Which Issue(s) Do You Struggle Most With?

[acesfull86]

For me:

1) Abortion - I don't have a strong feeling about this issue, ie a candidate's stance on it will not make or break whether I support him/her, but I still think it's the most difficult issue to assume a position on. I can certainly sympathize with those who say "it's my body and I don't want the government to tell me what I can/can't do with it." If I was in that position, I'm sure I'd feel the same way. (As an aside, I do wish those women would extend that argument to other issues, but many do not). At the same time, I can sympathize with those who say it's murder. At some point between conception and birth, life begins. Once that point is reached, I do not think an abortion should be legal (unless maybe if the life of the mother was in danger). I feel like most folks would agree witht hat. But who the hell am I, or anyone else, to know where that point is? Some may say 8 months, some 4, some the millisecond after conception. I don't know. The safe position would probably be to assume life beginning earlier rather than later, though I find myself hedging my bets.

2) Taxation - as a libertarian, I think you should basically be able to do what you want unless your behavior causes direct harm to someone else. So murder, rape, theft, etc...no. Get high, get a high paying job while others are impoverished, marry someone of the same sex, etc...yes. It would be naive to suggest however, that the decisions we make in the marketplace never cause externalities. In theory, I think people should have to pay closer to the true social cost of their actions than they do now and taxation in this country would be better served targeting consumption rather than production. Maybe that means gas is an extra $x/gallon to reflect the true cost of the pollution (both emissions, and the decision to clog the road), but folks would keep more of the income they earn. On the macro level, tax receipts would be neutral (though if I had my way they would be much lower). You'd be raising costs on the people's behavior, but you would also be letting them keep more money in their pockets while giving them the choice as to how much to consume, given the true costs of their consumption.

Where I struggle with this idea is that it still involves a large amount of government oversight, plus the potential for manipulation. How do you determine the objective social cost of thousands and thousands of decisions? In theory, I believe one of the legitimate functions of the government is to correct market failures. But do I have faith that our elected officials can identify a legitimate market failure? No, not really. I think for many, the interpretation of "market failure" would be "outcome which doesn't conform to my preconceived notions, or which doesn't match what is in the best interest of my constituents, or which isn't the desired outcome of the labor or business leader who dropped off a bribe, etc, etc."

Further, even if you were able to identify the externality, price it correctly, collect the tax revenues, and move the market equilibrium to D = supply + social cost, there is still the issue of how do you distribute those revenues to those who are enduring the social cost? In some cases that task won't be difficult, but in others it will be easier said than done. And again, I struggle with the idea that government could efficiently and effectively carry this out. I do think it would be an improvement over our current models of taxation if we were to move in this direction, however.

Apologies for the certain typos/lack of eloquence...just killing time on my smartphone before a meeting. Not really looking to start debates, just wondering what political issues folks struggle with internally. I would think for those on the right, drug policy and other issues where freedom of the individual clashes with law and order would be difficult. For Democrats, I've often thought school choice would be a difficult issue to hash out. And for others, the issues I think are difficult might look cut and dry from a different perspective.

[sturg33]

I really don't struggle with many issues anymore because I try to make every issue about personal liberty. But your second point does bring up an interesting perspective from a macro point of view about affecting others indirectly.

With regards to abortion, it's pretty cut and dry for me. We all deserve the right to life as does that fetus. The fact that a doctor or a judge would consider pregnancies as an additional person, but the random mom who wants to abort is able to override that, doesn't sit well with me. I also hate how the entire decision is completely stripped of the father. It's ridiculous.

I struggle with climate change a bit. On the one hand, there seems to be evidence that it's a legit problem. On the other hand, we're less than 5% of the world's population, and there are no guarantees on how to fix it. It's seems like an enormous cost to address, with no guarantees it will actually help.

[Hawk]

1) The economy. I'm generally laissez-faire all the way, but also believe that the power of the government has the ability (sometimes) to do things better, quicker, and more efficiently. My opinions are constantly evolving here.

2) Affirmative Action. Not just specific to race, but also gender, age, religion, and sexual orientation. I recognize the inherent necessity of the concept, but tend to dislike how it has disenfranchised certain subsets and provided too clear a path for others.

3) Immigration. I like the idea of tough border control -- but embrace the traditional view of America as a nation of immigrants.

[Hawk]

I also hate how the entire decision is completely stripped of the father. It's ridiculous.

This. One of my good friends recently got somebody pregnant and begged and pleaded with her not to have an abortion. He's monied enough to have easily taken care of the child and just felt extremely convicted about accepting the consequence of his actions. The girl kind of strung him along and then all of a sudden one day she was just like, boom, it's done. It's been eating him alive for months now. Sad, really.

I think the male should have a say if he's willing and able to take the child, but wouldn't go further than that.

[sturg33]

This. One of my good friends recently got somebody pregnant and begged and pleaded with her not to have an abortion. He's monied enough to have easily taken care of the child and just felt extremely convicted about accepting the consequence of his actions. The girl kind of strung him along and then all of a sudden one day she was just like, boom, it's done. It's been eating him alive for months now. Sad, really.

I think the male should have a say if he's willing and able to take the child, but wouldn't go further than that.

But you can be sure if it were the other way around, the father would be on the hook for child support

[goldfly]

the males gave up their choice when they blew their load in her body

[Hawk]

the males gave up their choice when they blew their load in her body

Haha.

[Coredor]

I struggle with issues more because of complexity than philosophy. I make decisions based on what I see as pragmatic. For instance I struggle with foreign policy. I honestly don't know what to do about radicalism in the middle east. I'd prefer to be involved, but that ship has sailed because we're in too deep and some of these groups wouldn't miss a chance to take a shot at us if given the chance. I have very mixed feelings about Israel although for me U.S. interests are more important than anyone in the region from my perspective and I hate that they make it difficult to achieve peace. I honestly wouldn't care if we killed every Islamic radical and the people who sympathize with them, but obviously that's not realistic. I hate them, but I might negotiate with them if I felt it suited us. The only thing consistent about my philosophy on foreign policy is that I want to keep the U.S. safe and prosperous while expending as few resources both economic and human as possible. I'll hold my nose if I have to in order to accomplish that, but I really don't feel confident that I know what the right answer is.

