Game of Thrones

[BlackwaterPark]

This thread is all about the best show on tv!




http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/078/2/b/game_of_thrones_wallpaper__seven_noble_houses_by_m cnealy-d4tbx4e.png

[zitothebrave]

Didn't realize this thread was about Archer.

[DaneHill]

This thread is all about the best show on tv!

Then you misspelled Teen Wolf! :banana:

I'd better avoid this thread. I've only seen Season 1. It was excellent though, and am PATIENTLY waiting for my brother to catch up so he & I can watch Seasons 2 and 3 together. :popcorn:

[BlackwaterPark]

I cant edit original post, but I want to make this clear. I want this thread to be only about the show. No book readers please unless you only talk about what has been shown on the show!

[BlackwaterPark]

Then you misspelled Teen Wolf! :banana:

I'd better avoid this thread. I've only seen Season 1. It was excellent though, and am PATIENTLY waiting for my brother to catch up so he & I can watch Seasons 2 and 3 together. :popcorn:


Seasons 2 and 3 are very very good.

[DaneHill]

Seasons 2 and 3 are very very good.

I've got Season 2 on blu-ray ready to go. Chomping at the bit! Come on, brother! :whip:

[BlackwaterPark]

I've got Season 2 on blu-ray ready to go. Chomping at the bit! Come on, brother! :whip:


How far behind is he?

[DaneHill]

How far behind is he?

Halfway through the first season. He's obsessing over Supernatural lately, watching all those seasons the past few weeks, so it's slowed the roll of GoT.

[Dalyn]

This is a great thread.

[BremanFan88]

The night is dark and full of terrors.

[Dalyn]

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Gallery/

Season 4 is coming!

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Graphics/Gallery/GameOfThrones_Joffrey_03.jpg

[Dalyn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5iS3tULXMQ&feature=youtu.be

[zitothebrave]

So what are the Odds that Game of Thrones becomes the Walking Dead? An oddly popular nerd show that the masses cling to but loses its heart and turns lame.

[Gary82]

So what are the Odds that Game of Thrones becomes the Walking Dead? An oddly popular nerd show that the masses cling to but loses its heart and turns lame.

A lot of shows do that. At the end of Dexter, I was hate-watching it.

I'm hoping the quality of the show keeps up.

[zitothebrave]

Dexter was worthless after season like 4. But it wasn't quite as nerdcore of a base.

[Gary82]

Dexter was worthless after season like 4. But it wasn't quite as nerdcore of a base.

Agreed. It went downhill after Lithgow.

[Dalyn]

So what are the Odds that Game of Thrones becomes the Walking Dead? An oddly popular nerd show that the masses cling to but loses its heart and turns lame.

If it stays true (basically) to the source material, I can't imagine that happening (the series is incredible). It is also extremely popular right now and getting great publicity. I am sure, same as now, there will be haters. Always are.

[BlackwaterPark]

Pretty sure we are naming a daughter Arya :)

[zitothebrave]

If it stays true (basically) to the source material, I can't imagine that happening (the series is incredible). It is also extremely popular right now and getting great publicity. I am sure, same as now, there will be haters. Always are.

The trick is staying true to the source material. And walking dead fits the popular, adn great publicity. But it's clearly not the same show it was when it started.

For some reason the more I look back at TWD I think that it would have been much better in a Sherlock format, a small handful of hour long shows instead of a tradition full season format. Go with say a 4 episode format following the general format that comics have.

[Tapate50]

Big question is what material will GoT follow ? Not long til they run out of material....

[BlackwaterPark]

Big question is what material will GoT follow ? Not long til they run out of material....

They still have 2 more 1000+ page books to go through and the series of books is not over yet..I think the plan I had heard was 8 seasons for the series

[BlackwaterPark]

The trick is staying true to the source material. And walking dead fits the popular, adn great publicity. But it's clearly not the same show it was when it started.

For some reason the more I look back at TWD I think that it would have been much better in a Sherlock format, a small handful of hour long shows instead of a tradition full season format. Go with say a 4 episode format following the general format that comics have.

People these days don't have the attention span for that lol

[Dalyn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fJ-YKex-oc

[Dalyn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2ZNaLQD60Y

[Dalyn]

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1958152_635212496551335_2095636159_n.jpg

[Dalyn]

SPOILER


http://variety.com/2014/film/news/games-of-thrones-season-3-slays-home-video-sales-1201122008/

[Dalyn]

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1489146_10152005942522734_589947337_n.jpg

[BlackwaterPark]

i really want to start reading the books, but its such a commitment.

[Dalyn]

i really want to start reading the books, but its such a commitment.

They are fantastic. So much more nuance with the character development. The show has to cut a lot of that. Martin is a phenomenal writer, so that helps. His background in horror really shines in a few of the scenes.

[BlackwaterPark]

i read most of the first book, so im just going to start with the second one i think

[cajunrevenge]

Try the audio books and listen while you drive. I just started ADWD this way.

[BlackwaterPark]

Try the audio books and listen while you drive. I just started ADWD this way.

Doesnt really work for me, i only live 2 miles from work. I bout clash of kings last night and will have it Monday :)

[Metaphysicist]

Doesnt really work for me, i only live 2 miles from work. I bout clash of kings last night and will have it Monday :)

Walk to work.

[bravesnumberone]

Just caught up on this over the last two weeks. Ready for tonight.

[BlackwaterPark]

Just caught up on this over the last two weeks. Ready for tonight.

So what did ya think

[bravesnumberone]

So what did ya think

Insane stuff. Very good. Haven't read the books, but I hear it follows pretty close?

[Dalyn]

Fantastic opening episode. Watching Arya kill is so much fun.

[Dalyn]

Insane stuff. Very good. Haven't read the books, but I hear it follows pretty close?

Yep. Some changes, but nothing critical.

[Dalyn]

It is hard not to love an episode when my two favorite characters (Jaime and Arya) have significant scenes.

[Krgrecw]

I haven't read any of the books and have no idea of anything that's going to happen in the future but tonight's ending. Damn

[Dalyn]

Interesting exchange at 33:40, if anyone missed it. :icwudt:

[Krgrecw]

I didn't see anything at 33:40.

[BlackwaterPark]

I haven't read any of the books and have no idea of anything that's going to happen in the future but tonight's ending. Damn

The ending was good, but did anyone else think the episode was a little blah?

[50PoundHead]

I haven't read any of the books and have no idea of anything that's going to happen in the future but tonight's ending. Damn

I'm midway through the fourth book (it's taken me from the beginning of the show three years ago to get this far) so I know the basic framework of what is coming. Dalyn's right. The books are very dense, but the density is packed with a lot of nuance and detail (some it almost overwhelming) that helps point the way for the plot.

Joffrey is the most hateful character in the series (although he is rivaled by his mother and Bolton's bastard at some points), so it was good to see him go. The scene in the book is more complex and detailed, so it was interesting to see how it was shaped for television.

[Dalyn]

I didn't see anything at 33:40.

Listen to the conversation and pause it at 33:55 and really pay attention to Sansa. (time stamp may be different, but it should be close)

[Dalyn]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/eb19ebd11aafb8afe743697058da758f/tumblr_n403n7y25c1qzqdk8o1_500.jpg


AND

http://i.imgur.com/W0oQVsY.jpg

[Dalyn]

"War is war, but killing a man at a wedding? Horrid. What sort of monster would do such a thing? As if men need more reasons to fear marriage."

[bravesnumberone]

That little **** deserved every bit of that.

[Krgrecw]

Sounded like in an interview with a head of HBO that HBO already has it mapped out how they will end Games even though Martin has written that far yet.

[jpx7]

A satisfying end to the second episode of this season.

