DH Coming to the NL?

[Horsehide Harry]

Listening to the pregame radio yesterday, the Braves radio group was discussing the fact that the Tigers felt that they were at a disadvantage having to play in the NL the final series of the season because they lose the DH whereas the teams they are competing against for the last WC are playing in the AL.

That conversation led to discussion about having the DH in both leagues to make it fair and that it very well could happen this offseason. They discussed it like it was a well known possibility in baseball circles. I had not heard that. But I wonder if the DH is going to be a big part of the new agreement with the players and the hosts got their info from someone in the Braves FO.

If that is the case, it could make the Kemp acquisition pure genius. I am often critical of the FO but if they used pre-knowledge to go get a player who would be one of the best DH in the game, I want to be the first to give them credit.

With no offseason changes (other than acquisition of McCann) the line up could be:

CF Inciarte
SS Swanson
1B Freeman
DH Kemp
RF Markakis
3B Garcia
C McCann
LF Mallex
2B Jace/Albies

That line up is still light on power and could use significant upgrades at LF and 3B, but it is not so bad.

[thewupk]

It's certainly possible. I know it's coming at some point but there hasn't really been much talk publicly about it. The big thing I've always read about the players pushing for is an amendment to the service time rules. If they can get the DH too then that would be huge for them.

Still, if the DH is added you would figure the league would give teams a year heads up for roster purposes. With the CBA getting changed at the end of the year that would take out half the offseason and a sudden change would be unfair. If it's added I could see it added the following season.

[Enscheff]

I don't think your idea is that far fetched. We know JS is on the competition committee, so if any FO has insight about the DH coming to the NL it would be the Braves. At that point the acquisitions of Kemp and Mac make tons of sense rather than just being decent moves like they are now.

[msstate7]

Kemp all-the-sudden becomes a very nice piece if it happens.

[CyYoung31]

How is it unfair to the Tigers? They had plenty of AL games to play before this series.

[Horsehide Harry]

How is it unfair to the Tigers? They had plenty of AL games to play before this series.

I don't think it is unfair. Apparently Ausmus was B*tching

[smootness]

How is it unfair to the Tigers? They had plenty of AL games to play before this series.

Right. It's a dumb argument.

[bravesfanforlife88]

I thought I saw in an interview before the season started that they hoped to have the CBA in place before the all star break. Then before the end of the season, now it is pushed back. I wonder whats taking so long.

[bravesfanMatt]

Really. You shouldn't have lost those three games in May and June where you had the advantage. Shut up and play the game. Why do people think these three games are more important than any other three games played this year. What a whiny bitch.

[TheBravos]

Right. It's a dumb argument.

Exactly ...they all played the same amount of NL games. Not only acquiring Kemp, but going for so many high ceiling pitchers would also play into that theory.

[bravesfanMatt]

I thought I saw in an interview before the season started that they hoped to have the CBA in place before the all star break. Then before the end of the season, now it is pushed back. I wonder whats taking so long.

I don't think they can put anything in place until the old one expires. They may have agreed to things. But won't be known until deal is done.

[mfree80]

Listening to the pregame radio yesterday, the Braves radio group was discussing the fact that the Tigers felt that they were at a disadvantage having to play in the NL the final series of the season because they lose the DH whereas the teams they are competing against for the last WC are playing in the AL.

That conversation led to discussion about having the DH in both leagues to make it fair and that it very well could happen this offseason. They discussed it like it was a well known possibility in baseball circles. I had not heard that. But I wonder if the DH is going to be a big part of the new agreement with the players and the hosts got their info from someone in the Braves FO.

If that is the case, it could make the Kemp acquisition pure genius. I am often critical of the FO but if they used pre-knowledge to go get a player who would be one of the best DH in the game, I want to be the first to give them credit.

With no offseason changes (other than acquisition of McCann) the line up could be:

CF Inciarte
SS Swanson
1B Freeman
DH Kemp
RF Markakis
3B Garcia
C McCann
LF Mallex
2B Jace/Albies

That line up is still light on power and could use significant upgrades at LF and 3B, but it is not so bad.

Interesting. My only disagreement is that I see RF as a better opportunity to improve than LF in your lineup. I agree about 3B. Otherwise that would be a fun and exciting team to watch.

[nsacpi]

The chatter is that there might be a DH for all interleague games (including World Series). I don't think we'll see a DH in the NL next year.

I also think the QO system will remain in place for this off-season perhaps with some adjustment in the formula for determining the $ amount of the qualifying offer.

Super 2 will likely also remain in place, perhaps with some adjustment in the cutoff.

[Coach_Chris]

The chatter is that there might be a DH for all interleague games (including World Series). I don't think we'll see a DH in the NL next year.

I also think the QO system will remain in place for this off-season perhaps with some adjustment in the formula for determining the $ amount of the qualifying offer.

Super 2 will likely also remain in place, perhaps with some adjustment in the cutoff.

Then that would put the NL at a disadvantage.

The first rule of baseball is their is 9 on 9 and it mentions nothing about one of those 9 will not hit and the only play the field and another person would just hit.

I think the AL should get rid of the DH when NL teams come to their stadiums.

[clvclv]

I don't think it is unfair. Apparently Ausmus was B*tching

Ausmus didn't come close to *itching about the situation - just another comment without context. I listened to the interview live, and he did nothing of the sort. He was asked about it, and the interviewers were obviously hoping to draw that kind of response. They failed miserably. He said it was an unfortunate situation as it shakes out, but that with five teams in each division not every team gets to play against division rivals down the stretch. He also said that they had plenty of chances to take advantage of the DH in other interleague series and failed on some of those occasions.

[rico43]

I'm sure it's because the Braves pitchers are far superior hitters to the Tigers'.

[VirginiaBrave]

The chatter is that there might be a DH for all interleague games (including World Series). I don't think we'll see a DH in the NL next year.

I also think the QO system will remain in place for this off-season perhaps with some adjustment in the formula for determining the $ amount of the qualifying offer.

Super 2 will likely also remain in place, perhaps with some adjustment in the cutoff.

And that's the rule that should come into being when it is finally settled. That way it leaves the game as it was intended to be played and leaves the game alone for NL fans only like myself. On the other side it takes all the moaning about disadvantages out of play. If it were up to me I would put either Mil back in the AL or return Hou to the NL and eliminate interleague everyday.

