Jace

[msstate7]

'16 stats -- .282/.357/.382
Last 7 -- .357/.400/.536
Last 15 -- .328/.375/.500
Last 30 -- .307/.388/.432

I'm extremely doubtful jace can keep this up, but what if he does? At what point does he get looked at as our long term 2b?

[IowaBrave14]

I think that when all the future pieces are all in place, Jace become a super sub...and a darn fine one.

[Preacher]

'16 stats -- .282/.357/.382
Last 7 -- .357/.400/.536
Last 15 -- .328/.375/.500
Last 30 -- .307/.388/.432

I'm extremely doubtful jace can keep this up, but what if he does? At what point does he get looked at as our long term 2b?

Probably at no point with Albies/Swanson in the system.

But that doesn't mean he can't be a valuable trade chip or super-utility guy for us.

[50PoundHead]

I think the big thing with Peterson now is to put him at 2B and let him develop his offensive skills. He's on a hot streak and I expect him to cool down some, but I have to believe that moving him all over the field at this stage of his career might be distracting. There aren't a lot of guys who can be a super-utility guy right out of the gate. It takes some adjustments.

[zbhargrove]

Yah, its time to see if Jace's big dip in production last year was injury related or legit. If he's found something, he's a very valuable piece if not just to be a super utility guy.

[nsacpi]

Players develop differently and you have to keep an open mind. But our Plan A for next year should not include having Jace and Adonis Garcia as regulars. If they push their way into the regular lineup that's great. But it should not be part of Plan A for 2017.

[clvclv]

If I were guessing, Jace is being showcased for as long as he can stay hot.

Albies was demoted this morning, and Bowman said it's because the organization decided it's time for them to start playing together. Makes me wonder if Aybar's recent run of good play has someone sniffing around on him. Wouldn't hope for much of a return at this point since most of the contenders appear to be relatively healthy up the middle, but I'd imagine the brass is comfortable enough that we can get by with some combination of Jace/d'Arnaud/Beckham up the middle for the time being, and the move also frees up more reps in Gwinnett for Castro at SS in case of emergency.

[Russ2dollas]

small samples. I just don't think he's very good. Ceiling is early prado for me.

I said before the year I would have flipped Aybar and tried Jace for a year at SS. I think he could be ok there and might hit enough to be a SS. I don't think he can play or hit enough for third. I dont' think he can hit enough for LF. Worth having pre-arb, but after that....no.

Would love to be wrong though.

[Enscheff]

I've said from day 1 that Jace is going to be a non-tender candidate when he hits arb1 or arb2. He is the typical 1-2 WAR player who is useful while cheap and can produce when played correctly...like in a platoon role.

[Carp]

I like Jace more than most. I think he compares very favorably to Chris Coghlan, but with better defense. I'd be happy with that.

[smootness]

small samples. I just don't think he's very good. Ceiling is early prado for me.

I said before the year I would have flipped Aybar and tried Jace for a year at SS. I think he could be ok there and might hit enough to be a SS. I don't think he can play or hit enough for third. I dont' think he can hit enough for LF. Worth having pre-arb, but after that....no.

Would love to be wrong though.

He can't field enough to be a SS.

[Russ2dollas]

He can't field enough to be a SS.
Aybar is our ss. He could have done that

[Braves1976]

He can't field enough to be a SS.

I don't know about that, they never gave him a chance to do so. He looked pretty good at short in the minors, should be good enough to back-up the position for sure. And he is a lot better at short than Aybar has been this year starting.

[Braves1976]

Aybar is our ss. He could have done that

He could of did a lot better than that, Aybar has no range. Peterson has some range and a better arm too.

[smootness]

Aybar is our ss. He could have done that

If the standard for our future at any position is, 'I think he would do it better than Aybar,' then we're completely screwed.

[smootness]

I don't know about that, they never gave him a chance to do so. He looked pretty good at short in the minors, should be good enough to back-up the position for sure. And he is a lot better at short than Aybar has been this year starting.

This is fair. What I said was honesty more of a joke, but I figure if we're going to go ahead and say that he won't hit enough for 3B then it's probably ok to say he won't field enough for SS, either. That just sounds like putting him at the position on the field that is generally weakest offensively because he has a weak bat. He's been basically average defensively at 2B...that's not someone who I think can become a threat to be a regular SS.

