View Full Version : Fast food workers go on strike
Teheran_49
08-30-2013, 06:16 AM
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/07/29/fast-food-workers-launch-7-city-strike/
Do these idiots realize that if minimum wage goes up then the price of everything else goes up? So regardless if minimum wage is doubled everything else in this country will double. It's amazing how much of a free loading country this place has become it makes me sick. If these people want a better job then they are out there but you do have to actually work in life to achieve that. I do understand that working at a McDonalds during lunch could be pretty hectic for these workers but it is what you signed up for right? You wonder why so many jobs are being outsourced or given to illegals.
Now I live in a small town in middle GA and most of the people that work at these fast food places are people that do drugs and fast food places don't drug test. Now I'm not saying all of the people that work there do drugs because that's simply not true and I also know that most of the people that work at the high end fast food restraunts such as Zaxby's and Chik-fil-a get paid more than someone who works at McDonalds. Also, a majority of the young people that do work at Zaxby's and Chik-fil-a are also in school. Honestly if McDonalds,burger king,wendy;s etc. shut down I wouldn't miss it it at all because I rarely visit those places anyway and when I do go to fast food it's usually Zaxby's,Chik-fil-a or Captain D's and all three are on more of the pricier side as well. I just find it hilarious that they want to go on strike yet you knew what you were signing up for.
thethe
08-30-2013, 06:19 AM
Its absolutely ridiculous. These people eff up their whole lives to get a dead end job like this and now they want us to bail them out for their own stupidity. They are complaining you can't raise a family with a mcdonalds salary. NO **** YOU CAN'T. You shouldn't have a family if all you can get is a mcdonalds job. Amazing how ridiculous people are.
Runnin
08-30-2013, 07:16 AM
With the fast food industry being so huge, it can't run without most of its workforce working full-time. Of course they should be paid more.
On the other hand, the quality of service has to get better too.
thethe
08-30-2013, 07:21 AM
Thats absurd. These people have done NOTHING to improve their lives. Its a joke that their wages are going to get pushed off on us. They do not deserve to get paid 15 dollars an hour.
goldfly
08-30-2013, 07:28 AM
good luck to them
an industry i have given up on using cause it is ****ty food that is horrible for you
i don't care what happens to that market
if they can get ore money, so be it
if they get fired, so be it
can't for the life of me figure out who cares about this other than the fat people who will maybe have to pay more for the ****ty food they eat everyday
AerchAngel
08-30-2013, 07:33 AM
good luck to them
an industry i have given up on using cause it is ****ty food that is horrible for you
i don't care what happens to that market
if they can get ore money, so be it
if they get fired, so be it
can't for the life of me figure out who cares about this other than the fat people who will maybe have to pay more for the ****ty food they eat everyday
Awesome post and dead on.
AerchAngel
08-30-2013, 07:35 AM
With the fast food industry being so huge, it can't run without most of its workforce working full-time. Of course they should be paid more.
On the other hand, the quality of service has to get better too.
instead of the dollar menu, it would be the 2 or 3 dollar menu and business will PLUMMET. No sweat off my back since I won't eat that shi**ty ass food in the first place. It would put unemployment in the stratosphere though if they get their way and they shut down. I wonder if food stamps and welfare is better than working at fast food joints.......wait....never mind, don't want them getting ideas.
Runnin
08-30-2013, 08:58 AM
instead of the dollar menu, it would be the 2 or 3 dollar menu and business will PLUMMET.
Everyone assumes that executive wages can't be adjusted as well.
I agree that anyone who eats that crap is crazy. It's nothing but grease and sugar. I can get cheaper and much healthier food in a Japanese convenience store and not have to wait.
Runnin
08-30-2013, 09:02 AM
Thats absurd. These people have done NOTHING to improve their lives. Its a joke that their wages are going to get pushed off on us. They do not deserve to get paid 15 dollars an hour.
You're painting with a rather large brush. Holding down a job is usually part of improving your life. For some working at McDonalds is a step up.
Wait wait wait...
So I am a worker at McDonalds. My company makes billions of dollars in profit every year. I am making $7.25/hour. I decide that I would like to be paid more. I speak to my fellow employees and they agree. We go on strike, essentially saying that we would rather not work there than be paid the money we're being paid.
What is the problem? This is FREE ****ING MARKET CAPITALISM! I have something McDonald's wants (labor). They have something I want (money). I am using my leverage to get what I want from them, in exchange for giving them what I have.
If McDonald's has an alternative, they should pursue that. If they don't, then we will likely be striking a deal. THIS IS BUSINESS.
Thats absurd. These people have done NOTHING to improve their lives. Its a joke that their wages are going to get pushed off on us. They do not deserve to get paid 15 dollars an hour.
Who are you to say what someone "deserves" to get paid? I thought you were a free market capitalist.
AerchAngel
08-30-2013, 09:50 AM
Wait wait wait...
