WOW Uggla and BJ OUT! GDT 8/13

[stpeteirish]

RF Heyward
LF Justin
1b Freddie
C MacCann
3b CJ
2b Pastor
CF Schafer
SS Simmons
P Medlen

Uggla to the DL!

[Tapate50]

Need to get Schafer back in his groove and this would be a great lineup. Sub Gattis in for Jordan and move Heyward over to CF and you got some pop!

[CJC]

We could field this lineup with a $67 Million Payroll. Take out Hudson as well and its $58 Million or less than everyone except the Cubs, A's, Marlins and Astros.

[nsacpi]

With a lefty going tomorrow, this was the game to put Schafer in the lineup this series.

And tomorrow, I would guess we see Gattis.

[Orphan Black]

Pastor batting 6th seems a little off though.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Uggla decided to have that eye surgery

[jdunn]

The joys of a 14 game lead. Uggla had to do something as he wasn't hurting us this much when he was a Marlin. Hopefully vision is his problem and the surgery will fix it, as you will not be able to hide his bat in a playoff game.

[weso1]

Really smart move by the Braves and Uggla. Why not give it a try. He's just not helping the team right now.

[Orphan Black]

Watch him come back and hit 15 homers the rest of the way.

I didn't know someone fell 60 feet and died at the ball park yesterday...just read that news.

[stpeteirish]

Uggla decided to have that eye surgery

Or Wren decided for him. They must have watched him play last night.

[cajunrevenge]

This should have been done a long time ago.

[emk418]

Pastor batting 6th seems a little off though.

Yea kind of weird but better than Uggla batting 6th. I still want to see Justin batting 4th eventually.

[Five]

This should have been done a long time ago.

No doubt about it. For he's sake I hope it works.

[GovClintonTyree]

Or Wren decided for him. They must have watched him play last night.

Yeah, I don't think Dan decided ****.

[BravesBlock]

Uggla decided to have that eye surgery


This should have been done a long time ago.

Absolutely. He has hurt himself and the team by not getting this taken care of sooner. But I swear it does seem like some braves brass read this board because there are a lot of coincidences. Hopefully Uggla will come back ready to go. By the way, how long us he expected to miss?

[nsacpi]

But I swear it does seem like some braves brass read this board because there are a lot of coincidences.

I loved the quote from Fredi after he brought out the new lineup with Heyward batting leadoff. He simply said "I succumbed." If he keeps succumbing to our collective wisdom this team will go all the way.

[Bdawg2309]

Hopefully pastornicky can hit

[nsacpi]

Yeah. This a big opportunity for Pastornicky.

[Enscheff]

While Uggla is out, I'd like to see Fredi take the final step in optimizing the lineup and bat the pitcher 8th so Pastor can hit in front of Heyward and Justin:

Heyward
JUpton
Freeman
Mac/Gattis
CJ
Schafer/BUpton
Simmons
Pitcher
Pastor

[sgtpepper1972]

For the Braves sake as well...

[CrimsonCowboy]

I hope you saw that feature with Uggla and that little girl who had been fighting cancer. Good stuff.

[BravesBlock]

Uggla decided to have that eye surgery


I hope you saw that feature with Uggla and that little girl who had been fighting cancer. Good stuff.
Although the attacks can get personal I don't think anybody on here has a personal problem with Uggla. It just seems many are frustrated with his deteriorating baseball skills. Hopefully he comes back and is worth every penny he is being paid for the remainder of his contract.

[Russ2dollas]

The lead allows the Braves to push Uggla to the optometrist....yea lead

[BlackwaterPark]

Tommy Hanson was sent to AAA

[TDlxANDER]

Medlen has to lead the league in line drive outs

[Gary82]

whew. lucky to get out of that one alive.

[CrimsonCowboy]

If Medlen continues to allow these liners, maybe he should allow the baby to pitch some.

You'll get that lame joke if you have seen the new Braves/Medlen promo spot

[Strike3urout]

Medlen had no clue where the ball was going most of that inning...

[Gary82]

Jason is up to .252 now.

[TDlxANDER]

Am I the only one who thinks it's time for this team to cool off some so that they can get hot again in October?

[Gary82]

2 on nobody out, now 2 on 2 out. Come on CJ.

[Gary82]

Both teams blow good chances at scoring in the first.

[Gary82]

Mississippi Braves ‏@MBraves 27m
Christian Bethancourt's 1st inning single sets the M-Braves franchise on-base streak record at 39 games. @MiLB Braves lead 2-0 in Pensacola!

It looks like Bethancourt is taking the next step. It might only be a couple of years before he's in the big leagues on a permanent basis.

[Strike3urout]

That's better Kris!

[Tapate50]

It looks like Bethancourt is taking the next step. It might only be a couple of years before he's in the big leagues on a permanent basis.
And writing Macs ticket out of town...

[zitothebrave]

Good job meds.

[parkvadawg]

Welp we have a lot of contact hitters in the lineup. Hopefully we score.

[thethe]

I would love to see Pastor for an extended period of time.

[nsacpi]

How nice that is to see

[emk418]

Pastor!

[parkvadawg]

Pastrami!

[emk418]

I would love to see Pastor for an extended period of time.

Chances are Uggla will come back and play everyday regardless of how he does. If that happens I'll be rooting for him. But I'm very happy that Pastor is going to get a 2 week audition.