[DirkPiggler]

And that's the rule that should come into being when it is finally settled. That way it leaves the game as it was intended to be played and leaves the game alone for NL fans only like myself. On the other side it takes all the moaning about disadvantages out of play. If it were up to me I would put either Mil back in the AL or return Hou to the NL and eliminate interleague everyday.

No, that shouldn't be the end result.

NL teams face a greater disadvantage by playing against AL teams with a DH. AL teams carry a DH full time. NL teams end up using bench players who usually aren't up to par offensively with the AL DH on the other side.

The rule needs to be standardized full time. As a traditionalist I'd prefer to see the DH go away. As a realist, given the power of the MLBPA and the fact that every other level of baseball allows the DH, I suspect that the DH will soon be implemented league-wide.

[VirginiaBrave]

No, that shouldn't be the end result.

NL teams face a greater disadvantage by playing against AL teams with a DH. AL teams carry a DH full time. NL teams end up using bench players who usually aren't up to par offensively with the AL DH on the other side.

The rule needs to be standardized full time. As a traditionalist I'd prefer to see the DH go away. As a realist, given the power of the MLBPA and the fact that every other level of baseball allows the DH, I suspect that the DH will soon be implemented league-wide.

No I think you misunderstand. Two NL teams there is no need for a DH. Why use it? And as far as that disadvantage it is mostly overblown. People act like an AL team has never clinched a WS in the NL park and vice versa. It needs to be the same is the weakest possible argument. I may give up on baseball if fully implemented be cause I have no interest in 4 hour slugfests.

[bravesnumberone]

I think it's probably time for it to be uniform one way or the other. I'd prefer doing away with the DH, honestly. But yes, having the DH would help the Braves and would have helped them in previous years with McCann/Gattis.

[Enscheff]

No, that shouldn't be the end result.

NL teams face a greater disadvantage by playing against AL teams with a DH. AL teams carry a DH full time. NL teams end up using bench players who usually aren't up to par offensively with the AL DH on the other side.

The rule needs to be standardized full time. As a traditionalist I'd prefer to see the DH go away. As a realist, given the power of the MLBPA and the fact that every other level of baseball allows the DH, I suspect that the DH will soon be implemented league-wide.

You are correct that the DH gives the AL a distinct advantage over the NL. Not only do AL teams carry one more starting caliber hitter on their rosters, the presence of the DH also allows them to sign aging players and have the option of moving them to DH as they age. NL teams don't have that option, so they tend to not sign the aging sluggers that are a liability on defense.

This advantage slowly brings more talent to the AL, and has been bared out by the AL's dominance in interleague play.

[Enscheff]

No I think you misunderstand. Two NL teams there is no need for a DH. Why use it? And as far as that disadvantage it is mostly overblown. People act like an AL team has never clinched a WS in the NL park and vice versa. It needs to be the same is the weakest possible argument. I may give up on baseball if fully implemented be cause I have no interest in 4 hour slugfests.

Sorry to interject facts into the discussion, but the DH has very little impact on game length.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/is-the-dh-rule-bane-of-baseball-purists-slowing-the-game-down/

[Horsehide Harry]

Sorry to interject facts into the discussion, but the DH has very little impact on game length.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/is-the-dh-rule-bane-of-baseball-purists-slowing-the-game-down/

The elephant in the room is TV, specifically commercial breaks. Everyone harkens back to the "good old days of 2 hour games" but neglects to mention that there was no TV.

[VirginiaBrave]

Sorry to interject facts into the discussion, but the DH has very little impact on game length.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/is-the-dh-rule-bane-of-baseball-purists-slowing-the-game-down/

You want a fact here's one. The NL is fine w/o the DH. I will concede go ahead and use it in any game with an AL team. Leave the NL as is.

[Horsehide Harry]

You want a fact here's one. The NL is fine w/o the DH. I will concede go ahead and use it in any game with an AL team. Leave the NL as is.

I hate the DH too. But I'm a realist. The players association will never allow the DH to go away in the AL. And because of the reasons given by Enscheff above, that gives the AL an advantage over the NL. It's not an insurmountable advantage but an advantage none the less. When there was no interleague play, it was less of a concern because you didn't meet an AL team until the WS and then the DH was split between parks. Now, because of interleague play it has a more pronounced effect on NL teams and it shows in the record.

I liked the game fine with no DH in either league, no interleague play, no BS All Star game home field effect, etc. But the game is never going back to that and I've come to accept that.

[Carp]

This would be the worst decision ever. The DH is an abomination and should be outlawed.

[mfree80]

This would be the worst decision ever. The DH is an abomination and should be outlawed.

I don't like the DH either. I wish it had never happened at the MLB LEVEL. Having said that The National League is about the only league anywhere at any level that doesn't use it. The minors use it, High schools use it, American Legion uses it, Little League even uses it. Kids grow up with it.

I get that in youth leagues you like it because it gets one more kid into the game.

Even with my personal dislike of it, I think it is time. It is so much a part of the game at every level that not having it is the anomaly. The NL fought hard to keep it out for a long time, but the time has come. :facepalm:

[Enscheff]

You want a fact here's one. The NL is fine w/o the DH. I will concede go ahead and use it in any game with an AL team. Leave the NL as is.

I think you need to research the word "fact".

You want a fact, here's one: that was your opinion. Opinions are not equivalent to facts, and neither are incorrect facts like you tried to use to support your claim earlier.

The FACTS are:

1. The DH doesn't increase the length of games.

2. The DH gives the AL a measurable advantage.

Just because you don't like the DH doesn't change any of those facts. That's why they are facts.

[VirginiaBrave]

I think you need to research the word "fact".

You want a fact, here's one: that was your opinion. Opinions are not equivalent to facts, and neither are incorrect facts like you tried to use to support your claim earlier.

The FACTS are:

1. The DH doesn't increase the length of games.

2. The DH gives the AL a measurable advantage.

Just because you don't like the DH doesn't change any of those facts. That's why they are facts.

You sir are too enamored with facts. The DH has no barring on a game between two NL teams (That's a fact) and for the sake of the game and tradition it should stay that way (That's an opinion)

[Enscheff]

You sir are too enamored with facts. The DH has no barring on a game between two NL teams (That's a fact) and for the sake of the game and tradition it should stay that way (That's an opinion)

Yeah, we definitely shouldn't base decisions on something as meaningless as facts. Keeping things status quo in the name of tradition has always been a bulletproof argument over the course of history.

(Both of those statements were sarcasm)

[GovClintonTyree]

Yeah, we definitely shouldn't base decisions on something as meaningless as facts. Keeping things status quo in the name of tradition has always been a bulletproof argument over the course of history.