People talk about abortion, but to me it's a very easy issue, and individual liberty is honestly a very small part of my opinion. Frankly I might horrify people on both sides of the issue, but I support abortion. Frankly my reason is that I like strong families although conservatives of this era would not be on board with my thinking. I want children born into supportive families who can raise them and help them to be law abiding and productive adults. Personally I think if you're a train wreck or you don't want kids you shouldn't have them. I also would very much prefer that children be born to married couples, and I think no one needs to have more than two kids although obviously you can't legislate that. I personally would beg people to use birth control and even incentivize sterilization to high risk individuals. I don't want criminals and drug addicts having a bunch of kids, and I don't want to pay for them either. If someone had children on drugs, was a serious child abuser, or neglected their children I'd give them a choice between sterilization or jail. Then as a society I'd do everything possible to help those were born into difficult circumstances overcome their situation and would be willing to put considerable resources into it. If you didn't have so many who needed help, you could do more for them. Of course I've probably ticked almost everyone off, but I'm not trying to pick a fight. That's honestly the way I feel about it.

[Runnin]

The girl kind of strung him along and then all of a sudden one day she was just like, boom, it's done. It's been eating him alive for months now. Sad, really.

I think the male should have a say if he's willing and able to take the child, but wouldn't go further than that.
The guy did have a say. He was able to talk to the girl plenty before and after he was banging her and had time to show her he was father material. He also had a say in what kind of girl he chose to plant his seed in.

Mother Nature rightly puts this decision with the mother. There's a lot more to consider than just having the money to afford raising a kid. If the mother aint into it it's probably a future train wreck of grief.

This is an easy issue as long as it's hypothetical. When it becomes a decision for one's own life and of course the life of a future person, I think the political/moral stance is often thrown out the window. I've seen a very conservative man force his daughter to have the abortion because he didn't approve of his future son-in-law. And I've seen very pro-choice women have to face the fact that they could never ever make that particular choice.

[Hawk]

The guy did have a say. He was able to talk to the girl plenty before and after he was banging her and had time to show her he was father material. He also had a say in what kind of girl he chose to plant his seed in.

You simply don't know that. Further, in most cases, it has literally next to nothing to do with whether or not the father is 'dad material'.

You point out a potential father as having 'chosen' to callously ejaculate into a woman, but don't appropriately share that blame in a world where women also have the option to a) take birth control (which, my friend, is now gratis for all) or b) take emergency contraception. If it gets to the point where you are actually talking about a pregnancy both sides are complicit.


Mother Nature rightly puts this decision with the mother. There's a lot more to consider than just having the money to afford raising a kid. If the mother aint into it it's probably a future train wreck of grief.

I agree with you in that when the parental unit is fractured it's a problematic situation for the upbringing of a child that goes far beyond money. That said, like Sturg mentioned earlier, you shouldn't use the same biological underpinnings which hold men responsible for their contribution to a pregnancy and then bewilderingly not make them applicable to women, too (especially under the guise of 'Mother Nature says' which is just kind of ... silly, not to mention scientifically incorrect).


This is an easy issue as long as it's hypothetical. When it becomes a decision for one's own life and of course the life of a future person, I think the political/moral stance is often thrown out the window. I've seen a very conservative man force his daughter to have the abortion because he didn't approve of his future son-in-law. And I've seen very pro-choice women have to face the fact that they could never ever make that particular choice.

I generally have no problem with abortion itself, but this has less to do with the act itself and more to do with individual rights. I'm not foolish enough to believe that you can ever force a women who doesn't want a child to bring one to full-term, but we should strive to be more acutely aware of underlying issues here and how both sides are affected in the process.

[BedellBrave]

Gotta love the right to take a human life...

And those who advocate for that right then giving us "oughts" and "shoulds." Yeah, right.

[goldfly]

Gotta love the right to take a human life...


who is advocating murder?

i only see some people talking about a fetus in this thread

[weso1]

Foreign policy. Such a complicated issue.

[cajunrevenge]

What I am struggling with is how we are going to avoid economic collapse with the increase in automation leading to less jobs. Making a product cheaper is great but you still need people with money to buy it. I really see no way that this doesnt end in economic collapse other than becoming more of a socialist state.

[BedellBrave]

Planned Parenthood - figures: Link if you dare (http://www.lifenews.com/2015/07/14/shock-video-catches-planned-parenthoods-top-doctor-selling-body-parts-of-aborted-babies/).

Selling those parts of "future human beings." Culture of death - yep. This country deserves to be damned.


Culture of death, of unbridled greed, of violence, racism...

[BedellBrave]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjxwVuozMnU

[BedellBrave]

"She eats and wipes her mouth, and says, 'I have done no wrong.'" — Pr. 30:20b

[BedellBrave]

"The release of a video showing Dr. Deborah Nucatola, Senior Director of Planned Parenthood's Medical Services Department, allegedly speaking of how to extract the body part of aborted children for commercial purposes is shocking but should not shock. Indeed, if you are shocked, you need to ask yourself why. It actually represents in miniature the quintessence of much of modern culture.

First, it is the logical outcome of the chaotic notion of the self that now rules in the West. If the self is a psychologically self-determined identity, then those incapable of such are not persons until such time as they can do so. Peter Singer has merely given systematic philosophical form to what many people unreflectively believe. Thus, if you call Bruce Jenner 'Caitlyn,' you have no right to be shocked.

Second, it is the logical outcome of denying personhood to the unborn child and maintaining that it is simply part of the mother's own body. Within such a framework, extracting body parts for commercial reasons is no more obnoxious than selling one's hair to a wig maker. If you typically talk about fetuses and not about unborn children, you have no right to be shocked.

Third, it is the logical outcome of individual sovereignty over our own bodies. If you believe that you have the right to do with your body what you will, sexually or otherwise, then you have no right to be shocked.

Fourth, it is the logical outcome of the commercialization of the body. If you watch pornography or if you think prostitution should be legalized, then you have no basis to find the commercial aspect of this action distasteful or morally objectionable. You have no right to be shocked.

Fifth, it is the logical outcome of a therapeutic world which has made the masters of medical technique into the moral philosophers of our society and where truth is identified with being cured, whether the ailment be physical or psychological. If it can be done and it if helps somebody somewhere, then not only ought it to be done - it must be done and to demur is immoral. If you think medical research trumps everything, you have no right to be shocked.

In fact, Planned Parenthood is not to be condemned. Surely it is to be congratulated for having so perfectly summarized the spirit of our age."


- See more at: http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2015/07/congratulating-planned-parenth.php#sthash.QHcdYM8s.dpuf

[Oklahomahawk]

Planned Parenthood - figures: Link if you dare (http://www.lifenews.com/2015/07/14/shock-video-catches-planned-parenthoods-top-doctor-selling-body-parts-of-aborted-babies/).

Selling those parts of "future human beings." Culture of death - yep. This country deserves to be damned.


Culture of death, of unbridled greed, of violence, racism...

Reverend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly very few seem to want to actually fix any of this, just to use those terrible things for their political or socioeconomic advantage, not to mention keep Americans firmly segregated and locked into their own little groups, we're easier to control that way...

[BedellBrave]

Makes me almost glad that Iran just kicked our butt.

