Bethancourt

[msstate7]

Bethancourt at Gwinnett...

.323 avg .358 obp .481 slugging .839 ops 1 passed ball caught 14 of 32 baserunners

What more does he have to do?

[mfree80]

Bethancourt at Gwinnett...

.323 avg .358 obp .481 slugging .839 ops 1 passed ball caught 14 of 32 baserunners

What more does he have to do?

He must have really made some people mad earlier in the year.

[CyYoung31]

He has to become a 35-year old veteran. Then, he can play everyday.

[GovClintonTyree]

Bethancourt at Gwinnett...

.323 avg .358 obp .481 slugging .839 ops 1 passed ball caught 14 of 32 baserunners

What more does he have to do?

That's solid. I had seen enough and agreed with the demotion. Prolly back 9/1, wouldn't you think?

Maybe **** got real.

Any word on the work ethic, attention to detail, that sort of thing?

[GovClintonTyree]

He must have really made some people mad earlier in the year.

He did. He was sloppy. Inconsistent effort and results. Not taking **** seriously. Banking on his talent to carry him.

Maybe they reached him. If so, that would be ****ing awesome.

[thewupk]

Bethancourt at Gwinnett...

.323 avg .358 obp .481 slugging .839 ops 1 passed ball caught 14 of 32 baserunners

What more does he have to do?

Braves have no room for players that might help. We're working on that top 5 draft pick.

[Enscheff]

He's still not walking, at all. I'm pretty sure the issue the Braves had was more along the lines of preparations for games in the sense of learning scouting reports and whatnot, as well as an attitude/effort issue. Who knows if he has improved in those areas?

[Millwood1Hitter]

He was a Wren favorite, so I'm surprised that he hasn't been shipped to Russia yet for the tombstone of Eddie Ainsmith.

On a more serious note, maybe he got the wake-up call that he needed, and even though it has resulted in good numbers so far, the Braves aren't going to give in and promote him pushing him even harder to work in the offseason and transform his game more into something that could translate into something of value at the MLB level. I didn't like what I saw earlier this year. That can be forgiven though, the guy has the talent to be at least a defensive force, and anything offensively that he gives would be a plus.

[gilesfan]

Bethancourt is too young to start in our lineup.

[BRule]

Bethancourt at Gwinnett...

.323 avg .358 obp .481 slugging .839 ops 1 passed ball caught 14 of 32 baserunners

What more does he have to do?

Uh, not suck in bigs? What does it matter what he has done in the minors, he's proven thus far that he can't hit MLB pitching.

[smootness]

Uh, not suck in bigs? What does it matter what he has done in the minors, he's proven thus far that he can't hit MLB pitching.

How do you propose he prove this while facing AAA pitching?

He couldn't hit A pitching until he did. Same with AA, same with AAA. If there was ever a year to allow a guy time to prove he can play in the majors, it's this year.

I'm fine with him being sent down initially, but he's past due to be called back up.

Oh, and he's walked 8 times in his past 10 games. Do people really think he still has a bad attitude, is lazy, etc., yet is OPS'ing .839, playing great defensively, and improving the areas where he needed it? Honestly, even if he was able to do that, call him up. Because we need good players, and that would definitely be one.

[50PoundHead]

How do you propose he prove this while facing AAA pitching?

He couldn't hit A pitching until he did. Same with AA, same with AAA. If there was ever a year to allow a guy time to prove he can play in the majors, it's this year.

I'm fine with him being sent down initially, but he's past due to be called back up.

Oh, and he's walked 8 times in his past 10 games. Do people really think he still has a bad attitude, is lazy, etc., yet is OPS'ing .839, playing great defensively, and improving the areas where he needed it? Honestly, even if he was able to do that, call him up. Because we need good players, and that would definitely be one.

Yes. I frankly don't know if he has a bad attitude or wasn't doing his game prep, but if those in control contend he wasn't, that can dig a pretty deep hole for a player. C and SS (and to some extent CF) have become defense-first positions and if Bethancourt isn't calling a good game, framing well, or directing the infield adequately, that would likely put him in the doghouse.

[msstate7]

Yes. I frankly don't know if he has a bad attitude or wasn't doing his game prep, but if those in control contend he wasn't, that can dig a pretty deep hole for a player. C and SS (and to some extent CF) have become defense-first positions and if Bethancourt isn't calling a good game, framing well, or directing the infield adequately, that would likely put him in the doghouse.

It'd be interesting what our AAA pitcher's era was before and after Bethancourt went down. I'm not interested enough to research though haha

[Chico]

He's still not walking, at all. I'm pretty sure the issue the Braves had was more along the lines of preparations for games in the sense of learning scouting reports and whatnot, as well as an attitude/effort issue. Who knows if he has improved in those areas?

It seems clear that we're going to go in another direction, which is why I have no problem with him continuing what he's doing. He's building his trade value back up.