(Both of those statements were sarcasm)

As an aside, I wonder how many of these threads end with Enscheff as the last poster, others tired of arguing, him needing to have the last word?

I need to introduce you to my ex-wife. You two would be incredible together. Gunplay might be involved.

[bravesfanMatt]

having a DH in one league and not the other and then having those two leagues play each other is Dumb. Both sides face a disadvantage when playing in opposing parks... The AL has a slightly less disadvantage however.

as Dirk said, I would prefer it gone.. but that is not going to happen. Just install the DH for the NL and let the 'traditionalist' start the adjustment period. I would recommend giving a full year notice so teams can build for it. So if it gets introduced in this off season's CBA, then don't install it until the 2018 season.

we can keep avoiding the issue, but we are just kicking the can down the road. It would be like the NFC and AFC having only one league that uses a punter. Just dump to have two sets of rules.

[Preacher]

I can't wait for the DH in the NL, I think it just makes a better product.

If the sport of baseball was just now invented and you hadn't grown up with seeing pitchers hit; I don't think you'd be enthralled with the idea of seeing Matt Wisler and Aaron Blair come to bat.

[yeezus]

Part of me doesn't like pitchers batting because it's almost always an out. But another side of me doesn't like a guy's only job being to walk out of the dugout to the plate four times a game and not participating in the other aspects of the game of baseball.

[smootness]

I can't wait for the DH in the NL, I think it just makes a better product.

If the sport of baseball was just now invented and you hadn't grown up with seeing pitchers hit; I don't think you'd be enthralled with the idea of seeing Matt Wisler and Aaron Blair come to bat.

But if the game was just invented, the idea of a DH wouldn't make any sense. 'We will have all players who play defense also bat...except one of them. So in his place, we will put someone who doesn't play defense.' That doesn't make logical sense. It's actually because baseball was not just recently invented and we've had time to see pitchers stop working on hitting in any way and devolve into complete garbage with the bat that we've decided we'd rather invent a new illogical rule to avoid having them hit.

Imagine if 1B around the league started spending all their time in the cage because that is what they are primarily there for; if 1B defense devolved into an embarrassment around the league as a result, would we be in favor of a designated fielder for 1B? It's the exact same concept, though I admit an individual pitcher's bat has less impact on a team than a 1B's defense. But to me the response should be, start spending more time on defense if you want to stop being bad at it.

I don't like the DH, but I've accepted its inevitability.

[Preacher]

But if the game was just invented, the idea of a DH wouldn't make any sense. 'We will have all players who play defense also bat...except one of them. So in his place, we will put someone who doesn't play defense.' That doesn't make logical sense. It's actually because baseball was not just recently invented and we've had time to see pitchers stop working on hitting in any way and devolve into complete garbage with the bat that we've decided we'd rather invent a new illogical rule to avoid having them hit.

Imagine if 1B around the league started spending all their time in the cage because that is what they are primarily there for; if 1B devolved into garbage around the league as a result, would we be in favor of a designated fielder for 1B? It's the exact same concept, though I admit an individual pitcher's bat has less impact on a team than a 1B's defense. But to me the response should be, start spending more time on defense if you want to stop being bad at it.

I don't like the DH, but I've accepted its inevitability.

But as you've said pitchers aren't going to start getting better at hitting, its not going to happen.

Eventually the NFL said these XPs are pointless, we are moving the kick back so that something might actually happen. That's also true in baseball, people are tired of seeing (mostly) useless hitters get up there and flail around. Its not good for the sport and as many have noted having two leagues with different rules is silly if there's interleague play.

[thewupk]

Part of me doesn't like pitchers batting because it's almost always an out. But another side of me doesn't like a guy's only job being to walk out of the dugout to the plate four times a game and not participating in the other aspects of the game of baseball.

The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.

[yeezus]

The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.

Yeah, those are fair points. I don't think those things impact the game as much as a DH does, so there's something to be discussed there. But the game has shifted (literally).

[bravesfanMatt]

The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.

you stole my point. I was going to say that yeezus must not like BP specialization then.

[smootness]

But as you've said pitchers aren't going to start getting better at hitting, its not going to happen.

Eventually the NFL said these XPs are pointless, we are moving the kick back so that something might actually happen. That's also true in baseball, people are tired of seeing (mostly) useless hitters get up there and flail around. Its not good for the sport and as many have noted having two leagues with different rules is silly if there's interleague play.

I still don't like the idea of players dictating rule changes simply because they stopped paying attention to an area of the game. I get it for practical purposes, but I don't like it. That's all I'm saying.

I just can't really think of an example in another sport where one of the basic rules of the sport was changed in such a drastic way. Moving an XP back isn't close to the same thing. Maybe the allowance of the forward pass? Or the slam dunk? But those were inevitable progressions, where the DH is essentially a regression.

[thewupk]

Yeah, those are fair points. I don't think those things impact the game as much as a DH does, so there's something to be discussed there. But the game has shifted (literally).

The lefty specialist and bullpen construction has certainly impacted the game in a big way. I think the DH just better optimizes your team for success. It improves your offense and defense at the same time.

[smootness]

The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.

These weren't rule changes, though...just people learning to exploit areas within the presently constructed rules. The DH was not a tactical shift by players or teams; it was baseball saying, these pitchers aren't good at hitting anymore. Let's not make them do it.

I don't like it in the same way I don't like rules designed for the sole purpose of increasing scoring in other sports. Rule changes should come about because it's become clear over time they don't work as intended, or because they just don't make sense anymore, not just because you want a basketball team scoring 110 instead of 85. Those kind of rule changes hurt the sport, IMO. You can argue the DH was an instance of a rule change because making the pitcher hit didn't make sense anymore, but we'll just have to disagree on that.

[yeezus]

you stole my point. I was going to say that yeezus must not like BP specialization then.

Actually, good point: I don't like that stuff. I don't like, especially when rosters expand, the constant changing of pitchers to match up with the batters. It slows the game down and is really boring.

[bravesfanMatt]

These weren't rule changes, though...just people learning to exploit areas within the presently constructed rules. The DH was not a tactical shift by players or teams; it was baseball saying, these pitchers aren't good at hitting anymore. Let's not make them do it.

