The Market for McCann

[nsacpi]

Saw this quote from Ruben Amaro Jr.

"Catching is going to a very big priority for us - maybe the biggest. There are some players out there. But there's not a lot of catching in the industry. It's going to be a tough decision for us. We might have to look to try to acquire it via trade. Or we could be looking right here at Chooch [Ruiz]."

Who else might be looking for the catcher? If he does leave, I imagine McCann will make it a high priority to go to a contending team.

I suspect the Phillies would not qualify as a contending team.

Would the Yankees? They probably will try to re-sign Cano first, but might make a splash elsewhere if they lose him.

The Rangers certainly would. There were the reports of them asking about McCann before the trade deadline.

The Red Sox would be a fit too. Saltalamacchia is going to be a free agent and Ross has been dealing with a concussion.

The Dodgers could look to upgrade the position. But Robinson Cano might be their main priority.

I have a feeling the team that makes the biggest offer for him will be the loser of the Dodgers-Yankees battle over Cano.

Anyone else that might be a serious competitor?

[yeezus]

He will have to take a discount to stay here.

[zitothebrave]

He will have to take a discount to stay here.

That's always been the case. That said I hope the Braves don't just let him leave without giving him a shot to stick around. Which I fear they may.

[Braves1976]

I hate it but I don't see the Braves bringing him back. I expect the Rangers to sign him to a long term deal. They have wanted Mac for a while now.

[MadduxFanII]

Yeah. I mean, look at the list nscapi posted, which seems pretty reasonable to me. Boston, New York, Texas, Philadelphia...that's pretty much a who's who list of big spenders. McCann's had a great season coming back from injury, and he's been as consistently excellent as they come. Brian's getting paid.

[nsacpi]

Yeah. I mean, look at the list nscapi posted, which seems pretty reasonable to me. Boston, New York, Texas, Philadelphia...that's pretty much a who's who list of big spenders. McCann's had a great season coming back from injury, and he's been as consistently excellent as they come. Brian's getting paid.

Some on that list are more plausible than others. I don't see Brian going to Philly, partly because they are a divisional rival and partly because they are an old team in decline. The Yankees are even older and are also in decline. Not sure if Brian wants to go there. But they sure need a catcher.

The two other American League teams (Boston and Texas) make the most sense, partly because of the DH option. Both are well run organizations (with the notable exception of the Bobby Valentine hiccup). Contending teams. Good-sized payrolls. Boston did make a point of avoiding signings last off-season that would have cost them their #1 draft pick. That is becoming increasingly important to most teams. Texas probably is our #1 rival for holding on to Brian's services.

The Dodgers are a wild card. I think they will keep spending freely, but if they get Cano they might stop there.

[yeezus]

He better not go to Philly.

[gtcway]

He'll go to the team that offers him the most money. Just hope it's not the phillies:Sad:

[Carp]

I hate it but I don't see the Braves bringing him back. I expect the Rangers to sign him to a long term deal. They have wanted Mac for a while now.


I think this is the most likely case only if the Rangers don't acquire Stanton, which I think will eventually happen. At least, if this does happen, Mac will play for a team that I don't hate. And he will be able to improve his HOF status tremendously playing in that park.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Dont overlook Detroit. Especially if they make a long run in the post season.

[cajunrevenge]

I think you can count the Phillies out because they need right handed bats. If McCann hit lefties better then it might make a little sense for them but they already have Utley/Howard/Brown/Revere hitting lefty and Cody Ashe who might be their 3B next year hits lefty too. The market as I see it.

Rangers - We know they are interested. They need a big bat and they dont have a single good lefty hitter on the team. I would expect them to be the favorites.
Red Sox - Thanks to the Dodgers charity they have a lot of money to spend which likely wont be on Ellsbury.
Yankees - They are in on every big free agent. Should they lose Cano I expect McCann to be a high priority for them. Should they sign him you can thank ARoid and Selig for the Yankees having the money to do it.
Cubs - Darkhorse imo. They are going to have to start winning at some point. I think they will sign atleast 1 big free agent this offseason.


Tigers - Dont see it happening, too much money tied up and they will give a big extension to Scherzer. If it was after 2014 I could have seen them going after McCann.
Dodgers - They have a decent hitting catcher who is also cheap. I expect them to go hard after Cano. Dont see them signing McCann.

By my estimation the Braves would be at around 90-95 million next year keeping the same team(this assumes Hudson re-signs)before re-signing McCann. However this next season every team is getting a 25 million boost in revenue from the new national TV contract. If just 15 million of that makes it to payroll they should be able to give him atleast what Yadi Molina got.

[Bj1133]

I think he comes back

[TDlxANDER]

Tough decision for BMac. Be a Brave all your life with the hometown discount....or take this last real opportunity to have a big pay day. I'd love for him to stick around....but I wouldn't be mad at him if he left. I, too, hope the FO makes real effort to keep him around though.

[kingphatcow]

i think we'll see the "Chipper Effect" - Mac, as a team leader, watched Chipper go out on top as a lifetime Brave. He'll want that too. The younger guys may be to young to be thinking Legacy yet, but Mac's getting to an age where he's thinking about how he'll be remembered. Unfortunately, if the Braves do sign him we'll see the "Dale Murphy Effect" where the team trades a loyal but declining player so that he can't retire from one team.

