Nick Swisher is thrilled the Braves released him...

[goldfly]

Nick Swisher is thrilled the Braves released him

Tim Casey of Vice Sports spoke with Nick Swisher, who is currently at Triple-A Scranton-Wilkes Barre in the Yankees organization, waiting for his shot. It’s been a rough couple of years for Swisher in which he’s suffered through knee injuries, ineffectiveness and anger from Indians fans for not living up to the contract the club gave him.

He was shuffled off to Atlanta last year, played poorly and did not make the team out of spring training this year. But he’s still happy that the Braves, the worst baseball team in over a decade and serious contenders to be the worst baseball team in the modern era, thought that he wasn’t good enough:


“Being released by the Braves in the long run is gonna be the best thing that ever happened to me, man . . . I’m actually happy that it did happen because after seeing what’s going on over there, I don’t know if that’s where I would want to be right now.”

Guy is stuck in Scranton and, at best, has the chance to be a bench bat for a last place Yankees team and he’s still happy he’s not in Atlanta. Man, what a year.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/05/12/nick-swisher-is-thrilled-the-braves-released-him/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

[thewupk]

we are horrible

[nsacpi]

The FO will have quite a selling job to do this off-season if they elect to do anything but bottom-fishing in the FA market.

[mfree80]

And despite those who believe the young future stars should not be up this year... This is exactly why they should. The Braves need to show that the rebuild is proceeding and to show there is hope on the horizon.

[nsacpi]

I wonder if it will be harder or easier to get players like Prado and McCann (who has a no trade) to come back to Atlanta. They experienced some good times here, but I have the feeling there has been a long-term reputational cost from what the FO has done in recent years.

[Julio3000]

And despite those who believe the young future stars should not be up this year... This is exactly why they should. The Braves need to show that the rebuild is proceeding and to show there is hope on the horizon.

I just do not understand this reasoning at all.

[Preacher]

And despite those who believe the young future stars should not be up this year... This is exactly why they should. The Braves need to show that the rebuild is proceeding and to show there is hope on the horizon.

And this is why rebuilds tend to fail, people get too caught up in the short term.

If you don't have the patience to see this through; then what was the point in doing it?

[57Brave]

there is a reason Swisher is in Scranton playing AAA hoping for a call up to (the not that much better than the Braves) Yankees instead of in KC

Scratch the surface little deeper and we would see Nick Swisher is fulla **** and had it been offered would be playing in Richmond.
hoping for a call up the the Braves.

[mfree80]

I just do not understand this reasoning at all.

Nsacpi is suggesting that no good FA's will sign with the Braves as now constituted. That is correct. I believe they will however, consider signing with a young team with promise that needs a couple of good FA's to turn the corner to competitiveness.

I think the FO wants to send a message that the rebuild is working by putting a better team on the field later this year than what we see now.

[nsacpi]

Nsacpi is suggesting that no good FA's will sign with the Braves as now constituted. That is correct. I believe they will however, consider signing with a young team with promise that needs a couple of good FA's to turn the corner to competitiveness.

I think the FO wants to send a message that the rebuild is working by putting a better team on the field later this year than what we see now.

They will have a selling job to do. The sales pitch could take the form of moolah or it could take the form of powerpoint presentation outlining what is coming up through the farm system or some other form.

The thing I wonder about is the message perceived by how quickly they moved Kimbrel and Simmons after they signed extensions. There wasn't a no-trade in those extensions but there is an implicit commitment by the parties when those kinds of deals are made. Now its caveat emptor. Maybe it is the reason why no attempt was made to extent Miller, though that turned out well. I wonder if Inciarte or Vizcaino would entertain an extension this off-season.

[smootness]

Richmond

.....

[smootness]

Free agents sign with bad teams all the time. And I think most players understand what we're doing and what we have coming soon.

[Julio3000]

Free agents sign with bad teams all the time. And I think most players understand what we're doing and what we have coming soon.

Yeah. MLB players may not be the brightest, on the whole, but they've mostly mastered the concept of object permanence. They don't have to see Dansby Swanson playing SS for the Braves in order to believe that he exists.

But taking your reasoning a tad further, mfree—signing some second-tier FA in the winter of 2016 is worth shortening the effective competitive window for the team?