Meanwhile, I was very pleased with Mindy Kaling's thoughts on the matter:


I hope nothing happens to Joffrey I love him — Mindy Kaling (@mindykaling) April 14, 2014 (https://twitter.com/mindykaling/statuses/455528472480206849)

[Dalyn]

Sounded like in an interview with a head of HBO that HBO already has it mapped out how they will end Games even though Martin has written that far yet.

Yeah. They met with him and he told them how it ends.

[Krgrecw]

I just hope it 'ends' None of that leaving it open in case you ever want to come back to it crap .

[Dalyn]

I just hope it 'ends' None of that leaving it open in case you ever want to come back to it crap .

Martin is NOTHING like that.

[weso1]

This show has really got me back into drinking red wine.

[Tapate50]

Seeing some differences pop up from the books, but its been awhile since i read the first few. Anyone else noticing?

[Dalyn]

Seeing some differences pop up from the books, but its been awhile since i read the first few. Anyone else noticing?

The Jaime scene is the biggest one so far. I knew that was going to be a problem when they brought him home early.

[50PoundHead]

Seeing some differences pop up from the books, but its been awhile since i read the first few. Anyone else noticing?

Some here and there. I can only store so many characters in my head, so I think there's been more in terms of divergence from the books than I've noticed, but I have noticed a few things.

Last night's episode jumped ahead to Book 6 (or maybe even 7) because there is a scene not contained in any of the first five books.

[Dalyn]

Some here and there. I can only store so many characters in my head, so I think there's been more in terms of divergence from the books than I've noticed, but I have noticed a few things.

Last night's episode jumped ahead to Book 6 (or maybe even 7) because there is a scene not contained in any of the first five books.

The whole Bran situation is completely new.

And they also changed who named Oathkeeper. I guess they don't like Jaime. Two of the most recent changes were pointless character assassination pieces against him. He is one of my favorites in the book, so this is the first time I've been unhappy with the show. Really irritates me. The skill in which Jaime's character is developed in the series is just another sign of how awesome Martin is. Hate that they've ****ed with it.

[50PoundHead]

The whole Bran situation is completely new.

And they also changed who named Oathkeeper. I guess they don't like Jaime. Two of the most recent changes were pointless character assassination pieces against him. He is one of my favorites in the book, so this is the first time I've been unhappy with the show. Really irritates me. The skill in which Jaime's character is developed in the series is just another sign of how awesome Martin is. Hate that they've ****ed with it.

Agree. Never picked a favorite in the book (except Danerys is my least favorite), but the development of Jamie that I've seen in the books is really muted in the series.

Had to look up a couple of things today to try to remember the exact Bran situation because I simply didn't recall what was depicted last night as being in the third or fourth books.

It looks like HBO is really going to condense things with a lot of shorthand. Martin seems to be handling it fairly well, but I imagine it's going to tick off a lot of A Song of Ice and Fire fans.

[Dalyn]

Agree. Never picked a favorite in the book (except Danerys is my least favorite), but the development of Jamie that I've seen in the books is really muted in the series.

Had to look up a couple of things today to try to remember the exact Bran situation because I simply didn't recall what was depicted last night as being in the third or fourth books.

It looks like HBO is really going to condense things with a lot of shorthand. Martin seems to be handling it fairly well, but I imagine it's going to tick off a lot of A Song of Ice and Fire fans.

If they condense too much, they are going to have a huge problem. That is why I am not upset when they add new plots like with Bran. But changing a character as drastically as they are changing Jaime is just pointless. Stannis is another they can't seem to get right. Other than that, I absolutely love the show.

[Dalyn]

Agree. Never picked a favorite in the book (except Danerys is my least favorite), but the development of Jamie that I've seen in the books is really muted in the series.


I like so many, but I particularly like Jaime and Arya. They are nailing the **** out of Arya, at least.

[Krgrecw]

Dylan, I haven't read the books but enjoy the show. Did HBO really **** up on a spoiler that hasn't even been written about in the books yet?


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5227515?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

[Dalyn]

Dylan, I haven't read the books but enjoy the show. Did HBO really **** up on a spoiler that hasn't even been written about in the books yet?


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5227515?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

No. Not really.

[TURBO]

Havent read this thread to avoid spoilers, but Finally got to watching Game of Thrones. Amazing show. Totally addicted. Just finished up season 3. Red wedding, was rough.

[Dalyn]

Havent read this thread to avoid spoilers, but Finally got to watching Game of Thrones. Amazing show. Totally addicted. Just finished up season 3. Red wedding, was rough.

Some season four spoilers already posted, so watch yourself.

[TURBO]

All caught up now. Really enjoying it. Arya is my favorite. Has been since like season 1. She is only getting better. Danerys is probably my second favorite. Cool watching it come together for her. And I love me some HODOR!

[cajunrevenge]

Can't wait till zombie robb stark comes back with the wolf head and starts killing everyone. Thats my favorite part.

[bravesnumberone]

Given that it's Game of Thrones, I'm honestly not sure whether Cajun is joking or spoiling something.

[Krgrecw]

All caught up now. Really enjoying it. Arya is my favorite. Has been since like season 1. She is only getting better. Danerys is probably my second favorite. Cool watching it come together for her. And I love me some HODOR!


Danerys was my number one until she came out and said. 'No more nude scenes' :(

[TURBO]

Danerys was my number one until she came out and said. 'No more nude scenes' :(

This makes me sad.

[jpx7]

Best episode yet. Incredible direction.

Those final twenty minutes or so were the most violent of the series. Amazing.

[Dalyn]

Best episode yet. Incredible direction.

Those final twenty minutes or so were the most violent of the series. Amazing.

Loved it. Dinklage nailed that scene.

[TURBO]

Loved it. Dinklage nailed that scene.

This.

[The Chosen One]

I may need to binge watch... something I don't really like doing.

[Krgrecw]

War of Roses connection? Deliberate no. Subconsciously there's something there.

[BlackwaterPark]

Danerys was my number one until she came out and said. 'No more nude scenes' :(

I still dont think it was her who said that, IMO it was Shae

[Dalyn]

I still dont think it was her who said that, IMO it was Shae

It definitely wasn't Clarke. She had a nude scene the season after that article. It COULD'VE been filmed before, I suppose, but I seriously doubt it, especially considering her comments regarding HBO and her sex scenes.

[cajunrevenge]

War of Roses connection? Deliberate no. Subconsciously there's something there.

It was inspired partly by the war of roses, but with dragons and ice zombies.

[jpx7]

I still dont think it was her who said that, IMO it was Shae

It was Theon.

[jpx7]

It was inspired partly by the war of roses, but with dragons and ice zombies.

Uhm, I'm pretty sure there were dragons and ice-zombies during the real War of the Roses, too—it's the Hodor that's been invented.

[weso1]

I may need to binge watch... something I don't really like doing.

You pretty much have no choice. Once you get started it's very hard not to keep watching.

[BlackwaterPark]

It definitely wasn't Clarke. She had a nude scene the season after that article. It COULD'VE been filmed before, I suppose, but I seriously doubt it, especially considering her comments regarding HBO and her sex scenes.

and the fact she was nude every night in a broadway play afterwards

[TURBO]

Tonights ending.. Just.. huh...

[Dalyn]

Going to miss Tyrion. Dinklage did such an amazing job. Can't wait to see him nail his final speech.

[Tapate50]

Kinda liked the Dornishman, was hoping he stuck around somehow. He was an interesting character.

[Krgrecw]

Tonights ending.. Just.. huh...


I didn't see that coming.

[weso1]

Dalyn better be screwing with those of us who haven't read the book, if not then you need to spoiler tag that crap.

[BlackwaterPark]

Exactly......

[Dalyn]

Dalyn better be screwing with those of us who haven't read the book, if not then you need to spoiler tag that crap.

