McCain is an idiot...

[goldfly]

McCain: Young Americans admire Snowden, see him as ‘some kind of Jason Bourne’



A deep distrust of government has led young Americans to hold up NSA leaker Edward Snowden as a hero, Sen. John McCain said Sunday.

“There’s a young generation who believes he’s some kind of Jason Bourne,” the Arizona Republican said during on “Fox News Sunday,” referring to the lead character in the Bourne movie trilogy who battled his own government, particularly the CIA.


Mr. Snowden’s revelations — including details of the National Security Agency’s data-collection efforts — have led to a debate on the national security vs. privacy question, and how to balance the two.

President Obama last week laid out a series of proposed reforms to government spying programs in an effort to reassure Americans that their Fourth Amendment rights aren’t being trampled. His proposals include having a privacy advocate argue against the federal government in court, more restrictions on the mass collection of phone records and other steps.


Mr. McCain, a widely respected figure on national security and his party’s 2008 presidential nominee, said the White House’s recommendations could be beneficial.

But there’s a deeper problem that must be addressed, he said.

“Right now there’s kind of a generational change. Young Americans do not trust this government,” Mr. McCain said. “Without trusting government you can’t do a lot of things.”

Mr. Snowden now has been granted asylum in Russia in another blow to relations between the U.S. and its old Cold War foe.


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/11/mccain-young-americans-admire-snowden-see-him-some/#ixzz2bghn0AZa
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

[gilesfan]

Unfortunately he's right.

[weso1]

McCain is so 2008.

[The Chosen One]

Unfortunately he's right.

On which accounts?

[cajunrevenge]

Trusting the government would be like trusting Ted Bundy to babysit your kid. Sadly we will keep voting in status quo candidates who will continue to screw us over. What else are we gonna do? Vote for a third party? Nah thats not an option.

[57Brave]

“Right now there’s kind of a generational change. Young Americans do not trust this government,” Mr. McCain said. “Without trusting government you can’t do a lot of things.”
///

Until I see a birth certificate and ACORN is defunded I too distrust everything about the government siding with the young americans (young americans - she was a young american). Notice McCain said "this" government

I for one distrust blind sweeping distrust and try to avoid getting caught up in lynch mob mentality.

[JohnAdcox]

I used to really like and respect McCain. When he ran against Bush, I actually voted for him. I think losing to W just ... broke him. He's been picking up speed on the crazy train ever since.

[gilesfan]

On which accounts?

Young people admiring Snowden. Young people not trusting the government.

[The Chosen One]

Young people admiring Snowden. Young people not trusting the government.

Yeaaaaahhh.... no.

[sturg33]

As far as I'm concerned:

Snowden > 1
Obama > 0

It was awesome watching Obama in that press conference having to backtrack and talk about the measures needed to check the NSA. Then goes on to say Snowden is not a patriot - and we would have gotten to this point anyway. LOL

Anyone who trusts this government is full on stupid.

[gilesfan]

Yeaaaaahhh.... no.

Are you kidding? Do you read the internet? Do you read the news? You don't see young people admiring Snowden?

Heck, look at Sturg for an extreme example.

[57Brave]

I agree with what he's done but question his motives. Was he a prop? Why are the Russians protecting him?
As if the Russians have become the beacon of sunshine and transparency
Look at the sides. Who supports Snowdon and who condemns his actions --- technically Obama can not say anything but what he's said. Snowdon clearly violated his security clearances -- why?
He knew what he was doing. Did he take his job to expose ???

This thing is a long way from playing out and it may never really get told for another 100 years

[The Chosen One]

Are you kidding? Do you read the internet? Do you read the news? You don't see young people admiring Snowden? Heck, look at Sturg for an extreme example.Young people dont view him as Jason Bourne.Its also not just young people that admire Snowden.I know plenty of younger people who don't like Snowden. Not really fair to generalize this Snowden thing as a young person revolt.

[gilesfan]

Read reddit which has millions of users.