So I am a worker at McDonalds. My company makes billions of dollars in profit every year. I am making $7.25/hour. I decide that I would like to be paid more. I speak to my fellow employees and they agree. We go on strike, essentially saying that we would rather not work there than be paid the money we're being paid.
What is the problem? This is FREE ****ING MARKET CAPITALISM! I have something McDonald's wants (labor). They have something I want (money). I am using my leverage to get what I want from them, in exchange for giving them what I have.
If McDonald's has an alternative, they should pursue that. If they don't, then we will likely be striking a deal. THIS IS BUSINESS.
They aren't getting their way. If one restaurant do it than all will and costs will go up. A lot of fat people and those who are poor are going to be pissed. The executives made their money. They can fold up shop while those workers will have no place to work.
And why should they give up their bottomline, it's their business and run it like they want? Like my boss said about our owner if you don't like the wages go elsewhere and people have but only to come back and beg to get their position back knowing he pays the same as everyone else - doesn't work.
The minimum-wage should be increased, and not merely for fast-food workers.
50PoundHead
08-30-2013, 10:15 AM
The minimum-wage should be increased, and not merely for fast-food workers.
Anyone who doesn't think the minimum wage should be increased hasn't worked for the minimum wage (at least for an extensive period of time).
Love goldfly's post. I rarely eat fast food anymore. Usually just on road trips. For those fatties who are going to be pushed to the limit because of a hike in the wages at King Wendy McDonald's, a salad bag and a bottle of low-fat dressing costs less than what you drop on a meal in those joints.
The national minimum wage should actually be abolished.
It's so typically and irresponsibly American to believe that universally higher wages are going to result in a better quality of living.
The Scandinavian model of 'labor on demand' is fun to consider as an alternative, although highly unlikely to ever work here.
Julio3000
08-30-2013, 11:40 AM
Thats absurd. These people have done NOTHING to improve their lives. Its a joke that their wages are going to get pushed off on us. They do not deserve to get paid 15 dollars an hour.
How do you know?
The Scandinavian model of [pretty much anything] is fun to consider as an alternative, although highly unlikely to ever work here.
You could probably just amend your statement to that.
You could probably just amend your statement to that.
In all fairness, the Germans also use it ... but are considering adopting a 'wage floor' determined by unions, not politics.
AerchAngel
08-30-2013, 12:27 PM
The minimum-wage should be increased, and not merely for fast-food workers.
It will as with price of eating and purchasing, so you are still back to square one. Companies are going to keep their bottom-line so prices will reflect the increase in wages. And like any capitalist country if you don't like the price increase go elsewhere to by your stuff.
If I am not mistaken only a few countries on this Earth have minimum wages yet we cry the most about it and yet have the power to choose where we spend our money.
AerchAngel
08-30-2013, 12:28 PM
Everyone assumes that executive wages can't be adjusted as well.
I agree that anyone who eats that crap is crazy. It's nothing but grease and sugar. I can get cheaper and much healthier food in a Japanese convenience store and not have to wait.
A owner of a business can do what he want under the guidelines of Federal law. He/She do not have to give into the whims of its workers as they can go work somewhere else if they don't like. The low pay jobs are easy to find and replace.
Julio3000
08-30-2013, 12:37 PM
It will as with price of eating and purchasing, so you are still back to square one. Companies are going to keep their bottom-line so prices will reflect the increase in wages. And like any capitalist country if you don't like the price increase go elsewhere to by your stuff.
If I am not mistaken only a few countries on this Earth have minimum wages yet we cry the most about it and yet have the power to choose where we spend our money.
You are, in fact, mistaken.
AerchAngel
08-30-2013, 01:10 PM
You are, in fact, mistaken.
you are correct. I meant that pay as much.
I knew when I lived overseas some countries didn't have it, I know Germany doesn't and they have a nice quality of life over there without having minimum wages.
Looking at the chart, only a few countries have higher minimum wages and those countries have a higher cost of living as well.
So if we raise minimum wage the cost of living will go up as well, our history has shown this.
weso1
08-30-2013, 01:15 PM
Who are you to say what someone "deserves" to get paid? I thought you were a free market capitalist.
So you are against minimum wage then?
AerchAngel
08-30-2013, 01:19 PM
So you are against minimum wage then?
If am not mistaken, he is for higher minimum wage as well. I think most who in favor would like higher minimum wages without prices going up. Owners are not going to dip in their pocketbooks as they are going to pass on that cost to consumers and if consumers don't like higher prices, they won't shop there, the business will close and more people out of work.
Not only does Germany have a superb standard of living (frankly, echelons above our own) but their general workforce is considered highly qualified. Not to rub salt in a long festering wound, but there's also their 5% unemployment and AAA credit rating. But I digress.
Why should an individual who works in the fast food business be entitled to the same minimum wage as a skilled mechanic or other specifically educated professional? That's inane. That's socialism.
Wages should be controlled by industry demand, negotiated by corporations and unions, with scant government interference/oversight.