Oh, come on. I've never spoiled anything to do with Game of Thrones in my life. I'm just having some fun. :cooter:

[Dalyn]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpJEy-xIMAAXcUh.jpg:large

[keithlaw]

Oh, come on. I've never spoiled anything to do with Game of Thrones in my life. I'm just having some fun. :cooter:

The real spoiler is that Martin dies before finishing the series

[Dalyn]

The real spoiler is that Martin dies before finishing the series

I am not one of those fans. The main reason I want him to finish is so he can move on.

[weso1]

Oh, come on. I've never spoiled anything to do with Game of Thrones in my life. I'm just having some fun. :cooter:

Honestly, I would have almost certainly read the spoiler anyway.

[Runnin]

Going to miss Tyrion. Dinklage did such an amazing job. Can't wait to see him nail his final speech.
He's not dead yet. His brother will try to help him escape.

[bravesnumberone]

I thought Arya's laugh pretty much summed up that whole episode for me. Damn Tyrion...

Traditionally, the ninth episode of the season has been when the **** went down. Can't wait.

[Dalyn]

I thought Arya's laugh pretty much summed up that whole episode for me. Damn Tyrion...

Traditionally, the ninth episode of the season has been when the **** went down. Can't wait.

Maisie Williams nails that role as well as Dinklage nails Tyrion. Amazing.

[cajunrevenge]

He's not dead yet. His brother will try to help him escape.

Giving people false hope, I like it.

Don't worry everyone all your favorite characters come back as zombies. Except Jon Snow. People are gonna **** bricks when he dies.

[BRule]

He's not dead yet. His brother will try to help him escape.

That was/is my theory as well

*Have not read the books*

But that seems like where it's heading.

[jpx7]

Maisie Williams nails that role as well as Dinklage nails Tyrion. Amazing.

Both Sophie Turner and her character are really coming on strong. That arc of development has been spectacular: from that bratty, superficial, naïve older sister to a hardened operator who looks like she has the potential to play old devious Carcetti.

[Dalyn]

Both Sophie Turner and her character are really coming on strong. That arc of development has been spectacular: from that bratty, superficial, naïve older sister to a hardened operator who looks like she has the potential to play old devious Carcetti.

Arya has my favorite storyline in the books. Can't wait.

[jpx7]

Arya has my favorite storyline in the books. Can't wait.

Having not read the books, Arya was nonetheless one of my favorites from early on—but Sansa's arc has me almost as interested in her narrative as any of the other (extant) Stark children's.

[Tapate50]

Giving people false hope, I like it.

Don't worry everyone all your favorite characters come back as zombies. Except Jon Snow. People are gonna **** bricks when he dies.

You mean Ned Stark dies?!!?!?!? WTF?!!?!?

[Dalyn]

http://www.tor.com/images/stories/blogs/14_01/grrm%20maisie%20wolf.jpg

[Dalyn]

Five hours.


http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2014/05/tyrion2.jpg

[Krgrecw]

Good episode tonight.

[TURBO]

Really enjoyed that episode. So much action. Felt like a movie.

Loved the giant bow the giant used. His bows were like bazookas.

[Dalyn]

One day closer.

http://www.nerdcoremovement.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-peter-dinklage.jpg

[Dalyn]

@GRRMspeaking

[jpx7]

Poor Ygritte.

I was much more attached to her than I was Oberyn Martell.

[Tapate50]

Poor Ygritte.

I was much more attached to her than I was Oberyn Martell.

It is a shame. They don't make sexually aggressive, fire haired, good looking women that are great with a bow anymore.

[Dalyn]

Man. Dinklage is busy next year. Nice to see this show get him some much deserved attention.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0227759/

[Tapate50]

Getting a lil wierd tonight...

[Krgrecw]

Good season finale.

[Tapate50]

About this point forward the books lose a little "purpose" to me. Turns into long journeys with not a ton of direction . Arya especially.

[tomahawkchop10]

Started a few weeks ago and just caught up. Love the show. Didn't really love the finale though. First 30 mins sucked last 30 made up for it though imo. Sad to see the hound go, really liked him. At least tyrion went off. Love that little imp. Love Daeneyrs Stormborn too, she's my favorite character.

[bravesnumberone]

Pretty solid season. Finale had some fine moments, but didn't really grab me like the writers were saying it would. A couple of the story lines just really aren't that interesting right now.

[tomahawkchop10]

Pretty solid season. Finale had some fine moments, but didn't really grab me like the writers were saying it would. A couple of the story lines just really aren't that interesting right now.

Agreed. The whole Bran story just doesn't do it for me. More mother of dragons and tyrion please. I liked Aya and the hound, but will be interesting if Aya can be as interesting without the hound...

[Dalyn]

Agreed. The whole Bran story just doesn't do it for me. More mother of dragons and tyrion please. I liked Aya and the hound, but will be interesting if Aya can be as interesting without the hound...

Arya has my favorite storyline from this point forth, for what it is worth.

[jpx7]

Best episode of this season.

[chop2chip]

Best episode of this season.

Definitely detouring from the books...

And that's a good thing imo.

Excellent season thus far and should only get better.

[Dalyn]

Definitely detouring from the books...

And that's a good thing imo.

Excellent season thus far and should only get better.

I like some of the changes. The Sansa change is excellent. But I hate the changes to Jaime and REALLY hate some of the characters being dead before their time or left out completely.

[chop2chip]

I like some of the changes. The Sansa change is excellent. But I hate the changes to Jaime and REALLY hate some of the characters being dead before their time or left out completely.

As a fellow book reader, I just don't believe it was ever realistic for the show to follow the same character arcs. Mance Rayder is a prime example. He is one of my absolute favorite characters, but that would never work in the series.

I am curious about the Iron Islands though. At some point they have to recognize them more than Theon and his sister. Elsewise they are going to have some major plot innovations.

[Dalyn]

As a fellow book reader, I just don't believe it was ever realistic for the show to follow the same character arcs. Mance Rayder is a prime example. He is one of my absolute favorite characters, but that would never work in the series.

I am curious about the Iron Islands though. At some point they have to recognize them more than Theon and his sister. Elsewise they are going to have some major plot innovations.

Some changes were absolutely necessary, and those are (for the most part) the ones that worked well. The pointless character assassination of Jaime (and destroying a masterful display of character growth from Martin) and just dropping plots like the Iron Islands and some others is silly. Martin is a MUCH better writer than David or Dan, and it shows more often than not when they make a change.

[Dalyn]

I still enjoy the **** out of the show, and I think they're doing a good job.

[Dalyn]

Some of these changes feel like bad fan fiction. The Ramsay and Miranda scene is a prime example. Ridiculous.

[Dalyn]

This season has bugged the **** out of me. The only storyline they haven't completely mangled (yet), is Arya's.

Positives with the season so far - Dragons look great. Acting and production are both still top notch, for the most part. Arya's storyline hasn't yet been altered drastically. More Bronn than the books (though I have a bad feeling about this one now). Stannis is finally showing the character growth from the books. Anything else?

[Tapate50]

This season has bugged the **** out of me. The only storyline they haven't completely mangled (yet), is Arya's.

Positives with the season so far - Dragons look great. Acting and production are both still top notch, for the most part. Arya's storyline hasn't yet been altered drastically. More Bronn than the books (though I have a bad feeling about this one now). Stannis is finally showing the character growth from the books. Anything else?

Everything to do with Dorne has been awful.

I was hoping Sansa had learned a thing or two from Baelish and would manipulate Ramsey to some degree, but it doesn't allude to that much at all.

[Dalyn]

Everything to do with Dorne has been awful.

I was hoping Sansa had learned a thing or two from Baelish and would manipulate Ramsey to some degree, but it doesn't allude to that much at all.

Yeah. And that fight with the Sand Snakes was a HUGE disappointment. I just hope they don't take after their daddy too much (poison).

Loras is now another low point. He was a badass in the books (and early in the show) that they've turned into a caricature of homosexuality. So many low points this season.

