GDT: 5/3 Braves @ Mets

[bravesfanforlife88]

Markakis RF
Castro 3b
Freeman 1b
Garcia LF
AJP C
Brignac 2B
Aybar SS
Folty P
Smith CF

[The Chosen One]

Poor Folty. Builds his confidence up only to have to get AJP catch him in his first start.

[nsacpi]

Expecting a yuge game from Reid Brignac

[bravesfanMatt]

Poor Folty. Builds his confidence up only to have to get AJP catch him in his first start.

this just kills me.. I only got to watch about 4 innings yesterday.. but in two different innings Flowers easily stole a strike with framing. Do you know how different an inning can be if the leadoff guy or even the 2nd batter is looking at a 2-1 pitch vs a 1-2 pitch. not in every case but it could escalate for sure.. and for a guy like Folty who has no room for error.. two or three extra strikes a game would be Yuge!!!

[The Chosen One]

this just kills me.. I only got to watch about 4 innings yesterday.. but in two different innings Flowers easily stole a strike with framing. Do you know how different an inning can be if the leadoff guy or even the 2nd batter is looking at a 2-1 pitch vs a 1-2 pitch. not in every case but it could escalate for sure.. and for a guy like Folty who has no room for error.. two or three extra strikes a game would be Yuge!!!

I miss McCann a bunch because of his outstanding pitch framing. Don't think it's any coincidence our pitching sucked after he left.

Also they didn't keep track of pitch framing back then but Eddie Perez definitely framed better than Javy and I wonder if Maddux knew this and was part of the reason he preferred Eddie.

[CyYoung31]

Fredi already has the lineup made out for tomorrow's game? Hopefully, so his replacement has one less thing to do.

[cajunrevenge]

If this season is getting you down just remembe the Yankees only have 2 more wins than us. Atleast we were trying to suck. The Yankees spent 225 million to be a last place team that hasnt even reached double digit wins after the first month.

[The Chosen One]

If this season is getting you down just remembe the Yankees only have 2 more wins than us. Atleast we were trying to suck. The Yankees spent 225 million to be a last place team that hasnt even reached double digit wins after the first month.

And if we just had another arm or actual everyday starter and if Freeman didn't suck for almost an entire month we'd be in business.

[DaneHill]

If this season is getting you down just remembe the Yankees only have 2 more wins than us. Atleast we were trying to suck. The Yankees spent 225 million to be a last place team that hasnt even reached double digit wins after the first month.

Noted that over the weekend as well and was surprised. Houston too. Boy, those fan bases must be in shock. At least we were expecting to be bad.

[Enscheff]

Know how to tell if your team sucks? Your #2 hitter has a .260 OBP.

[Ozzie Swanson]

Love Folty's potential but damn he gives up a ton of home runs.

[CrimsonCowboy]

That was a bomb by Wright

[WaitingFor2017]

Tyler could've stolen one of those balls Folty threw and struck out Wright.

[USMA76]

David Wright welcomes Folty back to the majors...smh.

[Braves1976]

Folty is still Folty, cannot control where the big fastballs go and cannot throw for strikes enough. Then when he falls behind he backs off and they hammer him.

[msstate7]

Same ol' folty

[USMA76]

Folty is still Folty, cannot control where the big fastballs go and cannot throw for strike enough. Then when he falls behind he backs off and they hammer him.

As you said earlier, a million dollar arm with a 10 cent brain. So far, that appears to not have changed.

[Braves1976]

Homerun derby for the Mets...

[WaitingFor2017]

Yikes.

[Ozzie Swanson]

Those were both crushed.

[USMA76]

I remember a Sunday in New York a couple of years ago when Folty gave up three home runs in an inning. Deja vu.

[msstate7]

Folty will never be a key piece of our rotation going forward

[WaitingFor2017]

Who knows.... Maybe a sweep by the Mets of large proportions will be Fredi's death knell. If so, Go Mets Go.

[CrimsonCowboy]

That was a bomb by Cespedes.

[Braves1976]

As you said earlier, a million dollar arm with a 10 cent brain. So far, that appears to not have changed.

Gov said that first btw, I just agreed with him and Houston folks who told me the same after the trade. I still don't get all the hype for him going forward. He's who I wanted to keep in minors and trade before every team realize he's going to be no more than a bullpen arm or total bust.

