6/3/15: GDT - Atlanta Braves @ Arizona Diamondbacks (Maybin back in the lineup)

[thethe]

Kevin McAlpin ‏@KevinMcAlpin 13m13 minutes ago
#Braves lineup: Peterson 4, Maybin 8, Freeman 3, Markakis 9, C Johnson 5, Simmons 6, Cunningham 7, Bethancourt 2, Foltynewicz 1

[thethe]

Still salty about that loss last night. Would have been nice to have a chance at 3 games over 500 today.

Lets get the win boys.

[Garmel]

Let's hope Folty takes it deep into the game so the bullpen won't be a factor.

[jpx7]

Really glad Maybin's back in and Gomes is out—especially since I'll be sitting in the outfield bleachers today.

[thethe]

I'm thinking that they should try out Maybin in LF to see how he handles the corners. Cunningham is a better defensive center fielder.

[MadduxFanII]

Johnson and Simmons back-to-back? Is it possible to hit two double plays in an inning?

More substantively, that's another basically unobjectionable lineup. All the guys you want to see playing are playing.

[UNCBlue012]

we NEED this win. Last night should of been a win and we let it slip, we can't do that today.

[50PoundHead]

Johnson and Simmons back-to-back? Is it possible to hit two double plays in an inning?

More substantively, that's another basically unobjectionable lineup. All the guys you want to see playing are playing.

Only if there's a Tardis in the dugout.

[stpeteirish]

Johnson and Simmons back-to-back? Is it possible to hit two double plays in an inning?

More substantively, that's another basically unobjectionable lineup. All the guys you want to see playing are playing.

Maybe you've stumbled upon the exact reason he did this.

[nsacpi]

Expecting a huge game from The Todd

[Julio3000]

Half of the position players in today's lineup are homerless on the season.

[Russ2dollas]

i'm in NC and the regional coverage from MLB has me watching the Yankees and Seattle vs the braves.......WHAT

[Garmel]

Maybin's safe.

[chop2chip]

Maybin should be 1-1... Hopefully The Mets fans in New York make the right call.

[chop2chip]

The fans in Arizona have me dreading the series when the Cubs come to Atlanta.

[UNCBlue012]

Freddie just missed three straight fastballs...

[UNCBlue012]

MARKAKIS. No power? lies!

[CyYoung31]

Love those patented soft Markakis doubles down the line.

[thethe]

That guy sucks...

[thethe]

Love those patented soft Markakis doubles down the line.

RUTHIAN!

[The Chosen One]

David Carpenter DFA'd by the Yankees... I wasn't his biggest fan when he was here... but he has to be somewhat better than anything we have not named Avilan-Grilli-Johnson.

[UNCBlue012]

Then CJoh stares at fastballs with very little movement.

[thethe]

Then CJoh stares at fastballs with very little movement.

Really a shame that Uribe is going to lose someplaying time to that scrub.

[The Chosen One]

Any news on Kelly Johnson returning?

Maybe we can stuff Kelly or Cunningham at 3rd with Uribe. At least until Hart tries to flip KJ.

[The Chosen One]

My mind still thinks we won the game last night. :JSIDK:

[UNCBlue012]

Folty is not throwing anything special so far today.

[Julio3000]

Any news on Kelly Johnson returning?

Maybe we can stuff Kelly or Cunningham at 3rd with Uribe. At least until Hart tries to flip KJ.

He totally wouldn't fit.

[CyYoung31]

RUTHIAN!

Ruth routinely hit more home runs in single games than Markakis has hit all year.

[chop2chip]

It would be nice not to walk 10 tonight.

[thethe]

Ruth routinely hit more home runs in single games than Markakis has hit all year.

Its incredible how the Braves ever win any games with him in the lineup.

[CyYoung31]

RUTHIAN!

And furthermore I'm tired of you taking everything so far out of context. It's tiring.

[Russ2dollas]

simmons drawing a walk like that brings a tear to the eye......no way he does that last year.

[UNCBlue012]

WOO! Good stuff Cunningham and Simba!

[chop2chip]

Tomas is soooooo bad defensively.

[UNCBlue012]

simmons drawing a walk like that brings a tear to the eye......no way he does that last year.

It's been a much, much better year offensively.

[Garmel]

Simmons would have been out by a mile if Tomas hangs on to it.

[UNCBlue012]

Well, good pitches or not, Christian didn't even attempt to make contact.

[nsacpi]

Well, good pitches or not, Christian didn't even attempt to make contact.

Would you go so far as to say he attempted not to make contact?

[Garmel]

I'm a Bethancourt fan and I have to admit that was an awful at-bat.

[thethe]

And furthermore I'm tired of you taking everything so far out of context. It's tiring.

Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
Why aren't there riots outside of Turner Field right now? This is the kind of decision that should get Hart ran out of town on a rail.

This is a Ruthian-like deal. And I stand by that statement.

Yes,clearly out of context.

[CyYoung31]

Peterson > Justin Upton

AMIRITE THETHE?

[thethe]

Peterson > Justin Upton

AMIRITE THETHE?