[thethe]

Chances are Uggla will come back and play everyday regardless of how he does. If that happens I'll be rooting for him. But I'm very happy that Pastor is going to get a 2 week audition.

Two weeks is fine for me. I just want him to get everyday AB's and see how he adjusts

[BlackwaterPark]

I am intrigued by La Stella aslo

[thethe]

Medlen for second base!

[zitothebrave]

Way to go meds.

[Gary82]

Yeah Medlen!!!! 1-0 ATL

[parkvadawg]

Boom!

[mfree80]

Yeah Medlin!

[emk418]

Classic example that things happen when you put the ball in play.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Who needs the DH!

[BlackwaterPark]

I have no dobut Medlan would hit better than Uggla

[TDlxANDER]

I have no dobut Medlan would hit better than Uggla

In his defense...Dan throws a mean slider in the dirt over to 1st base.

[thethe]

Medlen looks like second half 2012 Medlen tonight.

[BlackwaterPark]

Medlen looks like second half 2012 Medlen tonight.

Two starts in a row now!

[The Chosen One]

Nice Dig Augustus
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2i5e9u.jpg

[Gary82]

both Freddie and Mac K. Terrible.

[TURBO]

A bloop bomb

[thethe]

Bloop 2 run homer!

[CrimsonCowboy]

Way to pick them up, CJ!

[BravesBlock]

Is CJ really this good?

[Gary82]

CJ :elefant::emot-siren.gif.17:

[parkvadawg]

Boom

[thethe]

Is CJ really this good?

Enterring his prime. Not out of the realm of possibility he will be better than he has been so far in his career.

[JusticeForAll23]

both Freddie and Mac K. Terrible.
Cut 'em some slack. They're just compensating for not having BJ and Uggla in the lineup.

[thethe]

Damn, Pastor hit that on the screws.

[Gary82]

Enterring his prime. Not out of the realm of possibility he will be better than he has been so far in his career.

He's definitely taken his game to another level. I doubt he'll get any better than he is this season, but he may exhibit more power in his career. From his ESPN interview, the Braves sat him down and told him to stop swinging for the fences. That approach has helped him tremendously.

[Gary82]

Cut 'em some slack. They're just compensating for not having BJ and Uggla in the lineup.

It must be in their contracts.

[thethe]

He's definitely taken his game to another level. I doubt he'll get any better than he is this season, but he may exhibit more power in his career. From his ESPN interview, the Braves sat him down and told him to stop swinging for the fences. That approach has helped him tremendously.

Yeah, a 400+ BABIP is unsustainable but I still think he will be an 800+ OPS guy for the next couple of years.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Seeing old John Smoltz clips................Man could he pitch or what

[thethe]

Seeing old John Smoltz clips................Man could he pitch or what

Slider waited 55 feet before it decided to break. Just amazing he was. Its really a shame he fought so many injuries. Man would have went down as one of the greatest starting pitchers of all time.

[TDlxANDER]

Seeing old John Smoltz clips................Man could he pitch or what

Could T-Rich break tackles?

[Gary82]

I hope Medlen goes on another tear like last year. I don't expect anything near last year's performance, but a tear, nonetheless.

[CrimsonCowboy]

OT: Gio Gonzalez and Jayson Werth had a heated exchange in the Nats dugout this evening (gif taken from Hardball Talk):
http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/pfycm2b.gif?w=375&h=214

[thethe]

I hope Medlen goes on another tear like last year. I don't expect anything near last year's performance, but a tear, nonetheless.

When he has command of his changeup he is a different pitcher.

[Gary82]

Could T-Rich break tackles?

Does the Pope **** in the woods?

[Gary82]

OT: Gio Gonzalez and Jayson Werth had a heated exchange in the Nats dugout this evening (gif taken from Hardball Talk):
http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/pfycm2b.gif?w=375&h=214

What is that all about?

[CrimsonCowboy]

Could T-Rich break tackles?

He was rather decent at that

[zitothebrave]

OT: Gio Gonzalez and Jayson Werth had a heated exchange in the Nats dugout this evening (gif taken from Hardball Talk):
http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/pfycm2b.gif?w=375&h=214

I'd bet on grizzly adams, especially since Gio is off the juice now.

[TDlxANDER]

Does the Pope **** in the woods?

If he doesn't, he should

[emk418]

Is CJ really this good?

He was always a highly regarded prospect but has taken some time. I don't think the average is real but he also has more power then he's showed.

[zitothebrave]

Walked Medlen on 4 pitches lulz

[CrimsonCowboy]

What is that all about?

Not sure. Story from Hardball Talk is Gonzalez was slow to cove first on what would have been a DP.

[Gary82]

Not sure. Story from Hardball Talk is Gonzalez was slow to cove first on what would have been a DP.

Brisbee says it could be Werth's "effort" to get to a bouncer down the line.

http://www.baseballnation.com/hot-corner/2013/8/13/4619236/gio-gonzalez-jayson-werth-argument-gif

that was a piss poor throw by Werth.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Brisbee says it could be Werth's "effort" to get to a bouncer down the line.

http://www.baseballnation.com/hot-corner/2013/8/13/4619236/gio-gonzalez-jayson-werth-argument-gif



That makes sense.

[zitothebrave]

He was always a highly regarded prospect but has taken some time. I don't think the average is real but he also has more power then he's showed.

