the off-season could go one of two ways. He said the team's chances of contending depended upon its ability to acquire a young cost-controlled starter. He said that was the key. If they could do that they could compete with most of the team as it existed. If not a more radical rebuild would have to ensue.

So he goes out and in fact acquires that young cost-controlled starter in the Heyward trade. But he seemed to change his mind after that about competing in 2015. I think that was a mistake given we had guys like Freeman and Simmons in their prime and under control going forward (providing a good foundation to continue to field a competitive team). The fact the team is competitive this year even with a sub-par supporting cast suggests to me that Hart misjudged our chances for success this year, and I would argue our chances for competing going forward without the radical overhaul he implemented.

[thethe]

I'm not sure what Hart's blueprint was. I remember ahead of the Heyward trade he gave an interview. He in effect said the off-season could go one of two ways. He said the team's chances of contending depended upon its ability to acquire a young cost-controlled starter. He said that was the key. If they could do that they could compete with most of the team as it existed. If not a more radical rebuild would have to ensue.

So he goes out and in fact acquires that young cost-controlled starter in the Heyward trade. But he seemed to change his mind after that about competing in 2015. I think that was a mistake given we had guys like Freeman and Simmons in their prime and under control going forward (providing a good foundation to continue to field a competitive team). The fact the team is competitive this year even with a sub-par supporting cast suggests to me that Hart misjudged our chances for success this year, and I would argue our chances for competing going forward without the radical overhaul he implemented.

Hart plan was primarily to ensure that there was a deep pipeline of players ready to help the team in 2017. Once that was accomplished then it was try to be as competitive as possible currently.

[yeezus]

If we stop dealing after the Heyward trade and try and compete (which I think would have been a huge mistake - the offense would be terrible), we'd have no farm system to speak of, or at least not even close to the really good one we have now. So when this season was over, we'd be depleted when Upton signed elsewhere and there was nothing on the farm.

[thewupk]

If we stop dealing after the Heyward trade and try and compete (which I think would have been a huge mistake - the offense would be terrible), we'd have no farm system to speak of, or at least not even close to the really good one we have now. So when this season was over, we'd be depleted when Upton signed elsewhere and there was nothing on the farm.

That's interesting. Would Justin+Gattis+EY Jr(account for BJ being out)+Gooselin and then likely Peraza(accounting for Gooselin's injury) be better or worse than LF combo+Bethancourt+Maybin+Peterson?

[nsacpi]

If we stop dealing after the Heyward trade and try and compete (which I think would have been a huge mistake - the offense would be terrible), we'd have no farm system to speak of, or at least not even close to the really good one we have now. So when this season was over, we'd be depleted when Upton signed elsewhere and there was nothing on the farm.

Let me sketch out how we could have a strong competitive team in 2017 even while stopping after the Heyward deal.

1st Freeman
2nd Peraza
SS Simmons
3B Kubitza/Castro platoon
C Acquired or Signed
RF Um Markakis
CF Acquired or signed (main trade bait is Gattis)
LF Acquired or signed (main trade bait is Gattis)

Starting rotation: Wood, Miller, Teheran, Perez, (one of Jenkins, Sims, Martin or Hale) with the others providing depth/bullpen help
Closer: Kimbrel

In this scenario we make one big signing to fill one outfield spot. I believe we all agree payroll can go up to allow for this to happen. Gattis is used to acquire the second outfielder in a trade. I bet we even have money left over in this scenario (since we are not paying Justin Upton or Heyward to stay with the team) to pick up a solid veteran starting pitcher.

It is worth noting that even with all the prospects we have picked up, there is a general consensus we are going to have to spend to get a power bat to play left or third. So in that regard, projecting we are going to spend there is the same in both scenarios. In both scenarios there is also a need for a catcher.

[thethe]

Let me sketch out how we could have a strong competitive team in 2017 even while stopping after the Heyward deal.