If you find where I said that then by all means I will own up to it as being completely stupid. First you own up to your insane statement.

[CyYoung31]

Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung31 View Post
Why aren't there riots outside of Turner Field right now? This is the kind of decision that should get Hart ran out of town on a rail.

This is a Ruthian-like deal. And I stand by that statement.

Yes,clearly out of context.

You're a ****ing moron if you actually think I was comparing Jason Heyward to Babe Ruth, as I explained myself in that thread.

[CyYoung31]

If you find where I said that then by all means I will own up to it as being completely stupid. First you own up to your insane statement.

Read mother****er. Read.

[UNCBlue012]

I LOVE MAYBIN SO MUCH

[Garmel]

Way to go, Maybin!

[The Chosen One]

Team got some sweg.

[thethe]

You're a ****ing moron if you actually think I was comparing Jason Heyward to Babe Ruth, as I explained myself in that thread.

Does that make your statement any less ridiculous?

[thethe]

Jace Peterson and Cameron Maybin have been amazing this year. What an improvement over last years embarrassments.

[UNCBlue012]

DAMN FREDDIE

[The Chosen One]

Major sweg. Cockthrust by Freeman.

[thethe]

This is fun!!!!

[Garmel]

FREEMAN!!!!!

[thethe]

Can't believe we lost that game last night.

This team is starting to find its groove.

NEED TO FIND A FIX FOR THE PEN. This team can make the playoffs.

[The Chosen One]

We need to keep Maybin on the team.

[CyYoung31]

Does that make your statement any less ridiculous?

On the subject of ridiculous, should we talk about your blind homerism and overall obnoxious demeanor since the offseason?

[The Chosen One]

I need a moderator to moderate my moderators.

[CyYoung31]

We need to keep Maybin on the team.

Agreed. At least until we sign Babe Ruth, er, I mean Jason Heyward in the offseason.

[UNCBlue012]

Why is there complaining at all? We are up 6-0...

[The Chosen One]

Do the last few games count as Fredi getting the most out of most of his players?

[CyYoung31]

I need a moderator to moderate my moderators.

Sorry. Me and thethe just doin' our thang.

[thethe]

On the subject of ridiculous, should we talk about your blind homerism and overall obnoxious demeanor since the offseason?

Newtons third law. Was required based on your levels and many others in the offseason.

[CyYoung31]

Why is there complaining at all? We are up 6-0...

Who's complaining? This team is awesome, sans bullpen.

[thethe]

We need to keep Maybin on the team.

Maybin should be in RF next year with Mallex in CF and Markakis in LF.

Thats the outfield. Use Peraza in a deal for Lucroy and there is our world series team.

[dak]

I just wanted to point out that the opposing pitchers name is Rubby.

[nsacpi]

Do the last few games count as Fredi getting the most out of most of his players?

last night's certainly falls in that category

[thethe]

Will be nice to see how Folty responds to getting a big lead.

[The Chosen One]

CJ get out of the way when Andrelton has a chance.

[stpeteirish]

Maybin should be in RF next year with Mallex in CF and Markakis in LF.

Thats the outfield. Use Peraza in a deal for Lucroy and there is our world series team.

calm down we'll still need about 7 more pitchers

[smootness]

A 97-mph 2-seamer? Good grief.

[thethe]

calm down we'll still need about 7 more pitchers

The thing is that we won't really.

Shae Simmons will be back. Viz is a good arm. I think they may hang on to Grilli for one more season. Mckirkan showed some promise. Hopefully Avilan will have a left arm by that point.

There are a lot of arms down in the minors and fixing a bullpen can be done on the cheap in free agency. The starting rotation is set.

[smootness]

calm down we'll still need about 7 more pitchers

Sure, we need bullpen arms. But we have several good ones that should be heathy by then. I actually don't mind that plan. The questions would be whether we could get Lucroy (we couldn't, certainly not with a deal built around Peraza), whether Mallex would be ready, and whether Maybin could keep up this offense.

[Russ2dollas]

Do not trade anything for bp help. everything that glitters is not gold. stick to your plan.

I'm scared of any catchers approaching or over 30. Usually ends poorly.

Peraza is 21. No need to trade him. We can let him mature in the minors for a couple of years and he's still ahead of the curve. I'm not sold on Jace. I'd be more inclined to sell high on Jace and bring up Peraza.

[smootness]

The thing is that we won't really.

Shae Simmons will be back. Viz is a good arm. I think they may hang on to Grilli for one more season. Mckirkan showed some promise. Hopefully Avilan will have a left arm by that point.

There are a lot of arms down in the minors and fixing a bullpen can be done on the cheap in free agency. The starting rotation is set.

Also Winkler and Withrow. And Banuelos or Williams Perez could give us help there, too.

[thethe]

Also Winkler and Withrow.

Good call.

[UNCBlue012]

Bethancourt has been a mess this inning

[thethe]

Come on Folty. Stay aggressive.