[Tapate50]

Yeah. And that fight with the Sand Snakes was a HUGE disappointment. I just hope they don't take after their daddy too much (poison).

Loras is now another low point. He was a badass in the books (and early in the show) that they've turned into a caricature of homosexuality. So many low points this season.

They made a point to show that Bronn(?) got nicked? That fight and everything around how they just walked into the water gardens was dumb. The whole sand snakes line has been awful. There is no development with them or Oberyn's wife.

Loras is another low point.

On the contrary, I have enjoyed Danaerys storyline and the Wall has been pretty interesting. Also liked the Stannis development....

[Dalyn]

They made a point to show that Bronn(?) got nicked? That fight and everything around how they just walked into the water gardens was dumb. The whole sand snakes line has been awful. There is no development with them or Oberyn's wife.

Loras is another low point.

On the contrary, I have enjoyed Danaerys storyline and the Wall has been pretty interesting. Also liked the Stannis development....

Yes. The Stannis development is FINALLY there. This is the Stannis we should've seen flashes of since the beginning.

And yeah...the Bronn cut is probably going to end up poisonous, and they'll have only added more Bronn for the sole reason of killing him. Complete pointless bull****. I hate that. This whole Dorne storyline would be MUCH better if they would've just stuck with the books. It would've at least made sense. Bad fan fiction. Like I said before. That's what their changes end up like more often than not.

[bravesnumberone]

Tonight's episode was a step up from the last few weeks.

[Krgrecw]

Tonight's episode was a step up from the last few weeks.


I think this has been the slowest, most uninteresting season yet for GoT. Hopefully it picks up

[Tapate50]

I think this has been the slowest, most uninteresting season yet for GoT. Hopefully it picks up

Haven't seen Sunday's episode yet, but that opinion is a lot like the books general consensus.

[chop2chip]

Haven't seen Sunday's episode yet, but that opinion is a lot like the books general consensus.
I must be weird, but I genuinely loved A Dance With Dragons.

My thoughts about this season are they can't adapt the best parts of AFFC and ADWD (the iron islands, Lord Manderly, Doran's revenge game, Oldtown, Mance Rayder etc.). But they have generally done pretty well with the material they covered. The High Sparrow plot never interested me in the books, but
the show has knocked that out of the park. I haven't hated Mereen (the book version is a miserable read) and they have done a good job expediting Tyrion's journey to Dany (and thankfully omitted the pig and Penny plot).

The unforgivable aspect of this season is Dorne. I can't believe how terrible the Sand Snakes are. This season would have been better off just omitting that subplot and going with the Iron Islands, IMO.

[Dalyn]

Haven't seen Sunday's episode yet, but that opinion is a lot like the books general consensus.

I loved the book. This season is a completely different situation and its problems have nothing to do with the book. It's because of all the pointless changes and omissions.

[Dalyn]

That scene in the fighting pits. Daenerys straight up sees fighters dragged in with chains (slaves) and says nothing? Yeah. Right. On top of MANY errors like that this season, they've rushed nearly every plotline to the detriment of the show. By far the worst season, in my opinion, and its flaws have very little to do with the source material.

[Tapate50]

I loved the book. This season is a completely different situation and its problems have nothing to do with the book. It's because of all the pointless changes and omissions.

The general trend on the books is the further it goes on, the less clear the intent or direction they seem to readers. Everyone just keeps wandering around. I felt the same. The first few were solid.

[Dalyn]

The general trend on the books is the further it goes on, the less clear the intent or direction they seem to readers. Everyone just keeps wandering around. I felt the same. The first few were solid.

I disagree completely. The problem is that people insist on thinking the series is just about the Iron Throne (about the "Game of Thrones"). It isn't. It's about A Song of Ice and Fire.

[Dalyn]

I must be weird, but I genuinely loved A Dance With Dragons.

Once the show started, it became trendy to hate on Martin.

[BRule]

I think this has been the slowest, most uninteresting season yet for GoT. Hopefully it picks up

Agreed....the show is overrated, it has had it's moments and one great season but from the start, to this point in the series, it's meh.

[bravesnumberone]

Yeah, I liked this last episode, but it is declining. Book readers have told me this is the season where they've really gotten off the books, so maybe the writers just don't have a lot of good ideas beyond riffs off Martin's work.

We'll see if there's a big payoff at the end of the season.

[chop2chip]

One of the best episodes that the show has ever done. That was incredible

[bravesnumberone]

Certainly can't call that episode boring or bad. Holy jumping Jesus balls....

[Krgrecw]

Best episode all season

[cajunrevenge]

Yeah, I liked this last episode, but it is declining. Book readers have told me this is the season where they've really gotten off the books, so maybe the writers just don't have a lot of good ideas beyond riffs off Martin's work.

We'll see if there's a big payoff at the end of the season.

Believe me there is big **** to come this season. Next two are going to be crazy good.

[Tapate50]

Pretty awesome episode.

[BlackwaterPark]

I agree, this episode was on par with the big 4 last season!

[weso1]

The point from which Snow realized what his sword could do till the end of the episode was pretty much perfect.

[Tapate50]

I was just a hair annoyed they brought us this strong female wildling character just to have her killed off right as we got to know her. Kind of strange. She had potential.

Digging Tormund by the way. Great character.

[Tapate50]

Just damn.

[chop2chip]

We book readers were finally spoiled. What Stannis did hadn't happened in the book yet (according to HBO Inside the Episode, it will happen in the book).

That was awful to watch.

[thewupk]

We book readers were finally spoiled. What Stannis did hadn't happened in the book yet (according to HBO Inside the Episode, it will happen in the book).

That was awful to watch.

That's interesting. Isn't the white walkers leader being the Nights King something that hasn't been confirmed in the books either?

[chop2chip]

That's interesting. Isn't the white walkers leader being the Nights King something that hasn't been confirmed in the books either?
That's also true, but the show has had a propensity of changing character roles so I would still wait to see that confirmed by George RR Martin as this one has been. (Although it's seems pretty obvious the Night's King is going to be character in the book as well.)

[Krgrecw]

i predict a lot of negative mainstream press for HBO and Game of Thrones about what Stannis did.

[Tapate50]

We book readers were finally spoiled. What Stannis did hadn't happened in the book yet (according to HBO Inside the Episode, it will happen in the book).

That was awful to watch.

Yep, saw it coming when sending his Hand away. Looks as if it might just work though. They allude to a lot of good fortune coming his way. It was just brutal to watch even for a TV show. They allude to how cold Stannis is in the books throughout. Been a wild ending to the season and glad those crazy Harpy people didn't get the jump on Dany and now Jorah is probably back in the fold. That was an interesting ride for him.

[thewupk]

Yep, saw it coming when sending his Hand away. Looks as if it might just work though. They allude to a lot of good fortune coming his way. It was just brutal to watch even for a TV show. They allude to how cold Stannis is in the books throughout. Been a wild ending to the season and glad those crazy Harpy people didn't get the jump on Dany and now Jorah is probably back in the fold. That was an interesting ride for him.

For now. I'm curious as to what they will do with him since he has that grayscale crap.

[Krgrecw]

Wtf

[Tapate50]

I can't even...


What these guys have done to the Stark family is criminal.

[bravesnumberone]

Well ****

[chop2chip]

Show watchers... You can no longer be spoiled. You have caught up with the rest of us. Therefore, we can all speculate together.

John Snow may have died, but I doubt he remains dead. He's the only connection the show has to the White Walkers.

In fact, I bet we find out in about a month when it's reported that Kit Harrington is on set in Ireland.

[Dalyn]

http://entertainment.ie/images_content/sad_sam_game_of_thrones.gif

[Krgrecw]

I hope Stannis is still alive. It never actually showed him dying.

[Tapate50]

I bet Frankenstein Mountain is going to create some carnage. Also, Dorne is about to be launched full scale into the show id imagine.

