C. Bethancourt to SD for RHP Kelly, and '14 International Signee R. Rodriguez (C)

[CrimsonCowboy]

674800029069148160

[UNCBlue012]

GOOD. Package for shields and let's do this.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Just saw that. And I'm sure he will be traded pretty soon I wouldn't count out the rangers

[msstate7]

Renfroe for bethancourt... Make it happen









Haha

[bravesfanMatt]

Renfroe for bethancourt... Make it happen


Haha

greatest GM evaaarrr!!!!!

[Oklahomabrave]

Can we swap him for Hedges? If both teams have given up, I'd take Hedges in a heartbeat.

[Russ2dollas]

Pads need a ss too.

CB aybar and Jenkins for renfroe? I'd prefer to not lose Jenkins but don't think a lower guy does it

[The Chosen One]

Coppy will acquire Phil Nevin and Khalil Greene and flip them later on for more prospects. COPPY THAT.

[blueagleace1]

Just saw that. And I'm sure he will be traded pretty soon I wouldn't count out the rangers

I also thought about the Rangers. With the recent reports of them wanting to re-sign Beltre do you think we could do a Teheran, CB, Ruiz and Eliis for Gallo?

[Deester11]

I also thought about the Rangers. With the recent reports of them wanting to re-sign Beltre do you think we could do a Teheran, CB, Ruiz and Eliis for Gallo?
Yuck! No.

[zbhargrove]

I also thought about the Rangers. With the recent reports of them wanting to re-sign Beltre do you think we could do a Teheran, CB, Ruiz and Eliis for Gallo?

Gallo has a huge hole in his swing that I never see being fixed.

[Runnin]

Braves fans after the Miller trade:

http://s-media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/68/5b/46/685b4607a7b01e56baadc9dc4a213f9e.jpg

[Chico]

We do match up with the Rangers if we decide to do something. They need a CF, C, and SP. They have relievers and OF prospects to trade. There's also the chance Profar is available.

[bravesfanforlife88]

I don't see a CB trade being part of a big package in a major deal....maybe for a player that had similar type hype coming up that hasn't panned out.

[bravesfanforlife88]

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Joel ShermanVerified account
‏@Joelsherman1
#Braves and #Padres still working on a deal to send C Christian Betancourt to SD

[UNCBlue012]

Let's make a great deal!

[Enscheff]

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Joel ShermanVerified account
‏@Joelsherman1
#Braves and #Padres still working on a deal to send C Christian Betancourt to SD

Can't be for more than a BP prospect if it's just CB. Maybe a salary dump coming to the Braves in addition to a better prospect. Maybe CB plus pitching for a position player.

[Knucksie]

Basically, this thread is a Joel Sherman Twitter feed. Ugh, wait until something actually happens, instead of just of reacting to a one-source rumor.

[bravesfanMatt]

Basically, this thread is a Joel Sherman Twitter feed. Ugh, wait until something actually happens, instead of just of reacting to a one-source rumor.

no.. no I won't.. I need some rumored names as well so I can properly calibrate my outrage level prior to anything final.. damnit..

[Enscheff]

BJ plus Renfroe for CB! The Braves finally get the lefty mashing 4th OFer to platoon with Inciarte!

[Oklahomabrave]

Well it mainly is a rumor that spikes my interest due to the fact the Padres have Hedges AND Norris. They also really need a shortstop badly. They have been rumored to want Inciarte too. So it's a rumor with potential.

[chop2chip]

Basically, this thread is a Joel Sherman Twitter feed. Ugh, wait until something actually happens, instead of just of reacting to a one-source rumor.

Jayson Stark was the first to report that the Padres were pushing hard for Bethancourt. So, I think it's safe to step down from the soap box now.

[striker42]

Padres close to acquiring him per Rosenthal

[UNCBlue012]

Source: #Padres close to acquiring Bethancourt from #Braves. Working through final details. @Joelsherman1 on this.

[bravesfanMatt]

Source: #Padres close to acquiring Bethancourt from #Braves. Working through final details. @Joelsherman1 on this.


Blah.. this is just rumor.. please let me know something when it is real.
<sarcasm>

[bravesfanforlife88]

Blah.. this is just rumor.. please let me know something when it is real.
<sarcasm>

that wont happen, this is a sherman,rosenthal,and buster twitter thread

[zbhargrove]

Basically, this thread is a Joel Sherman Twitter feed. Ugh, wait until something actually happens, instead of just of reacting to a one-source rumor.

Well Rosenthal says it's almost a done deal also...
So...

[Enscheff]

Shields plus $15M for CB! Make it happen!

[dak]

Need 40-man space, so almost certain to be a low-minors prospect.

[striker42]

I predict a Zech Lemond or Justin Hancock type. A pitching prospect not on the 40 man roster who has decent enough stuff to pitch out of the pen if they can't be a starter.

[mqt]

What about Rymer Liriano? His star has faded significantly.

[Tapate50]

Don't get disappointed

[mqt]

Don't get disappointed

Yeah, when an organization decides they'd rather roll with AJP and Flowers instead of continuing on with a player, you probably shouldn't expect much in a trade of that player.

[bravesfanMatt]

Yeah, when an organization decides they'd rather roll with AJP and Flowers instead of continuing on with a player, you probably shouldn't expect much in a trade of that player.

I think CB/Maybin/jordan paroubeck
for
BJ/Kimbrel/Jup.. we will have to send some cash too..

[rico43]

My guess is a deal involving Michael Gettys, who was their No. 7 prospect before they added Guerra, Margot and Allen in the Kimbrel deal.

Gettys is a R-R outfielder from Gainesville, who did a Heyward (passing up football to concentrate on BB in high school). Seems a good fit.

Of course, if the Padres are willing to flip Guerra or Margot, well, you know ...

[Enscheff]

What about Rymer Liriano? His star has faded significantly.