[57Brave]

wow, this board has gone what, 2 weeks without a diatribe on how one persons view of a personal choice is another persons condemnation to eternal hell

Gotta love free speech -soap boxes whatknot - street corner preachin' - hell fire - brimstone
.....

How do you know Iran kicked our butt? The ink isn't even dry

[BedellBrave]

I just hope there weren't too many calories in her salad. Wouldn't want that.

[BedellBrave]

Unborn babies aren't human, but their organs are.

[BedellBrave]

wow, this board has gone what, 2 weeks without a diatribe on how one persons view of a personal choice is another persons condemnation to eternal hell

Gotta love free speech -soap boxes whatknot - street corner preachin' - hell fire - brimstone
.....

How do you know Iran kicked our butt? The ink isn't even dry


You mean Jeremiah Wright was wrong?

[goldfly]

Makes me almost glad that Iran just kicked our butt.

hold up

what? how so?

[zitothebrave]

This. One of my good friends recently got somebody pregnant and begged and pleaded with her not to have an abortion. He's monied enough to have easily taken care of the child and just felt extremely convicted about accepting the consequence of his actions. The girl kind of strung him along and then all of a sudden one day she was just like, boom, it's done. It's been eating him alive for months now. Sad, really.

I think the male should have a say if he's willing and able to take the child, but wouldn't go further than that.

When we can remove the fetus from the womb and have it grow in a tube or surrogate then it can be the man's choice (assuming he has a willing surrogate) it's not him that's going through all those changes to his body.

He could have offered to pay her and take care of the child. Bet she would have then. Basically paid her to be a surrogate.

[Hawk]

When we can remove the fetus from the womb and have it grow in a tube or surrogate then it can be the man's choice (assuming he has a willing surrogate) it's not him that's going through all those changes to his body.

He could have offered to pay her and take care of the child. Bet she would have then. Basically paid her to be a surrogate.

So now we're monetizing the fetus? Classy Zito.

[zitothebrave]

I don't really struggle with most of my issues. I mean of course there's a struggle to come to a point and there's grey area to fuss with. But what I more struggle with is prioritizing my beliefs to find a viable candidate. On the isidewith quiz, my top 2 who weren't too far apart were Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul. Totally opposite ends of the spectrum, but I tend to be more Green party in terms of many domestic policies (though not all, in no shape way or form should student loans be paid for, if the government wants t orun schools, run them, don't give money to other schools) but I'm more libertarian in my foreign policy and personal liberties side.

If I had to pick on where I'd wind up on many issues they kind of fly a bit all over the board. For example I'm 100% with the libertarians on ending the Fed, but I believe in a central bank ran by the government. To me it's asinine we're lining rich bankers pockets to print money.

[zitothebrave]

So now we're monetizing the fetus? Classy Zito.

Hardly, but it's not his choice, his body isn't going through everything, hers is. Even if he agreed to take care of the kid 100%, doesn't incentivize her to go through all the trials of pregnancy.

[Hawk]

Hardly, but it's not his choice, his body isn't going through everything, hers is. Even if he agreed to take care of the kid 100%, doesn't incentivize her to go through all the trials of pregnancy.

Doesn't matter, it's still his child.

[zitothebrave]

Doesn't matter, it's still his child.

In the sense that he makes up half of the DNA. She has to carry all of the gruntwork, and there's a totally different maternal bond to a child than paternal.

[Hawk]

In the sense that he makes up half of the DNA. She has to carry all of the gruntwork, and there's a totally different maternal bond to a child than paternal.

I haven't disputed that -- but you are basically saying that the child is more the mother's because she has to birth it. That's a dangerous baseline to establish.

[zitothebrave]

I haven't disputed that -- but you are basically saying that the child is more the mother's because she has to birth it. That's a dangerous baseline to establish.

Pregnancy is almost entirely on the mother, she has the option to terminate it. He doesn't have a say in the pregnancy aside from starting it. What you're arguing is the child, meaning a semi-self sufficient life force, what I'm arguing is a fetus, which is for at least 20 some odd weeks, entirely dependent on the mother. As I said, when they can extract the fetus and grow it in a lab or in a surrogate then you'd have a case to the man having a choice. In reality, he doesn't.

[Hawk]

Pregnancy is almost entirely on the mother, she has the option to terminate it. He doesn't have a say in the pregnancy aside from starting it. What you're arguing is the child, meaning a semi-self sufficient life force, what I'm arguing is a fetus, which is for at least 20 some odd weeks, entirely dependent on the mother. As I said, when they can extract the fetus and grow it in a lab or in a surrogate then you'd have a case to the man having a choice. In reality, he doesn't.

No, we're not arguing fetus/child at all. I'm using the term child because I find the 'fetus' characterization to be boringly PC as well as indelicate to the seriousness of the situation. What we ARE arguing is responsibility -- and the idea that somehow doesn't come into effect for a man until after the child is born doesn't really jibe with me.

[zitothebrave]

No, we're not arguing fetus/child at all. I'm using the term child because I find the 'fetus' characterization to be boringly PC as well as indelicate to the seriousness of the situation. What we ARE arguing is responsibility -- and the idea that somehow doesn't come into effect for a man until after the child is born doesn't really jibe with me.

Why does it? Man can just bail on the woman during pregnancy with no ill consequences to his health. Sure he'll have to pay child support but that's there regardless. Explain how the man is responsible for the fetus in the womb aside from a few minutes of sex?

[Hawk]

Why does it? Man can just bail on the woman during pregnancy with no ill consequences to his health. Sure he'll have to pay child support but that's there regardless. Explain how the man is responsible for the fetus in the womb aside from a few minutes of sex?

We're in 2015, not 1950. Birth control and pregnancy tests are free and readily available. Plan B is affordable, and given the proclivities of our government will probably eventually be free too. The woman has plenty of time to prevent a pregnancy from occurring.

And again, I've not said that we should force a woman to carry the child, but there's got to be a better answer (aside from weird-ass surrogate talk).

[zitothebrave]

We're in 2015, not 1950. Birth control and pregnancy tests are free and readily available. Plan B is affordable, and given the proclivities of our government will probably eventually be free too. The woman has plenty of time to prevent a pregnancy from occurring.

And again, I've not said that we should force a woman to carry the child, but there's got to be a better answer (aside from weird-ass surrogate talk).

Your first paragraph is just nonsensical rhetoric. It doesn't add anything to the discussion at hand. Kudos.

There is a solution, the woman is responsible for th epregnancy. A man shouldn't be able to tell her to term it or keep it.

[Hawk]

Your first paragraph is just nonsensical rhetoric. It doesn't add anything to the discussion at hand. Kudos.

There is a solution, the woman is responsible for th epregnancy. A man shouldn't be able to tell her to term it or keep it.