[50PoundHead]

It'd be interesting what our AAA pitcher's era was before and after Bethancourt went down. I'm not interested enough to research though haha

Even if there was an improvement, you're getting into the "tallest midget" argument. Bethancourt's big league experience may lead to some improvement in performance by the pitchers, but there are some things that can't be measured in metrics and it's my guess--and it's only a guess--that the team doesn't see Bethancourt as applying himself fully to his craft and if you're going to be a successful big league catcher, you have to do that.

[smootness]

It seems clear that we're going to go in another direction, which is why I have no problem with him continuing what he's doing. He's building his trade value back up.

I just can't believe that's true because it would be monumentally stupid.

'Bethancourt is OPS'ing well over .800 while playing great defense in AAA.'

'Awesome! We can trade him for something now.'

'So what are we going to do at catcher?'

'I don't know! We don't have any young catcher talent!'

[57Brave]

Missing pitches with a catchers mitt pretty much tells his story.
I always taught young catchers that no one should ever see their number. Guessing the John's and Fredi saw that one too many times

Lack of focus/preparation, a tendency to get lazy behind the plate and the inability to hit Major League pitching

[yeezus]

Bethancourt is too young to start in our lineup.

SO original.
pretty sure we have a really young team tho.

[Braves1976]

He's still not walking, at all. I'm pretty sure the issue the Braves had was more along the lines of preparations for games in the sense of learning scouting reports and whatnot, as well as an attitude/effort issue. Who knows if he has improved in those areas?

http://gwinnettbravesblog.mlblogs.com/2015/07/31/atlanta-braves-minor-league-catching-coordinator-discusses-bethancourt-catching-philosophies/

[Braves1976]

Bethancourt at Gwinnett...

.323 avg .358 obp .481 slugging .839 ops 1 passed ball caught 14 of 32 baserunners

What more does he have to do?

Maybe change his name to A.J. Pierzynski?

[Deester11]

Uh, not suck in bigs? What does it matter what he has done in the minors, he's proven thus far that he can't hit MLB pitching.
And a good way to be sure he can't is to keep him in the minors? Great idea.

[Diesel]

If he's getting the attention and training that he needs in terms of the "checklist" that they mentioned earlier, I'm happy to let him stay down as long as the deem necessary. By all accounts, it was his attention to detail and understanding the leadership aspects of his job that hurt him. It's a plus that he's hitting the ball well. But you can be sure that the process is what the focal point is now and he's learning to be a pro.

[BRule]

And a good way to be sure he can't is to keep him in the minors? Great idea.

Of course he needs to prove he can hit MLB pitching by being in the majors but to cite his minor league numbers as some sort of definitive reason that he needs to be called up is dumb. In 230 AB's in the majors he has a OPS+ of 47, an IsoOBP of 20 and an IsoSLG of 50

[Deester11]

Of course he needs to prove he can hit MLB pitching by being in the majors but to cite his minor league numbers as some sort of definitive reason that he needs to be called up is dumb. In 230 AB's in the majors he has a OPS+ of 47, an IsoOBP of 20 and an IsoSLG of 50 I haven't done that personally. I've seen him more than most people. I'm no scout. But from Orlando to now, he's had to be knocked down to get up. This was good for him. But the banish treatment is stupid unless the FO has moved on.

[yeezus]

I haven't done that personally. I've seen him more than most people. I'm no scout. But from Orlando to now, he's had to be knocked down to get up. This was good for him. But the banish treatment is stupid unless the FO has moved on.

I just don't think it's at the point where we can call it "banish treatment."

[nsacpi]

I have reason to believe he will be a useful major league player.

[BRule]

I haven't done that personally. I've seen him more than most people. I'm no scout. But from Orlando to now, he's had to be knocked down to get up. This was good for him. But the banish treatment is stupid unless the FO has moved on.

Agreed with the latter point and honestly he probably should be playing FT now so we see if he falls flat again or if he can actually hit, so we know for next year. I just don't agree with whoever posted his minor league numbers as THE reason he should be up. THE reason he should be up is, we suck and we need to know what he is.

[smootness]

Agreed with the latter point and honestly he probably should be playing FT now so we see if he falls flat again or if he can actually hit, so we know for next year. I just don't agree with whoever posted his minor league numbers as THE reason he should be up. THE reason he should be up is, we suck and we need to know what he is.

He needs to be up for 2 reasons: 1) We're not competing for anything and we need to know if he can learn to hit major league pitching, and 2) He's now proven he can hit AAA pitching very well, so we need to know if he can learn to hit major league pitching.

They're both reasons for him to be called up.

[Deester11]

I just don't think it's at the point where we can call it "banish treatment."
Banishment may be harsh. Purgatory?

[yeezus]

Banishment may be harsh. Purgatory?

Perhaps. I certainly wish they'd call him up and see what he can do. He was pretty dreadful in his first stint this year. But, I'd definitely be starting him over AJ.

