8/2/2015: SUNDAY BRAVES THREAD ... Phillies seek 4-game sweep on endless road trip

[rico43]

LINEUPS:


NOTLANTA

1. Cameron Maybin (R) CF
2. Eury Perez (R) RF
3. Freddie Freeman (L) 1B
4. Chris Johnson (R) 3B
5. Jonny Gomes (R) LF
6. Jace Peterson (L) 2B
7. Ryan Lavarnway (R) C
8. Daniel Castro (R) SS
9. Julio Teheran (R) P


PHILLY
1. Cesar Hernandez (S) 2B
2. Odubel Herrera (L) CF
3. Maikel Franco (R) 3B
4. Ryan Howard (L) 1B
5. Domonic Brown (L) RF
6. Freddy Galvis (S) SS
7. Cody Asche (L) LF
8. Cameron Rupp (R) C
9. Adam Morgan (L) P


Just heard that Ryne Sandberg asked to come work for the Braves so he could walk away from them, too.

[nsacpi]

Expecting a huge game from Lavarnway.

[thewupk]

What's sad about CJ being at cleanup is that he likely deserves it in this lineup

[nsacpi]

There is nothing sad here. This team plays the game the right way.

[USMA76]

The Phillies defense is just outstanding.

[thethe]

Nice to see Julio pitching aggresively.

[WaitingFor2017]

This Braves slide started with Luis Avilan giving up the go-ahead 3 run homer to Carlos Gomez in the 8th to lose that game to Milwaukee.

[Heyward]

:facepalm:

[Heyward]

Had to win a game eventually, smh

[WaitingFor2017]

Jace, get with the picture. That was your time to roll over to 2nd like always. We are trying to establish a losing culture the rest of the way.

You see what Lavarnway just did? That was the correct move. He had no shot at getting to 2nd, but he tried anyway just to end the inning.

[thethe]

Nice to see Jace turn on a ball. People are jumping off the bandwagon way too quickly.

[USMA76]

Had to win a game eventually, smh

Way too many outs left before this one's over, especially with the way Philly's been swinging the bats.

[Tapate50]

Delivery looks different, and barely hitting 91, but mostly in the 88-89 range

[thewupk]

Nice to see Jace turn on a ball. People are jumping off the bandwagon way too quickly.

I think peopled jumped on too quickly.

[USMA76]

This team is pretty much what we thought it would be. The thing that makes it tough was we got a false sense of optimism after the first eight to ten weeks when we were surprisingly competitive Now that we haven't won a game in a week and are routinely being beaten by five or more runs, it's hard not to get down on a team that will probably lose between 90 and 100 games.

[thethe]

This team is pretty much what we thought it would be. The thing that makes it tough was we got a false sense of optimism after the first eight to ten weeks when we were surprisingly competitive Now that we haven't won a game in a week and are routinely being beaten by five or more runs, it's hard not to get down on a team that will probably lose between 90 and 100 games.

Of course this has happened. Our best hitter was out for more than a m9nth and we sold off two of our bigger contributors to offense. Not to mention we lost our closer who was having an exceptional season. This idea that the posters who said we would suck this year we're right is asinine. Sure, we lacked impact full depth as a result of the trades but the team was a 500 team when healthy and prior to trades.

[weso1]

I think peopled jumped on too quickly.

Some went a little over board with who he was. He's likely more like a .260ish with a .330ish OBP and .350ish Slg. with above average defense and good speed. At league minimum that's a nice little player to have at 2b. If he's one of the worst starters on your team then you're doing ok. If he's one of the better starters on your team then you're not doing too great.

But because he's so cheap you can plug him in as a starter and spend money at other positions and you would still be ok.

[thewupk]

Of course this has happened. Our best hitter was out for more than a m9nth and we sold off two of our bigger contributors to offense. Not to mention we lost our closer who was having an exceptional season. This idea that the posters who said we would suck this year we're right is asinine. Sure, we lacked impact full depth as a result of the trades but the team was a 500 team when healthy and prior to trades.

And a team that was getting very luck with RISP which has tailed off. Also getting suprising strong seasons from KJ, AJ, and Maybin. In the end these things have a way of working themselves out.

[Julio3000]

Of course this has happened. Our best hitter was out for more than a m9nth and we sold off two of our bigger contributors to offense. Not to mention we lost our closer who was having an exceptional season. This idea that the posters who said we would suck this year we're right is asinine. Sure, we lacked impact full depth as a result of the trades but the team was a 500 team when healthy and prior to trades.

Please don't start this.

[USMA76]

Of course this has happened. Our best hitter was out for more than a m9nth and we sold off two of our bigger contributors to offense. Not to mention we lost our closer who was having an exceptional season. This idea that the posters who said we would suck this year we're right is asinine. Sure, we lacked impact full depth as a result of the trades but the team was a 500 team when healthy and prior to trades.