Lol, it's the crux of the entire issue.

[zitothebrave]

Lol, it's the crux of the entire issue.

No it isn't. Tons of things can happen to cause pregnancy. We have birth control, but it fails. We have plan B but if you think said Birth Control works, then why get it? Not to mention what if a woman was blackout drunk and had sex and doesn't remember it? What if the man is someone who said he had a vasectomy but didn't? What if the vasectomy didn't take? I could put a ton of theoretical scenarios.

[Hawk]

No it isn't. Tons of things can happen to cause pregnancy. We have birth control, but it fails. We have plan B but if you think said Birth Control works, then why get it? Not to mention what if a woman was blackout drunk and had sex and doesn't remember it? What if the man is someone who said he had a vasectomy but didn't? What if the vasectomy didn't take? I could put a ton of theoretical scenarios.

Yeah, it is. The point has sailed way over your head and now it seems like you are grasping at straws. I'm talking about accountability here, nothing more, nothing less.

And those would be exceptions to the norm, which is two people ****ing without a condom (which feels so damn good, but is so damn stupid).

[zitothebrave]

Yeah, it is. The point has sailed way over your head and now it seems like you are grasping at straws. I'm talking about accountability here, nothing more, nothing less.

And those would be exceptions to the norm, which is two people ****ing without a condom (which feels so damn good, but is so damn stupid).

No the point is that you think a man should have a say in an abortion, I don't. Your reason is cause of a friend would be willing to support the child she shouldn't have ended the pregnancy. My point of counter is that the man has no physical attachment to that unborn child, he couldn't possibly comprehend the trials and tribulations the woman goes through to make that decision.

I'm sorry you're dead wrong here, I've played coy long enough. Just gonna shut the door here. The only person who has a say in an abortion is the woman and incertain instances a legal representative (say comatose, under age of consent, so on so forth) Sorry your friend was torn up over that experience, but that doesn't even remotely represent an issue to me.

[Hawk]

No the point is that you think a man should have a say in an abortion, I don't. Your reason is cause of a friend would be willing to support the child she shouldn't have ended the pregnancy. My point of counter is that the man has no physical attachment to that unborn child, he couldn't possibly comprehend the trials and tribulations the woman goes through to make that decision.

I'm sorry you're dead wrong here, I've played coy long enough. Just gonna shut the door here. The only person who has a say in an abortion is the woman and incertain instances a legal representative (say comatose, under age of consent, so on so forth) Sorry your friend was torn up over that experience, but that doesn't even remotely represent an issue to me.

I guess I'll play too: If you actually have been duped into believing that a man isn't physically/emotionally invested in conception then I feel sorry for whoever you eventually impregnate (assuming that you want to be a father -- and you should).

Again, for the umpteenth time, it's not about comparing who 'has it worse' or who has 'more to lose' -- it's the really ****ing simple acknowledgment of the fact that it takes two to tango and that both parties need to accept the potential consequence together. There needs to be dialogue, and it shouldn't be this decision which is treated lightly. That's the point man, I don't know how much clearer I can spell it out.

I'm not talking about:

- A man forcing a woman to have an unwanted child.
- The government intervening in the process.
- Surrogates
- Transplants

It's amazing that your head is so far up your ass, I guess trying to defend women's rights (which is applaudable and something that most people don't continue to argue for outside of abortion), that you've completely lost track of the entire concept of rights. Even loosely, in the context of this discussion.

My friend's plight brought the issue forefront, it's not the sole reason why I feel the way that I do. Don't be daft.

[Runnin]

Life isn't perfect.

Carry on.

[zitothebrave]

I guess I'll play too: If you actually have been duped into believing that a man isn't physically/emotionally invested in conception then I feel sorry for whoever you eventually impregnate (assuming that you want to be a father -- and you should).

Again, for the umpteenth time, it's not about comparing who 'has it worse' or who has 'more to lose' -- it's the really ****ing simple acknowledgment of the fact that it takes two to tango and that both parties need to accept the potential consequence together. There needs to be dialogue, and it shouldn't be this decision which is treated lightly. That's the point man, I don't know how much clearer I can spell it out.

I'm not talking about:

- A man forcing a woman to have an unwanted child.
- The government intervening in the process.
- Surrogates
- Transplants

It's amazing that your head is so far up your ass, I guess trying to defend women's rights (which is applaudable and something that most people don't continue to argue for outside of abortion), that you've completely lost track of the entire concept of rights. Even loosely, in the context of this discussion.

My friend's plight brought the issue forefront, it's not the sole reason why I feel the way that I do. Don't be daft.

Most men I know with kids, they say the point the kid was real wasn't until birth, near birth, etc. I mean it was something they knew, but the whole it being their responsibility/part of them didn't hit until later. Unlike the woman who feels the effects almost immediately.

I know 0 women who have had an abortion who took it lightly. Everyone I know who's had one had many a sleepless night ahead of the procedure. Weighed pros, cons, so on so forth. Seriously the fact you imply abortion as being something handled lightly is asinine.

What rights are being tread upon by a woman choosing to have an abortion? Fetus? That's about it. That depends on if you think the fetus or pre-born child or whatever is a person or not. Which is a different debate then the original point I contested.

[BedellBrave]

"...Second, it is the logical outcome of denying personhood to the unborn child and maintaining that it is simply part of the mother's own body. Within such a framework, extracting body parts for commercial reasons is no more obnoxious than selling one's hair to a wig maker. If you typically talk about fetuses and not about unborn children, you have no right to be shocked...."

Spirit of the age and all.

[sturg33]

I just love that one woman can sue a doctor for doing damage to a 6-week old fetus, but another woman can have it vacuumed out.

Seems odd to me

[Krgrecw]

I can't understand how anyone who owns an average or smaller business or manages that said business ever votes democrat. It's like an NBA player voting to expand the three point line and wanting to raise the height of the rim.

[zitothebrave]

I just love that one woman can sue a doctor for doing damage to a 6-week old fetus, but another woman can have it vacuumed out.

Seems odd to me

How is that odd? It makes perfect sense when you factor in this important thing called context.

[Coredor]

I just love that one woman can sue a doctor for doing damage to a 6-week old fetus, but another woman can have it vacuumed out.

Seems odd to me

A woman can sue a doctor for damaging her body also. If you consider the fetus part of her body, she's suing for an injury to herself not to a baby. However if she consents to it then it's a consensual medical procedure performed on her. You may not like it, but it's not logically inconsistent with the general thought patterns pro-choice people have.

[zitothebrave]

I can't understand how anyone who owns an average or smaller business or manages that said business ever votes democrat. It's like an NBA player voting to expand the three point line and wanting to raise the height of the rim.