AerchAngel
08-30-2013, 01:45 PM
Not only does Germany have a superb standard of living (frankly, echelons above our own) but their general workforce is considered highly qualified. Not to rub salt in a long festering wound, but there's also their 5% unemployment and AAA credit rating. But I digress.
Why should an individual who works in the fast food business be entitled to the same minimum wage as a skilled mechanic or other specifically educated professional? That's inane. That's socialism.
Wages should be controlled by industry demand, negotiated by corporations and unions, with scant government interference/oversight.
Preach on, brother!!
Because of the socialism getting out of hand, they cut some of it out before Greece/Spain happen to them. My eldest was born over there with my first wife. I remembered that she had 18 months after birth of full wages just to stay home with the child. Because of the costs they nerfed that a lot. Lot of socialize stuff that happened in the 80's and 90's when I lived in Europe no longer exists because they couldn't afford it. Now, our president want to follow their previous guide lines. You should see the taxes they pay over there, we have a bargain compared to them.
So you are against minimum wage then?
My feelings on the matter are kinda complex, but what I can't stand is selective enforcement of free market-ism. Either stand by it or don't.
(I largely don't believe in absolute free market capitalism, yet also think the minimum wage is of limited use... go figure)
Like Hawk, I think if you have strong unions, the minimum wage will by and large take care of itself. I'm ok with the concept of a minimum wage to prevent labor abuse, but establishing a very high minimum wage will do more harm than good.
AerchAngel
08-30-2013, 02:59 PM
My feelings on the matter are kinda complex, but what I can't stand is selective enforcement of free market-ism. Either stand by it or don't.
(I largely don't believe in absolute free market capitalism, yet also think the minimum wage is of limited use... go figure)
Like Hawk, I think if you have strong unions, the minimum wage will by and large take care of itself. I'm ok with the concept of a minimum wage to prevent labor abuse, but establishing a very high minimum wage will do more harm than good.
Labor abuse went away a long time ago. Last time I heard, if you don't like work conditions, you really don't have to work there. That is how our society is ran. People think that government owes them a job at their pay request under their work conditions. The real world is not like that. You have a choice in this great nation as the owners have a choice on what to pay you and what not, it is up to each individual to take it or leave it. If you don't want to work for the minimum wage set forth by the company find work elsewhere and good luck with it.
Labor abuse went away a long time ago.
False.
Also: the Hobson's choice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice) you seem to idealize isn't really much of a choice at all.
Julio3000
08-30-2013, 03:46 PM
Labor abuse went away a long time ago.
Hardly.
And yes, if we had Germany's trade unions, co-determination, and German labor law, I'd be content to see direct government interference in labor market be scant. Large German companies are required to have labor representatives on the board of directors—up to 50% of the board under some circumstances.
Julio3000
08-30-2013, 04:03 PM
Preach on, brother!!
Because of the socialism getting out of hand, they cut some of it out before Greece/Spain happen to them. My eldest was born over there with my first wife. I remembered that she had 18 months after birth of full wages just to stay home with the child. Because of the costs they nerfed that a lot. Lot of socialize stuff that happened in the 80's and 90's when I lived in Europe no longer exists because they couldn't afford it. Now, our president want to follow their previous guide lines. You should see the taxes they pay over there, we have a bargain compared to them.
Yeah, they've nerfed the parental leave to something that far exceeds the most feverish aspiration of any American liberal.
Gary82
08-30-2013, 05:10 PM
The national minimum wage should actually be abolished.
Have you met an American corporation? These mother****ers would charge you to work for them if they could.
And yes, if we had Germany's trade unions, co-determination, and German labor law, I'd be content to see direct government interference in labor market be scant. Large German companies are required to have labor representatives on the board of directors—up to 50% of the board under some circumstances.
Haha. Are Americans not determined enough for you? :winking0016:
The literal entirety of German labor law went into place at the end of WWII. About 150 years after ours began piecing itself together. In that sense, it's the most modern in the first world.
Have you met an American corporation? These mother****ers would charge you to work for them if they could.
I agree.
But I can still dream about living in a country that isn't rampantly overrun with socially ignorant, over-entitled, and under-employed twats.
Gary82
08-30-2013, 05:20 PM
I agree.
But I can still dream about living in a country that isn't rampantly overrun with socially ignorant, over-entitled, and under-employed twats.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one....
acesfull86
08-30-2013, 05:25 PM
Anyone who doesn't think the minimum wage should be increased hasn't worked for the minimum wage (at least for an extensive period of time).
The minimum wage is and always has been zero.
acesfull86
08-30-2013, 05:30 PM
good luck to them
an industry i have given up on using cause it is ****ty food that is horrible for you
i don't care what happens to that market
if they can get ore money, so be it
if they get fired, so be it
can't for the life of me figure out who cares about this other than the fat people who will maybe have to pay more for the ****ty food they eat everyday
I agree with you except....if when their efforts fail and then they have NO job instead of A job, these same people will be protesting the gov't to raise unemployment benefits or similar welfare programs that do impact those of us who pay taxes.