[chop2chip]

Personally I would keep Peraza and Mallex and see if one of those guys can prove to be our CF. Dangerous to assume either guy will be a good player until they prove it.

[thethe]

Personally I would keep Peraza and Mallex and see if one of those guys can prove to be our CF. Dangerous to assume either guy will be a good player until they prove it.

Fair point but catcher is the teams biggest weakness moving forward.

Maybe we can bring Uribe back on a year to year basis.

[smootness]

Personally I would keep Peraza and Mallex and see if one of those guys can prove to be our CF. Dangerous to assume either guy will be a good player until they prove it.

It's a risk, but it's worth it if you can get the right return. I've been on board the 'keep Peraza' train, but if the organization is sold on Peterson, then now is the time to see what we could get for him.

Albies will be knocking on the door before long.

[dak]

Maybe we can bring Uribe back on a year to year basis.

It's not a sexy option, but the 3B market is challenging enough that I think this will be considered.

[UNCBlue012]

Gotta love Cunningham. And good swing Beth.

[Russ2dollas]

I though DOB said one of the catchers we got from the rockies was a legit option to push CB long term?

I don't think C is our biggest hole. I think it's finding an impact bat. We need someone who can put up an OPS similar to FF to pair with all of our singles/BB hitters. Needs to play C, 3B, or corner OF.

[chop2chip]

It's a risk, but it's worth it if you can get the right return. I've been on board the 'keep Peraza' train, but if the organization is sold on Peterson, then now is the time to see what we could get for him.

Albies will be knocking on the door before long.
I think the Braves are full steam ahead on Jace which explains Peraza transitioning to CF (you wouldn't do something like that mid season if you were dead set on him playing 2B). I just think it's dangerous to assume a AA CF (who is shaky as a defensive CF by all accounts) will be ready to be your starting CF next year.

I understand trading Peraza for the right package, but I wouldn't actively sell him because of Mallex/Jace.

[chop2chip]

It's not a sexy option, but the 3B market is challenging enough that I think this will be considered.
I really wish Rio would start hitting.

[smootness]

I though DOB said one of the catchers we got from the rockies was a legit option to push CB long term?

I don't think C is our biggest hole. I think it's finding an impact bat. We need someone who can put up an OPS similar to FF to pair with all of our singles/BB hitters. Needs to play C, 3B, or corner OF.

DOB doesn't know what he's talking about. Briceno isn't a real option. The guy is 22 and is OPSing at .423 at A+. Bethancourt OPS'd at over .700 at AAA last year at the same age.

[thethe]

I though DOB said one of the catchers we got from the rockies was a legit option to push CB long term?

I don't think C is our biggest hole. I think it's finding an impact bat. We need someone who can put up an OPS similar to FF to pair with all of our singles/BB hitters. Needs to play C, 3B, or corner OF.

D'Dowd is hitting well but his defense is suspect I think.

Briceno (SP) has been awful so far.

[UNCBlue012]

Folty's last two pitch sequences have been incredibly awful.

[thethe]

I feel bad for pitchers that have to play in Arizona.

[UNCBlue012]

Hey uh, Folty. Do you want to actually pitch to these guys? That was just embarrassing.

[jpx7]

Twice again this game Folty loses focus with two outs.

[UNCBlue012]

Walks are so frustrating. That inning should of never happened. He pretty much intentionally walked Goldy.

[WaitingFor2017]

It seems to me that the Braves seem to blow games every stinking year in Arizona. Even Kimbrel had some struggles locking down games in the desert.

[chop2chip]

Rookie pitchers. It's gonna happen.

We just need to keep the pressure up.

[thethe]

Rookie pitchers. It's gonna happen.

We just need to keep the pressure up.

Yeah, there are definitely going to be ups and downs but as we have learned so far this year....Folty gets better the deeper he pitches into games.

[Garmel]

We need more runs.

[stpeteirish]

Twice again this game Folty loses focus with two outs.

yeah, he really needs to stop walking people.

[UNCBlue012]

How many awful outside calls can this pitcher get?

[Russ2dollas]

Rookie pitchers. It's gonna happen.

We just need to keep the pressure up.

agree. And it's why we need to get ManBan, Wisler, Folty or anyone else we think is going to be a starter in 2017 and lot of work between now and then.

[Russ2dollas]

How many awful outside calls can this pitcher get?

Robo umps NOW.

[UNCBlue012]

So, Maybin was walked twice there.

[CyYoung31]

Freddie for the ASG.

[thethe]

Can Freeman play all his games in this park?

[UNCBlue012]

Freddie!

[keithlaw]

We need to give Freeman half a day off more often

[jpx7]

Freeman likes it here, roof open or closed.

[UNCBlue012]

Markakis again! Yet he has no power.

[WaitingFor2017]

If doubles were homers, then Markakis for the ASG.

[chop2chip]

Freddie vs. Goldie is fun.

Markakis is a slugger.

[thethe]

More power from the powerless one!

[UNCBlue012]

Chris is an idiot. Lol

[WaitingFor2017]

Johnson is dreadful today. 3 K's in 4 innings.