No lady stone heart ....still don't know what Briennes role is ....


No Jon? Blech . I was enjoying that story line the most lately.


I really hope Cersei comes down on the sparrows like a hammer.

[Tapate50]

Show watchers... You can no longer be spoiled. You have caught up with the rest of us. Therefore, we can all speculate together.

John Snow may have died, but I doubt he remains dead. He's the only connection the show has to the White Walkers.

In fact, I bet we find out in about a month when it's reported that Kit Harrington is on set in Ireland.

Some of it had already been new material, no?

It's been so long since I read them.

[Krgrecw]

Ian McShane was cast as a minor role in the upcoming season of GOT. Loved the dude on Deadwood

[Dalyn]

Ian McShane was cast as a minor role in the upcoming season of GOT. Loved the dude on Deadwood

I came here to mention this. Such a GREAT character on Deadwood, and an awesome actor to boot.

[chop2chip]

Nice season premiere.

You can definitely tell that the show is trying to trim the fat (Dorne's Godfather scene) as they move towards the last ~23 episodes.

[Tapate50]

So it seems John Snow really might be dead for good?

[TURBO]

So it seems John Snow really might be dead for good?

Thinking Meli might be giving up her life(youthful powers) for to Bring Jon back. Or she just has just lost the will to live and is giving up.

[chop2chip]

Thinking Meli might be giving up her life(youthful powers) for to Bring Jon back. Or she just has just lost the will to live and is giving up.
I could definitely see next week's episode open up with Davos going to see Mel and she's dead in her bed. Would certainly be a shocker for the "John Snow resurrection" camp.

[bravesnumberone]

I really hate Cersei but I'm looking forward to the hell she's about to bring down on those religious ****s.

[cajunrevenge]

So it seems John Snow really might be dead for good?

He is alive and you have seen him being alive in this episode. They just seem to be skipping that plot point for whatever reason.

[BlackwaterPark]

How so? How have we seen him alive?

[cajunrevenge]

Jon is Ghost right now. All the Stark kids are Wargs which means they can put their consciousness inside animals like Bran does with his wolf. The show has kind of glossed over this. In the prologue of the last book ADWD so far in the series is all about a wildling warg who dies and it shows what happens when a warg dies. They live on inside an animal that they warg into as they are dyeing, its kind of an automatic thing when they are so closely attached to an animal like the Stark kids are with their direwolves. Eventually if you stay warged long enough you forget who you were and become all animal. Melisande also has a vision that she tells to Jon of seeing him a man, then a wolf, then a man again of him.

[Krgrecw]

Good Episode. Nice shocker in there.

[weso1]

Really good episode. A couple of cards laid out on the table in regards to who the final players will be in the game of thrones.

[chop2chip]

Good Episode. Nice shocker in there.The obvious shocker was indeed obvious, but the show had to do that.

This season is going to be fantastic. They are jumping right into the meat of it all with little build up necessary.

[TURBO]

Old book spoiler-ly stuff

Still wish they would have done lady Stoneheart story line

[Dalyn]

It's on now.

:tchop:

[Tapate50]

It's on now.

:tchop:

I know I may be looking for something that may never come, but a lot of people need to get their karma kill off. Glad to see the Starks start to regain some footing maybe? Maybe Sansa, Jon Snow, Arya, and Bran come back and start giving some Lannisters their due.

I am not sure if they will because the Lannisters have become the main story line. Interested to see what happens at the Tower of Joy.

[thewupk]

I know I may be looking for something that may never come, but a lot of people need to get their karma kill off. Glad to see the Starks start to regain some footing maybe? Maybe Sansa, Jon Snow, Arya, and Bran come back and start giving some Lannisters their due.

I am not sure if they will because the Lannisters have become the main story line. Interested to see what happens at the Tower of Joy.

Baby John Snow. Bran will revisit that at the end of the season I bet as the big reveal.

[50PoundHead]

I've pondered whether somehow the triumvirate of Jon Snow, Tyrion Lannister, and Danerys Targaryen will unite. Kind of a tale of underdogs overcoming their various disadvantages to rule the seven kingdoms.

[thewupk]

I've pondered whether somehow the triumvirate of Jon Snow, Tyrion Lannister, and Danerys Targaryen will unite. Kind of a tale of underdogs overcoming their various disadvantages to rule the seven kingdoms.

It would somewhat make sense. It started with the 3 Targaryens conquering Westeros and there are strong rumors that Jon and Tyrion are both half Targaryen (at least in the books).

[chop2chip]

It would somewhat make sense. It started with the 3 Targaryens conquering Westeros and there are strong rumors that Jon and Tyrion are both half Targaryen (at least in the books).
I'm not a big fan of the Tyrion is a secret Targaryen theory.

Honestly, the Targaryen's are despicable people. I would hope the book wouldn't feel the need to prop the three most likeable characters to owing all of their abilities to a surname.

[Krgrecw]

if you notice during the Tower of Joy scene after Bran calls out for his dad, his dad turned around and looked for someone.

Theres a theory that Bran went back in time and talked to the Mad King which is the reason the Mad King went crazy.

[Tapate50]

if you notice during the Tower of Joy scene after Bran calls out for his dad, his dad turned around and looked for someone.

Theres a theory that Bran went back in time and talked to the Mad King which is the reason the Mad King went crazy.

Why couldn't the Raven have done that?

[jpx7]

Just a gigantic upturn in quality this season. I feel like—finally unburdened by not having to think about waiting on George Argh-Argh Martin anymore—the writers have become disinterested in stalling, and instead going full tilt into their narrative.

[chop2chip]

Just a gigantic upturn in quality this season. I feel like—finally unburdened by not having to think about waiting on George Argh-Argh Martin anymore—the writers have become disinterested in stalling, and instead going full tilt into their narrative.

Completely agree. I've also thought that the Benioff and Weiss have done a great job with show only ideas (presumably). I thought that they had struggled with this in the past (dorne cough cough), but I have really liked every plot this season.

[Dalyn]

Yes, the final scene was fantastic, but my favorite part of the episode was the Sansa and Jon reunion. And I felt like when Sansa asked for forgiveness, it was for so much more than how she treated Jon. He forgave her for everyone watching, I think. Such a great acting job, too. You could see the burden lifted, and suddenly she was fierce...all Stark. It was wonderful.

[50PoundHead]

I'm not a big fan of the Tyrion is a secret Targaryen theory.

Honestly, the Targaryen's are despicable people. I would hope the book wouldn't feel the need to prop the three most likeable characters to owing all of their abilities to a surname.

The only non-despicables in the narrative--at least to me--are the Starks.

I quit reading the books about 3/4 of the way through A Feast for Crows. Just too many diversions for me.

My favorite part of last night's episode was Theon's return to the Iron Islands.

[bravesnumberone]

The scene with Tormund lusting after Brienne was comic gold. Really a fantastic episode. Filled with women telling men to quit being a bitch and get the job done.

http://static2.techinsider.io/image/573937779105844d018c300a-1440-720/screen%20shot%202016-05-15%20at%2010.51.25%20pm.png

[thewupk]

The only non-despicables in the narrative--at least to me--are the Starks.

I quit reading the books about 3/4 of the way through A Feast for Crows. Just too many diversions for me.

My favorite part of last night's episode was Theon's return to the Iron Islands.

Which is fitting with the starks because presumably the final bad guy (the white walker king) is a stark

[jpx7]

****kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[Krgrecw]

****kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk


Didn't see that coming.

[jpx7]

Didn't see that coming.

It was also just a really tightly-wound episode is a very tightly-wound season. I'd missed riveting seasons of this show—and episodes that could be surprising without relying on the sudden-death of major characters.

Also loved the whole Iron Islands sequence this week.