Gary82
08-30-2013, 05:30 PM
The minimum wage is and always has been zero.
If it wasn't for my parents, I dont know how the **** I would get by. I've never been paid as low as minimum wage either.
Preach on, brother!!
Because of the socialism getting out of hand, they cut some of it out before Greece/Spain happen to them. My eldest was born over there with my first wife. I remembered that she had 18 months after birth of full wages just to stay home with the child. Because of the costs they nerfed that a lot. Lot of socialize stuff that happened in the 80's and 90's when I lived in Europe no longer exists because they couldn't afford it. Now, our president want to follow their previous guide lines. You should see the taxes they pay over there, we have a bargain compared to them.
Where did you live in Europe?
sturg33
08-30-2013, 06:51 PM
LOL at people thinking the minimum wage is a good thing.
And LMAO at people thinking it should be raised
weso1
08-30-2013, 08:07 PM
My feelings on the matter are kinda complex, but what I can't stand is selective enforcement of free market-ism. Either stand by it or don't.
(I largely don't believe in absolute free market capitalism, yet also think the minimum wage is of limited use... go figure)
Like Hawk, I think if you have strong unions, the minimum wage will by and large take care of itself. I'm ok with the concept of a minimum wage to prevent labor abuse, but establishing a very high minimum wage will do more harm than good.
I don't think these coercive lawyer run unions are truly free market, but neither is today's corporatism.
I don't understand it when you say you don't like selective enforcement of free market economics, but at the same time you essentially say that you yourself believe in selective enforcement of free market.
Glad to see you posting more on here. Always appreciate your opinions. Now we just need a few more conservatives.
AerchAngel
08-31-2013, 07:07 AM
False.
Also: the Hobson's choice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice) you seem to idealize isn't really much of a choice at all.
Is anyone forcing you to work there? Did they put a gun to your head?
Last time I checked there are other jobs if you are too dumb to go to school to work at. Landscaping pays pretty good, pick fruit and vegetables, bust tables, there are many other jobs you can obtain without the need of forcing a company to pay you more than what the job requires with NO EDUCATION.
AerchAngel
08-31-2013, 07:10 AM
Where did you live in Europe?
Primarily England for a few years and Germany a lot of years. I played in the 4th division basketball (you don't get paid much, but this was like a fun part time job) over there for four years by actually being in the right place at the right time. Because of that, I was able to travel to a lot of places and during that time each country required visas until the wall came down.
AerchAngel
08-31-2013, 07:14 AM
My feelings on the matter are kinda complex, but what I can't stand is selective enforcement of free market-ism. Either stand by it or don't.
(I largely don't believe in absolute free market capitalism, yet also think the minimum wage is of limited use... go figure)
Like Hawk, I think if you have strong unions, the minimum wage will by and large take care of itself. I'm ok with the concept of a minimum wage to prevent labor abuse, but establishing a very high minimum wage will do more harm than good.
This article explains your last line to a "T" (http://www.houstonianonline.com/viewpoints/raising-minimum-wage-generates-unemployment-higher-prices-1.2820892#.UiHdkFIo61s)
50PoundHead
08-31-2013, 08:56 AM
Not only does Germany have a superb standard of living (frankly, echelons above our own) but their general workforce is considered highly qualified. Not to rub salt in a long festering wound, but there's also their 5% unemployment and AAA credit rating. But I digress.
Why should an individual who works in the fast food business be entitled to the same minimum wage as a skilled mechanic or other specifically educated professional? That's inane. That's socialism.
Wages should be controlled by industry demand, negotiated by corporations and unions, with scant government interference/oversight.
Find me a mechanic or specifically-educated professional in the country who is now toiling for the minimum wage. I highly doubt there is one. Those individuals work for scale on which there is a minimum, but that minimum exceeds (usually greatly) the legally-prescribed minimum hourly wage.
Find me a mechanic or specifically-educated professional in the country who is now toiling for the minimum wage. I highly doubt there is one. Those individuals work for scale on which there is a minimum, but that minimum exceeds (usually greatly) the legally-prescribed minimum hourly wage.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012tbls.htm#4
Where do you live in the United States?
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 10:02 AM
Some general thoughts about the topic.
I'm not prepared to say that raising the minimum wage wouldn't increase unemployment, but I do think that we're often quick to ignore all of the moving parts in some of these questions, and embrace a simplistic economic model that both supports our preconceptions and elides some of the complexity.
Second, there's just something fundamentally . . . I dunno, ungracious or something, about the way some of y'all are bitching about people who are engaging in activism to try to earn some respect and a living wage. We've spilled a lot of virtual ink in this forum debating public assistance. Y'all don't like welfare. You resent your tax dollars being used for unemployment benefits, or to buy food and diapers for poor families. Fine. So now you're going to bitch about the working poor? People who are doing exactly what, in your estimation, they ought to be doing?