[sturg33]

How dare us young people admire a man that informed us our government was spying on all of us - not just the muslims.

What's sadder is the great lengths the sheep go to defend the government.

[goldfly]

Snowden is a patriot

[57Brave]

Snowdon is a whistle blower that lost his nerve. Dwight Eisenhower was a patriot.
The guy who volunteers to help your kids cross the street is a patriot. A fireman going into a burning building to save a child is a patriot

Patriot seems a bit heavy word for someone living in Moscow as we speak.

[goldfly]

Snowdon is a whistle blower that lost his nerve. Dwight Eisenhower was a patriot.
The guy who volunteers to help your kids cross the street is a patriot. A fireman going into a burning building to save a child is a patriot

Patriot seems a bit heavy word for someone living in Moscow as we speak.



haha, some good fox news america logic there

[goldfly]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/526297_678249411632_1063495376_n.jpg

[sturg33]

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies"

[thethe]

Was he a patriot for telling other countries that we were spying on them?

[weso1]

Was he a patriot for telling other countries that we were spying on them?

Yes, because the US should never ever keep any secrets. TRUTH is the true patriot of patriotism.

Building a nuke bomb to use on Japan during World War 2? Why was there secrecy no truth? Japan should've known. TRUTH is the courage of a patriot's existence.

[yeezus]

Yes, because the US should never ever keep any secrets. TRUTH is the true patriot of patriotism.

Building a nuke bomb to use on Japan during World War 2? Why was there secrecy no truth? Japan should've known. TRUTH is the courage of a patriot's existence.

The "truth" thing is being brought up in reference to the truth that the government has fuxed us over, me thinks.

[thethe]

Yes, because the US should never ever keep any secrets. TRUTH is the true patriot of patriotism.

Building a nuke bomb to use on Japan during World War 2? Why was there secrecy no truth? Japan should've known. TRUTH is the courage of a patriot's existence.

I wonder what the founding fathers would have done to someone had they found out they told the British of their plans.

I'm sure they would have shaken his hand and said, "Son, you are a Patriot!"

Sometimes, you guys are a trip. A Patriot? Please.

[yeezus]

I wonder what the founding fathers would have done to someone had they found out they told the British of their plans.

I'm sure they would have shaken his hand and said, "Son, you are a Patriot!"

Sometimes, you guys are a trip. A Patriot? Please.

I think him leaking the stuff about the NSA was an incredibly brave move. And it was important and good for the people.

[thethe]

I think him leaking the stuff about the NSA was an incredibly brave move. And it was important and good for the people.

And thats fine if his intent was to protect the American people. His intent was much more than that. He clearly had an axe to grind with the government because he went to our biggest rivals and shared with them what we were doing. That crosses a line.

If all he did was expose the domestic issues then he would be a Patriot in my eyes. Now he is just a coward and a traitor.

[weso1]

And thats fine if his intent was to protect the American people. His intent was much more than that. He clearly had an axe to grind with the government because he went to our biggest rivals and shared with them what we were doing. That crosses a line.

If all he did was expose the domestic issues then he would be a Patriot in my eyes. Now he is just a coward and a traitor.

But he told the Truth. And for that he is the treason of the country of lies.

[57Brave]

haha, some good fox news america logic there


a) please tell me you weren't really surprised to learn there was domestic spying -- please

b) why didnt Snowdon stand up and get arrested in St Louis and go through a trial? Imagine the info that would be exposed through a trial and the day by day drip by drip news stories -- now there will be no trial - just a guy that broke his word for no good reason. Other than what... ?

c) the intelligence community is monitoring US correspondence. I am shocked = Shoot, what will we learn next? They are still holding detainees in Gitmo

I just don't understand the outrage. And where was this outrage when it really mattered. Seems to me that all that could possibly (if anything) to come out of this is just another knee jerk reaction. Which is what got us into this in the first place. A knee jerk reaction.
////////////////

the issue the government has to deal with is how do they protect 300M people.
It is real simple to say the "government " should be open and in sunshine - but the reality is how ... ?
How? I detest the notion that I have no privacy -- but after this program has been in affect for ten years -- how do you reel it back?
this issue makes it look like binLaden won.