[thewupk]

man....good episode

[TURBO]

Teared up. One of my favorite characters. He really got screwed over.

[bravesnumberone]

****in Bran.

[weso1]

This show has been awesome since the beginning, but they have really taken it up a notch this season. Loved where they took the story line of the dude with the scaly disease.

[Dalyn]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/r8htepvgyrfo8mof3vpo.GIF

[Krgrecw]

Good episode. Sets up for the upcoming episodes

[Temo]

Just a gigantic upturn in quality this season. I feel like—finally unburdened by not having to think about waiting on George Argh-Argh Martin anymore—the writers have become disinterested in stalling, and instead going full tilt into their narrative.

I don't remember you being so wrong, damn.

This season has been up in action but down in content and nuance.

[bravos4evr]

yeah, but this seasons seems like a transitional one (at least so far) it's here to set us up for the big 2 seasons finale where the big wars of westeros come to a head.


or something

[jpx7]

I don't remember you being so wrong, damn.

This season has been up in action but down in content and nuance.

We're obviously watching this show from disparate angles.

[Temo]

We're obviously watching this show from disparate angles.

You need to come over here and see it from the right angle.

[Temo]

We're obviously watching this show from disparate angles.

Just to elaborate, though...

I really think GRRM wrote his story is a sneakily non-narrative format. By that I mean, he went for hyper realism (strange to say for a fantasy epic, but there it is) in the story over having a linear story. He doesn't go from Protagonist -> Antagonist -> conflict -> resolution. I'm not even really sure who the protagonists or the antagonists are.

In the books, he's constantly killing some characters, and introducing new characters, alternately narrowing the story and expanding the story. Thus, for every claimant to the throne he kills (Stannis, Robb, Balon, etc) he introduces new ones (Victarion, Euron, Griff, and so on).

I find this to be enjoyably true to life, even as it may make for a terrible narrative in many ways. Lots of people find fault with the books because of this, but I revel in it.

Anyway, the show appears to be going into a more conventionally enjoyable narrative format. And I personally don't find it nearly as interesting.

[jpx7]

Just to elaborate, though...

I really think GRRM wrote his story is a sneakily non-narrative format. By that I mean, he went for hyper realism (strange to say for a fantasy epic, but there it is) in the story over having a linear story. He doesn't go from Protagonist -> Antagonist -> conflict -> resolution. I'm not even really sure who the protagonists or the antagonists are.

In the books, he's constantly killing some characters, and introducing new characters, alternately narrowing the story and expanding the story. Thus, for every claimant to the throne he kills (Stannis, Robb, Balon, etc) he introduces new ones (Victarion, Euron, Griff, and so on).

I find this to be enjoyably true to life, even as it may make for a terrible narrative in many ways. Lots of people find fault with the books because of this, but I revel in it.

Anyway, the show appears to be going into a more conventionally enjoyable narrative format. And I personally don't find it nearly as interesting.

I have not read past the first two-hundred pages of the first book. I've tried thrice to get into the books—and what you say about Martin's skill at narrative (and, specifically, less conventional narrative structures for the fantasy novel-cycle) are exactly the reason why—but, honestly, I found his writing at the sentence level to be somewhat boring, or at least unable to snatch and hold my attention. (To be clear: I'm not denigrating Martin here, simply speaking of personal taste. And I have enough on my to-read shelf that I wasn't willing to force the issue with A Song of Ice and Fire.)

However I'm not sure, even if I'd read the books, that I'd expect the same things out of the show. And I'm ok with that. I watch Game of Thrones for fun; it's a good show, but I don't hold it in the same regard as, say, The Wire or (to cite another tv adaptation of a book) the 1981 Brideshead Revisited. And, as such, I think the show's at its best—on the terms it's set out for itself—when it establishes good pace and moves characters to new places, new problems, new intersections, rather than dwelling too much in details (which doesn't always make for good television) or lingering too long in the middle of plots (always teasing a coming-to-head). There are exceptions—for instance, I thought the Arya/Hound awkward-buddy arc really buoyed the show for a few seasons, even though they didn't "do" much—but in general the show is a creature of its medium, and it's simply not going to be able to do the same things as its source material.

Put it another way: the show is called Game of Thrones (not A Song of Ice and Fire[), and you want to see the game being played, the wheels in motion, the pieces shift across the board. Martin's already provided a robust enough world of people and places, and a world of events that defies (or at least initially defied, before we got wise) viewer expectations, that I think there's plenty of content there—even if the focus on activity leaves us to parse or infer the interior lives of some of the characters (and, indeed, I think the show does a good job using subtle choices to express interior states, succeeding by not resorting to lengthy scenes of exposition).

Regarding this season in particular, I've loved several trends that transcend mere action, but also arise from the increased focus on action. Sansa's emergence as a badass, resolute to lead her house and seek vengeance for it. The spark of movement, finally, in the Iron Islands, after Balon's crusty, jaundiced inertia was swept out to sea. Bran's being forced back out into the world—a good example, I think, of the show mirroring Martin's obstinate resistance to giving us what we want, and what convention dictates, opting instead for a frustration of narrative tropes (what you're calling his hyper-realism), not allowing Bran his novice-to-master training-montage (even Rocky had a montage), not providing more of those Children of the Forest details I desperately wanted, not devoting more time to exploring the previous Three-Eyed Raven (and damn: Max von Sydow, we barely got to see you). I'm also really glad that, as of last week, a girl finds herself again, as I thought a girl's Braavos scenes were the only drag so far on this season.

But ultimately—and I've probably elaborated a little too much—I'm firstly not coming to Game of Thrones as a reader of A Song of Ice and Fire, and secondly I think the show can/should/must do things differently than the books, not just with respect to details of the story, but more fundamentally in how it presents and relates its stories.

[50PoundHead]

I have not read past the first two-hundred pages of the first book. I've tried thrice to get into the books—and what you say about Martin's skill at narrative (and, specifically, less conventional narrative structures for the fantasy novel-cycle) are exactly the reason why—but, honestly, I found his writing at the sentence level to be somewhat boring, or at least unable to snatch and hold my attention. (To be clear: I'm not denigrating Martin here, simply speaking of personal taste. And I have enough on my to-read shelf that I wasn't willing to force the issue with A Song of Ice and Fire.)

However I'm not sure, even if I'd read the books, that I'd expect the same things out of the show. And I'm ok with that. I watch Game of Thrones for fun; it's a good show, but I don't hold it in the same regard as, say, The Wire or (to cite another tv adaptation of a book) the 1981 Brideshead Revisited. And, as such, I think the show's at its best—on the terms it's set out for itself—when it establishes good pace and moves characters to new places, new problems, new intersections, rather than dwelling too much in details (which doesn't always make for good television) or lingering too long in the middle of plots (always teasing a coming-to-head). There are exceptions—for instance, I thought the Arya/Hound awkward-buddy arc really buoyed the show for a few seasons, even though they didn't "do" much—but in general the show is a creature of its medium, and it's simply not going to be able to do the same things as its source material.

Put it another way: the show is called Game of Thrones (not A Song of Ice and Fire[), and you want to see the game being played, the wheels in motion, the pieces shift across the board. Martin's already provided a robust enough world of people and places, and a world of events that defies (or at least initially defied, before we got wise) viewer expectations, that I think there's plenty of content there—even if the focus on activity leaves us to parse or infer the interior lives of some of the characters (and, indeed, I think the show does a good job using subtle choices to express interior states, succeeding by not resorting to lengthy scenes of exposition).