Never made the BA top 100, graded a C in 2010 by Sickels peaked rating at C+ in 2009, showed up in 2009 on the Astros top 10 at number 5 didn't show up in 2010. Was a 4th round pick.

I think the more accurate phrase is "he once was a prospect"

[emk418]

Never made the BA top 100, graded a C in 2010 by Sickels peaked rating at C+ in 2009, showed up in 2009 on the Astros top 10 at number 5 didn't show up in 2010. Was a 4th round pick.

I think the more accurate phrase is "he once was a prospect"

The Astros always considered him a very good prospect and thought he was their long term answer at 3B. Just because he didn't make BA top 100 doesn't mean he wasn't a highly thought of prospect in their eyes. Was he an "elite" prospect....no....but we all know that failing to make it onto one of those prospects lists means nothing.

[thethe]

I'll take this Medlen in the playoffs please!

[skidlee]

plan and simple is people don't like to be wrong on how they think prospects/players will become

right now CJ is proving a lot of people wrong so they don't like it

What if he is this good?

[Runnin]

Brisbee says it could be Werth's "effort" to get to a bouncer down the line.

http://www.baseballnation.com/hot-corner/2013/8/13/4619236/gio-gonzalez-jayson-werth-argument-gif

that was a piss poor throw by Werth.Could be the first of many if they miss the playoffs.

[Runnin]

You have to really throw some bad pitches to walk Freddie Freeman. He can hit a ball pitched almost anywhere and hates to walk.

[Gary82]

Mac down on three pitches. Damn.

[thethe]

You have to really throw some bad pitches to walk Freddie Freeman. He can hit a ball pitched almost anywhere and hates to walk.

Mac is actually walking at a pretty high clip this year. Highest in his career if I'm not mistaken. All part of his maturity. I think he will be a 400+ OBP guy consistently.

[Lville21]

A rare bad night for Mac so far.

[emk418]

I'll take this Medlen in the playoffs please!

I just never understood the complaints about him. Even his biggest fans knew he wouldn't be as good as last year. At the very least, he's a very good #3 starter and I think he could be better. Just leave him in the rotation and go with Minor, Beachy, Medlen, Teheran, Wood next year.

[bravesnumberone]

Medlen rips a double and gets a walk off this guy, and Mac can't touch him. Oh, baseball.

[goosecreekbrave]

A rare bad night for Mac so far.

Yeah, he is usually a very disciplined hitter.

[skidlee]

I just never understood the complaints about him. Even his biggest fans knew he wouldn't be as good as last year. At the very least, he's a very good #3 starter and I think he could be better. Just leave him in the rotation and go with Minor, Beachy, Medlen, Teheran, Wood next year.

I just think the braves will look to save some coin and trade him. I think its real telling that they were a Hudson injury away from putting Medlen in the pen for the rest of the year.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Nice play, Medlen

[emk418]

I just think the braves will look to save some coin and trade him. I think its real telling that they were a Hudson injury away from putting Medlen in the pen for the rest of the year.

How much is Medlen due to make next year?

[bravesnumberone]

Ugh, bad pitch. Good throw though by Schafer. BJ would not have done that.

[bravesnumberone]

Simmons gonna set the all time record for pop ups. I'm surprised he hasn't been implicated in the PED discussion.

[skidlee]

How much is Medlen due to make next year?

Between 4-6 million.

I would guess closer to 6 then 4.

[DaneHill]

Love Simba's defense obviously, but holy hell, his bat is becoming just as big a black hole as BJ and Uggla. Pop up. Pop up. Pop up. You can tell everyone has the book on him. High fast ball. Can't lay off. Pops up or strikes out. Bleh.

[skidlee]

Kris isn't fooling them anymore

[thethe]

Beathancourt hit another homer tonight. 2 hits in total.

Most important development on the farm this year by far IMO.

[BlackwaterPark]

Relax on Andy. His defense he has produced so far this season is better than any other player as good as him defensively

[jsebe10]

Best change ups of the year right there. goodness

[thethe]

Kris isn't fooling them anymore

Fooled him there! :eusa_dance:

[bravesnumberone]

Medlen tossing up another solid outing. Need to score more runs here. We're in that supposed bad bullpen of theirs.

[parkvadawg]

Love Simba's defense obviously, but holy hell, his bat is becoming just as big a black hole as BJ and Uggla. Pop up. Pop up. Pop up. You can tell everyone has the book on him. High fast ball. Can't lay off. Pops up or strikes out. Bleh.

Simba is great defensively. He has been worse than Uggla all year.

[Gary82]

Seven innings NO walks from Medlen.

[emk418]

Beathancourt hit another homer tonight. 2 hits in total.

Most important development on the farm this year by far IMO.

Such a difficult decision coming with Mac. He's the leader of this team but I'm so nervous locking him up long term. But letting him go would be a huge blow.

[zitothebrave]

Who the hell is Casper Wells

[emk418]

Simba is great defensively. He has been worse than Uggla all year.

That's just not true.

[skidlee]

Fooled him there! :eusa_dance:

Yeah because it was Casper Wells

[parkvadawg]

That's just not true.

How so? He gets on base less and doesn't have the same power.

[emk418]

He'll need a quick inning in the 8th but would love nothing more than to get a CG from Medlen.

[The Chosen One]

How so? He gets on base less and doesn't have the same power.

He's had more clutch hits.

