Best trade partner?

[bravesfanforlife88]

The Red Sox are said to be looking for both starters and relievers. Wouldn't it make sense to try and match up a trade of Teheran and Viz for a big package in return. They have quite a bit of offensive prospects available

[PurpleBrave]

I still think Texas is a good match. They have a deep system and have needs where we may have players available. They are pretty deep in positional/hitting prospects...may not have the pitching prospects to our liking.

[nsacpi]

I would trade Teheran for Moncada straight up. With Benitendi or Devers, they would have to add a significant asset to get Teheran. But one of those two would be enough to fetch Vizcaino imo. Under those scenarios the Sox are overpaying. But I want to win those trades. And we should be able to do so by exploiting the eagerness of contending teams to do something this year. If not, keep what we have.

[nsacpi]

I still think Texas is a good match. They have a deep system and have needs where we may have players available. They are pretty deep in positional/hitting prospects...may not have the pitching prospects to our liking.

I would do Teheran for Gallo straight up. Don't have interest in Brinson.

[zbhargrove]

I think if the Sox really believe this could be a world series year with another starter, they may be willing to give up Moncada... I would if I thought it would get me to the WS.

[zbhargrove]

And with how much pitching we drafted... I'm fully expecting Teheran to be dealt with his high value right now... also especially since we are still a couple years away from legit contending.

[clvclv]

They're also apparently looking for a platoon partner for Chris Young in LF.

Julio, Vizcaino, and Markakis (with his salary paid for the rest of this season) for Benintendi, Devers, and Anderson Espinoza. Make Sims a Closer.

[Russ2dollas]

I think the sox are a great match.

But they have to give up some studs. We don't need to trade Viz or Tehran. We have a lot of high contact no power guys. We have a lot of mid rotation or back of the rotation starters.

I'm only giving those guys up for some impact. Even if it seems silly to give up Tehran for one minor leaguer, he needs to be a guy that can make an impact. Has to be raking at AA or better IMO.

[UNCBlue012]

The Sox are a perfect match. That rotation is horrible, add Teheran with the offense and that really pushes them into a solid position. They need two solid rotation arms honestly, but you do what you do. If they had Viz to pitch the 8th, with Kimbrel to finish, jeez.

[bravesfanMatt]

The Sox are a perfect match. That rotation is horrible, add Teheran with the offense and that really pushes them into a solid position. They need two solid rotation arms honestly, but you do what you do. If they had Viz to pitch the 8th, with Kimbrel to finish, jeez.

I think adding Viz and JT to that team makes every starter that much better. You add a #2 starter to them and slide everyone else down.. then you shorten the games by another inning and you have a very good team. I seriously would slot them up there with the Cubs at that point. The offense is better than the Cubs, The starters would be worse than the Cubs, the pen would be better..

[KB21]

I think the sox are a great match.

But they have to give up some studs. We don't need to trade Viz or Tehran. We have a lot of high contact no power guys. We have a lot of mid rotation or back of the rotation starters.

I'm only giving those guys up for some impact. Even if it seems silly to give up Tehran for one minor leaguer, he needs to be a guy that can make an impact. Has to be raking at AA or better IMO.

Viz and Teheran for Moncada, Benitendi, and Chavis.

[Heyward]

Think Julio's certainly trade bait with all the pitching drafted.

Sox are a good match.

If they do think Julio could be the missing piece, really do wonder if they'd trade Moncada for him. Dombrowski isnt shy about trading prospects.

Giants are in need of a closer/set up guy, wonder if they'd trade Beede.

[bravescountry]

IMO, there are 3 good trade partners for Teheran and Vizcaino
1) Boston Red Sox- they can use both Teheran and Vizcaino: I'd WANT to get Moncada, but a package of 3ish prospects including Benintendi would get it done for me
2) Texas Rangers- not sure if they need much help, but Darvish got injured again (I think): A package including Brinson, Beras, and 1-2 lower prospect would work for me.

3) And my favorite, the Pittsburgh Pirates: They could trade for just Teheran or both.
Any package with AUSTIN MEADOWS (I love him as a player and have wanted him since he got drafted) would make my do FLIPS. He's raking in AA this season and he'd be our elite 5-tooled OF prospect and player by mid 2017. If we can get him in any trade not including Freeman, I'd love Coppy/Hart even more..

[GovClintonTyree]

Boston, Pittsburgh, Seattle. Seattle for Viz.

[mfree80]

Viz and Teheran for Moncada, Benitendi, and Chavis.

I think Moncada is probably off the table, but the others along with Devers, and the currently injured Swihart are probably in play. Two of them for Teheran, or three for Teheran plus would be a pretty good haul, and likely fill two of our three glaring holes for next year.

[bravescountry]

Viz and Teheran for Moncada, Benitendi, and Chavis.

Just Moncada would be good enough...

[bravesfanforlife88]

My thoughts exactly, and Dombrowski has never hesitated to blow up the farm in order to make the MLB team better. See the Tulo deal in Toronto.... Moncada would be a great pick up for us. He is hitting .299 with 3HR's and 36 SB

[cajunrevenge]

I agree about Dombrowski being loose with the prospects but what involvement did he have in the Tulo trade? I wouldnt trade Teheran unless its a kings ransom. I really dont want to trade either but I think with a strong demand and little supply left I think we will get that haul. The new wild card should help because no one wants to be in the play-in game. We should be able to pit division opponets against each other like if the Red Sox dont want to give us what we want we can turn around and open negotiations with the Orioles.