[Dunit24]

Im starting to get the feeling he will be back. However, I think if he does take the money, it will be to an AL team where he can DH some. I dont want to say that its a win win for us, but if he does return..awesome. If he doesnt...we have Gattis, Laird, Bethancourt and the cash we were going to pay Mac with.

[BlackwaterPark]

Tough decision for BMac. Be a Brave all your life with the hometown discount....or take this last real opportunity to have a big pay day. I'd love for him to stick around....but I wouldn't be mad at him if he left. I, too, hope the FO makes real effort to keep him around though.

Sorry, but he can live amazingly well for the rest of his life, and his childrens life even on what Atlanta would offer him...

[zitothebrave]

Sorry, but he can live amazingly well for the rest of his life, and his childrens life even on what Atlanta would offer him...

It's never that simple. Everyone pretends it is but these guys are a commodity and they know that. If he wants to be valued to his full potential than he'll sign a higher deal. It has nothing to do with living his life, or having money for his kids. That's largely irrelevant, it honestly more often than not has to do with being valued as one of the top players in the game.

[ProbationDeac]

That's always been the case. That said I hope the Braves don't just let him leave without giving him a shot to stick around. Which I fear they may.

I think they'll make an offer to him. If he's looking for a big pay day he won't stay here. He'll have to give a big hometown discount and who knows he may do it. But I think the writing is on the wall for this one. He's had a great season coming back from injury and I think he'll get paid accordingly for it.

[gilesfan]

Braves are in a tough spot. Lose McCann and you possibly add a blackhole to lineup (gattis/Bethancourt) to go along with Uggla, Simmons, Upton. Plus, you have to assume regression with Johnson. That leaves the everyday lineup as a huge question mark. Or you sign him and you worry about whether he can keep it up in the back half of his contract.

I say keep him because Texas and Philly are going to throw a **** ton of money his way.

[nsacpi]

I'd make go up to 16-17M/year for four years plus an option. If he cares about staying in Atlanta that should be good enough. There's always a chance some other team will blow that offer out of the water. We don't have to join them in the craziness.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Where to start? I think the resurggence of Heyward has created a dilema for Wren tho a very positive dilema. Been awhile since weve had a productive leadoff batter. So where this is heading, if Heyward is retained long term then at least one of four big contracts has to go. Uggla CAN be dumped but it will be expensive, at least half will have to be eaten. See how long it took Cubs to divest of Soriano. BJ is unmoveable, Justin can probably be traded. McCann can go either way at this time. Personally, I think the NL shift on him, his aging and physical profile, and cost all add up to him moving on. If the Braves continue and run long thru the playoffs, there will be some HUGE arbitration awards (Kimbrel, Freeman, Johnson and Heyward all will get rich this off season),

[yeezus]

I'd make go up to 16-17M/year for four years plus an option. If he cares about staying in Atlanta that should be good enough. There's always a chance some other team will blow that offer out of the water. We don't have to join them in the craziness.

He better take it if we offer 17 mil.

[Russ2dollas]

I think we'll have to offer 15 for 5 years to get him. He'll get more from the rangers.

I would see if he'd take a front loaded deal. We have some guys that will need to get paid soon. Could we pay McCann 20 million in year 1 and 10 million in year 5 to protect us from the risk?

[bravebonebook]

1. Will BMac want to be remembered for playing with one team his entire career. Those kinds of players are dinosaurs in modern MLB (unfortunately). If so, he'll have to take a 'hometown discount'. For argument's sake, I say he should.
2. Do the Braves need him? Maybe, at the right price but he will assuredly decline in the latter years of his contract. Then do the Braves stay as loyal to him as he was to them if he re-signs? Gentlemen's agreements and the like are dead in modern MLB (even Murph wasn't immune to it. for God's sake).
3. If BMac stays with the Braves, he'll have his jersey retired. Is he the greatest catcher in Braves history? He'd be the only catcher on the 'wall'. I don't think BMac is HOF worthy but definitely Braves hof if he stays. Is that as important to him as it was to Chipper?
4. I don't believe he has to take the largest amount of money offered, a la Glavine. He's made enough (including the next contract he signs) to be set for his life and those of his children. IMO, being known for the value/ highest contract at your position/ etc. is a load of crap. He'll have more money than any of us and could be remembered by every Braves fan like Chipper. Or he could be like most every other ballplayer and get dragged around by the nose by the paycheck!

Heart says he'll discover more important reasons than almighty dollars and re-sign with the Braves. My head says money will remain supreme and he'll sign with the Rangers or Dodgers (who will never stop having enough money to throw at every free agent if they want them).

[PawPawMaxwell]

1. Will BMac want to be remembered for playing with one team his entire career. Those kinds of players are dinosaurs in modern MLB (unfortunately). If so, he'll have to take a 'hometown discount'. For argument's sake, I say he should.
2. Do the Braves need him? Maybe, at the right price but he will assuredly decline in the latter years of his contract. Then do the Braves stay as loyal to him as he was to them if he re-signs? Gentlemen's agreements and the like are dead in modern MLB (even Murph wasn't immune to it. for God's sake).
3. If BMac stays with the Braves, he'll have his jersey retired. Is he the greatest catcher in Braves history? He'd be the only catcher on the 'wall'. I don't think BMac is HOF worthy but definitely Braves hof if he stays. Is that as important to him as it was to Chipper?
4. I don't believe he has to take the largest amount of money offered, a la Glavine. He's made enough (including the next contract he signs) to be set for his life and those of his children. IMO, being known for the value/ highest contract at your position/ etc. is a load of crap. He'll have more money than any of us and could be remembered by every Braves fan like Chipper. Or he could be like most every other ballplayer and get dragged around by the nose by the paycheck!

