Harper Called out by Teammate; Dugout brawl!

[rico43]

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/151946476/papelbon-harper-scuffle-in-nationals-dugout

[Hudson2]

That got ugly fast

[Deester11]

Beautiful. They're dysfunctional. Good.

[thewupk]

He took himself out of the game. That will hurt his mvp chances.

[NinersSBChamps]

Papelbon is my favorite player of all time.

[Heyward]

He took himself out of the game. That will hurt his mvp chances.

They missed the playoffs, might have regardless whether that's fair or not.

[Runnin]

That was a clown move for sure, bro. I have to admit I love how he is so flawed.

[MadduxFanII]

Watching the Nationals implode in such impressive fashion has almost justified this entire season.

Suffice it to say, Papelbon is about a week from getting pushed out to sea on an ice floe.

[thewupk]

They missed the playoffs, might have regardless whether that's fair or not.

Arod won on a last place team somewhat recently. Harpers season is so far ahead of anybody elses that it should be his. He's been the best player by far this season. That being said I can see him getting the Ted Williams treatment. Harper rubs a lot of people the wrong way and he essentially quit on the team today and a lot of voters might take issue with that. Right or wrong the voters are human and emotion can come into these things.

[CrimsonCowboy]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2576299/muttley-o.gif

[50PoundHead]

Watching the Nationals implode in such impressive fashion has almost justified this entire season.

Suffice it to say, Papelbon is about a week from getting pushed out to sea on an ice floe.

Harper will probably be in a speedboat beside him with a blow torch working on the ice.

I'm guessing Williams has cracked open Microsoft Word and brought up his resume. He'll likely be sending out copies next Monday.

PS--I think Harper's a true chucklehead, but if he's not the MVP, they should just mothball the award.

[CrimsonCowboy]

As bad as the Braves season has been, at least we haven't seen that in the dugout.

[NinersSBChamps]

As bad as the Braves season has been, at least we haven't seen that in the dugout.

Because nobody on this team cares.

[TURBO]

Because nobody on this team cares.

Chris Johnson cared

[Julio3000]

That's a clown chokehold, bro.

[Braves1976]

Chris Johnson cared

CJ hitting Harper in the head with a thrown helmet would make a great shot to use in a future Harper bobblehead night at the ballpark. :)

[clvclv]

CJ hitting Harper in the head with a thrown helmet would make a great shot to use in a future Harper bobblehead night at the ballpark. :)

CJ hitting ANYTHING while in a Braves' uniform might deserve a bobblehead night!!!

:Wall::Wall::Wall:

[zbhargrove]

Somewhere, gilesfan is crying

[gilesfan]

He took himself out of the game. That will hurt his mvp chances.

I think that perception (that he took himself out) might hurt his chances, but I don't think it hurts his chances enough to cost him the award. He should still win it in a landslide.

The Nats had planned to pull Harper in the top half of the inning in the last home game similar to what they did with Desmond. He was done playing, but I think you are correct the perception that he pulled himself out of the game beforehand is going to hurt.

Papelbon and McCann are apparently the unofficial unwritten rules enforcers of baseball. Having a closer call out the NL MVP for jogging to first in a meaningless games seems equal to a kicker calling out Dez Bryant for half assing a route in a preseason game.

Rizzo ****ed up big time; who would expect Papelbon to be a douche? Just anyone that has ever watched him pitch? What a train wreck.

[Carp]

Lol at gilesfan defending baseball's biggest douche. Like clockwork.

[bravesnumberone]

He does have somewhat of a point though. Who the hell is Pap to be calling anyone out?

When the Nats fire Matt Williams, will they please take Fredi?

[yeezus]

Uh, Papelbon is completely in the wrong here.
This is the same guy who grabbed his crotch at his hometown fans. Now he's worried about respect for the game?
Harper is the face of your franchise and the MVP. Papelbon is a known trouble-maker and clubhouse wrecker.
Refuses to pitch before the 9th inning, but is trying to tell the MVP the right way to play baseball.
And I'm FAR from a Harper supporter, I can't stand the guy. But get real here.

[CrimsonCowboy]

I was reading last night Matt Williams apparently didn't know how bad the confrontation was until after the game. How clueless can you get?

[DaneHill]

Yeah, sorry, but jumping from the top step down for Harper's throat? I may find Harper unlikable, but there's something a bit unhinged going on in Papelbon's brain to go for someone's throat like that over a silly incident. In the real world, assault charges would be filed and Pap would have a court date waiting for him.

[VirginiaBrave]

That whole organization is nothing but arrogant and entitled from the top at ownership right on down to the broadcasters. For the last four years, they have been handed the East in ST and given the talent maybe rightfully so but now they are 2 for 4 and missing the playoffs entirely this year. I guess failure can be added to arrogant and entitled.

[CrimsonCowboy]

The Gnats have suspended Papelbon four game for the incident.

648551865601400833

[Carp]

Neither player was "in the right" in this situation. Paps handled the altercation poorly. You don't choke.... well anyone really, unless you're a UFC fighter.

But Harper did in fact quit in his team, and deserves every bit of criticism thrown at him for that. If he were on the Braves when Bobby was around, Bobby would have sent his ass to the showers before Harper even reached the duggout.

[bravesfanMatt]

Rizzo is the biggest issue with this team.. he falls in the Wren model of GMing.. They are like kids who get a credit card for the first time. They spend on the first flashy thing they can find, they spend and spend and never concern themselves with the little things that make a team work. The utter arrogance to not address the BP or bench or the minors will haunt them like it did the Phils. The Gnats have to build an entire new bullpen next year while still addressing some of the pitching depth they are missing. All this with a minor league system that isn't bad but very thin. Their system was under .500 across all levels, where you look at the Braves and their system was under .500 overall, but only under in two leagues..Rome was our anchor because of sub par pitching.

[mossy]

Like him or not, Harper has had an MVP quality year. Paps has done nothing, then assaulting his team mate via choke hold. Yet you guys are calling Harper a quitter? Whats it even matter now, they are eliminated anyway.

[yeezus]

never saw Pap go after Big Papi or Manny for "not respecting the game." Wonder why.

if every player that didn't run out a pop-up at the end of September got attacked half the league would be suspended.

[bravesfanMatt]

there is this 'unwritten' rule that you play hard every play. and yes, I agree with that.. But I have no doubt that I can find video of Chipper not running a play out if I wanted to look. Also, pitchers hardly ever run a plate appearance out because of some other 'Unwritten' rule that they need to conserve their energy to pitch.. Come on.. Harper if frustrated that he had a huge season that means nothing but personal credit. He did what he had to do to get the team to the playoffs and others on his team failed. So he didn't run that fly ball out.. gives you no right to call him out coming back to the dugout when you have been on this team for ~2 months and have 2 losses a 3 ERA and haven't been all you were billed to be coming over to the Gnats. Papelbon is a mental case that I said would plague this team when they traded for him. Thanks Rizzo for making the Braves season easier next year.