Hey, the good times were nice while they lasted. Hopefully, we can snap out of the current funk and play another stretch or two of good baseball before we put 2015 in the books. It'd be nice to go into next year with optimism based on performance and not just potential.

[thewupk]

Some went a little over board with who he was. He's likely more like a .260ish with a .330ish OBP and .350ish Slg. with above average defense and good speed. At league minimum that's a nice little player to have at 2b. If he's one of the worst starters on your team then you're doing ok. If he's one of the better starters on your team then you're not doing too great.

But because he's so cheap you can plug him in as a starter and spend money at other positions and you would still be ok.

I have no problem with Jace and see him as an average player. And with him making league minium makes him a valuable assest. But he's a role player and not someone you build around.

[thethe]

Maybe lavanway could be an average everyday catcher.

[nsacpi]

I think peopled jumped on too quickly.

Some were too quick to jump on and a subset of those were too quick to jump off.

For someone who is a 25 year old rookie, I think 400 plate appearances is a reasonable sample size to draw inferences.

After 405 plate appearances, he is slashing .239/.318/.330. His defense is above average, which has brought his WAR up to 0.7. Extrapolate that to a full season and he is a 1.0-1.5 WAR player.

Relative to my expectations, he's been a slightly positive surprise.

His splits hint that a platoon might be a good way to use him. His slash line against lefties is .209/.264/254. His slash line against righties is .247/.329/.347. A Peterson/Castro platoon at second might be in the Braves future.

[thethe]

And a team that was getting very luck with RISP which has tailed off. Also getting suprising strong seasons from KJ, AJ, and Maybin. In the end these things have a way of working themselves out.

We were also getting on base more.

[thethe]

Some were too quick to jump on and a subset of those were too quick to jump off.

For someone who is a 25 year old rookie, I think 400 plate appearances is a reasonable sample size to draw inferences.

After 405 plate appearances, he is slashing .239/.318/.330. His defense is above average, which has brought his WAR up to 0.7. Extrapolate that to a full season and he is a 1.0-1.5 WAR player.

Relative to my expectations, he's been a slightly positive surprise.

His splits hint that a platoon might be a good way to use him. His slash line against lefties is .209/.264/254. His slash line against righties is .247/.329/.347. A Peterson/Castro platoon at second might be in the Braves future.

Too early to platoon him but like you said it's something to watch.

[thewupk]

We were also getting on base more.

And that has dropped as well as performances have come back to the mean.

[Krovahn]

According to Gameday, Francoeur singled on a ground ball to Freeman, deflected by Johnson at 3rd? Is this just a game day mess-up or was it a bunt with both charging or something?

[thethe]

And that has dropped as well as performances have come back to the mean.

Again...lost Freeman for over a month and sold off two of our top 5 hitters.

[thethe]

According to Gameday, Francoeur singled on a ground ball to Freeman, deflected by Johnson at 3rd? Is this just a game day mess-up or was it a bunt with both charging or something?

Mistake. Slow roller to third and CJ couldn't get a grip on the ball.

[auyushu]

This idea that the posters who said we would suck this year we're right is asinine. Sure, we lacked impact full depth as a result of the trades but the team was a 500 team when healthy and prior to trades.

:FrediPuzzled:

[Krovahn]

Mistake. Slow roller to third and CJ couldn't get a grip on the ball.

Okay, that makes much more sense. Thanks.

[thethe]

Nice job Julio.

Big mistake to trade this kid.

[stpeteirish]

Mistake. Slow roller to third and CJ couldn't get a grip on the ball.

also know as a Francouer line drive.

[stpeteirish]

really thought Shelby would win one before that road warrior JT.

[USMA76]

Nice job Julio.

Big mistake to trade this kid.

On days like today, it's easy to agree with this statement. On those too frequent days when he gives up five runs in a couple of innings--not so much. If there's ever been a Braves pitcher who is a greater Jeckyl/Hyde than Julio, I don't know who it would be.

[nsacpi]

Too early to platoon him but like you said it's something to watch.

If he were a year or two younger, I'd be more open to giving him another season as the full-time second baseman. Given his age, I'd give him the first two or three months of 2016 to make the case he should be the full-time second baseman. If he doesn't run with the opportunity and Castro is doing well in AAA, I'd go with a platoon.

[UNCBlue012]

Good stuff Julio! Really good job on the road. Solid fastball with great control. 2 runs, but no walks and 7 ks. Awesomesauce.

[auyushu]

Good stuff Julio! Really good job on the road. Solid fastball with great control. 2 runs, but no walks and 7 ks. Awesomesauce.

Yep, very nice to see him have a good game on the road. The zero walks in particular is extremely nice to see.

