Future SS

[msstate7]

Swanson or Albies? Which one projects best defensively?

[emk418]

Has to be Swanson. Bigger, stronger arm. Albies 100% can handle SS long term but to me it's an easy answer.

This is going to be one exciting DP combo for years.

[UNCBlue012]

lI would go with Swanson as well. I mean, they can swap if needed, so it's not a biggie, but both can be a legit top of the lineup bats. 1-2 in the lineup and a strong 1-2 punch of the middle. #ImInLove

[Russ2dollas]

Jace Peterson. That's my pick for nxt yr be we should trade aybar

Long term I think we just let it play out. Swanson likely gets to the show faster so he probably goes to ss first.

I know everyone loves Riley but he's super young and it's a really sss at a low level. Plenty of ppl rake at low levels and stall at aaa or aa. All that to say....any chance of Swanson at 3b?

[Julio3000]

I'd like to see how Swanson handles short before assuming he'll be the guy. Ozzie has a surprising arm for his size.

[50PoundHead]

Jace Peterson. That's my pick for nxt yr be we should trade aybar

Long term I think we just let it play out. Swanson likely gets to the show faster so he probably goes to ss first.

I know everyone loves Riley but he's super young and it's a really sss at a low level. Plenty of ppl rake at low levels and stall at aaa or aa. All that to say....any chance of Swanson at 3b?

I'm not ready to pencil Riley in either, although the early returns look solid. From what I know of Swanson (not much), he adds a lot. I don't know if his power projects enough to be an offensive plus at 3B. If he were to play there, the Braves would have to have plus offense at a position that usually concentrates on defense. I would guess that Swanson's either at SS or 2B (with Albies likely at the other) and let's not forget Rio Ruiz as a possible 3B to bridge to Riley.

[Dalyn]

With his strong arm, would Swanson be a better future candidate for 3b?

[UNCBlue012]

With his strong arm, would Swanson be a better future candidate for 3b?

No, no. We'll have our 47 year old Cuban stud at that point. lol

[Dalyn]

No, no. We'll have our 47 year old Cuban stud at that point. lol

Yes. Can't forget about Olive. Speaking of which...a nasty Olive does fit in well with the Mukaki rebuild.

[Russ2dollas]

I'm not ready to pencil Riley in either, although the early returns look solid. From what I know of Swanson (not much), he adds a lot. I don't know if his power projects enough to be an offensive plus at 3B. If he were to play there, the Braves would have to have plus offense at a position that usually concentrates on defense. I would guess that Swanson's either at SS or 2B (with Albies likely at the other) and let's not forget Rio Ruiz as a possible 3B to bridge to Riley.

Fair point. Rio Ruiz stunk but he was a good prospect before last yr.

If you have mallex Swanson albies and inciarte then you are going to need some extra pop from Olivera ff and other spots.

Or you go super saber and go all in on d. Pray pitchers live up to hype . And try to win like mets 3-1. Make a signing or trade like they did to get a big bopper and hide him somewhere on d.

[Coach_Chris]

3B - Kevin Maitan
SS - Swanson
2B - Albies
1B - Freeman (if he makes it that long)
C - ?
LF - ?
CF - Smith
RF - ?

[emk418]

Jace Peterson. That's my pick for nxt yr be we should trade aybar

Long term I think we just let it play out. Swanson likely gets to the show faster so he probably goes to ss first.

I know everyone loves Riley but he's super young and it's a really sss at a low level. Plenty of ppl rake at low levels and stall at aaa or aa. All that to say....any chance of Swanson at 3b?

No I can't see Swanson moving to 3B. Pretty much all reports say he will be a strong defensive SS. He's an up the middle guy. Maybe he moves to 2B if it's determined Albies is stronger defensively but can't see him moving to 3B.

Just know that SS and 2B are golden for us for a VERY long time with Swanson and Albies. The only movement from those guys will be between SS and 2B

[Horsehide Harry]

I think Swanson ends up at 2B or 3B. He was a 2B guy in college before shifting over to short.