Heart says he'll discover more important reasons than almighty dollars and re-sign with the Braves. My head says money will remain supreme and he'll sign with the Rangers or Dodgers (who will never stop having enough money to throw at every free agent if they want them).
Your second point is most telling IMO. Braves dont/wont give No Trade contracts. Taking less money would demand that he get a no trade. Who would cave in first.

[chopdrew]

He's gone, and I'm not sure the braves fight that hard to kelp him, since they already have his replacement at the league minimum a couple more years. And lol at gilesfan calling Gattis a black hole. His hole didn't look too black when he was taking your boy Strasburg deep.

[DirkPiggler]

Your second point is most telling IMO. Braves dont/wont give No Trade contracts. Taking less money would demand that he get a no trade. Who would cave in first.

The no trade would only be an issue for one more year. Mac will be a 10/5 guy starting in 2015.

[gilesfan]

He's gone, and I'm not sure the braves fight that hard to kelp him, since they already have his replacement at the league minimum a couple more years. And lol at gilesfan calling Gattis a black hole. His hole didn't look too black when he was taking your boy Strasburg deep.

If McCann leaves, the spot will likely be Bethancourt/Gattis. Bethancourt is a great defender that hasn't put together offensively yet. Gattis hasn't hit a lick since May. Maybe he figures it out, but his lack of on base skills is a big question mark and his batting average is supported by a very low line drive rate. So, yes he does have some pop and maybe that's enough to be acceptable for a catcher. I'm just not convinced that 1 offensive skill makes him a league average hitter.

[PawPawMaxwell]

The no trade would only be an issue for one more year. Mac will be a 10/5 guy starting in 2015.

True enough but 10/5 guys get asked to waive that clause all the time. But with a big enough discount it probably wouldnt be important.

[nsacpi]

True enough but 10/5 guys get asked to waive that clause all the time. But with a big enough discount it probably wouldnt be important.

Have the Braves ever asked a player like Chipper or Smoltz to waive the no trade?

[PawPawMaxwell]

Have the Braves ever asked a player like Chipper or Smoltz to waive the no trade?
I dont know. Do you? But for discussion sake, McCann is not in the same category as Chipper or Smoltz just yet. No HOF credentials if you get my drift.

[nsacpi]

They traded Murphy. But that was a bad team that needed to rebuild.

[PawPawMaxwell]

They traded Murphy. But that was a bad team that needed to rebuild.
They also let Maddux and Glavine walk for a lot less money than the 17M you are wanting to offer McCann.

[gilesfan]

They also let Maddux and Glavine walk for a lot less money than the 17M you are wanting to offer McCann.

Did you account for time value of money?

[nsacpi]

Also Glavine and Maddux were in their late 30s when they left.

[bravebonebook]

I am bracing for the worst. Signing McCann long term is like signing an aging pitcher; both will probably decline significantly before the end of their contract. And I hesitate using Glavine as an example because he was Union-first, take the biggest contract available to prove a point. Atlanta's offer to Glavine would have been up to $40 million if the 4th year option had been accepted but with some money deferred (and greater respect for being with one team forever, IMO). He took the Mets $42 million offer with a 4th year option accepted and bolted for NY. Glavine lost the 'magic' of one team superstar over $2 million, union absurdities and a bruised ego! Thanks for Game 6 in 1995 but he'll NEVER have the same respect and admiration in my book as other Braves.

If BMac leaves for similar reasons or such a small difference in pay then to baseball H*** with him, too.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Did you account for time value of money?
Yes I understand inflation. I also understand the law of diminishing returns. But then again, it is all speculation on our part. But while on speculation: The veneration of Chipper being a life long member of the Braves is well deserved, but ponder on this for a moment. If ARod and Boras had accepted Schuerholz offer of 17M per in 2001, do you think Chipper would have been given his big deal a couple months later??

[Bravephoton]

I'd make go up to 16-17M/year for four years plus an option. If he cares about staying in Atlanta that should be good enough. There's always a chance some other team will blow that offer out of the water. We don't have to join them in the craziness.

McCann at 16M is too much for us. Especially with Uggla still on the books and BJ holding down the massive Ks in CF. Gattis can do the job behind the plate. I do not see a big dropoff there especially once Gattis learns to adjust to the strike zone. You are looking at an additional 15-16 million to use elsewhere by using Gattis over McCann.

This is business and the best business decision it to let McCann walk.

[gilesfan]

McCann at 16M is too much for us. Especially with Uggla still on the books and BJ holding down the massive Ks in CF. Gattis can do the job behind the plate. I do not see a big dropoff there especially once Gattis learns to adjust to the strike zone. You are looking at an additional 15-16 million to use elsewhere by using Gattis over McCann.

This is business and the best business decision it to let McCann walk.

Explain how there isn't much of a dropoff between Gattis and MCCann

[Dunit24]

I dont understand the concern with Gattis. I just think hes fatigued. Its been a long yr for him starting with winter ball. He made it look easy early on. He will adjust and become a 25-30 HR hitter if we decide to start him at catcher next season. My worries with him come on the defensive side.