This makes quite a bit of sense. Both guys are toolsy players that haven't had any success at the MLB level in limited action.

Does Liriano have any options left?

[50PoundHead]

Hard to tell what happened with Bethancourt. I think it's more about attitude issues than on-field performance (although the two are linked). I just think the Braves don't like his approach and think he's unwilling to take instruction. Who knows what goes on?

[Chico]

Ryan Butler would be my guess

[rawwr]

Hard to tell what happened with Bethancourt. I think it's more about attitude issues than on-field performance (although the two are linked). I just think the Braves don't like his approach and think he's unwilling to take instruction. Who knows what goes on?

I feel like a large part of his downfall has just been a major shift in how catchers are valued over the last few years. His best feature has always been his arm, but over the last several years teams have started to realize pitch calling and framing are far more important, and he's not particularly good at either. Add to that the fact that his bat hasn't really ever developed like we hoped, and you have someone who just isn't nearly as valuable as we expected.

[bravesfanMatt]

I feel like a large part of his downfall has just been a major shift in how catchers are valued over the last few years. His best feature has always been his arm, but over the last several years teams have started to realize pitch calling and framing are far more important, and he's not particularly good at either. Add to that the fact that his bat hasn't really ever developed like we hoped, and you have someone who just isn't nearly as valuable as we expected.

or maybe, just maybe less than 300 Abs in the majors is not enough time to evaluate a hitter... or maybe just maybe if Frediot would have played him more than 4, FOUR, that is right 4 times in back to back games last year, he might have improved more. I think Catching has to be one of the most demanding positions on the field. and if you are playing every three days, and on top of that, you are a rookie.. I bet you would find it hard to develop consistency.

But his time with us is past.. wish him luck and just hope we can salvage something in a trade for him..

[atl717]

No reason to dump him for a non prospect. Just send him to AAA.

[Enscheff]

No reason to dump him for a non prospect. Just send him to AAA.

For the 50th time, he is out of options and can't just be sent to AAA without first passing through waivers. Surely some team would claim him and he would be gone anyways.

[UNCBlue012]

One name being discussed in exchange for Bethancourt to #Padres is Casey Kelly coming back to #Braves

[bravesfanforlife88]

Really, I think this is a change of scenery move. Braves will try to get some form of talent back but it wont be much.

[Horsehide Harry]

One name being discussed in exchange for Bethancourt to #Padres is Casey Kelly coming back to #Braves

Kelly's done. Too many elbow problems. He also would have to be on the 40 man, right?

Rather see someone else.

[atl717]

Kelly sucks, oh well.

[Knucksie]

Jayson Stark was the first to report that the Padres were pushing hard for Bethancourt. So, I think it's safe to step down from the soap box now.

Meh, whatever. Not everybody has ample free time to flip among Twitter, MLBTR and here all day long to react to every single update.

[bravesfanMatt]

Meh, whatever. Not everybody has ample free time to flip among Twitter, MLBTR and here all day long to react to every single update.

then don't make a comment:facepalm:..

[striker42]

Kelly sucks, oh well.

I listened to an interview with Hart last night. He tried to talk CB up but it was clear the Braves are exasperated with him. They really don't care what happens to him and really don't care what the return is.

[smootness]

Meh, whatever. Not everybody has ample free time to flip among Twitter, MLBTR and here all day long to react to every single update.

So why would you be upset when people put all of that in one spot so you can quickly react and then get back to your busy schedule?

[Enscheff]

Poster #1: You guys are wrong, and dumb.

Poster #2: We are not wrong...here's some proof.

Poster #1: I am too smart and busy to bother looking at proof. I am not too busy to come here and call you all wrong and dumb though.

[bravesfanforlife88]

So why would you be upset when people put all of that in one spot so you can quickly react and then get back to your busy schedule?

more importantly, if you don't have the time to do so, how do you have the time to be on a forum?

[Carp]

or maybe, just maybe less than 300 Abs in the majors is not enough time to evaluate a hitter... or maybe just maybe if Frediot would have played him more than 4, FOUR, that is right 4 times in back to back games last year, he might have improved more. I think Catching has to be one of the most demanding positions on the field. and if you are playing every three days, and on top of that, you are a rookie.. I bet you would find it hard to develop consistency.

But his time with us is past.. wish him luck and just hope we can salvage something in a trade for him..

May be, but his lack of effort has been widely noted. You want to play more, you have got to put in the work. And according to multiple reports, the Braves staff just wasn't seeing it.

[zbhargrove]

Meh, whatever. Not everybody has ample free time to flip among Twitter, MLBTR and here all day long to react to every single update.

Wow... Way to open yourself up for all that flack... Lmao

[bravesfanMatt]

May be, but his lack of effort has been widely noted. You want to play more, you have got to put in the work. And according to multiple reports, the Braves staff just wasn't seeing it.

I never read such reports. they may exist.. and don't worry about looking for them really. I am not questioning your sources.. Just saying from what I have seen.. I have heard radio and message boards saying he was lazy.. but that can also be hear se.. it really doesn't matter.. I am not that upset over CB... I am just a kind of guy that likes for a team to give a player a shot before saying nope.. beat it..

like folty getting a year of starts before casting him to the pen..

[bravesfanforlife88]

I never read such reports. they may exist.. and don't worry about looking for them really. I am not questioning your sources.. Just saying from what I have seen.. I have heard radio and message boards saying he was lazy.. but that can also be hear se.. it really doesn't matter.. I am not that upset over CB... I am just a kind of guy that likes for a team to give a player a shot before saying nope.. beat it..

like folty getting a year of starts before casting him to the pen..

agree until the bold statement....Folty may be an okay starter in the long run... but his main value could be at the back end of the bullpen setting up/closing down the line....and with the amount of pitching we have coming through our system I wouldn't be opposed to let him grow into the role...

