Please Put Uggla Out of Our Misery

[rico43]

To the attention of Frank Wren:

Frank:

I have always been your advocate. I don't wish to break down my reactions to each and every move, but I cannot remain silent any longer over the current inaction that may acually drive me bad.

Deal Dan Uggla. Dump his $13 million per year, his league-leading 146 strikeouts, his 33-year-old eyes that may or may no be going bad, With six weeks of games that will be relatively pressure free, bring up Tommy La Stella and let him slide into the job that should be his for the next 10 years.

Sure, Uggla has 21 homers and 50-odd RBIs are so, so misleading as to any productivity. How many RBIs would a .300-hitting disciplined hitter who walked more than he struck out do in the same at-bats?

Here are the inarguable facts to support my feeling that this is no slump; this is career downturn:

His 146 strikeouts have come in only 389 at-bats, a sharp increase in his already-lofty whiff totals. He had 168 last year in 140 more at-bats. His 72 hits translate to a .185 average, nearly 40 points lower than his career-low .220 of last season. He will need to walk 33 times the rest of the way to match last year's league-leading total of 94.

His sabermetrics stats agree with the downturn. Every year in his career, his WAR was a strong positive. Even last year, it was 2.9. This year, it's -0.5. His RAR (runs better than replacement) last year was plus 28. This year it is negative two (-2). His RAA this year is -17 after being +9 in 2012.

His defense also now fails to provide an argument for keeping him around. Uggla already has 12 errors, matching last year's total. But his 2013 numbers come in nearly 300 fewer innings and 250 fewer chances. He also has almost exactly 200 fewer assists at second than he did all last year.

He will be 34 before Opening Day next year.

There is no point putting up La Stella's Class A-AA stats up as any kind of true comparison -- except to show he is a totally different style of hitter than is currently in the Braves lineup, except possibly for McCann.

A series of injuries in 2013 has limited LaStella to 239 at-bats. He has 85 hits (13 more than Uggla!) and a .356 combined average. As dangerous as hitter as he's proven to be, he has 32 walks against 26 strikeouts -- but only three homers and 35 RBIs. In his entire minor league career, 782 at-bats, he has struck out only 79 times against 98 walks.

Defense? Again, with his 2013 innings limlited, the number are a little askew, he has five errors, well short of a career worst.

I don't care how Uggla moves or how much it costs; If the Braves have to pay more than half of his remaining $30 million or so salary in a deal, so be it. If he gets claimed on waivers, let him go and say thank yew. If we get someone else's problem contract in return, so much the better for them.

I write this mindful of two things. 1) That Dan Uggla has represented the Braves with class and professionalism every step of the way. It's just business. 2) The Braves have no chance in hell of moving BJ Upton.

Regards,

rico

PS: I'd settle for Pastornicky, too.

CC: Fredi Gonzalez
CC: Dan Uggla
CC: Tommy La Stella

[Diesel]

I definitely think that during September, we need to be letting Pastornicky (or any other options) get a lot of at bats and innings at 2nd base. It's one thing to allow Dan to work through his problems during the season and now with an insurmountable lead. It's completely different to allow him to throw away at bats during the post season.

If he is still in this horrid slump come October, there is no logic in playing him.

[nsacpi]

I think Pastornicky should start about half the games at second in September. Play whoever does best in September in the post-season.

[JohnAdcox]

As bad an idea as it is, I am almost ready to just roll the dice on La Stella.

[gilesfan]

I've defended Uggla some in the past. But, how do you defend putting a 33 year old terrible defensive player in the lineup everyday when he can't hit a lick?

[wheresmykayak]

Just imagine how good our lineup would be if Uggla and BJ were simply league average? Not even good, league average.

Some days I feel more comfortable with the pitcher up at bat than these guys. It's a tough spot, and I liked the Uggla trade when it happened, but I'm past wondering if he'll ever turn it around. He is who he is... and who he is, pretty much sucks.

[yeezus]

Just imagine how good our lineup would be if Uggla and BJ were simply league average? Not even good, league average.