[gilesfan]

Lol at gilesfan defending baseball's biggest douche. Like clockwork.

Harper did nothing wrong in this instance. How is jogging to first "quitting on your team?"

Like it or not, players jog to first on routine plays. There are probably a handful of guys that bust their ass every play and it's scrappy utility players that have nothing else going for them. If you aren't hustling on a grounder in the middle of a playoff race, that's understandable. But, this was a lazy fly ball in a meaningless game and coming from a closer that pitches 60 innings a year and chills hard the rest of the season.

[gilesfan]

Rizzo is the biggest issue with this team.. he falls in the Wren model of GMing.. They are like kids who get a credit card for the first time. They spend on the first flashy thing they can find, they spend and spend and never concern themselves with the little things that make a team work. The utter arrogance to not address the BP or bench or the minors will haunt them like it did the Phils. The Gnats have to build an entire new bullpen next year while still addressing some of the pitching depth they are missing. All this with a minor league system that isn't bad but very thin. Their system was under .500 across all levels, where you look at the Braves and their system was under .500 overall, but only under in two leagues..Rome was our anchor because of sub par pitching.


They tried to fix the bullpen; they signed Jansen, Thornton, and traded for Papelbon. It just didn't work out. They have a really good minor league system, but that team is likely in for a huge turnover in the offseason. Now, they have to figure out how to get rid of Papelbon, which was a stupid trade in the first place.

[57Brave]

giles is right, I saw the video and saw a guy jog to first. So what, I've seen Charley Hustle jog to first on simple fly balls in September. With all of the hoop-la I expected to see Harper go from batters box to dugout.

Having said that, with the passing of Yogi Barra I learned that Harper at 22 has more career K's than Berra, a notorious bad ball hitter, did over 3 decades.

Never understood the purpose of the Nats acquiring Pap

[Hudson2]

I guess the Nats will buy Paps out and send him packing. Some dumb gm will pick him up I'm sure next year. But I don't see Harper jogging to first as quitting when there is nothing to play for. He hustles as hard as anybody on most plays so he should get a pass on a pop up in a game that means nothing. Uggla use to bust it down the line all the time when he knew he was gonna be out but would be lazy on pop ups. Yall go play 150+ games and bust it every play...Won't happen

[bravesfanMatt]

They tried to fix the bullpen; they signed Jansen, Thornton, and traded for Papelbon. It just didn't work out. They have a really good minor league system, but that team is likely in for a huge turnover in the offseason. Now, they have to figure out how to get rid of Papelbon, which was a stupid trade in the first place.

I agree they tried to fix the pen, they just did it on the cheap until the paplebon trade, which disrupted the situation even worse. You spend 210 million on one starter but pennies on the pen.. go figure. As for the minors, yes they have a few great prospects but Meh on the rest. The Nats were ranked something like 18th last year and jumped up to like 10 with the two guys the padres gave them.. That doesn't make a deep system which is what I was referring to..

[gilesfan]

I agree they tried to fix the pen, they just did it on the cheap until the paplebon trade, which disrupted the situation even worse. You spend 210 million on one starter but pennies on the pen.. go figure. As for the minors, yes they have a few great prospects but Meh on the rest. The Nats were ranked something like 18th last year and jumped up to like 10 with the two guys the padres gave them.. That doesn't make a deep system which is what I was referring to..

They had 16.5 million committed to the bullpen before trading for Papelbon. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Nats have a lot to do this offseason. They will be needing to replace some big players and rebuild a bullpen. Then figure out how to get rid of Paplebon, make good with storen.

[bravesfanMatt]

their opening day money committed to the bullpen was 13.5 , >10 mill was to three players.. 5 mill of that to Storen who obviously they had no confidence in because they made a deadline trade for a closer when Storen had blown only 2 saves all year. So basically they went into a season with a 163 million payroll and banked their pen on Storen who they had no confidence in.. Stammen whose injury hurt them (no depth).. and thornton who did well and then some other unproven cheap guys.

you are denying any of this?!?

[bravesfanMatt]

storen is as good as gone.. Nats don't want him and he doesn't want to be there..

[gilesfan]

their opening day money committed to the bullpen was 13.5 , >10 mill was to three players.. 5 mill of that to Storen who obviously they had no confidence in because they made a deadline trade for a closer when Storen had blown only 2 saves all year. So basically they went into a season with a 163 million payroll and banked their pen on Storen who they had no confidence in.. Stammen whose injury hurt them (no depth).. and thornton who did well and then some other unproven cheap guys.

you are denying any of this?!?


The bullpen was:

Storen 5.7
Janssen 3.5 (injured)
Thornton 3.5
Stammen 2.25
Roark .53
Cedeno .52
Barrett .51
Treinen .51 (replacement)

That is 16.5 million, which was 9th in the majors in payroll towards the bullpen. (LAD, KC, SF, Cin, Det, Bal, Bos, Atl, Wash, Hou)

You are clearly wrong. Just stop.

[bravesfanMatt]

wasn't counting Jansen since he wasn't on the opening day roster and was out until almost June. so the Nats STARTED the season with now 13 million committed to 4 players.. 8 million, or half of total BP salary, to two players that either were injured or lacking confidence.. yes you showed me the strong bullpen that Rizzo built. I am sure you had all the confidence in the world in that make up... congrats on the internet victory, may all your Harper fantasies come true..

[gilesfan]

wasn't counting Jansen since he wasn't on the opening day roster and was out until almost June. so the Nats STARTED the season with now 13 million committed to 4 players.. 8 million, or half of total BP salary, to two players that either were injured or lacking confidence.. yes you showed me the strong bullpen that Rizzo built. I am sure you had all the confidence in the world in that make up... congrats on the internet victory, may all your Harper fantasies come true..

Your comment was they didnt spend money....they did. You pay injured players still.

[thewupk]

http://nypost.com/2015/09/28/baseball-brethren-bryce-harper-had-choke-coming/


Seems like people in the game think he had it coming. Bryce is not very liked around the league.

[Orphan Black]

I don't like either player, but I dislike Harper more so I'll side with Papelbon on this one.

While in many ways I do think Harper probably should win MVP, but in the most important I think he is a long way off. Sometimes he doesn't come off as a team player, and sometimes he comes off as not respecting the game.

[bravesfanMatt]

Right. They had money committed. But when you have five mill to a player you didn't have confidence in and another 3 plus mill in a player that is hurt then you didn't address the pen. They spent 210 mill on a starter. So you would think they would actively find a closer they wanted for the whole year. Maybe they tried. I don't really know. But my perception is that they choose to go into a season without a bullpen that was reliable. I guess Rizzo thought he would coast into the playoffs and then have the luxury of one of his starters being another good pen guy. So yes they had money committed. But half of that 16 mill was committed to guys that were shaky at best. So again they went cheap on the pen when you look at the big picture.