[chop2chip]

This is perfect. Hopefully this reminds Freddie to never play CJ vs righties.

We have the two players with the most severe platoon splits in baseball and they both manage to get starts against right handed pitching.

[Garmel]

Good thing is that this kid has a high pitch count and that will give us a great chance to destroy their bullpen again.

[thethe]

Why would we ever not want to play Uribe other than normal rest?

[Garmel]

Why would we ever not want to play Uribe other than normal rest?

Uribe is 36. He's probably not an everyday player

[CyYoung31]

Jpx sighting.

[jpx7]

Markakis again! Yet he has no power.

More power from the powerless one!

Duck-snorts to the gap don't exactly count ...

[jpx7]

Jpx sighting.

Up in the craft beer lounge?

[zbhargrove]

The Jose Fernandez 5 hour energy drink commercial on MLBTV is bizarre.

[chop2chip]

AJ Pollack has really impressed me this series.

[thethe]

Pitching in this park is awful. Part of the reason I was optimistc about Cahil. That was wrong...

[nsacpi]

Hope Fredi remembers Avilan, Johnson and Grilli are the guys for innings 7-9.

And hope Foltynevich gives us 6 innings.

[jpx7]

Terrible fielder.

[thethe]

Need at least 6 innings Folty. Tough it out.

[thethe]

Terrible everything.

Helped you out there bud...

[Garmel]

CJ is good for hitting LHP. Beyond that he's pretty much useless.

[CyYoung31]

I'm having trouble figuring out what CJ brings to the team.

[thethe]

I'm having trouble figuring out what CJ brings to the team.

If you're having trouble then I'm hopeless.

[thethe]

Maybin just continues to produce.

[Russ2dollas]

If you're having trouble then I'm hopeless.

ask wrenn's bro on twitter

[thethe]

ask wrenn's bro on twitter

I'm sure they had their reasons for signing him. Jeff Wren seems like a reasonable enough person but I think its hard to imagine a situation where he isn't very biased against the current Braves regime. If I were in his position I would feel the same way.

[The Chosen One]

Really miss Jason's defense in right.

[jpx7]

You trying running with that golden glove. Junk's heavy as hell.

[WaitingFor2017]

We need more runs.

[jpx7]

It's been too long since university: I forgot how to say "-1 DRS" in Greek.

[UNCBlue012]

Jeez, Folty. Youve not even faced a decent hitter this inning.

[nsacpi]

Avilan coming in a little early. But the right move. Use Avilan and Martin if necessary to get through the 7th.

[WaitingFor2017]

Keep Avilan in for the 7th, please. No reason to "waste" him in a game that could go extras.

[nsacpi]

Keep Avilan in for the 7th, please. No reason to "waste" him in a game that could go extras.

We have an off-day tomorrow. Can have certain guys including Avilan throw a few more pitches than they normally would.

[UNCBlue012]

Love Markakis.

[WaitingFor2017]

I'd love Markakis if his deal was for 6 or 7 mil a year for 2-3 years instead of 11 mil for 4 years.

[Russ2dollas]

I'd love Markakis if his deal was for 6 or 7 mil a year for 2-3 years instead of 11 mil for 4 years.

hell i'd love him at 2/30. I just think we're going to hate 2018 and maybe 2018.

[WaitingFor2017]

Fredi overmanaging here with Gomes. Give me good defense and solid offense over horrid defense and mediocre offense in a tight game late.

[jpx7]

Dumb call by Fredi—and I would've said that even if Gomes had scored a hit.

[UNCBlue012]

Why isn't the 2-2 Cunningham hitting here? Screw the splits, this is dumb. Now his defense is out as well.

[nsacpi]

Gomes for Cunningham weakens us defensively. Should not do it with lead.

[50PoundHead]

Why is Fredi using Gomes there?

[jsebe10]

Gomes for Cunningham weakens us defensively. Should not do it with lead.

Just defensively? Lol

[WaitingFor2017]

If Fredi is our manager, the front office CANNOT give him a past his prime (was Gomes ever at his prime??) vet... He'll use him often and often incorrectly.

[jsebe10]

Why is Fredi using Gomes there?

Bc Cunningham is a lefty...wait what....he's a switch!!!!!

[UNCBlue012]

Fredi with the logic that can't at all be rationalized.

[jpx7]

We have an off-day tomorrow. Can have certain guys including Avilan throw a few more pitches than they normally would.

No.:FrediWut:

[Braves1976]

Cunningham catches that.

[CyYoung31]

Oh, look what Gomes defensive switch has done for us.

[jpx7]

...

Back in the LF bleachers just in time to watch Gomes play d.

[UNCBlue012]

I hate Fredi so, so much. Another bad move. He maybe cost us a run offensively and maybe defensively as well.

[WaitingFor2017]

Fredi just doesn't use his head. He plays the game like it's checkers (thinking one move at a time -- living in the moment) instead of chess (thinking multiple moves ahead). No reason to pull Avilan -- now you have to pull Martin next inning since his spot is due up.

