Braves get Matusz from o's

[bravesfanforlife88]

Per mlbtraderumors.

[Braves1976]

7:20pm: Matusz is going to the Braves for minor league pitchers Brandon Barker and Trevor Belicek, per a Baltimore announcement.

7:16pm: The Orioles have struck a deal involving lefty Brian Matusz, according to Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com (via Twitter). A 29-year-old southpaw, Matusz is earning $3.9MM this year in his final season of arbitration control.

[KB21]

Matusz and the 76th pick for Brandon Barker and Trevor Belicik

[bravesfanforlife88]

Barker and belicek going to Baltimore we get Matusz and draft pick

[Nxun]

Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo
Orioles trade Brian Matusz and the 76th overall pick to the Braves for minor league RHP Brandon Barker & LHP Trevor Belicek.

[Braves1976]

I hate this trade as I liked both Barker and Belicik, we get a rental and the 76th pick? That's all? Really?

[MadduxFanII]

Matusz had some nice numbers as a reliever from 2013-2015. Was he injured to start the year? He's only thrown six innings so far.

There's a chance he dominates for the next couple months and you can flip him for more than Barker and Belicik. But presumably the draft pick is why we made this deal.

[Chico]

I'm assuming we're flipping Matusz

[Braves1976]

I liked both Barker and Belicek, overpay for the 76th pick. Plus we take on Matusz contract...

[CrimsonCowboy]

Explains why Barker is not in Mobile tonight

[Carp]

Dumb.

[CJ9]

I'm fine with the deal, but apparently we are going to DFA Matusz. That's the part I don't like. It's not like we've got prime EOF-Venters-Kimbrel back there. Give him a shot to regain form and get traded again.

[dak]

My immediate reaction is that the trade seems fair. Barker and Belicik aren't super valuable, but pretty stealthy pickups by BAL. Not every GM is Dave Stewart, unfortunately. Braves seem to foaming at the mouth to acquire these draft picks.

[dak]

I think "big win" is a bit much here, but this provides some solid perspective.

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[dak]

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[Braves1976]

My immediate reaction is that the trade seems fair. Barker and Belicik aren't super valuable, but pretty stealthy pickups by BAL. Not every GM is Dave Stewart, unfortunately. Braves seem to foaming at the mouth to acquire these draft picks.

Barker and Belicik are good prospects, Baltimore is right to see something in both IMO.

[yeezus]

I hate this trade as I liked both Barker and Belicik, we get a rental and the 76th pick? That's all? Really?

ooooh lawdy!

[skillet]

What an unbelievably terrible trade. We just got butt ****ed with no lubricant at all. Goddamn :facepalm:

[yeezus]

I liked both Barker and Belicek, overpay for the 76th pick. Plus we take on Matusz contract...

76 is a way way way higher pick than either of those two studs.

[KB21]

Neither Barker nor Belicek were among the top prospects for the Braves in the system. To get the 76th pick for both of them at this time is actually a pretty good deal for Atlanta. Those two don't have much more value than that. It's better to get a high pick than to use them as throw ins in a deal down the road.

[yeezus]

this place is hilarious

[yeezus]

Neither Barker nor Belicek were among the top prospects for the Braves in the system. To get the 76th pick for both of them at this time is actually a pretty good deal for Atlanta. Those two don't have much more value than that. It's better to get a high pick than to use them as throw ins in a deal down the road.

I'm sure we can find similar guys in the 15th round this year.

[UNCBlue012]

This is a great trade IMO.

[UNCBlue012]

There was nothing horrible about this trade. We traded two low-end guys for the number 76 pick. Lol

[Braves1976]

734905677760454656

Barker has a deceptive delivery that helps him too, one scout called him a right handed Alex Wood in a sense. He's turned into a real find IMO. Belicik is another good prospect that has been great in Rome. I like his potential quite a bit as well.

[atl717]

Getting the 76th pick for a 5th starter at best kind of guy is a great trade. 5th starters are easy to find.

[bravesnumberone]

I like how every single prospect we have is a stud around here, no matter what.

[50PoundHead]

I'm sure we can find similar guys in the 15th round this year.

More odd than anything else. Matusz has to feel kind of crappy. I wouldn''t be surprised if he is flipped at the deadline.

I like both Barker and Belicek, but they are more depth than anything else. Of course, who would have thought Williams Perez would have been in the big league rotation three years ago.

[SidSlid92]

Awesome trade. 2 organizational pieces for a potential useful reliever and early pick. Love it. Just hope we don't DFA Matusz

[yeezus]

Getting the 76th pick for a 5th starter at best kind of guy is a great trade. 5th starters are easy to find.

either of them will be fortunate to be a 5th starter

[Braves1976]

@mlbbowman 29m29 minutes ago
The Braves are expected to DFA Matusz. So they essentially took his remaining salary ($3.9 M) to gain the 76th pick.

[dak]

This is certainly a possibility that this introduces. Could explain why Braves have been relentlessly trying to trade for a pick.

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[bravesnumberone]

Don't particularly understand the DFA part. We gonna try to get another draft pick for him?

[Garmel]

Matusz could have some value. Why DFA him?

[KB21]

how are you guys linking the tweets so they show up?

[Braves1976]

We basically are trading what's left of 3.9 million (Matusz contract) along with Barker and Belicik for just the 76th pick. That is an overpay, but not surprising as desperate as we seemed for such a draft pick.

[NYCBrave]

This is certainly a possibility that this introduces. Could explain why Braves have been relentlessly trying to trade for a pick.

734909865886257153

How exactly does that work?

[jpx7]

Don't particularly understand the DFA part.

Yea, not sure why the organization wouldn't at least give Matusz a shot to rebuild some value in the team's pen.

[skillet]

This is certainly a possibility that this introduces. Could explain why Braves have been relentlessly trying to trade for a pick.

734909865886257153

I don't understand this logic. We are sending Baltimore $3.9MM. How could we then use that same money to pay a top 20 talent at 40?

[ChadWC]

We basically are trading what's left of 3.9 million (Matusz contract) along with Barker and Belicik for just the 76th pick. That is an overpay, but not surprising as desperate as we seemed for such a draft pick.

Not even close to being accurate. It's the money not the pick. They want to draft a first round guy at 40 and use this money to help pay for him and sign a college senior for $100,000 at 76. This has nothing to do with who is picked at 76.