Regarding this season in particular, I've loved several trends that transcend mere action, but also arise from the increased focus on action. Sansa's emergence as a badass, resolute to lead her house and seek vengeance for it. The spark of movement, finally, in the Iron Islands, after Balon's crusty, jaundiced inertia was swept out to sea. Bran's being forced back out into the world—a good example, I think, of the show mirroring Martin's obstinate resistance to giving us what we want, and what convention dictates, opting instead for a frustration of narrative tropes (what you're calling his hyper-realism), not allowing Bran his novice-to-master training-montage (even Rocky had a montage), not providing more of those Children of the Forest details I desperately wanted, not devoting more time to exploring the previous Three-Eyed Raven (and damn: Max von Sydow, we barely got to see you). I'm also really glad that, as of last week, a girl finds herself again, as I thought a girl's Braavos scenes were the only drag so far on this season.

But ultimately—and I've probably elaborated a little too much—I'm firstly not coming to Game of Thrones as a reader of A Song of Ice and Fire, and secondly I think the show can/should/must do things differently than the books, not just with respect to details of the story, but more fundamentally in how it presents and relates its stories.

I made it midway through Book 4 (A Feast for Crows) when the entire universe collapsed of its own weight for me. I laud all who can continue. There's a bit of Tolkien in Martin (a very little bit) in that there are characters introduced that one thinks will be important only to not be thus. If a series were modeled on the books, it would be a 3,000 episode series.

Where I do admire Martin is that he isn't set in a static hero/villain archetypes for characters. The Starks are basically good, but capable of bad. The Lannisters are generally bad, but capable of good. And so on and so on. I vacillate on whether Martin is a cynic or cold-hearted realist.

[Temo]

I have not read past the first two-hundred pages of the first book. I've tried thrice to get into the books—and what you say about Martin's skill at narrative (and, specifically, less conventional narrative structures for the fantasy novel-cycle) are exactly the reason why—but, honestly, I found his writing at the sentence level to be somewhat boring, or at least unable to snatch and hold my attention. (To be clear: I'm not denigrating Martin here, simply speaking of personal taste. And I have enough on my to-read shelf that I wasn't willing to force the issue with A Song of Ice and Fire.)

However I'm not sure, even if I'd read the books, that I'd expect the same things out of the show. And I'm ok with that. I watch Game of Thrones for fun; it's a good show, but I don't hold it in the same regard as, say, The Wire or (to cite another tv adaptation of a book) the 1981 Brideshead Revisited. And, as such, I think the show's at its best—on the terms it's set out for itself—when it establishes good pace and moves characters to new places, new problems, new intersections, rather than dwelling too much in details (which doesn't always make for good television) or lingering too long in the middle of plots (always teasing a coming-to-head). There are exceptions—for instance, I thought the Arya/Hound awkward-buddy arc really buoyed the show for a few seasons, even though they didn't "do" much—but in general the show is a creature of its medium, and it's simply not going to be able to do the same things as its source material.

Put it another way: the show is called Game of Thrones (not A Song of Ice and Fire[), and you want to see the game being played, the wheels in motion, the pieces shift across the board. Martin's already provided a robust enough world of people and places, and a world of events that defies (or at least initially defied, before we got wise) viewer expectations, that I think there's plenty of content there—even if the focus on activity leaves us to parse or infer the interior lives of some of the characters (and, indeed, I think the show does a good job using subtle choices to express interior states, succeeding by not resorting to lengthy scenes of exposition).

Regarding this season in particular, I've loved several trends that transcend mere action, but also arise from the increased focus on action. Sansa's emergence as a badass, resolute to lead her house and seek vengeance for it. The spark of movement, finally, in the Iron Islands, after Balon's crusty, jaundiced inertia was swept out to sea. Bran's being forced back out into the world—a good example, I think, of the show mirroring Martin's obstinate resistance to giving us what we want, and what convention dictates, opting instead for a frustration of narrative tropes (what you're calling his hyper-realism), not allowing Bran his novice-to-master training-montage (even Rocky had a montage), not providing more of those Children of the Forest details I desperately wanted, not devoting more time to exploring the previous Three-Eyed Raven (and damn: Max von Sydow, we barely got to see you). I'm also really glad that, as of last week, a girl finds herself again, as I thought a girl's Braavos scenes were the only drag so far on this season.

But ultimately—and I've probably elaborated a little too much—I'm firstly not coming to Game of Thrones as a reader of A Song of Ice and Fire, and secondly I think the show can/should/must do things differently than the books, not just with respect to details of the story, but more fundamentally in how it presents and relates its stories.

Some quick hits here, I'm not going to try to be super organized with this:

- Your point about sentence structure is interesting; I've heard from many people (like 50Pound above) who are put off by the spiraling details of the work ("collapsing in on itself" is a good way of putting it, to quote 50Pound). But I've never heard that the writing itself lacked readability. And I know you're a fairly literate guy, from what I remember.

- The Wire is an interesting comparison. I think that show was excellent in showing the world through the lens of systems analysis. It blurs protagonists and antagonists, it shows how every action has an effect on every other "node" within the system and beautifully narrates the interesting human stories that arise from that kind of "loopy" causation. I think it's fair to say that Game of Thrones (the books) attempts to do the same thing in a different setting but fails to do it as well as The Wire did-- of course, comparing it to possibly the best TV show of all time is a tough comparison. The show, in my estimation, has thus far decided to do away this type of effort altogether.

- I do love the immense amount of detail in Martin's world. Both narratively and the scenes he paints. I like that he describes what people are eating and how it's prepared. That he always mentions the climate of the various lands. That he painstakingly describes every house's heraldry to the last stitch. I can understand if that's a bit much for most people. Where it does matter however is when he deals with things like the problem with foreign rulers, like he did for a looooong time with Dany in Meereen. As Martin himself complain about Tolkien:


Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

Martin also spoke about Tolkien’s treatment of war:

The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.

- Honestly, a lot of what the show is diminishing/rejecting/ignoring from the books right now IS the really intense Game-playing aspects of the story. They're opting instead to just tidily set people in motion to go to places and resolve things, rather than schemes building on schemes and schemes being effected by and changed by other character's schemes. (Dorne, especially, suffers from this)

- Maybe I just miss the books and this being the first season not originating from book material really annoys me.

[Temo]

I made it midway through Book 4 (A Feast for Crows) when the entire universe collapsed of its own weight for me. I laud all who can continue. There's a bit of Tolkien in Martin (a very little bit) in that there are characters introduced that one thinks will be important only to not be thus. If a series were modeled on the books, it would be a 3,000 episode series.

Where I do admire Martin is that he isn't set in a static hero/villain archetypes for characters. The Starks are basically good, but capable of bad. The Lannisters are generally bad, but capable of good. And so on and so on. I vacillate on whether Martin is a cynic or cold-hearted realist.

Yea, read above for that Martin quote on Tolkien. I decided I liked the guy a lot when I read that.

And everytime he introduces a new character (like Griff, if you've read that far into it), I have to say I groan as much as the next guy but I appreciate him for it anyway. I might just be a masochist.

[chop2chip]

- Honestly, a lot of what the show is diminishing/rejecting/ignoring from the books right now IS the really intense Game-playing aspects of the story. They're opting instead to just tidily set people in motion to go to places and resolve things, rather than schemes building on schemes and schemes being effected by and changed by other character's schemes. (Dorne, especially, suffers from this)

I'm not entirely sure if the show has diminished scheme building.. There are some plot lines (e.g. Tyrion's) that seem like they are going to have adverse affects. There just isn't enough time (23 episodes as of the beginning of season 6) to continue developing new schemes. At some point, even GRRM is going to have to bring his story to resolution at which point his narrative structure will have to shift from scheming (unless he wants to leave a lot open plot threads, which is entirely possible I guess).

The "problem" with the show is that the War of the Five Kings is over and there simply isn't enough time to replant the seeds of the next war that isn't the war of Ice and Fire (Young Griff, Dorne, Stannis in the North etc.). Personally, I'm very happy about that because as a book reader I have already accepted that the show is going to show me how the story ultimately ends, but I'm still going to have all of this untouched book territory that will ultimately explain everything in greater detail (and likely very different and better detail) of how that end came to be.