[50PoundHead]

I don't like either player, but I dislike Harper more so I'll side with Papelbon on this one.

While in many ways I do think Harper probably should win MVP, but in the most important I think he is a long way off. Sometimes he doesn't come off as a team player, and sometimes he comes off as not respecting the game.

That didn't stop Barry Bonds from winning seven times. It's a much more stat-driven award now than it was in an earlier era and that's fine. I can remember when guys like Nellie Fox and Zoilo Versalles won the award or a guy with counting stats got the nod.

[Runnin]

Sometimes he doesn't come off as a team player, and sometimes he comes off as not respecting the game.
How players actually are can be easily misread. Papelbon was the biggest jerk this time. Harper's sportsmanship or lack of it is the Nats' problem and shouldn't hurt his MVP chances.

I think Harper is the MVP, though I hate it.

[zitothebrave]

Harper is the best player in the NL this year for sure. No debating that. Only challenge to him is Kershaw/Arrieta, but given how great they've both been, but I think they'll divide up the votes for the people who'd consider voting for a pitcher.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Fredi said he didn't see it, was reading his baseball prospectus from.......2007.

"What happened? Papelbon is what, the best closer in the game? He's good? What'd he strikeout this Harper guy, who is he to challenge. I don't have a scouting report, is he someone to be concerned about? I'm not really worried about it, more scared, never been so scared of running a pitcher out there like I did tonight, we will run em out there tomorrow and see what they for. Sometimes you got to tip your cap to someone for being so darn competitive to try to get the team fired up. Chris Johnson does that for us, speaking of him, anyone see him lately? I think I'll run him out there tomorrow, he probably needs a few at bats. Tough to find em, really like the upside of our Cubans. You know, I'm like one, right? Yeah, we're good and untouchable. Anything else?"

[VirginiaBrave]

A lot of ex-players coming to Pap's defense including CJ Nitkowski and B. Molina. Shows what the lead singer of Flock of Seagulls cover band is thought of. This was reported on ESPN.

[50PoundHead]

A lot of ex-players coming to Pap's defense including CJ Nitkowski and B. Molina. Shows what the lead singer of Flock of Seagulls cover band is thought of. This was reported on ESPN.

I wonder if this reaction is due to this incident or an overall disdain for Harper (and I'm sure he's held in disdain by quite a few players and former players)?

[NYCBrave]

Rizzo is the biggest issue with this team.. he falls in the Wren model of GMing.. They are like kids who get a credit card for the first time. They spend on the first flashy thing they can find, they spend and spend and never concern themselves with the little things that make a team work. The utter arrogance to not address the BP or bench or the minors will haunt them like it did the Phils. The Gnats have to build an entire new bullpen next year while still addressing some of the pitching depth they are missing. All this with a minor league system that isn't bad but very thin. Their system was under .500 across all levels, where you look at the Braves and their system was under .500 overall, but only under in two leagues..Rome was our anchor because of sub par pitching.

I actually think Rizzo is one of the better GM's in the league. Sure he has a nice budget the work with, and was handed Harper, but he's also made some very shrewd trades and signings that have worked out well for them.

[Runnin]

I wonder if this reaction is due to this incident or an overall disdain for Harper (and I'm sure he's held in disdain by quite a few players and former players)?I think it's all BS. They've just decided to spin it against Harper because he's the best player and has his reputation. They found a lot more who thought Papelbon was wrong. But nobody cares about Papelbon.

Pap gone.

[thewupk]

I wonder if this reaction is due to this incident or an overall disdain for Harper (and I'm sure he's held in disdain by quite a few players and former players)?

I think it's due to the overall disdain for him. Paps was in the wrong for going after Harper with the choke hold. But with that being said I don't think he was in the wrong for calling him out and who knows what Harper said in return that made Paps go after him. I feel Harper is seen as a uber talented player who tends to think he is bigger than the game at times and that rubs some players the wrong way.

[bravesfanMatt]

Papelbon was completely in the wrong.. are you kidding.. He was being passive aggressive by calling Harper out on the top step in front of everyone. He was being childish by trying to get retribution for Harper calling him out in the press for the bean ball against Manny.. Paps was waiting for his opportunity and took it like a little kid seeking revenge. That is bush league at the up most. Harper is a douche and should have run the play out, but Paps should have kept his mouth shut and lead by example, and let someone who has been on the team more than two months handle Harper.

[bravesfanMatt]

Wren made some shrewd trades that worked well for the Braves.. but he was short sighted and would mortgage the future to win now. He couldn't build an organization, he could only build a team.. Sorry, I differ with you in how I measure a GM..

[GovClintonTyree]

Fredi said he didn't see it, was reading his baseball prospectus from.......2007.

"What happened? Papelbon is what, the best closer in the game? He's good? What'd he strikeout this Harper guy, who is he to challenge. I don't have a scouting report, is he someone to be concerned about? I'm not really worried about it, more scared, never been so scared of running a pitcher out there like I did tonight, we will run em out there tomorrow and see what they for. Sometimes you got to tip your cap to someone for being so darn competitive to try to get the team fired up. Chris Johnson does that for us, speaking of him, anyone see him lately? I think I'll run him out there tomorrow, he probably needs a few at bats. Tough to find em, really like the upside of our Cubans. You know, I'm like one, right? Yeah, we're good and untouchable. Anything else?"

Wow. You hit it all in one post. This is good work.

[gilesfan]

I think it's all BS. They've just decided to spin it against Harper because he's the best player and has his reputation. They found a lot more who thought Papelbon was wrong. But nobody cares about Papelbon.

Pap gone.

Baseball has this odd "moral code" and you have veteran players that think they are doing the game a service by enforcing unwritten rules. In general, older players also have a disdain for younger players that are good without putting in the years.

I understand some of it, we hit guys for strutting homers and such. (though, Im more tolerant of it now because pretty much everyone does it) But, there is no one that runs hard on a routine flyball. You may get some guys that run out grounders balls to the wall, but very few that run out routine flyballs. You have vet guys commenting on the issue and they are certainly guys that done run the ball out. Its such a stupid criticism as it is; you might have 1 routine flyball dropped over the course of the season. If its in the playoffs and it costs you; there is going to be backlash. But, anyone really care if its in a meaningless game? Does Joe blow hauling ass to first base on a routine flyball add any value to the team whatsoever or does it just make people feel good about themselves? I'm more interested in guys that consistently take the extra base or go first to third.

Some of the criticism of Harper is simply people not liking him. He's young, brass, and an awesome talent. Not everyone is going to like that. It would be easy to go around a find a few guys that dislike him. (maybe CJ called Hamels, lol) If people really cared about running balls out, you would have fist fights on a nightly basis. Latroy Hawkins came out against Harper; anyone ever hear of him yelling at Bautista or Encarnacion for not running hard? Those guys don't hustle at all and are station to station on the bases.