I take it back about Eisenhower. Eisenhower in 1944 was a hero and patriot. Eisenhower in 1954 was a pig installing the Shah and really setting this whole affair in motion

[thethe]

Every government that has ever existed at any point in civilization has lied to its citizens.

[Metaphysicist]

Building a nuke bomb to use on Japan during World War 2? Why was there secrecy no truth? Japan should've known. TRUTH is the courage of a patriot's existence.


I wonder what the founding fathers would have done to someone had they found out they told the British of their plans.

I would imagine countries we are at war with are already aware we are spying on them. Are you guys really unable to differentiate between spying on enemies and spying allies?

[thethe]

Who in this scenario are our allies?

[weso1]

I would imagine countries we are at war with are already aware we are spying on them. Are you guys really unable to differentiate between spying on enemies and spying allies?

Bleh... I'm imagining posts I made that I didn't wind up posting that I thought I did. While my reply was a quote from thethe, my post was really about the general idea that truth is what makes a patriot. This is of course way too simplistic and really just pretty absurd. Because we absolutely need some state secrets to remain secrets. I mean... it was a very general statement both Crumpfish and sturg made. It wasn't about US spying on allies.

Of course I see the difference, but it's not for Snowden to decide whether or not we should be spying on certain allies assuming he doesn't have all the info.


^ edited for clarification.

[Carp]

How dare us young people admire a man that informed us our government was spying on all of us - not just the muslims.

What's sadder is the great lengths the sheep go to defend the government.

LOL.

You're a fool if you think he wanted to expose the government as some sort righteous move.

He is selling confidential information to foreign countries. What an inspirational hero

[Carp]

I think him leaking the stuff about the NSA was an incredibly brave move. And it was important and good for the people.

I fail to see how this is good for anyone.

The US is not going to stop spying, nor should they stop. We have now pissed off 2 big allies, one of them being a former enemy from a not so distant past. This aftermath of this is going to cost the American taxpayers millions of dollars in all likelihood.

Good for the people indeed.....

[DjGrizz]

Um pretty sure that Snowden can't wheelhouse kick like Jason Bourne. Stupid McCain

[Metaphysicist]

Who in this scenario are our allies?

Basically everyone outside the UK and it's commonwealth children (the nice white ones, at least).

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_mass_surveillance_disclosures#Media_reports_b ased_on_documents_provided_by_Edward_Snowden)

[thethe]

Basically everyone outside the UK and it's commonwealth children (the nice white ones, at least).

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_mass_surveillance_disclosures#Media_reports_b ased_on_documents_provided_by_Edward_Snowden)

So Russia and China are our allies?

[Krgrecw]

Snowdens a puss. if he was a real patriot he'd return and have his day in court. Instead the dude is being used by a country with a horrendous human rights problem.

[sturg33]

LOL.

You're a fool if you think he wanted to expose the government as some sort righteous move.

He is selling confidential information to foreign countries. What an inspirational hero

Can you show me where he is selling info? Thanks

[sturg33]

Snowdens a puss. if he was a real patriot he'd return and have his day in court. Instead the dude is being used by a country with a horrendous human rights problem.

Right. Because our government would surely treat him fairly. Look what they did to Bradley Manning for months/years. Then they come out and admit "well, his leaks never actually resulted in anyone getting hurt." Yet he was abused and tortured in military prisons.

[sturg33]

Anyone who calls him a traitor guilty of treason is a cokplete moron. Treason is the ONE thing in our constitution that is absolutely clearly defined.

There is a very simple reason why our government did not charge him with treason, and it is because he didn't commit treason.

[thethe]

So you believe it was ok that he told China and Russia what we were doing to them?

[sturg33]

So you believe it was ok that he told China and Russia what we were doing to them?

Can you explain what you mean by that? What did he leak, specifically to those countries, and how?