Albies probably begins next year at high A as will Swanson so we will probably know pretty quickly. If everything goes to plan (ha), it probably will be Riley at low A at 3B, moving to high A by mid season. Swanson and Albies at High A, with Swanson moving to AA by midseason. Ruiz at AA for the year. Maitan signs in June and begins at the GCL and is 2-3 years behind.

I also think you could see Davidson move to 1B full time.

I wonder if the Brewers would do a CB and Jenkins trade for Garza and OF Phillips with the Braves taking all of Garza's money? Teheran to Pitt for Meadows or Cleveland for Frazier?

[Enscheff]

Has to be Swanson. Bigger, stronger arm. Albies 100% can handle SS long term but to me it's an easy answer.

This is going to be one exciting DP combo for years.

From what I've read Albies has the better arm (60 to 55) and is faster (70 to 60). If anything I would imagine Swanson is the SS starting in 2017, and by the time Albies comes up he will have lost a bit of range and will slide over to 2B.

[bravesfanforlife88]

From what I've read Albies has the better arm (60 to 55) and is faster (70 to 60). If anything I would imagine Swanson is the SS starting in 2017, and by the time Albies comes up he will have lost a bit of range and will slide over to 2B.

weren't they saying that Albies was going to be up by 2017...? if so, he could be up first. I know Swanson is a really good prospect, but he was just drafted 6 months ago. I'd rather not rush him to the show. We should let him develop properly

[Enscheff]

weren't they saying that Albies was going to be up by 2017...? if so, he could be up first. I know Swanson is a really good prospect, but he was just drafted 6 months ago. I'd rather not rush him to the show. We should let him develop properly

"Albies 2017" was probably just an attempt to calm the fanbase after Simmons was traded. It's possible, but he just completed his 18 year old season at the low A level. He will obviously start his age 19 season at high A, and might earn a promotion to AA at some point that year. If he tears it up in AA he could be ready sometime in 2017 as a 20 year old, but that is really pushing it.

I think the better option will be to offer Aybar a QO, and if he rejects it go find a stopgap FA SS for 1-2 years.

Just realized that doesn't answer anything about Swanson/Albies at SS, sorry!

[smootness]

From what I've read Albies has the better arm (60 to 55) and is faster (70 to 60). If anything I would imagine Swanson is the SS starting in 2017, and by the time Albies comes up he will have lost a bit of range and will slide over to 2B.

After seeing Albies in person, I just disagree with that rating of his arm. I think his arm is adequate for a SS, but I think it would diminish some of his defensive value there. I think he is a perfect fit at 2B with Swanson at SS.

You think Swanson will have lost range in about a year when he's 24 or so?

[smootness]

I think Albies absolutely could be ready by some point in 2017. He is extremely advanced for his age, and he's more of a really high floor guy than a really high ceiling guy (not a knock on him at all, I love him), so I could see him getting to AA pretty easily this year with a strong chance of coming to Atlanta by midseason 2017.

And Swanson may be ready to start the year in Atlanta in 2017. We may wait to call him up, but I think he at least gets to AA this year, and if he has success there, he'll basically be ready.

[smootness]

weren't they saying that Albies was going to be up by 2017...? if so, he could be up first. I know Swanson is a really good prospect, but he was just drafted 6 months ago. I'd rather not rush him to the show. We should let him develop properly

But he's a college guy and not considered raw at all. He already has advanced plate discipline, and we won't be waiting for his power to develop, so he could absolutely fly through the system. He'll be up before Albies.

I think Swanson will start the year in A+ with the plan to move him up in a month or so if he's playing well. And once he's in AA, it's all on how he plays. I definitely don't think we would call him up in 2016, but a full year basically at AA would get him ready.

[Enscheff]

After seeing Albies in person, I just disagree with that rating of his arm. I think his arm is adequate for a SS, but I think it would diminish some of his defensive value there. I think he is a perfect fit at 2B with Swanson at SS.

You think Swanson will have lost range in about a year when he's 24 or so?

I have no idea, I'm not a scout. I haven't seen either in person, and I'm not sure it would matter if I did see them both since I don't know anything about grading professional players. I can't imagine Swanson has more range than Albies right now just based on their speed grades, so I don't see how a 24 year old Swanson will have better range than a 20 years old Albies.