[50PoundHead]

And I'm glad the Braves released Nick Swisher.

[Julio3000]

And I'm glad the Braves released Nick Swisher.

Yeah, I'm thrilled we released him, too, as far as that goes. Win-win.

[The Chosen One]

I just do not understand this reasoning at all.

I do.

Getting an extra year out of a player isn't going to really help us if we can't afford them. If Liberty doesn't pony up and splurge, we're not gonna be able to extent Dansby, Ozzie, Wisler, Blair, etc. We're gonna be in the same situation in 5 years as 2014. Try to keep one good player out of the core and trade away the rest. Hopefully the FO will have drafted better by then so we don't need to trade everyone.

Lastly our clock has already started. Someone mentioned here a few weeks ago that for pitchers, their clock starts immediately because their arms are gonna bust bad at some point. We can't realistically expect all of Folty, Wisler, Blair, Newcomb, Sims, Jenkins to 1) Be productive major league staraters and 2) All of them will survive and stay healthy (no tj or shoulder surgeries). Considering our track record lately we have the worst count in baseball in terms of TJ

So with that being said, because of the fact our young pitchers are questionable, I'd rather our best prospects that are super close to the bigs go ahead and get their bumps and bruises here instead of AA and AAA.

I always wonder what would have happened if Medlen, Minor, and Beachy didn't get hurt so much. I don't think Wren would have gotten canned yet and I don't think they would have broken up the band so soon.

[mqt]

I do.

Getting an extra year out of a player isn't going to really help us if we can't afford them. If Liberty doesn't pony up and splurge, we're not gonna be able to extent Dansby, Ozzie, Wisler, Blair, etc. We're gonna be in the same situation in 5 years as 2014. Try to keep one good player out of the core and trade away the rest. Hopefully the FO will have drafted better by then so we don't need to trade everyone.

Lastly our clock has already started. Someone mentioned here a few weeks ago that for pitchers, their clock starts immediately because their arms are gonna bust bad at some point. We can't realistically expect all of Folty, Wisler, Blair, Newcomb, Sims, Jenkins to 1) Be productive major league staraters and 2) All of them will survive and stay healthy (no tj or shoulder surgeries). Considering our track record lately we have the worst count in baseball in terms of TJ

So with that being said, because of the fact our young pitchers are questionable, I'd rather our best prospects that are super close to the bigs go ahead and get their bumps and bruises here instead of AA and AAA.

I always wonder what would have happened if Medlen, Minor, and Beachy didn't get hurt so much. I don't think Wren would have gotten canned yet and I don't think they would have broken up the band so soon.

I disagree with the idea behind the bolded. The fact that we can't extend the entire core is exactly why managing their service time becomes so crucial. If Swanson is what we think he can be, I'd want to maximize the amount of prime years we get from him since extending him would be crazy expensive in that scenario. I don't mind letting a couple of the pitchers get their lumps this year, but the top-end talent like Swanson and Albies I want nowhere near Atlanta this year.

[bravesnumberone]

I would be thrilled too if a team was paying me 15 million not to play for them because they were damn dumb enough to take on it.

[Julio3000]

I do.

Getting an extra year out of a player isn't going to really help us if we can't afford them. If Liberty doesn't pony up and splurge, we're not gonna be able to extent Dansby, Ozzie, Wisler, Blair, etc. We're gonna be in the same situation in 5 years as 2014. Try to keep one good player out of the core and trade away the rest. Hopefully the FO will have drafted better by then so we don't need to trade everyone.

Lastly our clock has already started. Someone mentioned here a few weeks ago that for pitchers, their clock starts immediately because their arms are gonna bust bad at some point. We can't realistically expect all of Folty, Wisler, Blair, Newcomb, Sims, Jenkins to 1) Be productive major league staraters and 2) All of them will survive and stay healthy (no tj or shoulder surgeries). Considering our track record lately we have the worst count in baseball in terms of TJ

So with that being said, because of the fact our young pitchers are questionable, I'd rather our best prospects that are super close to the bigs go ahead and get their bumps and bruises here instead of AA and AAA.