[thethe]

Can you explain what you mean by that? What did he leak, specifically to those countries, and how?

Told China we were hacking into their computers for one.

Do you actually believe he didn't tell them anything?

[sturg33]

Can you show me what he leaked, and how?

[thethe]

Can you show me what he leaked, and how?

Wow...this is the angle you are taking?

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259508/edward-snowden-us-government-has-been-hacking-hong-kong-and-china

[sturg33]

So you have nothing on Russia, and the best you have for China is that the US hacks into Chineese computers with no evidence of military computers. This of course, has been going on and known for years - as China does the same to us. Basically cyber warfare.

So I'm still curious - what has he leaked to other countries that have endangered my safety? And to carp, what has he sold?

[goldfly]

"you should know they are spying on and breaking the constitution that they are supposed to protect"

great logic

it is Snowden and everyone else that is the criminal and not the people actually doing the illegal spying etc :rollseyes

[Metaphysicist]

So Russia and China are our allies?

This is some pretty terrible reading comprehension on your part. Try reading the link again and see if you can find a reference to another country or fifteen.

[CK86]

Snowden is a patriot

Truth. Snowden sacrificed his entire life to expose the wrongdoings of our government. He won't get a fair trial here in the U.S., look at Bradley Manning's situation. There are plenty of wonderful people in the government, but the ones in power have determined the only way to keep us "safe" is a "police state". It's coming so much sooner than most people realize.

[CK86]

Was he a patriot for telling other countries that we were spying on them?

Yes.

[CK86]

b) why didnt Snowdon stand up and get arrested in St Louis and go through a trial? Imagine the info that would be exposed through a trial and the day by day drip by drip news stories -- now there will be no trial - just a guy that broke his word for no good reason. Other than what... ?

He has absolutely zero chance of ever getting a fair trial here in the states. Likewise, there's no way the trial would actually be open to the public, everything would be sealed "in the interest of national security". If you actually believe he'd have gotten a fair trial then you've lost your mind.

The Constitution used to mean something. Apparently domestic spying on innocent civilians is A-ok now to Democrats and Republicans alike. So much for that whole 4th amendment, who needs that? The Democrats were against the Patriot act when W was in office but now that it's their boy Obama, it's all good.

[Metaphysicist]

Truth. Snowden sacrificed his entire life to expose the wrongdoings of our government. He won't get a fair trial here in the U.S., look at Bradley Manning's situation. There are plenty of wonderful people in the government, but the ones in power have determined the only way to keep us "safe" is a "police state". It's coming so much sooner than most people realize.

Bradley Manning was in the military, broke military law, and thus was tried in military court. His situation is not the same as Snowden's.

[57Brave]

Bradley Manning was in the military, broke military law, and thus was tried in military court. His situation is not the same as Snowden's.

Which opens a whole other can of worms. He worked for a sub- contractor -- our entire military-intelligence-security establishment is being farmed out to the lowest bidder or those with the most influence. All outside of the USMCJ and as we learned in Iraq pretty much a group operating outside the law.

In other words Snowdon was in affect a mercenary.
I'm not sure how I feel about that or the shift to independent contractors replacing the military

[zitothebrave]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/11/politics/mccain-carney-tv-fight/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I'm sure most would say I don't like the democrats, but holy **** is John McCain dumb.

Doesn't he realize the Iraq withdrawal was negotiated by his homeslice Bush? Senility is a sad thing.

[The Chosen One]

I actually happened to be watching that last night and kept shaking my head. Sad I used to like McCain a long time ago. Last night just showed how bitter he was he lost, just like when he showed the same nasty attitude at the health care summit. Thank god he's retiring soon.

[50PoundHead]

Are we talking about the young Americans David Bowie sang about?

Anyway, I think it was on either Colbert or Letterman where the joke was McCain was mad because we didn't bomb Stonehenge after Obama had been there. I've never been a big McCain fan--young folks forget he was a member of the Keating 5 (only Republican I think)--and he's simply become inconsistent and erratic. Only thing he's consistent about is bombing the sh*t out of someone. If we had intervened in Syria when he wanted to, the weapons we would have supplied to the rebels would now be in use against the Kurds and Iraqis.