As far as throwing arm, I can only go by the ratings I see on the internet, and that gives a 60-55 edge to Albies.

I have no idea who was playing SS at Vandy that forced Swanson to 2B, but either he was an absolute stud defender, or Swanson was merely adequate at SS when he was older than Albies is right now.

[Horsehide Harry]

"Albies 2017" was probably just an attempt to calm the fanbase after Simmons was traded. It's possible, but he just completed his 18 year old season at the low A level. He will obviously start his age 19 season at high A, and might earn a promotion to AA at some point that year. If he tears it up in AA he could be ready sometime in 2017 as a 20 year old, but that is really pushing it.

I think the better option will be to offer Aybar a QO, and if he rejects it go find a stopgap FA SS for 1-2 years.

Just realized that doesn't answer anything about Swanson/Albies at SS, sorry!

No to the Aybar QO. Next year a QO will probably be worth in excess of $16M. You could get 2-3 Aybars for that....

[Enscheff]

No to the Aybar QO. Next year a QO will probably be worth in excess of $16M. You could get 2-3 Aybars for that....

Um, Aybar has been a consistent 2-4 WAR player since 2008. He has never been below average offensively or defensively, and he plays SS. He will be 32 next year. If he puts up his usual 2-3 WAR next year and hits the FA market he would easily get a contract right around the 4/56 deal Zobrist just signed.

Giving Aybar a QO is pretty much a no-brainer if he produces anywhere near the level he should in 2016. If he accepts (highly unlikely) he would be a perfect stopgap at SS for 1/16 until Swanson or Albies are ready to take over long term.

[msstate7]

I have no idea, I'm not a scout. I haven't seen either in person, and I'm not sure it would matter if I did see them both since I don't know anything about grading professional players. I can't imagine Swanson has more range than Albies right now just based on their speed grades, so I don't see how a 24 year old Swanson will have better range than a 20 years old Albies.

As far as throwing arm, I can only go by the ratings I see on the internet, and that gives a 60-55 edge to Albies.

I have no idea who was playing SS at Vandy that forced Swanson to 2B, but either he was an absolute stud defender, or Swanson was merely adequate at SS when he was older than Albies is right now.

I have no idea who has more range, but Simmons doesn't have good speed... Yet the range is there

[bravesfanMatt]

I have no idea who has more range, but Simmons doesn't have good speed... Yet the range is there

speed can help you with Range.. but usually foot work and quickness are key with range.. Also, Simmons could take less direct angles and make up for it with his arm...that can't be taught..

[Enscheff]

I have no idea who has more range, but Simmons doesn't have good speed... Yet the range is there

Yeah who knows. What we DO know is they will be the SS/2B tandem for the foreseeable future.

[smootness]

I mean, sure, none of us are experts. But Albies has a current 50 grade in the field compared to Swanson's 55. I love what I've seen of Albies, and I think in terms of range and hands he can definitely play SS. But just based on my own observations, I think Swanson is the more likely to stick at SS with Albies at 2B. I think that would give us the best overall value.

I do not at all think Swanson should move to 3B...that would diminish the value he can bring defensively and would also take away some of the value of his bat. I think Swanson and Albies need to stay up the middle for as long as possible.

[Horsehide Harry]

Um, Aybar has been a consistent 2-4 WAR player since 2008. He has never been below average offensively or defensively, and he plays SS. He will be 32 next year. If he puts up his usual 2-3 WAR next year and hits the FA market he would easily get a contract right around the 4/56 deal Zobrist just signed.

Giving Aybar a QO is pretty much a no-brainer if he produces anywhere near the level he should in 2016. If he accepts (highly unlikely) he would be a perfect stopgap at SS for 1/16 until Swanson or Albies are ready to take over long term.

I hope you are right but I don't see it. Not that he is terrible. I just wouldn't risk getting saddled with the QO unless there was extra money just lying around....

[smootness]

I hope you are right but I don't see it. Not that he is terrible. I just wouldn't risk getting saddled with the QO unless there was extra money just lying around....