The more Folty gets hammered in the Majors the less chance we can sell him to another team later. The way tonight is going his trade value is dying by the min, damn.

[blueagleace1]

Bullpen.

[msstate7]

Those were both crushed.

The single was crushed too

[jsebe10]

Folty will never be a key piece of our rotation going forward

Thank you! Just a MFer that throws hard. Dime a dozen man...send his @$$ back to the Triple AAA

[bravesfanMatt]

I would still like to see Folty pitch to someone other than AJP.. just to see...

[Ozzie Swanson]

Haha Folty must have nightmares about Citi Field.

[CrimsonCowboy]

That was a bomb by Duda

[UNCBlue012]

Lol Folty is a dingus.

[WaitingFor2017]

Welp, I've seen enough...but with the state of the pen, just leave Folty out there for 100 pitches -- which all may come in the 1st inning.

[mossy]

Ooof. Not good.

But it helps with the goal of a first round pick I guess.

[USMA76]

There's the three home runs in an inning I was talking about, just in the first inning this time. Nothing's changed with Folty and I was a fool to think it had.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Lol bud Norris in pen warming up. Just like a start!

[Ozzie Swanson]

Don't worry everyone... BUD NORRIS is here to save us.

[Russ2dollas]

Folty has to give up the most hr per pitch in mlb history

[WaitingFor2017]

There's the three home runs in an inning I was talking about, just in the first inning this time. Nothing's changed with Folty and I was a fool to think it had.

When Folty gave up the 3 in an inning last year, Atlanta had an 8-3 lead around the 6th inning and lost.

[USMA76]

When does batting practice end and the game start?

[msstate7]

Just go get him... I'm embarrassed for him. Just tell him to get a shower and go straight to the airport.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Hector olivera makes that play :YDS:

[USMA76]

When Folty gave up the 3 in an inning last year, Atlanta had an 8-3 lead around the 6th inning and lost.

Oh, I remember it well. I also remember all the stuff I threw at my TV that day.

[Braves1976]

Just remember I have been saying to sell high on Folty almost ever since we got him (nsacpi knows from my PM's I've never been sold on Folty). We have waited too late for that now I'm afraid.

[jsebe10]

Just go get him... I'm embarrassed for him. Just tell him to get a shower and go straight to the airport.

ESPN is flipping their clits watching this.

[Garmel]

Folty is still Folty, cannot control where the big fastballs go and cannot throw for strikes enough. Then when he falls behind he backs off and they hammer him.

Yep. A lot of people want to see him moved to the bullpen. Guess what? He's going to suck there too.

[msstate7]

Just remember I have been saying to sell high on Folty almost ever since we got him (nsacpi knows from my PM's I've never been sold on Folty). We have waited too late for that now I'm afraid.

Maybe we can package him with Olivera for a top prospect haha

[jsebe10]

Just remember I have been saying to sell high on Folty almost ever since we got him (nsacpi knows from my PM's I've never been sold on Folty). We have waited too late for that now I'm afraid.

So because you were never sold on him that's supposed to make things ok?

[USMA76]

Yep. A lot of people want to see him moved to the bullpen. Guess what? He's going to suck there too.

Yep. He'll get hammered in the 8th inning the same way he gets hammered in the 1st (or 2nd or 3rd...)

[The Chosen One]

I'd like to see Folty pitch with a real catcher calling the game.

[Braves1976]

Yep. A lot of people want to see him moved to the bullpen. Guess what? He's going to suck there too.

Yep.

[dak]

I'd like to see Folty pitch with a real catcher calling the game.

Came in here to post this. Was just dumbfounded he kept calling for the 4 seam fastball over, and over, and over, and over. He was leaving it up over the middle of the plate. Consistently.

[Braves1976]

So because you were never sold on him that's supposed to make things ok?

No, I was saying that because some around here act like the FO knows all and that us fans cannot be good at scouting regardless our track record.

[Braves1976]

Came in her to post this. Was just dumbfounded he kept calling for the 4 seam fastball over, and over, and over, and over. He was leaving it up over the middle of the plate. Consistently.

AJP will make anyone look worse, no doubt about that. But Folty has too many of his own issues too.

[WaitingFor2017]

I can't stand a pitcher sacrificing on a 1st-3rd situation with 1 out. I'd rather take my chances that the pitcher can get a fly ball at the very least. I know a double play and strikeout are possibilities, but I feel like the bunt just ends the inning.