Girlfriend's parents are democrats, run a small business. Vermont is ran by democrats and is often cited as one of the best states to live in because there's things like very low violent crime, great health, etc.

[Runnin]

You simply don't know that. Further, in most cases, it has literally next to nothing to do with whether or not the father is 'dad material'.

You point out a potential father as having 'chosen' to callously ejaculate into a woman, but don't appropriately share that blame in a world where women also have the option to a) take birth control (which, my friend, is now gratis for all) or b) take emergency contraception. If it gets to the point where you are actually talking about a pregnancy both sides are complicit.
A agree that the father, if he is known, should be contacted before any abortion and have the right to talk to the mother. But the mother should and likely always will have the swing vote.

[Runnin]

A woman can sue a doctor for damaging her body also.
I know a guy who went in for a hernia operation and came out with one testicle removed. And STILL didn't sue.

[sturg33]

A woman can sue a doctor for damaging her body also. If you consider the fetus part of her body, she's suing for an injury to herself not to a baby. However if she consents to it then it's a consensual medical procedure performed on her. You may not like it, but it's not logically inconsistent with the general thought patterns pro-choice people have.

Fine... if I run over a pregnant woman with my car, I have two counts of man slaughter

[sturg33]

How is that odd? It makes perfect sense when you factor in this important thing called context.

No it doesn't. It allows a crackhead 17 year old to determine if something is a life or not.

[bravesnumberone]

Maybe the thread should have been "What issues do you struggle with besides abortion?"

[thethe]

I struggle with how to view moderate Muslims that don't do enough to stand against the tyranny of their religiously dominated governments and fanatical terrorist groups.

Does that make them partially responsible for the terror they inflict?

[Hawk]

Maybe the thread should have been "What issues do you struggle with besides abortion?"

Today I'm feeling sterilization.

[BedellBrave]

Maybe the thread should have been "What issues do you struggle with besides abortion?"


Millennials

[zitothebrave]

Millennials

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uzLml7JdQDQ/maxresdefault.jpg

[zitothebrave]

No it doesn't. It allows a crackhead 17 year old to determine if something is a life or not.

So you'd rather have that crackhead 17 year old be responsible for a child? As a libertarian I'm sure you wouldn't CPS involved when she neglects the child.

And that's a highly irrelevant difference to the context of the question you asked.

You're comparing a voluntary operation, to being forcibly aborted. THat's the difference.

To compare, you're saying that someone buying your car, coming to your house, and picking it up, is equivalent to car jacking.

[sturg33]

So you'd rather have that crackhead 17 year old be responsible for a child? As a libertarian I'm sure you wouldn't CPS involved when she neglects the child.

And that's a highly irrelevant difference to the context of the question you asked.

You're comparing a voluntary operation, to being forcibly aborted. THat's the difference.

To compare, you're saying that someone buying your car, coming to your house, and picking it up, is equivalent to car jacking.

Well if your concern is that the crackhead can't take care of the kid, why don't we kill it after its born?

The fact that nobody is comfortable putting a line on when it's ok and when it's not speaks for itself.

My GF's mom is an OBGYN, and is pro-choice... but refuses to perform one herself. That's telling to me.

[zitothebrave]

Well if your concern is that the crackhead can't take care of the kid, why don't we kill it after its born?

The fact that nobody is comfortable putting a line on when it's ok and when it's not speaks for itself.

My GF's mom is an OBGYN, and is pro-choice... but refuses to perform one herself. That's telling to me.

What are you talking about? This post is 3 disjointed thoughts that don't address the point I made.

You didn't address my point, what's the difference between (I'll make it even more simple) giving a car to someone and being carjacked? Either way the car is out of your hands.

[sturg33]

What are you talking about? This post is 3 disjointed thoughts that don't address the point I made.

You didn't address my point, what's the difference between (I'll make it even more simple) giving a car to someone and being carjacked? Either way the car is out of your hands.

I don't know where your dumb car thing came from to be honest... so I didn't bother responding to it.

Why does one woman in one hospital room get the attention of 10 doctors trying to save the life of a fetus during a miscarriage, where a woman in the room next door decides that fetus should be destroyed.

That's ass backwards - to steal a line from our friend ESP

[BedellBrave]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uzLml7JdQDQ/maxresdefault.jpg


Dang straight. The whole sophomoric lot of 'm.

[AerchAngel]

All of them from both sides.

I am afraid our country is going to suffer in my lifetime because of it.

How I see it bluntly....the Liberals want the rich to pay for everything and for a good reason.
The greedy Conversatives want to be the richest in the world and do not care how they obtain it. With wealth you obtain power and when you have all power as they say in Spider Man, with power comes responsibility and the rich Neo-Cons have the faintest clue on what that is.
Wait you Liberals need to pull up your pants and stop thinking about social issues because they don't pay your paycheck. You honestly think the greedy Republicans really care about that? No, they don't, Gov Walker is an exploiting fool and I can't stand him. Yes he was better than the rube Dem he replaced but he still a little short ( met and shook his hand) Napolean bastard I would never vote for. My wife doesn't like it, but she never met him face to face like I.

This is why it is tough for me to vote for either side, they have so many warts.

[zitothebrave]

I don't know where your dumb car thing came from to be honest... so I didn't bother responding to it.

Why does one woman in one hospital room get the attention of 10 doctors trying to save the life of a fetus during a miscarriage, where a woman in the room next door decides that fetus should be destroyed.

That's ass backwards - to steal a line from our friend ESP

Because woman one wants the baby, woman two doesn't. How is that ass backwards. It makes perfect logical sense to me. It's not as if woman in room two wants the fetus of the woman in room one's to be destroyed.

THere's this thing called consent, it is pretty damned important.

What you're basically saying is woman A agreed to have sex with a partner, woman B doesn't but is still forced to. What's the difference it's just sex.

[Gary82]

Millennials

This pleases me.

[njc108]

Hmmm can we move off of the topic of abortion for awhile. I just find it funny how guys in this thread are passionate about this topic yet none of you have a uterus to carry a baby. I really think WOMEN and mainly women should have a say with what they should be able to do with their bodies. NOT men. I mean hell we don't tell you how to control your privates. Stay out of my female parts....I'm just saying.... lol


Anyway can we talk about BLACK WOMEN!!!! This is an issue I struggle with daily. Most people in the world ignore, deny, disrespect and abandon us. From slavery times we were treated like dirt (Can't say dogs because white people treat their pets like kings/queens). We were raped and broken as individuals. In the 20th Century we were told that our bodies, hair, and skin tone was ugly. That true beauty was to look as close as possible to European women. In the entertainment industry we can't have locks or our natural hair because its considered "dirty". Big butts/lips are nasty but beautiful on white women. If you stand up for yourself than you are just a typical black woman with an attitude. Besides Black Women in America do not matter since we are all supposedly stupid and on welfare. Hell to get recognized for an award we have to look white (hair, figure etc), be slaves, maids, wh@res, loud mouths/sassy attitudes, or best friends of the "hot white" lead chick. I mean look at the crap they said about the African actress from 12 years a slave. Oh she speaks so well.... oh she is so beautiful even with that skin tone and non European hair styling. WTF that is some of the nonsense that I have heard. HELLO there are many more black women out there that look just like her and can speak "well". RME we are not all on welfare. There is data out there that there is a rise in Black Women attending and graduating from college. I have my Masters from Rutgers and will be eventually working on my doctorate. Single black women who are buying homes and working full time jobs in demanding career fields. But the facts remain the same we are on the lowest rung in society. Our accomplishments and struggles continue to be ignored.