Life doesn't include a guarantee of fairness, but isn't it a valid complaint to point out that today's minimum wage doesn't have the buying power of the minimum wage three and four decades ago, even as productivity and corporate profits have increased? People don't look twice at cost-of-living adjustments for executives and salaried workers. Isn't that something worth getting worked up about, since it means more families in poverty, less able to gain access to the resources necessary to join the middle class?
Conservatives like to get misty-eyed about the greatness of America. Isn't this question at the heart of what that greatness is all about?
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 10:08 AM
I don't think these coercive lawyer run unions are truly free market, but neither is today's corporatism.
I don't understand it when you say you don't like selective enforcement of free market economics, but at the same time you essentially say that you yourself believe in selective enforcement of free market.
Glad to see you posting more on here. Always appreciate your opinions. Now we just need a few more conservatives.
How do you figure?
sturg33
08-31-2013, 10:18 AM
So if I wanted to get some extra cash for the holidays - and I go to Target and want to work. They say "sorry, we can't afford any more workers at $7.25."
I say, that's ok, I'll work for $5.00 cause I really want some extra cash. And they are willing to pay me that, and I'm willing to work for that.
But the government says I'm not allowed to make that agreement. So I don't get that extra cash I want.
It's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 10:36 AM
So if I wanted to get some extra cash for the holidays - and I go to Target and want to work. They say "sorry, we can't afford any more workers at $7.25."
I say, that's ok, I'll work for $5.00 cause I really want some extra cash. And they are willing to pay me that, and I'm willing to work for that.
But the government says I'm not allowed to make that agreement. So I don't get that extra cash I want.
It's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.
Well, perhaps you should avail yourself of the magical free market to find a better situation. Nobody said you had to work at Target. Perhaps you should get a student loan and go back to school.
sturg33
08-31-2013, 10:43 AM
Well, perhaps you should avail yourself of the magical free market to find a better situation. Nobody said you had to work at Target. Perhaps you should get a student loan and go back to school.
In case you couldn't tell... this is a hypothetical.
But it seems that you are completely OK with the situation outlined above. Where a company agrees to pay me something, and I agree to work for it, and the government says "No."
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 10:45 AM
In case you couldn't tell... this is a hypothetical.
But it seems that you are completely OK with the situation outlined above. Where a company agrees to pay me something, and I agree to work for it, and the government says "No."
In case you couldn't tell . . . my answer was facetious.
sturg33
08-31-2013, 10:45 AM
I live in DC. Walmart was going to build a store in DC. It was going to bring hundreds of jobs and finally offer a more affordable shopping place in the ridiculously overprice DC area.
The DC Council came in and said "You can build a store here, but you have to pay all employees no less than $12.00 (maybe $15.00 - don't remember) an hour.
Of course, Walmart says no. Walks away. And the government ensured shutting down a company that would be good for a whole lot of people.
zitothebrave
08-31-2013, 10:51 AM
Walmart is a notorious small business and job killer.
So good job DC council. Less walmarts make for a better America.
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 10:51 AM
In case you couldn't tell... this is a hypothetical.
But it seems that you are completely OK with the situation outlined above. Where a company agrees to pay me something, and I agree to work for it, and the government says "No."
And yes, I'm completely OK with the government having the ability to interfere in an unlawful contract.
Bj1133
08-31-2013, 10:58 AM
The argument that "It's not enough to feed a family" doesn't work for me. If McDonalds is your source of income, then you shouldn't start a family. Personal responsibility is severely lacking in this country.
sturg33
08-31-2013, 10:58 AM
And yes, I'm completely OK with the government having the ability to interfere in an unlawful contract.
But you're ok with that being unlawful?
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 11:44 AM
Pretty much. It's already a race to the bottom. No sense speeding it along.
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 11:53 AM
The argument that "It's not enough to feed a family" doesn't work for me. If McDonalds is your source of income, then you shouldn't start a family. Personal responsibility is severely lacking in this country.
What if you had a better job but lost it? I guess you should have taken personal responsibility for accurately forecasting the global economic trends that led to your getting laid off.
Again, it's crazy to see this vitriol against the working poor. Have you guys had empathectomies or something?
sturg33
08-31-2013, 12:17 PM
Pretty much. It's already a race to the bottom. No sense speeding it along.
So you think that I should not be allowed to work for an agreed upon price that is lower than $7.25.
haha wow
Again, it's crazy to see this vitriol against the working poor. Have you guys had empathectomies or something?
I think a majority of us here are equally as vitriolic toward the 'working' upper and middle classes and the general disparity of wealth in this country. Maybe that's just me.
The solution is not to overfund the underfunded. That's inflationary, and literally the last thing our grade B economy needs.
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 01:10 PM
I think a majority of us here are equally as vitriolic toward the 'working' upper and middle classes and the general disparity of wealth in this country. Maybe that's just me.