[50PoundHead]

I like Jace more than most. I think he compares very favorably to Chris Coghlan, but with better defense. I'd be happy with that.

That's a pretty good comp. Coghlan probably has a bit more power, but other than that they might be close provided Peterson develops a bit more.

[clvclv]

He can't field enough to be a SS.

Neither could Prado (regarding his comp).

I have always been a big Peterson supporter, and really think both Prado and Coghlan are pretty good comps IMO. The only place Jace could probably make it as a regular would be at 2B, but unless this is his "step forward" and he can maintain something resembling this kind of production - ~.350 OBP with some gap power - he's likely to be our Coghlan-type until he reaches free-agency. Assuming Dansby and Ozzie start next season as the regular starters, Jace shouldn't put up big enough numbers to make much even in his arb years.

Neither of those guys is a perfect comp - Prado and Jace could field well enough to be an emergency SS if something happened to BOTH Swanson and Albies for a short time, and Coghlan and Jace could probably defend well enough to be an emergency CF if something happened to BOTH Inciarte and Mallex for a short time.

I really like the idea of carrying both Jace and d'Arnaud to start 2017 - they'd give us all kinds of flexibility to potentially carry both Adonis and Ruiz as a platoon at 3B if we don't go after Cespedes or Desmond and have a platoon behind the plate while still carrying an extra pen arm...

C- Wieters/???/Flowers
1B- Freeman/Garcia
2B- Albies/Peterson/d'Arnaud
SS- Swanson/Albies/Peterson/d'Arnaud
3B- Garcia/Ruiz/Peterson/d'Arnaud
LF- Mallex/Garcia/Peterson/d'Arnaud
CF- Inciarte/Mallex/Peterson
RF- Markakis/Inciarte

would only require 12 position players.

[smootness]

Neither could Prado (regarding his comp).

I agree, never said he could...

[msstate7]

Neither could Prado (regarding his comp).

I have always been a big Peterson supporter, and really think both Prado and Coghlan are pretty good comps IMO. The only place Jace could probably make it as a regular would be at 2B, but unless this is his "step forward" and he can maintain something resembling this kind of production - ~.350 OBP with some gap power - he's likely to be our Coghlan-type until he reaches free-agency. Assuming Dansby and Ozzie start next season as the regular starters, Jace shouldn't put up big enough numbers to make much even in his arb years.

Neither of those guys is a perfect comp - Prado and Jace could field well enough to be an emergency SS if something happened to BOTH Swanson and Albies for a short time, and Coghlan and Jace could probably defend well enough to be an emergency CF if something happened to BOTH Inciarte and Mallex for a short time.

I really like the idea of carrying both Jace and d'Arnaud to start 2017 - they'd give us all kinds of flexibility to potentially carry both Adonis and Ruiz as a platoon at 3B if we don't go after Cespedes or Desmond and have a platoon behind the plate while still carrying an extra pen arm...

C- Wieters/???/Flowers
1B- Freeman/Garcia
2B- Albies/Peterson/d'Arnaud
SS- Swanson/Albies/Peterson/d'Arnaud
3B- Garcia/Ruiz/Peterson/d'Arnaud
LF- Mallex/Garcia/Peterson/d'Arnaud
CF- Inciarte/Mallex/Peterson
RF- Markakis/Inciarte

would only require 12 position players.

Replace Markakis with a power threat in RF and that may not be so bad.

[Carp]

I want Justin Turner at 3B in 2017

[clvclv]

Replace Markakis with a power threat in RF and that may not be so bad.

Of course in my dream world, we'd be able to get a really good prospect or two for Vizcaino, get a bag of balls for Markakis, keep Julio, slide Inciarte to RF and Mallex to CF, spend a wad on Cespedes in LF, Aroldis Chapman to replace Vizcaino, add a mid-rotation lefty like Jaime Garcia and be competitive in 2017 -

Julio, Folty, Garcia, Wisler, Perez/Blair/Gant/Ellis/eventually Newcomb

Chapman, Simmons, Cervenka, Withrow, Krol, Cabrera, Alvarez, Akeel Morris

[JohnAdcox]

Of course in my dream world, we'd be able to get a really good prospect or two for Vizcaino, get a bag of balls for Markakis, keep Julio, slide Inciarte to RF and Mallex to CF, spend a wad on Cespedes in LF, Aroldis Chapman to replace Vizcaino, add a mid-rotation lefty like Jaime Garcia and be competitive in 2017 -

Julio, Folty, Garcia, Wisler, Perez/Blair/Gant/Ellis/eventually Newcomb

Chapman, Simmons, Cervenka, Withrow, Krol, Cabrera, Alvarez, Akeel Morris

Who catches with that team?