Even on this board the disrespect has occurred. Were are the Sandra Bland threads? I do not care how much mouth she gave to the officer. He should have wrote her a warning and told her to move on with her funky ass attitude. There was NO need to tell her to get out of her car, pull a gun on her, then slam her on the ground. There is NO WAY in hell I buy that she committed suicide. Stats show that we as black women do not commit this act in a large number. But if we do we damn sure wont be hanging ourselves. If she was a white woman this story would be the main topic each and every day until the cop(s) involved were fired and arrested. I am not just blaming whites or the media. NOPE... where are all of the black men? Do not forget that we black women supported the blacklivesmatter movement too.

Anyway I know this post will be ignored because most of the guys in here probably never thought about a black woman in positive terms. The disrespect of black women may not affect your lives. But just understand this...If we have an attitude, its for good reasons.

*Sorry if my post is all over the place. Been driving most of the night to get back to So. Ga. YAY I might be moving to North GA where I can become a season tix holder for the Braves. I went from NJ gal to moving to FL & So. GA. Oh so close but still so far from the Braves. But now I'm so excited because I've always wanted season tixs to the Braves since a child watching with my Grandpa on good old TBS. *Happy Dance*

[thethe]

I don't see why its out of line to suggest that man should have some say in what is done after pregnancy. If the women didn't want to get pregnant so bad then she would have either not had sex with the man, forced him to wear protection(or protection of her own) or even taken birth control. All this talk about absentee fatherism and yet women want to push men away from one of the biggest decisions in both of their lives.

[thethe]

Also, nobody gets treated like a second class citizen if you act in a civilized manner.

I do agree with you on the physical appearance thing though. It is a shame that "beauty" is a defined idea. Beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and I wish that women actually looked at themselves and saw the beauty that they all have. Our society has destroyed women as a whole and fed them a pathetic lie of what life should be and what they should look like.

[Krgrecw]

Also, nobody gets treated like a second class citizen if you act in a civilized manner.

I do agree with you on the physical appearance thing though. It is a shame that "beauty" is a defined idea. Beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and I wish that women actually looked at themselves and saw the beauty that they all have. Our society has destroyed women as a whole and fed them a pathetic lie of what life should be and what they should look like.



Women do the same thing to men only women are more emotional about it.

[thethe]

Women do the same thing to men only women are more emotional about it.

I think as a whole men are more superficial than women.

[njc108]

Also, nobody gets treated like a second class citizen if you act in a civilized manner.

I do agree with you on the physical appearance thing though. It is a shame that "beauty" is a defined idea. Beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and I wish that women actually looked at themselves and saw the beauty that they all have. Our society has destroyed women as a whole and fed them a pathetic lie of what life should be and what they should look like.

WRONG!!!! See this is the point that many white people are missing about the whole BlackLivesMatter movement and why it will continue to gain steam. There are PLENTY of black people who act in decent ways towards authority and people of all races etc. That respect is NOT given back to us. Look at what happened to Oprah several years ago. The woman is rich as sin and disrespected in a high end store because of the color of her skin. We are treated like second class citizens no matter if we act in a civilized manner or not. But we have has ENOUGH!!!! So when you see the attitude we are simply telling you that we are tired of the BS. I can bet you almost every black man who post here can tell you their personal stories about racism. It does not matter if you are rich, college educated, and speak perfect english. Society through media, entertainment and as a whole has told us that being black in America is a sin. No matter how successful we may become...as Kanye stated "Even in a Benz you still a Nigg@ in a coup" to white America.

Sandra Bland did nothing wrong to warrant that treatment. It is time that White people in America make a change. If they want to crush the BlackLivesMatter movement than many have to start treating black people better. Heal the rifts with the Black Community. At the end of the day NOTHING that Ms. Bland did was uncivilized. She demanded explanation. The cop never gave her the reason but because she was a "black" that B!tch need to be put in her place by being treated like dirt. Having an attitude does not make one uncivilized.

[57Brave]

Also, nobody gets treated like a second class citizen if you act in a civilized manner.

.

The disconnect

[The Chosen One]

Reminds me when I acted civilized a few years ago, cops had their weapons pointed at me, handcuffed me and had 8 patrol vehicles come at 2am because the rookie ID'd the wrong plate by a few characters.

[AerchAngel]

WRONG!!!! See this is the point that many white people are missing about the whole BlackLivesMatter movement and why it will continue to gain steam. There are PLENTY of black people who act in decent ways towards authority and people of all races etc. That respect is NOT given back to us. Look at what happened to Oprah several years ago. The woman is rich as sin and disrespected in a high end store because of the color of her skin. We are treated like second class citizens no matter if we act in a civilized manner or not. But we have has ENOUGH!!!! So when you see the attitude we are simply telling you that we are tired of the BS. I can bet you almost every black man who post here can tell you their personal stories about racism. It does not matter if you are rich, college educated, and speak perfect english. Society through media, entertainment and as a whole has told us that being black in America is a sin. No matter how successful we may become...as Kanye stated "Even in a Benz you still a Nigg@ in a coup" to white America.

Sandra Bland did nothing wrong to warrant that treatment. It is time that White people in America make a change. If they want to crush the BlackLivesMatter movement than many have to start treating black people better. Heal the rifts with the Black Community. At the end of the day NOTHING that Ms. Bland did was uncivilized. She demanded explanation. The cop never gave her the reason but because she was a "black" that B!tch need to be put in her place by being treated like dirt. Having an attitude does not make one uncivilized.

Okay we are going to fight. As a black man that dated many black women, we have a disagreement on how treatment is assessed. My finding that beautiful women like and smart want us black men to be equals in pay and stature. You might not be the case, but if you really look at it, I DON'T BLAME THEM, but don't throw stones unless you go full monty on it. Also it is a power struggle, again, I agree with the women because we basically effed it up. I mean I almost got married to a black woman who I grew up with and loved to death, but when she got her papers and what not, she changed. I had my papers and she made more than me and then the demands. I thought to myself could I constantly live with that. I decided not to. She was livid when I called it off and just berated every black man in four states. Dogs, idiots, stupid and other names I can't even put on here. All I said to her is why did you change, I was faithful which she acknowledged (well she would have Bobitt me if I did anything) and treated her like a queen, she wanted more. What could I possibly do? She said get a better paying job.