[praeceps93]

My thoughts exactly, and Dombrowski has never hesitated to blow up the farm in order to make the MLB team better. See the Tulo deal in Toronto.... Moncada would be a great pick up for us. He is hitting .299 with 3HR's and 36 SB

It's damn near a perfect storm for us as far as the Sox are concerned. Playoff push, stacked farm, exec that's known for shipping out prospects, BIG need for our best trade chip(s).

[bravesfanforlife88]

I could be mistaken, but I could have sworn that he had a big portion to do with making that trade happen, then left for the Rex Sox after the season.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Cancel that, was thinking of Anthopoulos

[Heyward]

I could be mistaken, but I could have sworn that he had a big portion to do with making that trade happen, then left for the Rex Sox after the season.

He had nothing to do with the Tulo deal.

He was with Detroit.

[Hudson2]

Boston needs Teheran and could really use Viz. Benintendi without a doubt would have to be the centerpiece. Him, Devers/Shaw, and Swihart would be my deal for both.

[Southcack77]

Boston needs Teheran and could really use Viz. Benintendi without a doubt would have to be the centerpiece. Him, Devers/Shaw, and Swihart would be my deal for both.


I kind of think Austin Meadows is the guy that stands out to me. Might be hard to get Pittsburgh on board, but they've got three young OF locked in for three years, a fourth moved to 1B and slugging at AAA, and another high level OF prospect just below him.

If you can work something out with Boston's top prospect guys, even if it involves sending some prospects back that would make sense. I guess the assumption is they would not move Moncado, but I feel like they've moved premium prospects before.

Let's say you could move Teheran, Vizcaino, Ruiz or Riley, Tyrell Jenkins for Moncado, Devers, Swihart. Is that feasible?

Or same package for Meadows, one of Pitts young catchers, and another prospect.

Is that close to being accepted?

[bravos4evr]

I kind of think Austin Meadows is the guy that stands out to me. Might be hard to get Pittsburgh on board, but they've got three young OF locked in for three years, a fourth moved to 1B and slugging at AAA, and another high level OF prospect just below him.

If you can work something out with Boston's top prospect guys, even if it involves sending some prospects back that would make sense. I guess the assumption is they would not move Moncado, but I feel like they've moved premium prospects before.

Let's say you could move Teheran, Vizcaino, Ruiz or Riley, Tyrell Jenkins for Moncado, Devers, Swihart. Is that feasible?

Or same package for Meadows, one of Pitts young catchers, and another prospect.

Is that close to being accepted?

hmmm. I tend to think that's about right on, but probably a slight overpay for the Braves. I'd want Benintendi,Devers, Chavis and Brock Holt (we could use another cheap utility guy) for the package you listed. If Swihart cannot catch, his value really becomes minimal.

[mfree80]

hmmm. I tend to think that's about right on, but probably a slight overpay for the Braves. I'd want Benintendi,Devers, Chavis and Brock Holt (we could use another cheap utility guy) for the package you listed. If Swihart cannot catch, his value really becomes minimal.

So is Swihart not catching because they have other guys ahead of him, or was he brutal as a Catcher. I thought I read that he was okay as a C. (I know he is hurt right now, but before).

[50PoundHead]

So is Swihart not catching because they have other guys ahead of him, or was he brutal as a Catcher. I thought I read that he was okay as a C. (I know he is hurt right now, but before).

There are supposedly concerns about Swihart's defense. I have no idea. Red Sox might be poised for an overpay because they need pitching and they have a lot of prospects.

I think Seattle would take a long look at both Teheran and Vizcaino.

Things will probably shake out over the next month with teams getting a better handle on where they sit in the pecking order for the post-season.

[bravos4evr]

So is Swihart not catching because they have other guys ahead of him, or was he brutal as a Catcher. I thought I read that he was okay as a C. (I know he is hurt right now, but before).

In his 78 game stint in 2015 his defensive metrics looked good. BUT, the talk is he hasn't been that good and we all know a small sample size can not tell the real story. SO, to be honest, I have no friggin clue. The stuff I read about him says no, he won't stick at catcher long term. But as I rarely watch red sox games, hard to say

[bravescountry]

I kind of think Austin Meadows is the guy that stands out to me. Might be hard to get Pittsburgh on board, but they've got three young OF locked in for three years, a fourth moved to 1B and slugging at AAA, and another high level OF prospect just below him.

If you can work something out with Boston's top prospect guys, even if it involves sending some prospects back that would make sense. I guess the assumption is they would not move Moncado, but I feel like they've moved premium prospects before.

Let's say you could move Teheran, Vizcaino, Ruiz or Riley, Tyrell Jenkins for Moncado, Devers, Swihart. Is that feasible?

Or same package for Meadows, one of Pitts young catchers, and another prospect.

Is that close to being accepted?

I love Meadows too- my favorite OF prospect in baseball. I said this on page 1, if we can get him in a trade for Teheran (especially bc Cole got injured), I'd do flips.
My favorite trade for Teheran and Vizcaino is for Meadows + McGuire + Hayes/lower prospect if Hayes is too much

I'd do literal FLIPS.