90% of the people on this board are out of touch with reality. They complain like 14 year old school girls who had their cell phone taken by their parents. The Braves can do nothing right.

[ChadWC]

I don't understand this logic. We are sending Baltimore $3.9MM. How could we then use that same money to pay a top 20 talent at 40?

You get the money associated with the pick. Has nothing to do with how much you can actually spend. If that were true the Dodgers could tell whoever to hold out and they'd shell out 5-10 million for 10 players in the first 10 rounds.

[skillet]

Not even close to being accurate. It's the money not the pick. They want to draft a first round guy at 40 and use this money to help pay for him and sign a college senior for $100,000 at 76. This has nothing to do with who is picked at 76.

90% of the people on this board are out of touch with reality. They complain like 14 year old school girls who had their cell phone taken by their parents. The Braves can do nothing right.

Could you possibly be any more condescending or less respectful?

[ChadWC]

Could you possibly be any more condescending or less respectful?

I could but then I'd be in the minority.

[Braves1976]

Not even close to being accurate. It's the money not the pick. They want to draft a first round guy at 40 and use this money to help pay for him and sign a college senior for $100,000 at 76. This has nothing to do with who is picked at 76.

90% of the people on this board are out of touch with reality. They complain like 14 year old school girls who had their cell phone taken by their parents. The Braves can do nothing right.

I didn't speculate at all at how we plan to use the pick so save your rant for someone who actually said such. Plus how we plan to use it says nothing as far as whether or not we overpayed for the pick itself. I gave my opinion on that based on how I rank the players and considering the money payed. If you disagree that's fine but you and others being assholes and acting like children in your responses to my opinion can kiss my ass.

[Heyward]

I hate this trade as I liked both Barker and Belicik, we get a rental and the 76th pick? That's all? Really?

Do you like anything the Braves do, always complaining.

[ChadWC]

I didn't speculate at all at how we plan to use the pick so save your rant for someone who actually said such. Plus how we plan to use it says nothing as far as whether or not we overpayed for the pick itself.

I know you didn't but I'm telling you why they want picks. And if that pick directly results in the money to sign two top 20 draft guys then I'd say it definitely factors into how much we paid.

[bravesfanforlife88]

We all know how much pitching we have in the organization so trading two guys we figure not to be in our plans for a pick is not too bad.....ill take Ellis, Newcomb, Jenkins, etc over them

[GovClintonTyree]

Barker has a deceptive delivery that helps him too, one scout called him a right handed Alex Wood in a sense. He's turned into a real find IMO. Belicik is another good prospect that has been great in Rome. I like his potential quite a bit as well.

Well, maybe. Except Wood touches 94.

[bravos4evr]

There was nothing horrible about this trade. We traded two low-end guys for the number 76 pick. Lol

I agree, the odds of a 2nd rounder panning out vs Barker or Belcik is huge. Paying for draft picks is fine with me. it's not like we gave up last year's 2nd rounder or anything. 2 16th rd guys are doubtful to be anything more than org filler long term.

[ChadWC]

The 76th pick is worth give or take a thousand dollars about $800,000. Draft a college senior at 76 that's projected to go in the teens who will sign for $100,000 and use the $700,000 left over to pay guys at 40 and 44 so you don't accumulate penalties from the draft. It's simple.

[Braves1976]

Well, maybe. Except Wood touches 94.

Barker also touches 94 mph as far as top out speed, usually sits 89-93 mph range.

[Braves1976]

We all know how much pitching we have in the organization so trading two guys we figure not to be in our plans for a pick is not too bad.....ill take Ellis, Newcomb, Jenkins, etc over them

I wouldn't, Ellis is likely a reliever and has issue walking too many, Newcomb has bust written all over him if he cannot find some control and Jenkins looks like another reliever long-term.

[dak]

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[bravesfanforlife88]

I wouldn't, Ellis is likely a reliever and has issue walking too many, Newcomb has bust written all over him if he cannot find some control and Jenkins looks like another reliever long-term.

And they are still more highly regarded compared to the guys we traded....

[jsebe10]

So how does this work now with the DFA...do the Braves have to pay him a lump sum of $3.9m or just add his remaining salary to the payroll?

[dak]

So how does this work now with the DFA...do the Braves have to pay him a lump sum of $3.9m or just add his remaining salary to the payroll?

Braves are paying for Matusz' remaining salary only, which is about $2.8m. Anyone who signs Matusz to an MLB deal after he clears waivers pay him the prorated MLB minimum, which could save the braves $300k.

[bravos4evr]

The 76th pick is worth give or take a thousand dollars about $800,000. Draft a college senior at 76 that's projected to go in the teens who will sign for $100,000 and use the $700,000 left over to pay guys at 40 and 44 so you don't accumulate penalties from the draft. It's simple.

damn, beat me to it! Yep, they traded for the pick, but are planning on using $800k or so to buttress going overslot on #40 or #44 so as to up the overall draft value. $800k of draft slush fund is worth at least as much as $4m payroll dollars and 2 low level players because there is a limit with severe punishments for overage. This gives the team the option of something like this :

#3 pick Groome for $5.8 m
#40 pick Kieboom for $2.3m (using the $700k left from Groome)
#44 pick if a guy like Ray falls due to signability (and there's always someone who drops like a rock for $$$ or other reasons) , you could go $2.5m here using the overage from the Matusz deal

Basically, this trade puts us 2nd in overall bonus slot money by $800k below the Reds. This is a good thing!

[bravos4evr]

The 76th pick is worth give or take a thousand dollars about $800,000. Draft a college senior at 76 that's projected to go in the teens who will sign for $100,000 and use the $700,000 left over to pay guys at 40 and 44 so you don't accumulate penalties from the draft. It's simple.

I think if you sign em for $100k or less it doesn't count towards the bonus slot so the entire $800k would be left.

[Braves1976]

And they are still more highly regarded compared to the guys we traded....

Rankings change, I am going by what I see from them now. Plus this idea that I must go by others rankings all the time is silly. There are plenty of players that are not top prospects that turn into good MLB players. It reminds me of when folks on scout called me crazy for thinking so highly of Jonny Venters when he was still in the minors.

[CJ9]

And they are still more highly regarded compared to the guys we traded....

And it isn't even close.