I wouldnt go as far as saying Gattis is better or even equal to McCann, but if Gattis hits .250 w/15-20 HR, 80 RBI, id take that over paying McCann 15-18 million a season to hit .280, 20-25 HR, 80 RBI.

I just dont believe Gattis is as bad as he has looked since early on. If someone wants to think that, fine, but I think its obvious Gattis is going to be a big time power bat for us for a long time.

[nsacpi]

Our situation at catcher is something most teams would kill for. We have a difficult decision to make in terms of how aggressively to work to retain McCann. But it is not a bad problem to have.

[cajunrevenge]

It's never that simple. Everyone pretends it is but these guys are a commodity and they know that. If he wants to be valued to his full potential than he'll sign a higher deal. It has nothing to do with living his life, or having money for his kids. That's largely irrelevant, it honestly more often than not has to do with being valued as one of the top players in the game.

It really is that simple though. He could not make another penny beyond this year and live an extremely wealthy life. What does "being valued to his full potential" do for him? No one will remember him for how much money he makes. I wont hate McCann if he leaves but if he leaves it is for no reason but greed. I wont blame him, I blame his agent and the union. The agent is the one that fills their head with the "you have to get what your worth" crap and the union pressures them to take the most they can so it doesnt negatively affect the FA market for other players. There are very few people in this world that would not be satisfied with getting 50+ million dollars.

[DirkPiggler]

True enough but 10/5 guys get asked to waive that clause all the time. But with a big enough discount it probably wouldnt be important.

Guys with no trade clauses get asked to waive them all the time as well.

The only reason a player ever wants or needs a no-trade clause is to prevent his team from trading him without his prior approval. The 10/5 rule accomplishes the same thing, so there is no reason for McCann to require a no-trade clause past the first year of any contract he signs with the Braves. Such a clause will be a non-issue in any negotiations between McCann and the Braves, at least from the player's side.

[gilesfan]

There are few people in this world that would take less money than they are worth. That doesn't matter if salary is 10k, 50k, 100k, 1,000,000 or 50,000,000.

[yeezus]

It really is that simple though. He could not make another penny beyond this year and live an extremely wealthy life. What does "being valued to his full potential" do for him? No one will remember him for how much money he makes. I wont hate McCann if he leaves but if he leaves it is for no reason but greed. I wont blame him, I blame his agent and the union. The agent is the one that fills their head with the "you have to get what your worth" crap and the union pressures them to take the most they can so it doesnt negatively affect the FA market for other players. There are very few people in this world that would not be satisfied with getting 50+ million dollars.

Him being set for life already is not the point. Most people in general want to get paid what they're worth/as much as someone is willing to give them. I'd have no problem if someone offered Mac 18 mil that we couldn't match and he took it.

[chopdrew]

There are few people in this world that would take less money than they are worth. That doesn't matter if salary is 10k, 50k, 100k, 1,000,000 or 50,000,000.

I disagree. NO ONE would take less than they're worth.

[yeezus]

I disagree. NO ONE would take less than they're worth.

Well that's not true, but there aren't many.

[GovClintonTyree]

The no trade would only be an issue for one more year. Mac will be a 10/5 guy starting in 2015.

I was just gonna say.

[stpeteirish]

I don't see how a NL team win the bidding here, there's just so much less risk for a him as a C/DH than as a everyday catcher in his 30's. In fact, is there really such a thing as an "everyday catcher in his 30's?" Throw in some deep pocketed AL teams and we're screwed.

[gilesfan]

Yadi is 30 and signed until 2017. I have zero doubt if on the market, a NL club will offer him a 4 year deal.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Ive maintained all along that in order to keep McCann, someone with a big contract would have to go. Convincing/forcing Uggla to have the eye surgery may be a prelude to the off season. If he comes back able to see/hit he will be infinitely more tradeable. Had he waited til the off season to have surgery it would have been spring training before some team could see if they had any interest.

[Orphan Black]

Even if McCann takes more to go elsewhere (as long as it isn't to an NL east team), I'll cheer the heck out of the guy. He deserves a payday. I obviously want him to be a Brave for life, and I'm sure if he wants to be Wren will make it happen.

[cajunrevenge]

Him being set for life already is not the point. Most people in general want to get paid what they're worth/as much as someone is willing to give them. I'd have no problem if someone offered Mac 18 mil that we couldn't match and he took it.

At the point I was getting 10+ million a year money becomes a lot less of an issue for me. If you had the option to make 15 million a year and live where you grew up and around your family or 18 million a year and spend half the year on the other side of the country away from your family and friends you would take the money? There are about 300 million people in the US who wish they had to settle for 15 million dollars a year. What he loses in money he gains in legacy and respect. Players that spend all or 95% of their career with one team are respected more.

[gilesfan]

Players that spend all or 95% of their career with one team are respected more.

By who? You?

[PawPawMaxwell]

At the point I was getting 10+ million a year money becomes a lot less of an issue for me. If you had the option to make 15 million a year and live where you grew up and around your family or 18 million a year and spend half the year on the other side of the country away from your family and friends you would take the money? There are about 300 million people in the US who wish they had to settle for 15 million dollars a year. What he loses in money he gains in legacy and respect. Players that spend all or 95% of their career with one team are respected more.
Im sorry Cajun but that just makes no sense in the real world.