Some days I feel more comfortable with the pitcher up at bat than these guys. It's a tough spot, and I liked the Uggla trade when it happened, but I'm past wondering if he'll ever turn it around. He is who he is... and who he is, pretty much sucks.

Well the thing about "average" is that there are just as many players below as there are above it.

[Dunit24]

Dan Uggla isnt going anywhere folks. Fredi loves him. Wren loves him. Not unless something is on the table that allows us to trade him, but thats HIGHLY doubtful. Maybe Cano goes elsewhere and the Yankees come a callin.

Anyway, im ready for Uggla to hit a key HR in the postseason that will make us look like fools.

[bravebonebook]

But...but...he represented the whole Braves team at Chipper's number retirement ceremony?!?

[BlackwaterPark]

Copy cat thread ;)

[nsacpi]

Copy cat thread ;)

You should have legal recourse on a matter like this.

[stpeteirish]

Dan Uggla isnt going anywhere folks. Fredi loves him. Wren loves him. Not unless something is on the table that allows us to trade him, but thats HIGHLY doubtful. Maybe Cano goes elsewhere and the Yankees come a callin.

Anyway, im ready for Uggla to hit a key HR in the postseason that will make us look like fools.

Fredi does, no doubt, but Wren? Not sure. Wren's all business, don't think he'll sit idly. And he's in charge of Fredi.

[stpeteirish]

I definitely think that during September, we need to be letting Pastornicky (or any other options) get a lot of at bats and innings at 2nd base. It's one thing to allow Dan to work through his problems during the season and now with an insurmountable lead. It's completely different to allow him to throw away at bats during the post season.

If he is still in this horrid slump come October, there is no logic in playing him.

Its no slump, he isn't any good any more.

[chopdrew]

I like Uggla a lot, and it sucks to see him playing like this. I think it's gone past a slump. He's in his own head, thinking about everything he does before he does it. I think a dl stint w daily trips to a sports psychologist would do him a world of good. He's gotta get some confidence.

[PawPawMaxwell]

What has happened to the magic cureall contract lens?

[gilesfan]

Its age and decline in bat speed. Happens to the best of them

[emk418]

As bad an idea as it is, I am almost ready to just roll the dice on La Stella.

He's a college guy that's raking in AA. It wouldn't be a stretch for him to jump AAA if the Braves think he's ready. We have two possible internal options over Uggla and we are making a big mistake if we don't give one of them a few starts a week. I'm not saying that La Stella is ready and I'm not saying he's not. I'll leave that up to the Braves. But he's the exact style of player that this team is missing.

Heyward OF
Upton OF
Freeman 1B
McCann C
CJ 3B
Upton OF
Simmons SS
La Stella 2B

That works for me and would give us may more productive AB's. I still eventually want to see Justin batting cleanup behind Freeman but that depends on someone stepping up as the 2 hitter. I think guys like Simmons, Pastornicky, La Stella all eventually could fit that mold.

[nsacpi]

For now it would make sense to drop Uggla to 8th. He takes a lot of pitches, so a couple fast baserunners like BJ/Schafer and Simmons would get some chances to steal. Having some fast guys on base ahead of him could also lead to his seeing more fastballs.

Also with all the walks Uggla draws, it naturally sets up some bunting opportunities for the pitchers.

[emk418]

For now it would make sense to drop Uggla to 8th. He takes a lot of pitches, so a couple fast baserunners like BJ/Schafer and Simmons would get some chances to steal. Having some fast guys on base ahead of him could also lead to his seeing more fastballs.

Also with all the walks Uggla draws, it naturally sets up some bunting opportunities for the pitchers.

Agreed. It's a pipe dream that Fredi even sits him for a game or two a week since he's got a man crush on one of the worst players in the game. At the very least, you just can't bat Uggla and BJ back to back. I just don't understand how it's August 13th and Fredi hasn't realized that.