I don't like it in the same way I don't like rules designed for the sole purpose of increasing scoring in other sports. Rule changes should come about because it's become clear over time they don't work as intended, or because they just don't make sense anymore, not just because you want a basketball team scoring 110 instead of 85. Those kind of rule changes hurt the sport, IMO. You can argue the DH was an instance of a rule change because making the pitcher hit didn't make sense anymore, but we'll just have to disagree on that.

it wasn't a reply to a rule change but more yeezus saying he doesn't like the idea of a guys only role is coming off the bench and hitting four times a game.

rule changes are a whole other aspect.

[bravesfanMatt]

Actually, good point: I don't like that stuff. I don't like, especially when rosters expand, the constant changing of pitchers to match up with the batters. It slows the game down and is really boring.

yes but it works.. just like the shift works. I personally hate the 4 pitching changes per inning... but should there be a rule preventing them. I sort of like the idea of it.. but that is a complete thread jack..

[yeezus]

yes but it works.. just like the shift works. I personally hate the 4 pitching changes per inning... but should there be a rule preventing them. I sort of like the idea of it.. but that is a complete thread jack..

I'm just saying, if the idea of a DH means I don't like the idea of bullpen matchups, you're absolutely right. There's things I don't like about both of them.

[chop2chip]

These weren't rule changes, though...just people learning to exploit areas within the presently constructed rules. The DH was not a tactical shift by players or teams; it was baseball saying, these pitchers aren't good at hitting anymore. Let's not make them do it.

To elaborate on your point further (I think you're right, generally).

The American League, at the time, was a far less profitable and attractive league at the time. The AL chose to adopt the DH as a means to attract aging stars to play in the American League (and to continue the career of the stars that they had). That ended up being a brilliant maneuver because the American League has no doubt benefited from the DH with gate-attractions like David Ortiz, Molitor, Frank Thomas, etc. finding a place on the field when they may have washed out of the league completely if there wasn't a DH.

[mfree80]

But as you've said pitchers aren't going to start getting better at hitting, its not going to happen.

Eventually the NFL said these XPs are pointless, we are moving the kick back so that something might actually happen. That's also true in baseball, people are tired of seeing (mostly) useless hitters get up there and flail around. Its not good for the sport and as many have noted having two leagues with different rules is silly if there's interleague play.

Even though I have also accepted it as inevitable, there is still a significant opportunity for pitchers to contribute to the game offensively. Some pitchers are really good at bunting and moving runners over. A few pitchers are still good hitters. The DH completely diminishes that tool, making it useless. I like the idea of making a pitchers ability to hit, bunt and otherwise affect the game a useful part of the game. That should be rewarded, not eliminated.

But alas, I see the opposite happening.

[BlackwaterPark]

To elaborate on your point further (I think you're right, generally).

The American League, at the time, was a far less profitable and attractive league at the time. The AL chose to adopt the DH as a means to attract aging stars to play in the American League (and to continue the career of the stars that they had). That ended up being a brilliant maneuver because the American League has no doubt benefited from the DH with gate-attractions like David Ortiz, Molitor, Frank Thomas, etc. finding a place on the field when they may have washed out of the league completely if there wasn't a DH.

Exactly this. We could have gotten 2 more years out of Chipper as a DH I bet, and he could have gotten close, if not to 500 HR's.

[thewupk]

These weren't rule changes, though...just people learning to exploit areas within the presently constructed rules. The DH was not a tactical shift by players or teams; it was baseball saying, these pitchers aren't good at hitting anymore. Let's not make them do it.

I don't like it in the same way I don't like rules designed for the sole purpose of increasing scoring in other sports. Rule changes should come about because it's become clear over time they don't work as intended, or because they just don't make sense anymore, not just because you want a basketball team scoring 110 instead of 85. Those kind of rule changes hurt the sport, IMO. You can argue the DH was an instance of a rule change because making the pitcher hit didn't make sense anymore, but we'll just have to disagree on that.

It was a way to keep older players who couldn't play the field anymore to still be able to hit.

[cajunrevenge]

I still like the idea of designated fielder in the NFL. That way you can a DH but the pitcher still has to hit because no one can field for him. Defensive highlights are great for the game. There's lots of great defenders who never make the majors.

[NinersSBChamps]

Baseball is a joke if they make the DH universal. Pitchers are baseball players too. Guess maybe we should treat quarterbacks like this too. Maybe call the play dead if they throw an interception.

[zbhargrove]

Baseball is a joke if they make the DH universal. Pitchers are baseball players too. Guess maybe we should treat quarterbacks like this too. Maybe call the play dead if they throw an interception.

We have seen it with quarterbacks... they are treated with kid gloves now. Calling the play dead when they throw an interception? That's not even close to a valid comparison.

[Carp]

The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.

That isn't relatable at all. Defensive replacements still get a good amount of at bats throughout the year. And LOOGY's still face plenty of RHH.

Pitchers are players too. They should have to hit. The AL needs to change. Not the other way around.

[thewupk]

That isn't relatable at all. Defensive replacements still get a good amount of at bats throughout the year. And LOOGY's still face plenty of RHH.

Pitchers are players too. They should have to hit. The AL needs to change. Not the other way around.

While that is true they still have current jobs that didn't exist 50 years ago. Pitchers are players and their job is to pitch. The DH has been in MLB for a couple of generations now. It's more common and accepted through all forms of baseball. The NL will adopt it soon as a natural progression of the game.

[50PoundHead]

I've always been for home-team option. David Ortiz coming to town? Make him play 1B.

[VirginiaBrave]

Again the simplest way to make things right is to use it with games where an AL team is involved, but leave it alone inside the NL. Everybody's happy and the disadvantage disappears.

[yeezus]

Again the simplest way to make things right is to use it with games where an AL team is involved, but leave it alone inside the NL. Everybody's happy and the disadvantage disappears.

Wouldn't an NL team be disadvantaged when using it vs an AL team?

[Enscheff]

Again the simplest way to make things right is to use it with games where an AL team is involved, but leave it alone inside the NL. Everybody's happy and the disadvantage disappears.

The advantage is deeper than just inside the game being played. It spreads to the entire roster excercise of construction and the AL's ability to sign bigger FA talent because they have a full time DH position those guys can transition into.

[VirginiaBrave]

The advantage is deeper than just inside the game being played. It spreads to the entire roster excercise of construction and the AL's ability to sign bigger FA talent because they have a full time DH position those guys can transition into.

Disagree because we don't play enough games against AL teams for that to matter. You can throw out a million, I promise I have a million and one.