[smootness]

We better not throw the kind of money it will take at Chapman.

[clvclv]

Who catches with that team?

I wouldn't mind that "good prospect or two" we got for Vizcaino turn out to be Reese McGuire and Yeudy Garcia from the Pirates.

McGuire's really strong defensively and his bat is improving, and he'd make a perfect platoon partner for Flowers. Garcia is another high octane arm (high-90s) that could move pretty fast if he were transitioned to the pen.

[clvclv]

We better not throw the kind of money it will take at Chapman.

This continues to be the funniest response (from lots of folks, not just you) we keep seeing here. "We better not spend on..."

The Braves have LESS THAN $49 million dollars in committed salaries on the books for 2017, less than $47 million in 2018, less than $40 million in 2019, and less than $31 million in 2020. We're going to HAVE to sign someone folks. If you gave the two best free-agents this winter $20 million each, we're still a long way from what the current supposed ceiling of $120 million is. If there's truly going to be a payroll bump after the new park opens, there's still going to be money to make a splurge signing when the monster class becomes available a couple winters from now.

[smootness]

This continues to be the funniest response (from lots of folks, not just you) we keep seeing here. "We better not spend on..."

The Braves have LESS THAN $49 million dollars in committed salaries on the books for 2017, less than $47 million in 2018, less than $40 million in 2019, and less than $31 million in 2020. We're going to HAVE to sign someone folks. If you gave the two best free-agents this winter $20 million each, we're still a long way from what the current supposed ceiling of $120 million is. If there's truly going to be a payroll bump after the new park opens, there's still going to be money to make a splurge signing when the monster class becomes available a couple winters from now.

I didn't say that because we don't have money in the budget to do it. I said that because no team, especially a team that still isn't really ready to contend, should spend that much on a relief pitcher. 'LOL, we can afford it' is not a good defense to me. I want all of our money spent to be money well-spent, not money to spend just to do it. We will have room in the budget to give Kelly Johnson $25 million next year, but I'd rather not do it.

Chapman will almost certainly become the highest paid RP in history this offseason, and he's going to get a lot of years. I don't want the Braves to be the one making that signing. Who knows where we'll be in 3-4 years. I don't want us looking back and saying, 'Well, if we weren't paying Chapman ____ still, we could ____.'

[clvclv]

I didn't say that because we don't have money in the budget to do it. I said that because no team, especially a team that still isn't really ready to contend, should spend that much on a relief pitcher. 'LOL, we can afford it' is not a good defense to me. I want all of our money spent to be money well-spent, not money to spend just to do it. We will have room in the budget to give Kelly Johnson $25 million next year, but I'd rather not do it.

Chapman will almost certainly become the highest paid RP in history this offseason, and he's going to get a lot of years. I don't want the Braves to be the one making that signing. Who knows where we'll be in 3-4 years. I don't want us looking back and saying, 'Well, if we weren't paying Chapman ____ still, we could ____.'

If that's the case, we probably better avoid signing any free-agent - ever.

[zbhargrove]

This continues to be the funniest response (from lots of folks, not just you) we keep seeing here. "We better not spend on..."

The Braves have LESS THAN $49 million dollars in committed salaries on the books for 2017, less than $47 million in 2018, less than $40 million in 2019, and less than $31 million in 2020. We're going to HAVE to sign someone folks. If you gave the two best free-agents this winter $20 million each, we're still a long way from what the current supposed ceiling of $120 million is. If there's truly going to be a payroll bump after the new park opens, there's still going to be money to make a splurge signing when the monster class becomes available a couple winters from now.

Signing Chapman would not be smart.

[smootness]

If that's the case, we probably better avoid signing any free-agent - ever.

Those approaching 30, at a position not of dire need, for a team that probably won't truly compete for a couple years, for a ton of money and a lot of years? Yes.