[Temo]

I'm not entirely sure if the show has diminished scheme building.. There are some plot lines (e.g. Tyrion's) that seem like they are going to have adverse affects. There just isn't enough time (23 episodes as of the beginning of season 6) to continue developing new schemes. At some point, even GRRM is going to have to bring his story to resolution at which point his narrative structure will have to shift from scheming (unless he wants to leave a lot open plot threads, which is entirely possible I guess).

The "problem" with the show is that the War of the Five Kings is over and there simply isn't enough time to replant the seeds of the next war that isn't the war of Ice and Fire (Young Griff, Dorne, Stannis in the North etc.). Personally, I'm very happy about that because as a book reader I have already accepted that the show is going to show me how the story ultimately ends, but I'm still going to have all of this untouched book territory that will ultimately explain everything in greater detail (and likely very different and better detail) of how that end came to be.

That's fair, actually. I'll just have to separate the books and the show I suppose. But I used to think the show was at least as good, if not better than the books. No longer.

[bravesnumberone]

Last three episodes are probably gonna be insane. They seem to be hinting hard at the arrival of another major character.

[Krgrecw]

Last three episodes are probably gonna be insane. They seem to be hinting hard at the arrival of another major character.


Who do you think? Send me a PM with the name if you don't want to post it.

[bravesnumberone]

Who do you think? Send me a PM with the name if you don't want to post it.

Stoneheart?

[Tapate50]

Stoneheart?

There was a reference to the brotherhood without banners last week. Quite possible... That would be hard to leave out but up til now they seemed to have lost that arc. I do like the blackfish getting back into the program.

[BlackwaterPark]

There was a reference to the brotherhood without banners last week. Quite possible... That would be hard to leave out but up til now they seemed to have lost that arc. I do like the blackfish getting back into the program.

I really don't know where they are going to go with the Blackfish/Lannister feud out of nowhere.

[Tapate50]

I really don't know where they are going to go with the Blackfish/Lannister feud out of nowhere.

The Vale should be getting its hands dirty at some point in that I'd imagine

[50PoundHead]

The Hound--my favorite character--returns!

[acesfull86]

I watched all 57 episodes in a span of 15 days. Going to be brutal to wait a week for the next one (not to mention 9-12 months for the next season!)

[BlackwaterPark]

I watched all 57 episodes in a span of 15 days. Going to be brutal to wait a week for the next one (not to mention 9-12 months for the next season!)

See, I hate doing this with a show like Game of Thrones. I feel after watching so much, you start to lose focus, and miss things. I guarantee, rewatch it again, and you will pick up a ton of things.

[acesfull86]

Yeah at some point in the future I'll end up watching the series again

[chop2chip]

I watched all 57 episodes in a span of 15 days. Going to be brutal to wait a week for the next one (not to mention 9-12 months for the next season!)

Read the books. That will get you through 9 months and it's a fun way to experience the same universe in an entirely different way.

[thewupk]

Stoneheart?

Yeah they have name dropped and now shown the Brotherhood Without Banners two weeks in a row. They have also shown Katelyn dieing in Branns vision plus mentioned her a few times in the scenes with Frey and Blackfish. Subtle reminders of who she is.

[Tapate50]

They haven't shown Gendry in quite some time either... shouldn't he be showing back up?

So glad the Hound is back!

[Dalyn]

Stoneheart?

Some strong hints and everyone is in place, including Brienne in the preview for the next episode.

[TURBO]

Some strong hints and everyone is in place, including Brienne in the preview for the next episode.

Agreed. I remember us talking about her a season or 2 ago. Had given up on her.

[Dalyn]

Agreed. I remember us talking about her a season or 2 ago. Had given up on her.

Me too. Feels a little late now, but whatever.

[BlackwaterPark]

Me too. Feels a little late now, but whatever.

No way..if they did her first, Jon's wouldn't have been as dramatic. This way, both have drama.

[bravesnumberone]

Idk if it'll happen this week, but it could be the season-ending cliffhanger I suppose.

[BlackwaterPark]

Idk if it'll happen this week, but it could be the season-ending cliffhanger I suppose.

Yep, that would be THE only time to do it IMO. Just like it was in the book.

[Dalyn]

No way..if they did her first, Jon's wouldn't have been as dramatic. This way, both have drama.

Either way, one is less dramatic. But yeah...

[Tapate50]

I don't think Stoneheart should be introduced that quickly. I really don't want to see a full season of a half decomposed old Stark woman walking round all PO'd.

[Dalyn]

I don't think Stoneheart should be introduced that quickly. I really don't want to see a full season of a half decomposed old Stark woman walking round all PO'd.

Season is already almost over.

[bravesnumberone]

Seems like this will finally be the episode the King's Landing/High Sparrow arc comes to a head. Episode 9 of a season is typically when it really goes down. Will we see Snow v. Bolton in that one?

I'm thinking the season ends with one of, all or some combination of these three things:

* Stoneheart shows up.
* The White Walkers breach the wall.
* Khaleesi finally sets sail for Westeros.

[Dalyn]

Seems like this will finally be the episode the King's Landing/High Sparrow arc comes to a head. Episode 9 of a season is typically when it really goes down. Will we see Snow v. Bolton in that one?

I'm thinking the season ends with one of, all or some combination of these three things:

* Stoneheart shows up.
* The White Walkers breach the wall.
* Khaleesi finally sets sail for Westeros.

All three, probably.

[Tapate50]

Seems like this will finally be the episode the King's Landing/High Sparrow arc comes to a head. Episode 9 of a season is typically when it really goes down. Will we see Snow v. Bolton in that one?

I'm thinking the season ends with one of, all or some combination of these three things:

* Stoneheart shows up.
* The White Walkers breach the wall.
* Khaleesi finally sets sail for Westeros.

At the rate they are knocking stuff out, yeah I'd say so.

[Tapate50]

Season is already almost over.

Plus next.

[Tapate50]

Gonna finally see the Hound vs the Mountain?

Trial by combat and Hound fights for the Church?

[jpx7]

I don't think Stoneheart should be introduced that quickly. I really don't want to see a full season of a half decomposed old Stark woman walking round all PO'd.

I'd watch a show that was just that.

[Dalyn]

I'd watch a show that was just that.

Yep.

Part of me wonders if they are going to replace WHO is Lady Stoneheart. Would be an...interesting twist to make it Sansa.

[bravesnumberone]

Part of me feels like they've been telegraphing Sansa's death so that sounds plausible.

[jpx7]

Yep.

Part of me wonders if they are going to replace WHO is Lady Stoneheart. Would be an...interesting twist to make it Sansa.

I sort of hope not; one of my favorite threads recently has been Sansa's bumpy progression into badass.

[Dalyn]

I sort of hope not; one of my favorite threads recently has been Sansa's bumpy progression into badass.

She is fantastic right now. It's great.

[Tapate50]

I sort of hope not; one of my favorite threads recently has been Sansa's bumpy progression into badass.

I think being married consecutively to Tyrion and Ramsey will do that to anyone.

[Dalyn]

I think being married consecutively to Tyrion and Ramsey will do that to anyone.

After almost marrying Joffrey. Yikes.

[Tapate50]

After almost marrying Joffrey. Yikes.

All he did was lop her dads head off and display it for her. I mean... no biggie.

[Dalyn]

All he did was lop her dads head off and display it for her. I mean... no biggie.

A true romantic.

http://www.oystermag.com/sites/default/files/joffrey-shrug.gif

[Tapate50]

By the way, no one bringing up Uncle BenJen showed back up? Lawdy.

[Tapate50]

I'd say Lady SH is coming back for sure and it's gonna be bad to the bone after reading this....

http://io9.gizmodo.com/there-was-secret-book-character-hidden-in-last-weeks-ga-1781754206?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=fridayPM