I always wonder what would have happened if Medlen, Minor, and Beachy didn't get hurt so much. I don't think Wren would have gotten canned yet and I don't think they would have broken up the band so soon.

But to bring them up for what amounts to public relations? Seems like the antithesis of strategy. It would be hard to believe folks who say they have a plan if they made a knee-jerk move like that.

[thewupk]

I disagree with the idea behind the bolded. The fact that we can't extend the entire core is exactly why managing their service time becomes so crucial. If Swanson is what we think he can be, I'd want to maximize the amount of prime years we get from him since extending him would be crazy expensive in that scenario. I don't mind letting a couple of the pitchers get their lumps this year, but the top-end talent like Swanson and Albies I want nowhere near Atlanta this year.

I agree with this. Also the idea of staggering your call ups makes sense too. Whenever it happens I don't want Albies and Swanson to come up at the same time. Half a season of service time at the least just so they don't even hit arbitration at the same time. This is what mid market teams like Atlanta have to take into consideration if they want to remain consistently competitive. Playing the service time game is something that they have to exploit going forward.

[clvclv]

.....

Semantics...you know what he meant.

[clvclv]

I disagree with the idea behind the bolded. The fact that we can't extend the entire core is exactly why managing their service time becomes so crucial. If Swanson is what we think he can be, I'd want to maximize the amount of prime years we get from him since extending him would be crazy expensive in that scenario. I don't mind letting a couple of the pitchers get their lumps this year, but the top-end talent like Swanson and Albies I want nowhere near Atlanta this year.

IF - and it's obviously a big if - you believe in some of these kids, you begin discussions with them BEFORE you ever get to the point that the finances become an issue. I mentioned offering Swanson the same type of money the Rays offered Longoria before he was promoted a while back. Is it a gamble? Of course. The thing is, you have to trust your evaluators/Coaches/scouts at some point if you're JS/Hart/Coppy etc., and put your neck on the line - otherwise you've hired the wrong people to begin with and you're never going to be successful anyway. Then his service-time clock never becomes an issue AND the exploding salaries that are going to continue never become a concern.

I've yet to hear the first person that doesn't think Swanson's going to be successful at whatever point he's promoted. If you can't save some money by offering him something that COULD become a team-friendly contract in the long-run before he's ever making money, you've got no shot at extending him at anything less than market value in the future. I know it drives lots of people crazy around here, but they trusted those people when they chose to extend Freddie for a "decent" figure and wouldn't entertain paying Heyward anything close to market value. Anyone who still wants to argue that decision is nuts. $50 million more for a guy who's great defensively, hurt constantly, hits less than .230, and can't hit the ball over the fence? No thanks - and I couldn't care less if he caught every ball hit in the air right of the LF power alley.

[thewupk]

IF - and it's obviously a big if - you believe in some of these kids, you begin discussions with them BEFORE you ever get to the point that the finances become an issue. I mentioned offering Swanson the same type of money the Rays offered Longoria before he was promoted a while back. Is it a gamble? Of course. The thing is, you have to trust your evaluators/Coaches/scouts at some point if you're JS/Hart/Coppy etc., and put your neck on the line - otherwise you've hired the wrong people to begin with and you're never going to be successful anyway. Then his service-time clock never becomes an issue AND the exploding salaries that are going to continue never become a concern.

I've yet to hear the first person that doesn't think Swanson's going to be successful at whatever point he's promoted. If you can't save some money by offering him something that COULD become a team-friendly contract in the long-run before he's ever making money, you've got no shot at extending him at anything less than market value in the future. I know it drives lots of people crazy around here, but they trusted those people when they chose to extend Freddie for a "decent" figure and wouldn't entertain paying Heyward anything close to market value. Anyone who still wants to argue that decision is nuts. $50 million more for a guy who's great defensively, hurt constantly, hits less than .230, and can't hit the ball over the fence? No thanks - and I couldn't care less if he caught every ball hit in the air right of the LF power alley.