[Braves1976]

The Braves have a lot of potential in their bullpen arms, including those currently in the bullpen and those in the minors. Plus they just got two more not far off in the Norris trade that could help as soon as next year at some point. So there is depth there too. This being the case they shouldn't be spending big money on a Chapman, they should be able to find a decent closer even without Viz among the bunch they already have in the system. I can think of three or four candidates not even counting Viz that could do well in that role (including a few in the minors that are close). Simmons depending on health is another possible option too.

Shoot we even have some real depth among good lefty relievers now, so no reason we cannot put together a strong bullpen next year. The starting pitching is where we are weak as far as pitching goes.

[bravos4evr]

The Braves have a lot of potential in their bullpen arms, including those currently in the bullpen and those in the minors. Plus they just got two more not far off in the Norris trade that could help as soon as next year at some point. So there is depth there too. This being the case they shouldn't be spending big money on a Chapman, they should be able to find a decent closer even without Viz among the bunch they already have in the system. I can think of three or four candidates not even counting Viz that could do well in that role (including a few in the minors that are close). Simmons depending on health is another possible option too.

Shoot we even have some real depth among good lefty relievers now, so no reason we cannot put together a strong bullpen next year. The starting pitching is where we are weak as far as pitching goes.

any good reliever can close

[The Chosen One]

any good reliever can close

Retisma

[smootness]

Uh, Reitsma wasn't ever a good reliever. He was basically the same guy as a closer that he was when he wasn't a closer. Then he fell off a cliff in his late 20s.

[Braves1976]

any good reliever can close

Not true, just ask Texas as they've tried a number of them and outside of Dyson have had issues. Bush being the latest example, though he's did fine otherwise. There's always been relievers that for whatever reason did well in 7th or 8th inning roles but sucked at closing and always will be. But those relievers are not always bad otherwise and some have great stuff and should do well closing but don't (maybe they overthink it, who knows).

[smootness]

Not true, just ask Texas as they've tried a number of them and outside of Dyson have had issues. Bush being the latest example, though he's did fine otherwise. There's always been relievers that for whatever reason did well in 7th or 8th inning roles but sucked at closing and always will be. But those relievers are not always bad otherwise and some have great stuff and should do well closing but don't (maybe they overthink it, who knows).

Bush has one blown save, and he didn't even come in to start the 9th in that one. He then gave up 1 run in 1.2 IP during the 7th and 8th and 2 runs in the 8th in the next one. He's not closing, he's just had 3 bad games in a row as a normal RP.

[Braves1976]

Bush has one blown save, and he didn't even come in to start the 9th in that one. He then gave up 1 run in 1.2 IP during the 7th and 8th and 2 runs in the 8th in the next one. He's not closing, he's just had 3 bad games in a row as a normal RP.

It was a 4-run lead his last outing to start the 9th, not a save situation but he still didn't handle it just like he didn't handle his previous one that was a three run lead and save situation.

BTW, you read wrong as the one run charged against him came in after he was taken out and didn't finish the 8th inning (not the 7th inning), Diekman is to blame there mostly. But that was a 6-2 Rangers win and 6-0 at the time so no big deal. And the two runs after that were in the 9th and not the 8th (last one he and Dyson blew vs Yankees). It's just he pitched two thirds in the 8th too and then walked the first two to start the 9th, then Dyson was brought on and gave up the three run homer to Mac (including the two runners belonging to Bush). JFYI.

[bravos4evr]

Not true, just ask Texas as they've tried a number of them and outside of Dyson have had issues. Bush being the latest example, though he's did fine otherwise. There's always been relievers that for whatever reason did well in 7th or 8th inning roles but sucked at closing and always will be. But those relievers are not always bad otherwise and some have great stuff and should do well closing but don't (maybe they overthink it, who knows).

well, it kinda is true, MLB is riddled with random relievers who became good closers for awhile, and due to the volatility of relievers either faded away or lost the job later. It's rare to find a closer who lasts long term, but that's because it's rare to find a really good relief arm that has staying power.

[UNCBlue012]

Lead off double by Jace. He's hitting like .308 over his last 30. Maybe this is legit

[mfree80]

Jace says.... How do you like me now!!!!

[cajunrevenge]

I was riding the Jace sets the pace bandwagon hard last year. Not sure wtf happened to start this year but I still believe.

[cajunrevenge]

any good reliever can close

You sweet summer child. Do you remember the streak years? We tried that any good reliever can close thing for about 15 years and it cost us numerous championships.