The solution is not to overfund the underfunded. That's inflationary, and literally the last thing our grade B economy needs.
Maybe that's just you.
I'm objecting to the vitriol against the poor—which is a standard feature in these parts—not actually opining on the efficacy of a minimum-wage increase.
Maybe that's just you.
I'm objecting to the vitriol against the poor—which is a standard feature in these parts—not actually opining on the efficacy of a minimum-wage increase.
Well, that's noble of you Julio.
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 01:43 PM
Well, that's noble of you Julio.
Just easily annoyed, I think.
AerchAngel
08-31-2013, 01:51 PM
The argument that "It's not enough to feed a family" doesn't work for me. If McDonalds is your source of income, then you shouldn't start a family. Personal responsibility is severely lacking in this country.
BINGO!!!
Don't tell the Libs that, procreate more gives them more votes.
Bj1133
08-31-2013, 01:53 PM
What if you had a better job but lost it? I guess you should have taken personal responsibility for accurately forecasting the global economic trends that led to your getting laid off.
Again, it's crazy to see this vitriol against the working poor. Have you guys had empathectomies or something?
In your scenario above, the move from good job to McDonalds would only be temporary and a 2nd/part time job wouldn't/shouldn't be out of the question.
The personal responsibility jab was aimed at those who have kids/family without having their ducks lined up and then have to rely on others for help or complain about how crappy their lives are now.
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 01:54 PM
BINGO!!!
Don't tell the Libs that, procreate more gives them more votes.
No, I'm afraid you've got it all wrong. Liberals love abortion.
AerchAngel
08-31-2013, 01:56 PM
Maybe that's just you.
I'm objecting to the vitriol against the poor—which is a standard feature in these parts—not actually opining on the efficacy of a minimum-wage increase.
because minimum wage increase will hurt the middle class especially those who's business depends on high school students and what not to survive. What is it good to own a business but only pays you 60k while each of your workers are making 20k. Your expenses in wages exceed your own by 2 and 3 folds, that is not a good business model.
I don't shop at Walmart that often (mainly Target/Menards) but you have to have a store that cater to the bottom feeders for everyday things. I know it hurts the middle class businesses but think about it, if those business have to pay a higher minimum wage, they themselves will go out of business as well.
In the end they aren't going to get their way so all this hubbub is not going to do a darn thing.
AerchAngel
08-31-2013, 01:57 PM
No, I'm afraid you've got it all wrong. Liberals love abortion.
ha ha touché.
But more out of wedlock kids to welfare moms is better business for them.
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 01:57 PM
In your scenario above, the move from good job to McDonalds would only be temporary and a 2nd/part time job wouldn't/shouldn't be out of the question.
The personal responsibility jab was aimed at those who have kids/family without having their ducks lined up and then have to rely on others for help or complain about how crappy their lives are now.
Would it? Seems like there are plenty of qualified and motivated people who are severely underemployed.
As for those who don't have their ducks lined up, why are you so quick to make the assumption that the person making the generic complaint about raising a family is one or the other?
Bj1133
08-31-2013, 02:02 PM
Would it? Seem like there are plenty of qualified and motivated people who are severely underemployed?
As for those who don't have their ducks lined up, why are you so quick to make the assumption that the person making the generic complaint about raising a family is one or the other?
Facebook tells me so
AerchAngel
08-31-2013, 02:05 PM
Would it? Seem like there are plenty of qualified and motivated people who are severely underemployed?
As for those who don't have their ducks lined up, why are you so quick to make the assumption that the person making the generic complaint about raising a family is one or the other?
I like this question.
Now answer it yourself?
I have seen friends lose their jobs to outsourcing and they have masters degrees. They knew they weren't going to get a good job right away and they were looking at foreclosures and some got foreclosed, some didn't. The ones that didn't work two and three jobs, at fast food places.
Humbling yes, but did they complain about the wages, no, because they knew their place. They must tread water before a job that they were qualified for opened.
These people now never were in that position, but want that pay increase now without schooling and without toiling bettering themselves, this is what I have a problem with. WE do not owe them a better minimum wage, if you want higher pay, go to school or find a job, a business shouldn't have to pay you more unless they raise prices and you are back to square one.
Bj1133
08-31-2013, 02:19 PM
I have seen friends lose their jobs to outsourcing and they have masters degrees. They knew they weren't going to get a good job right away and they were looking at foreclosures and some got foreclosed, some didn't. The ones that didn't work two and three jobs, at fast food places.
Humbling yes, but did they complain about the wages, no, because they knew their place. They must tread water before a job that they were qualified for opened.
This is the point I should have made in my last post - these people who are forced to take the fast food jobs after losing their better/higher paying jobs aren't the ones complaining about the pay. They knew the pay was crap/not enough for a family and that's why they had the better job/went to school for a degree.
Julio3000
08-31-2013, 02:25 PM
That's a fair point, although it might underplay the fact that there is quite a lot of long-term underemployment out there.