[Braves1976]

Texas is contending and only has three relievers they can count on. Dyson is now their closer but I'm sure they'd prefer him setting up again. So I could see them asking about Vizciano and maybe one of our other relievers too. Maybe between them and Seattle one of them wants him bad enough to give up a lot.

[PurpleBrave]

Texas is contending and only has three relievers they can count on. Dyson is now their closer but I'm sure they'd prefer him setting up again. So I could see them asking about Vizciano and maybe one of our other relievers too. Maybe between them and Seattle one of them wants him bad enough to give up a lot.


Dyson is a right handed Zach Britton. I think they're fine with him closing...but...they could definitely use Vizcaino

I think you guys thinking Boston would send us Moncada have been spoiled by dealing with the Dbacks. Moncada isn't going anywhere

[Horsehide Harry]

I think a lot of deals are about timing. Right now, the Rockies are trying really, really hard to move Jose Reyes, without success. The Braves might be able to swing a deal with them for Reyes, Dahl, McMahon and Nunez for Teheran with the Braves taking on all of Reyes' money. The Rocks move a guy they are desperate to move and gain a good SP while giving up a 3B who's blocked, a catcher who's blocked and a CF who they really wouldn't want to give up but could replace internally fairly easily. The Braves take a flyer on a top of the order type guy but get a catcher who isn't far away, a 3B with some power and a Georgia boy CF who has a chance to be a star.

[50PoundHead]

I think a lot of deals are about timing. Right now, the Rockies are trying really, really hard to move Jose Reyes, without success. The Braves might be able to swing a deal with them for Reyes, Dahl, McMahon and Nunez for Teheran with the Braves taking on all of Reyes' money. The Rocks move a guy they are desperate to move and gain a good SP while giving up a 3B who's blocked, a catcher who's blocked and a CF who they really wouldn't want to give up but could replace internally fairly easily. The Braves take a flyer on a top of the order type guy but get a catcher who isn't far away, a 3B with some power and a Georgia boy CF who has a chance to be a star.

I think the main question is why would the Rockies want a flyball heavy pitcher?

[Russ2dollas]

I kind of think Austin Meadows is the guy that stands out to me. Might be hard to get Pittsburgh on board, but they've got three young OF locked in for three years, a fourth moved to 1B and slugging at AAA, and another high level OF prospect just below him.

If you can work something out with Boston's top prospect guys, even if it involves sending some prospects back that would make sense. I guess the assumption is they would not move Moncado, but I feel like they've moved premium prospects before.

Let's say you could move Teheran, Vizcaino, Ruiz or Riley, Tyrell Jenkins for Moncado, Devers, Swihart. Is that feasible?

Or same package for Meadows, one of Pitts young catchers, and another prospect.

Is that close to being accepted?

Pitt crossed my mind too. They have of and catchers and would prize tehrans contract more than most.

I tend to think we'd ask for marte over meadows

[auyushu]

I tend to think we'd ask for marte over meadows

I'm sure we would, but Marte is more valuable than Julio so there is zero reason the Pirates would do that.

[zbhargrove]

I'm sure we would, but Marte is more valuable than Julio so there is zero reason the Pirates would do that.

Yah Marte is a young proven superstar that's still making pennies... a cornerstone of a playoff contending team... that would make zero sense.

[bravesfanMatt]

Yah Marte is a young proven superstar that's still making pennies... a cornerstone of a playoff contending team... that would make zero sense.

I know what Coppi has said, but no playoff team is giving up a regular young player of equal or greater value and control as JT. Why would they create a hole to fill a hole...

JT/FF/Viz are only getting traded if the team is willing to except prospects back. plus that is really the best way to maximize your value. my dream would be to target Bregman, but not sure the Stros are wanting to trade him..

[praeceps93]

I know what Coppi has said, but no playoff team is giving up a regular young player of equal or greater value and control as JT. Why would they create a hole to fill a hole...

JT/FF/Viz are only getting traded if the team is willing to except prospects back. plus that is really the best way to maximize your value. my dream would be to target Bregman, but not sure the Stros are wanting to trade him..

Unless it's an injury type deal, like with Swihart.

[zbhargrove]

Unless it's an injury type deal, like with Swihart.

But Swihart hasn't really proven anything. He did okay last year, but nothing special... and if he can't stick at catcher, he doesn't have much value

[Hudson2]

Bregman, Benintendi, Meadows, Dahl would be my main 4 targets for Teheran. If I didn't get one of them then I don't trade him.

[nsacpi]

Bregman, Benintendi, Meadows, Dahl would be my main 4 targets for Teheran. If I didn't get one of them then I don't trade him.

Moncada and Gallo would be the two guys I would shoot for.

[auyushu]

Bregman, Benintendi, Meadows, Dahl would be my main 4 targets for Teheran. If I didn't get one of them then I don't trade him.

This pretty much where I'm at, and I'd want a pretty solid side prospect if we are going for Meadows or Dahl (particularly with Dahl). Moncada would also be good of course (but them moving him is so unlikely I don't even consider it an option). And as nsacpi mentioned Gallo as well.

[zbhargrove]

Moncada and Gallo would be the two guys I would shoot for.