[cajunrevenge]

Maybe I am just a better person than the rest of the world. Turning down 15 million a year to play for your home state team you grew up rooting for to make 18 million a year somewhere else is just pure greed and douchebaggery. Like I said I wont be mad at McCann. Like Andruw he signed one long term deal with the team which I respect him for. I blame the outside influences that make a man leave his favorite team for money he doesnt need. The only thing Brian can do to change that is if I hear him say the cliche bull**** that a lot of players say like "I need to make sure my family is taken care of" or "I would love to stay but thats up to the team not me".

[Russ2dollas]

I'm not sold on Gattis. I think he is a better hitter. I think playing him in LF is hurting him. It take a lot of extra energy for him to play LF and to play a position he doesn't know.

He has good at bats....mostly. He needs to have a better OBP. But you see him get some hits the other way....you see the promise.

Teams will run on us....

McCann to Gattis is a downgrade. Does anyone disagree with that? If we downgrade to Gattis, where do we pick it up? OF is set. 1B is FF. Simmons is set. We'd have to upgrade at 3B or 2B. CJ is having a big avg year, hard to make that up. How do we get rid of uggla.....

I think McCann is a Ranger. I HOPE he's a brave.

I think the longevity of McCann means he needs to be a DH some times. If he stays in the NL, then he might need rest 3/10 days or 4/10 instead of 1/5.

[Carp]

I'm not sold on Gattis. I think he is a better hitter. I think playing him in LF is hurting him. It take a lot of extra energy for him to play LF and to play a position he doesn't know.

He has good at bats....mostly. He needs to have a better OBP. But you see him get some hits the other way....you see the promise.

Teams will run on us....

McCann to Gattis is a downgrade. Does anyone disagree with that? If we downgrade to Gattis, where do we pick it up? OF is set. 1B is FF. Simmons is set. We'd have to upgrade at 3B or 2B. CJ is having a big avg year, hard to make that up. How do we get rid of uggla.....

I think McCann is a Ranger. I HOPE he's a brave.

I think the longevity of McCann means he needs to be a DH some times. If he stays in the NL, then he might need rest 3/10 days or 4/10 instead of 1/5.


I think another issue people are missing is that how much value we lose from the bench if we replace Mac with Gattis at catcher next yr.

[skidlee]

Why are so many just writing it off that Mac is gone?

I don't see mac like other FA's. I braves make a competitive offer he will be a brave IMO.

4 yrs in the 45-50 million dollar range.

[Carp]

I dont understand the concern with Gattis. I just think hes fatigued. Its been a long yr for him starting with winter ball. He made it look easy early on. He will adjust and become a 25-30 HR hitter if we decide to start him at catcher next season. My worries with him come on the defensive side.

I wouldnt go as far as saying Gattis is better or even equal to McCann, but if Gattis hits .250 w/15-20 HR, 80 RBI, id take that over paying McCann 15-18 million a season to hit .280, 20-25 HR, 80 RBI.

I just dont believe Gattis is as bad as he has looked since early on. If someone wants to think that, fine, but I think its obvious Gattis is going to be a big time power bat for us for a long time.


The thing is, we can have both. People don't need to act like it's one or the other. Gattis can still be a super sub and get plenty of playing time spelling mac every 5th day and playing LF and 1b the rest of the time. Also, we really need to see this off-season if he can handle 3b. He certainly has the arm for it.

[Carp]

Why are so many just writing it off that Mac is gone?

I don't see mac like other FA's. I braves make a competitive offer he will be a brave IMO.

4 yrs in the 45-50 million dollar range.


I hope we'll pawn off Uggla to the loser of the Cano sweepstakes and keep mac

[skidlee]

Gattis will not be asked to learn 3rd. It would not be pretty.

[bravebonebook]

Im sorry Cajun but that just makes no sense in the real world.

Pro athletes with the big contracts (7 digits per year kind) don't live in the 'real world'. Outside of tragedies to their family members, illnesses, etc. they don't face problems with mortgages, car payments or having to buy off the dollar menu at McDonald's. They live in gated communities with several expensive cars, an entourage, gourmet dinners, chartered flights, etc.

I'm sure BMac has (and will get) more than enough money to live very comfortably for the rest of his life by most people's standards. Will he take a little bit less to play for one team, his hometown team or abandon those ideals to get some extra millions for what? A yacht..an extra mansion...more ***elry or another luxury vehicle?

[bravebonebook]

Maybe I am just a better person than the rest of the world. Turning down 15 million a year to play for your home state team you grew up rooting for to make 18 million a year somewhere else is just pure greed and douchebaggery. Like I said I wont be mad at McCann. Like Andruw he signed one long term deal with the team which I respect him for. I blame the outside influences that make a man leave his favorite team for money he doesnt need. The only thing Brian can do to change that is if I hear him say the cliche bull**** that a lot of players say like "I need to make sure my family is taken care of" or "I would love to stay but thats up to the team not me".

Well said. Money cannot buy everything but the numbers these athletes make can set their lives up quite comfortably forever. When did it become all about the money and just accepted to be OK to be so?

[chopdrew]

Well said. Money cannot buy everything but the numbers these athletes make can set their lives up quite comfortably forever. When did it become all about the money and just accepted to be OK to be so?
Uh, outside of unicorn mcrainbowland, its been like that a long time. McCann will take the highest offer, and he should. Sentimentality doesn't play a role.

