7/3 SUNDAY MINORS FINAL: A trul;y wretched, gawdawful off. day

[rico43]

JUNE PLAYERS OF THE MONTH
Some terrific performances to choose from. These are my picks alone, not Braves official awards.

GWINNETT
Hitter: Rio Ruiz (.310-6-12), after a wretched May, looking like the touted prospect we dealt for. Just might be Opening Day 3B in 2017.
Pitcher: Stephen Janus, 2-0, 2.08 in eight games after promotion from Mississippi. Has answered the challenge at every level.

MISSISSIPPI
Hitter: Dustin Peterson (.320-2-20, 7 2B) has been a consistent bat in the AA lineup all year. Another bat acquired in a trade!
Pitcher: Rob Whalen (2-1, 1.41 in five games) 29 K in 32 IP. Count on a quality start each time out. The "other" pitcher acquired from the Mets in last year's Uribe-Johnson deal.

CAROLINA
Hitter: Joey Meneses (.392-1-14) also 8 2B in 20 games. No explanation needed. Promoted at the break.
Pitcher: Matt Withrow (3-0, 2.61) 6G, 35 K in 31 IP. Many quality arms coming out of last year's draft.

ROME
Hitter: Carlos Castro (.221-9-18). Not a typo. Nine homers in one month (and he hit another on May 31st!). Honorable mention is Luke Dykstra (.337-0-11), but who failed to draw a walk in the No. 2 hole.
Pitcher: Max Fried (4-1, 1.29). Allowed only four ER in 28 innings, 35 strikeouts. The light came on. He has no business still being in Rome.

Overall players of the month: Meneses and Fried.


SUNDAY'S MINOR LEAGUE RESULTS

CLASS AAA

Louisville 2, Gwinnett 1 (6, rain)

LP: Ellis (CG, 0-3) 5 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 5 K

Castro 2-3
Ruiz 1-2, RBI
Only 3 hits

CLASS AA

Jackson 7, Mississippi 0

LP: Newcomb (4-5) 4 IP, 8 H, 5 ER, 5 BB, 1 K
Phillips 1 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 1 K
Dirks 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 0 K (first Braves return)
Lara 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K

Albies 2-4, 2B
Astudillo 2-4
Kennelly 2-3

ADVANCED CLASS A

Lynchburg 2, Carolina 1

LP: Franco (5-5) 5 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 1 K
Sobotka 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 4 K
Lewis 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K

Beckham 1-3, BB
Curcio 1-4
Murphy 1-4, HR (6th), RBI

CLASS A

Lexington 8, Rome 0

LP: Soroka (2-7) 5 IP, 4 H, 3 ER, 4 BB, 6 K
Caicedo 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K
Webb 0.2 IP, 1 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 2 K
Matos 1.1 IP, 1 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 2 K

Baez 1-3
Didder 1-4
Only 2 hits

SHORT-SEASON

Burlington 3, Danville 2

SP: Hellinger 5 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 3 BB, 5 K, 2 pickoffs
Rice 1.2 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 2 K
Stanton 1.1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 0 K
Watts 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K

McLemore 1-4, RBI
Neslony 2-3, R, RBI (Braves debut)
Cumberland 1-4

GCL Braves, DSL Braves idle

------------

MOVES

GWINNETT: Mustelier to Atlanta; Castro activated from DL; Braves sign RHP Maikel Cleto, assigned to Gwinnett; Casey Kelly returned yet again.

MISSISSIPPI: Minter promoted from Carolina; Mateo placed on 7-day DL.

CAROLINA: Sobotka promoted from Rome; unspecified move for Johnson-Mullins.

ROME: RHP Jacob Webb promoted from Danville.

DANVILLE: OF Neslony, P Harrington assigned to Danville; Schlosser moved to GCL Braves.

GCL: Felix Falcon, Gabriel Henry released by Braves; Bryse Wilson assigned to GCL; Carlos Portuondo assigned to GCL.