[Braves1976]

Does AJP double buy him another week? LOL! Gimme me a poor hitting catcher that can catch any day over him...

[bravesfanMatt]

AJP will make anyone look worse, no doubt about that. But Folty has too many of his own issues too.

one pitch can change an inning.. I am not saying Folty needs to get it right in his head.. but the 2 -2 to Wright was right there.. Flowers would have stolen that pitch.. 2 out none on and it might have been a different board right now.. He also threw a nasty curve to Curtis and then threw it two other times.. REALLY

[Deester11]

I gave a small scouting report on him and it's exactly what kills him. Secondary pitches suck enough they can swing fastball all day!!!!

[USMA76]

Granderson is oh-for-two against Folty tonight. He must feel like a bastard at a family reunion.

[Braves1976]

I gave a small scouting report on him and it's exactly what kills him. Secondary pitches suck enough they can swing fastball all day!!!!

Yea and for all the talk that he isn't max effort, he has to back off to low to mid 90's to control his fastball and it's still very straight IMO.

[msstate7]

Man, I wish we had a conforto in our system

[msstate7]

Good bounce back, folty

[Deester11]

Yea and for all the talk that he isn't max effort, he has to back off to low to mid 90's to control his fastball and it's still very straight IMO.
Not hating at all. It's true. Good post.

[USMA76]

That 1-2-3 inning lowers Folty's ERA to a tidy 18.00

[dak]

Better mix of pitches in 2nd made a big difference. Still threw a couple of those junky 4 seamers (high), but caught the hitters off-balance.

[bravesfanMatt]

Good bounce back, folty


AJ called a lot more off speed stuff.. he missed three in a row to Wright.. but showed them he is going to throw it.. he should have done that the 1st inning..

he got lucky with a hanger to Cespy on the 1st strike.. but he was taking..

[USMA76]

Nice hit by Castro but I believe he should be primarily a late inning defensive replacement. If he's a regular starter, your team has issues.

[bravesfanMatt]

we are going to have 15 hits and 1 run tonight..

[Braves1976]

Nice hit by Castro but I believe he should be primarily a late inning defensive replacement. If he's a regular starter, your team has issues.

He looks like a good back-up option at short etc, but not a starter most likely. His value is in his defense more than his bat, obviously.

[USMA76]

we are going to have 15 hits and 1 run tonight..

Pretty optimistic on the number of runs given the way we've gone so far.

[Braves1976]

Pretty optimistic on the number of runs given the way we've gone so far.

Nah, he just expects the Garcia stop drop and roll to catch on soon and lead to a few extra runs. :)

[USMA76]

Nah, he just expects the Garcia stop drop and roll to catch on soon and lead to a few extra runs. :)

Given his graceful demeanor in left field, I believe Garcia is with the Atlanta ballet in the offseason.

[dak]

AJP calls for the 4 seamer on an 0-2 count. Shoot me.

[USMA76]

AJP calls for the 4 seamer on an 0-2 count. Shoot me.

Shooting AJ would be the far more profitable option.

[Braves1976]

Chip mentions Smoltz troubles but paints a false picture. Smoltz was an All-Star his first full season and had a 2.98 ERA in 1989 on a bad team. That said, it isn't fair to keep comparing these kids to HOFers nor realistic to expect any of them to turn out as special the way pitchers are used and used up and broken nowadays.

[USMA76]

Colon has thrown 50 pitches and only 9 balls.

[Braves1976]

Colon has thrown 50 pitches and only 9 balls.

Colon doesn't have great stuff, he just knows how to pitch and gets movement on his pitches. We get so caught up in velocity nowadays that if there is another Maddux to be had he might not never get a real shot.

[Braves1976]

Granderson just missed taking that one out. I guess he didn't like being left out earlier.

[USMA76]

Sorry I said anything about Granderson earlier; he's now officially joined the hit parade.

[Braves1976]

Ouch, did that hit the second base bag at hit him right in the face? Oooo...

[bravesfanforlife88]

Reminds me of Stubbs

[USMA76]

Ouch, did that hit the second base bag at hit him right in the face? Oooo...

Hope Brignac's jaw isn't broken.

[Braves1976]

Hope Brignac's jaw isn't broken.

He played that like a goalie but forgot his mask. Nice face save though keeping the ball from the outfield. OK bad joke, seriously I hope his jaw is fine.