[Hawk]

Doesn't he realize the Iraq withdrawal was negotiated by his homeslice Bush?

The issue here is not so much the withdrawal, but the Obama administration's inability to properly secure ANY sort of residual force in Iraq. We have one Afghanistan. We had one in Vietnam.

Obviously, we wouldn't care if ISIL hadn't reared its ugly head. But it did, as Hillary Clinton, among others, accurately warned the Oval Office about.

This is what John McCain is pissed about. As a lot of Americans should be too -- but we're more concerned with celebrity domestic violence and other trivialities.

By the way, for a senile old codger, McCain deliciously skewered Carney (who IMO, was Obama's worst press secretary).

[zitothebrave]

The troop withdrawal had been negotiated a long time ago. Maybe if we didn't decide to arm the Syrian rebels ISIS wouldn't have grown in power. Oh right we only armed and funded the "non-radicals" no way that money went the other way.

[Hawk]

The troop withdrawal had been negotiated a long time ago. Maybe if we didn't decide to arm the Syrian rebels ISIS wouldn't have grown in power. Oh right we only armed and funded the "non-radicals" no way that money went the other way.

Although it seems easy to lump troop withdrawal and the notion of a residual force into the same category, the two are not mutually exclusive.

The Obama administration attempted to negotiate a force, but the Maliki government would not guarantee immunity for our troops. So Biden (who was point man) relented and the rest is recent history.

Also, if you actually think that our 'arming' of Syrian rebels single-handedly propelled ISIL to where they are now then you grossly misunderstand the situation in Iraq.

[zitothebrave]

I know so many things about Iraq and Syria.

[Hawk]

Great kebab.

[zitothebrave]

Great kebab.

I seriously could go on for hours on it but it's all been said before. ISIL is Al Qaeda part 2. We trained them we funded them we did it all. Sure not directly but certainly indirectly.

[Julio3000]

The Saudis and the other Gulf states essentially pay off the bad guys to create trouble anywhere other than inside their borders. As long as we're snuggling up to them, as we have for the past 40+ years, we're contributing to the problem.

[zitothebrave]

The Saudis and the other Gulf states essentially pay off the bad guys to create trouble anywhere other than inside their borders. As long as we're snuggling up to them, as we have for the past 40+ years, we're contributing to the problem.

Yup. And many other issues. Some ISIL leaders were trained by the Israelis. Could go on. US is awesome at proxy terrorism.

[50PoundHead]

Although it seems easy to lump troop withdrawal and the notion of a residual force into the same category, the two are not mutually exclusive.

The Obama administration attempted to negotiate a force, but the Maliki government would not guarantee immunity for our troops. So Biden (who was point man) relented and the rest is recent history.

Also, if you actually think that our 'arming' of Syrian rebels single-handedly propelled ISIL to where they are now then you grossly misunderstand the situation in Iraq.

Not single-handedly of course, but in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king and ISIL (glad you use that acronym) has 20/20 vision on their goal.

[Dalyn]

This is too harsh. He's turned it around a little in the second half.

[Hawk]

Some ISIL leaders were trained by the Israelis. Could go on. US is awesome at proxy terrorism.

And the bastard who beheaded Foley and Sotloff was probably born, educated, and indoctrinated in the United Kingdom.

What's your point?


ISIL is Al Qaeda part 2.

Because it is an off-shoot of Al-Qaeda extremists.

The 'JV team' as Obama eloquently put it.

[Julio3000]

This is too harsh. He's turned it around a little in the second half.

I read this the exact same way.

[Hawk]

http://synthesis.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/mccainblood.jpg

[The Chosen One]

I read this the exact same way.

Sucks I don't get the reference.

[Julio3000]

Sucks I don't get the reference.

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff511/poinsett/1206s1-mccann-60p-rgb_zps1e5e01a0.jpg