[bravebonebook]

Uh, outside of unicorn mcrainbowland, its been like that a long time. McCann will take the highest offer, and he should. Sentimentality doesn't play a role.

Ah, Unicorn McRainbowland...I remember it well. Was a super duper nice place before being trampled and destroyed by a waste management corporation needing more land. Shame what they did to all those bunnies.

Money. Guess it really is what makes me hate pro sports sometimes. But with this psychosis of being a fan, I'll continue to cheer for grown men (who could care less about me) playing a game and making millions of dollars to try to win a championship that will do nothing for my life other than make me feel a little better. All while I might not be able to scrounge enough dollars together to afford travel/hotel/food/ticket costs to even see them play in person.

So, in reality, if a fan favorite player leaves ONLY for the money it's all going to be OK because there's no crying in baseball..or sentimentality or ideals or lofty dreams. Got it. Thanks.

[zitothebrave]

Uh, outside of unicorn mcrainbowland, its been like that a long time. McCann will take the highest offer, and he should. Sentimentality doesn't play a role.

There have been way more than one player who've signed a team friendly deal for various teams. Some examples, Cliff Lee signed the 3rd biggest offer to him tojoin the Phillies. Maybe 4th, I just know it was way behind the Yankees and healthily behind the Rangers.

Could he go Pujols and spurn his home team? Sure. But he could also want to thrive as a hero for Atlanta.

[Carp]

Yes, but Lee is still one of the 10 best paid players in all of baseball I believe. So while he didn't take the highest offer, he didn't really do the Phils any favors so to speak with the contract he agreed to.

If the Braves offer a similar amount per season to the offers out there, I fully expect Mac to come back. If we lowball him (as we often do with our free agents) then I fully expect him to move on.

Never understood why we are so reluctant to pay our own free agents what it takes to keep them around, but we bid against ourselves in cases like Lowe and Upton.

[zitothebrave]

Yes, but Lee is still one of the 10 best paid players in all of baseball I believe. So while he didn't take the highest offer, he didn't really do the Phils any favors so to speak with the contract he agreed to.

If the Braves offer a similar amount per season to the offers out there, I fully expect Mac to come back. If we lowball him (as we often do with our free agents) then I fully expect him to move on.

Never understood why we are so reluctant to pay our own free agents what it takes to keep them around, but we bid against ourselves in cases like Lowe and Upton.

He still turned out nearly 20 million dollars to join the Phillies. Maybe more. Phillies are paying Lee that's for sure. But we'll be paying Mac. I highly doubt that Mac will take more in FA than Molina's 5/75 so I think if he gets offers of say 5/70 from the Rangers and we offer 4/48 with incentives and a vesting option, he may verywell take it to stay here and be a fixture.

[cajunrevenge]

Uh, outside of unicorn mcrainbowland, its been like that a long time. McCann will take the highest offer, and he should. Sentimentality doesn't play a role.

While I accept the argument that he wont take a lower contract to stay with the Braves I do not accept that he should take the highest offer. Hudson valued playing for the Braves at a 25% discount. Chipper took less money to be a Brave and even gave money back to help the team. Smoltz took less money to stay and be a reliever rather than more money to be a starter for the Yankees despite not even wanting to be a closer. I wont be upset if he leaves for a lot more money, but I will be if he leaves over 1 mill a year. I think if the Braves offer him a reasonably fair deal he will stay. I would put that at about 4-5 years at 15 million a year. It wouldnt be so big a deal to me if he didnt grow up in Georgia as a Braves fan. He dreamed of playing for the Braves, it would just signify that he is a changed man if he turned his back on that dream. I think he stays though.

[goldfly]

Chipper didn't give money back

[cajunrevenge]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tom_verducci/03/23/chipper.jones.japan/index.html

Chipper reworked his contract after the 2005 season saving the team 15 million over 3 years so they could be more competitive. His loyalty to the team is part of his legacy. He was getting paid 16 million a year 10 years ago so he wasnt getting chump change but the team had more money back then too. When someone talks about the draft and the #1 overall pick you almost always hear them say that you want to draft the next Chipper Jones with that pick. People will be saying that for the next 20+ years. Teams have made trades with the Braves specifically saying they wanted a player who had played with Chipper Jones. I just want to see Brian continue the legacy of Chipper Jones. I do think people are jumping to conclusions that he will leave for more money. The reason he wasnt extended was because he was having down years so it was hard to pin down what his value was. Obviously McCann thought those years were abberations and the Braves needed to make sure of that before committing a ton of money to him.

[Russ2dollas]

I think there is something to being a Brave for life. McCann knows that will open up opportunities after he retires to make money. Plenty of stuff around ATL. Likely a retired number in ATL even if he's not a HOF.

But I also don't think he'll take 75 cents on the dollar. Their is a price for all of that legacy stuff, it's prob in the 90 cent on the dollar range.

[sturg33]

Let's be realistic here.

6 months ago, the Braves gave BJ Upton $15 million a year. They gave Dan Uggla $13 million a year. Brian McCann is twice the player BJ Upton is. If I'm him, and the Braves offered me less than they gave BJ Upton, I'd be really insulted. It doesn't matter how much money he has or can lead to a comfortable life. It's that the Atlanta Braves don't value McCann more than BJ Upton.

I'd be shocked if he stayed for less than $15 million, and won't begrudge him a bit if we lowball him and he leaves.