With Cunningham, you could've surprised them with a squeeze. We're likely only getting one run out of that inning if we scored at all with Betancourt and someone like Gomes pinch hitting for the pitcher. As I type this, Gomes gives up 2 bags. Fredi looks clueless.

[UNCBlue012]

7-6, wow. We were up 6-0 against this garbage team.

[Braves1976]

Now Fredi takes Gomes out for EY Jr., he is such an idiot it's not even funny anymore.

[UNCBlue012]

Now EY comes in as a defensive switch. Hahaha why isn't Todd in there?...

[CyYoung31]

Fredi realizing the error of his ways.

[thethe]

Now Fredi takes Gomes out for EY Jr., he is such an idiot it's not even funny anymore.

an absolute joke that he still our manager

[UNCBlue012]

Now Jim is out in the 7th instead of the needed 8th. Lol

[Braves1976]

an absolute joke that he still our manager

Yep, if Hart and co. put together a playoff team that can win a WS Fredi will screw it up if he's still here.

[USMA76]

Shades of the Nats game when we blew an eight run lead.

[UNCBlue012]

Really. I am about to burst of anger.

[CyYoung31]

This sucks.

[UNCBlue012]

HAHAHA another EASY win. Yes, it should be. I don't understand Fredi. This is his fault. Bad pitching, but worst managing.

[Braves1976]

If we lose this and Fredi isn't fired after losing another heartbreaker we should of won, nothing will get him gone.

[USMA76]

This sucks.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2015 Atlanta Braves bullpen.

[stpeteirish]

HAHAHA another EASY win. Yes, it should be. I don't understand Fredi. This is his fault. Bad pitching, but worst managing.

Salty only has on RBI on the year so...

[UNCBlue012]

DONT GIVE UP HITS OR SAC FLIES EITHER. Just work to get outs. Idiot pitchers too.

[WaitingFor2017]

Gomes decision hurting in multiple ways -- allowing Arizona to ultimately take the lead as well as his failure to add our 8th run.

[jsebe10]

He's certainly has to lose his job after this right? Teams make mid season manager changes all the time.

[UNCBlue012]

No Gomes switch, no Avilan change, we are winning. I'm pretty sure Cunningham gets that sac hit

[USMA76]

7-6, wow. We were up 6-0 against this garbage team.

Make it trailing 8-7--so angry I can't express myself.

[Braves1976]

He's certainly has to lose his job after this right? Teams make mid season manager changes all the time.

If they care about turning things around they'll fire him after this. But they should have a long time ago, so probably not going anywhere.

[UNCBlue012]

Going into an off day, I'm about to destroy everything. I'm so mad. I hate Fredi as our manager more than words can express.

[jpx7]

Once again, Fredi out-manages himself to a loss.

[USMA76]

Don't think there's enough there to overturn the call.

[UNCBlue012]

If we lose this, the BP has 11 loses. That's insane.

[USMA76]

If we lose this, the BP has 11 loses. That's insane.

Given that every bit of momentum is in Arizona's favor, I'd be shocked if we didn't lose this game.

[Braves1976]

EY Jr is useless now, even more than usual, because he rarely gets an AB even pinch hitting.

[Heyward]

If we lose this, the BP has 11 loses. That's insane.

Worst pen in baseball bar none.

At worst we have one of the WC spots with a decent pen, if not tied/in 1st.

[jpx7]

I don't even care if they roll with a twenty-three-man roster: just cut EY and Gomes.

[jsebe10]

I don't even care if they roll with a twenty-three-man roster: just cut EY and Gomes.

But but but but Gomes is doing so much for our youngins!!!!!!!!!

[Heyward]

7-6, wow. We were up 6-0 against this garbage team.

They lead the NL in runs scored, arent garbage.

[jsebe10]

This fckn umpire can swallow a dick too

[Braves1976]

But but but but Gomes is doing so much for our youngins!!!!!!!!!

Gomes is hitting .308 with a .890 OPS vs lefties. It's not his fault Fredi uses him too much, esp. vs righties. Gomes is a fine bench bat to start some games vs lefties and pinch hit. But you don't pinch hit him for a hot Cunningham in a 7-5 Braves game like crazy Fredi did.

[jsebe10]

Here comes Shoeless Jose Jacksion

[thethe]

Gomes is hitting .308 with a .890 OPS vs lefties. It's not his fault Fredi uses him too much, esp. vs righties. Gomes is a fine bench bat to start some games vs lefties and pinch hit. But you don't pinch hit him for a hot Cunningham in a 7-5 Braves game like crazy Fredi did.

when you are ahead you play run prevention not run scoring

[Runnin]

I was about to say at least we aren't walking anybody.

[Braves1976]

when you are ahead you play run prevention not run scoring

That was partly my point, you must consider both the fact that Cunningham is great defensively in LF and Gomes is DH type bad, plus Cunningham being hot is another reason to keep him in there. It was a stupid move by a bad manager.

[WaitingFor2017]

Good night

[CyYoung31]

Oh, my Jesus...