[skidlee]

Such a difficult decision coming with Mac. He's the leader of this team but I'm so nervous locking him up long term. But letting him go would be a huge blow.

I think it would be a very big blow to lose mac.

I don't have much faith is Gattis as an everyday player. I don't think he will suck. He will be solid but where is the production lost from Mac going to come from?

[bravesnumberone]

Yay Heyward. Come on Justin.

[skidlee]

He'll need a quick inning in the 8th but would love nothing more than to get a CG from Medlen.

He will pitch 1 more inning at most

[parkvadawg]

He's had more clutch hits.

Oh yeah. Crap forgot

[thethe]

I think it would be a very big blow to lose mac.

I don't have much faith is Gattis as an everyday player. I don't think he will suck. He will be solid but where is the production lost from Mac going to come from?

Hopefully teh continuing development from Freeman/Heyward. I believe Gattis will get better as well. I'd rather keep Mac at this point but unless he is going to take severly under his market value he won't be back.

[thethe]

Yeah because it was Casper Wells

Just messing wit ya!

[bravesnumberone]

Don't have all the stats in front of me. Simmons has been pretty bad, but Uggla and BJ are in suck categories of their own. Yeah, Uggla has homers and walks, but my God, how many have those have actually had a crucial impact on the outcome of a game? When they're all healthy, the bottom three in the order has got to step it up.

[Gary82]

Heyward is incredibly hot.

[parkvadawg]

So hot right now

[skidlee]

Hopefully teh continuing development from Freeman/Heyward. I believe Gattis will get better as well. I'd rather keep Mac at this point but unless he is going to take severly under his market value he won't be back.


I agree that Mac and Hewyard will continue to develop but that alone isn't enough. As of now this would be the lineup

Heyward
JUpton
Freeman
Gattis
CJ
Uggla
BJ
Simmons

Sorry but that lineup sucks.

I think Mac will sign a 4 year 48 mill deal to stay in ATL. And I think ATL would be happy to offer it.

[parkvadawg]

Don't have all the stats in front of me. Simmons has been pretty bad, but Uggla and BJ are in suck categories of their own. Yeah, Uggla has homers and walks, but my God, how many have those have actually had a crucial impact on the outcome of a game? When they're all healthy, the bottom three in the order has got to step it up.

BJ 100% agreed. Uggla has been bad, however better than Simba with the bat. Being that Simba has saved 100000000000 runs, I don't care

[thethe]

Freeman is so damn good.

I can't understand why some wouldn't think he could get even better than this.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Brian not having the greatest night in his career

[The Chosen One]

Oh yeah. Crap forgot

That has to count for something.

Does Dan have any GW hits this year or Go Ahead hits this year?

I can name two off the top of my head against St. Louis and Colorado for Andrelton.

A lot of Uggla's homeruns in my memory bank this year have been in blow out games we were already winning with a comfortable lead, or down by a lot.

[thethe]

I agree that Mac and Hewyard will continue to develop but that alone isn't enough. As of now this would be the lineup

Heyward
JUpton
Freeman
Gattis
CJ
Uggla
BJ
Simmons

Sorry but that lineup sucks.

I think Mac will sign a 4 year 48 mill deal to stay in ATL. And I think ATL would be happy to offer it.

If Mac accepts that deal all of Brave nation will rejoice.

Its unfortunate but Wren seems to have made a big mistake with BJ. Who knows if Justin forces his way here but man that BJ deal looks horrid.

[parkvadawg]

At least he didn't strike out

[bravesnumberone]

Damnit McCann, how did we not score there? This game should not be close.

[striker42]

First pitch swinging DP with the bases loaded. That's a cardinal sin. B-Mac's having a terrible night.

[emk418]

I agree that Mac and Hewyard will continue to develop but that alone isn't enough. As of now this would be the lineup

Heyward
JUpton
Freeman
Gattis
CJ
Uggla
BJ
Simmons

Sorry but that lineup sucks.

I think Mac will sign a 4 year 48 mill deal to stay in ATL. And I think ATL would be happy to offer it.

Justin is not hitting 2nd for us long term. He'll be in the middle of the order.

[bravesnumberone]

First pitch swinging DP with the bases loaded. That's a cardinal sin. B-Mac's having a terrible night.

You'd think an 8-year vet would know a little better.

[skidlee]

Justin is not hitting 2nd for us long term. He'll be in the middle of the order.


Still doesn't matter

We have 3 major league above avg hitters and the rest are HUGE ? marks for next season.

[parkvadawg]

That has to count for something.

Does Dan have any GW hits this year or Go Ahead hits this year?

I can name two off the top of my head against St. Louis and Colorado for Andrelton.

A lot of Uggla's homeruns in my memory bank this year have been in blow out games we were already winning with a comfortable lead, or down by a lot.

SAV, you remember Simmons BC they were recent. I assure you all of Dan's 21 HRs were not in blowouts

[bravesnumberone]

Freaking leadoff walks.

[skidlee]

take him out Fredi

[skidlee]

Caratini 1-1 2B RBI 2BB tonight

[TURBO]

Nice play

[stpeteirish]

Brian not having the greatest night in his career

seven men left on base

[zitothebrave]

Justin is not hitting 2nd for us long term. He'll be in the middle of the order.

only if the Braves get a leadoff hitter.

[thethe]

Jordan can play some CF.

[bravesnumberone]

Wow, Joe calling Schafer best OF on the team.