[jsebe10]

Braves are paying for Matusz' remaining salary only, which is about $2.8m. Anyone who signs Matusz to an MLB deal after he clears waivers pay him the prorated MLB minimum, which could save the braves $300k.

Gotcha. Thanks man

[50PoundHead]

I don't understand this logic. We are sending Baltimore $3.9MM. How could we then use that same money to pay a top 20 talent at 40?

It's the slot money assigned to each pick in the draft. The slot value of the 76th pick is added to the Braves revenue pool. Gives them the opportunity to take a guy who won't sign for slot at #40 or #44 and divert money from later picks to get those types of guys. It just gives them more flexibility.

The $2.8 million they are paying Matusz only counts in overall resources and not the resources that can be expended in the draft, for which total bonus amounts are regulated for the first ten rounds.

[weso1]

This is a fair trade. A gamble on both sides. I have to think the Braves really have an idea in who they are going to select with this pick. The bad news is that the Braves also wanted Olivera. The good news is they traded for Mallex Smith.

[skillet]

It's the slot money assigned to each pick in the draft. The slot value of the 76th pick is added to the Braves revenue pool. Gives them the opportunity to take a guy who won't sign for slot at #40 or #44 and divert money from later picks to get those types of guys. It just gives them more flexibility.

The $2.8 million they are paying Matusz only counts in overall resources and not the resources that can be expended in the draft, for which total bonus amounts are regulated for the first ten rounds.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

[bravesfanMatt]

damn, beat me to it! Yep, they traded for the pick, but are planning on using $800k or so to buttress going overslot on #40 or #44 so as to up the overall draft value. $800k of draft slush fund is worth at least as much as $4m payroll dollars and 2 low level players because there is a limit with severe punishments for overage. This gives the team the option of something like this :

#3 pick Groome for $5.8 m
#40 pick Kieboom for $2.3m (using the $700k left from Groome)
#44 pick if a guy like Ray falls due to signability (and there's always someone who drops like a rock for $$$ or other reasons) , you could go $2.5m here using the overage from the Matusz deal

Basically, this trade puts us 2nd in overall bonus slot money by $800k below the Reds. This is a good thing!


your math is wrong we are around 12.3 mill and this 800 grand will put us only ahead of the Friars. Not sure about spending ~3 for 850 grand in draft.

at least keep the Reliever and see what you can do.. it is a lost season and doesn't hurt to try. I like the idea of buying draft picks.. just not at the expense of minor league depth plus money for only 850 grand..

Now I have said for a week or so that the Braves will get another draft pick.. When Coppi has a boner for something he gets it.. not always at a good price, but he will eventually get it.. He has a plan for this draft, so I expect something spectacular.. I can't take much more from them without really doubting their ability to rebuild.

[ChadWC]

This is a fair trade. A gamble on both sides. I have to think the Braves really have an idea in who they are going to select with this pick. The bad news is that the Braves also wanted Olivera. The good news is they traded for Mallex Smith.

Probably somebody who won't be a top 100 guy. Then the board will erupt with posts about how they are cheap etc when they don't draft a top 100 ranked guy at 76. Meanwhile they do things like this trade to acquire money and get blasted for trading a couple of fringe prospects who won't crack our top 30 and get roasted for how much they overpaid.

[ChadWC]

your math is wrong we are around 12.3 mill and this 800 grand will put us only ahead of the Friars. Not sure about spending ~3 for 850 grand in draft.

at least keep the Reliever and see what you can do.. it is a lost season and doesn't hurt to try. I like the idea of buying draft picks.. just not at the expense of minor league depth plus money for only 850 grand..

Now I have said for a week or so that the Braves will get another draft pick.. When Coppi has a boner for something he gets it.. not always at a good price, but he will eventually get it.. He has a plan for this draft, so I expect something spectacular.. I can't take much more from them without really doubting their ability to rebuild.

So you wouldn't pay the 2.3 million plus the signing bonus of the 40th pick to possibly acquire a guy who is top 10 in our system just because we needed to keep two guys who are never going to come close to it?

And if you don't acquire it for minor league depth and money, what do we pay to get the draft picks? Actual prospects?

[bravos4evr]

your math is wrong we are around 12.3 mill and this 800 grand will put us only ahead of the Friars. Not sure about spending ~3 for 850 grand in draft.

at least keep the Reliever and see what you can do.. it is a lost season and doesn't hurt to try. I like the idea of buying draft picks.. just not at the expense of minor league depth plus money for only 850 grand..

Now I have said for a week or so that the Braves will get another draft pick.. When Coppi has a boner for something he gets it.. not always at a good price, but he will eventually get it.. He has a plan for this draft, so I expect something spectacular.. I can't take much more from them without really doubting their ability to rebuild.

you are right, I must have misread the phllies number as something else. (oops!) right now it looks like this :

Reds- $13,923,700
Phils- $13,405,200
Braves- $13,224,100 (estimated)

still, $800k is a nice addition to the bonus pool

[Braves1976]

It was an easy guess IMO on why they wanted the pick, that is the $838,900 (figure assigned to the 76th pick) to their bonus pool. I mean we already knew from previous reports about that and it isn't hard to figure how they could use it. Further, I sure hope we make good use of it as Barker and Belicik look like future MLB players to me.

[bravesfanforlife88]

And it isn't even close.

Of course anyone can turn into a future HoF talent or even a productive major leaguer. But we are going off the word of our scouts that the potential we are giving up is not as good as the talent we have. And the talent we can get from the draft may be more valuable.

If we get a good bat in the draft due to this trade or a future stud I'm okay with the move

[auyushu]

damn, beat me to it! Yep, they traded for the pick, but are planning on using $800k or so to buttress going overslot on #40 or #44 so as to up the overall draft value. $800k of draft slush fund is worth at least as much as $4m payroll dollars and 2 low level players because there is a limit with severe punishments for overage. This is a good thing!

Yup, I liked Barker, but if this allows us to get two top notch hitting prospects in our top three picks it's well worth it.

[dak]

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[bravos4evr]

So you wouldn't pay the 2.3 million plus the signing bonus of the 40th pick to possibly acquire a guy who is top 10 in our system just because we needed to keep two guys who are never going to come close to it?

And if you don't acquire it for minor league depth and money, what do we pay to get the draft picks? Actual prospects?