[USMA76]

Good night

When we're bad, we really suck.

[jsebe10]

When we're bad, we really suck.

Nah.

Just the manager and the Blowpen

[jpx7]

At least the Diamondbacks get the $11 I spent to watch Fredi manage me into an early grave.

[jsebe10]

Seriously though....how can he keep his job? They have to fire this guy b

[USMA76]

Fredi keeps his job because he has Bobby Cox in his corner. In this organization, that's better than having your father-in-law signing your paychecks.

[Heyward]

Seriously though....how can he keep his job? They have to fire this guy b

I agree but is it his fault the bullpen is the worst in baseball?

Is a new manager going to make it an average pen?

That is a huge problem.

[WaitingFor2017]

Fredi better not be on the plane back.

[Millwood1Hitter]

I agree but is it his fault the bullpen is the worst in baseball?

Is a new manager going to make it an average pen?

That is a huge problem.

You're right, the bullpen is AWFUL but Fredi makes it even worse with questionable decesion time after time and utilization of certain pitchers, not putting them into the slightest of situations to at least succeed on a consistant basis (or in this case more often than not basis).

[jsebe10]

I agree but is it his fault the bullpen is the worst in baseball?

Is a new manager going to make it an average pen?

That is a huge problem.

Agreed.

But a new manager could utilize this pen properly or get up in managements ass to rectify the issues. This all started with that Gomes OH...illogical managing is inexcusable.

[USMA76]

Well, three more outs until a two day break that will seem like an eternity thanks to two epic meltdowns in the last two days of this road trip.

[Braves1976]

You're right, the bullpen is AWFUL but Fredi makes it even worse with questionable decesion time after time and utilization of certain pitchers, not putting them into the slightest of situations to at least succeed on a consistant basis (or in this case more often than not basis).

Agreed. But it shouldn't be a surprise since Fredi had issues with our very good and even great bullpens. If you can screw up using a great bullpen then it should be expected he'd make a bad one look even worse.

[Buzzworm]

I believe this game was lost when fredi didn't let luis go out for the 7th and just burnt him after one batter.I mean we only have 3 decent relievers and he uses one to get one freaking batter out...I understand our bullpen is and will continue to be a dumpster fire but fredi helped lose this game with his great managing...

[Heyward]

You're right, the bullpen is AWFUL but Fredi makes it even worse with questionable decesion time after time and utilization of certain pitchers, not putting them into the slightest of situations to at least succeed on a consistant basis (or in this case more often than not basis).

Im not disagreeing Frediot should be fired but doesnt have a ton to work with in the bullpen to be fair.

[USMA76]

I guess our bullpen talent is really that bad. Roger McDowell does a pretty good job with our starters but I guess he just doesn't have much to work with in the BP.

[NinersSBChamps]

Just garbage bullpen arms continue to pitch for this team. What a joke.

[Garmel]

I agree but is it his fault the bullpen is the worst in baseball?

Is a new manager going to make it an average pen?

That is a huge problem.

You don't put in a guy like Gomes with weak defense late in games when you have a lead. Cunningham was hot at the plate. Why pinch hit for him?

[Braves1976]

Im not disagreeing Frediot should be fired but doesnt have a ton to work with in the bullpen to be fair.

No one here has said he has a ton to work with or even close to that..

[thethe]

What a gut wrenching Series.

[jsebe10]

And say goodbye to Bethancourt for another 2 weeks.

[nsacpi]

Fredi plus a bad bullpen is a lethal combination.

It seemed obvious to me Avilan (not Cunniff) should have pitched the 7th last night and Avilan should have stayed in for the 7th tonight. But hey I'm just a fan.

Usually Fredi is ok aside from the brutal pen management. But hitting Gomes for Cunningham was bad on so many levels. A shocker by Fredi all around today.

[USMA76]

Devastating, demoralizing, inexcusable loss; I feel ill.

[Runnin]

Fredi better not be on the plane back.
Good call.

[NinersSBChamps]

Really hard to lose games when your offense scores 6 and 8 runs. The Braves should pat themselves on the back for those types of games.

[jsebe10]

Yea but at what point do one of the position players step in out of frustration and acknowledge that "turd in the punchbowl"? They have got to be getting pissed!

[sc1767]

Wow a 6-0 lead when I tuned in.

[chop2chip]

The good news is that a surplus of good starting options usually leads to good future bullpens. There was always going to be negative consequences of using our bullpen to restock our minor league system. We can't have the best of both worlds.

[Buzzworm]

I would love to be a fly on the wall on the plane ride home...and definitely wouldnt wanna be one of the bullpen guys lol

[dak]

Fredi plus a bad bullpen is a lethal combination.

It seemed obvious to me Avilan (not Cunniff) should have pitched the 7th last night and Avilan should have stayed in for the 7th tonight. But hey I'm just a fan.

Usually Fredi is ok aside from the brutal pen management. But hitting Gomes for Cunningham was bad on so many levels. A shocker by Fredi all around today.