[50PoundHead]

I would hate to put Frank Wren in charge of setting up a survival shelter if there were an impending crisis. Someone would say, "Frank, we need some beans" and he'd proceed to go out and buy a semi-truck's worth and there wouldn't be room for anything else on the food shelves. We had a need for a RHH with power, so he goes out and gets Uggla, which was a shrewd short-termmove. But then he signs him to an expensive extension. He did the same with Lowe when we needed starting pitching and with B.J. Upton when we needed a CF. In other words, while I decry Wren's long-term vision from time-to-time, I think he's done well with the improvisational short-term moves, but then he screws the pooch by doubling-down.

[nsacpi]

I would hate to put Frank Wren in charge of setting up a survival shelter if there were an impending crisis. Someone would say, "Frank, we need some beans" and he'd proceed to go out and buy a semi-truck's worth and there wouldn't be room for anything else on the food shelves. We had a need for a RHH with power, so he goes out and gets Uggla, which was a shrewd short-termmove. But then he signs him to an expensive extension. He did the same with Lowe when we needed starting pitching and with B.J. Upton when we needed a CF. In other words, while I decry Wren's long-term vision from time-to-time, I think he's done well with the improvisational short-term moves, but then he screws the pooch by doubling-down.

It's an organizational pattern. I remember the off-season Schuerholz got both Soriano and Gonzalez because we had had some bullpen problems the year before. When we identify a problem we tend to overdo it with the fix.

[50PoundHead]

It's an organizational pattern. I remember the off-season Schuerholz got both Soriano and Gonzalez because we had had some bullpen problems the year before. When we identify a problem we tend to overdo it with the fix.

I don't want to harp on the budget situation, but ever since Time/Warner and/or Liberty tightened the purse strings, we've behaved oddly as a franchise. Schuerholz was among the best in the business when he was sitting on Turner's fat wallet. He had a lot of margin for error, but he also knew what he wanted and made appropriate moves. Not every trade was a good one, but there were more good ones than bad ones. Then the "business of baseball stinks" era comes along for him and he gets all shades of unpredictable. Things like offering arbitration when it made no sense and not offering arbitration when it would have made sense. Goofy trades in which we overpaid. Wren has kind of continued down that road. Can't argue with the results for the most part, but we're neither fish nor fowl when it comes to determining the franchise. We act like we're right out of "Moneyball," and then go out and splurge.

[nsacpi]

I think Schuerholz had a period where he struggled to make the adjustment to the tighter purse strings. It is an ongoing process. We are a mid market and mid payroll team that happens to have a scouting and player development system that is the best in the game. Having that system means we cover most of our needs in house. It also means we can afford to splurge at a couple spots where we have some gaps. We just haven't done well when we've chosen to splurge--Lowe, Uggla and now BJ. I'm still hopeful BJ will turn things around. But even if he does, we did misjudge the market for his services some.

[stpeteirish]

I think Schuerholz had a period where he struggled to make the adjustment to the tighter purse strings. It is an ongoing process. We are a mid market and mid payroll team that happens to have a scouting and player development system that is the best in the game. Having that system means we cover most of our needs in house. It also means we can afford to splurge at a couple spots where we have some gaps. We just haven't done well when we've chosen to splurge--Lowe, Uggla and now BJ. I'm still hopeful BJ will turn things around. But even if he does, we did misjudge the market for his services some.

This is true,when we finally have some money to spend we spend it too quickly, all on one big deal. But we have so many good, low priced players that we can have a couple of overpaid turkeys and still have a good team.

[Gary82]

David O'Brien ‏@ajcbraves 3m
Uggla has been placed on the DL (eye surgery) braves announce. Pastornicky recalled

We got our wish. Uggla is gone. I do hope his eye surgery goes well.

[Gary82]

Mark Bowman ‏@mlbbowman 3m
The #Braves have placed Uggla on the DL to undergo LASIK surgery. The club has wanted him to undergo this procedure since Spring Training.