So do not say we do not respect you, just the broke azz nogs that don't want to keep their dick in their pants without protection and those who doesn't want to work.

I went to our warehouse, of the 100 blacks that live in this city including me there is 3 of us that work in the company, there are a two in the warehouse (no, I don't know them, I am an office person) doing a great job and I asked the supervisor about one I saw and pointed him out. How is he doing, he said great worker, wish I had more, then corrected himself, more like him in work ethics not just blacks. Good catch by him. But when I went to him (black guy), I ask how is the company treating you, he said really well. I asked if he had other brothers that need jobs, he said yeah and I said why don't they apply, the pay is good almost double minimum wage. The look he gave me is what I thought, he said that they DID NOT WANT to work.

I can see why some black successful females have problem with black males. The females will work unlike us and if they have kids, a lot of them would work 2 and 3 jobs unlike the deadbeat black dads (ones you see on Springer and Maury) to make sure their kids have the best.

Sorry if I pissed you off Jersey Girl, just keeping it real.

[AerchAngel]

Reminds me when I acted civilized a few years ago, cops had their weapons pointed at me, handcuffed me and had 8 patrol vehicles come at 2am because the rookie ID'd the wrong plate by a few characters.

Same thing, but they did not touch me, or someone would have been fired.

I love getting an apology from the chief of police when his keystone cops had too much DWB on the brain.

[AerchAngel]

Sandra Bland (blood is boiling)

You do not see riots but what the cops did was beyond what we saw recently.

Blacks RARELY commit suicide and females it is nonexistent.

They edit the tapes trying to hide something.

Sorry Jersey Girl, didn't know you were talking about this. I am too angry to address this now.

[Hawk]

Reminds me when I acted civilized a few years ago, cops had their weapons pointed at me, handcuffed me and had 8 patrol vehicles come at 2am because the rookie ID'd the wrong plate by a few characters.

Well, I hope you sued.

[zitothebrave]

Women do the same thing to men only women are more emotional about it.

I feel like you dont' know what you're talking about. That's not a question, that's a statement. ALl you have to do is see that dad bodies is a trend, but mom bodies isn't.

[AerchAngel]

Well, I hope you sued.

I would have. Hence why they did not even attempt to put cuffs on me. Drawing guns and going through their stupid sobriety tests when I was designated driver was absurd. But of course I did Sandra Bland them afterwards, only difference they killed her and let me go and I was WAY worse with them. I called them all kind of names, Keystone Cops was one of them. Only the black cop came to me and told me to shut up, I made my case, but he understood how pissed I was.

Yeah, I could have complained to the media, but Obama wasn't in charge then so it would amount to nothing, today, I probably won a few million for DWB under false pretenses making me go through that bullsiht and drawing a weapon on me.

[The Chosen One]

Well, I hope you sued.

I plan on running for Mayor in 20 years. Don't want a lawsuit with the cops to be in the archives.

[njc108]

Well, I hope you sued.

What happens if you are a low income black person who does not have the time nor money to sue? At the end of the day lawyers want $$$$. Situations like that happen all the time unfortunately many minorities let it go because of those reasons and many more. Being treated like that is a normal part of life for some of us Americans.

[Hawk]

What happens if you are a low income black person who does not have the time nor money to sue? At the end of the day lawyers want $$$$. Situations like that happen all the time unfortunately many minorities let it go because of those reasons and many more. Being treated like that is a normal part of life for some of us Americans.

Mandatory Pro Bono service / ACLU / contact local politician.

I think most people have time to write a letter. Don't you?

[57Brave]

Draw a picture.

18 year old black man walks into a court room with long hair and a Pro Bono lawyer and pleads to a judge that a white officer used undue force or spoke to him in the words of Woody Guthrie "a manner rather rude...".

Or even better, said young black man writes a letter.
Suppose, Trayvon Martin wrote a letter to the police saying a security guard was creeping him out ...

Some things in life never change -- generation to generation,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4YKUJZI5Bg

Of course there is a racial disconnect but please don't overlook the economic disconnect

[njc108]

Mandatory Pro Bono service / ACLU / contact local politician.

I think most people have time to write a letter. Don't you?

Some of you guys are living in a nice safe world. But the reality for many of us minorities is vastly different. *Shrugs* that's white privilege for ya. People may have time to write a letter but where will that letter end up? More than likely in the trash can or under a stack that is already piled high.

Why should a person contact the media, lawyers, or local politicians. The police department should investigate and take the proper action. But because of the tight association that the brothers in blue have nothing gets done. I am not here to attack the cops. I am an officers daughter. But these bad cops need to be dealt with. Not put on desk duty, fired and then hired in another area.

Trust me if Black folks and other minorities go around suing for all the racist situations they encounter on a daily basis than no town, city, or state would have any money. A lot of us just do not want to deal with any backlash from suing. Winning a case will not stop more and more bad cops from being racist jackasses.

[Julio3000]

Mandatory Pro Bono service / ACLU / contact local politician.

I think most people have time to write a letter. Don't you?


Mandatory Pro Bono service / ACLU / contact local politician.

I think most people have time to write a letter. Don't you?

You do make it sound pretty simple. Ever worked in or experienced that system from either side? It's not as if there is a queue of high-end lawyers from tony firms outside the jailhouse waiting to do pro-bono work. You may hit the lottery with that letter to a politician. Good luck.

I think that njc108 has a valid point. Unless there are obvious dollar signs oozing out of your case, legal help is harder to come by than you portray it.

[Hawk]

You do make it sound pretty simple. Ever worked in or experienced that system from either side? It's not as if there is a queue of high-end lawyers from tony firms outside the jailhouse waiting to do pro-bono work. You may hit the lottery with that letter to a politician. Good luck.

I think that njc108 has a valid point. Unless there are obvious dollar signs oozing out of your case, legal help is harder to come by than you portray it.

I have a legal background. I've worked in the system. So, yeah, I do believe it's that simple. But my 'experience' -- just like my personal racial 'experience' -- is irrelevant.

This notion that you need premium representation is wrong-headed. In fact, if your case is egregious then the bigwigs will be lining up.

The idea that you need money to receive a strong defense just isn't true. You are vastly discounting the legal tools readily available to the under-privileged. But society can't force anybody to take advantage of these type of programs if they don't want to (and that's clearly the greater issue here).

