VP debate

[weso1]

Pence winning the debate so far, imo. Not surprising. Will have no effect on the election though.

[Runnin]

Pence has that grin while lying thing down pat.

edit: What a great face his has. He looks like a Boy Scout leader or a living G.I. Joe doll.

He can also smile with his eyes while frowning with his mouth.

[Runnin]

The RNC posted on its website that Pence was the winner before the debate actually began. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-rnc-winner-kaine_us_57f43b67e4b04c71d6f0c7bd?section=us_polit ics)

Typical Republican incompetence or internal sabotage? :Bunchie1:

[weso1]

Pence has that grin while lying thing down pat.

edit: What a great face his has. He looks like a Boy Scout leader or a living G.I. Joe doll.

He can also smile with his eyes while frowning with his mouth.

Too democrat.

[Runnin]

Too democrat.
Pence is too Democrat?

[bravesnumberone]

Think Pence won the debate, but don't see any big effect from it. He's really almost the exact opposite of Trump in terms of demeanor and how he can communicate without shouting short, shallow slogans. I know Kaine was trying to fire up the Clinton base, but early on, he came off as desperate.

[Julio3000]

Kaine's first third was legit awful. After that, he clearly won on substance and was sharp and effective. Pence won on style, and that's how these things are judged. He did a miserable job of defending Donald Trump but an effective job of advertising Mike Pence. Draw your own conclusions from that.

[bravesnumberone]

Kaine's first third was legit awful. After that, he clearly won on substance and was sharp and effective. Pence won on style, and that's how these things are judged. He did a miserable job of defending Donald Trump but an effective job of advertising Mike Pence. Draw your own conclusions from that.

Yeah, you would have to think anyone who agrees to run with Trump has bigger ambitions.

[50PoundHead]

Pence is a really cool and composed guy. One of those guys who if he were a serial killer could actually convince his victim that he should allow himself to be killed. Has a very effective communication style. I disagree with most of what comes out of his mouth, but his cool demeanor is certainly a plus for him.

[The Chosen One]

Very low energy.

[Hawk]

I enjoyed the debate. It was nice to actually hear civil political discourse - it's been a while. That being said, I thought the moderator was atrocious and annoying. Lester Holt did a much better job controlling two exceedingly more difficult personalities.

Listened a bit to New England Public Radio this AM and was surprised to hear the broadcasters going off on Kaine, saying that he, 'was playing a role of a candidate he isn't' ... certainly, his interruptions were grating, but his performance was far from that of an attack dog.

Pence impressed me. He and whoever prepped him should be on a plane right now to coach Trump for the remainder of the week. If Trump had delivered a debate performance even half as reserved and thoughtful as Pence did last night it wouldn't surprise me if he, not Hillary, was the one looking down with 6 points of padding.

I read somewhere (likely not a verifiable source) that Nigel Farage had flown in to work with Donald this week. Amusing if true.

[57Brave]

not sure what anyone else saw but I saw Kaine expose the divide between Trump and Pence.

Pense never once used a real fact to defend the head of the ticket and often openly defied the head of the ticket
Isn't that what was once called "going rogue" ?

And of course Kaine pulled out that "Mexican Thing "

[yeezus]

Pence just denied and ignored everything brought up that Trump has said. You can't deny things that are easily verifiable. Well, when you have Trump's base support you can, but others see it differently.

[Hawk]

I actually thought Pence did an admirable job defending Trump considering the circumstances. When Kaine would let him talk he attempted to at least explain where Trump was coming from on certain issues. But he didn't try too hard to push any of it across.

For example, he never 'denied' that Trump lodged an attack against Mexican immigrants, but he did seek to clarify what Trump meant (similarly with the Crimean question and a few other points). Whether or not there is any truthful basis in these reinterpretations is up for the voter to decide, but Pence - at times - decently portrayed Trump as either misunderstood or simply just not a polished pol. He did make sure to contrast that message with Clinton/Kaine, commenting numerous times that Kaine was working with prepared remarks/quips and also furtively making a career politician jab against Kaine.

I'm pretty sure that it was Kellyanne Conway who used the word "gaffe" when characterizing Donald Trump's slips of tongue in the post-debate coverage on NBC. I'm not so sure that's how I would couch things if I was consulting for Trump, but obviously they have raw data which supports the idea that some key segments of the voting populace are willing to look beyond Trump's past comments with a 'surely he can't mean that' attitude.

[goldfly]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14520604_1384534691560029_6484977213894954659_n.jp g?oh=5e938ca9ea9b03dc1d299e73df52ac8e&oe=58721EF3

[yeezus]

love the ad already put out by clinton's team about last night's debate.

[57Brave]

I actually thought Pence did an admirable job defending Trump considering the circumstances. When Kaine would let him talk he attempted to at least explain where Trump was coming from on certain issues. But he didn't try too hard to push any of it across.

For example, he never 'denied' that Trump lodged an attack against Mexican immigrants, but he did seek to clarify what Trump meant (similarly with the Crimean question and a few other points). Whether or not there is any truthful basis in these reinterpretations is up for the voter to decide, but Pence - at times - decently portrayed Trump as either misunderstood or simply just not a polished pol. He did make sure to contrast that message with Clinton/Kaine, commenting numerous times that Kaine was working with prepared remarks/quips and also furtively making a career politician jab against Kaine.