It's LASIK. If I were Wren, I would be incredibly pissed after all of this. Bowman states they wanted him to do this in Spring Training, and now he's getting it done during the season. What fascinates me is that he has a great talent for taking walks and hitting home runs (on a pace for around 30 this year), but he still needs eye surgery. I'm not saying he doesn't need it, because you can tell he flinches way too much at breaking balls.

[gilesfan]

If I was Wren, I would be dancing in the streets.

[Krovahn]

Just think... if Uggla comes back from Lasik and hits like he did with the Marlins, i.e. actually getting hits occasionally... that would be great.

[gilesfan]

Just think... if Uggla comes back from Lasik and hits like he did with the Marlins, i.e. actually getting hits occasionally... that would be great.


How many times have we heard if Dan would just or Dan got contacts or yada yada yada

[yeezus]

How many times have we heard if Dan would just or Dan got contacts or yada yada yada

Well he is supposedly going on an all-catfish and carrot diet, and I expect this to help a lot. He'll hit .300 in the playoffs, as long as he sticks with it.

[GovClintonTyree]

We got our wish. Uggla is gone. I do hope his eye surgery goes well.

If Dan Uggla hits .270 with power and decent defense, I LOVE Dan Uggla.

How much you wanna bet the dude hasn't been wearing the contacts the last couple weeks? It's like a schizophrenic who won't take her psych meds because she doesn't like the way they make her feel.

[BremanFan88]

If Dan Uggla hits .270 with power and decent defense, I LOVE Dan Uggla.

This makes me think people didn't exactly understand what we were getting with Uggla. He's only hit over .260 twice in his career. I expected a low average, solid OBP, good power and poorish defense. That's just typical Dan Uggla and there's a lot of value in that for a 2B. Unfortunately his low average turned into a really low average but maybe finally getting his eyes fixed can get him back closer to the .250 mark where he'd be fine again.

[Russ2dollas]

FAs just don't work most of the time. I know he was a trade and sign......but the Braves have to keep putting money into the farm system and signing their own, guys they know.

Uggla can be decent, at least I think so. We just don't need a right handed slugger. When we got him we were desperate.

[GovClintonTyree]

This makes me think people didn't exactly understand what we were getting with Uggla. He's only hit over .260 twice in his career. I expected a low average, solid OBP, good power and poorish defense. That's just typical Dan Uggla and there's a lot of value in that for a 2B. Unfortunately his low average turned into a really low average but maybe finally getting his eyes fixed can get him back closer to the .250 mark where he'd be fine again.

OK, .250. He hit .287 the year before we got him. That's not where his value lies. But he's got to make more contact than he's been making.

[GovClintonTyree]

FAs just don't work most of the time. I know he was a trade and sign......but the Braves have to keep putting money into the farm system and signing their own, guys they know.

Uggla can be decent, at least I think so. We just don't need a right handed slugger. When we got him we were desperate.

And, you know, he'd had five years of metronomic consistency.

Maybe there's a problem with the color of the Braves checks or something.

[GovClintonTyree]

And, you know, he'd had five years of metronomic consistency.

Maybe there's a problem with the color of the Braves checks or something.

Which reminds me of a Rickey Henderson story. He signed with the Yanks and got a $1m signing bonus, which pleased him greatly. But a month later, the check hadn't been cashed, and the accountants got concerned. They told the front office, who got concerned. They called Rickey to inquire. Had he heard anything about the check? "Yeah, y'all don't have nothin' to worry about," said Rickey. "I'm sittin' here in my den lookin' at it. it's in a frame on my wall."

[Gary82]

Looks like the Braves pretty much made him have the surgery.

[Dunit24]

Good for Uggla. Something aint right with him. Good eyes helped Mac and Freeman. Lets hope it does the same for Uggla.

[Dunit24]

OK, .250. He hit .287 the year before we got him. That's not where his value lies. But he's got to make more contact than he's been making.

Uggla situation is much like BJ Upton situation IMO. I didnt expect the .287 Uggla, much like I didnt expect the season BJ had last year...but I also didnt expect both being THIS bad.