Players generally hate Papelbon has well (especially when he was younger), but now that he's a vet, he gets a pass. Which is an odd culture to me; like the player that commented that players need to earn the right to jog out flyballs.....just odd. Papelbon just poorly timed his attempt to get on his soapbox. He's been with the team a month, is hated by his teammates, and not considered a team leader. Yelling at the superstar for jogging to first is dumb as it is. If he had an issue with comments from Harper and wanted to be a badass, he should have went at him in the locker room. You pitch 60 innings a year and have the slackest work schedule of any type of player.

[bravesfanMatt]

agreed, very nicely done.

[Horsehide Harry]

Yasiel Puig does what Harper did and no one blinks (Puig is essentially a more talented Escobar). Back at the trade deadline, half this board was slowly massaging their parts in anticipation of acquiring Puig. But, everybody hates Harper?

What Papelbon did was bush, no other way to spin it and if I am GM and/or owner of the Nats, he is already DFA and released. Papelbon is a dime-a-dozen closer who has a dirt bag rep and sulls up if he's asked to a)pitch in a game where it's not a save b) pitch more than one inning. Harper is one of the best 1-2 players in the game, a future HoF potentially. Does he have entitlement issues? Does he act like a spoiled teenager sometimes? Of course he does. All that means is that he's got growing to do and must work to gain the respect of veterans around the league.

Does it mean that he should be physically or even verbally attacked in a very public way by a self important puffed up closer? No way, no how.

I actually think that Harper has handled this very well and mostly taken the high road. If it would have been me, I would have made an example out of Pap by putting his head through the concrete dugout wall and then telling management to get rid of the POS by the end of the day or to trade me.

[yeezus]

Yasiel Puig does what Harper did and no one blinks (Puig is essentially a more talented Escobar). Back at the trade deadline, half this board was slowly massaging their parts in anticipation of acquiring Puig. But, everybody hates Harper?


i think mostly everyone here is defending Harper on this one.

[VirginiaBrave]

What you have here are two guys who are essentially the same guy at different points in their careers. I don't see it as a right or wrong, I see it as two powder kegs with the fuse lit. Harper said some magic words whatever they might have been. There are some guys you just don't cuss. I have known guys that would take your head off over cussing them. There is no doubt in my mind Harper has some maturing to do. He is awful young to be living the life he is fortunate to be living right now.

[AerchAngel]

Yasiel Puig does what Harper did and no one blinks (Puig is essentially a more talented Escobar). Back at the trade deadline, half this board was slowly massaging their parts in anticipation of acquiring Puig. But, everybody hates Harper?

What Papelbon did was bush, no other way to spin it and if I am GM and/or owner of the Nats, he is already DFA and released. Papelbon is a dime-a-dozen closer who has a dirt bag rep and sulls up if he's asked to a)pitch in a game where it's not a save b) pitch more than one inning. Harper is one of the best 1-2 players in the game, a future HoF potentially. Does he have entitlement issues? Does he act like a spoiled teenager sometimes? Of course he does. All that means is that he's got growing to do and must work to gain the respect of veterans around the league.

Does it mean that he should be physically or even verbally attacked in a very public way by a self important puffed up closer? No way, no how.

I actually think that Harper has handled this very well and mostly taken the high road. If it would have been me, I would have made an example out of Pap by putting his head through the concrete dugout wall and then telling management to get rid of the POS by the end of the day or to trade me.

Pap would beat the crap out of Harper in a fight, hands down, so I don't think that would happen. They are both D-bags and most teammates on that team side with Pap on this incident, DP, JR and DG shows said as much. I guess Prima donna fits Harper moniker perfectly.

[zbhargrove]

Pap would beat the crap out of Harper in a fight, hands down, so I don't think that would happen. They are both D-bags and most teammates on that team side with Pap on this incident, DP, JR and DG shows said as much. I guess Prima donna fits Harper moniker perfectly.

That's not true and entirely speculative by those guys and you. There is absolutely zero evidence the team sides with Pap... in fact most evidence I've seen is that most of the team sides with Harper. I don't like either one of them, but that's a ridiculous statement.

[gilesfan]

most teammates on that team side with Pap on this incident, DP, JR and DG shows said as much.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

[kingphatcow]

#TeamUnwrittenRules
#TeamPapelbon

Millennials are screwing everything up. They lack class and character. They're entitled assholes. Have some respect for the men who've gone before you and paved the way for you to make butt-tons of money playing a game.

[50PoundHead]

I think we should obtain Papelbon after he's DFA'd (we'd only be paying the minimum) and create a new ticket category for just the 9th inning. If Pierzynski is back (and I think he will be), I can just imagine some potential confrontations on the mound. Could even result in an on-field throw-down.

kingphatcow, I don't know if it's a lack of respect, but there is an element of more "me" in today's player that's probably due to the marketing of the game as opposed to anything else. Harper's been told he's God's gift to the game since his early-teens and that can't help but get into a guy's head at some point. I have subscribed to Perfect Game in the past (and still pick up a couple of months service during draft season) and you see all these articles about high school (sometimes junior high school) players and I can't believe that hasn't had an effect on how players view themselves.

[gilesfan]

#TeamUnwrittenRules
#TeamPapelbon

Millennials are screwing everything up. They lack class and character. They're entitled assholes. Have some respect for the men who've gone before you and paved the way for you to make butt-tons of money playing a game.


Like Jonathan Papelbon?

[gilesfan]

I think we should obtain Papelbon after he's DFA'd (we'd only be paying the minimum) and create a new ticket category for just the 9th inning. If Pierzynski is back (and I think he will be), I can just imagine some potential confrontations on the mound. Could even result in an on-field throw-down.

kingphatcow, I don't know if it's a lack of respect, but there is an element of more "me" in today's player that's probably due to the marketing of the game as opposed to anything else. Harper's been told he's God's gift to the game since his early-teens and that can't help but get into a guy's head at some point. I have subscribed to Perfect Game in the past (and still pick up a couple of months service during draft season) and you see all these articles about high school (sometimes junior high school) players and I can't believe that hasn't had an effect on how players view themselves.

Agreed about the vets vs. rookies. But, this happens every cycle; vets are jealous of the success of young players and cry about how things "use to be." This is unique to the recent young players, it's happened throughout the history of baseball. In 15 years, Harper will probably be talking about how "todays youth needs to learn how to play the game right!"

[The Chosen One]

Agreed about the vets vs. rookies. In 15 years, Harper will probably be talking about how "todays youth needs to learn how to play the game right!"

Hopefully in 15 years Harper will have learned how to play the game right.

[nsacpi]

Hopefully in 15 years Harper will have learned how to play the game right.

We can trade for him at that point.

[50PoundHead]

Agreed about the vets vs. rookies. But, this happens every cycle; vets are jealous of the success of young players and cry about how things "use to be." This is unique to the recent young players, it's happened throughout the history of baseball. In 15 years, Harper will probably be talking about how "todays youth needs to learn how to play the game right!"