[Tapate50]

We will take a draft pick I'm sure

[bravesfanMatt]

agree until the bold statement....Folty may be an okay starter in the long run... but his main value could be at the back end of the bullpen setting up/closing down the line....and with the amount of pitching we have coming through our system I wouldn't be opposed to let him grow into the role...

there are plenty of power arms for the bullpen. not as many that can maintain that through out the game. I would want him time to develop before saying his best value is out of the pen..

[bravesfanforlife88]

Jenkins
Newcomb
Blair
Perez
ManBan
Folty

Those are all guys that could reasonably show up to spring training with a chance to break spring training with the team as the 5th starter. If we sign a veteran SP for the 4th spot, I would like to see what either Jenkins, Newcomb, or Blair can do....we saw Perez/ManBan/Folty last year

[bravesfanMatt]

Jenkins
Newcomb
Blair
Perez
ManBan
Folty

Those are all guys that could reasonably show up to spring training with a chance to break spring training with the team as the 5th starter. If we sign a veteran SP for the 4th spot, I would like to see what either Jenkins, Newcomb, or Blair can do....we saw Perez/ManBan/Folty last year

Jenkins/Newcomb/Blair won't start in Atl next season.. one, no need to start their clock this season... two, they will benefit more from AAA next year... and three, Folty/ManBan/Perez/Weber need to define their roles and/or build value.. there is a great chance that 3 of those four I just mentioned to be with another organization next year.

[Enscheff]

Jenkins/Newcomb/Blair won't start in Atl next season.. one, no need to start their clock this season... two, they will benefit more from AAA next year... and three, Folty/ManBan/Perez/Weber need to define their roles and/or build value.. there is a great chance that 3 of those four I just mentioned to be with another organization next year.

It's more likely that Folty and ManBan will be in the BP by 2017, and guys like Perez and Weber are nothing more than swingmen or AAAA guys used to be the 7th guy in the MLB rotation. Personally, I hope the organization doesn't waste too much time making the conversion to the BP for those guys. If they don't stick in the rotation this year, change their roles and move on.

[bravesfanMatt]

It's more likely that Folty and ManBan will be in the BP by 2017, and guys like Perez and Weber are nothing more than swingmen or AAAA guys used to be the 7th guy in the MLB rotation. Personally, I hope the organization doesn't waste too much time making the conversion to the BP for those guys. If they don't stick in the rotation this year, change their roles and move on.

That is basically my point. Folty needs to start this year. if you got it, then we have a GOOD problem going into 2017.. if he flops around like last year.. then to the pen.. ManBan should be the same. I would be ok with a 6 man rotation to start the season. one if not both of Weber or Perez will either be traded or in AAA to start 2016.. the other might make the club and then traded at the deadline.. I don't know the specifics right now. .but I would imagine Perez/Weber are close to being out of options..and I can't imagine the Braves are wanting to waste roster spots on them much past this year.

[Tapate50]

I keep seeing that there are new posts in this thread and it's just talking about the back end of the rotation. :FrediWut:

[Russ2dollas]

That is basically my point. Folty needs to start this year. if you got it, then we have a GOOD problem going into 2017.. if he flops around like last year.. then to the pen.. ManBan should be the same. I would be ok with a 6 man rotation to start the season. one if not both of Weber or Perez will either be traded or in AAA to start 2016.. the other might make the club and then traded at the deadline.. I don't know the specifics right now. .but I would imagine Perez/Weber are close to being out of options..and I can't imagine the Braves are wanting to waste roster spots on them much past this year.

Agree. Folty has to declare himself as a starter or rp this year

I think vet and or man ban or Perez at end. Ship them off at deadline and the bring up some of the aaa or aa guys.

If you want to be good in 2017 you can't have 2 plus starters who have never thrown in mlb

[Oklahomabrave]

Seems odd this is taking so long.

[UNCBlue012]

Yeah... Why is this taking so long? Either a larger deal or it's just nothing lol

[The Chosen One]

Seems odd this is taking so long.


Yeah... Why is this taking so long? Either a larger deal or it's just nothing lol

Coppy has to decide which A prospect he gets to pick for Christmas.

[Oklahomabrave]

Just really hoping they get Aybar and we get anything useful.

[drewdat]

Probably trying to expand it as a 3-way with AZ. At least I hope so.

[rico43]

Yeah... Why is this taking so long? Either a larger deal or it's just nothing lol

Just stating the obvious, but the teams are all flying home from Nashville today. Could it be that there are just a few logistical reasons for a delay?

[Enscheff]

There might be something else at play. We saw the Cubs wait to sign Zobrist and trade Castro until both deals could happen almost simultaneously. Maybe the Cubs are now waiting on Heyward to sign so it can happen at the same time as a Soler trade. If that Soler trade is with Atlanta for Inciarte plus CB (or someone that could be packaged with CB in a trade with SD), we might be waiting until all those dominoes can fall (or don't fall) at once.

Probably not, but I'm bored the last couple hours at work.

[emk418]

If it's Casey Kelly I don't get this. I fully understand the concerns with CB but I'm also annoyed with how he was handled last year. I don't think he's the future at C by any means but just handing him to another team without giving him a shot is not smart. Especially when catching is a huge need.

[dak]

One positive on Casey Kelly is that he appears to have two minor league option years remaining. He seems more deserving of an MLB roster spot than McKirahan and Burawa.

[Heyward]

Meh

Atlanta Braves ‏@Braves
#Braves acquire RHP Casey Kelly and C Ricardo Rodriguez from #Padres in exchange for C Christian Bethancourt.

[UNCBlue012]

That's really not a bad deal at all, guys. Lol

[CJ9]

Looks like Rodriguez is only 17. Anything interesting with him as a prospect?