Maikel Cleto is a beefy (6-3, 250) Dominican who appeared in 28 games for the White Sox in 2014 after three brief appearances in St. Louis.
Johnson-Mullins (PTBNL?) has a career record of 0-7 with 14 saves.
Portuondo is 28-year-old Cuban pitcher who was 50-50 starter-reliever.

[nsacpi]

We have four position prospects in the higher levels who will be helping the major league team within a year or two. None are big-time power hitters. But to me the more important thing is they are good players. I like depth in numbers because you can't say in advance which one will become the All-Star. The one who is youngest for his level has the best chance, but that's not always how it works out.

[Hudson2]

I've watched Dustin Peterson several times now and he hits seeds almost every at bat.

[Enscheff]

We have four position prospects in the higher levels who will be helping the major league team within a year or two. None are big-time power hitters. But to me the more important thing is they are good players. I like depth in numbers because you can't say in advance which one will become the All-Star. The one who is youngest for his level has the best chance, but that's not always how it works out.

The Braves are in serious trouble if they are planning on Peterson or Ruiz to be anything more than 1 WAR players. If plugging those guys into LF or 3B is the plan, I wouldn't hold my breath for watching playoff baseball in Atlanta the rest of this decade.

[nsacpi]

The prudent plan with respect to Ruiz and Peterson is to view them as potential parts of a platoon. Not necessarily with each other since they play different positions. But if you have someone like Prado who can play left and third, they could pair up. And both have some upside and could end up as more than platoon players. I think both will end up as useful major league players. Cornerstones of a championship team? I don't think anyone is saying that.

[50PoundHead]

The Braves are in serious trouble if they are planning on Peterson or Ruiz to be anything more than 1 WAR players. If plugging those guys into LF or 3B is the plan, I wouldn't hold my breath for watching playoff baseball in Atlanta the rest of this decade.

Well they are 22 and 21 respectively, so they probably haven't hit their ceilings yet. Power often comes later with some guys and that might be in play here. Peterson's OPS v. LHP is 1.026 right now and if that keeps up, he can at least be a solid platoon guy. Ruiz' power numbers don't look that hot and his Ks have jumped from last year, but he's still drawing walks in a league where he is 4.6 years younger than the average player.

[Preacher]

The Braves are in serious trouble if they are planning on Peterson or Ruiz to be anything more than 1 WAR players. If plugging those guys into LF or 3B is the plan, I wouldn't hold my breath for watching playoff baseball in Atlanta the rest of this decade.

Not sure why you're so quick to write off Peterson, he's been pretty good despite being young for his league, was also drafted relatively highly so he has some pedigree.

Looking at what he's done, I don't think it's crazy to project an above average corner outfielder as a possible outcome.

Not a star, but maybe a guy who can come up for a decent average with 15 homers. That's valuable.

He's young enough that he might still have more power

[bravesfanMatt]

Not sure why you're so quick to write off Peterson, he's been pretty good despite being young for his league, was also drafted relatively highly so he has some pedigree.

Looking at what he's done, I don't think it's crazy to project an above average corner outfielder as a possible outcome.

Not a star, but maybe a guy who can come up for a decent average with 15 homers. That's valuable.

He's young enough that he might still have more power

I got to see D. Pete twice this year and came away a huge fan. He just has a great plate approach. He hits line drives even when fouled off and doesn't swing a junk. I don't know about his bat speed, but he didn't seem to struggle in the games I watched.. that said, I don't think the Barons had any power pitchers either.

[auyushu]

Not sure why you're so quick to write off Peterson, he's been pretty good despite being young for his league, was also drafted relatively highly so he has some pedigree.

Looking at what he's done, I don't think it's crazy to project an above average corner outfielder as a possible outcome.