[gilesfan]

By adopting the DH, you lose a ton of strategy involved in the game of baseball. You essentially hire a manager to mange the bullpen and thats it. I really don't understand the desire for the DH, there are 9 players and they should each hit and field. Why doesn't the NBA have a designated 3 point shooter that just runs off the court and switches with a defensive player when possession changes? Or in soccer, you could just run off players when possession changes.

[thewupk]

Disagree because we don't play enough games against AL teams for that to matter. You can throw out a million, I promise I have a million and one.

It does matter because the AL team would have a legit MLB hitter as the DH where the NL team uses their best bench player.

[bravesfanMatt]

It does matter because the AL team would have a legit MLB hitter as the DH where the NL team uses their best bench player.

yes, I don't think everyone is understanding that the AL team is always going to have an advantage over an NL team. Even in an NL park. AL teams can justify paying a hitter who really only value is hitting. NL teams can't.. So even in an NL park, the AL team will have a better pinch hitter. I don't think NL pitchers hit enough to really skew that advantage back to the NL.

[Enscheff]

Disagree because we don't play enough games against AL teams for that to matter. You can throw out a million, I promise I have a million and one.

A million and one what? Points that don't pertain to the discussion? It is an indisputable fact the AL is better than the NL.

Your point relates to the number of inter-league games, which isn't even a counter-point to me saying "the AL accumulates better talent over time". It would be like me saying, "It's warmer in Hawaii than in Alaska", and you saying, "I disagree because I rarely go to Hawaii".

The only part open for debate is "why is the AL better than the NL?". The obvious answer is the only real difference between the leagues, the DH. The most obvious reason that is the case is because the AL teams have 1 more MLB caliber hitter on their roster than NL teams that they can use as a DH or as a PHer in a high leverage situation. The less obvious reason is that the DH position allows teams to sign guys like Pujols, JUpton, Mac, Miggy, Oriz, Bautista, and many other older sluggers without fear of them having no place to play when they get too old to play the field.

How many times have you seen it written that so-and-so veteran slugger will likely sign with an AL team so he can DH? The NL simply doesn't have that option. Over time, the AL accumulates better hitters and can deploy them as DHes.

[Enscheff]

By adopting the DH, you lose a ton of strategy involved in the game of baseball. You essentially hire a manager to mange the bullpen and thats it. I really don't understand the desire for the DH, there are 9 players and they should each hit and field. Why doesn't the NBA have a designated 3 point shooter that just runs off the court and switches with a defensive player when possession changes? Or in soccer, you could just run off players when possession changes.

A ton of strategy? It doesn't exactly take a chess master to PH for the pitcher when he's near 100 pitches with the best hitter remaining on the bench. Let's keep it real when we talk about how much "strategy" PHing for the pitcher really adds to the game.

[VirginiaBrave]

A million and one what? Points that don't pertain to the discussion? It is an indisputable fact the AL is better than the NL.

Your point relates to the number of inter-league games, which isn't even a counter-point to me saying "the AL accumulates better talent over time". It would be like me saying, "It's warmer in Hawaii than in Alaska", and you saying, "I disagree because I rarely go to Hawaii".

The only part open for debate is "why is the AL better than the NL?". The obvious answer is the only real difference between the leagues, the DH. The most obvious reason that is the case is because the AL teams have 1 more MLB caliber hitter on their roster than NL teams that they can use as a DH or as a PHer in a high leverage situation. The less obvious reason is that the DH position allows teams to sign guys like Pujols, JUpton, Mac, Miggy, Oriz, Bautista, and many other older sluggers without fear of them having no place to play when they get too old to play the field.

How many times have you seen it written that so-and-so veteran slugger will likely sign with an AL team so he can DH? The NL simply doesn't have that option. Over time, the AL accumulates better hitters and can deploy them as DHes.

It is an indisputable fact the AL is better than the NL.

And here I thought you knew the difference between opinions and facts. I guess not. Did you know the NL has won WS before? And they used to dominate the All Star game. You are fighting a losing battle with me..

[Enscheff]

It is an indisputable fact the AL is better than the NL.

And here I thought you knew the difference between opinions and facts. I guess not. Did you know the NL has won WS before? And they used to dominate the All Star game. You are fighting a losing battle with me..

A single team winning a 7 game series against another single team does not prove one entire league is better than the other, and neither is winning a single exhibition game.

Since interleague play began the AL has a .528 overall winning percentage vs the NL. That translates to an 86-76 season. The last time the NL had a winning record vs the AL was way back in 2003.

This is not a battle, this is you denying facts. You may like the NL style of play more (a perfectly fine opinion), but to say the NL isn't dominated by the AL is simply ignoring the facts staring you in the face, or a misunderstanding about how "single team" and "entire league" are not the same thing.

A .528 team (AL) can lose a series to a .472 team (NL). It happens all the time, but the .528 team is still better.

[DontStopTheChop]

+1 Enscheff

I don't post much and I realize Enscheff can be a real hassle to converse with but this is exactly how you should intrepret it. It goes way beyond the in-game interleague play. Do people realize how valuable Matt Kemp becomes if the DH comes to the NL? David Ortiz's value decreases dramatically if he is forced to play the field. I understand the argument that pitchers are players too and therefore should bat. I totally agree. I wish we could just do away with it it both leagues. But, I am afraid it is inevitable that the NL gets the DH.

But, let's not deny the fact that players who are in twilight of their careers can go to the AL as a DH and still perform at a high level. Not the case if they stay in the NL. Often times players leave and sign a contract with an AL Team because their careers may be extended due to the DH.

[The Chosen One]

Chipper performed pretty well at 40.

[Enscheff]

Chipper performed pretty well at 40.

And he probably could have served as a DH for another couple years if the NL had it.

Again, 1 single player does not prove anything. Nor does a 7 game series between the best 2 teams in each league.

It's like me saying Alabama is a more obese state than Colorado, and then you saying, "well my neighbor is really fit". Or the other guy saying, "well the hottest chicks in Alabama are sometimes hotter than the hottest chicks in Colorado". Both are probably true, but it doesn't change the fact that the South is full of fat asses compared to the Western US.

[VirginiaBrave]

A .528 team (AL) can lose a series to a .472 team (NL). It happens all the time, but the .528 team is still better.

The ring is everything.

[auyushu]

Chipper performed pretty well at 40.

Chipper averaged right at 120 games played per season over his last 8 seasons. I think it's safe to say he would have managed many more games than that if he had been able to DH a portion of the time (or all the time in his last few seasons).

[Enscheff]

A .528 team (AL) can lose a series to a .472 team (NL). It happens all the time, but the .528 team is still better.