[USMA76]

Strikeout pitch of Conforto was the best off-speed pitch Folty's thrown in two years.

[Garmel]

Wow! Folty threw a damn good breaking ball. Where has that been?

[Braves1976]

Conforto chased ball four twice, including that curveball that almost hit him. Folty taken out for our good buddy Norris.

[bravesfanMatt]

Wow! Folty threw a damn good breaking ball. Where has that been?


been there.. just doesn't know how to set it up. I am telling you guys.. I think Folty stuff is there.. he needs a good catcher to help him.. AJ took a 2-2 cutter on Curtis like he was surprised it cut..almost caught it going to Curtis instead of pulling it back to the plate.. 3-2.. another 4 seamer down the middle.. I pray Folty's next opponent is a LHP.. or AJ breaks his leg...

[USMA76]

Mallex Smith will never live down the fact that he lost a footrace to first base to Bartolo Colon. Oh, the humanity.

[USMA76]

The untrained observer might think that Colon botched a bunt by popping it up. The reality is he wanted no part of running to first base again with a four run lead.

[Braves1976]

Norris cannot go more than 2.1 inning on regular rest but Fredi pushes our kids hard on not enough rest? Damn, why not save the bullpen a little more?

[USMA76]

As well as Conforto's been playing, it appears we may have found an Achilles heel with inside breaking pitches.

[Braves1976]

As well as Conforto's been playing, it appears we may have found a chink in his armor with inside breaking pitches.

He also chased high fastballs, he can be overly aggressive but still hitting great overall.

[msstate7]

As well as Conforto's been playing, it appears we may have found a chink in his armor with inside breaking pitches.

He'll take wisler deep on one tomorrow night

[50PoundHead]

Fredi already has the lineup made out for tomorrow's game? Hopefully, so his replacement has one less thing to do.

Back to the future baby! Call the Doc and see if we can get the clock repaired before midnight.

[jsebe10]

Lmao how how can you let that big lipped blob just mowe down your lineup. Lol

[msstate7]

Lmao how how can you let that big lipped blob just mowe down your lineup. Lol

It's a shame we didn't have Perez tonight to balance the scales

[USMA76]

It's a shame we didn't have Perez tonight to balance the scales

They'd have had to reconstruct the mound between innings.

[Braves1976]

Look at this bullcrap, why is Ogando pitching? No reason to keep using him like this. Just let EOF finish it since you were too stupid to let Norris pitch three innings.

[msstate7]

Look at this bullcrap, why is Ogando pitching? No reason to keep using him like this. Just let EOF finish it since you were too stupid to let Norris pitch three innings.

Ogando has to pitch daily

[Braves1976]

Ogando has to pitch daily

Fredi says I may be fired soon but I am taking Ogando and as many arms as I can with me! It's crazy stupid man.

BTW, suffering through watching Fredi all these years makes me want Bud Black as our next manager mostly because he is so good at handling pitchers and uses a bullpen well.

[Runnin]

http://memeguy.com/photos/images/baby-elephant-enjoying-the-beach-65199.gif

[cajunrevenge]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Fl91lKUFYrosg/giphy.gif

[Braves1976]

I was just reading MLBTR about JJ Hardy going down to injury. A Braves fan posted this I'm sure: "chieftoto
Trade for Aybar. Would literally cost them nothing. Probably a lower level prospect like Fenter or Hess. Aybar hits 9th till Hardy comes back then he’s a bench option."

Anyone think the O's would take Aybar and his contract for free aka PTBNL or Cash? If so, we should jump on it and show them that he had two hits tonight. :)

[weso1]

I was just reading MLBTR about JJ Hardy going down to injury. A Braves fan posted this I'm sure: "chieftoto
Trade for Aybar. Would literally cost them nothing. Probably a lower level prospect like Fenter or Hess. Aybar hits 9th till Hardy comes back then he’s a bench option."

Anyone think the O's would take Aybar and his contract for free aka PTBNL or Cash? If so, we should jump on it and show them that he had two hits tonight. :)

It would be a smart move on their part. Chances are that Aybar reverts closer to his norm. Kind of dumb for the Braves to not be starting Aybar at SS everyday to be honest. Castro will never be anything more than a backup SS at the mlb level. Why not keep Aybar in the lineup and hope he regains his value?

[mossy]

One day I'll be able to read a game thread where every other post isn't about dissecting Fredi's decisions.