[Enscheff]

Supposedly the best catching prospect from the 2014 international market.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/21-international-prospect-ricardo-rodriguez/

[Nxun]

2014 international signing. Below is from BA:

The Padres have signed 16-year-old Venezuelan catcher Ricardo Rodriguez, the No. 21 international prospect for July 2.

At 5-foot-10, 180 pounds, Rodriguez is a righthanded hitter who projects to stick behind the plate thanks to his solid catch-and-throw skills, a tick above-average arm strength and good field awareness. Among catchers who project to stick at the position (Miguel Flames of Venezuela is still fairly new to the position), Rodriguez was the best catcher on the market. He trained with Ciro Barrios.

[NinersSBChamps]

Meh

Atlanta Braves ‏@Braves
#Braves acquire RHP Casey Kelly and C Ricardo Rodriguez from #Padres in exchange for C Christian Bethancourt.
Just a meaningless trade all around. Hope CB can figure things out in San Diego though.

[zbhargrove]

Rodriguez sounds a lot like Bethancourt when he was signed:

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/82213732/padres-sign-venezuelan-catcher-ricardo-rodriguez

[Tapate50]

You really can't ask for more than that. A nice upside catcher? Yes please

[zbhargrove]

Just a meaningless trade all around. Hope CB can figure things out in San Diego though.

I guess it is meaningless if you know nothing about the players or care to research them. It actually looks like a pretty good deal. Rodriguez and young and far away but actually has some really nice upside. Kelly could turn into a legit bullpen guy.

[Russ2dollas]

Just a meaningless trade all around. Hope CB can figure things out in San Diego though.

I agree we did a bad job with CB.
But it's clear CB off the field had the team souring on him quickly

A former high pick who could be a cheap bp arm

The young catcher looks interesting. Solid behind the plate and can hit with power potential per my google search. I'm not saying he ever plays mlb but it gives us another long term catching option to go with Herbert. Maybe they push each other

[dak]

675133759717572608

[Russ2dollas]

Rodriguez sounds a lot like Bethancourt when he was signed:

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/82213732/padres-sign-venezuelan-catcher-ricardo-rodriguez

Did anyone say bp could hit like they say this guy can hit? I remember elite arm elite d and power potential. I don't recall contact ever being there for CB

I think this sounds more like a CB with a higher floor and a much lower ceiling

And I was really underwhelmed by cbs d despite hype from law. Arm was a laser though

[skillet]

Damn how the mighty have fallen. From one of our top prospects, to being shipped out for what amounts to a bag of balls. :facepalm:

[Tapate50]

Damn how the mighty have fallen. From one of our top prospects, to being shipped out for what amounts to a bag of balls. :facepalm:

For a top international signee. Bag of balls? Cmon...

[zbhargrove]

Damn how the mighty have fallen. From one of our top prospects, to being shipped out for what amounts to a bag of balls. :facepalm:

Or traded for a C with about the same potential that actually could amount to something and a former first round pick trying to find his way again after some injuries. Could be a solid BP guy easy.

[bravesfanMatt]

so does this open a spot on the 40 man... not sure if Kelly needs a spot or not. Anyone?

**edit** help get us back down to 40 on the roster.. I know we are over right now.

[zbhargrove]

Did anyone say bp could hit like they say this guy can hit? I remember elite arm elite d and power potential. I don't recall contact ever being there for CB

I think this sounds more like a CB with a higher floor and a much lower ceiling

And I was really underwhelmed by cbs d despite hype from law. Arm was a laser though

I think you're totally right in your assessment. At 17 I think he's already showing more promise than CB at the same age.

[dak]

so does this open a spot on the 40 man... not sure if Kelly needs a spot or not. Anyone?

**edit** help get us back down to 40 on the roster.. I know we are over right now.

It's a neutral move. Kelly has been added to 40-man. We need to clear two spots to add Boni and Flowers. I'd guess this will happen by close of business tomorrow.

[The Chosen One]

When is the deadline for 40 man?

[skillet]

What an extremely disappointing end to a very promising career. We basically got nothing for him. Would have rather tried to get him through waivers and see if we could put him back in Gwinnett.

[bravesfanMatt]

It's a neutral move. Kelly has been added to 40-man. We need to clear two spots to add Boni and Flowers. I'd guess this will happen by close of business tomorrow.


thanks.. figured he had to be on the 40 man since he has been around the league for a bit. I guess they will need to cut two.. one for Boni and the other for the rule 5 pick that I wish to call ER from this point on...

[zbhargrove]

What an extremely disappointing end to a very promising career. We basically got nothing for him. Would have rather tried to get him through waivers and see if we could put him back in Gwinnett.

I'm so sick of hearing you say we got nothing. That's simply not true. Please research the players before getting emotional. The catcher we got has a chance to actually be a successful version of CB.

[bravesfanMatt]

What an extremely disappointing end to a very promising career. We basically got nothing for him. Would have rather tried to get him through waivers and see if we could put him back in Gwinnett.

Zero chance he clears waivers.. I mean.. maybe -5% chance really. There would be no way we could trade him if he had no value to clear waivers.. considering he lost his job to a senior citizen.. this is not a bad return..

[zitothebrave]

Looking at the return, Kelly is largely a turd. His K rate is fine, his BB rate is fine, he just gets hit a lot and has at basically every level.

Early return on Rodriguez have been interesting. Striking out around 10% walks around 6%, meh amount of pop. Overall rodriguez seems like a solid player, but nothing amazing.

[The Chosen One]

What an extremely disappointing end to a very promising career. We basically got nothing for him. Would have rather tried to get him through waivers and see if we could put him back in Gwinnett.

I think his makeup problem is why they basically unloaded him.

It wasn't all for nothing. Rodriguez alone looks to be what Bethancourt should have been.

[zitothebrave]

I think his makeup problem is why they basically unloaded him.

It wasn't all for nothing. Rodriguez alone looks to be what Bethancourt should have been.