To me, it just depends on whether or not Swanson is ready. If he is, you only give the QO to Aybar if you know for sure he won't take it. If Swanson is not ready, you give the QO and even if he takes it, you're fine.

[msstate7]

Yeah who knows. What we DO know is they will be the SS/2B tandem for the foreseeable future.

Absolutely

[thewupk]

To me, it just depends on whether or not Swanson is ready. If he is, you only give the QO to Aybar if you know for sure he won't take it. If Swanson is not ready, you give the QO and even if he takes it, you're fine.

Also even if Swanson is ready it would likely be smart to hold him back atleast a month for service time purposes. Having Aybar again in 2017 and then trading him at the deadline and promoting Swanson wouldn't be the worst thing.

[smootness]

Also even if Swanson is ready it would likely be smart to hold him back atleast a month for service time purposes. Having Aybar again in 2016 and then trading him at the deadline and promoting Swanson wouldn't be the worst thing.

No, but your timing may not work right there. Maybe you could move Aybar to 2B if necessary when calling Swanson up?

[thewupk]

No, but your timing may not work right there. Maybe you could move Aybar to 2B if necessary when calling Swanson up?

Sure. And even if you hold Swanson back till the deadline you would still save on him being a super 2. It just gives the Braves more options. If Aybar has a 2-3 WAR sason I see no way he accepts a QO. If it's 1.5-2 then it might get iffy. But again I can think of a lot worse options than Aybar for 1 year at that price.

[smootness]

Sure. And even if you hold Swanson back till the deadline you would still save on him being a super 2. It just gives the Braves more options. If Aybar has a 2-3 WAR sason I see no way he accepts a QO. If it's 1.5-2 then it might get iffy. But again I can think of a lot worse options than Aybar for 1 year at that price.

Yeah, again, to me it just depends on whether or not we think Aybar will accept the QO, or whether there's even a chance he will. If Swanson is basically ready and you're not sure Aybar won't accept a QO, you don't give it to him. If you are sure he won't accept it, or if Swanson needs at least another couple months in the minors, you offer him the QO.

[Deester11]

I mean, sure, none of us are experts. But Albies has a current 50 grade in the field compared to Swanson's 55. I love what I've seen of Albies, and I think in terms of range and hands he can definitely play SS. But just based on my own observations, I think Swanson is the more likely to stick at SS with Albies at 2B. I think that would give us the best overall value.

I do not at all think Swanson should move to 3B...that would diminish the value he can bring defensively and would also take away some of the value of his bat. I think Swanson and Albies need to stay up the middle for as long as possible.
Smoot, I know you've seen him, but I saw about 20 or so games of Albies....he's got great range and makes all the throws. Routinely behind 2b he'll make the play and he has no where near Simmons arm, but it's strong enough. I haven't seen Dansby except 1/10th of a game and I didn't know who he was. In any case, I think you leave them both alone unless you accelerate the learning for Albies. I think 2B is right up his ally although I love him as a SS.

[Julio3000]

I'm with Deester here. Ozzie's arm is impressive, and he is a sharp, heady defender. I do have a hard time believing that Swanson is better than him at this point.

[smootness]

Smoot, I know you've seen him, but I saw about 20 or so games of Albies....he's got great range and makes all the throws. Routinely behind 2b he'll make the play and he has no where near Simmons arm, but it's strong enough. I haven't seen Dansby except 1/10th of a game and I didn't know who he was. In any case, I think you leave them both alone unless you accelerate the learning for Albies. I think 2B is right up his ally although I love him as a SS.

This is fair. I only saw him in one game, but I was noticeably underwhelmed with his arm. It honestly made me question if he was capable of sticking at SS. But who knows, maybe I was influenced by Simmons or maybe I just didn't see him let loose.

But the video of Swanson to me looks like a clearly stronger arm than what I saw from Albies.

[Deester11]

This is fair. I only saw him in one game, but I was noticeably underwhelmed with his arm. It honestly made me question if he was capable of sticking at SS. But who knows, maybe I was influenced by Simmons or maybe I just didn't see him let loose.