[nsacpi]

It is remarkable how sensitive the front office is to the desires of the members of these boards.

[Dunit24]

How many times have we heard if Dan would just or Dan got contacts or yada yada yada

If youve had contacts before, or any sort of vision problem, you would understand the frustration. Its not as easy as oh Dan has contacts now, hes hitting well bc of them and hes not hitting well bc hes not wearing them. Some people just have to get used to them and its obvious Dan didnt like them. What was also obvious was that during that stretch where he seemed to see the ball well, he hit the ball well.

We'll see what happens. Im not writing him off just yet. If the procedure is done successfully and he comes back and is still looking lost out there, then the writing is obviously on the wall.

[emk418]

THANK YOU!!!!!! Seems like Wren knew Fredi would never bench him so he had to do something. Very excited to see Pastornicky get an extended look.

[stpeteirish]

done! check out the lineup

[MadduxFanII]

For a while after getting the contacts, Uggla was actually going fairly well. He was at .205/.321/.438 on July 26, and trending upward (however painfully slowly). That line, out of a sorta-competent second baseman, isn't going to kill you, though it doesn't make you feel warm and fuzzy about the contract. So, figure that he hits well enough over the course of the season to end up at, say, .220, then you've got a second baseman hitting .220/.340/.460ish, and hey, that's an .800 OPS. If you squint really, really hard and engage in some wishful thinking, that looks pretty acceptable.

And then...kablooey.

Uggla's basically just a microcosm of what you see from older players all the time: as they age and lose reaction time, they compensate by adding power and walks; the downside is you lose hits and strikeout more. Dan has taken it to extremes, but he's not unique. And that approach can only last for so long before pitchers stop screwing around based on your reputation and start pumping in strikes you can't touch.

50pound made the point earlier, but the big mistake was giving Uggla an extension. Excuse me for my self-aggrandizement, but I was saying at the time that the short-term nature of our commitment to Uggla was a feature, not a bug. There was too much risk involved in a player of Dan's sort to commit yourself to him long-term.

[BRule]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO PASTOR TIME..........OH WAIT..........

[gilesfan]

If youve had contacts before, or any sort of vision problem, you would understand the frustration. Its not as easy as oh Dan has contacts now, hes hitting well bc of them and hes not hitting well bc hes not wearing them. Some people just have to get used to them and its obvious Dan didnt like them. What was also obvious was that during that stretch where he seemed to see the ball well, he hit the ball well.

We'll see what happens. Im not writing him off just yet. If the procedure is done successfully and he comes back and is still looking lost out there, then the writing is obviously on the wall.

Ok, Uggla is finally solved. Contacts will cure his bat speed.

[gilesfan]

Why not Gattis at 2B? People on this board seem to think you can plug him anywhere.

[nsacpi]

Excuse me for my self-aggrandizement, but I was saying at the time that the short-term nature of our commitment to Uggla was a feature, not a bug. There was too much risk involved in a player of Dan's sort to commit yourself to him long-term.

Just out of curiosity, would you give McCann a four year deal this off-season?

[nsacpi]

With Pastornincky being called up, they should promote La Stella to AAA.

[PawPawMaxwell]

Why not Gattis at 2B? People on this board seem to think you can plug him anywhere.
Why not BJ at 2nd. Afterall, that is where he was drafted.

[MadduxFanII]

Just out of curiosity, would you give McCann a four year deal this off-season?

There are a lot of different factors to that question. How much money we're talking about, whether the difference between McCann and Gattis is worth the extra cost for a team on a fairly tight budget, etc.

But if we stipulate that we're discussing a fairly reasonable AAV (say, $15 million) and we're discussing this purely in an isolated, academic sense...yeah, I probably would, though just barely. McCann's a better defensive player at a more valuable position than Uggla, so he can lose some more value while still contributing to a roster. I tend to think McCann's a more intelligent, adjustable hitter than Uggla moving forward. And, sentimentally, McCann's a fan favorite and a homegrown Brave, not someone we're acquiring from Loria's Flea Market and Half-Price Emporium.