If you can add Moncada and Gallo... plus sign a servicable catcher with at least a bit of offensive upside (or even just keep Flowers for full time duty)... and add maybe one veteran SP and you're looking at an intriguing team... with still one of, if not the best, farm systems in the league.

[Hudson2]

Moncada and Gallo would be the two guys I would shoot for.

I'd be perfectly fine with them to and would prefer Moncada over Benintendi. I'm just not sure they would even entertain trading him. Gallo has the power we need and I'd take him over Brinson all day.

[Hudson2]

I don't wanna trade Teheran but after taking mainly pitching again this draft we have to trade him in order to get that bat we need for us to compete.

[DirkPiggler]

Benintendi is a nice player, and was a great college player for a year. I really enjoyed watching him carry the Hogs to the CWS. That said, I don't think the power he displayed as a sophomore is indicative of what he'll do in the big leagues. He's always going to be in the 5'10"/ 180 lb range. He went on a pretty strong workout regimen before last season to develop the power he has now, so I'm not sure how much room there is for him to get stronger.

I see his upside as being that of a young Nick Markakis with maybe better defense. Downside is a fourth outfielder. Really hope I'm wrong, even if the Braves don't end up picking him up via trade. If we're going to trade Teheran for hitting, I'd rather go in another direction.

[Oklahomabrave]

Benintendi is a nice player, and was a great college player for a year. I really enjoyed watching him carry the Hogs to the CWS. That said, I don't think the power he displayed as a sophomore is indicative of what he'll do in the big leagues. He's always going to be in the 5'10"/ 180 lb range. He went on a pretty strong workout regimen before last season to develop the power he has now, so I'm not sure how much room there is for him to get stronger.

I see his upside as being that of a young Nick Markakis with maybe better defense. Downside is a fourth outfielder. Really hope I'm wrong, even if the Braves don't end up picking him up via trade. If we're going to trade Teheran for hitting, I'd rather go in another direction.

Young Markakis was great, I'd be ecstatic with that on our team.

[DirkPiggler]

Young Markakis was great, I'd be ecstatic with that on our team.

Yes he was. I guess I'm mainly thinking that people are expecting Andrew to be the power bat we need for a corner outfield position. I don't see him as being a guy who ever slugs .500 or better, or hits more than 20 bombs in a good year. Not that he couldn't be a great player with that profile, but IMO we need to find someone who can hit the ball over the fence with some regularity if we're dealing our most valuable asset.

[zbhargrove]

Benintendi is a nice player, and was a great college player for a year. I really enjoyed watching him carry the Hogs to the CWS. That said, I don't think the power he displayed as a sophomore is indicative of what he'll do in the big leagues. He's always going to be in the 5'10"/ 180 lb range. He went on a pretty strong workout regimen before last season to develop the power he has now, so I'm not sure how much room there is for him to get stronger.

I see his upside as being that of a young Nick Markakis with maybe better defense. Downside is a fourth outfielder. Really hope I'm wrong, even if the Braves don't end up picking him up via trade. If we're going to trade Teheran for hitting, I'd rather go in another direction.

I don't see the love for Benintendi at all... not really what we need.

[Horsehide Harry]

I don't see the love for Benintendi at all... not really what we need.

Certainly not all we need...

[Hudson2]

Moncada doesn't really have much power either. If I had my choice of everybody it would be Bregman hands down.

[DirkPiggler]

Moncada doesn't really have much power either. If I had my choice of everybody it would be Bregman hands down.

I'm not sold on him either. He's put up huge numbers this year, but he's playing in a pretty extreme hitter's league. Not to mention our top two offensive prospects are shortstops. When they're that close to the majors I think the best player available thing goes out the window.

[bravescountry]

MEADOWS IS THE ANSWER TO OUR OF PROBLEMS!!!!
Only problem is that the Pirates are prospect and money savvy :/

[Heyward]

MEADOWS IS THE ANSWER TO OUR OF PROBLEMS!!!!
Only problem is that the Pirates are prospect and money savvy :/

Well McCutchen's deal expires in a few years, maybe they go with Marte, Polanco and Meadows in a few years.

[zbhargrove]

Moncada doesn't really have much power either. If I had my choice of everybody it would be Bregman hands down.

But in my scenario I also traded for Gallo

[Braves1976]

But in my scenario I also traded for Gallo

The only way I see Gallo possibly becoming available is if Rangers lose one of their top three starters. Darvish is being scratched tomorrow but they seem to think just minor issue with his neck and said common coming back from injury. But if that proves more serious then I could see them looking at Teheran. But not right now as their starters have been carrying them as their bullpen is really no better than ours--just used more effectively and a lot less thanks to the Rangers starting rotation.

That said, I am sure they'd want Vizciano given their bullpen issues but I don't see them giving up Gallo for him. I think they'll trade Profar before Gallo but even Profar wouldn't be available now with them contending and Beltre about to hit the 15-day DL.

[zbhargrove]

MEADOWS IS THE ANSWER TO OUR OF PROBLEMS!!!!
Only problem is that the Pirates are prospect and money savvy :/

Not sure Meadows is what we need either.