Since 2012 Freeman has played in all of 9 games more than Heyward. So the constantly hurt BS needs to stop. His main two reasons for missing games in his MLB career is getting hit in the face and having an appendectomy. Heyward is not injury prone. Freeman is the much larger risk with his wrist and eyes issue. Things that can come back to haunt him at some point. He's also hit 270 in that time frame while Freeman has hit 286. And Freeman has averaged 24 homers per 162 games while Heyward has averaged 18. Is Freeman a better hitter? Yeah he is. But the idea that Freeman is some superstar while Heyward is crap is false. Defense does matter and it's why Heyward is making more. Deal with it.

[GovClintonTyree]

Nick Swisher is thrilled the Braves released him

Tim Casey of Vice Sports spoke with Nick Swisher, who is currently at Triple-A Scranton-Wilkes Barre in the Yankees organization, waiting for his shot. It’s been a rough couple of years for Swisher in which he’s suffered through knee injuries, ineffectiveness and anger from Indians fans for not living up to the contract the club gave him.

He was shuffled off to Atlanta last year, played poorly and did not make the team out of spring training this year. But he’s still happy that the Braves, the worst baseball team in over a decade and serious contenders to be the worst baseball team in the modern era, thought that he wasn’t good enough:



Guy is stuck in Scranton and, at best, has the chance to be a bench bat for a last place Yankees team and he’s still happy he’s not in Atlanta. Man, what a year.

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/05/12/nick-swisher-is-thrilled-the-braves-released-him/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

Yeah, but Nick Swisher gets excited when his morning powerdump is successful.

[The Chosen One]

As it stands we aren't even a mid market team right now. We're bottom 5 in payroll. Who knows if they're willing to go up once these guys make money.

[clvclv]

Since 2012 Freeman has played in all of 9 games more than Heyward. So the constantly hurt BS needs to stop. His main two reasons for missing games in his MLB career is getting hit in the face and having an appendectomy. Heyward is not injury prone. Freeman is the much larger risk with his wrist and eyes issue. Things that can come back to haunt him at some point. He's also hit 270 in that time frame while Freeman has hit 286. And Freeman has averaged 24 homers per 162 games while Heyward has averaged 18. Is Freeman a better hitter? Yeah he is. But the idea that Freeman is some superstar while Heyward is crap is false. Defense does matter and it's why Heyward is making more. Deal with it.


.218/.331/.261/.591 and an OPS+ of 62

That's what the Cubs have gotten for $184 million so far.

If you don't think Theo and Jed would love to have some of that money back to try to extend Arrieta with, you're kidding yourself.

[thewupk]

.218/.331/.261/.591 and an OPS+ of 62

That's what the Cubs have gotten for $184 million so far.

If you don't think Theo and Jed would love to have some of that money back to try to extend Arrieta with, you're kidding yourself.

Actually they have only gotten that stat line for 3 million so far which is what he has been paid so far this year. If you think Theo and Jed believe that's what they are going to get from Heyward the rest of his time left then you're kidding yourself. Heyward started out super slow last year and finished as one of the best players in the league on the best team in the league. I feel something similar will happen this year once October rolls around as well.

[rico43]

there is a reason Swisher is in Scranton playing AAA hoping for a call up to (the not that much better than the Braves) Yankees instead of in KC

Scratch the surface little deeper and we would see Nick Swisher is fulla **** and had it been offered would be playing in Richmond.
hoping for a call up the the Braves.

The Braves have not been in Richmond for a long, long time.

[rico43]

Yeah, but Nick Swisher gets excited when his morning powerdump is successful.

+1

[jpx7]

.218/.331/.261/.591 and an OPS+ of 62

That's what the Cubs have gotten for $184 million so far.

If you don't think Theo and Jed would love to have some of that money back to try to extend Arrieta with, you're kidding yourself.

Heyward must have sodomized and/or sold crack to a lot of the board's family members, given the amount of vitriol he receives. It really does seem personal for a lot of these people.

The fact is, Freeman and Heyward are both very good players; they get there different ways, but the end result—that they're both just below that "truly great" echelon—is the same. And both are being paid accordingly. But just because you think some teams have overvalued defense in their contract negotiations—and the book is out: maybe they have—doesn't justify gross exaggerations and mis-characterizations regarding Heyward's productivity, nor does it justify the volume of smug dismissals of any opinion contrary to "teh Heywood sucks lolz you kiddin yourself".