But you sign that contract understanding that the final year, at least, is going to be fairly unpleasant.

[GovClintonTyree]

It is remarkable how sensitive the front office is to the desires of the members of these boards.

I think we run the team.

[JohnAdcox]

Just out of curiosity, would you give McCann a four year deal this off-season?

Yes.

[GovClintonTyree]

Ok, Uggla is finally solved. Contacts will cure his bat speed.

It might. Bat speed is partly an illusion - if you recognize quickly, you're on it. Dan couldn't see. It was very obvious to me.

Lets see if he sucks less after LASIK.

[nsacpi]

There are a lot of different factors to that question. How much money we're talking about, whether the difference between McCann and Gattis is worth the extra cost for a team on a fairly tight budget, etc.

But if we stipulate that we're discussing a fairly reasonable AAV (say, $15 million) and we're discussing this purely in an isolated, academic sense...yeah, I probably would, though just barely. McCann's a better defensive player at a more valuable position than Uggla, so he can lose some more value while still contributing to a roster. I tend to think McCann's a more intelligent, adjustable hitter than Uggla moving forward. And, sentimentally, McCann's a fan favorite and a homegrown Brave, not someone we're acquiring from Loria's Flea Market and Half-Price Emporium.

But you sign that contract understanding that the final year, at least, is going to be fairly unpleasant.

Yeah. I pretty much agree. Especially the part about Mac being a more adaptable hitter. Uggla is the latest in the line of guys who had some success but would have had a lot more if they could have varied their approach to hitting: Andruw, Francoeur, Ron Gant. By now we should know better with those types of hitters.

[50PoundHead]

I think Schuerholz had a period where he struggled to make the adjustment to the tighter purse strings. It is an ongoing process. We are a mid market and mid payroll team that happens to have a scouting and player development system that is the best in the game. Having that system means we cover most of our needs in house. It also means we can afford to splurge at a couple spots where we have some gaps. We just haven't done well when we've chosen to splurge--Lowe, Uggla and now BJ. I'm still hopeful BJ will turn things around. But even if he does, we did misjudge the market for his services some.

Well said.

[holden]

15-day DL for LASIK? I mean, you can be up and running pretty much the day after surgery.

[mfree80]

15-day DL for LASIK? I mean, you can be up and running pretty much the day after surgery.

Gives them an opportunity to bring up Pastor. If they didn't DL him they would be short handed.

[Enscheff]

Why not Gattis at 2B? People on this board seem to think you can plug him anywhere.

His arm is too good for 2B. Freeman may not survive.

[emk418]

This really put me in a good mood......having Uggla out of the lineup for an extended period of time. (As long as there are no complications with the procedure)

[Runnin]

Congrats rico. You did it!

[nsacpi]

Two hard hit balls to the opposite field by Pastornicky in his first two at bats (one for a hit and one caught by the first baseman). How nice that is to see.

[striker42]

Pastornicky will never come close to Uggla's power but he's gonna be far more consistent and I think that will help the lineup more. There have been too many situations like the one last night where Uggla couldn't do the little things like getting a guy in from third with less than two outs. I think Pastornicky will be far better at that which will make the bottom of the lineup less feast or famine.

I hope eye surgery has dramatic results for Uggla but I'm not holding my breath. I think the cause of his struggles is more declining bat speed than declining eyesight. Some guys just go quick (see Dale Murphy).

[rico43]

It is remarkable how sensitive the front office is to the desires of the members of these boards.

I was just thinking the same thing.

[DjGrizz]

Just throwing this out there but I'm pretty sure Rico is Fredi G

[The Chosen One]

Just throwing this out there but I'm pretty sure Rico is Fredi G

:YDS:

[Dunit24]

Ok, Uggla is finally solved. Contacts will cure his bat speed.

Not quite. But it will improve his ability to see the ball, which is pretty important.

[CJC]

I'm gonna be "that guy" but...

I assume there is no way to edit thread titles with typos?