I doubt that. We were told Bethancourt would be a defensive whiz who could be averagish offensively. The reports on Rodriguez is he won't hurt anything but won't excel anywhere as well.

[bravesfanMatt]

I think his makeup problem is why they basically unloaded him.

It wasn't all for nothing. Rodriguez alone looks to be what Bethancourt should have been.

CB was a cross dresser.. or was it a metro thing??

[NinersSBChamps]

Damn how the mighty have fallen. From one of our top prospects, to being shipped out for what amounts to a bag of balls. :facepalm:

So more proof that prospects are just that. Wasn't CB fairly touted too?

[The Chosen One]

I doubt that. We were told Bethancourt would be a defensive whiz who could be averagish offensively. The reports on Rodriguez is he won't hurt anything but won't excel anywhere as well.

Rodriguez is 17, you of all people should be excited about that.

Still young, time to develop let's see how he goes through our system. Other than Fredi do we have any catching gurus in our organization? I know Chino Cadahia was a big influence to McCann back in the day.

[dak]

When is the deadline for 40 man?

Not sure I follow. The only deadline per se is the deadline to add guys to the 40 man in November before the Rule 5 draft. Aside from that, the 40 man roster is always in effect.

If your asking about the deadline for teams to file the paperwork on FA deals (like with Boni and Flowers), I'm not sure there is one. I assume the papers are all signed and there's somewhat of a handshake deal in place, with the agents knowing that ATL just wants more time to clear roster spots.

[bravesfanMatt]

I doubt that. We were told Bethancourt would be a defensive whiz who could be averagish offensively. The reports on Rodriguez is he won't hurt anything but won't excel anywhere as well.

just don't really know how anyone can truly tell what a player will be like at 17.. I know you can have a general idea.. but dude could grow three inches and gain 40 pounds of muscle.. become a basher or to big to play the position..

[NinersSBChamps]

I guess it is meaningless if you know nothing about the players or care to research them. It actually looks like a pretty good deal. Rodriguez and young and far away but actually has some really nice upside. Kelly could turn into a legit bullpen guy.


Don't care to research players who more than likely won't amount to anything. It's a trade for prospects for a good prospect who hasn't succeeded in the majors. Wasn't knocking the players involved in the deal. Just saying its a minor trade.

[The Chosen One]

Not sure I follow. The only deadline per se is the deadline to add guys to the 40 man in November before the Rule 5 draft. Aside from that, the 40 man roster is always in effect.

If your asking about the deadline for teams to file the paperwork on FA deals (like with Boni and Flowers), I'm not sure there is one. I assume the papers are all signed and there's somewhat of a handshake deal in place, with the agents knowing that ATL just wants more time to clear roster spots.

That's what I mean. I'm not familiar with 40-man rules, I just thought since we're full on 40 right now, and that we signed Bonafacio and Flowers to major league deals, that there was a certain deadline to get them on there after we signed them.

[skillet]

I'm so sick of hearing you say we got nothing. That's simply not true. Please research the players before getting emotional. The catcher we got has a chance to actually be a successful version of CB.

To start with, I have every right to post my thoughts just as you do, yet I didn't criticize your view. I have more consideration. Second, I only posted twice yet you are "so sick". Doesn't take much to get you sick apparently.

[Enscheff]

The new catcher was signed for $800k in 2014. That is not an insignificant talent. If he turns into a backup catcher he probably contributes more than CB ever would have in Atlanta.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Hart was just on the radio and said that Rodriquez reminds him of a young Sandy Alomar Jr.

If that's the case, then this trade is a clear win for us.

[The Chosen One]

To start with, I have every right to post my thoughts just as you do, yet I didn't criticize your view. I have more consideration. Second, I only posted twice yet you are "so sick". Doesn't take much to get you sick apparently.

I think he's just sick of the negative nancies in general.

Zb is more of a tradtional old school guy, not so much saber.

Evreyone calm down. We're freaking out about trading Bethancourt for crying out loud.

[zitothebrave]

Rodriguez is 17, you of all people should be excited about that.

Still young, time to develop let's see how he goes through our system. Other than Fredi do we have any catching gurus in our organization? I know Chino Cadahia was a big influence to McCann back in the day.

You never know, but his frame doesn't really do much. He's 5'10. Mac is 6'3. Mac's issues were his arm not being strong and being a big catcher. He had to drill on his mechanics and did. You can't drill on height. Height leads to power.

Don't get me wrong, he could be a solid player. But I wouldn't say he was what we were promised with Bethancourt. Bengie Molina is what we were promised with Bethancourt.

[zbhargrove]

I doubt that. We were told Bethancourt would be a defensive whiz who could be averagish offensively. The reports on Rodriguez is he won't hurt anything but won't excel anywhere as well.

The reports on Rodriguez sound like he can be a whiz also with better offense. So I greatly disagree with you.

[The Chosen One]

Hart was just on the radio and said that Rodriquez reminds him of a young Sandy Alomar Jr.

If that's the case, then this trade is a clear win for us.

lol. I can never tell if you're serious or not anymore.

[Enscheff]

Hart was just on the radio and said that Rodriquez reminds him of a young Sandy Alomar Jr.

If that's the case, then this trade is a clear win for us.

Haha do you really think Hart has seen the guy play? I don't think he's even stepped foot in the US.

[Russ2dollas]

I doubt that. We were told Bethancourt would be a defensive whiz who could be averagish offensively. The reports on Rodriguez is he won't hurt anything but won't excel anywhere as well.

CB was not a defensive wiz nor did he hit

My reading of the article is the young catcher is an above avg defender with above avg arm who can hit. Not piazza hit but handle the bat hit. They gave the guy 800k. Top 30 international guy. High baseball iq

Sounds like a great return considering everyone knew we were dealing him and the front office hated him.