[57Brave]

The Braves have not been in Richmond for a long, long time.


oops. ..

[clvclv]

Heyward must have sodomized and/or sold crack to a lot of the board's family members, given the amount of vitriol he receives. It really does seem personal for a lot of these people.

The fact is, Freeman and Heyward are both very good players; they get there different ways, but the end result—that they're both just below that "truly great" echelon—is the same. And both are being paid accordingly. But just because you think some teams have overvalued defense in their contract negotiations—and the book is out: maybe they have—doesn't justify gross exaggerations and mis-characterizations regarding Heyward's productivity, nor does it justify the volume of smug dismissals of any opinion contrary to "teh Heywood sucks lolz you kiddin yourself".

I've always been one of the most guilty folks around here when it comes to downplaying Heyward's value, but not because I have anything against him. He's always been one of my favorite players just as Andrelton has. The reason isn't that I disagree that "value" comes in many different forms either. What I think often gets "missed" by those far more qualified to break down the new math than I've ever been is the fact that when they simplify things to $$$/WAR and other things to try to make it easier for us to understand is that they don't realize that's only important IF everyone was working with similar budgets. Unfortunately they're not. Several posters have referred to players like J-Hey and Tron as "luxuries" the Braves just can't afford, and as much as it pains most of us, they're right. Teams with smaller payrolls can't afford to pay glove-first guys $7-$8 million/WAR (or whatever the correct figure is at the moment) if they hope to compete. The Cubs can afford to do that with Heyward, and that's great for Jason - hopefully he'll get a ring to go along with getting the extra money he "deserves". Quite a few people here go out of their way to state that the Braves won't play at the top-end of the free-agent pool. The thing is, if they'd have offered Heyward the money the market did, they'd have $26 million per tied up in Inciarte's defense and Markakis' offense and STILL wouldn't have anyone to hit behind Freeman. We need much more well-rounded players all over the diamond - the hope is that the improved offensive production from Swanson or Albies at SS will at the very least offset the loss of Simba's stronger D.

Everyone's frustrated (and understandably so), but the presence of Simba and Heyward on this roster wouldn't make things any better - this team's not losing because of a lack of starting pitching, it's not even losing because of bad defense (although it's been painful to watch at times as well. This team's losing because the vast majority of players in the lineup can't hit at all, and neither of those players would do much to correct that - no matter how much any of us like them.

[Dalyn]

Heyward must have sodomized and/or sold crack to a lot of the board's family members, given the amount of vitriol he receives.

That would endear him to most of us, you'd think.

[yeezus]

Heyward must have sodomized and/or sold crack to a lot of the board's family members, given the amount of vitriol he receives. It really does seem personal for a lot of these people.

The fact is, Freeman and Heyward are both very good players; they get there different ways, but the end result—that they're both just below that "truly great" echelon—is the same. And both are being paid accordingly. But just because you think some teams have overvalued defense in their contract negotiations—and the book is out: maybe they have—doesn't justify gross exaggerations and mis-characterizations regarding Heyward's productivity, nor does it justify the volume of smug dismissals of any opinion contrary to "teh Heywood sucks lolz you kiddin yourself".

The opposite is also true.
I really like Heyward as a player and always have. I don't think he's a great hitter, I think his WAR is consistently overblown because of his stellar defense in RF, and I don't view him as a hitter you rely on. These views also get mocked by some. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a very good player. But if you didn't want to pay him $23M a year, some called you crazy. I'm a Heyward h8er because I don't think he's worth $23M and don't think he's a great hitter.

[thewupk]

The opposite is also true.
I really like Heyward as a player and always have. I don't think he's a great hitter, I think his WAR is consistently overblown because of his stellar defense in RF, and I don't view him as a hitter you rely on. These views also get mocked by some. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a very good player. But if you didn't want to pay him $23M a year, some called you crazy. I'm a Heyward h8er because I don't think he's worth $23M and don't think he's a great hitter.

How much do you think Heyward is worth then?

[goldfly]

That would endear him to most of us, you'd think.

that is the only reason i like him

he's got the best **** out in these streets

[Knucksie]

I'd of been more thrilled if there'd been a way to never have had to get him in the first place, but the release wasn't a bad consolation prize.