I obviously don't know this to be accurate, but I wonder if Harper gets on other guys. It's a delicate situation when your best player is so young and is (at least seemingly) assuming the leadership role in the clubhouse. That may grate on some. I can see Papelbon's reaction as one of "You're always telling us we're not playing as hard as you are and now you're jaking it." That's no defense of Papelbon and it's all conjecture on my part, but Harper is a really intense guy and I wonder if there needs to be a steadying influence in that clubhouse.

[gilesfan]

I obviously don't know this to be accurate, but I wonder if Harper gets on other guys. It's a delicate situation when your best player is so young and is (at least seemingly) assuming the leadership role in the clubhouse. That may grate on some. I can see Papelbon's reaction as one of "You're always telling us we're not playing as hard as you are and now you're jaking it." That's no defense of Papelbon and it's all conjecture on my part, but Harper is a really intense guy and I wonder if there needs to be a steadying influence in that clubhouse.

The leaders on that team are Werth, Zimmerman, and Desmond. I think it was more of a case of Papelbon being upset that no one agreed with him on his decision to hit Machado.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13773700/how-washington-nationals-teammates-rest-mlb-see-bryce-harper-monster-year

[50PoundHead]

The leaders on that team are Werth, Zimmerman, and Desmond. I think it was more of a case of Papelbon being upset that no one agreed with him on his decision to hit Machado.

Do any of those guys sit down with Harper and say "Bryce, chill a bit."

[bravesfanMatt]

Agreed, Papelbon was being passive aggressive towards Harper because of the comments Harper made about the Manny beaming.. Papelbon waited for his opportunity and took it..and made sure everyone could see. I don't think he intended to fight Harper, but Harper said a magic word that triggered paps response..
I also don't think Harper is a leader really.. I don't think intense always equates to leader. But this is really my opinion for a far as I haven't watch a ton of nationals games..

[gilesfan]

Do any of those guys sit down with Harper and say "Bryce, chill a bit."

in terms of what? In playing hard, they've told him to calm down and play 150 games a season. In terms of his attitude toward the game, I don't think so. They just acknowledge that he is a ball of fire. I know Werth really takes a liking to him, but they are complete opposites in that sense.

[bravesfanforlife88]

I think this has to make you really look back and respect someone like Mike Trout. Someone that has a TON of expectations on him with his unbelieveable start to his career. However, he plays the game the right way. Think of the play the other day where he went way over the wall to catch the would be home run. Is that a play that Harper would have made? Doubtful.

[50PoundHead]

in terms of what? In playing hard, they've told him to calm down and play 150 games a season. In terms of his attitude toward the game, I don't think so. They just acknowledge that he is a ball of fire. I know Werth really takes a liking to him, but they are complete opposites in that sense.

I think there gets to be a time when intensity can be disrupting, especially when a season takes a turn for the worse. Harper's always going to play hard and I'm not suggesting someone tell him to hold anything back between the white lines. I just think there's probably times when a teammate or two (or six) when seeing him on the dugout rail going crazy would just as soon see him back it down a bit.

He's a singular talent. There's no question about that and his hustle contributes to that. But a team is like a family and if one kid is always banging on the dinner table, it tends to get on his/her siblings' nerves.

[Horsehide Harry]

#TeamUnwrittenRules
#TeamPapelbon

Millennials are screwing everything up. They lack class and character. They're entitled assholes. Have some respect for the men who've gone before you and paved the way for you to make butt-tons of money playing a game.

Well obviously. I mean we certainly wouldn't want to side with a player who is a prima donna, who is superbly talented, who most of the veterans in the league hate, who many of the fans hate and who might possibly be a future HoF like Barry Bonds.

Or, we wouldn't want to side with a hot head know it all who the majority of the league hates and who ends players careers with bush moves then hides behind the "playing hard" card to avoid criticism like Pete Rose.

Or, we wouldn't want to side with a half insane pitcher who uses a big fastball and intimidation with both the threat and action of beaning to insure success like Roger Clemens. Or Nolan Ryan. Or Randy Johnson. Or Don Drysdale.etc.

Or, we wouldn't want to side with a racist batsman who EVERYBODY hates like Ty Cobb.

The thing is, we shouldn't confuse personality and preferences with what is right and wrong. What Pap did was wrong from a baseball standpoint. What he did was wrong from a future standpoint (you don't damage the future). What he did was wrong from a team building standpoint.

Papelbon was P*ssed because he beaned a guy out of a fit of petty anger and no one stood behind him on it. Then Harper had the poor tact of commenting on it to the press saying that he expected to get drilled because of it (which he probably will, if not this year then next).

It had nothing to do with Harper "not playing he game right."

[gilesfan]

https://medium.com/sportspickle/jonathan-papelbon-arrested-after-strangling-man-with-17-grocery-items-in-15-items-or-less-line-b4af48685383

[Runnin]

In 15 years, Harper will probably be talking about how "todays youth needs to learn how to play the game right!"
I agree that he's dumb enough to do that. And he'll probably also say how when he was an arrogant young player the older vets got on his case about it.

[jcc03004]

storen is as good as gone.. Nats don't want him and he doesn't want to be there..

Would love to have storen in our pen plus wonder if well kick the tires on Desmond

[gilesfan]

Would love to have storen in our pen plus wonder if well kick the tires on Desmond

Simmons is the shortstop, that wouldn't make any sense.

The Mets would actually be a good fit; hopefully those scumbags don't get him.

[Chipper]

Simmons is the shortstop, that wouldn't make any sense.

The Mets would actually be a good fit; hopefully those scumbags don't get him.

You like the Gnats, but the Mets are scumbags? LOL

[yeezus]

You like the Gnats, but the Mets are scumbags? LOL

well, that's why he hates the Mets: he's a Nats fan.

[smootness]

Simmons is the shortstop, that wouldn't make any sense.

The Mets would actually be a good fit; hopefully those scumbags don't get him.

?

Desmond is merely a slightly above average defensive SS who is prone to errors, and he's now 30. I think now is a natural time for him to start shifting to 2B.

[gilesfan]

You like the Gnats, but the Mets are scumbags? LOL

Its odd that everyone wants to tell me who my favorite teams are.

[gilesfan]

?

Desmond is merely a slightly above average defensive SS who is prone to errors, and he's now 30. I think now is a natural time for him to start shifting to 2B.

If he's slowing down, second base isn't a good spot for him. Plus, he would have to learn how to play 2nd.

[kingphatcow]

Or, we wouldn't want to side with a hot head know it all who the majority of the league hates and who ends players careers with bush moves then hides behind the "playing hard" card to avoid criticism like Pete Rose.