AerchAngel
08-31-2013, 02:45 PM
That's a fair point, although it might underplay the fact that there is quite a lot of long-term underemployment out there.
Unfortunately this is true.
Sad isn't it.
I can understand your point on mega corporations like McDonalds and others but if you raise the minimum wages, those stores that competes against Walmart will soon go out of business as well if they have to raise prices.
My friend own 3 national chain sub shops and he lives an even smaller house than I and I see them often. I wonder a owner of three sub shops can't afford a nice place he said payroll is high and keeping people is tough, I am barely getting by.
He drives a 2003 Honda accord and just recently bought a Dodge Town and country for his family. I am thinking wow he is worst off than us. I get paid decently as a programmer and my wife business is only catered to 8 clients so we don't get put in the next tax bracket and do okay.
If they raise the minimum wage he probably would have to sell one of his shops or lay off people.
I don't think these coercive lawyer run unions are truly free market, but neither is today's corporatism.
I don't understand it when you say you don't like selective enforcement of free market economics, but at the same time you essentially say that you yourself believe in selective enforcement of free market.
Glad to see you posting more on here. Always appreciate your opinions. Now we just need a few more conservatives.
Oh, well in case I wasn't clear, I am not a free market capitalist. I like a well regulated economy.
The emphasis on well though... minimum wage laws have their use, but they are not the answer.
Gary82
08-31-2013, 03:55 PM
The argument that "It's not enough to feed a family" doesn't work for me. If McDonalds is your source of income, then you shouldn't start a family. Personal responsibility is severely lacking in this country.
You're giving me the impression that you believe that all families are planned. Who are these people that are working at McDonald's thinking, "You know what? It's time to have kids."
As far as personal responsibility...some people...no, all people **** up in their lifetimes. At least they are working. The less these people make at their jobs, the more dependent and reliant they are on the government.
If I have to pay a little more for a ****ty Big Mac, just so Jim-Bob can get by, so be it.
cajunrevenge
08-31-2013, 03:57 PM
A lot of things well run would be great. The problem is the government is not capable of running anything well or efficiently.
Dalyn
08-31-2013, 04:51 PM
No, I'm afraid you've got it all wrong. Liberals love abortion.
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4706623873089725&pid=15.1
Dalyn
08-31-2013, 04:51 PM
A lot of things well run would be great. The problem is the government is not capable of running anything well or efficiently.
This is so true.
50PoundHead
08-31-2013, 05:27 PM
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012tbls.htm#4
Where do you live in the United States?
Nice try, but there's not an ISO-certified mechanic in the United States that is working for the minimum wage.
Nice try, but there's not an ISO-certified mechanic in the United States that is working for the minimum wage.
No offense, but who the heck mentioned anything about an ISO-certified mechanic?
In my original post I said simply 'mechanic' and all of a sudden you are ramping it up to an individual possessive of a rather pricey certification.
Let's try, for example, auto mechanics.
weso1
08-31-2013, 08:37 PM
Oh, well in case I wasn't clear, I am not a free market capitalist. I like a well regulated economy.
The emphasis on well though... minimum wage laws have their use, but they are not the answer.
You said you don't believe in "absolute free market capitalism" which implies that you believe in quasi free market capitalism. Am I correct on that? What's the difference between that and someone who believes in "selective free market capitalism"? I mean... I agree with your view as I myself am a quasi free market capitalist, but your complaint seems a bit hypocritical here.
weso1
08-31-2013, 08:42 PM
How do you figure?
The words coercive and free are like vinegar and oil. I mean these people aren't necessarily getting the union they choose. Temo painted a pretty picture of all these people coming together and singing kumbaya. But in reality it's more like they have to join this union and they're not really sure what they're joining. That's what unions have become. Unions are kind of a business on there own now.
50PoundHead
09-01-2013, 06:11 PM
No offense, but who the heck mentioned anything about an ISO-certified mechanic?
In my original post I said simply 'mechanic' and all of a sudden you are ramping it up to an individual possessive of a rather pricey certification.
Let's try, for example, auto mechanics.
Look at the service portion of the bill the next time you have work done on your car and I can assure you it will exceed the minimum wage. My guess is even the guy at Jiffy Lube or the guy who for the windshield replacement company who comes to your doorstep makes more than the minimum wage.
The Chosen One
09-02-2013, 11:42 PM
As with mostly all things capitalism, if McDonalds hired more workers, that means more people would flock to McDonald's for employment, and eventually the demand for McDonald's jobs would be so high they'd have no choice but to limit it and maybe lower wages.
Then people would flock to being auto mechanics.
Tapate50
09-03-2013, 07:57 AM
As with mostly all things capitalism, if McDonalds hired more workers, that means more people would flock to McDonald's for employment, and eventually the demand for McDonald's jobs would be so high they'd have no choice but to limit it and maybe lower wages.
Then people would flock to being auto mechanics.