[Heyward]

Not sure Philly signs him.

As previously mentioned, they are very left handed heavy.

If you add Mac on top of Howard, Utley, Brown, and Revere, that's 5/8 of the lineup that's lefty, as well as maybe Achse who is lefty as well which makes it 3/4 of the lineup left handed. If they go with him at 3B.

They need some right handed power. Wouldn't surprise me if they brought back Pence.

I'd still guess an AL team signs him if he doesn't take less to stay.

Would say the Rangers.

[yeezus]

Why are so many just writing it off that Mac is gone?

I don't see mac like other FA's. I braves make a competitive offer he will be a brave IMO.

4 yrs in the 45-50 million dollar range.

I don't think that's very competitive.

[yeezus]

Maybe I am just a better person than the rest of the world.


LMAO better person by what standards? Yours?
There could be a lot of reasons he would want to play elsewhere. Money is one of them, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Your paragraph there makes you sound like a bad person, not Mac.

[gilesfan]

Let's be realistic here.

6 months ago, the Braves gave BJ Upton $15 million a year. They gave Dan Uggla $13 million a year. Brian McCann is twice the player BJ Upton is. If I'm him, and the Braves offered me less than they gave BJ Upton, I'd be really insulted. It doesn't matter how much money he has or can lead to a comfortable life. It's that the Atlanta Braves don't value McCann more than BJ Upton.

I'd be shocked if he stayed for less than $15 million, and won't begrudge him a bit if we lowball him and he leaves.

And that probably should have been in the thought process before signing BeeeJ. If Mac was offered that (or more) and declined, so be it. But, don't low ball Mccann when you are giving out absurd contracts to others.

[yeezus]

Man he really just said "maybe I'm just a better person." That's hilarious.

[gtcway]

Let's be realistic here.

6 months ago, the Braves gave BJ Upton $15 million a year. They gave Dan Uggla $13 million a year. Brian McCann is twice the player BJ Upton is. If I'm him, and the Braves offered me less than they gave BJ Upton, I'd be really insulted. It doesn't matter how much money he has or can lead to a comfortable life. It's that the Atlanta Braves don't value McCann more than BJ Upton.

I'd be shocked if he stayed for less than $15 million, and won't begrudge him a bit if we lowball him and he leaves.

Didn't think of it like that, but I absolutely agree.

[skidlee]

He isn't going to get many more years from an NL club and the money is just 3 mill per yr short

If you guys think he is going for the highest bidder so be it. I don't

[cajunrevenge]

LMAO better person by what standards? Yours?
There could be a lot of reasons he would want to play elsewhere. Money is one of them, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Your paragraph there makes you sound like a bad person, not Mac.

By the standard of not being consumed by greed. There is more to life than getting every dollar you can. At the point your making 13 million a year its not about providing for yourself or your family, its about greed. I am not trying to make McCann out to be a bad person, I think he does give the Braves a discount the only question is if it will be enough. I would view it a lot differently if he wasnt born locally and grew up a fan of the team. For instance I despise LeBron for leaving the Cavs and he left for less money.

[yeezus]

By the standard of not being consumed by greed. There is more to life than getting every dollar you can. At the point your making 13 million a year its not about providing for yourself or your family, its about greed. I am not trying to make McCann out to be a bad person, I think he does give the Braves a discount the only question is if it will be enough. I would view it a lot differently if he wasnt born locally and grew up a fan of the team. For instance I despise LeBron for leaving the Cavs and he left for less money.

Most players (who are people) pursue the money, or want to get as much value as possible. That's not being "consumed by greed." It's natural to want to get what you're worth. And like I said, he could go to an AL that gives him more money for 1.the money 2. a better career situation

[Carp]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tom_verducci/03/23/chipper.jones.japan/index.html

Chipper reworked his contract after the 2005 season saving the team 15 million over 3 years so they could be more competitive. His loyalty to the team is part of his legacy. He was getting paid 16 million a year 10 years ago so he wasnt getting chump change but the team had more money back then too. When someone talks about the draft and the #1 overall pick you almost always hear them say that you want to draft the next Chipper Jones with that pick. People will be saying that for the next 20+ years. Teams have made trades with the Braves specifically saying they wanted a player who had played with Chipper Jones. I just want to see Brian continue the legacy of Chipper Jones. I do think people are jumping to conclusions that he will leave for more money. The reason he wasnt extended was because he was having down years so it was hard to pin down what his value was. Obviously McCann thought those years were abberations and the Braves needed to make sure of that before committing a ton of money to him.


Chipper defered money to later yrs, agreeing to take less annually, but simply spread out more. He didn't give any money back. And the players union would never, ever allow a player to give money back.

[Sheffield10]

You despise LeBron because you are a hater.

The guy took less money to be part of a dynasty and shape basketball in a different way. Instead of only thinking for himself, and his spotlight.

That's ridiculous.

[Carp]

Let's be realistic here.

6 months ago, the Braves gave BJ Upton $15 million a year. They gave Dan Uggla $13 million a year. Brian McCann is twice the player BJ Upton is. If I'm him, and the Braves offered me less than they gave BJ Upton, I'd be really insulted. It doesn't matter how much money he has or can lead to a comfortable life. It's that the Atlanta Braves don't value McCann more than BJ Upton.

I'd be shocked if he stayed for less than $15 million, and won't begrudge him a bit if we lowball him and he leaves.