It will be the exact same except a different manager under scrutiny by the same people.

People questioned Cox all the time. I doubt they remember it now though.

[clvclv]

So Folty and his straight fastball and flat breaking ball is going to be a member of someone's rotation one day? Seriously???

Most dominant AAA SP in a MLB rotation today - thank God we've got him.

The only pitch he has ANY control over is a 95 MPH fastball that splits the plate, and we saw one more time tonight what happens to those when you're not facing AAA level (or lower) hitters. Jose Berrios learned more between start 1 and start 2 than Folty's learned in 3 years. If he ever develops into a starter, please let it be with another organization.



Oh yeah, and fire Fredi for putting him on the mound to begin with. He deserves a 10 year prison sentence for not taking him out after the first two he grooved to Conforto and Cespedes.

[clvclv]

I would still like to see Folty pitch to someone other than AJP.. just to see...

The pitches have to actually GET TO the Catcher first - really makes no difference who's back there when Folty's on the mound at this level. Can't frame it when it's going the other way over the fence at warp speed.

[The Chosen One]

I don't think Folty's fastball is as flat as say Capellan's.

I just think he doesn't locate as well. If he utilized off speed stuff more and such his fastball would be more dominant. Also helps he doesn't throw for strikes and get ahead in the count. But apparently from what I read in this gdt he got favorable leads but AJ called some idiotic pitches on pitcher's counts.

A young pitcher who has raw talent like Folty needs a catcher to help and teach him think. Folty is a thrower right now and not polished like a pitcher. If he has someone like Flowers, McCann, or who has a reputation for handling staffs well he could be better.

AJP can never be a manager because he's not a smart catcher. Great teammate but not a great baseball mind. He's only lasted long because he's a catcher.

[jpx7]

727293267625136128

Not that hard.

[The Chosen One]

Meanwhile: I remain unable to embed a tweet on this site.

To wit:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">It's hard when a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Braves?src=hash">#Braves</a> player is called up from the minors, 'cause they've gotta get used to the smaller crowds.</p>&mdash; George Wallace (@MrGeorgeWallace) <a href="https://twitter.com/MrGeorgeWallace/status/727293267625136128">May 3, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

You need the twitter tweet number and that's it.

[goldfly]

People questioned Cox all the time. I doubt they remember it now though.

I'm questioning Cox still

[jpx7]

You need the twitter tweet number and that's it.

How are twitter tweet number form?

[clvclv]

I don't think Folty's fastball is as flat as say Capellan's.

I just think he doesn't locate as well. If he utilized off speed stuff more and such his fastball would be more dominant. Also helps he doesn't throw for strikes and get ahead in the count. But apparently from what I read in this gdt he got favorable leads but AJ called some idiotic pitches on pitcher's counts.

A young pitcher who has raw talent like Folty needs a catcher to help and teach him think. Folty is a thrower right now and not polished like a pitcher. If he has someone like Flowers, McCann, or who has a reputation for handling staffs well he could be better.

AJP can never be a manager because he's not a smart catcher. Great teammate but not a great baseball mind. He's only lasted long because he's a catcher.

Capellan's actually not a bad comp - still the same thing. Great stuff, no brain.

It's the same story time after time with him, and the excuses are old and tired. So Blake Lalli, Ryan Lavarnway, and Braeden Schlehuber are great thinkers and pitch-framers? He was lighting it up with them behind the plate, right? None of the Folty-apologists think the coaches and instructors work with him every day on this? He's the ONLY player in the entire system who is only paid attention to on the days he starts?

He says it in every interview after a shelling - "I can't do that", "I can't keep getting behind hitters", and all the other "right things" - he apparently just can't do anything about it. Trying to hang his struggles on the Catcher is like trying to continue to hang games with NINE hits and ONE run on Fredi - neither the Catchers or Fredi are throwing the pitches.

[bravesfanMatt]

I have been on AJP in this thread, and I think he deserves some grip.. But Folty needs to get his head straight too. He can't let non calls or bad pitches affect the next pitch.