I think he was just saying that they could have given Matusz a shot as he couldn't be a worse option than some of the guys in our pen already. I don't disagree

[weso1]

76 is a way way way higher pick than either of those two studs.

And Mike Piazza.

[Russ2dollas]

I get ppl liked those guys

I get low round picks can impact.

But the braves seem to be able to crank out 4th or 5th starters and bp guys with regularity. They'll draft a couple more guys in the 20 something round and replace them.

If we end up trading potential low ceiling pitching prospects for a chance at an impact arm or bat....I'm good with that

[auyushu]

I think he was just saying that they could have given Matusz a shot as he couldn't be a worse option than some of the guys in our pen already. I don't disagree

Yeah, not like we have some relief prospects beating down the door at the moment, no reason to not try and catch lightning in the bottle and flip him at the deadline if so.

[bravesfanMatt]

So you wouldn't pay the 2.3 million plus the signing bonus of the 40th pick to possibly acquire a guy who is top 10 in our system just because we needed to keep two guys who are never going to come close to it?

And if you don't acquire it for minor league depth and money, what do we pay to get the draft picks? Actual prospects?

Not sure 2.8 million is worth 850 grand. Not saying I don't want more picks to over slot. 850 grand is a lot of money but is it enough to block the Reds from taking who we want at #40. if we were talking 1.5+ then you might be talking. we gave up two prospects plus 2.8 million for a 850 grand.

take the example from above.. say you sign Groome at 5.7 million.. that leaves you 800 grand for #40.. now add another 800 grand and you have 1.6 million more to go to #40.. that puts that pick at around 12 pick value. So basically you could get a ~15th best player at 40 if the Reds don't steal him. Then you can use full allotment for #44.. junk player at #76.. I don't know.. it might be a good call.. Just the reds scare me.

[bravesfanforlife88]

More odd than anything else. Matusz has to feel kind of crappy. I wouldn''t be surprised if he is flipped at the deadline.

I like both Barker and Belicek, but they are more depth than anything else. Of course, who would have thought Williams Perez would have been in the big league rotation three years ago.

Matusz was already designated

[clvclv]

Buying dollars. Matusz will be DFA'd in short order.

[skillet]

Yeah, not like we have some relief prospects beating down the door at the moment, no reason to not try and catch lightning in the bottle and flip him at the deadline if so.

Yea I don't get why we dfa'd him? Heck he was pretty darn good the past 3 years. Why not at least give him a shot to see if he rebounds and then maybe flip him at the deadline? Odd.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Not sure 2.8 million is worth 850 grand. Not saying I don't want more picks to over slot. 850 grand is a lot of money but is it enough to block the Reds from taking who we want at #40. if we were talking 1.5+ then you might be talking. we gave up two prospects plus 2.8 million for a 850 grand.

take the example from above.. say you sign Groome at 5.7 million.. that leaves you 800 grand for #40.. now add another 800 grand and you have 1.6 million more to go to #40.. that puts that pick at around 12 pick value. So basically you could get a ~15th best player at 40 if the Reds don't steal him. Then you can use full allotment for #44.. junk player at #76.. I don't know.. it might be a good call.. Just the reds scare me.


I have a feeling we may not be done. Could see another one or two of these types of deals

[bravos4evr]

Not sure 2.8 million is worth 850 grand. Not saying I don't want more picks to over slot. 850 grand is a lot of money but is it enough to block the Reds from taking who we want at #40. if we were talking 1.5+ then you might be talking. we gave up two prospects plus 2.8 million for a 850 grand.

take the example from above.. say you sign Groome at 5.7 million.. that leaves you 800 grand for #40.. now add another 800 grand and you have 1.6 million more to go to #40.. that puts that pick at around 12 pick value. So basically you could get a ~15th best player at 40 if the Reds don't steal him. Then you can use full allotment for #44.. junk player at #76.. I don't know.. it might be a good call.. Just the reds scare me.

Reds have an edge, but i reckon there will be two guys around 40 and 44 we will want to go overslot for.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Yea I don't get why we dfa'd him? Heck he was pretty darn good the past 3 years. Why not at least give him a shot to see if he rebounds and then maybe flip him at the deadline? Odd.

EoF has the Keith Lockhart pictures and the FO had their hands tied. They had to keep EoF over Matusz

[ChadWC]

Not sure 2.8 million is worth 850 grand. Not saying I don't want more picks to over slot. 850 grand is a lot of money but is it enough to block the Reds from taking who we want at #40. if we were talking 1.5+ then you might be talking. we gave up two prospects plus 2.8 million for a 850 grand.

take the example from above.. say you sign Groome at 5.7 million.. that leaves you 800 grand for #40.. now add another 800 grand and you have 1.6 million more to go to #40.. that puts that pick at around 12 pick value. So basically you could get a ~15th best player at 40 if the Reds don't steal him. Then you can use full allotment for #44.. junk player at #76.. I don't know.. it might be a good call.. Just the reds scare me.

I guess you'll have to pretend whoever the over slot guy is, add 2.8 million to his payment. It's still peanuts in the grand scheme and if money isn't a problem, we shouldn't worry about it if they are willing to do it. I just get tired of hearing over and over they are cheap and then they start buying picks and then people freak out.

I don't think the $850 is about blocking anybody. But guys tell teams all the time I will not sign if you draft me and teams don't pick them. Like Kolby Allard refusing to throw for anybody but the Braves or Daz Cameron telling everyone he won't sign with them because he had the deal in place with the Astros before the draft.

[bravesfanMatt]

I have a feeling we may not be done. Could see another one or two of these types of deals

I still think Coppi will be going after more picks too.. I am hoping for Oakland's pick, but that might cost a lot.

[bravos4evr]

I still think Coppi will be going after more picks too.. I am hoping for Oakland's pick, but that might cost a lot.

was thinking this too, maybe give them our number #40 pick and the #76 to move up to #31?

edit: #35 I meant

[goldfly]

Can't believe we sold the farm for Matusz

[ChadWC]

was thinking this too, maybe give them our number #40 pick and the #76 to move up to #31?

edit: #35 I meant

Can't trade the 76th pick. Only allowed to trade picks once. Only competitive balance picks can be traded.

[bravesfanforlife88]

I have not paid too much attention to the rules. But what is the affect of the mlb player draft as opposed to the international draft?