[thethe]

Caratini 1-1 2B RBI 2BB tonight

Just a great start to his career. Needs to be in Rome right now.

[bravesnumberone]

David freaking Carpenter getting it done again.

[thethe]

only if the Braves get a leadoff hitter.

I think they should see if BJ can play second base at all. Jordan can potentially be a leadoff guy if there are no other options.

[thethe]

David freaking Carpenter getting it done again.

Wren's best attribute is building a bullpen.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Braves defense showing love with the glove that inning

[parkvadawg]

Carpenter!

[The Chosen One]

SAV, you remember Simmons BC they were recent. I assure you all of Dan's 21 HRs were not in blowouts

Ok. One of Dan's HR's was opening day in a close game.

[stpeteirish]

that pretty much seals it. Walden goes down but Carpenter steps up. Nice.

[The Chosen One]

And either way, I've seen Andrelton singlehandedly save a game twice in the last two weeks defensively, that's probably worth more than any of Uggla's non-factor homeruns.

[skidlee]

I think they should see if BJ can play second base at all. Jordan can potentially be a leadoff guy if there are no other options.

Never going to happen.

[parkvadawg]

Ok. One of Dan's HR's was opening day in a close game.

Seem to remember him Carrying us in LA as well. Either way Dan has sucked, I don't like defending him

[striker42]

I don't know what clicked in Carpenter, but I wonder if he could teach it to Varvaro.

[emk418]

I don't know what clicked in Carpenter, but I wonder if he could teach it to Varvaro.

What's wrong with Varvaro? He's nothing great but he's a solid 6th or 7th arm in the pen.

[bravesnumberone]

Sigh. Alright Kimbrel, get it done.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Lets see some nastiness Craig

[stpeteirish]

seems like, as bad as it it is, the Phillie's bullpen owns us.But their usually not protecting a lead.

[The Chosen One]

So I just went through all of Dan's homers:

1 -O pening Day 7-5 win, good.
2 - vs. Cubs, hits a solo shot in a 4-1 game to make it 5-1.
3- vs. Royals, hits a solo shot to make it 5-2 game.
4 - @ Colorado, hits a homerun in a 4-3 game, good.
5,6 - @ Detroit in the series we got swept in. Both games we lost by 4+ runs.
7 - vs. Washington, solo shot in a 3-1 loss.
8-9 vs. Cinncy, two shots in a big win, give him that.
10 vs. Minn, solo shot in a 5-1 win.
11 @ Mets, solo shot, good.
12 @ Mets, homered in a 4-2 loss.
13 vs. Dodgers, homered in a 2-1 win, great.
14,15 vs. Dodgers, homeredt twice in 8-1 win.
16 vs. Ari , in a 6-2 win.
17-18 vs. Philly in a 5-4 loss and a 13-4 win.
19 vs. Cinncy in a 5-2 win.
20 vs. Cincy, solo shot losing 8-3 to make it 8-4.
21 vs. NYM in a 8-3 win.
22 vs. NYM in 7-4 loss.

I don't care how many homeruns he's hit, only a few of his homers have been in a close game that could've altered the game.

Andrelton's defense has probably saved more games than those handful of homers he's hit that actually matttered. Andrelton's relay throw in Washington alone was the difference in that game.

[bravesnumberone]

Ugh. Cmon Kimbrel.

[bravesnumberone]

Alright, one more. Keep it down.

[TURBO]

WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON WE WON

[bravesnumberone]

Good win. Let's go get the series tomorrow.

[CrimsonCowboy]

http://i.imgur.com/P6x0U.gif

[Gary82]

9 pitch save by Kimbrel.

[parkvadawg]

So I just went through all of Dan's homers:

1 -O pening Day 7-5 win, good.
2 - vs. Cubs, hits a solo shot in a 4-1 game to make it 5-1.
3- vs. Royals, hits a solo shot to make it 5-2 game.
4 - @ Colorado, hits a homerun in a 4-3 game, good.
5,6 - @ Detroit in the series we got swept in. Both games we lost by 4+ runs.
7 - vs. Washington, solo shot in a 3-1 loss.
8-9 vs. Cinncy, two shots in a big win, give him that.
10 vs. Minn, solo shot in a 5-1 win.
11 @ Mets, solo shot, good.
12 @ Mets, homered in a 4-2 loss.
13 vs. Dodgers, homered in a 2-1 win, great.
14,15 vs. Dodgers, homeredt twice in 8-1 win.
16 vs. Ari , in a 6-2 win.
17-18 vs. Philly in a 5-4 loss and a 13-4 win.
19 vs. Cinncy in a 5-2 win.
20 vs. Cincy, solo shot losing 8-3 to make it 8-4.
21 vs. NYM in a 8-3 win.
22 vs. NYM in 7-4 loss.

I don't care how many homeruns he's hit, only a few of his homers have been in a close game that could've altered the game.

Andrelton's defense has probably saved more games than those handful of homers he's hit that actually matttered. Andrelton's relay throw in Washington alone was the difference in that game.

Not sure what you are arguing. Never said Simba wasn't the better player. That is more than a few as his homeruns has helped make them blowouts. I'm simply saying Uggla has been better at the plate. Which he has.

[skidlee]

Whats the pitching match up for tomorrow?

[bravesnumberone]

Lannan/Beachy

[skidlee]

oh good Lannan

[nsacpi]

Whats the pitching match up for tomorrow?