Or, we wouldn't want to side with a half insane pitcher who uses a big fastball and intimidation with both the threat and action of beaning to insure success like Roger Clemens. Or Nolan Ryan. Or Randy Johnson. Or Don Drysdale.etc.

you're referring to what's commonly referred to - with good reason - as "The Good Ole Days."


Papelbon was P*ssed because he beaned a guy out of a fit of petty anger and no one stood behind him on it. Then Harper had the poor tact of commenting on it to the press saying that he expected to get drilled because of it (which he probably will, if not this year then next).

He should've been pissed.

In the "Good Old Days" if one of your teammates went to war, you went with him - ESPECIALLY if he was doing it in defense of the team (in this case, dude admired his homer and had it coming). He should've gained a lot of respect.

But, no. Selfish Bryce can't stomach the thought of taking one for his team (or, apparently, hustling on a routine play).

The sport ain't what it used to be, but i guess that's just a reflection of the culture in general.

[Julio3000]

In the good ole days, nobody had time to admire home runs because the outfield fence was a rope 500 feet away and the ball was basically a dirty, waterlogged rock. They were too busy running. Man. I miss the good ole days.

[yeezus]

you're referring to what's commonly referred to - with good reason - as "The Good Ole Days."



He should've been pissed.

In the "Good Old Days" if one of your teammates went to war, you went with him - ESPECIALLY if he was doing it in defense of the team (in this case, dude admired his homer and had it coming). He should've gained a lot of respect.

But, no. Selfish Bryce can't stomach the thought of taking one for his team (or, apparently, hustling on a routine play).

The sport ain't what it used to be, but i guess that's just a reflection of the culture in general.

Ah, the classic "back in my day things were so much better!" post.
Papelbon totally plays the game the "right" way and has a lesson to teach the MVP.

[Julio3000]

In the good old days, gentlemen played cricket, not this vile "base ball."

[kingphatcow]

They were too busy running. Man. I miss the good ole days.

Exactly. Me too.

Not Bryce. He doesn't run. Or that Machado guy.

[kingphatcow]

Papelbon totally plays the game the "right" way and has a lesson to teach the MVP.

Ah, the "Dude A isn't an completely perfect representation of the ideal, so we discard anything Dude B can learn from him" post.

Juvenile. You must've gone to the Bryce Harper school of message boarding. You didn't even try. No effort.

Somebody choke this punk so he learns to post the right way.

[yeezus]

Ah, the "Dude A isn't an completely perfect representation of the ideal, so we discard anything Dude B can learn from him" post.

Juvenile. You must've gone to the Bryce Harper school of message boarding. You didn't even try. No effort.

Somebody choke this punk so he learns to post the right way.

naw but if every player ever who didn't run out a pop-fly in september with their team out of it were choked out we'd see it quite frequently. Papelbon is one of the last guys who should think it's his place to take a stand.

[kingphatcow]

naw but if every player ever who didn't run out a pop-fly in september with their team out of it were choked out we'd see it quite frequently. Papelbon is one of the last guys who should think it's his place to take a stand.

i know next to nothing about Papelbon. Maybe he's the worst guy ever (except for Bryce. Bryce is the worst).

But I've got no problem choking everyone who refuses to hustle.

Think about it... you're getting paid, at minimum, hundreds of thousands of dollars to play a game. the very least you can do is give a **** on every play. the least.

[Horsehide Harry]

you're referring to what's commonly referred to - with good reason - as "The Good Ole Days."



He should've been pissed.

In the "Good Old Days" if one of your teammates went to war, you went with him - ESPECIALLY if he was doing it in defense of the team (in this case, dude admired his homer and had it coming). He should've gained a lot of respect.

But, no. Selfish Bryce can't stomach the thought of taking one for his team (or, apparently, hustling on a routine play).

The sport ain't what it used to be, but i guess that's just a reflection of the culture in general.

Get off my lawn!

[kingphatcow]

Get off my lawn!

I'm not even 40 yet, but all you punk kids are pissing me off

[yeezus]

i know next to nothing about Papelbon. Maybe he's the worst guy ever (except for Bryce. Bryce is the worst).

But I've got no problem choking everyone who refuses to hustle.

Think about it... you're getting paid, at minimum, hundreds of thousands of dollars to play a game. the very least you can do is give a **** on every play. the least.

I think there's a select few who hustle on every single play.
And that's ok, to me.
They get paid to perform. Harper performed better than anyone this year. I can't stand him either. But he did his job, and then some.

[yeezus]

I'm not even 40 yet, but all you punk kids are pissing me off

that means you're like at least late-30s. which is old to mid-20 me. but not like, super old.

[yeezus]

plus, when was the last time Papelbon hustled? Harper did a whole lot more hustling and work than Pap did this year. He worked for 150 games, almost every day.

[gilesfan]

you're referring to what's commonly referred to - with good reason - as "The Good Ole Days."



He should've been pissed.

In the "Good Old Days" if one of your teammates went to war, you went with him - ESPECIALLY if he was doing it in defense of the team (in this case, dude admired his homer and had it coming). He should've gained a lot of respect.

But, no. Selfish Bryce can't stomach the thought of taking one for his team (or, apparently, hustling on a routine play).

The sport ain't what it used to be, but i guess that's just a reflection of the culture in general.

Explain to me again, how Machado "had it coming?"

[gilesfan]

Ah, the "Dude A isn't an completely perfect representation of the ideal, so we discard anything Dude B can learn from him" post.

Juvenile. You must've gone to the Bryce Harper school of message boarding. You didn't even try. No effort.

Somebody choke this punk so he learns to post the right way.

So what is the right and wrong way to play? Some one go beat up Bryce because, although he hit .330 with over 40 homers, he didn't run as hard as he could to first base in a situation that it wouldn't have matter if he crip walked, moonwalked, or turbo jetted to first base? What value is added to the team in Harper sprinting to first base vs. jogging? Does it make the team happier or something?

[gilesfan]

i know next to nothing about Papelbon. Maybe he's the worst guy ever (except for Bryce. Bryce is the worst).

But I've got no problem choking everyone who refuses to hustle.

Think about it... you're getting paid, at minimum, hundreds of thousands of dollars to play a game. the very least you can do is give a **** on every play. the least.

Why is that? What value is added to Nats fans by him running to first base vs. jogging?

[kingphatcow]

Some one go beat up Bryce because, although he hit .330 with over 40 homers, he didn't run as hard as he could to first base in a situation that it wouldn't have matter if he crip walked, moonwalked, or turbo jetted to first base?

it seems like you answered your own question here.

Character counts.

[kingphatcow]

Explain to me again, how Machado "had it coming?"

the rules may be "unwritten" but they're not "unknown".

[gilesfan]

it seems like you answered your own question here.

Character counts.

Does it show up in wins and losses? Or does it just show up in feel good stories?

[gilesfan]

the rules may be "unwritten" but they're not "unknown".