The ring is everything.

You appear to be the only person that doesn't realize a couple short series do not accurately reflect which team is truly the best. Also the only one that doesn't realize that a single series between two teams is not indicative of league wide trends.

Congrats?

[TheBravos]

I don't care who is better (probably just depends on which team matches up with another). AL has the bats for sure because of the DH. I like the NL's style of play. I think if you are in the game as a pitcher...you should have to bat. Players should retire if they can't play their position anymore. My two cents. BTW, if a NL team wins the World Series, that kinda means the NL had the best team that year (or vice versa). All those years the Bulls won the Championship, there were overall better teams in the west than the east....I only remember the Bulls. They won so the east was the best...was it even though the west may have had a better win percentage?...yes rings count x2.

[Enscheff]

I don't care who is better (probably just depends on which team matches up with another). AL has the bats for sure because of the DH. I like the NL's style of play. I think if you are in the game as a pitcher...you should have to bat. Players should retire if they can't play their position anymore. My two cents. BTW, if a NL team wins the World Series, that kinda means the NL had the best team that year (or vice versa). All those years the Bulls won the Championship, there were overall better teams in the west than the east....I only remember the Bulls. They won so the east was the best...was it even though the west may have had a better win percentage?...yes rings count x2.

So because the Bulls won the title that means their conference was the best conference? Am I following your logic correctly?

[VirginiaBrave]

You appear to be the only person that doesn't realize a couple short series do not accurately reflect which team is truly the best. Also the only one that doesn't realize that a single series between two teams is not indicative of league wide trends.

Congrats?

Well I hate to burst your bubble but the only people that care the Atlanta Braves were the best team in baseball in '96 and '97 are members of Braves nation. All the rest of the world cares about is that the Yankees and Marlins have rings so once again your stats and argument for that matter mean very little.

[gilesfan]

A ton of strategy? It doesn't exactly take a chess master to PH for the pitcher when he's near 100 pitches with the best hitter remaining on the bench. Let's keep it real when we talk about how much "strategy" PHing for the pitcher really adds to the game.

Bunting. Double switches. In the AL,you dont worry about "do I try to get the pitcher one more inning before he is due to hit?"

AL managers can sleep thru the majority of the game. They arent needed, just whether to change pitchers or not.

[thewupk]

Chipper performed pretty well at 40.

Imagine a 2010 season where Chipper is the DH and doesn't end his season playing 3rd? You can argue it both ways with him as he did still play 3B at an acceptable and sometimes good level late in his career. But the daily grind also put him at less games played per year. As a fulltime DH he likely plays close to a full season. And I would argue his value would be higher as a DH playing 145+ games even with the DH penalty.

[Knucksie]

What's it been? About 43 years since the AL adopted the DH? No reason to think that there's any more support for it now than ever before in the NL. If anything, Selig would have been one to push for it with his "change for the sake of change" approach as commissioner.

[chop2chip]

Bunting. Double switches. In the AL,you dont worry about "do I try to get the pitcher one more inning before he is due to hit?"

AL managers can sleep thru the majority of the game. They arent needed, just whether to change pitchers or not.

To be fair, those are some of the most boring parts of baseball.

[TheBravos]

So because the Bulls won the title that means their conference was the best conference? Am I following your logic correctly?

If your team "won it all"...then yes. The Patriots have been in a crappy division year after year. No one cares, when that division has the super bowl winner. I see what you are saying...I do. People remember championships though, not high win percentages.

[yeezus]

I don't care about pitchers not hitting as much as I care about a guy who does nothing all game except walk to the plate four times and swing the bat. It's kinda lame for that guy to have such a major potential impact offensively and not have to field a position, all game, every single game.

[50PoundHead]

I don't care about pitchers not hitting as much as I care about a guy who does nothing all game except walk to the plate four times and swing the bat. It's kinda lame for that guy to have such a major potential impact offensively and not have to field a position, all game, every single game.


Plus, the DH promotes obesity.

[yeezus]

[/B]

Plus, the DH promotes obesity.

Calm down there, Michelle.

[50PoundHead]

Calm down there, Michelle.

More fruits and vegetables on the post-game training table. NOW!

[smootness]

If your team "won it all"...then yes. The Patriots have been in a crappy division year after year. No one cares, when that division has the super bowl winner. I see what you are saying...I do. People remember championships though, not high win percentages.

Ok. Well, by that measure, the AL has also won 19 of the last 32 WS, 14 of the last 24, 10 of the last 18, etc.

By pretty much any measure, the AL has been a better league than the NL. Maybe not by a ton, but the evidence is there.

[gilesfan]

To be fair, those are some of the most boring parts of baseball.

In your opinion, they might be. In mine, they are not.

[yeezus]

Ok. Well, by that measure, the AL has also won 19 of the last 32 WS, 14 of the last 24, 10 of the last 18, etc.

By pretty much any measure, the AL has been a better league than the NL. Maybe not by a ton, but the evidence is there.

I do think, however, the AL has a big advantage in AL parks vs. the NL that the NL doesn't have in their own parks.

[bravesfanMatt]

I do think, however, the AL has a big advantage in AL parks vs. the NL that the NL doesn't have in their own parks.

what?

[thewupk]

In your opinion, they might be. In mine, they are not.

To most fans who have grown up in the DH era it is. And for a sport that always wants to infuse offense into the league the DH in the NL is something that is just going to happen at some point.

[gilesfan]

To most fans who have grown up in the DH era it is. And for a sport that always wants to infuse offense into the league the DH in the NL is something that is just going to happen at some point.

I agree it will probably happen. Im not sure that type of baseball keeps my interest.

[chop2chip]

In your opinion, they might be. In mine, they are not.

I just can't stomach watching a pitcher lay down a ****ty bunt 3 times a game, if he's fortunate. The rest of the game he's an automatic strikeout.

[smootness]

To most fans who have grown up in the DH era it is. And for a sport that always wants to infuse offense into the league the DH in the NL is something that is just going to happen at some point.

Yeah, I think most have accepted that it's going to happen at some point. But I do agree with giles that it isn't boring. To me, the more baseball becomes about just mashing, the more boring it is. I like variety and the idea that players of varying skills can have impacts on the game, and that there are multiple ways to score runs. I know that discussion isn't entirely about the DH, though.

But to take it to its logical extreme, we could eliminate strikeouts and move the fences in another 50 feet. After all, that would mean more offense and thus be more exciting, right? I don't think anyone would enjoy that just because more runs were scored.