Lannan-Beachy

[zitothebrave]

Lannan-Beachy

AKA we gon lose.

[zitothebrave]

I think they should see if BJ can play second base at all. Jordan can potentially be a leadoff guy if there are no other options.

Having watched BJ at SS, I don't want him to play 2B.

[buck7580]

Not sure what you are arguing. Never said Simba wasn't the better player. That is more than a few as his homeruns has helped make them blowouts. I'm simply saying Uggla has been better at the plate. Which he has.

Don't see how you could really mean that Uggla has been better than Simmons at the plate

[JCarbo76]

Don't see how you could really mean that Uggla has been better than Simmons at the plate

Well he gets on base more often and hits for more power, for starters.

[zitothebrave]

Well he gets on base more often and hits for more power, for starters.

Yeah anyone thinking Uggla is worse than Simmons should look at the numbers.

22 point OBP and 30 point slugging advantage.

[thethe]

Caratini was 1-1 today with a double and FOUR!!!! walks.

[parkvadawg]

Don't see how you could really mean that Uggla has been better than Simmons at the plate

Pretty simple. Gets on base more and slugs more. Scores more runs, drives more in.

[weso1]

Nats won. They've been playing well winning 4 in a row. Bad news for them though is that they are 14 games out even though they've been playing well lately.

[cajunrevenge]

I am just glad that now that we have put them away we arent getting the "We are doomed the Nats are about to go on a roll" posts that happened every time they won 2 games in a row.

[Bdawg2309]

http://i.imgur.com/9xinrJn.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2827/9505138828_ac6bda2daa_o.gif



also, it really annoys me how he wears his cap...

[Gary82]

Well, that's gross.

[The Chosen One]

Forget those few percentage points. If you wanna talk numbers, who's more efficient in terms of salary? Andrelton at league minimum or Uggla at 15 million?

Andrelton's streaks are spread out more than Uggla and BJ who are either really hot or really cold. And even then we're talking 3-4 games.

Uggs may have a better slugging percentage (easily because of power), but his average with RISP is awful and I don't even want to check the numbers but he and BJ have k'd so much in pressure situations that I have more faith in Andrelton than either.

Those filler walks and homers Uggla hits do not make him a better hitter IMO. No different than someone post padding here and bragging about their post count. Results speak louder. Uggla on paper may be better but this is one of those times where it's more than meets the eye.

[Nerfherders]

Nats won. They've been playing well winning 4 in a row. Bad news for them though is that they are 14 games out even though they've been playing well lately.

Yeah outside of the series against the Braves, they are 9-3. Not that I am worried or anything.

[buck7580]

Forget those few percentage points. If you wanna talk numbers, who's more efficient in terms of salary? Andrelton at league minimum or Uggla at 15 million?

Andrelton's streaks are spread out more than Uggla and BJ who are either really hot or really cold. And even then we're talking 3-4 games.

Uggs may have a better slugging percentage (easily because of power), but his average with RISP is awful and I don't even want to check the numbers but he and BJ have k'd so much in pressure situations that I have more faith in Andrelton than either.

Those filler walks and homers Uggla hits do not make him a better hitter IMO. No different than someone post padding here and bragging about their post count. Results speak louder. Uggla on paper may be better but this is one of those times where it's more than meets the eye.

This makes sense to me. But I hope that Simmons quits popping up and Dan can put the ball in play more often when he returns from DL.

[Russ2dollas]

Simmons falling into the LH box on his swing. Braves need to have the CJ talk with Simmons. They don't need him to hit HRs. He has enough power that if someone makes a mistake he can hit it out by accident.

I think he could put up Prado type numbers if he embraces being a line drive hitter. Probably a tic below Prado, but in the same area.

[Dunit24]

Nats won. They've been playing well winning 4 in a row. Bad news for them though is that they are 14 games out even though they've been playing well lately.

They still have a shot at one of the wild card spots, but it was annoying seeing the media and some on here get worried every time that team won a few games in a row. If they go on a 10 game winning streak, it wouldnt surprise me. I doubt it happens though.

[50PoundHead]

All good points on the Uggla versus Simmons debate, but as the venerable Mr. Lockhart points out, salary has to be taken into account here. Uggla has turned into Jack Cust (who also had great years and suddenly fell off the table) and that's what he's probably going to remain and Jack Cust never came close to an 8-figure deal. Athletic guys who never learn skills languish in the minors. Unathletic skills-driven guys often see steep performance nosedives and I contend that's what we're seeing with Uggla. And whoever in this thread said that bat speed is relatively unimportant needs to watch the game more closely. I still contend that is Francoeur's largest problem (although swinging at EVERYTHING doesn't help) is that his problems really began when pitchers figured out the could get him out with inside fastballs as well as making him chase crap outside the strike zone. I don't know if it's his eyes or his bat speed, but if Uggla loses a tick of bat speed, he's done. If anything, the rest he'll get on the DL may help him more than the LASIK surgery.

Simmons is going to be an average-driven guy and I don't like his hitting fundamentals. He's all arms right now. Rangy guy (like Francoeur) who tends to dip and reach, which is never good. His glove will carry him, but it's obvious he's a great athlete and he should spend some time getting some serious instruction during the off-season.

[JCarbo76]

Forget those few percentage points. If you wanna talk numbers, who's more efficient in terms of salary? Andrelton at league minimum or Uggla at 15 million?