[Enscheff]

I don't understand this logic. We are sending Baltimore $3.9MM. How could we then use that same money to pay a top 20 talent at 40?

Why would you condemn a trade when you have zero knowledge about the draft/financial rules of baseball? Typical ignorant angry comments?

[bravos4evr]

Can't trade the 76th pick. Only allowed to trade picks once. Only competitive balance picks can be traded.

ahhh didn't know we could trade em only once (and yeah I meant the #35 comp pick)

[bravos4evr]

I have not paid too much attention to the rules. But what is the affect of the mlb player draft as opposed to the international draft?

each have their own designated set of bonus slot limits. (and there isn't an international draft, just an alloted amt of $$$ for each team and 100% taxes on all overages. and if you go over you cannot sign any int. players for more than $300k for the next 2 signing periods)) But in the regular draft, if you go over your money there are stiff fines and draft pick losses for going over your total.

[ChadWC]

I have not paid too much attention to the rules. But what is the affect of the mlb player draft as opposed to the international draft?

No such thing as an international draft.

[bravesfanforlife88]

each have their own designated set of bonus slot limits. (and there isn't an international draft, just an alloted amt of $$$ for each team and 100% taxes on all overages. and if you go over you cannot sign any int. players for more than $300k for the next 2 signing periods)) But in the regular draft, if you go over your money there are stiff fines and draft pick losses for going over your total.

Meant international signing. But makes sense. I know we figure to spend big on both ends

[bravos4evr]

yep, I figure they will blow it out on the International front this year. They have been connected with 3 or 4 of the top 20 guys (including consensus #1 Kevin Maitan) might as well use the saved payroll $$$ to buy a future.

[bravesfanforlife88]

yep, I figure they will blow it out on the International front this year. They have been connected with 3 or 4 of the top 20 guys (including consensus #1 Kevin Maitan) might as well use the saved payroll $$$ to buy a future.

I'm hoping maitan is the stud everyone thinks he will be. If the braves can get some good bats in the international signing class, getting Groome at #3 could be great. That kid is said to be a possible TOR starter

[bravesfanMatt]

I guess you'll have to pretend whoever the over slot guy is, add 2.8 million to his payment. It's still peanuts in the grand scheme and if money isn't a problem, we shouldn't worry about it if they are willing to do it. I just get tired of hearing over and over they are cheap and then they start buying picks and then people freak out.

I don't think the $850 is about blocking anybody. But guys tell teams all the time I will not sign if you draft me and teams don't pick them. Like Kolby Allard refusing to throw for anybody but the Braves or Daz Cameron telling everyone he won't sign with them because he had the deal in place with the Astros before the draft.

imagine taking Lewis at 3. I have a good feeling he would under slot by a lot. maybe sign him for 4 million. that leaves you 2.5 million plus the 800 grand to over slot both 40 and 44.. at around 15 pick value..

[ChadWC]

imagine taking Lewis at 3. I have a good feeling he would under slot by a lot. maybe sign him for 4 million. that leaves you 2.5 million plus the 800 grand to over slot both 40 and 44.. at around 15 pick value..

I've read Lewis is a big number to sign. He's also got a lot of leverage.

[Russ2dollas]

Why would Lewis be under? He's being rumored at 2. He can go back to school.

[bravos4evr]

I would think Groome would be a better bet to be under slot than Lewis. Lots of risk for HS arms to go to college and get injured. but hell, if you look at the history of the draft it seems to be all over the place who goes over slot and who goes under in the top 10 picks.

[ChadWC]

I would think Groome would be a better bet to be under slot than Lewis. Lots of risk for HS arms to go to college and get injured. but hell, if you look at the history of the draft it seems to be all over the place who goes over slot and who goes under in the top 10 picks.

Groome wants number 1 overall money.

[NinersSBChamps]

Pointless trade all around.

[bravos4evr]

LOL, good luck Brady Aiken if that's the case. If I were a prep arm drafted top ten, I'd sign as fast as I could and report to play. They carry the highest amount of long term injury risk and value loss of any position at any level. I'm not saying take $2m at #3, but if they offer you $5m you counter with $6m and settle at $5.5 m and be happy you have life changing money. Maybe you stay healthy in college and maybe you also perform well, but if you don't, and you fall, you might end up with nothing or settle for $250k from the 4th rd later.

[ChadWC]

Pointless trade all around.

Then why chime in? Everybody knows major league players never played in the minors. Acquiring minor league assets is pointless. At least in your world those things are true.

[bravos4evr]

Pointless trade all around.

"Voted Worst Poster of 2015
(Co-Winner)"

ahhh, it all makes sense now

[rico43]

Just an odd thought about Matusz ... Just because the Braves are DFA, it doesn't mean that he can't clear waivers, be outrighted and drop off the 40-man. He was DFA, not released outright. He could still stick around with the Braves.

[Oklahomabrave]

Great trade. Wouldn't be surprised to see a few more relatively soon.

[bravesfanforlife88]

In other news the O's just traded 2 international slots to the reds

[bravesfanMatt]

Why would Lewis be under? He's being rumored at 2. He can go back to school.

he could go back to college for his senior year. But I would still think he slots under. 4 was a little low, I agree.

There has been rumors that he wants to play for the Braves as well. I don't have any sources for it. it might have been blog rumors, I just can't remember.

[smootness]

I have a feeling we may not be done. Could see another one or two of these types of deals

This. Also, we may already know who the Reds are zeroing in on with their second pick, and we want somebody different.

[bravos4evr]

So much back and forth on the top 5 for the draft this year, I think I have seen every possible configuration of Groome, Puk, Lewis, Pint, Moniak , Rutheford and Ray you can get (as well as a few other guys thrown in the mix)

[The Chosen One]

I mean Lewis is a local kid like Heyward was. June draft cannot get here soon enough! Heyward grew up a Yanks fan but I think Lewis was a Bravos fan always.

[smootness]

imagine taking Lewis at 3. I have a good feeling he would under slot by a lot. maybe sign him for 4 million. that leaves you 2.5 million plus the 800 grand to over slot both 40 and 44.. at around 15 pick value..

The problem is, if you're looking to get a guy projected to go 15-20, you're probably going to have to pay more than that slot value. Because otherwise, there's no reason for him to tell teams in that range he won't for slot value. He has to have a figure from us above that slot in order to have teams shy away.