[Enscheff]

Whether you like AL or NL baseball better is an opinion.

The AL being better than the NL due to the DH is a fact.

Whether or not you think that advantage needs to be corrected is also an opinion. If you think it is acceptable for the AL to have a measurable advantage over the NL in interleague play and the World Series, then I question your understanding of creating an even playing field.

Smootness just listed out how much the DH advantage has benefited the AL in the WS over the last few decades, and I gave the data about their advantage in interleague play. That advantage needs to be remedied, either by removing the DH completely, or adopting it completely. I'm pretty sure we all know which outcome is more likely to happen (or maybe not).

[yeezus]

what?

exactly.

[thewupk]

Yeah, I think most have accepted that it's going to happen at some point. But I do agree with giles that it isn't boring. To me, the more baseball becomes about just mashing, the more boring it is. I like variety and the idea that players of varying skills can have impacts on the game, and that there are multiple ways to score runs. I know that discussion isn't entirely about the DH, though.

But to take it to its logical extreme, we could eliminate strikeouts and move the fences in another 50 feet. After all, that would mean more offense and thus be more exciting, right? I don't think anyone would enjoy that just because more runs were scored.

I understand that completely. I grew up on NL ball and for the longest time have preferred it. Lately however it just upsets me to see a rally thwarted because it's the pitchers turn at bat.

[50PoundHead]

Whether you like AL or NL baseball better is an opinion.

The AL being better than the NL due to the DH is a fact.

Whether or not you think that advantage needs to be corrected is also an opinion. If you think it is acceptable for the AL to have a measurable advantage over the NL in interleague play and the World Series, then I question your understanding of creating an even playing field.

Smootness just listed out how much the DH advantage has benefited the AL in the WS over the last few decades, and I gave the data about their advantage in interleague play. That advantage needs to be remedied, either by removing the DH completely, or adopting it completely. I'm pretty sure we all know which outcome is more likely to happen (or maybe not).

I've advocated home-team option for years. I think it would add a lot of strategy to the game in how teams view other teams' strengths and weaknesses. Add a player to the roster with 25 active on game day (and the inactive player cannot be a pitcher from the starting rotation). That would give teams the flexibility to add an extra bat in non-DH games if they so chose. Make a requirement that teams would have to play so many DH or non-DH games during the season.

[smootness]

I understand that completely. I grew up on NL ball and for the longest time have preferred it. Lately however it just upsets me to see a rally thwarted because it's the pitchers turn at bat.

I get that, but to me it's just part of baseball. If a team doesn't want that to happen, then find pitchers who can hit. I just hate that the DH was ever adopted in the AL because now the easy answer is just, 'Let's add the DH.' And we know it's not going anywhere in the AL, which makes it inevitable to eventually come to the NL.

[smootness]

I've advocated home-team option for years. I think it would add a lot of strategy to the game in how teams view other teams' strengths and weaknesses. Add a player to the roster with 25 active on game day (and the inactive player cannot be a pitcher from the starting rotation). That would give teams the flexibility to add an extra bat in non-DH games if they so chose. Make a requirement that teams would have to play so many DH or non-DH games during the season.

Are you talking about for every game during the season? That's somewhat intriguing, though likely never going to happen.

But how would you enforce the requirement on a certain number of DH/non-DH games? If half a team's games are out of its control?

[bravesfanMatt]

I think we should just adopt the DH in both leagues but just make the DH pitch each inning. That should solve everything right?!?

[mfree80]

I understand that completely. I grew up on NL ball and for the longest time have preferred it. Lately however it just upsets me to see a rally thwarted because it's the pitchers turn at bat.

Depends on whether it is our rally thwarted or the other teams. The strategy of working around the pitcher in your line-up and the other teams line-up makes the game much more interesting, and adds several layers of decisions and potential outcomes.

[50PoundHead]

Are you talking about for every game during the season? That's somewhat intriguing, though likely never going to happen.

But how would you enforce the requirement on a certain number of DH/non-DH games? If half a team's games are out of its control?

Every game.

Good question on the games requirement. I haven't thought that through, but it could be a very low number.

[gilesfan]

I just can't stomach watching a pitcher lay down a ****ty bunt 3 times a game, if he's fortunate. The rest of the game he's an automatic strikeout.

I understand people don't like it.

[gilesfan]

I understand that completely. I grew up on NL ball and for the longest time have preferred it. Lately however it just upsets me to see a rally thwarted because it's the pitchers turn at bat.

Well, it probably doesn't if its the Braves on the mound.... Or the pitcher could work on hitting. Or the manager could pinch hit for the pitcher in the rally.

[gilesfan]

I get that, but to me it's just part of baseball. If a team doesn't want that to happen, then find pitchers who can hit. I just hate that the DH was ever adopted in the AL because now the easy answer is just, 'Let's add the DH.' And we know it's not going anywhere in the AL, which makes it inevitable to eventually come to the NL.

How long are AL games vs. NL? Anyone know? AL games seem to last forever.

[VirginiaBrave]

Ok. Well, by that measure, the AL has also won 19 of the last 32 WS, 14 of the last 24, 10 of the last 18, etc.

By pretty much any measure, the AL has been a better league than the NL. Maybe not by a ton, but the evidence is there.

That's not a reason for uniformity. Think about Waino, Madbum, and Arietta. There is no reason young pitchers can't be developed into at least doubles hitters. If they are bought up being allowed to hit and play other positions. If we can keep the DH out of the NL Blair will be a good hitter given time.

[Enscheff]

How long are AL games vs. NL? Anyone know? AL games seem to last forever.

They are the same duration within a few seconds. It doesn't take any more/less pitches for a DH to bat than it does for a pitcher to K or bunt.

The long AL games fallacy mostly stems from insanely long games between the BoSox and Yanks.

[Enscheff]

That's not a reason for uniformity. Think about Waino, Madbum, and Arietta. There is no reason young pitchers can't be developed into at least doubles hitters. If they are bought up being allowed to hit and play other positions. If we can keep the DH out of the NL Blair will be a good hitter given time.

Haha, nice!

You just can't wrap your head around small sample size issues can you? That would explain why you think one league having a quantified advantage over the other league is OK because sometimes the disadvantaged league wins in spite of the rules being against them. Like how there is no racism in the country because there are successful black people.