This whole sticking up for your team is so stupid. Every team has players that admire their homers. So teams should be upset when players do it to them? It similar to how Justin Upton would pimp the **** out of homers yet McCann would get upset if anyone did it to the Braves.

[kingphatcow]

Does it show up in wins and losses? Or does it just show up in feel good stories?

Eh, it translates. You live the same way you play.

Harper told me a thing or two about himself. When it doesn't matter to him, he's not going to give 100%. I think that's sad for such a supremely talented kid.

[kingphatcow]

This whole sticking up for your team is so stupid. Every team has players that admire their homers. So teams should be upset when players do it to them? It similar to how Justin Upton would pimp the **** out of homers yet McCann would get upset if anyone did it to the Braves.

got it. if in need of allies, don't call Gilesfan. he prefers vanity to loyalty.

PS - upton had it coming too

[yeezus]

Eh, it translates. You live the same way you play.

Harper told me a thing or two about himself. When it doesn't matter to him, he's not going to give 100%. I think that's sad for such a supremely talented kid.

this is so silly.
how many players do you figure give it 100% every play of every game?

[kingphatcow]

how many players do you figure give it 100% every play of every game?

only the ones with the best character.

[gilesfan]

Eh, it translates. You live the same way you play.

Harper told me a thing or two about himself. When it doesn't matter to him, he's not going to give 100%. I think that's sad for such a supremely talented kid.

I guess you could say that about 99.9% of players bc that is the percentage of guys that would have jogged to first when a flyball is camped under. It's like people don't watch baseball.

I actually don't think it mattered to anyone if he jogged to first or sprinted. Who was affected by it?

We had a handful of instances last night of players meeting the criteria of hustling and that needed to be choked by AJ.

[gilesfan]

only the ones with the best character.

so, like 4? Am I in the ballpark?

[kingphatcow]

Who was affected by it?

If you're cool with mediocrity, that's what it is. I can't convince you to have pride.

[gilesfan]

If you're cool with mediocrity, that's what it is. I can't convince you to have pride.

What does mediocrity have to do with anything? Does Jose Bautista run out routine flyballs? Is he or the Blue Jays mediocre?

[kingphatcow]

so, like 4? Am I in the ballpark?

It should bother you more than it seems to. Of all 750 MLBers (before expanded rosters on 9/1), you think there are 4 with the level of hustle and respect to run out a routine play.

That's horrible news for baseball and everything else.

[kingphatcow]

What does mediocrity have to do with anything? Does Jose Bautista run out routine flyballs? Is he or the Blue Jays mediocre?

If he doesn't run out fly balls, he should be choked. Literally or metaphorically.

[gilesfan]

It should bother you more than it seems to. Of all 750 MLBers (before expanded rosters on 9/1), you think there are 4 with the level of hustle and respect to run out a routine play.

That's horrible news for baseball and everything else.

Yes, we must DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

[kingphatcow]

Yes, we must DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Step 1. Mock the guy arguing that character counts and defending the notion that "you should always hustle".
Step 2. Drown in mediocrity

You've got your plan, it seems.

As for me, I don't want my son growing up with the idea that there are meaningless moments in life. You can't control everything, but you damn well better control the things you can.

[50PoundHead]

this is so silly.
how many players do you figure give it 100% every play of every game?

If every player gave 100% on every play, the season would be over in July due to fatigue.

[kingphatcow]

If every player gave 100% on every play, the season would be over in July due to fatigue.

Your new America, Americans. We may have once ruled the world, but now it's too much to ask that we sprint 90 feet when paid millions to do so.

[Dalyn]

If every player gave 100% on every play, the season would be over in July due to fatigue.

So THAT is what happened...

[gilesfan]

Step 1. Mock the guy arguing that character counts and defending the notion that "you should always hustle".
Step 2. Drown in mediocrity

You've got your plan, it seems.

As for me, I don't want my son growing up with the idea that there are meaningless moments in life. You can't control everything, but you damn well better control the things you can.

Im mocking the guy that think jogging to first vs. sprinting is an indication of a character flaw over someone choking another person.

I hope your son doesn't attempt to play 162 baseball games.

[kingphatcow]

Im mocking the guy that think jogging to first vs. sprinting is an indication of a character flaw over someone choking another person.

I hope your son doesn't attempt to play 162 baseball games.

1. It IS a character indicator
2. I don't know what you're saying, unless you're saying that my son would also grow weary of doing the right thing in every instance. In which case, I assure you he will because we all do. But, when he inevitably does, I hope someone cares enough to kick his ass so he repeats his mistakes less frequently.

[kingphatcow]

i've really missed this.

[bravesfanMatt]

1. It IS a character indicator
2. I don't know what you're saying, unless you're saying that my son would also grow weary of doing the right thing in every instance. In which case, I assure you he will because we all do. But, when he inevitably does, I hope someone cares enough to kick his ass so he repeats his mistakes less frequently.

question.. if Harper sprinted to first, could he have made it to second if fielder dropped the ball? who knows.. did Harper run to first fast enough so that Fielder couldn't throw him out if he dropped the ball.. yes I would say so.

so conclusion. if he ran fast enough to make it to first in case of error, but no matter how fast he ran he wouldn't make it any further, who is to say he didn't hustle but just ran.. I never saw him actually running.. he paused for a moment at home as a reaction to a poor swing.. but did any camera catch how fast or slow he actual ran to first. every one says he jogged to first but are those words used to explain what happened or what really happened.. just looking at this from a different perspective..

[Julio3000]

I guess you'll also want to teach your kid this move:

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/poinsett/papelbon_crotch_grab_zpsyb3jldm1.jpg

Hey, Ted Williams flipped off the fans. Babe Ruth physically attacked them. Every generation of players "disrespects" the game in a way that offends previous generations. Ken Griffey Jr. used to cause all kinds of apoplexy by wearing his cap backwards during BP. He retired as a paragon of the baseball virtues, a symbol of the good guys. His father probably offended so-called purists by wearing his uniform pants too tight or, you know, by being black.

Times change.

[kingphatcow]

question.. if Harper sprinted to first, could he have made it to second if fielder dropped the ball? who knows.. did Harper run to first fast enough so that Fielder couldn't throw him out if he dropped the ball.. yes I would say so.

so conclusion. if he ran fast enough to make it to first in case of error, but no matter how fast he ran he wouldn't make it any further, who is to say he didn't hustle but just ran.. I never saw him actually running.. he paused for a moment at home as a reaction to a poor swing.. but did any camera catch how fast or slow he actual ran to first. every one says he jogged to first but are those words used to explain what happened or what really happened.. just looking at this from a different perspective..

according to CJ, the men who play(ed) the game agree with me.

I'm cool that the video game GMs don't.