I think if u complain you complain about why the front office hated him and why they're were so open about it

[zbhargrove]

You never know, but his frame doesn't really do much. He's 5'10. Mac is 6'3. Mac's issues were his arm not being strong and being a big catcher. He had to drill on his mechanics and did. You can't drill on height. Height leads to power.

Don't get me wrong, he could be a solid player. But I wouldn't say he was what we were promised with Bethancourt. Bengie Molina is what we were promised with Bethancourt.

Just saying... I grew 4 inches between 17 and 19. It's not too common but 17 year old kids are rarely done growing their frame completely.

[Heyward]

Hart was just on the radio and said that Rodriquez reminds him of a young Sandy Alomar Jr.

If that's the case, then this trade is a clear win for us.

shut up, your smartass comments are getting old.

[The Chosen One]

shut up, your smartass comments are getting old.

Are you sure?

He's threatening to take your title right now. Early start for 2016 season.

[Heyward]

Are you sure?

He's threatening to take your title right now. Early start for 2016 season.

I've cooled down on negative posts, Niners probably beats me out for 2016.

[The Chosen One]

I've cooled down on negative posts, Niners probably beats me out for 2016.

Could be Co-Champions again, or split 3 ways.

[steveAKAslick]

I've cooled down on negative posts, Niners probably beats me out for 2016.

For 2016?!?! Gotta be in the runnin for 2015 as well...if anyone else has negative posts at least they are based on actual knowledge

[zitothebrave]

CB was not a defensive wiz nor did he hit

My reading of the article is the young catcher is an above avg defender with above avg arm who can hit. Not piazza hit but handle the bat hit. They gave the guy 800k. Top 30 international guy. High baseball iq

Sounds like a great return considering everyone knew we were dealing him and the front office hated him.

I think if u complain you complain about why the front office hated him and why they're were so open about it

Well let's start by clarifying that he was 30th ranked in his class. He was top 30 by the skin of his teeth.He did not make the top 10 prospects for the Padres according to BA. He didn't make their top 30 according to MLB.com. Let's not act like this guy is some kind of high ceiling guy who's amazing.

Now I'll say i'm not upset with our return. We got rid of Bethancourt who I've not been a fan of for years. He'll be going to SD where he'll be a backup and probably somewhat successful as that. I wonder who they'll trade between Hedges and Norris.

[Horsehide Harry]

I like it. Basically a 6 year re-set on CB with Rodriguez and they got Kelly as a throw in...

Kelly's probably done, but he could be treated basically as a second rule 5 that you don't have to return.

[zitothebrave]

Just saying... I grew 4 inches between 17 and 19. It's not too common but 17 year old kids are rarely done growing their frame completely.

It's possible, but like you said, it's not common.

[NinersSBChamps]

I've cooled down on negative posts, Niners probably beats me out for 2016.

I speak the truth. If that's perceived as negative from the homers than give me the crown.

[zbhargrove]

Well let's start by clarifying that he was 30th ranked in his class. He was top 30 by the skin of his teeth.He did not make the top 10 prospects for the Padres according to BA. He didn't make their top 30 according to MLB.com. Let's not act like this guy is some kind of high ceiling guy who's amazing.

Now I'll say i'm not upset with our return. We got rid of Bethancourt who I've not been a fan of for years. He'll be going to SD where he'll be a backup and probably somewhat successful as that. I wonder who they'll trade between Hedges and Norris.

I don't think Bethancourt was ever in our top 10 at that age, either. I remember people talked about his potential but he wasn't ever on our top prospect lists yet.

[UNCBlue012]

I said it earlier, I like the move. I was never really that high on Christian Bethancourt anyways, but I think it's a good move.

[striker42]

Better return than I was expecting. The Braves just wanted to be done with CB so getting back a legitimate prospect is a pleasant surprise.

Catchers tend to develop more slowly than guys at other positions so the hit tool might take a few years to really manifest.

[rico43]

Most of these "ratings" won't qualify 17 year old playes unless they have a big year in the DSL or the like. But even we have been reserved about someone like Ventura, who had such amazing SB and assist numbers at age 17. I'm just glad to see between he and Herbert, that catching should be a strength in the system moving forward.

[zbhargrove]

Well let's start by clarifying that he was 30th ranked in his class. He was top 30 by the skin of his teeth.He did not make the top 10 prospects for the Padres according to BA. He didn't make their top 30 according to MLB.com. Let's not act like this guy is some kind of high ceiling guy who's amazing.

Now I'll say i'm not upset with our return. We got rid of Bethancourt who I've not been a fan of for years. He'll be going to SD where he'll be a backup and probably somewhat successful as that. I wonder who they'll trade between Hedges and Norris.

Bethancourt was 18 before he was ranked on any top Braves prospects. Playing A ball... RR still hasn't played above rookie ball and is only 17... So let's not act like they are that far apart at their ages. Anyone remember where CB ranked as an international prospect? He had potential but I don't think he was super high.

[smootness]

I speak the truth. If that's perceived as negative from the homers than give me the crown.

Lulz

[zbhargrove]

I speak the truth. If that's perceived as negative from the homers than give me the crown.

No you speak opinion...

[rico43]

Don't care to research players who more than likely won't amount to anything. It's a trade for prospects for a good prospect who hasn't succeeded in the majors. Wasn't knocking the players involved in the deal. Just saying its a minor trade.

A couple of this week's moves aren't official yet pending the passing of physicals (Bonifacio, Flowers).

[Millwood1Hitter]

CB was just an overhyped prospect in a Frank Wren depleted minor league system. I mean who else was there to hype up as far as position players besides Peraza and Terdo, lol and Albies in the low low minors.

So being he was young, has some good tools, all of a sudden a Henry Blanco type turns into Yadier Molina. Combine that with a lack maturity and work ethic, and he will be lucky to have a career as a backup ala Blanco. If he changes, he just might amount to something a little better, but never a star.