[zbhargrove]

The only way I see Gallo possibly becoming available is if Rangers lose one of their top three starters. Darvish is being scratched tomorrow but they seem to think just minor issue with his neck and said common coming back from injury. But if that proves more serious then I could see them looking at Teheran. But not right now as their starters have been carrying them as their bullpen is really no better than ours--just used more effectively and a lot less thanks to the Rangers starting rotation.

That said, I am sure they'd want Vizciano given their bullpen issues but I don't see them giving up Gallo for him. I think they'll trade Profar before Gallo but even Profar wouldn't be available now with them contending and Beltre about to hit the 15-day DL.

It wouldn't be just Viz... It would be Viz and one of our good pitching prospects not named Allard or Newcomb

[Heyward]

Gut the farm for Arenado but doubt he'd sign an extension

[nsacpi]

Moncada doesn't really have much power either.

I guess the question is whether we ought to focus on good players or give brownie points to players with power when evaluating value.

[nsacpi]

MEADOWS IS THE ANSWER TO OUR OF PROBLEMS!!!!
Only problem is that the Pirates are prospect and money savvy :/

Yeah, I don't think the Pirates would overpay for Teheran. Any trade with them would likely be fair value. Red Sox might overpay. Rangers and Mariners might. Not the Pirates. And I might add not the Indians. Smart smaller to mid market teams like the Indians and Pirates realize they are not really in a position to do something like that.

[The Chosen One]

I don't want anything to do with Moncada because his middle name is Olivera .

[Horsehide Harry]

Yeah, I don't think the Pirates would overpay for Teheran. Any trade with them would likely be fair value. Red Sox might overpay. Rangers and Mariners might. Not the Pirates. And I might add not the Indians. Smart smaller to mid market teams like the Indians and Pirates realize they are not really in a position to do something like that.

I think under normal circumstances you might be right. However, there comes a time when each team sees it's window and either goes through it or watches it close. Right now the Pirates have McCutchen and a strong outfield. Once their current players get some arby time or goes FA, their window closes. it depends on how much they want a ring.

[nsacpi]

However, there comes a time when each team sees it's window and either goes through it or watches it close.

Teams like the Pirates and Indians have a lot of institutional memory about the extremely long period of time they spent in the wilderness. They don't want to go back to the wilderness. They realize that doing an overpay in which they trade future for present is precisely the kind of move that will send them back to the wilderness. Going for it in Year X is a luxury that the bigger market teams can afford. Not teams like the Indians and Pirates. Let's see what happens at the deadline. Interestingly, the A's are a team that did such a move in the Russell-Samardzija trade. I think Beane is a different kind of GM. But that trade didn't work very well for the A's and I think will be a cautionary tale for teams like the Pirates and Indians (not that they need one).

[Heyward]

I think under normal circumstances you might be right. However, there comes a time when each team sees it's window and either goes through it or watches it close. Right now the Pirates have McCutchen and a strong outfield. Once their current players get some arby time or goes FA, their window closes. it depends on how much they want a ring.

Pirates have Marte and Polanco signed for another 4-5 years.

McCutchen may leave if he hits FA.

But not sure they'd overpay

[Horsehide Harry]

Pirates have Marte and Polanco signed for another 4-5 years.

McCutchen may leave if he hits FA.

But not sure they'd overpay

Agree with what you and nsacpi are saying BUT Meadows plays a position where they are set for the next couple of years at least. It's not like they are trading him with a glaring, unavoidable hole in the OF approaching next year. I think they would be MUCH more reluctant to part with pitching.

[nsacpi]

Agree with what you and nsacpi are saying BUT Meadows plays a position where they are set for the next couple of years at least. It's not like they are trading him with a glaring, unavoidable hole in the OF approaching next year. I think they would be MUCH more reluctant to part with pitching.

I'm just trying to look at this from the Pirates perspective. I think they move one of their major league outfielders when Meadow is ready. And the Pirates will manage his service close shrewdly. So I'm guessing a major league debut in 2018.

[Horsehide Harry]

I'm just trying to look at this from the Pirates perspective. I think they move one of their major league outfielders when Meadow is ready. And the Pirates will manage his service close shrewdly. So I'm guessing a major league debut in 2018.

Certainly possible but as noted earlier, Oakland pulled the trigger (didn't work out), Toronto pulled the trigger (somewhat worked out), KC pulled the trigger (and it worked out).

If they don't make a major move then they are playing it safe to the point of essentially saying that being close on a near yearly basis is better than having your best opportunity to win. It will be interesting to see how long fans will settle for always a bridesmaid and never a bride.

[nsacpi]

What KC did the past two years is interesting. They did give up some decent prospects. But not their best ones. In 2014 they had three guys on the BA mid-season Top 50 (Mondesi, Zimmer and Dozier) and they held on to them. Last year they just had one (Mondesi) and held on to him.

[Russ2dollas]

What KC did the past two years is interesting. They did give up some decent prospects. But not their best ones. In 2014 they had three guys on the BA mid-season Top 50 (Mondesi, Zimmer and Dozier) and they held on to them. Last year they just had one (Mondesi) and held on to him.

Agree. I'd expect pirates would part with Harold rameriz and Diaz or McGuire for Tehran but not meadows. I think it's a fair deal on talent but I would not like it for the braves. Tehrans contract is too valuable. More bidders at the winter meetings.

I like Ramirez and McGuire. I think they'd have to put in Hayes and I doubt pirates would do that.