Andrelton's streaks are spread out more than Uggla and BJ who are either really hot or really cold. And even then we're talking 3-4 games.

Uggs may have a better slugging percentage (easily because of power), but his average with RISP is awful and I don't even want to check the numbers but he and BJ have k'd so much in pressure situations that I have more faith in Andrelton than either.

Those filler walks and homers Uggla hits do not make him a better hitter IMO. No different than someone post padding here and bragging about their post count. Results speak louder. Uggla on paper may be better but this is one of those times where it's more than meets the eye.

You are correct about one thing, the results speak louder than words.

With RISP Simmons makes outs 75% of the time, Uggla makes outs 71.7% of the time. Simmons has 108 ABs with RISP with 24 RBI which is a ratio of .222. Uggla has 31 RBI in only 85 ABS with RISP, a ratio of .364.

The walks and homers do absolutely make him a better offensive player than Simmons, any way you add it up.

[50PoundHead]

Nats won. They've been playing well winning 4 in a row. Bad news for them though is that they are 14 games out even though they've been playing well lately.

They may go on a streak. They've got some players and the top 3 in their rotation are tough. We just need to take care of business on our end. It's like playing bar pool. Hit the shots you're supposed to and get lucky once and a while and you'll make some cash (which I never did).

Charlie Manuel is a true hillbilly. They used to make a big deal out of it when he played up here in Minnesota in the late-60s/early-70s. I know a hillbilly when I see one because even though we don't have hillbillies in Minnesota, we do have a similar redneck breed, of which my extended family was pretty firmly ensconced.

[The Chosen One]

We're paying Uggla to be a power slugger.

We're paying Andrelton more so to be an amazing defender who might learn how to hit.

Andrelton's defense makes up AND some for his sub-par hitting. Uggla's offense does not even out his terrible atrocious defensive liabilities.


I am by no means an anti-stathead, and I'm sure not a boy Scout, but the problem I find with relying heavily on statistics sometimes, is that we have to remember the statistics are just looking for a common denominator with neutrality and average. Upton has 22 homers this season. We've played 4.5 months, so statistically he's hitting 4.8 hr/month. When we all know damn well here that Justin was terrible for 3 months, and dominant for 1.5.

Uggla's production has been in very very short spurts. His walks are nice, but we're not exactly paying him to walk, we're paying him to slug and slug. His OBP isn't why we hired him. Uggla the last month has been terrible.

With runners on, would you rather take the chance Uggla strikes out (very likely), or Andrelton makes contact and pops it up far enough to sac fly? I don't know the statistics, but if the gap between Uggla striking out with runners on, and Andrelton making contact in that situation is +-5%, I still take Andrelton.

You're defending the fact that Uggla makes outs 4.3% of the time less than Andrelton with RISP. Is 4.3% really that significant? And watching this season, would you rather take the chance Uggla K's, or Andrelton makes contact and potentially could fly out?

[50PoundHead]

This is really an eye-ball perspective from me, but when I watch the decline of a player (and walk and HRs aside, there's no doubt Uggla is heading South), I always try to surmise "Is the pitcher afraid to pitch to this guy?" When you see that fear subside, you'll know that the other side has recognized something and is going to exploit it. I think we all saw this happen to Andruw Jones and it's not pretty. We're seeing the same thing happen now in a much more compressed time frame with Uggla.

I have no problem with the stats movement (until it gets into multiple regression analysis), but the game is still played in real space in real time and teams scout their opponents incessantly. They watch the game as it is being played and see what is happening with players. Over time, they spot strengths and weaknesses and try to exploit identified weaknesses. That makes adjustments necessary and right now, it's pretty obvious that Uggla can't make those adjustments. Eyes? Bat speed? Who cares? The inability to consistently put the ball in play with authority speaks for itself.

Don't take this as an endorsement of Simmons' approach at the plate. He's going to have to make adjustments as well.

[JCarbo76]

We're paying Uggla to be a power slugger.

We're paying Andrelton more so to be an amazing defender who might learn how to hit.

Andrelton's defense makes up AND some for his sub-par hitting. Uggla's offense does not even out his terrible atrocious defensive liabilities.


I am by no means an anti-stathead, and I'm sure not a boy Scout, but the problem I find with relying heavily on statistics sometimes, is that we have to remember the statistics are just looking for a common denominator with neutrality and average. Upton has 22 homers this season. We've played 4.5 months, so statistically he's hitting 4.8 hr/month. When we all know damn well here that Justin was terrible for 3 months, and dominant for 1.5.

Uggla's production has been in very very short spurts. His walks are nice, but we're not exactly paying him to walk, we're paying him to slug and slug. His OBP isn't why we hired him. Uggla the last month has been terrible.

With runners on, would you rather take the chance Uggla strikes out (very likely), or Andrelton makes contact and pops it up far enough to sac fly? I don't know the statistics, but if the gap between Uggla striking out with runners on, and Andrelton making contact in that situation is +-5%, I still take Andrelton.

You're defending the fact that Uggla makes outs 4.3% of the time less than Andrelton with RISP. Is 4.3% really that significant? And watching this season, would you rather take the chance Uggla K's, or Andrelton makes contact and potentially could fly out?

Is a 4.3% difference in outs made significant? In baseball, hell yeah it's significant. Is the difference in a .300 On base percentage and a .343 on base percentage, for example, significant? The difference in those numbers is that the guy with the .300 OBP makes outs 4.3% more often than the guy who has a .343 OBP.