But the video of Swanson to me looks like a clearly stronger arm than what I saw from Albies. Well as much as I saw him, I tried so hard not to compare him throwing with Simmons. But when you're spoiled by the best...it's what you do (Geico?). I will say that of that Rome team, the buzz was always about Albies and not so much about Davidson. I enjoyed Braxton's dad a lot though so I'll have to partner up with all the Rome prospects parents again.

Anywho, Albies is special. When I walked into the stadium opening day and saw him, I was like, there is no way this guy is that highly touted. After the first game, I was hooked. The one thing we all agree on is that those two will anchor the middle for a long time.

[smootness]

Absolutely. I certainly don't mean to diminish Albies in any way. I had the same feeling - I watched him one time and instantly knew I was watching a future stud. Love love love his hitting ability.

[Enscheff]

Considering both guys are probably going to start the year in high A, they will have to make that decision almost immediately.

[smootness]

Considering both guys are probably going to start the year in high A, they will have to make that decision almost immediately.

Right. I wonder if they may switch them around some just to see which arrangement works best. That, or they already know what they're doing.

[Enscheff]

Right. I wonder if they may switch them around some just to see which arrangement works best. That, or they already know what they're doing.

A pretty good article on talking chop about this. I agree they should probably do some sort of SS/2B rotation to evaluate both guys AND to keep both players' prospect value as high as possible.

http://www.talkingchop.com/2015/12/15/10144788/comparing-ozhaino-albies-and-dansby-swanson-braves

[Chico]

Just for shiats and giggles.........What if we trade Albies?

[Julio3000]

A pretty good article on talking chop about this. I agree they should probably do some sort of SS/2B rotation to evaluate both guys AND to keep both players' prospect value as high as possible.

http://www.talkingchop.com/2015/12/15/10144788/comparing-ozhaino-albies-and-dansby-swanson-braves

Instincts

The first thing I notice when I watch Ozhaino Albies play is his positioning and reactions. He seems to know where balls are going and reacts to them with as quick a first step as anyone I've seen. His instincts in the field are off the charts good, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the minor leagues who is a more natural defender than Albies. Swanson as well has natural abilities. He positions himself to make all the plays he needs to make and does a good job of getting jumps on balls. Swanson has great instincts, but it's just hard to find someone who plays like Albies.

This was exactly my observation of Albies. There were three highly-regarded defensive SS in the Southern League last year (Guerra, Jorge Mateo, and Albies) and Ozzie was the best of the three at this...he always seemed to get a jump on the ball that allowed him to be in a good position to throw. He has great spatial awareness and seems to find the right line. This will serve him well at 2B, for sure, but it's reason enough to make SS an open competition.

[smootness]

Just for shiats and giggles.........What if we trade Albies?

That would be real dumb.

[smootness]

Instincts

The first thing I notice when I watch Ozhaino Albies play is his positioning and reactions. He seems to know where balls are going and reacts to them with as quick a first step as anyone I've seen. His instincts in the field are off the charts good, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the minor leagues who is a more natural defender than Albies. Swanson as well has natural abilities. He positions himself to make all the plays he needs to make and does a good job of getting jumps on balls. Swanson has great instincts, but it's just hard to find someone who plays like Albies.

This was exactly my observation of Albies. There were three highly-regarded defensive SS in the Southern League last year (Guerra, Jorge Mateo, and Albies) and Ozzie was the best of the three at this...he always seemed to get a jump on the ball that allowed him to be in a good position to throw. He has great spatial awareness and seems to find the right line. This will serve him well at 2B, for sure, but it's reason enough to make SS an open competition.

It will come down to the arm, IMO. His instincts will play just as well at 2B, as you said, and with Freeman's limited range at 1B, you could argue that, depending on who we have at 3B, his range is actually more valuable to us at 2B. And if the range and instincts are pretty comparable and one has a clearly better arm, that's the guy who should be at SS.

I don't really know what's going to happen and who is better at what, just making some guesses.

[Chico]

That would be real dumb.

Not advocating it, but wouldn't be surprised either.

[smootness]

Not advocating it, but wouldn't be surprised either.