[Russ2dollas]

I wonder if we'd take on Brandon Phillips. Hold up is that Phillips is demanding another year on his deal to OK trade.

But if we could get him for nothing then you'd have him at 2b next year for 14 million on a team with money. Helps keep albies down. Then you'd have the bonus year in 18 at 14 million. Could be a useful player. Could be a flippable guy if you eat money.

I think I'd take him only if we got a prospect in return and I doubt Vinci does that. Prob just eat the money for one more yr.

[Russ2dollas]

Sox won't do elite guys IMO unless they are all in this yr and get viz plus Tehran. And then we pron get 1 guy.

I'd think they'd give up Luis basabe, chavis and maybe rei. Should be able to get brentz who might be a good platoon with mallex if mallex and inciarte both stay with us.

[nsacpi]

I would want a Top 10 guy for Teheran or someone in the 10-25 range plus a valuable piece. That would represent somewhat of an overpay by the other team (though nowhere of the magnitude of the Miller trade), but we are in a position to insist on a clear win if someone approaches us about Teheran.

[yeezus]

I'd love to get Meadows. We need good hitters, period. They don't need to be power guys.

[bravescountry]

Well McCutchen's deal expires in a few years, maybe they go with Marte, Polanco and Meadows in a few years.

Meadows can be in the majors next year- they'd be wasting two years of him in the minors or as a bench bat "just because Cutch is leaving in two years." ANd most people agree that the Pirates would be a lot better if the ownership just opens their wallets and/or prospects in trade.. but they obviously aren't.. :(

[bravescountry]

Not sure Meadows is what we need either.

How? He can play any OF position with average to above average defense. He has a plus plus bat (capable of hitting .300+), he has a good power bat (capable of hitting hear 20 homeruns in a season), he has speed to steal bases and hit for XBH's... he's a GA boy and would fill a HUGE need in our system/team.

[bravescountry]

Pirates have Marte and Polanco signed for another 4-5 years.

McCutchen may leave if he hits FA.

But not sure they'd overpay

Cutch still has 2 years of control-and tbh, I think they will try to lock him up for a few more years, can't see him in another uniform. And Meadows will be major league ready by mid 2017. He'd be in the minors for 1.5 years before Cutch leaves or anything- that's not really smart especially when their heavy with OF depth.

[clvclv]

Ideally (assuming Julio and Viz are actually available), I'd want to go...

Julio for Gallo straight-up, Vizcaino for Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease, and Markakis for Chase Vallot (eating some of Nick's $$$, of course). Go get Desmond or Cespedes to play LF and a veteran SP like Jaime Garcia to plug into the rotation this winter.


CF- Mallex, SS- Swanson, 1B- Freeman, LF- Desmond, 3B- Gallo, C- Flowers, RF- Inciarte, 2B- Albies

[yeezus]

I'd so much rather gun for Meadows than for Gallo.

[Enscheff]

If the Pirates are as smart as everyone thinks, McCutchen will be traded away as soon as Meadows is deemed ready. The prospect return for Cutch could be used to trade for a pitcher like Julio.

[yeezus]

If the Pirates are as smart as everyone thinks, McCutchen will be traded away as soon as Meadows is deemed ready. The prospect return for Cutch could be used to trade for a pitcher like Julio.

this makes sense from a strictly logistical standpoint, but not sure the Pirates are eager to trade a guy like Cutch. Team leader, MVP, homegrown. I don't see them trading him.

[Russ2dollas]

Ideally (assuming Julio and Viz are actually available), I'd want to go...

Julio for Gallo straight-up, Vizcaino for Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease, and Markakis for Chase Vallot (eating some of Nick's $$$, of course). Go get Desmond or Cespedes to play LF and a veteran SP like Jaime Garcia to plug into the rotation this winter.


CF- Mallex, SS- Swanson, 1B- Freeman, LF- Desmond, 3B- Gallo, C- Flowers, RF- Inciarte, 2B- Albies

ppl keep saying Desmond. Wont he get another qualifying offer this year? We won't give up the first pick of round 2 for Desmond.

[Russ2dollas]

I think the pirates would work hard in the offseason to extend McCutchen. If they get that done, then maybe they can deal Meadows or Marte (replace Marte with Meadows).

[bravescountry]

If the Pirates are as smart as everyone thinks, McCutchen will be traded away as soon as Meadows is deemed ready. The prospect return for Cutch could be used to trade for a pitcher like Julio.

If they would trade Cutch, I'd be with only 1 year left- and that still is very unlikely. If they're going to trade prospects from a future Cutch trade why wouldn't they just trade Meadows right now for a solid pitcher for the rotation bc they need SP help and then trade Cutch for younger players including another OF'er after 2 years.. your method doesn't sound like a Pirates method, thought us discussing of Pitts trading prospects is also a "non-Pirates" method.

[zbhargrove]

How? He can play any OF position with average to above average defense. He has a plus plus bat (capable of hitting .300+), he has a good power bat (capable of hitting hear 20 homeruns in a season), he has speed to steal bases and hit for XBH's... he's a GA boy and would fill a HUGE need in our system/team.