Baseball is about runs--not hits. In any context you want to imagine Dan Uggla, despite a HORRIBLE batting average, produces more runs offensively than Andrelton Simmons, which is what this discussion is about--not salary or defense, both of which make Simmons more valuable to the team.

And yeah we did sign Uggla to the big contract to hit homers--and he has done so pretty dang well this year, to the tune of being 7th in the league in homers at the time he went on the DL.

[NinersSBChamps]

I think the Nats will make a run, but as long as the Braves win like we are supposed to its our division at the end. I'd say we hold them off and win the east with a 9 game margin.

[Heyward]

I think the Nats will make a run, but as long as the Braves win like we are supposed to its our division at the end. I'd say we hold them off and win the east with a 9 game margin.

If we only won 20 games the rest of the way, they would have to only lose 9 games from here on out to top us. I agree they will make a run but the margin for error is just so so small.

[parkvadawg]

I not sure anyone ( at least me) is saying Dan is playing to his contact because he's not. Of course Simba is more valuable because his D is legendary. Dan is just having a better year at the plate. Unfortunately, both are having poor years offensively

[The Chosen One]

If we're talking about offensive potential to compare who's been the better hitter, I'd say Andrelton has hit about 75% of his offensive potential this year.

Uggla besides homeruns and walks has sucked in almost every other category which IMO has hurt the team more than Andrelton's offensive woes.

I have no idea how you can say Uggs is having a better year at the plate than Simmons, when Uggla's entire career has been about belting homeruns and driving in runs which he's not doing (yeah he's 7th in the NL, but seems like sans Chris Davis and a few, there's a bit of a slugging power outage this year).

Would you compare Simmons and Freeman's offensive productions as well? Simmons being a premium defensive position, and Freeman playing an offensive position?

If you compare the numbers head to head, sure Uggla's numbers look better. Does that necessarily mean he's had a better year at the plate than Andrelton? I'm not sold on that.

[emk418]

If we're talking about offensive potential to compare who's been the better hitter, I'd say Andrelton has hit about 75% of his offensive potential this year.

Uggla besides homeruns and walks has sucked in almost every other category which IMO has hurt the team more than Andrelton's offensive woes.

I have no idea how you can say Uggs is having a better year at the plate than Simmons, when Uggla's entire career has been about belting homeruns and driving in runs which he's not doing (yeah he's 7th in the NL, but seems like sans Chris Davis and a few, there's a bit of a slugging power outage this year).

Would you compare Simmons and Freeman's offensive productions as well? Simmons being a premium defensive position, and Freeman playing an offensive position?

If you compare the numbers head to head, sure Uggla's numbers look better. Does that necessarily mean he's had a better year at the plate than Andrelton? I'm not sold on that.

We shouldn't forget that Uggla is in a steep 3 year decline. Simmons is still so young and has so little professional experience hitting that struggling in his first full season is expected.

[Heyward]

Simmons is in the top 3 or 4 in hits.

At 112 or so, he's been ok offensively.

[gilesfan]

Simmons is in the top 3 or 4 in hits.

At 112 or so, he's been ok offensively.

He has hits bc he has :

A) Plenty of PAs
B) PAs without walks

Awful stat to use to judge whether they've been ok offensively or not.

[BRule]

But how many MULTI.HIT.GAMES does he have?

[The Chosen One]

He has hits bc he has :

A) Plenty of PAs
B) PAs without walks

Awful stat to use to judge whether they've been ok offensively or not.

Just imagine how bad Uggla's numbers would be if he had more PA.

[sturg33]

Simmons has been extremely bad at the plate.

Uggla has been really bad, but better than Simmons.

Arguing otherwise is silly.

Obviously, Simmons is the superior defender and much more valuable player, but he is certainly a terrible hitter this year

[JCarbo76]

If we're talking about offensive potential to compare who's been the better hitter, I'd say Andrelton has hit about 75% of his offensive potential this year.

Uggla besides homeruns and walks has sucked in almost every other category which IMO has hurt the team more than Andrelton's offensive woes. "Except for that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play". The ONLY thing Simmons has done better offensively than Uggla this year is hit for a better average, which is currently .239. Simmons hits for a little power, but very rarely walks. Here's why walks are important: They aren't an out. They put runners on base, from where they can score. Simmons makes more outs than Uggla does. Outs=bad. Baserunners=good. .

I have no idea how you can say Uggs is having a better year at the plate than Simmons, when Uggla's entire career has been about belting homeruns and driving in runs which he's not doing (yeah he's 7th in the NL, but seems like sans Chris Davis and a few, there's a bit of a slugging power outage this year). It's simple, really, because Uggla has produced more runs than Simmons has, and runs win games--not batting average. And if power numbers are being suppressed this year for everyone else, they have been suppressed for Uggla, too. And he is still 7th in the league in homers, no matter how you spin it

Would you compare Simmons and Freeman's offensive productions as well? Simmons being a premium defensive position, and Freeman playing an offensive position? Maybe not, but both Uggla and Simmons are middle infielders.

If you compare the numbers head to head, sure Uggla's numbers look better. Does that necessarily mean he's had a better year at the plate than Andrelton? I'm not sold on that. What, then, describes a better offensive year, if not which player produces more runs

xx