He's almost 22, that's not young for a player at AA that is going to make an impact. While there are a ton of 23 and 24 year olds at AA, they aren't generally decent prospects. Scouting reports have him as pretty average across the boards, and he's done nothing to change that perception. Rocking a .750ish OPS in AA means it's highly unlikely he is above average. Now he might be a useful 4th OF or platoon guy, but as Enscheff said, if we are starting guys like Dustin and Ruiz our offense is going to continue to royally suck, and we aren't going anywhere.

[bravesfanMatt]

really interested to see how Newcomb does today. his last two starts have been against average to below average teams. This Jackson team seems good based on record. I don't know much about them.. but I would like Newcomb to continue his good work of late.

[Southcack77]

He's almost 22, that's not young for a player at AA that is going to make an impact. While there are a ton of 23 and 24 year olds at AA, they aren't generally decent prospects. Scouting reports have him as pretty average across the boards, and he's done nothing to change that perception. Rocking a .750ish OPS in AA means it's highly unlikely he is above average. Now he might be a useful 4th OF or platoon guy, but as Enscheff said, if we are starting guys like Dustin and Ruiz our offense is going to continue to royally suck, and we aren't going anywhere.

Don't know if this is true, but saw this the other day:

gondeee
‏@gondeee
One of my favorite stats for prospects... Dustin Peterson has faced a pitcher younger than him in just 2 of 323 plate appearances this year.

[Preacher]

He's almost 22, that's not young for a player at AA that is going to make an impact. While there are a ton of 23 and 24 year olds at AA, they aren't generally decent prospects. Scouting reports have him as pretty average across the boards, and he's done nothing to change that perception. Rocking a .750ish OPS in AA means it's highly unlikely he is above average. Now he might be a useful 4th OF or platoon guy, but as Enscheff said, if we are starting guys like Dustin and Ruiz our offense is going to continue to royally suck, and we aren't going anywhere.

He's 21 right now, almost 22 is hardly old for AA, he is younger than Dansby right??

He's also coming off a month where his OPS was .827. It's too soon to say he can't be a solid starter.

[bravos4evr]

He's 21 right now, almost 22 is hardly old for AA, he is younger than Dansby right??

He's also coming off a month where his OPS was .827. It's too soon to say he can't be a solid starter.

I agree, I watched him play the Shuckers a few weeks back and his approach at the plate was mature and he made solid contact . I think he has a chance to be a league avg starter and maybe a little more as he moves up.

[auyushu]

He's 21 right now, almost 22 is hardly old for AA, he is younger than Dansby right??

He's also coming off a month where his OPS was .827. It's too soon to say he can't be a solid starter.

Who said he was old? You claimed he was young for the level, I'm saying he's really not in terms of prospects who go on to be above average players generally. Being 21-22 in AA is pretty normal for good prospects in MLB. And yes, he's about 6 months younger than Dansby, though I fail to see what that has to do with anything.

And nobody said he couldn't be an average starter, you were claiming above average, which is an entirely different ballgame. We can't afford to have more average starters offensively, we have an entire lineup filled with them outside of Freddie. And that's why we have the worst offense in baseball.

I'd love to see him become an above average starter, we sure as hell could use a good corner OF. But he'll have to show some major improvement going forward to hit that. Peterson was pretty meh in A ball and high A ball, and has been merely average with the bat this year. He's a fringe prospect at best right now.

[bravos4evr]

We can't afford to have more average starters offensively, we have an entire lineup filled with them outside of Freddie


Umm, right now, we have a bunch of below average starters and Freddie and Inciarte. Jace is working his way there to avg, but I want to see him sustain his hitting for a bit longer.

[Preacher]

Being 21-22 in AA is pretty normal for good prospects in MLB. And yes, he's about 6 months younger than Dansby, though I fail to see what that has to do with anything.

And nobody said he couldn't be an average starter, you were claiming above average, which is an entirely different ballgame. We can't afford to have more average starters offensively, we have an entire lineup filled with them outside of Freddie. And that's why we have the worst offense in baseball.

I just said " I don't think it's crazy to project an above average corner outfielder as a possible outcome."