[rico43]

675133759717572608

THis might be heresy, but I wish Gondeee was one of us here. I like a lot of the stuff he posts.

[The Chosen One]

THis might be heresy, but I wish Gondeee was one of us here. I like a lot of the stuff he posts.

You could always ask him.

I mean we have KeithLaw, clvclv, and Co-Owner of BravesCenter that post here regularly.

[rico43]

With Casey Kelly and Gordon Beckham, the Braves now have two first-round picks from the 2008 June draft. What's notable about that is that 2008 was one of the all-time stinkbomb picks for Atlanta, Brett DeVall, who retired at the age of 20 rather than undergo TJ surgery. Notice that DeVall tried a comeback in the Frontier League in 2015, however.
Both Kelly and Beckham were drafted ahead of DeVall, of course.

[rico43]

You could always ask him.

I mean we have KeithLaw, clvclv, and Co-Owner of BravesCenter that post here regularly.

With the blessing of The Don, I will reach out to him. I once interviewed him when I worked on show in Chattanooga.

[Deester11]

Funny. People have poo pooed Bethancourt and for good reason. However he wasn't just crap and he has talent no matter what yall think. The adage holds true though, "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

CB simply didn't grasp the nuisances of catching. He had an arm. At lower levels that covered up his deficiencies. I've seen him from rookie ball to the majors. He never had a kick in the arse enough to make him understand what he needed to do to be successful. In any case, the return was more than I expected.

[The Chosen One]

With the blessing of The Don, I will reach out to him. I once interviewed him when I worked on show in Chattanooga.

Sure!

I mean we're not competing with him really. He has his own thing, clvclv posts his articles here.

[The Chosen One]

Funny. People have poo pooed Bethancourt and for good reason. However he wasn't just crap and he has talent no matter what yall think. The adage holds true though, "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

CB simply didn't grasp the nuisances of catching. He had an arm. At lower levels that covered up his deficiencies. I've seen him from rookie ball to the majors. He never had a kick in the arse enough to make him understand what he needed to do to be successful. In any case, the return was more than I expected.

Should have kept Laird to mold CB.

[Russ2dollas]

Well let's start by clarifying that he was 30th ranked in his class. He was top 30 by the skin of his teeth.He did not make the top 10 prospects for the Padres according to BA. He didn't make their top 30 according to MLB.com. Let's not act like this guy is some kind of high ceiling guy who's amazing.

Now I'll say i'm not upset with our return. We got rid of Bethancourt who I've not been a fan of for years. He'll be going to SD where he'll be a backup and probably somewhat successful as that. I wonder who they'll trade between Hedges and Norris.

Never said he was likely to be a mb player much less an impact guy

But last year he got 800k. You don't pay that for filler. I think yepez and Acura type guys go around that range

[Enscheff]

No Acura costs $800k bro

[zitothebrave]

Never said he was likely to be a mb player much less an impact guy

But last year he got 800k. You don't pay that for filler. I think yepez and Acura type guys go around that range

I'm not saying the guy is a bum. But there's an important thing to temper expectations. His reports aren't super glowy and he's not acknowledged by anyone as being a special talent. Of course he's a catcher and sometimes a catcher can really fly under the radar and be special. Lucroy never hit the BA top 100, nor did any Molinas.

[emk418]

I really don't understand this. We're rebuilding and refused to even give the guy a look. Most likely won't miss him but never understood Fredi's treatment of him last year. We had every opportunity to just give him a look to see if he would develop and we refused to. Now we have a crap pitcher for him

[Deester11]

I really don't understand this. We're rebuilding and refused to even give the guy a look. Most likely won't miss him but never understood Fredi's treatment of him last year. We had every opportunity to just give him a look to see if he would develop and we refused to. Now we have a crap pitcher for him we were trying to be competitive. Bs!

[skillet]

I really don't understand this. We're rebuilding and refused to even give the guy a look. Most likely won't miss him but never understood Fredi's treatment of him last year. We had every opportunity to just give him a look to see if he would develop and we refused to. Now we have a crap pitcher for him

Very well said and my sentiments exactly. Fredi is a damned idiot for not playing him regularly last year, and now as a result his value is ruined and we had to trade him at an all time low.

[Mad Dog Murph]

Lol....if he would have played regularly the Braves would have had to pay money to get rid of him.

Can't believe some of you are butt hurt over CB....I am surprised we got anything of value for him.

[Oklahomabrave]

I'm just disappointed we didn't try and fleece the Padres yet this offseason. They have restocked, time to make another trade with them. If we trade with Diamonbacks and Padres 1-2 more times we could easily compete in 2017

[skillet]

Lol....if he would have played regularly the Braves would have had to pay money to get rid of him.

Can't believe some of you are butt hurt over CB....I am surprised we got anything of value for him.

What an asinine statement.

[goldfly]

No Acura costs $800k bro

6 Acura nsx's do though

[GovClintonTyree]

Funny. People have poo pooed Bethancourt and for good reason. However he wasn't just crap and he has talent no matter what yall think. The adage holds true though, "hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

CB simply didn't grasp the nuisances of catching. He had an arm. At lower levels that covered up his deficiencies. I've seen him from rookie ball to the majors. He never had a kick in the arse enough to make him understand what he needed to do to be successful. In any case, the return was more than I expected.

Bethancourt is 24. In ten years, he's got a chance to be 34.

[GovClintonTyree]

I really don't understand this. We're rebuilding and refused to even give the guy a look. Most likely won't miss him but never understood Fredi's treatment of him last year. We had every opportunity to just give him a look to see if he would develop and we refused to. Now we have a crap pitcher for him

I think I do. He's a lazy dickhead.

You gotta watch "reports on his defense..." It's hard to quantify. And every time I hear "great arm," I wonder about the other 80%.

Kelly does look like crap. Somebody must have seen something. The other guy is the return. Another young lottery ticket, but this one catches.