I would be beyond shocked.

[Russ2dollas]

I would be beyond shocked.

Agree. He should be available for the right price.......but that price should be huge. I get that there's little HR power there. But it seems like most ppl think he'll hit his fair share of doubles.

Swanson will be the SS IMO. And Swanson and Albies project to be plus up the middle defense beyond 2020 and likely plus hitting.

I wouldn't move Albies to 2B until I was 100% sure that is where he is going to go. Don't make the same mistake they made with Peraza moving him too early.

[emk418]

Just for shiats and giggles.........What if we trade Albies?

hell no. He's the next Altuve. Just put him at 2B and leave him alone. We'll have one of the best DP combos in the game in the not too distant future

[smootness]

Trading Albies does nothing to help us and doesn't make any sense given what we're trying to accomplish. I realize no one is legitimately speculating, but it's not even worth discussing.

I don't think we moved Peraza to 2B too early. We traded him to LA as a SS, his value wasn't diminished. He just didn't have all that much value, and LA has a good FO. That trade wasn't a good one, but moving Peraza to 2B had nothing to do with it.

[Russ2dollas]

Trading Albies does nothing to help us and doesn't make any sense given what we're trying to accomplish. I realize no one is legitimately speculating, but it's not even worth discussing.

I don't think we moved Peraza to 2B too early. We traded him to LA as a SS, his value wasn't diminished. He just didn't have all that much value, and LA has a good FO. That trade wasn't a good one, but moving Peraza to 2B had nothing to do with it.

That seems contrary to most of the reports I've read. But ok, you seem very sure your opinion is fact.

[Chico]

Trading Albies does nothing to help us and doesn't make any sense given what we're trying to accomplish. I realize no one is legitimately speculating, but it's not even worth discussing.

I don't think we moved Peraza to 2B too early. We traded him to LA as a SS, his value wasn't diminished. He just didn't have all that much value, and LA has a good FO. That trade wasn't a good one, but moving Peraza to 2B had nothing to do with it.

Easy killer! People can speculate and discuss whatever they want. It's the whole reason for a message board. I was really just bringing it up out of boredom, since nobody is targeting an 18 year old kid in the offseason, and we're not going after a big name since we're not going to be competitive.

We didn't trade Peraza as a SS though. He played mostly 2B with as many games at OF as he did SS. Infield prospect or utility guy are closer than SS

[smootness]

That seems contrary to most of the reports I've read. But ok, you seem very sure your opinion is fact.

That sounded more definite than I meant it. It's certainly just my opinion, but I have to believe we still pushed Peraza as a SS in the deal...and if we didn't, then my guess is that most teams saw Peraza as a 2B already anyway. I just don't think moving Peraza around because we had Simmons at SS did much to reduce his value.

[smootness]

Easy killer! People can speculate and discuss whatever they want. It's the whole reason for a message board. I was really just bringing it up out of boredom, since nobody is targeting an 18 year old kid in the offseason, and we're not going after a big name since we're not going to be competitive.

We didn't trade Peraza as a SS though. He played mostly 2B with as many games at OF as he did SS. Infield prospect or utility guy are closer than SS

Sure, people can say and think whatever they want. I never suggested otherwise. I said it's not worth discussing because it's not going to happen and shouldn't.

[Deester11]

If you've not seen Albies, you can't appreciate his reaction and speed. He's a good and can be great at SS. IMHO though, he's going to move to 2B and I think he will excel. That report on TC was spot on.

[cajunrevenge]

I would bet someone elses money that Albies will be the 2B when/if Swanson is also in the majors.

[ball4life32]

3B - Kevin Maitan
SS - Swanson
2B - Albies
1B - Freeman (if he makes it that long)
C - ?
LF - ?
CF - Smith
RF - ?

3B - Austin Riley
SS- Swanson
2B - Albies
1B - Freeman (?)
C - Abraham Guiterrez
LF - ?
CF - Rutherford (?)
RF - Kevin Maitan

[keithlaw]

Keep Swanson at SS and move Albies to 2B. I don't want to have a second baseman with Dan in his name ever again.