He hasn't shown anywhere near 20 homer potential yet and he's shown decent speed but not that impressive for the minors

[clvclv]

ppl keep saying Desmond. Wont he get another qualifying offer this year? We won't give up the first pick of round 2 for Desmond.

Assuming Julio and Vizcaino were traded now, who cares? If we get the #1 pick, J. J. Schwarz is staring us dead in the face - and I don't think I'm going out on much of a limb when I say he's as close to a "lock" as our pick as there is if he's available.

Desmond or Cespedes are just the "ideal" guys in that scenario - if being seriously competitive is the goal. If Markakis is gone, there are multiple LF options available (including Garcia) - Desmond, Cespedes, Bautista, Bruce, Carlos Gomez, Colby Rasmus, Josh Reddick, Michael Saunders, and Mark Trumbo.

I know several folks simply don't believe we're going to spend money on ANY free-agent, but the Liberty/AOL-TW payroll agreement is going to force them to spend money on SOMEBODY. You're replacing Aybar with someone making the minimum. Your other MI will be making the minimum. None of the SPs will be making money. Neither will Mallex or Inciarte. Garcia? Nope. Flowers will be making $3 million. They might spend a little money and bring Beckham back, but why?

I'm sorry that it bothers some people so much, but they're going to have to spend money this winter to meet the minimum salary-level MLB required to allow the deal to go through. There aren't enough roster spots available to keep signing the Bud Norrises and KJs of the world - it really is that simple.

[CJ9]

Assuming Julio and Vizcaino were traded now, who cares? If we get the #1 pick, J. J. Schwarz is staring us dead in the face - and I don't think I'm going out on much of a limb when I say he's as close to a "lock" as our pick as there is if he's available.

I'm a Florida fan, and I like the guy, but us taking Schwarz at 1-1 would be a horrendous pick. The power has disappeared this year, and the chances of him catching as a pro have fallen significantly. His stock is nowhere near where it was four months ago.

[bravescountry]

He hasn't shown anywhere near 20 homer potential yet and he's shown decent speed but not that impressive for the minors

The Pirates system is known to not develop power early, but develop contact hitting and then power. Marte IS a 20 homerun threat, right? He never hit more than 12 homeruns in a season. And just saying.. Meadows is on pace now for around 20 homeruns, more than 20 steals while batting over .300 .
His stats so far in 155 AB? .310 batting average, 5 homeruns, 13 doubles, 8 triples, 15 BB, 30 K's, and 8 SBs. He's finally fully healthy and completely raking- he would become arguably the best positional prospect in our system if traded for- I think he has a higher ceiling than Swanson..

[bravescountry]

I'm a Florida fan, and I like the guy, but us taking Schwarz at 1-1 would be a horrendous pick. The power has disappeared this year, and the chances of him catching as a pro have fallen significantly. His stock is nowhere near where it was four months ago.

I saw his stocks drop as his stats did..
if he were to be the #1 prospect, he'd have to hit better and hit for power a lot better. His walk rate DID go up which was nice to see, so if he maintain his OBP while adding the power and hit tools from his freshman year again, I can see his stocks rising up again quickly.

[zbhargrove]

Assuming Julio and Vizcaino were traded now, who cares? If we get the #1 pick, J. J. Schwarz is staring us dead in the face - and I don't think I'm going out on much of a limb when I say he's as close to a "lock" as our pick as there is if he's available.

Desmond or Cespedes are just the "ideal" guys in that scenario - if being seriously competitive is the goal. If Markakis is gone, there are multiple LF options available (including Garcia) - Desmond, Cespedes, Bautista, Bruce, Carlos Gomez, Colby Rasmus, Josh Reddick, Michael Saunders, and Mark Trumbo.

I know several folks simply don't believe we're going to spend money on ANY free-agent, but the Liberty/AOL-TW payroll agreement is going to force them to spend money on SOMEBODY. You're replacing Aybar with someone making the minimum. Your other MI will be making the minimum. None of the SPs will be making money. Neither will Mallex or Inciarte. Garcia? Nope. Flowers will be making $3 million. They might spend a little money and bring Beckham back, but why?

I'm sorry that it bothers some people so much, but they're going to have to spend money this winter to meet the minimum salary-level MLB required to allow the deal to go through. There aren't enough roster spots available to keep signing the Bud Norrises and KJs of the world - it really is that simple.

Schwarz is certainly no lock at number one or even number 5... he's not near the prospect he once was.

[clvclv]

I'm a Florida fan, and I like the guy, but us taking Schwarz at 1-1 would be a horrendous pick. The power has disappeared this year, and the chances of him catching as a pro have fallen significantly. His stock is nowhere near where it was four months ago.

On June 13th, 2016, sure.

That's all guessing at this point anyway, and not all that relevant for this thread. I agree, he certainly lost some luster this season - I'm betting (and hoping) he gets it all back. He definitely looked like he was reading about himself and coasting far too much this season.

The point is, if you actually do trade Julio, No one other than Markakis and Freeman will make any money next season, and if Markakis is dealt, the only person currently in the organization that will make more than $4 million in 2016 is Freddie. They have no choice other than to spend some money this winter.

[bravos4evr]

Assuming Julio and Vizcaino were traded now, who cares? If we get the #1 pick, J. J. Schwarz is staring us dead in the face - and I don't think I'm going out on much of a limb when I say he's as close to a "lock" as our pick as there is if he's available.