[GovClintonTyree]

What an asinine statement.

Nah. I don't think he's much of anything, either. And we don't work with the guy. There were enough reports from different sources about his work ethic and makeup that give me reason to believe he was a giant turd.

:Bowman:

[GovClintonTyree]

Should have kept Laird to mold CB.

Like a giant amoeba or something.

[bravesfanforlife88]

No Acura costs $800k bro

I sell Acuras the most expensive tops out about $66k and change before taxes and fees. That is the 2016 Acura RLX SportHybrid with 377 HP......

Now the NSX will have a sticker of $155,000 when it debuts this spring

[buck75]

I sell Acuras the most expensive tops out about $66k and change before taxes and fees. That is the 2016 Acura RLX SportHybrid with 377 HP......

Now the NSX will have a sticker of $155,000 when it debuts this spring

Hopefully he'll be driving one when he plays for the ATL Braves (in Marietta).

[Julio3000]

I'm not sure whether to go with:

"G Laird broke the mold"

or

"G Laird isn't afraid of a little mold."

[Deester11]

Bethancourt is 24. In ten years, he's got a chance to be 34.

You're such a profound philosopher. Nah. Not so much.

[50PoundHead]

I'm not sure whether to go with:

"G Laird broke the mold"

or

"G Laird isn't afraid of a little mold."

Or, when the Lairdness was born, they threw out the mold. Unfortunately, some of it grew back.

We can harp on Fredi and company for Bethancourt's failure to develop, but there are times when a guy needs, as Deester said, a kick to the behind to wake up. Guys who find themselves in the doghouse usually have a way to work their way out of it. It appears Bethancourt never found the exit sign. That can get to be a clubhouse problem when guys who are coasting get a free pass or the opportunity to keep screwing up with no change in their ardor toward application. Bethancourt looks like one of those guys who was born to play baseball. The old "more talent in his little finger, but he has to choose to lift it" kind of guy. This happens all the time in the baseball at all levels. You see teams release or trade guys all the time because of real or imagined attitude issues. It just seems that Bethancourt's time in Atlanta had come to an end.

[rico43]

Very well said and my sentiments exactly. Fredi is a damned idiot for not playing him regularly last year, and now as a result his value is ruined and we had to trade him at an all time low.

Did it occur to you that the pitchers did not like throwing to him?

[rico43]

I think I do. He's a lazy dickhead.

You gotta watch "reports on his defense..." It's hard to quantify. And every time I hear "great arm," I wonder about the other 80%.

Kelly does look like crap. Somebody must have seen something. The other guy is the return. Another young lottery ticket, but this one catches.

This past season was his first year back from TJ. Sometimes guys need that year to find themselves. But if he's still a shadow of himself when 2016 begins, then you cut him loose. He has two options remaining, which I'm sure was a factor.

[clvclv]

agree until the bold statement....Folty may be an okay starter in the long run... but his main value could be at the back end of the bullpen setting up/closing down the line....and with the amount of pitching we have coming through our system I wouldn't be opposed to let him grow into the role...

Starting in February.

[emk418]

We follow a brilliant move with a head scratching move.

[skillet]

Did it occur to you that the pitchers did not like throwing to him?

Rico do you know this for a fact, or is this conjecture on your part?

[clvclv]

Rodriguez is 17, you of all people should be excited about that.

Still young, time to develop let's see how he goes through our system. Other than Fredi do we have any catching gurus in our organization? I know Chino Cadahia was a big influence to McCann back in the day.

IIRC, Javy has been or might be working with them to some extent. Has been too long for me to remember exactly what was said, but I seem to recall it being discussed a bit while he was in the booth when he went into the Braves' HOF back in the spring.

Might be just during camp - sad that I can't recall exactly what he said - maybe that'll jog someone else's memory.

[Tapate50]

We follow a brilliant move with a head scratching move.

Eh?

[JohnAdcox]

Did it occur to you that the pitchers did not like throwing to him?

Really? I didn't remember his bat being that strong.*





*Relax, I'm kidding. I know what you meant. Seriously, that's been verified, yes? I've heard it so much, and seen enough*just watching casually, that my knee-jerk reaction is to believe it. Still....

[clvclv]

Sure!

I mean we're not competing with him really. He has his own thing, clvclv posts his articles here.

And really simply because that's much easier (and better for everyone here who'd prefer not to read my long-winded opinions in threads) to try to keep things on topic rather than spinning threads too far out of control when I try to project what moves might mean for the future. Not really trying to "do anything" with my site other than shoot off my mouth. Always appreciate replies there, but more interested in having it drive posters to this forum FWIW. I don't have time to post enough columns to make it much more than it is. It is nice to have it picked up by MLBTR from time to time though.

[clvclv]

Rico do you know this for a fact, or is this conjecture on your part?

Not conjecture. Was discussed on game telecasts after he was called back up late last season. He and Julio always seemed to have at least some trouble getting together when he was on the mound.

[Metaphysicist]

So is there an official count on the number of Tommy John's we've now traded for?

[Russ2dollas]

law's write up on the trade is much higher on the pitcher than I thought and solid on the catcher.

Called Rodriguez a catcher with a chance to hit. That's a good thing to have in the system. I doubt he ever plays, he's not toolsy. But we have a chance and didn't have to pay him 800K.

[GovClintonTyree]

Not conjecture. Was discussed on game telecasts after he was called back up late last season. He and Julio always seemed to have at least some trouble getting together when he was on the mound.

Julio has a little Bob Gibson in him.

"Get the f**k off my mound and go back behind the plate!"

[50PoundHead]

Julio has a little Bob Gibson in him.

"Get the f**k off my mound and go back behind the plate!"

I agree. It gets him off his game every now and then, but he doesn't back down when hitters don't back off the plate. He also knows what he wants to do on the mound. No nonsense guy when things are going right.