Above average as a possible outcome is hardly crazy and if you're going to knock him for his age it's prudent to point out he's younger than Swanson who everybody loves and is at the same level.

I'm just not going to make definitive statements like 'we are Fd if this guy is a starter for us in two years'

It's too early when he's performing well and he's young for his league.

[bravos4evr]

I just said " I don't think it's crazy to project an above average corner outfielder as a possible outcome."

Above average as a possible outcome is hardly crazy and if you're going to knock him for his age it's prudent to point out he's younger than Swanson who everybody loves and is at the same level.

I'm just not going to make definitive statements like 'we are Fd if this guy is a starter for us in two years'

It's too early when he's performing well and he's young for his league.

Indeed, and you never know what a guy is going to end up as at MLB. Some guys excel, some guys fail, some guys end up exactly what it appeared they'd be. I see no reason that Peterson shouldn't get a shot out there after 2017, lawd knows we could use a cheap power bat.

[Southcack77]

Who said he was old? You claimed he was young for the level, I'm saying he's really not in terms of prospects who go on to be above average players generally. Being 21-22 in AA is pretty normal for good prospects in MLB. And yes, he's about 6 months younger than Dansby, though I fail to see what that has to do with anything.

And nobody said he couldn't be an average starter, you were claiming above average, which is an entirely different ballgame. We can't afford to have more average starters offensively, we have an entire lineup filled with them outside of Freddie. And that's why we have the worst offense in baseball.

I'd love to see him become an above average starter, we sure as hell could use a good corner OF. But he'll have to show some major improvement going forward to hit that. Peterson was pretty meh in A ball and high A ball, and has been merely average with the bat this year. He's a fringe prospect at best right now.

But he's only had two plate appearances against a pitcher younger than him in his career. That suggests he is young for the level.

There is a pretty big difference in being a great player and being a good player. If he's just a good corner OF, that is certainly helpful to Atlanta and that is certainly on the table. Players with less promising starts have gone on to be stars.

I wouldn't put the star label on him, but not clear why you'd be so quick to declare a bust.

[auyushu]

I wouldn't put the star label on him, but not clear why you'd be so quick to declare a bust.

Good grief, whole lot of people putting words in my mouth in this thread. Never said anything about a bust, just said the chances of him becoming an above average player are very small, and he's shown absolutely no signs of it so far. I think he has a very good chance of being a 1-2 WAR player (same for Ruiz), but that's not above average, and our batting lineup can't really afford more of those.

[auyushu]

Umm, right now, we have a bunch of below average starters and Freddie and Inciarte. Jace is working his way there to avg, but I want to see him sustain his hitting for a bit longer.

Most of our starters are right around 100 wRC+, outside of Inciarte, Garcia, and Aybar (and Mallex and Nick are slightly below). So basically dead average for most of them offensively. Inciarte is part of the problem, he's not a great bat, basically the CF/RF version of Simba right now. Which would be fine if we had two more Freddie Freeman's in the lineup, but we don't.

We basically have Freddie, a couple of black holes offensively, and a bunch of average bats.

I'm not saying Peterson or Ruiz wouldn't upgrades over the crap we are putting out there in LF and 3B right now, cause they have a good chance to be, but if we are putting them out there we're going to have a bottom 5 offense still.

[nsacpi]

If we stay with what is currently available within the system here is my take on our lineup in 2018:

C--below average
1B-above average
2B--above average
SS--above average
3B--below average
LF--below average
CF--average
RF--above average

This is overall value, incorporating defense, hitting and baserunning.

I might add there are degrees of above and below average. Guys like Peterson and Ruiz could be below average if the peer group is major league regulars at their position, but they could still help us if they are better than the alternatives.

[Southcack77]

Good grief, whole lot of people putting words in my mouth in this thread. Never said anything about a bust, just said the chances of him becoming an above average player are very small, and he's shown absolutely no signs of it so far. I think he has a very good chance of being a 1-2 WAR player (same for Ruiz), but that's not above average, and our batting lineup can't really afford more of those.