Desmond or Cespedes are just the "ideal" guys in that scenario - if being seriously competitive is the goal. If Markakis is gone, there are multiple LF options available (including Garcia) - Desmond, Cespedes, Bautista, Bruce, Carlos Gomez, Colby Rasmus, Josh Reddick, Michael Saunders, and Mark Trumbo.

I know several folks simply don't believe we're going to spend money on ANY free-agent, but the Liberty/AOL-TW payroll agreement is going to force them to spend money on SOMEBODY. You're replacing Aybar with someone making the minimum. Your other MI will be making the minimum. None of the SPs will be making money. Neither will Mallex or Inciarte. Garcia? Nope. Flowers will be making $3 million. They might spend a little money and bring Beckham back, but why?

I'm sorry that it bothers some people so much, but they're going to have to spend money this winter to meet the minimum salary-level MLB required to allow the deal to go through. There aren't enough roster spots available to keep signing the Bud Norrises and KJs of the world - it really is that simple.

I expect them to buy at least a catcher and a corner bat this winter. as far as a veteran arm...IDK, they might try a lottery ticket or two, but i don't see them trying to grab any of the, rather mediocre "big names, or anything for the mound. I agree, tho, some $$$ will be spent to grab Weiters/Ramos and probably Reddick

[Russ2dollas]

Assuming Julio and Vizcaino were traded now, who cares? If we get the #1 pick, J. J. Schwarz is staring us dead in the face - and I don't think I'm going out on much of a limb when I say he's as close to a "lock" as our pick as there is if he's available.

Desmond or Cespedes are just the "ideal" guys in that scenario - if being seriously competitive is the goal. If Markakis is gone, there are multiple LF options available (including Garcia) - Desmond, Cespedes, Bautista, Bruce, Carlos Gomez, Colby Rasmus, Josh Reddick, Michael Saunders, and Mark Trumbo.

I know several folks simply don't believe we're going to spend money on ANY free-agent, but the Liberty/AOL-TW payroll agreement is going to force them to spend money on SOMEBODY. You're replacing Aybar with someone making the minimum. Your other MI will be making the minimum. None of the SPs will be making money. Neither will Mallex or Inciarte. Garcia? Nope. Flowers will be making $3 million. They might spend a little money and bring Beckham back, but why?

I'm sorry that it bothers some people so much, but they're going to have to spend money this winter to meet the minimum salary-level MLB required to allow the deal to go through. There aren't enough roster spots available to keep signing the Bud Norrises and KJs of the world - it really is that simple.

I didn't say we wouldn't spend money. I said Desmond would have draft pick compensation. If he gets a qualifying offer then we'd have to give up a pick.

[clvclv]

I didn't say we wouldn't spend money. I said Desmond would have draft pick compensation. If he gets a qualifying offer then we'd have to give up a pick.

We absolutely would. The thing is, considering how little salary is on the books for next season (with Bourn and Swisher gone), they're going to have to spend money regardless. They can't get to the payroll level that was required by MLB when the sale was approved by signing another handful of Beckhams/KJs/Norrises/etc. for peanuts. That's another reason to blow past the international spending limit this season - if they wind up surrendering a second round pick (and potentially even third round as well) for signing GOOD players, the hope is that those international signings will make up for them.

[Russ2dollas]

We absolutely would. The thing is, considering how little salary is on the books for next season (with Bourn and Swisher gone), they're going to have to spend money regardless. They can't get to the payroll level that was required by MLB when the sale was approved by signing another handful of Beckhams/KJs/Norrises/etc. for peanuts. That's another reason to blow past the international spending limit this season - if they wind up surrendering a second round pick (and potentially even third round as well) for signing GOOD players, the hope is that those international signings will make up for them.

I don't think we give up the first pick of round 2.

What is the salary floor required?

If there is a floor, I wonder if we could get creative and sign a mid priced FA and pay them 50% of their salary in year one to front load the deal.

[bravesfanMatt]

I don't think we give up the first pick of round 2.

What is the salary floor required?

If there is a floor, I wonder if we could get creative and sign a mid priced FA and pay them 50% of their salary in year one to front load the deal.


I agree, I don't think Ramos moves the needle enough to lose the 1st pick of round 2.. Will the new CBA be in place for this year's FA class, or will that be 2018?

[bravos4evr]

We absolutely would. The thing is, considering how little salary is on the books for next season (with Bourn and Swisher gone), they're going to have to spend money regardless. They can't get to the payroll level that was required by MLB when the sale was approved by signing another handful of Beckhams/KJs/Norrises/etc. for peanuts. That's another reason to blow past the international spending limit this season - if they wind up surrendering a second round pick (and potentially even third round as well) for signing GOOD players, the hope is that those international signings will make up for them.

well, I think that depends. If the operational budget was the same or close, I don't think MLB would raise too much of a stink. I think there's a difference between a rebuilding team using similar levels of finances to do different things and an ownership slashing payroll to pocket the funds.


I agree, I don't think Ramos moves the needle enough to lose the 1st pick of round 2.. Will the new CBA be in place for this year's FA class, or will that be 2018?

They negotiate it this offseason so it will take effect as soon as approved. But i reckon that free agent stuff will begin fiscal year 2017