Agree with all this. A lot of blame to go around past couple games, but Fredi has made some legitimately bad decisions that cost the team. I've defended Fredi at times when folks have faulted him for poor player performances, but he owns a nice slice of what has been a demoralizing series.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Hopefully this is Hart's plan all along, let Fredi make his own bed in which he just shat it big time and has just proven what many of us have known for some time.

[thewupk]

Good thing I have no expectations this year otherwise I'd be mad. Fun team to watch though.

[USMA76]

Hopefully this is Hart's plan all along, let Fredi [defecate] his own bed.

FIFY

[Heyward]

You don't put in a guy like Gomes with weak defense late in games when you have a lead. Cunningham was hot at the plate. Why pinch hit for him?

Never defended that.

Already said Fredi should be gone.

Badly, badly managed series by Fredi.

Should have swept this series and be right in the thick of things in the WC race, but nope.

[NinersSBChamps]

I would love to be a fly on the wall on the plane ride home...and definitely wouldnt wanna be one of the bullpen guys lol

Why? The organization is spineless. Nothing is going to happen to Fredi. Hart basically said until 2017 we are content with not having a competent MLB team. Ownership seems to think that's alright.

[Braves1976]

Never defended that.

Already said Fredi should be gone.

Badly, badly managed series by Fredi.

Should have swept this series and be right in the thick of things in the WC race, but nope.

I'll give you credit for being fair here, good post.

[cajunrevenge]

When they said they were going back to the braves way we should have known that meant crap bullpens.

[The Chosen One]

We're lucky to have won two games in the Giants series. Barely won the LAD game 3. So it evens out. Baseball.

[nsacpi]

We're lucky to have won two games in the Giants series. Barely won the LAD game 3. So it evens out. Baseball.

So stoic. Marcus Aurelius would be proud of you.

[The Chosen One]

So stoic. Marcus Aurelius would be proud of you.

Not like I'm thrilled we lost this series when we fought back. Baseball is weird. Giants were playing great ball and now are on the verge of being swept because Crawford couldn't seal the deal against us.

[Julio3000]

I really thought that one thing we could take for granted was the fact that we could cobble a competitive bullpen.

Kimbrel trade, Simmons injury, PED suspensions, sure ... but this is just revolting.

[depley]

this is what happens when you trade 10 of your relief pitchers. What you have left is crap

[WaitingFor2017]

I posted this earlier, but it seems like the Braves piss away games in Arizona every single year. I think the Braves have a good overall record there, but the last few years have seen the Braves blow many saves in that park.

[jpx7]

We're lucky to have won two games in the Giants series. Barely won the LAD game 3. So it evens out. Baseball.

I'm just annoyed that this two-game stint drops me to something like 2-8 outside of Turner Field. I think I'm around 10-6 at Turner (and was 3-0 at Fulton).

I don't really care about the Braves record in 2015, but I do care about their all-time franchise record in my physical presence.

[The Chosen One]

I'm just annoyed that this two-game stint drops me to something like 2-8 outside of Turner Field. I think I'm around 10-6 at Turner (and was 3-0 at Fulton).

I don't really care about the Braves record in 2015, but I do care about their all-time franchise record in my physical presence.

Last two games I went to Chipper's number retirement we killed Zona and Ben Sheets start at home against LA he gave up back to back to back homers.

[weso1]

The good news is that this is one step closer to a slightly higher draft pick.

[Julio3000]

The good news is that this is one step closer to a slightly higher draft pick.

I don't know how much of that is jest, but it's a good point.

[57Brave]

Still not sure how Fredi lost this series -- or even a game.

The starters can't get out of the 6th inning and there is no bullpen to get to the closer -- not sure what people expect the manager to do.
Yet give the pitching coach a pass

Yesterdays radio broadcast Sutton brought up Grilli pitched 2 innings on the road trip

[Chipper]

Still not sure how Fredi lost this series -- or even a game.

The starters can't get out of the 6th inning and there is no bullpen to get to the closer -- not sure what people expect the manager to do.
Yet give the pitching coach a pass

Yesterdays radio broadcast Sutton brought up Grilli pitched 2 innings on the road trip

Exactly, for all of the **** thrown at Freddy for pitching problems, Roger gets a pass on everything?

[thewupk]

Exactly, for all of the **** thrown at Freddy for pitching problems, Roger gets a pass on everything?

I don't think the players are the main issue here. They just suck. Can't fix that. Roger doesn't put said players in the game. Fredi does. Fredi's management of the pen is the issue.

[UNCBlue012]

I don't think the players are the main issue here. They just suck. Can't fix that. Roger doesn't put said players in the game. Fredi does. Fredi's management of the pen is the issue.

THIS. The player's sucking so much, well, sucks. But, Fredi has to do his job and manage these situations better. Heck, at least manage the damage a little bit.

Last night: You keep the switch-hitting and solid defense playing Cunningham in; there is a good chance he drives in the run with RBI-ground/Sac-fly, we are up three runs. Then next inning the Dbacks get a lead off double off of a terrible misplay in the outfield where Gomes is located, that could be saved which would save at least a run and we are at the worst, tied. It's just small things.