[bravos4evr]

You sweet summer child. Do you remember the streak years? We tried that any good reliever can close thing for about 15 years and it cost us numerous championships.

no we tried "any reliever can close' none of them were any good. The math is pretty clear that good relievers make good closers, bad relievers don't. Why is it that every year there are 10-15 guys who close and do well out of the blue? Then a few years later they are done and a new group takes over. it's because any good reliever can close, but most relievers have high volatility from one year to the next. It is rare to have a relief arm who is consistently good for several years.(closing or not)

it'salso why paying big $$$ for closers is a terrible idea

[Braves1976]

no we tried "any reliever can close' none of them were any good. The math is pretty clear that good relievers make good closers, bad relievers don't. Why is it that every year there are 10-15 guys who close and do well out of the blue? Then a few years later they are done and a new group takes over. it's because any good reliever can close, but most relievers have high volatility from one year to the next. It is rare to have a relief arm who is consistently good for several years.(closing or not)

it'salso why paying big $$$ for closers is a terrible idea

I think you could save yourself a lot of needless debate by simply qualifying your original statement with "most" good relievers. That would be true, but even you seem to acknowledge that there are exceptions. Further, I don't disagree with you on it being a bad idea (esp. for us) to pay big $$$, for a closer. The only time I'd do that is for someone special, a once in a generation type talent like Kimbrel or Venters before Fredi broke him. And no Chapman isn't that special IMO, I rather have Miller from the Yankees than him (just saying).

[bravos4evr]

I think you could save yourself a lot of needless debate by simply qualifying your original statement with "most" good relievers. That would be true, but even you seem to acknowledge that there are exceptions. Further, I don't disagree with you on it being a bad idea (esp. for us) to pay big $$$, for a closer. The only time I'd do that is for someone special, a once in a generation type talent like Kimbrel or Venters before Fredi broke him. And no Chapman isn't that special IMO, I rather have Miller from the Yankees than him (just saying).

well sure, most is better than any, but it appears that "any" is true. The history of the game is riddled with flash in the pan closers

[DirkPiggler]

This thread is for honoring Jaceus H Christ, not discussing the merits of paying gazillions of dollars for closers.

He deserves our respect - at least for the duration of His hot streak.

[Braves1976]

well sure, most is better than any, but it appears that "any" is true. The history of the game is riddled with flash in the pan closers

Any isn't true, there are always exceptions.

[bravos4evr]

Let's hope Jace can keep this up, hell he could fill in at 3b next year while we wait to see if any of the prospects step up for 2018.


oh, and an excellent article on relievers: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-flawed-importance-of-the-closer/

[50PoundHead]

Just watched the replay of Peterson's HR. He's a pretty strong guy. Just put the bat on it and out it went.

[mfree80]

Just watched the replay of Peterson's HR. He's a pretty strong guy. Just put the bat on it and out it went.

I have thought since last year that we might be selling Jace a little short. If he keeps this up, and ups his power stroke a little, I think he has to be considered as potentially more than a utility guy. That would be a happy problem to have.

[msstate7]

Jace current stats...

.295/.362/.426 .789 ops

Pretty impressive

[thewupk]

Jace current stats...

.295/.362/.426 .789 ops

Pretty impressive

most impressive...but he is no all-star yet

[mfree80]

most impressive...but he is no all-star yet

Who called him an All-Star? He is certainly improving.

[Braves1976]

I have thought since last year that we might be selling Jace a little short. If he keeps this up, and ups his power stroke a little, I think he has to be considered as potentially more than a utility guy. That would be a happy problem to have.

Based on what he did in the minors before making the Majors, I see no reason he cannot stay a starter in MLB if he keeps improving. But either way a left handed Prado or Infante type player is fine too. Plus I think he brings a lot to the clubhouse outside of his play as he is one of those with good character that always plays hard. This is why I would rather keep him than trade him. However, if I am a team that needs a second baseman I'm asking the Braves about Jace Peterson.

[thewupk]

Who called him an All-Star? He is certainly improving.

star wars reference

[Chico]

There's no reason to trade Jace. He's a great player to have and he could provide insurance for Swanson or Albies. He's a great utility guy and essentially acts as your back-up SS since you're starting 2B would actually be your backup SS.

[chopdrew]

Can he catch?