But it was clear to everyone that Folty was mixing pitches better after the 1st inning..Was it AJ calling them or Fredi.. I don't know.. but I am sure it wasn't Folty as fast as he was working. Folty showed a good change up and curve at times.. He still needs to get his fast ball down at the knees more because that will make his curve and change up more effective... but I thought his stuff was good last night and he off speed wasn't used enough...especially in the 1st.. the first batter was Curtis and he got up and threw a nasty curve that Curtis fouled off somehow.. then missed wildly with two cutters off to the right.. then came back inside corner with a very good change on 3-2 to K Curtis.. Then he missed with a few curves to Wright.. had a 2-2 cutter painting the outside corner that a good catcher might have stolen a strike.. and came back with the same pitch cutting back in on Wright and up..not a good pitch....

[The Chosen One]

Capellan's actually not a bad comp - still the same thing. Great stuff, no brain.

It's the same story time after time with him, and the excuses are old and tired. So Blake Lalli, Ryan Lavarnway, and Braeden Schlehuber are great thinkers and pitch-framers? He was lighting it up with them behind the plate, right? None of the Folty-apologists think the coaches and instructors work with him every day on this? He's the ONLY player in the entire system who is only paid attention to on the days he starts?

He says it in every interview after a shelling - "I can't do that", "I can't keep getting behind hitters", and all the other "right things" - he apparently just can't do anything about it. Trying to hang his struggles on the Catcher is like trying to continue to hang games with NINE hits and ONE run on Fredi - neither the Catchers or Fredi are throwing the pitches.

But it's pretty obvious to anyone that is watching that AJ is hurting our pitchers because he can't block balls, throw anybody out, and frame at all.

He's been working with AJ since last year. AJ should not be working with him and it's almost like night and day with Teheran as well.

And still I think it's too early to give up on Folty as a starter and I'm definitely not a Folty apolgist.

Are you seriously telling me AJ shares no blame and that he manages staffs and is as good of a defensive catcher as someone like McCann?

It's not fair to Folty that our front office thinks AJ is the right catcher to work with our young talent. The guy can't throw any runners out, he can't block pitches in the dirt, he certainly can't frame pitches for strikes like his teammate flowers. What qualities does AJ have to make you believe he should be mentoring these young guys?

Glav and Smoltzie and others used to credit Olsen for helping them on the mound too. No way Folty was gonna throw AJ under the bus, but if you are telling me AJP is a plus for this team as a regular catcher you're out of your mind.

Sure Folty deserves some blame for not being able to shrug off bad Calls but it's the Catcher's responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen. When Julio was a young guy, McCann was a great guy to have behind the plate. Not even talking about Harper thing but mac was rated as one of the best pitch framers aND I'd imagine that does wonders for confidence for younger guys that they can worry about locating to the mitt instead of overthrowing.

[bravesfanMatt]

to expand on this.. I think the blame does go on Folty.. He has to execute the pitches... if told a reporter that AJ called a bad game, I would want him off the team immediately. That is my job to say that, not his.. lol..

But JT's last start with Flowers.. there was a 2-2 pitch that Flowers got called strike three.. it was low and off the plate but he pulled it back.. little things like that can drastically change a game.. I am almost positive if AJ frames the 2-2 pitch to Wright and gets that 3rd strike.. the entire game would have been different and everyone would be saying how well Folty pitched.. but he didn't and Folty made several bad pitches to compound the matter.. That is Folty's fault without a doubt.. But our young staff is working on razor thin margins right now.. they need every advantage they can possibly get.. and Flowers is a better choice for them.. I don't care if he is hitting .110.. he is going to be better in the long run for the young staff..

[57Brave]

Pitch selection the first time through the order is scripted in the pitcher-catcher-pitching coach meetings before the games.
If there is a glitch the pitching coach comes out and address' it. Ala Gattis and Tehran

Catcher merely executes what was earlier decided.

No fan of AJ or McDowell and the jury still out on Folt...
The Mets hit the ball - let's give them the credit and move on

[auyushu]

People questioned Cox all the time. I doubt they remember it now though.

Why would they not remember it? Bobby is an all time great as a manager, but he was below average at in game management of the team, lineup construction, and bullpen usage. His strengths were being one of the best managers of personalities of all time and having his players backs like nobody else. This allowed him to get the absolute best out of his players during the regular season. But the lack of in game management hurt us in the playoffs from time to time. Nothing crazy to to both consider Bobby a great manager and criticize his weaknesses, particularly with our postseason futility from 1997 on.

The problem with Fredi is he has all of Bobby's weaknesses and none of his strengths. I can't think of any particular area where I consider Fredi a good manager.

[57Brave]

I can't think of any particular area where I consider Fredi a good manager.