[kingphatcow]

I guess you'll also want to teach your kid this move:

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/poinsett/papelbon_crotch_grab_zpsyb3jldm1.jpg

Hey, Ted Williams flipped off the fans. Babe Ruth physically attacked them. Every generation of players "disrespects" the game in a way that offends previous generations. Ken Griffey Jr. used to cause all kinds of apoplexy by wearing his cap backwards during BP. He retired as a paragon of the baseball virtues, a symbol of the good guys. His father probably offended so-called purists by wearing his uniform pants too tight or, you know, by being black.

Times change.

that's MY move. I take it all back. #PapelbonSucks

And, if i read you correctly, it's essentially "we're swirling down the toilet, sh!t's real. deal with it."

[bravesfanMatt]

according to CJ, the men who play(ed) the game agree with me.

I'm cool that the video game GMs don't.

I simply asked if you have seen video of Harper actually running to first.. the pause at home I remember, but I don't remember ever seeing him run.. So how fast or slow did he get down the line? you can assume how I feel about the situation and make smart ass remarks, but that question still stands, have you seen actual video of him running to first.. I am sure it exists...

[gilesfan]

according to CJ, the men who play(ed) the game agree with me.

I'm cool that the video game GMs don't.

No, according to CJ there were 12 people that agree with you.

[kingphatcow]

I simply asked if you have seen video of Harper actually running to first.. the pause at home I remember, but I don't remember ever seeing him run.. So how fast or slow did he get down the line? you can assume how I feel about the situation and make smart ass remarks, but that question still stands, have you seen actual video of him running to first.. I am sure it exists...

yes. it's part of the video where Papelbon chokes him for NOT running

[kingphatcow]

No, according to CJ there were 12 people that agree with you.

he asked 12, 12 took the stance I've taken. 100% of the people polled.

right, right... SSS

[Horsehide Harry]

I'm not even 40 yet, but all you punk kids are pissing me off

That's just too darn bad right internet tough guy?

[kingphatcow]

That's just too darn bad right internet tough guy?

i was agreeing with you that I'm a crotchety old man. Agreeing with you pisses you off. Disagreeing with you pisses you off.

I really don't know what to do anymore.

BUT I'D STILL RUN HARD TO FIRST BASE

[gilesfan]

he asked 12, 12 took the stance I've taken. 100% of the people polled.

right, right... SSS

I polled 12 people from this forum.......

Braves fans think they are the favorite to win the world series in 2016.

[Julio3000]

that's MY move. I take it all back. #PapelbonSucks

And, if i read you correctly, it's essentially "we're swirling down the toilet, sh!t's real. deal with it."

Yeah, I guess we are. If you think that wearing your uniform baggy/tight/cap backwards/conforming-to-current-fashion-and-offending-your-elders is a sign of impending apocalypse, I guess.

No, I'm saying that today's ballers are no less noble and virtuous than the players of the 70s, 50s, 30s, or 1890s. Which is to say, not noble and virtuous at all. Just highly skilled and flawed human beings. And that every generation says the same about their successors. I mean, you know that and whatnot, but big ups on the trollery.

[kingphatcow]

Yeah, I guess we are. If you think that wearing your uniform baggy/tight/cap backwards/conforming-to-current-fashion-and-offending-your-elders is a sign of impending apocalypse, I guess.

No, I'm saying that today's ballers are no less noble and virtuous than the players of the 70s, 50s, 30s, or 1890s. Which is to say, not noble and virtuous at all. Just highly skilled and flawed human beings. And that every generation says the same about their successors. I mean, you know that and whatnot, but big ups on the trollery.

first of all, thank you for noticing.
Second, sincerely, we shouldn't be accepting of that fact that we're all ****-ups. It should bother us enough to hold ourselves and each other to higher standards.

That can't be THAT outrageous a statement, can it?

[kingphatcow]

I polled 12 people from this forum.......

Braves fans think they are the favorite to win the world series in 2016.

no, they don't.

but you could get a job at the NYT with journalistic instincts like that

[gilesfan]

no, they don't.

but you could get a job at the NYT with journalistic instincts like that

Yes, they do. I interviewed 12 people. Why do you mean they dont?

[bravesfanMatt]

The video where Papelbon chokes Harper because he wanted revenge and was a passive aggressive baby, only showed Harper holding bat and being frustrated after missing pitch he thought he could hit and then turning to run to first before said video cut to left fielder making catch. Then the video shows Harper returning to dugout from 1st base. Now again. did anyone see Harper run to first or are you judging him on hear se?!?

[Julio3000]

first of all, thank you for noticing.
Second, sincerely, we shouldn't be accepting of that fact that we're all ****-ups. It should bother us enough to hold ourselves and each other to higher standards.

That can't be THAT outrageous a statement, can it?

Nah. But Johnathan Papelbon may not be the best ambassador for the "Be Better" movement.

[yeezus]

first of all, thank you for noticing.
Second, sincerely, we shouldn't be accepting of that fact that we're all ****-ups. It should bother us enough to hold ourselves and each other to higher standards.

That can't be THAT outrageous a statement, can it?

there have been players in every generation that do not run out every single fly ball.
you have never slacked at work?

[kingphatcow]

there have been players in every generation that do not run out every single fly ball.
you have never slacked at work?

Of course. what have i been doing today?

And I DESERVE TO BE CHOKED (literally or metaphorically).

Just because something is universally accepted, doesn't mean it's right, best or ideal.

[DirkPiggler]

I guess you'll also want to teach your kid this move:

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/poinsett/papelbon_crotch_grab_zpsyb3jldm1.jpg

Hey, Ted Williams flipped off the fans. Babe Ruth physically attacked them. Every generation of players "disrespects" the game in a way that offends previous generations. Ken Griffey Jr. used to cause all kinds of apoplexy by wearing his cap backwards during BP. He retired as a paragon of the baseball virtues, a symbol of the good guys. His father probably offended so-called purists by wearing his uniform pants too tight or, you know, by being black.

Times change.

Ken Griffey Sr. can go fist himself.

Before the 1978 game where Pete Rose's 44 game hitting streak ended, I along with several other kids asked for autographs from the Reds players in BP. One player, Cesar Geronimo, signed autographs. Pete Rose had a handler who told us all he wouldn't be signing anything. 22 other Redlegs either walked by quietly or said something like "sorry, maybe after the game" in a polite manner. Griffey pimp walked to the batter's box and said, "Joe DiMaggio didn't sign no autographs."

That's not a black/white thing. It's an asshole/ not an asshole thing.

Oh, and Bryce is a prick. Hopefully the Gnats will tire of his antics and trade him for some guys who don't strike out a lot and who play the game the right way. I know of a team that is fully stocked in that area...

[cajunrevenge]

I polled 12 people from this forum.......

Braves fans think they are the favorite to win the world series in 2016.

I could believe 1 out of 12 if thethe was still here.

[yeezus]

Of course. what have i been doing today?

And I DESERVE TO BE CHOKED (literally or metaphorically).

Just because something is universally accepted, doesn't mean it's right, best or ideal.

you're too old to be this bored.