[cajunrevenge]

I think he will get his shot when rosters expand. I dont know why anyone is complaining we probably saved a year of service time out of it.

[Eyeman]

I think it's an AJ issue more than a Bethancourt issue. We are struggling to score any runs as it is and AJ is the more effective hitter. AJ has more experience to help our young pitchers learn the game. If we bring Bethancourt up it will be too tempting to start AJ against righties, etc. It's better to let Bethancourt work on his catching skills fulltime. I'd leave him in Gwinnett until the AAA season ends and then after that bring him up to catch fulltime here to finish off the season.

[sc1767]

I'd like to have him back too but if it is a development thing, I have to trust the pros who see him daily. That article was reassuring.

[NinersSBChamps]

Bethancourt at Gwinnett...


What more does he have to do?

Not be a completely piss poor hitter at the ML level.

[Deester11]

Not be a completely piss poor hitter at the ML level.
Profound.

[atl717]

I am not a CB fan, but he has never hit like this at any level. Patience, average, and extra base hits on a consistent basis. Call him up and see if its for real. Think they are waiting to move AJ.

[nsacpi]

I am not a CB fan, but he has never hit like this at any level. Patience, average, and extra base hits on a consistent basis. Call him up and see if its for real. Think they are waiting to move AJ.

He's probably not as good as his AAA hitting this year suggests. But he's going to be a useful major league player. For a team that is pointing to the future and doesn't have many catching options in the system, I would hope that he isn't traded unless an amazing offer comes in.

[NinersSBChamps]

Profound.
I am not asking for much. Batting average near .255 and OPS in the .600-.625 range. Nothing worldly, but he can't even do that or at least he hasn't been able to. I realize he has around 220 at bats, but he would need to drastically improve to even begin to scratch the surface of the numbers I posted.

[NinersSBChamps]

He's probably not as good as his AAA hitting this year suggests. But he's going to be a useful major league player. For a team that is pointing to the future and doesn't have ma
ny catching options in the system, I would hope that he isn't traded unless an amazing offer comes in.

Sure I get that, but we can't always be banking or counting on someone for the future every single time. Eventually we need players to be in the present. Sooner or later we need to move on and try someone else/

[Chico]

I am not a CB fan, but he has never hit like this at any level. Patience, average, and extra base hits on a consistent basis. Call him up and see if its for real. Think they are waiting to move AJ.

Or they are hoping more GM's who were "not a fan" either are starting to be intrigued too.

[zbhargrove]

Sure I get that, but we can't always be banking or counting on someone for the future every single time. Eventually we need players to be in the present. Sooner or later we need to move on and try someone else/

The problem is that there are no available "sure thing" young catchers... Lucroy, Wieters, and McCann are the 3 big bats that would possibly be available through trade or free agency but they all have age/injury problems... all other young catchers are almost just as unknown as Bethancourt. I'd love to get Swihart but there's no way they'll trade him now that he's hitting. Susac doesn't excite me and I don't think he'd be any better than Bethancourt. Barnes from LA is intriguing but again... he's just as much of an unknown.

[Knucksie]

It boggles my mind how much lingering hostility there is toward Bethancourt. Catcher is probably the hardest position to develop, and he's what? 23? (Not going to bother to research to confirm.) For gosh sake's, he doesn't even have a 1/2 season total of major league experience. At the time, and the banter here was much worse than it is now, my comment was that sending him down could only be perceived as positive. It could serve as a wake-up call and he'd have a chance to work on his hitting regularly. He's responded.

Still, there's always some gasbag here, claiming "Oh, he sucked since A ball! And I have the numbers to prove it!" Losers.

[KB21]

http://www.talkingchop.com/2015/8/21/9151017/atlanta-braves-scouting-report-christian-bethancourt

Garrett Spain and Eric Cole article at TC on Bethancourt.

[msstate7]

http://www.talkingchop.com/2015/8/21/9151017/atlanta-braves-scouting-report-christian-bethancourt

Garrett Spain and Eric Cole article at TC on Bethancourt.

How well respected is Garrett Spain? I looked him up on Twitter and he has 1,166 followers... Seems pretty small time

[KB21]

How well respected is Garrett Spain? I looked him up on Twitter and he has 1,166 followers... Seems pretty small time

He has several prospect reports up at TC. Read them and formulate your own opinion of him.

Fact is, if Beth is still trying to scoop balls that are thrown in the dirt, then he isn't doing what he needs to do with his demotion. He has the feet and athleticism to move his body to block those pitches. The big red alarm for me is that he doesn't appear to talk to his teammates on the bench, with the only one that he gravitates to being Sugar Ray Marimon. The catcher has to be a leader.

The big defensive issues he had when he was sent down were calling the game, framing pitches, and blocking pitches. Based on this article and the comments Mark Bowman made in an article last week, it doesn't appear he has improved those qualities to this point.

[Knucksie]

Wow, somebody read something on Twitter. That settles it. Then Bethancourt sucks!