[smootness]

I've read Lewis is a big number to sign. He's also got a lot of leverage.

Not really. If he goes back to school, he loses all his leverage and teams know that. So he has some leverage but not a ton. College juniors often sign for under slot at the top of the draft.

[smootness]

Groome wants number 1 overall money.

Where have you read this?

[bravos4evr]

The problem is, if you're looking to get a guy projected to go 15-20, you're probably going to have to pay more than that slot value. Because otherwise, there's no reason for him to tell teams in that range he won't for slot value. He has to have a figure from us above that slot in order to have teams shy away.

true, but let's say a guy projected to go 15th-18th wants more $$$, Braves could maybe throw $3.2m (slot is $2.6 or so avg for 15-18) at him at #40 and then use the #76 spot to go for a guy who only needs $100k to sign. then at #44 they go at slot and are right on track for the rest of their top 10 rds

[bravesfanMatt]

The problem is, if you're looking to get a guy projected to go 15-20, you're probably going to have to pay more than that slot value. Because otherwise, there's no reason for him to tell teams in that range he won't for slot value. He has to have a figure from us above that slot in order to have teams shy away.


right, I under valued Lewis.. but my math was for a 12th pick slot value.. that is why I said 15th best player. you would be over the 15 slot value by a good bit.

so say Lewis/Groome signs for 5.5. that is 1 million in savings. plus you have 800 grand for 76. lets round up to 2 million for easy math. #40 and 44 have 1.6 and 1.4 respectively. So that is another 3 million. So now you have 5 million for those two picks.

you could then over slot #40 at 3.5 million which is basically #10 slot money and leave the 1.5 for 44..
or
you could over slot #40 and #44 at 2.5 million and both of those would be around #23 type players. but you could grab two.

[bravos4evr]

Where have you read this?

I am interested too as the consensus online from scouting experts seems to be that all of the top 10 guys can be had for at or below slot.

[bravesfanMatt]

I am interested too as the consensus online from scouting experts seems to be that all of the top 10 guys can be had for at or below slot.

I saw something as well that said he has told teams that he wants #1 money.. that if he doesn't get highest bonus he will go to college. again, I have read a lot of different articles on the draft and some are just fans like you and me blogging.. I wouldn't say that as a fact unless I know who wrote the story.

[mfree80]

I saw something as well that said he has told teams that he wants #1 money.. that if he doesn't get highest bonus he will go to college. again, I have read a lot of different articles on the draft and some are just fans like you and me blogging.. I wouldn't say that as a fact unless I know who wrote the story.

He would have that leverage this year, but would then be left with no leverage at all next year. Seems kind of like a fairly empty threat and a big risk on his part.

[bravos4evr]

Wonder if the Bravos might do something weird like take Nick Senzel 3rd wayy under slot and go wayy over slot for their next 2 picks? Lots of talk out there that the Phillies are going AJ Puk #1 with the Reds going Lewis or Pint #2. If Groome really is asking for $7m+ then a guy like Senzel would be a good combo of skill and $$$.

[smootness]

I would be beyond shocked if a guy turned down top-5 slot money to go to college. I can see it toward the end of the first, and it's happened before there, but top 5? That would be crazy.

[cajunrevenge]

Wow are people really upset we traded 2 nothing prospects for the 37th pick in the draft.

[bravesfanMatt]

Wow are people really upset we traded 2 nothing prospects for the 37th pick in the draft.

me thinks you have that wrong... try 76th pick

[Preacher]

i applaud this move.

Like every fan base we tend to overrate our own prospects - we didn't trade two 'nobodies' but we didn't trade anything special and we certainly didn't put a dent in our pitching depth.

Baker has had a fine season but long term how many starting pitchers does he slot behind in our system? Folty, Blair, Teheran, Wisler, Perez, Jenkins, Newcombe, sims, Soroka, allard, Gant, povse, wiegel - I could keep going.....

What good is accumulating all that pitching depth if you don't use it?? The 76th pick and that slot money represents upside that Baker/Belichek don't have.

Braves fans complain when all we do is trade for pitching, then braves fans complain when we trade that pitching in a reasonable deal.

[Hudson2]

This is a win without question. If we could get the A's 37th pick we'd be in excellent shape.

[GovClintonTyree]

EoF has the Keith Lockhart pictures and the FO had their hands tied. They had to keep EoF over Matusz

Plausible

[cajunrevenge]

Thats what I meant, I am high af.

[goldfly]

Only some people here/the internet where you could find people who hate this trade

[cajunrevenge]

Somewhere I am sure Thethe is livid.

[yeezus]

Then why chime in? Everybody knows major league players never played in the minors. Acquiring minor league assets is pointless. At least in your world those things are true.

he has no idea, at all, what he's talking about. just ignore him. he doesn't understand really anything.

[striker42]

We traded a couple guys who didn't have a ton of value and who didn't fit into our long term plans for a nice draft pick that no doubt fits into a bigger plan.

That's what I think get overlooked. Roy Clark and co have cooked up a scheme and Coppy has been working hard to get them the draft picks needed to make the scheme work. I think we'll be thrilled about all this come draft day.

[nsacpi]

My take

Expected value of the draft pick is about 1 win.

Expect value of Barker is about 0.5 wins.

Kicking in the dough and Belicek evens things out.

Fair trade.

[yeezus]

My take

Expected value of the draft pick is about 1 win.

Expect value of Barker is about 0.5 wins.

Kicking in the dough and Belicek evens things out.

Fair trade.

but I think the idea actually is acquiring the pick for the money it allots you, not the pick itself. so it kinda shakes that analysis up. certainly tough to quantify.

[nsacpi]

but I think the idea actually is acquiring the pick for the money it allots you, not the pick itself. so it kinda shakes that analysis up. certainly tough to quantify.

That's a plausible argument. That somehow the FO will find a way to leverage the draft pick so they get more value out of it than is normal. I have no idea how to quantify the extra value there. My instinct is that any extra value would not be that big. But you never know.

[Preacher]

but I think the idea actually is acquiring the pick for the money it allots you, not the pick itself. so it kinda shakes that analysis up. certainly tough to quantify.

Right exactly; its not the 76th pick that they necessarily got - its the money which may allow them to get a top-20ish guy at #40..... lots of ways that could shake out.