I think I get it now. It's like having a discussion about the economy with someone who thinks they can relate the federal budget to a household budget, or with the guy that thinks doubling the minimum wage will double the cost of fast food, or with the guy that thinks getting a raise that bumps you into a higher tax bracket could actually force you to take home less money because he doesn't understand how marginal tax rates work.

There is a lack of fundamental knowledge that makes a rational discussion impossible. So that means it's time to stop.

[VirginiaBrave]

Haha, nice!

You just can't wrap your head around small sample size issues can you? That would explain why you think one league having a quantified advantage over the other league is OK because sometimes the disadvantaged league wins in spite of the rules being against them. Like how there is no racism in the country because there are successful black people.

I think I get it now. It's like having a discussion about the economy with someone who thinks they can relate the federal budget to a household budget, or with the guy that thinks doubling the minimum wage will double the cost of fast food, or with the guy that thinks getting a raise that bumps you into a higher tax bracket could actually force you to take home less money because he doesn't understand how marginal tax rates work.

There is a lack of fundamental knowledge that makes a rational discussion impossible. So that means it's time to stop.

Its not a lack of fundamental knowledge. Its hate of DH and change without reason for it. And I just don't accept your rationale because you can't tell every story with numbers. Your not going to win this argument.

[smootness]

That's not a reason for uniformity. Think about Waino, Madbum, and Arietta. There is no reason young pitchers can't be developed into at least doubles hitters. If they are bought up being allowed to hit and play other positions. If we can keep the DH out of the NL Blair will be a good hitter given time.

Past history says time is a negative for a pitcher's offense, not a positive.

And while trying to find a pitcher who can hit could give NL teams an advantage against other NL teams and against AL teams at home, the AL team still has the advantage in AL parks.

[smootness]

Haha, nice!

You just can't wrap your head around small sample size issues can you? That would explain why you think one league having a quantified advantage over the other league is OK because sometimes the disadvantaged league wins in spite of the rules being against them. Like how there is no racism in the country because there are successful black people.

I think I get it now. It's like having a discussion about the economy with someone who thinks they can relate the federal budget to a household budget, or with the guy that thinks doubling the minimum wage will double the cost of fast food, or with the guy that thinks getting a raise that bumps you into a higher tax bracket could actually force you to take home less money because he doesn't understand how marginal tax rates work.

There is a lack of fundamental knowledge that makes a rational discussion impossible. So that means it's time to stop.

Goodness, you can be a tool.

[yeezus]

Goodness, you can be a tool.

he's constantly trying to flex his internet muscles. bizarre.

[Carp]

I just can't stomach watching a pitcher lay down a ****ty bunt 3 times a game, if he's fortunate. The rest of the game he's an automatic strikeout.

These outcomes don't happen nearly as many times as you make it out to be. And many pitchers tend to be pretty good at bunting, seeing as that is what they are required to do very frequently.

[Carp]

Ok. Well, by that measure, the AL has also won 19 of the last 32 WS, 14 of the last 24, 10 of the last 18, etc.

By pretty much any measure, the AL has been a better league than the NL. Maybe not by a ton, but the evidence is there.

These numbers are so random. 32, 24, and 18.... and it's within a few games of variation. The AL is hardly a much better league than the NL.


The NL has won 6 of the last 10. Proof the NL is the better league.

[smootness]

These numbers are so random. 32, 24, and 18.... and it's within a few games of variation. The AL is hardly a much better league than the NL.


The NL has won 6 of the last 10. Proof the NL is the better league.

Sure it's not definitive proof. But he claimed that the World Series was all that mattered, so I was just showing that over time, they've won more of those, too. It's pretty hard to find a measure that backs the NL being as good.

[50PoundHead]

he's constantly trying to flex his internet muscles. bizarre.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/250/i-strike-fear.jpg

[yeezus]

https://media.makeameme.org/created/250/i-strike-fear.jpg

Wow, got the exclusive pic of him in his Friday Night MMA garb. Nice.

[Carp]

Sure it's not definitive proof. But he claimed that the World Series was all that mattered, so I was just showing that over time, they've won more of those, too. It's pretty hard to find a measure that backs the NL being as good.

Well historically, that can mostly be attributed to the Yankees, who had the most money and took advantage of the system in the pre-free agency days. Since free agency started in 1976, the record is 21-18 in favor of the AL. But 3 more WS wins is hardly enough to say the AL has been dominant.

[chipchildress]

f the DH.

but seriously, how can an AL team complain about this? they hire guys specifically to do this. when the NL has to use a DH they have to look at a bench guy to play. this isn't close to fair and yet the AL, who has a guy ready to fill that role is upset when their equally bad hitting pitchers have to bat in an NL city? give me a break.

[Southcack77]

Depends on whether it is our rally thwarted or the other teams. The strategy of working around the pitcher in your line-up and the other teams line-up makes the game much more interesting, and adds several layers of decisions and potential outcomes.

I agree it is a somewhat different game with different considerations, but I'm not not sure why its better that a player who cannot really hit goes up to bat 2-3 times a game to sacrifice or make an out.

[Knucksie]

Cubs reliever lifts a postseason jack. Obviously not something that happens every day, but good argument against the DH.

[Russ2dollas]

Are there any serious industry ppl saying this is going to happen? I haven't seen any national reporter saying there will be a change.

[smootness]

Well historically, that can mostly be attributed to the Yankees, who had the most money and took advantage of the system in the pre-free agency days. Since free agency started in 1976, the record is 21-18 in favor of the AL. But 3 more WS wins is hardly enough to say the AL has been dominant.

I get all this. But first, I didn't go back into the pre-FA days, so I'm not sure why you mentioned them. And second, again, I wasn't trying to prove the AL is a better league than the NL through a slightly better record in recent WS. But since he seems to believe that the winner of the WS in any given year proves that team's league was better, then even by that rationale, the AL has been better more frequently than the NL.

I was basically trying to put the argument on his level, not trying to legitimately argue the point.

[50PoundHead]

Cubs reliever lifts a postseason jack. Obviously not something that happens every day, but good argument against the DH.

I looked up Wood's hitting stats after he did that. He can hit.

[Knucksie]

I looked up Wood's hitting stats after he did that. He can hit.

Not that it's related much, but it reminded me of when the Yankees used Rick Rhoden as DH.

[CrimsonCowboy]

Jake Arrieta just said the National League doesn't need no stinkin' DH

[VirginiaBrave]

Indeed he did.

[cajunrevenge]

Not that it's related much, but it reminded me of when the Yankees used Rick Rhoden as DH.



They could use the DH for Heywood since Arrieta is a better hitter.