Fair enough, but didn't you also say if the Braves were counting on him and Ruiz as major league players the franchise was in trouble (If that was someone else, sorry)? that suggests a certain feeling.


Also, you said he wasn't particularly young for the level, but it appears that he is still young for the level. He's not as young as Miguel Cabrera was, but if he's only faced one or two pitchers who was younger in his AA career...

I think he's as likely to end up .280 15-20 HR as the next non generational talent. Which might not be a particularly likely result, but I don't think anything to date has taken that off the table.

[auyushu]

Fair enough, but didn't you also say if the Braves were counting on him and Ruiz as major league players the franchise was in trouble (If that was someone else, sorry)? that suggests a certain feeling.


I think you are referring to Enscheff's post, but I mostly agree with him there. Our offense has been the worst in baseball the last two years, adding those two as starters isn't going to help matters much. If they are starting for us that means our offense is going to be woeful for the next few years. I think Peterson is the type of player who would be great in LF for the Red Sox as a cheap slightly above replacement level player, but it's hard to squeeze those players in when your entire offense is filled with those players. Not that they wouldn't be decent upgrades over the scrubs we are running out there now, but having them there just bascially seals the deal that our offense is going to be bottom third or bottom quarter in baseball, no matter how well Albies and Swanson play.

And I said he wasn't young for a prospect that has a chance to make it in MLB, not for the level itself. He's definitely younger based on average age, but that includes alot of career minor leaguers that will never touch the majors. Any decent prospect (particularly a high school prospect) is hitting AA at 21 or 22, or they aren't really a major prospect. If you are hitting AA at 23 or 24 you have struggled badly at lower levels and had to repeat levels, and aren't really a top prospect. Most top prospects are at least hitting AAA by the end of their age 23 year, so I consider Peterson to simply be on track. I'm sure most of the legit pitchers he's facing are 22, but I don't see 6 months to a year of age making that much different there in AA, it's not like we are talking about Albies facing AA or AAA pitchers here.

[Preacher]

Bad Newcombe showed up today.

[CJ9]

First outing for Caleb Dirks since the trade: 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 0 K.

[nsacpi]

Interesting to see Peterson in center and Meneses in left.

[msstate7]

Interesting to see Peterson in center and Meneses in left.

Anyone go see Peterson in cf?

[50PoundHead]

If we stay with what is currently available within the system here is my take on our lineup in 2018:

C--below average
1B-above average
2B--above average
SS--above average
3B--below average
LF--below average
CF--average
RF--above average

This is overall value, incorporating defense, hitting and baserunning.

I might add there are degrees of above and below average. Guys like Peterson and Ruiz could be below average if the peer group is major league regulars at their position, but they could still help us if they are better than the alternatives.

It takes a whole team on offense and you can move around production. One of the great advantages the Braves had during their dynasty is that they got a lot of production out of positions that are traditionally not offense-centric (C and CF in particular). When you do that, you don't need a whole heckuva lot out of your Lemkes and Julio Francos. Add to that if you have splice together a couple of good platoons, you can get enhance the performance of guys considered to be "average."

I'm not apologizing for the current situation nor am I saying guys like Dustin Peterson and Rio Ruiz are locks to perform at the big league level. The big thing is to build around Freeman (and hopefully Swanson and Albies).

[Enscheff]

Guys like Ruiz and Peterson (both Jace and Dustin) are guys that can come up to a competitive team and take over a position while they are cheap. Since the team is already good, players like that can hit 7th or 8th and not kill the team. They are the definition of fungible MLB players and are only useful while cheap.

They problem is the Braves suck. LF and and 3b are black holes that must be improved. Guys like Ruiz are not good enough to make a bad team good.