1st Freeman
2nd Peraza
SS Simmons
3B Kubitza/Castro platoon
C Acquired or Signed
RF Um Markakis
CF Acquired or signed (main trade bait is Gattis)
LF Acquired or signed (main trade bait is Gattis)

Starting rotation: Wood, Miller, Teheran, Perez, (one of Jenkins, Sims, Martin or Hale) with the others providing depth/bullpen help
Closer: Kimbrel

In this scenario we make one big signing to fill one outfield spot. I believe we all agree payroll can go up to allow for this to happen. Gattis is used to acquire the second outfielder in a trade. I bet we even have money left over in this scenario (since we are not paying Justin Upton or Heyward to stay with the team) to pick up a solid veteran starting pitcher.

It is worth noting that even with all the prospects we have picked up, there is a general consensus we are going to have to spend to get a power bat to play left or third. So in that regard, projecting we are going to spend there is the same in both scenarios. In both scenarios there is also a need for a catcher.

But the overall depth at the minor league levels at this point would be awful. Now we are goingto be able to use Peraza plus a starting pitcher in a deal to get a bat in RF (after markakis moves to LF) and have either Mallex Smith or Maybin in CF. I just don't see how the above approach would put us in a better position for 2017 than we are in now.

[50PoundHead]

I'm not sure what Hart's blueprint was. I remember ahead of the Heyward trade he gave an interview. He in effect said the off-season could go one of two ways. He said the team's chances of contending depended upon its ability to acquire a young cost-controlled starter. He said that was the key. If they could do that they could compete with most of the team as it existed. If not a more radical rebuild would have to ensue.

So he goes out and in fact acquires that young cost-controlled starter in the Heyward trade. But he seemed to change his mind after that about competing in 2015. I think that was a mistake given we had guys like Freeman and Simmons in their prime and under control going forward (providing a good foundation to continue to field a competitive team). The fact the team is competitive this year even with a sub-par supporting cast suggests to me that Hart misjudged our chances for success this year, and I would argue our chances for competing going forward without the radical overhaul he implemented.

The only thing that still doesn't make sense is the decision to sign Markakis. I think once deals materialized for J. Upton and Gattis, he went into full re-build mode, but I think his toe was in the water all along.

[nsacpi]

But the overall depth at the minor league levels at this point would be awful. Now we are goingto be able to use Peraza plus a starting pitcher in a deal to get a bat in RF (after markakis moves to LF) and have either Mallex Smith or Maybin in CF. I just don't see how the above approach would put us in a better position for 2017 than we are in now.

I don't disagree with that. We have improved our depth by punting. And if we punt in 2016 we can make the future even brighter. Ditto if we punt in 2017, 2018, etc, etc. You have to have some criteria to justify punting. To me that criteria is if you don't have a core to build around. If your best player is a rapidly declining Dale Murphy rather than Freeman and Simmons in their prime.

My point is not that our position would be better in 2017 without punting. I am not arguing that. I am arguing that we could have had a strong competitive team in 2017 and beyond without punting.

[nsacpi]

The only thing that still doesn't make sense is the decision to sign Markakis. I think once deals materialized for J. Upton and Gattis, he went into full re-build mode, but I think his toe was in the water all along.

I don't think a too good to refuse deal materialized for Justin Upton. He admitted he had to dial back his expectations.

[thethe]

I don't disagree with that. We have improved our depth by punting. And if we punt in 2016 we can make the future even brighter. Ditto if we punt in 2017, 2018, etc, etc. You have to have some criteria to justify punting. To me that criteria is if you don't have a core to build around. If your best player is a rapidly declining Dale Murphy rather than Freeman and Simmons in their prime.

My point is not that our position would be better in 2017 without punting. I am not arguing that. I am arguing that we could have had a strong competitive team in 2017 and beyond without punting.

I don't think that was the priority for the organization though. I think it was clear that while they wouldn't mind being good right now it was more important to be really good in 2017.

[nsacpi]

I don't think that was the priority for the organization though. I think it was clear that while they wouldn't mind being good right now it was more important to be really good in 2017.

Well I hope they realize how big a role Lady Luck can play in any given season and have some sort of deal in place with her for 2017.

Look at the Oakland A's. While the Twins have been lucky by 9 games this year, the A's have been unlucky to the tune of 10. But hey maybe we will be good and lucky in 2017. That would be awesome.