[thethe]

If he were a year or two younger, I'd be more open to giving him another season as the full-time second baseman. Given his age, I'd give him the first two or three months of 2016 to make the case he should be the full-time second baseman. If he doesn't run with the opportunity and Castro is doing well in AAA, I'd go with a platoon.

I still wouldn't do a straight platoon for another season. Maybe a strategic platoon on 70% of left handed starters but I think Peterson needs to start against some left handed pitching

[jpx7]

I think peopled jumped on too quickly.

Had to jump somewhere.

[thethe]

On days like today, it's easy to agree with this statement. On those too frequent days when he gives up five runs in a couple of innings--not so much. If there's ever been a Braves pitcher who is a greater Jeckyl/Hyde than Julio, I don't know who it would be.

I think it's just a season slump thing. His location is off in comparison to what it's been in years past. I'm just very partial to him and think he will be a 200+ innings anchor for many years to come.

[thewupk]

Again...lost Freeman for over a month and sold off two of our top 5 hitters.

And those things have nothing to do with Markakis and Peterson hitting worse. And I'm sure we all expected coming into the season for KJ and Maybin to hit as well as they have.

You can't have it both ways. Saying we are only this bad because we traded some of our better hitters who weren't even expected to be on the team we spring training began, etc.

Again, these things have a way of working themselves out. The Braves had a poor constructed lineup to start the year and the stats will show that they were a poor offense when the season comes to a close.

[nsacpi]

We were sticking close to .500 with most things breaking our way, including hitting very well with RISP and exceptional pinch hitting. But luck (and that includes injuries) usually evens out over a full season. A team built to contend stays in contention with average luck (including injuries).

[Heyward]

Nice game by Julio, glad we kept him.

[bravesnumberone]

If Julio pitched this kind of game earlier in the week, we could have shipped him for a Cuban catcher who hasn't hit in the big leagues.

[Heyward]

If Julio pitched this kind of game earlier in the week, we could have shipped him for a Cuban catcher who hasn't hit in the big leagues.

Stop it.

[Heyward]

The team was hitting over their heads with RISP but trading away Uribe/KJ along with Freeman's injury played a part.

But the team still needs some more impact bats, no two ways around it.

[Heyward]

#VizIsGood

[bravesnumberone]

Stop it.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2014/10/03/ff/7b/braves_john_hart.jpg

[buck75]

Win - great bouncing elephant!

[The Chosen One]

Darn Julio! Pitching well after the trade deadline to avoid getting flipped.

[bravesnumberone]

Darn Julio! Pitching well after the trade deadline to avoid getting flipped.

Heyward wants you to stop it.

[CrimsonCowboy]

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=happy+elephant+gif&view=detail&id=E657C51122FDD6D7D97FFD0CE05EB2ACE4D43D8F&first=1&count=1&FORM=IDFRIR

[Garmel]

Win - great bouncing elephant!

I think that elephant was shot down at the same time Cecil was.

[Heyward]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2014/10/03/ff/7b/braves_john_hart.jpg

The man who turned a 5-year rebuild into 2-3, yeah that man.

[CrimsonCowboy]

http://i.imgur.com/P6x0U.gif

[bravesnumberone]

The man who turned a 5-year rebuild into 2-3, yeah that man.

Don't get ahead of yourself.

[Heyward]

Don't get ahead of yourself.

Yeah cuz the FO wont sign anyone or try to get better at all, you're right, we should have you as GM instead of Hart.

[bravesnumberone]

Yeah cuz the FO wont sign anyone or try to get better at all, you're right, we should have you as GM instead of Hart.

Was trading a young starter and creating a hole in the rotation, giving up a middle infield/CF prospect and acquiring a 30-year-old question mark at third with no defense "trying" to get better?

[The Chosen One]

I think I figured out the key to our wins now.

Don't have Garmel make the GDT's anymore. :Bunchie1:

[Garmel]

I think I figured out the key to our wins now.

Don't have Garmel make the GDT's anymore. :Bunchie1:

You might be onto something. I must be bringing the bad mojo.

[sturg33]

Of course this has happened. Our best hitter was out for more than a m9nth and we sold off two of our bigger contributors to offense. Not to mention we lost our closer who was having an exceptional season. This idea that the posters who said we would suck this year we're right is asinine. Sure, we lacked impact full depth as a result of the trades but the team was a 500 team when healthy and prior to trades.

You are delusional.

I really would love to go back to some of those april game threads with all the victory laps... holy smokes.

This team is awful and played well above their herds for the first 2 months of the season.

Your trying to say that us trading Kelly and Uribe (who we didn't even get til May), made the difference in our team being decent and terrible?

[thethe]

You are delusional.

I really would love to go back to some of those april game threads with all the victory laps... holy smokes.

This team is awful and played well above their herds for the first 2 months of the season.

Your trying to say that us trading Kelly and Uribe (who we didn't even get til May), made the difference in our team being decent and terrible?