Sure, it's nice to have guys like that ready to be called up to fill holes, but to call them potential "above average players" is extremely wishful thinking. The Braves have 4 position players in the system who have a legitimate chance of being more than 2 WAR placeholders: Swanson, Albjes, Acuna, and now Maitan.

[CJ9]

Guys like Ruiz and Peterson (both Jace and Dustin) are guys that can come up to a competitive team and take over a position while they are cheap. Since the team is already good, players like that can hit 7th or 8th and not kill the team. They are the definition of fungible MLB players and are only useful while cheap.

They problem is the Braves suck. LF and and 3b are black holes that must be improved. Guys like Ruiz are not good enough to make a bad team good.

Sure, it's nice to have guys like that ready to be called up to fill holes, but to call them potential "above average players" is extremely wishful thinking. The Braves have 4 position players in the system who have a legitimate chance of being more than 2 WAR placeholders: Swanson, Albjes, Acuna, and now Maitan.

And not to hijack, but I think this is another clear reason of why we cannot keep Teheran.

[Enscheff]

It takes a whole team on offense and you can move around production. One of the great advantages the Braves had during their dynasty is that they got a lot of production out of positions that are traditionally not offense-centric (C and CF in particular). When you do that, you don't need a whole heckuva lot out of your Lemkes and Julio Francos. Add to that if you have splice together a couple of good platoons, you can get enhance the performance of guys considered to be "average."

I'm not apologizing for the current situation nor am I saying guys like Dustin Peterson and Rio Ruiz are locks to perform at the big league level. The big thing is to build around Freeman (and hopefully Swanson and Albies).

The good Braves team also had a Chipper Jones and his CAREER .900+ OPS anchoring the middle of the lineup. I don't think quite appreciate how good Chopper was consistently for a LONG time. His average year was better than any single year any Braves player has posted since he retired.

A bunch of players like Freeman and Swanson aren't going to make up for some below average players like Chipper did.

[Hudson2]

I saw Peterson in cf all weekend. He's not bad out there at all. Strong arm too.

[msstate7]

I saw Peterson in cf all weekend. He's not bad out there at all. Strong arm too.

Think he could actually stick there?

[bravos4evr]

Most of our starters are right around 100 wRC+, outside of Inciarte, Garcia, and Aybar (and Mallex and Nick are slightly below). So basically dead average for most of them offensively. Inciarte is part of the problem, he's not a great bat, basically the CF/RF version of Simba right now. Which would be fine if we had two more Freddie Freeman's in the lineup, but we don't.

We basically have Freddie, a couple of black holes offensively, and a bunch of average bats.

I'm not saying Peterson or Ruiz wouldn't upgrades over the crap we are putting out there in LF and 3B right now, cause they have a good chance to be, but if we are putting them out there we're going to have a bottom 5 offense still.

I was talking about overall value tho, not just offense. Inciarte and Freeman are the only two guys who project over 2 WARover 600/PA's, the rest project at or below 2. If we can get a couple more 2's and add a 3 and a 4+, we'd be in pretty good shape.

[bravos4evr]

Guys like Ruiz and Peterson (both Jace and Dustin) are guys that can come up to a competitive team and take over a position while they are cheap. Since the team is already good, players like that can hit 7th or 8th and not kill the team. They are the definition of fungible MLB players and are only useful while cheap.

They problem is the Braves suck. LF and and 3b are black holes that must be improved. Guys like Ruiz are not good enough to make a bad team good.

Sure, it's nice to have guys like that ready to be called up to fill holes, but to call them potential "above average players" is extremely wishful thinking. The Braves have 4 position players in the system who have a legitimate chance of being more than 2 WAR placeholders: Swanson, Albjes, Acuna, and now Maitan.

I think when you consider Riley's age and power he has to be mentioned has having the potential as well. Cumberland too per his bat (if he can stick at catcher). I'm not ready to look at a bad K rate at age 19 and cast a guy off already. Not in the lower levels.

[Tapate50]

With Ruiz first half nearly in the books, is he a guy that could sneak into some lists? Peterson?