Basically this, though I don't agree with the BJ part. Different positions, ages, and market. But if we don't make a competitive offer and he walks, I don't see how anyone could fault him.

[Carp]

I don't think that's very competitive.

I think that's pretty close. About the same annual rate as his 2013 salary, but 4 guaranteed yrs.

[yeezus]

I think that's pretty close. About the same annual rate as his 2013 salary, but 4 guaranteed yrs.

4/50 is just over 12 mil a year. Someone will offer him at least 15 mil a year. Making 12 mil not competitive.

[zitothebrave]

4/50 is just over 12 mil a year. Someone will offer him at least 15 mil a year. Making 12 mil not competitive.

Molina got 5/75 I don't think Mac will.

[skidlee]

4/50 is just over 12 mil a year. Someone will offer him at least 15 mil a year. Making 12 mil not competitive.

I don't think its a bad as your making it out to be. The braves could make up the difference in a signing Bonus paid out of the life of the contract. I am not a worried about McCann leaving as I am the braves not being able to sign Freeman or Heyward long term.

The braves have the money to sign McCann and keep most of the young guys here.

[Heyward]

He isn't going to get many more years from an NL club and the money is just 3 mill per yr short

If you guys think he is going for the highest bidder so be it. I don't

Well, it depends.

I don't think he'd take 4 years, 45-50 million.

Maybe a lesser discount but not that low.

[Carp]

4/50 is just over 12 mil a year. Someone will offer him at least 15 mil a year. Making 12 mil not competitive.

Eh, may be. Will depend how the market shakes out. Napoli only got a 3 yr 36 million offer from the BoSox I believe, before he failed his physical. While Napoli is/was mainly a DH, his bat is very similar to Macs (which is really what you're paying for) and they will be roughly the same age as Napoli was last off-season. Now Mac is obviously a better hitter than Napoli and is having a much better yr up to this point,so I'd expect him to get more than that. It certainly possible Mac could get 15 million per from someone. But I think he'll get somewhere around 4/60 give or take 5 million no where he goes, So if we offered 4/50 or 4/55, I think that would be a decent offer.

[skidlee]

Well, it depends.

I don't think he'd take 4 years, 45-50 million.

Maybe a lesser discount but not that low.


Most he gets is an avg of 15 per year IMO

Its all about the years for the braves. They might could front load it but he isn't getting 60 million from the braves.

[yeezus]

Eh, may be. Will depend how the market shakes out. Napoli only got a 3 yr 36 million offer from the BoSox I believe, before he failed his physical. While Napoli is/was mainly a DH, his bat is very similar to Macs (which is really what you're paying for) and they will be roughly the same age as Napoli was last off-season. Now Mac is obviously a better hitter than Napoli and is having a much better yr up to this point,so I'd expect him to get more than that. It certainly possible Mac could get 15 million per from someone. But I think he'll get somewhere around 4/60 give or take 5 million no where he goes, So if we offered 4/50 or 4/55, I think that would be a decent offer.

What you said pretty much explains why Mac will get more. Napoli is a DH, Mac can legit play catcher which is much more valuable. Mac is also ~3 years younger.
I don't see what would stop the Rangers or Yankees from offering him 4/60 or 5/75 knowing they can slide him to DH in 3-4 years. We'll see. I certainly want to keep him. His bat is really great.

[yeezus]

Molina got 5/75 I don't think Mac will.

That was also 2012, and Molina is older (albeit a better and more in-shape catcher).
But Mac does have a better bat (despite Yadi's high avg this year) and I personally think an AL team will be dying to have him.

[zitothebrave]

That was also 2012, and Molina is older (albeit a better and more in-shape catcher).
But Mac does have a better bat (despite Yadi's high avg this year) and I personally think an AL team will be dying to have him.

Molina is also a once in a generation defender and almost universally regarded as the better player.

[yeezus]

Molina is also a once in a generation defender and almost universally regarded as the better player.

I don't disagree.

[Carp]

What you said pretty much explains why Mac will get more. Napoli is a DH, Mac can legit play catcher which is much more valuable. Mac is also ~3 years younger.
I don't see what would stop the Rangers or Yankees from offering him 4/60 or 5/75 knowing they can slide him to DH in 3-4 years. We'll see. I certainly want to keep him. His bat is really great.

Napoli was 31 when he signed his contract. Mac will be 29 and turning 30 before the ink dries on his new contract. Again, roughly the same age when they will have signed their respective contracts.

Question is, how much more do teams value Mac than Napoli? Is it 30 million more? I'm not so sure. Again, much of it will depend how the market shakes out this fall. It isn't an all that appealing group of free agents.

[Heyward]

Most he gets is an avg of 15 per year IMO

Its all about the years for the braves. They might could front load it but he isn't getting 60 million from the braves.

Then he's playing elsewhere.

It will cost minimum 5/75 to keep him which is what Yadi got.

[gilesfan]

Napoli was 31 when he signed his contract. Mac will be 29 and turning 30 before the ink dries on his new contract. Again, roughly the same age when they will have signed their respective contracts.

Question is, how much more do teams value Mac than Napoli? Is it 30 million more? I'm not so sure. Again, much of it will depend how the market shakes out this fall. It isn't an all that appealing group of free agents.

Well, you have to figure in that MCCann can actually catch.

[Tapate50]

I hate the fact that the word "hater" was used in this thread.