[Hawk]

Some of you guys are living in a nice safe world. But the reality for many of us minorities is vastly different. *Shrugs* that's white privilege for ya. People may have time to write a letter but where will that letter end up? More than likely in the trash can or under a stack that is already piled high.

Why should a person contact the media, lawyers, or local politicians. The police department should investigate and take the proper action. But because of the tight association that the brothers in blue have nothing gets done. I am not here to attack the cops. I am an officers daughter. But these bad cops need to be dealt with. Not put on desk duty, fired and then hired in another area.

Trust me if Black folks and other minorities go around suing for all the racist situations they encounter on a daily basis than no town, city, or state would have any money. A lot of us just do not want to deal with any backlash from suing. Winning a case will not stop more and more bad cops from being racist jackasses.

I'm sorry that you have such a cynical view of your government, your police, and your fellow citizens.

[thethe]

I'm sorry that you have such a cynical view of your government, your police, and your fellow citizens.

Its easier to have that view than to see if its as bad as everyone says it is.

[AerchAngel]

I'm sorry that you have such a cynical view of your government, your police, and your fellow citizens.


Point is, she is telling the truth.

But I will take a line from her, it's a black thing and you wouldn't understand unless you magically transform yourself.

We live under a different world than you. I live in a different world from her, but my roots is intertwine with hers, so I know exactly what she is saying and my parents continue to remind me today even at my advance age.

I think the gist of this is that when you live as a black man/woman you are scrutinize by the white race and in some cases your own (aka Uncle Tom) and at times it is uncomfortable. Is some of it our own doing, of course, but we would like your kind to be more understanding and not automatically put a label on us. The old whites are really bad at that as I see it up here. Hell in church I can feel many eyes on me, my wife and my kids and the feeling, how can she marry my kind and have kids mentality.

It is what it is and I have to live in this world. I do no scrutinize your kind as I am indifferent knowing you all are not the same. But I can't say the same for whites when looking at blacks.

[AerchAngel]

Oh I tried to sue based on harassment and racial profiling.

No luck on lawyers in that regards. They want fees up front and not guaranteeing me an outcome. Basically lawyers are scammers to.

Maybe because I live in the North.

[Hawk]

Oh I tried to sue based on harassment and racial profiling.

No luck on lawyers in that regards. They want fees up front and not guaranteeing me an outcome. Basically lawyers are scammers to.

Maybe because I live in the North.

You never asked me for help.

[The Chosen One]

You never asked me for help.

You're a Republican. The only thing AA hates more than them are Democrats.

[AerchAngel]

You're a Republican. The only thing AA hates more than them are Democrats.

Yep, you can put it on the board, YES!!!

[Julio3000]

I have a legal background. I've worked in the system. So, yeah, I do believe it's that simple. But my 'experience' -- just like my personal racial 'experience' -- is irrelevant.

This notion that you need premium representation is wrong-headed. In fact, if your case is egregious then the bigwigs will be lining up.

The idea that you need money to receive a strong defense just isn't true. You are vastly discounting the legal tools readily available to the under-privileged. But society can't force anybody to take advantage of these type of programs if they don't want to (and that's clearly the greater issue here).

I'm curious to know what experience of yours has formed this opinion?

[Runnin]

Anyway can we talk about BLACK WOMEN!!!! This is an issue I struggle with daily. Most people in the world ignore, deny, disrespect and abandon us. From slavery times we were treated like dirt (Can't say dogs because white people treat their pets like kings/queens). We were raped and broken as individuals. In the 20th Century we were told that our bodies, hair, and skin tone was ugly. That true beauty was to look as close as possible to European women. In the entertainment industry we can't have locks or our natural hair because its considered "dirty". Big butts/lips are nasty but beautiful on white women. If you stand up for yourself than you are just a typical black woman with an attitude. Besides Black Women in America do not matter since we are all supposedly stupid and on welfare.
I can't deny any of that because it's not my experience, but I do know that the entertainment industry knows nothing about real beauty or real worth. The beauty it cares about is superficial and changes with the weather. Your self-worth is NOT your perceived worth in the marketplace. It's also very easy to project your fears and insecurities onto strangers. Be careful about assuming you know what huge swathes of people think about you. It's in our nature to always assume the worst. This is why it's so important to fill a kid's mind with confidence and a belief in herself before she has to face the cold world.

I don't pretend to know what it's like to be a Black woman in America, but as an aging White guy in a very racist and vain Asian country, I do know something about image and prejudice. You fight the battle one face at a time, one pair of eyes at a time, one heart at a time. My theory is if you can diffuse one person's prejudice, the ripple effect will be huge.

Society is afraid of feminine sexuality and power, and especially Black women who are perceived to possess more of it. (Don't know if that's true or not but it sounds right.) The entertainment industry has always put feminine beauty in an easily controlled box. It started with White women and when Black women came along they were force-fitted into the White woman's beauty mold. Seems to me that old paradigm is changing fast.

Please be careful if you ever have to deal with the police. That's not the time to unleash your attitude and demand respect, even if you are totally innocent, hell, especially if you are innocent. Use quiet grace and don't do anything to push them over the edge. They're supposed to be in control and protect you as much as they protect themselves, but they are stressed out and snap easily.

[Runnin]

I have a legal background. I've worked in the system. So, yeah, I do believe it's that simple. But my 'experience' -- just like my personal racial 'experience' -- is irrelevant.

This notion that you need premium representation is wrong-headed. In fact, if your case is egregious then the bigwigs will be lining up.

The idea that you need money to receive a strong defense just isn't true. You are vastly discounting the legal tools readily available to the under-privileged. But society can't force anybody to take advantage of these type of programs if they don't want to (and that's clearly the greater issue here).
And my computer keyboard and mouse is "readily available" to my 2 year old nephew but he can't read yet. Please explain how an under-privileged person in the system is supposed to know what tools they have and how to best use them without a well-paid expert.

[Hawk]

And my computer keyboard and mouse is "readily available" to my 2 year old nephew but he can't read yet. Please explain how an under-privileged person in the system is supposed to know what tools they have and how to best use them without a well-paid expert.

I think equating the under-privileged and the uneducated is the completely wrong mindset to take here.

I'm not sure where exactly the burden rests to 'show people how to use [the tools available]' beyond preexisting structures. Visit your local courthouse and speak to a clerk (who will likely refer you to a free legal clinic or provide you a list of attorneys that take pro-bono work). People mocked my suggestion of contacting a politician, but it's really not a ridiculous avenue. Reach out to a watchdog group. These people are going to guide you in the right direction and work toward getting you the assistance you need (if you require it at all).

What else do you expect?

BTW, you really don't need to know how to read in order to use a computer. I'd suggest letting your nephew loose ... you might be surprised what kind of ingenuity you are suffocating.