Its all about flexibility, the guy they want to fall might not; and they just end up grabbing BPA at #76 as well.

[Carp]

Barker isn't a non prospect, which is why I don't like it. We took on a good bit of salary and sent them a starting pitching prospect who is currently dominating AA with a 3+ K/BB ratio. He may not have been an elite prospect, but, imo, he is worth more than 7th pick in the draft (and the 2.8 million still owed to Matusz).

[yeezus]

Barker isn't a non prospect, which is why I don't like it. We took on a good bit of salary and sent them a starting pitching prospect who is currently dominating AA with a 3+ K/BB ratio. He may not have been an elite prospect, but, imo, he is worth more than 7th pick in the draft (and the 2.8 million still owed to Matusz).

there are so many guys in the minors like Barker. so many. we're shooting for upside here.

[CJ9]

I like Barker, but we're talking about a 23-year-old with eight good starts in Double A. Before this season, his numbers are average at best. I don't see any real downside to this.

[50PoundHead]

Just an odd thought about Matusz ... Just because the Braves are DFA, it doesn't mean that he can't clear waivers, be outrighted and drop off the 40-man. He was DFA, not released outright. He could still stick around with the Braves.

And if someone claims him, you have the opportunity to work out a trade within 10 days. At least that's how the DFA used to work.

[CJ9]

Does anyone know when these compensation picks are usually announced and what the criteria is for the teams that get them? I'm thinking about the 2017 Draft and wondering if we'll get one instead of having to trade for them as we have now the past two years.

[smootness]

Barker isn't a non prospect, which is why I don't like it. We took on a good bit of salary and sent them a starting pitching prospect who is currently dominating AA with a 3+ K/BB ratio. He may not have been an elite prospect, but, imo, he is worth more than 7th pick in the draft (and the 2.8 million still owed to Matusz).

I've seen scouts say that he has a mediocre or even below-average fastball, so it's tough to call him much of a prospect, even with his success. We're actually getting good value out of him. They are our 16th round picks from the last 2 years, I feel confident we can continue to find guys like them. Those are the kind of guys you trade at their peak value if possible to add higher-ceiling players, which is what we're attempting to do.

[smootness]

Does anyone know when these compensation picks are usually announced and what the criteria is for the teams that get them? I'm thinking about the 2017 Draft and wondering if we'll get one instead of having to trade for them as we have now the past two years.

Compensatory picks are given to teams who lose free agents that declined a QO. We probably won't get any next year unless we give Aybar a QO and he rejects it.

Competitive balance picks are awarded via a lottery system among the 10 smallest markets and revenue pools. We're not going to get any of those.

[CJ9]

Compensatory picks are given to teams who lose free agents that declined a QO. We probably won't get any next year unless we give Aybar a QO and he rejects it.

Competitive balance picks are awarded via a lottery system among the 10 smallest markets and revenue pools. We're not going to get any of those.

My bad, I was referring to those competitive balance picks. That sucks.

[gilesfan]

I get the reasoning behind these types of deals but money still counts. I don't really understand paying 3.9 million for the 76th pick.

[Carp]

there are so many guys in the minors like Barker. so many. we're shooting for upside here.

Just because there are many, doesn't mean we should give them away. I just don't like the value given up for the value received. It isn't that critical in the grand scheme of things, but I still would rather "win" trades, even the marginal ones

[yeezus]

Just because there are many, doesn't mean we should give them away. I just don't like the value given up for the value received. It isn't that critical in the grand scheme of things, but I still would rather "win" trades, even the marginal ones

well according to most we did win this trade.

[yeezus]

I get the reasoning behind these types of deals but money still counts. I don't really understand paying 3.9 million for the 76th pick.

it's actually like $2 something mil, and that money doesn't really mean anything this year.

[yeezus]

Just because there are many, doesn't mean we should give them away. I just don't like the value given up for the value received. It isn't that critical in the grand scheme of things, but I still would rather "win" trades, even the marginal ones

because there so many of them, fringe prospects with low upside (as in, lucky to be a 5th starter for a year or two), there isn't much value to them. they were 16th round picks. finding guys like them isn't exactly difficult.

paying some excess cash and excess pitchers for a shot at much higher upside is what we should be doing.

[mqt]

Just because there are many, doesn't mean we should give them away. I just don't like the value given up for the value received. It isn't that critical in the grand scheme of things, but I still would rather "win" trades, even the marginal ones


I think at the absolute worst we had an even trade in this case, but this seems like a clear win for the Braves. If this trade allows us to take Groome and another top 20 type HS player that falls due to concerns over signability, this is more than worth it. We just won't see the fruits of this deal for another couple weeks.

[mqt]

I get the reasoning behind these types of deals but money still counts. I don't really understand paying 3.9 million for the 76th pick.

Think of it as essentially boosting the value of the 40th pick. Let's use this as a quick and dirty guide to the value of our pick: http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-net-value-of-draft-picks/

If we went with the expected value of the 40th pick, we're looking at a value of $18.6 million. However, knowing how the draft works, say we're getting the approximate value of a 21-25 pick due to going overslot thanks in part to the extra pool money and now we're looking at a value of $23.7 million. We spent $2 million in this trade by picking up Matusz, but the value would be $5 million in excess value.

Now, I understand it isn't nearly that simple for a number of reasons. For one thing, we'd be spending a million or two more in bonus money if it works out, which would even out the money. Also, it's obviously a gamble on our part that such a player would fall back to us. However, it's a gamble worth taking because we have a lot of holes to fill and this provides us a better chance to fill them.

[smootness]

it's actually like $2 something mil, and that money doesn't really mean anything this year.

Exactly. Sometimes money doesn't count, like when you have open space in this year's budget that won't be used for any other purpose after this year.

[gilesfan]

Think of it as essentially boosting the value of the 40th pick. Let's use this as a quick and dirty guide to the value of our pick: http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-net-value-of-draft-picks/

If we went with the expected value of the 40th pick, we're looking at a value of $18.6 million. However, knowing how the draft works, say we're getting the approximate value of a 21-25 pick due to going overslot thanks in part to the extra pool money and now we're looking at a value of $23.7 million. We spent $2 million in this trade by picking up Matusz, but the value would be $5 million in excess value.