[57Brave]

Let me understood

The players suck but the manager has to do a better job of managing the damage ?
They scored 8 runs yesterday ---
Fredi's 8th inning guy ( an MLB veteran with 50 saves 2 seasons ago ) threw a certain out into LF allowing the DBacks 9th run to score.
How was Fredi to manage that ?

The SP on his (what? ) 4 th MLB start blew a 6 run lead
He used his most effective reliever in the 6th to stop the bleeding. Leading to
an inconsistent RP in what was called on the radio "a high leverage situation"
Had FG not used said reliever the same people here would be all over the manager for not trusting a young pitcher. In "a high leverage situation"

As far as pinch hitting for Cunningham - he went with a veteran with a proven PH history. Not like he pinch hit Cameron Mayben or Nick Markakis
Hind sight says it didn't work. To my mind 9 out of 10 MLB managers given the same situation would have responded similarly

Let me repeat

the bullpen
the bullpen
the bullpen

young starters
young starters
young starters

[57Brave]

I don't think the players are the main issue here. They just suck. Can't fix that. Roger doesn't put said players in the game. Fredi does. Fredi's management of the pen is the issue.

What pen?

They have used maybe 15 guys out there and it is the first week of June.
Roles have been switched and re-switched looking for a combination that works.

2 issues here.
1) The manager has very little influence once the game begins. Unless of course he used Shelby Miller in the 6th yesterday or pinch hit for Freeman with Gomes

2) Every game is not the 7th game of the World Series

[smootness]

Let me understood

The players suck but the manager has to do a better job of managing the damage ?
They scored 8 runs yesterday ---
Fredi's 8th inning guy ( an MLB veteran with 50 saves 2 seasons ago ) threw a certain out into LF allowing the DBacks 9th run to score.
How was Fredi to manage that ?

The SP on his (what? ) 4 th MLB start blew a 6 run lead
He used his most effective reliever in the 6th to stop the bleeding. Leading to
an inconsistent RP in what was called on the radio "a high leverage situation"
Had FG not used said reliever the same people here would be all over the manager for not trusting a young pitcher. In "a high leverage situation"

As far as pinch hitting for Cunningham - he went with a veteran with a proven PH history. Not like he pinch hit Cameron Mayben or Nick Markakis
Hind sight says it didn't work. To my mind 9 out of 10 MLB managers given the same situation would have responded similarly

Let me repeat

the bullpen
the bullpen
the bullpen

young starters
young starters
young starters

I don't know how many times it has to be said, but Fredi is not the primary reason we're losing any of these games. I don't think anyone is suggesting he is. But you want your manager to at least help in you what little ways he can, and too often Fredi hurts us. That does matter.

Yes, Gomes hits lefties well and has done well as a pinch-hitter. But that was a decision that wasn't well thought out. We were up by 2 in the 7th. More important than offense at that point is run prevention. That is usually the point in the game where managers are subbing in defensive replacements. So it makes little sense to sub in arguably the worst defensive position player in all of baseball to a game like that, especially when Cunningham himself has a decent chance to come through offensively. Maybe not quite as good a chance as Gomes (though that's debatable given his recent success), but the potential uptick in offense there is not even close to worth the decrease in defense. And the decrease in defense hurt us.

So sure, that decision doesn't matter if we score 18 runs or if our starter shuts them down. But it does matter in a game like last night.

[57Brave]

Hank Bauer once was pinch hit for by Casey Stengal after going 3 for 3. Bauer came back to the dugout and slammed his bat in the rack and headed for Stengal. Bauer was a WWII Marine Sgt and a certified bad ass. Stengal cut him off half way down the dugout telling him "you've had a nice day son but last I check there aren't too many 1.000 hitters in this league "

Like I said pinch hitting for Cunningham, though seemingly un conventional to an EA Sports gamers eye , was not how the Braves lost yesterday.
At that point in the game, Cunningham was 2 for 2

////

Like Casey was want to say, "you can look it up"

[smootness]

Hank Bauer once was pinch hit for by Casey Stengal after going 3 for 3. Bauer came back to the dugout and slammed his bat in the rack and headed for Stengal. Bauer was a WWII Marine Sgt and a certified bad ass. Stengal cut him off half way down the dugout telling him "you've had a nice day son but last I check there aren't too many 1.000 hitters in this league "

Like I said pinch hitting for Cunningham, though seemingly un conventional to an EA Sports gamers eye , was not how the Braves lost yesterday.
At that point in the game, Cunningham was 2 for 2

Ok? Plenty of players have had 3-3 and 4-4 days. His previous success in the game does not change the percentage chance of him coming through there.

Again, I didn't say that taking Cunningham out was the reason we lost yesterday. I said it didn't help and actually actively hurt us. It mattered, and in a negative way. Again, it was shortsighted.

I'm not even talking about offensive impact. When you have one player, late in a close game you're winning, who is marginally better offensively but infinitely worse defensively, you don't sub that guy in. Because it decreases your chance of winning, even if only a little.