And why not. Labor rates for mechanics have gotten pricey. At the dealership 110+hr, and your regular shop more like 100 an hour.
acesfull86
09-08-2013, 10:07 AM
link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/hundreds-protest-against-wal-mart-in-15-cities-demanding-higher-wages/2013/09/05/2203c9f0-15bc-11e3-be6e-dc6ae8a5b3a8_story.html?hpid=z3)
And now the protest hits Wal Mart. Here's a question...why protest the companies that are actually offering these jobs to unskilled/low-skilled workers and not the companies who aren't? In other words, apparently none of the rest of the companies in this country think these workers' skills are worth $15+ an hour, otherwise they would work for them instead of Wal Mart/McDonald's/etc. So why not protest against them too? It's the market that is saying these workers' skills are worth "x" per hour, not just Wal Mart.
These industries aren't here to give all of their employees a "living wage." Simple as that. You go there for 6 months or a year or so, prove to an employer that you're responsible, hard working, etc, and use that experience to move up the chain somewhere else. Get legislators to raise the minimum wage, then these low paying jobs become more scarce, now there is less opportunity for low-skilled workers to gain the experience to make themselves more marketable to future employers. Now what? If these jobs from big box stores and fast foot outlets shrivel up, where are the displaced workers going to end up? Are accounting firms, marketing agencies, tech companies, etc going to open their doors and give them well paying jobs? Don't think so. Then we'll get new protests about how we need to increase welfare spending and unemployment insurance because the economy isn't producing enough jobs to give these workers a living wage. To go along with the protests that American companies are sending jobs overseas (which they are doing to offset their increased labor costs brought on by those very protesters).
zitothebrave
09-08-2013, 10:12 AM
Problem is that I don't know of an employer who values anyone's time at McDonalds or Walmart as valuable experience for an adult.
I don't think they should be paid more personalyl but it's good for them they're standing up for their rights. Unfortunately they'll be undercut by foreign workers so it won't matter.
Gary82
09-08-2013, 12:51 PM
Problem is that I don't know of an employer who values anyone's time at McDonalds or Walmart as valuable experience for an adult.
I don't think they should be paid more personalyl but it's good for them they're standing up for their rights. Unfortunately they'll be undercut by foreign workers so it won't matter.
It depends on where these former fast food and walmart employees are applying to. If it's another ****ty retail (well that's redundant) job, then I'm sure their experience will be considered valuable.
A professional job isn't going to value it, though. I'm going back to school to learn web design, do you think I would put something like McDonald's or Walmart on my resume?
57Brave
09-08-2013, 01:29 PM
Mitch Williams really said that? !!!
acesfull86
09-08-2013, 03:41 PM
It depends on where these former fast food and walmart employees are applying to. If it's another ****ty retail (well that's redundant) job, then I'm sure their experience will be considered valuable.
A professional job isn't going to value it, though. I'm going back to school to learn web design, do you think I would put something like McDonald's or Walmart on my resume?
Everyone's situation is going to be unique, but I think it's better to show you had a job than a gap in employment. If I were reviewing applications and one guy worked a year at McDonald's and the other guy didn't do anything, I'd lean with the one who worked (all things being equal).
Gary82
09-08-2013, 04:09 PM
Everyone's situation is going to be unique, but I think it's better to show you had a job than a gap in employment. If I were reviewing applications and one guy worked a year at McDonald's and the other guy didn't do anything, I'd lean with the one who worked (all things being equal).
I agree with this. Not doing anything at all will hurt your chances at employment, but I gotta be honest, doing volunteer work is probably better for your resume than McDonald's. Of course, back to reality, we all need money!
Here's (http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/article_comments/post_work_zombie_social_democracy_with_a_human_fac e) an interesting article by Andrew Kilman, whose analysis (though I think he misreads, or miscomprehends the context of, the excellent Graeber article (http://tinyurl.com/Graeber-nonswear) he cites) supports Hawk's position that increases in mandated minimum-wage can be unhelpful or unprofitable for the economy-at-large in a nation, but whose ultimate point actually argues for an anti-capital/anti-capitalism posture (to which I am very sympathetic):
The basic flaw in the thinking of Kalecki, Graeber, and the zombie social democrats now, and of the Mitterrand government three decades ago, is political determinism. They think that the capitalists control capitalism––not the other way around––so that the system can become something it’s not once different people with different priorities assume control of it.
I on the other hand think that historical experience and a bit of reflection show that the system has a “logic” of its own, so that what must be replaced is the system itself, not just the current personifications of it. Technological possibilities notwithstanding, there isn’t going to be much progress toward a post-work society, or indeed a lot of other good stuff, until we grapple seriously with the fact that capitalism operates as it does because of its autonomous logic, not because of the specific priorities of those who happen to be running the system at any particular moment. If we don’t deal with this problem head-on, the inspiring post-work vision will simply degenerate into a slogan used by wannabe personifications of capitalism to win support for their efforts to replace the current personifications.
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