And Freeman being out for a month and our closer who was having a really good season getting hurt.

Yes, those factors led us from being the a decent team (which we were) to the awful team that we are today.

Not sure how that can be denied.

[thewupk]

And Freeman being out for a month and our closer who was having a really good season getting hurt.

Yes, those factors led us from being the a decent team (which we were) to the awful team that we are today.

Not sure how that can be denied.

Freeman being out hurt. And losing Grili really didnt' have much of an impact. JJ was still good and losing our closer didn't cause us to stop scoring runs.

You still fail to acknowledge that the only reason we were 'good' was because of unexpected starts to the season from several hitters. And most of them have regressed to the mean and we are garbage again.

You built up the fact that making contact would score more runs. Well guess what? It hasn't.

[thethe]

Freeman being out hurt. And losing Grili really didnt' have much of an impact. JJ was still good and losing our closer didn't cause us to stop scoring runs.

You still fail to acknowledge that the only reason we were 'good' was because of unexpected starts to the season from several hitters. And most of them have regressed to the mean and we are garbage again.

You built up the fact that making contact would score more runs. Well guess what? It hasn't.

Contact was scoring plenty of runs when our best hitter was in the lineup. The aggregate season numbers don't account for that at all.

How was Grilli not a big loss? It just weakened our bullpen tremendously. The point I was responded to wasn't just about the offense. It was about the team as a whole. When Grilli was healthy and Viz came up our pen was looking damn good. I still believe we would have been around 500 all year if Grilli/Freeman were healthy and the trades weren't made. Now, the way the team is going is probably better for the future but I would have rather won more games.

[bravesnumberone]

The first few weeks of the season, we had a really, really good average with RISP. That was with Freeman's poor start, too. AJ was playing like a damn all star, as was Peterson. We stopped scoring; that's why we're losing more. It should have been no mystery we didn't have the offense to last and actually compete. Combine that with a just OK rotation and awful bullpen sans Grilli and JJ, and well, there ya go.

Oh, and the same nitwit who can't manage in a close game.

[thethe]

Whether or not it would have lasted is a guess. Yes, the numbers would indicate that more than likely it would have regressed but the diminished scoring output directly coincided with Freeman going down. And now to mock the offense is silly since we traded two average hitters at worst for two awful hitters.

[thewupk]

Contact was scoring plenty of runs when our best hitter was in the lineup. The aggregate season numbers don't account for that at all.

How was Grilli not a big loss? It just weakened our bullpen tremendously. The point I was responded to wasn't just about the offense. It was about the team as a whole. When Grilli was healthy and Viz came up our pen was looking damn good. I still believe we would have been around 500 all year if Grilli/Freeman were healthy and the trades weren't made. Now, the way the team is going is probably better for the future but I would have rather won more games.

I don't know if you have noticed this or not but scoring runs has been the teams biggest issue for awhile now. Grili did not help that problem one bit.

And why isn't contact working after Freeman went out? The Braves still ahve the lowest K% in the league. If all you need to do is put the ball in play then we should have kept on scoring regardless. Unless Freeman made other players magically get hits.

[Heyward]

I don't know if you have noticed this or not but scoring runs has been the teams biggest issue for awhile now. Grili did not help that problem one bit.

And why isn't contact working after Freeman went out? The Braves still ahve the lowest K% in the league. If all you need to do is put the ball in play then we should have kept on scoring regardless. Unless Freeman made other players magically get hits.

Replacing Freeman, KJ, and Uribe with Gomes/Perez, CJ and Garcia is a pretty bad downgrade but continue to stay bitter.

[thewupk]

Replacing Freeman, KJ, and Uribe with Gomes/Perez, CJ and Garcia is a pretty bad downgrade but continue to stay bitter.

Braves are still putting the ball in the play. Why aren't we scoring more runs?

[thethe]

Braves are still putting the ball in the play. Why aren't we scoring more runs?

This is a straw man. THe premise was always having good hitters that put the ball in play. Not a lineup littered with Quad A guys.

[jpx7]

What's this "W" listed next to the team's name on the boxscore? Is it bad?

[nsacpi]

What's this "W" listed next to the team's name on the boxscore? Is it bad?
Some sort of typo

[bravesnumberone]

What's this "W" listed next to the team's name on the boxscore? Is it bad?

http://meetsobsession.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/moneyball-jonah-hill.jpg

[Dalyn]

What's this "W" listed next to the team's name on the boxscore? Is it bad?

I think it's some dig toward Wren.

[Julio3000]

What's this "W" listed next to the team's name on the boxscore? Is it bad?

Yes. It means TJ surgery is a high likelihood...

Wait. Is it an inverted W? No?

No idea, then.

[Dalyn]

I think it's some dig toward Wren.

http://i1.wp.com/www.sportingatl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/FW.png

[nsacpi]

I knew it. W's are bad.