Certain that is keeping him up nights

Apparently you missed the Eddie Haas - Chuck Tanner - Russ Nixon era.

[weso1]

I don't think Folty's fastball is as flat as say Capellan's.

I just think he doesn't locate as well. If he utilized off speed stuff more and such his fastball would be more dominant. Also helps he doesn't throw for strikes and get ahead in the count. But apparently from what I read in this gdt he got favorable leads but AJ called some idiotic pitches on pitcher's counts.

A young pitcher who has raw talent like Folty needs a catcher to help and teach him think. Folty is a thrower right now and not polished like a pitcher. If he has someone like Flowers, McCann, or who has a reputation for handling staffs well he could be better.

AJP can never be a manager because he's not a smart catcher. Great teammate but not a great baseball mind. He's only lasted long because he's a catcher.

I think his four seamer is pretty flat, but you're right that the issue is in his locating that pitch. When he throws it right down the pipe on a 3-1 count then that hitter is just going to tee off on it. The two seamer he throws does have some movement. So the key on the two seamer is to keep that pitch down and keep the four seamer up above the belt. So overall I agree that control and command is his biggest issue.

[striker42]

I think his four seamer is pretty flat, but you're right that the issue is in his locating that pitch. When he throws it right down the pipe on a 3-1 count then that hitter is just going to tee off on it. The two seamer he throws does have some movement. So the key on the two seamer is to keep that pitch down and keep the four seamer up above the belt. So overall I agree that control and command is his biggest issue.

I'm with you on the command thing. He's not giving up HR's because his fastball is straight. He's giving up HR's because he's falling behind and grooving a 4 seamer. I don't care who you are, when you've got a 3-1 count and groove a 4 seamer, it's going to get destroyed.

[smootness]

He needs to rely primarily on the 2-seamer and use the 4-seamer only as an out pitch to blow by hitters. He can still throw the 2-seamer 93-94, and that's plenty fast.

[Enscheff]

I think his four seamer is pretty flat, but you're right that the issue is in his locating that pitch. When he throws it right down the pipe on a 3-1 count then that hitter is just going to tee off on it. The two seamer he throws does have some movement. So the key on the two seamer is to keep that pitch down and keep the four seamer up above the belt. So overall I agree that control and command is his biggest issue.

News fash: all 4 seamers are straight. The HR to Wright was a 93 MPH 4 seamer right down the middle on a hitter's count. Folty was pitching behind from the start, and he paid for it, simple as that. Until he can start locating his 2 seamer down in the zone and elevating his 4 seamer above the hitter's hands, he will continue to get shelled. It has very little to do with AJP flashing the signs to him.

He will either figure it out this year or be moved to the BP. This is the perfect season to finally make a decision with Folty. Give him 20 starts at the MLB level and see what happens.

[auyushu]

Certain that is keeping him up nights

Apparently you missed the Eddie Haas - Chuck Tanner - Russ Nixon era.

I'd imagine the fact that very few people consider him a good manager probably does, and he's likely fired before going into next season because of it. And no, didn't miss the Tanner/Nixon era, been watching the Braves since 83. Just because those were terrible managers doesn't mean Fredi isn't too.

[57Brave]

I remember Chuck Tanner promising a parade. Then going out and getting Omar Moreno who Tanner played . and played. and played.
Let me put it this way, Moreno made BJ look like Willie McGee. JacePeterson and Tommy LaStella look like Ryne Sandberg

For all of FG's faults , he has never been that bad.

You have to remember I watched every inning of the 64 Phillies when Gene Mauch literally pissed (over managed his way) away a 6 game lead with 10 to go.

I always thought it amazing that the TV people fawned over Tony Larussa yet his teams never seemed to throw to the right base or hit cut off men.
He just had better players. FG has never had that advantage.

I've thought 4 or 5 times over the past coupelyears Gonzalez shouldn't make it through the week.
But this is the Braves, not the Steinbrenner Yankees

[57Brave]

I'd imagine the fact that very few people consider him a good manager probably does, and he's likely fired before going into next season because of it. And no, didn't miss the Tanner/Nixon era, been watching the Braves since 83. Just because those were terrible managers doesn't mean Fredi isn't too.

I learned a long time ago that if management thinks like those in the stands ( or couch TV) they will shortly be watching the games with the ones in the stands and on the couch watching.

I admire the Braves managements patience with players this month . Front office and coaching staff