Now, I understand it isn't nearly that simple for a number of reasons. For one thing, we'd be spending a million or two more in bonus money if it works out, which would even out the money. Also, it's obviously a gamble on our part that such a player would fall back to us. However, it's a gamble worth taking because we have a lot of holes to fill and this provides us a better chance to fill them.

Thanks for sharing, that is an excellent article that I've never read before. In terms of whether the money "means anything," it certainly does. Money can/could have bought FA players that would be valuable to other teams. I'm not saying it was a bad move, just that I'm not sure of it being a slam dunk move.

[conalthomas]

Not even close to being accurate. It's the money not the pick. They want to draft a first round guy at 40 and use this money to help pay for him and sign a college senior for $100,000 at 76. This has nothing to do with who is picked at 76.

90% of the people on this board are out of touch with reality. They complain like 14 year old school girls who had their cell phone taken by their parents. The Braves can do nothing right.

As the father of a 14 year old girl, I'd just like to say that many people are actually quite a bit worse.

[Knucksie]

What an unbelievably terrible trade. We just got butt ****ed with no lubricant at all. Goddamn :facepalm:

Yeah, it'll paralyze the franchise for years to come.

[The Chosen One]

I don't really see the downside of this trade. Other than the fact some here have a metaphorical connection like zeets because they watched these kid grow up and hate to see us ship them off.

[conalthomas]

Yeah, it'll paralyze the franchise for years to come.

My feelings exactly.

[bravos4evr]

Just because there are many, doesn't mean we should give them away. I just don't like the value given up for the value received. It isn't that critical in the grand scheme of things, but I still would rather "win" trades, even the marginal ones

here's the thing. $2.8m of payroll money is worth at least as much as $840k of draft bonus money because of the severe penalties incurred for overage. (and because you must trade to acquire more bonus funds) the excess value of the #76 pick is worth like $5m, so if you look at it, we broke about even in just pure excess value. BUT, when you consider our specific draft situation, adding $840k to the kitty gives us a lot of leverage to increase the value of our #40 and #44 picks in excess of their estimated value.

[ramadon101]

This is a solid deal. I'd like to see more like this, actually.

FanGraphs write up on the trade: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-orioles-sold-a-draft-pick-again/

I agree with the exception that the two arms we sent over may have more value than "non-prospects" entirely (I wouldn't be as dismissive as FG was), but I'd still make the swap every day of the week given what it means for our draft pool and leverage with higher ceiling talent.

[mqt]

This is a solid deal. I'd like to see more like this, actually.

FanGraphs write up on the trade: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-orioles-sold-a-draft-pick-again/

I agree with the exception that the two arms we sent over may have more value than "non-prospects" entirely (I wouldn't be as dismissive as FG was), but I'd still make the swap every day of the week given what it means for our draft pool and leverage with higher ceiling talent.

I kind of agree with your point, but if a statistically oriented site is dismissing Baltimore's return as non-prospects, I'd cite that as pretty solid evidence that we made out pretty well.

[ramadon101]

I kind of agree with your point, but if a statistically oriented site is dismissing Baltimore's return as non-prospects, I'd cite that as pretty solid evidence that we made out pretty well.

Oh I agree with that - like I said, it's a good trade and one I'd make every day of the week without blinking. I just didn't want to conflate the notion that "non-prospect" equates to "no value whatsoever" -- one or both could be effective middle relief options in the short run and that has some minimal value. But I agree that they aren't "prospects" in the traditional, upside sense, and that this kind of trade is EXACTLY what a rebuilding organization should be making.

[cajunrevenge]

Whoever they draft at 76 will instantly be a higher rated prospect than either player we traded.

[mqt]

Whoever they draft at 76 will instantly be a higher rated prospect than either player we traded.

My hope is that this is not necessarily true. If we use pick 76 to do anything other than add to our pool at 40 or 44, I'll be highly disappointed.

[nsacpi]

Whoever they draft at 76 will instantly be a higher rated prospect than either player we traded.
Maybe. Maybe not. Lucas Herbert was our second round pick last year. I have him as our #17 prospect. I had Barker at #21. Minter and Guardado were taken in the third round and I have Barker ahead of those two.

[smootness]

Maybe. Maybe not. Lucas Herbert was our second round pick last year. I have him as our #17 prospect. I had Barker at #21. Minter and Guardado were taken in the third round and I have Barker ahead of those two.

All of these things are opinions, but that is far higher on Barker than anybody else in baseball will be.

[nsacpi]

All of these things are opinions, but that is far higher on Barker than anybody else in baseball will be.

Our esteemed rico43 has Barker at 25.

[smootness]

Our esteemed rico43 has Barker at 25.

Fair enough?

The consensus among national people seems to be that both Barker and Belicek are basically non-prospects. Not saying they're right, but it's definitely something to consider when judging their value.

[nsacpi]

Fair enough?

The consensus among national people seems to be that both Barker and Belicek are basically non-prospects. Not saying they're right, but it's definitely something to consider when judging their value.

I don't want to make too much of it. I posted earlier that prospects in that range have an expected surplus value of 0.5 WAR. But I also wanted to respond to the post that whoever we drafted with pick 76 will instantly be a better prospect. As I said maybe, maybe not.

[smootness]

I don't want to make too much of it. I posted earlier that prospects in that range have an expected surplus value of 0.5 WAR. But I also wanted to respond to the post that whoever we drafted with pick 76 will instantly be a better prospect. As I said maybe, maybe not.

Yeah, I agree with you there. I will say that I will always prefer taking the chance on the 76 pick because I'll always take the chance on a higher-ceiling guy. If you get enough, some will pan out.

[rico43]

Maybe. Maybe not. Lucas Herbert was our second round pick last year. I have him as our #17 prospect. I had Barker at #21. Minter and Guardado were taken in the third round and I have Barker ahead of those two.

Now healthy, Minter is a far better prospect than Barker, and will likely be a bullpen candidate within a year.

[rico43]

Fair enough?

The consensus among national people seems to be that both Barker and Belicek are basically non-prospects. Not saying they're right, but it's definitely something to consider when judging their value.

I am definitely NOT national. Nor am I nationwide.

[bravos4evr]

I am definitely NOT national. Nor am I nationwide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfEgHWuGSio

[The Chosen One]

I am definitely NOT national. Nor am I nationwide.

But you're on our side.