I'm pretty sure that it was Kellyanne Conway who used the word "gaffe" when characterizing Donald Trump's slips of tongue in the post-debate coverage on NBC. I'm not so sure that's how I would couch things if I was consulting for Trump, but obviously they have raw data which supports the idea that some key segments of the voting populace are willing to look beyond Trump's past comments with a 'surely he can't mean that' attitude.

from Amanda Terkel
_________

Pence repeatedly tried to skirt around statements Trump actually said — or simply shook his head and ignored the question.

“I’m happy to defend [Trump],” Pence said.

But Pence rarely actually defended Trump. Instead, he dodged or outright denied his running mate’s statements. Some examples:
RUSSIA

When Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), Hillary Clinton’s running mate, accused Trump of praising Russian president Vladimir Putin as a “great leader,” Pence denied it and called Putin a “small and bullying leader.” But Trump has repeatedly praised Putin.

When Kaine said that Trump recently claimed Putin was not going into Ukraine, Pence denied it. But Trump did say, “He’s not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He’s not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down. You can take it anywhere you want.” Putin took the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014.

Pence himself also recently said, “I think it’s inarguable that Vladimir Putin has been a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been in this country.”
NUCLEAR WEAPONS

When Kaine challenged Pence to defend Trump’s comment that more nations should get nuclear weapons, Pence said “he never said that.” But Trump did.
TAXES

When Kaine pointed out that Trump had once promised to release his tax returns, Pence replied, “He said he will do it.” Trump has repeatedly said he can’t release his returns because he is being audited by the IRS. (The IRS has said nothing prevents him from releasing them.) There is absolutely no evidence that Trump will actually release his returns. His son, Donald Trump Jr., has admitted that there’s a more political reason the campaign is not releasing the returns: It would be a distraction and create too many “questions.”
IMMIGRATION

Kaine said Trump wants to have a “deportation force”: “They want to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people.” Pence called Kaine’s statement “nonsense.” Last year, Trump himself used the term “deportation force” in an interview with MSNBC’s “Morning Joe”: “You’re going to have a deportation force, and you’re going to do it humanely. And you’re going to bring the country – and frankly, the people, because you have some excellent wonderful people, some fantastic people that have been here for a long period of time.”
MEXICANS

Pence tried to defend Trump’s comments about Mexicans after Kaine pointed out that the GOP presidential candidate has called immigrants from the country “rapists.”

“He also said, ‘many of them are good people,’” Pence replied.

Trump’s actual quote last year was: “When Mexico sends its people they’re not sending their best. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.”
ABORTION

When Kaine said that Trump had said women should be punished for abortion, Pence said, “Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that punished women who made the heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy.” But Trump did say that women who have abortions should be punished
.................................................. ..........................

[57Brave]

PENCE: Senator, you’ve whipped out that Mexican thing again. He — look…



So what made the Pence comment hit a nerve? The unzipped vulgarity had plenty to do with it. As did the maligning of 33.7 million Mexican-Americans, two-thirds of whom were born here.

http://billmoyers.com/story/two-white-guys-mexican-thing-debate/#.V_VEjFTi7Dc.twitter

......

Don't know what exactly it was that Pence won ---

[yeezus]

PENCE: Senator, you’ve whipped out that Mexican thing again. He — look…



So what made the Pence comment hit a nerve? The unzipped vulgarity had plenty to do with it. As did the maligning of 33.7 million Mexican-Americans, two-thirds of whom were born here.

http://billmoyers.com/story/two-white-guys-mexican-thing-debate/#.V_VEjFTi7Dc.twitter

......

Don't know what exactly it was that Pence won ---

Kaine accomplished his goal of making Pence attempt to defend trump. In the process Pence ignored some indefensible things and denied other things that are plainly true. I kind of wish we got to hear more about Pence's nutjob policies, but making him find a way to defend trump is more effective.

[57Brave]

Looking long game this is the last we see of Kaine or Pence until one is inaugurated.

Kaine gave HRC the debate/ad line " that even Trumps VP can't support him. "
Let's not for a second think we won't hear that tact in one of the next two debates.


Kaine performed his job to a tee
Pence looked out for Pence.

Pence needed to do what Biden did last cycle. Instead, Pence let his ambition get the better of him

Funny thing is, in 2020 Pence would have to stand next to Huckabee and Santorum.
What's the difference ?

[Hawk]

from Amanda Terkel
_________

Pence repeatedly tried to skirt around statements Trump actually said — or simply shook his head and ignored the question.

“I’m happy to defend [Trump],” Pence said.

But Pence rarely actually defended Trump. Instead, he dodged or outright denied his running mate’s statements. Some examples:
RUSSIA

When Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.), Hillary Clinton’s running mate, accused Trump of praising Russian president Vladimir Putin as a “great leader,” Pence denied it and called Putin a “small and bullying leader.” But Trump has repeatedly praised Putin.

When Kaine said that Trump recently claimed Putin was not going into Ukraine, Pence denied it. But Trump did say, “He’s not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He’s not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down. You can put it down. You can take it anywhere you want.” Putin took the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014.

Pence himself also recently said, “I think it’s inarguable that Vladimir Putin has been a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been in this country.”
NUCLEAR WEAPONS

When Kaine challenged Pence to defend Trump’s comment that more nations should get nuclear weapons, Pence said “he never said that.” But Trump did.
TAXES

When Kaine pointed out that Trump had once promised to release his tax returns, Pence replied, “He said he will do it.” Trump has repeatedly said he can’t release his returns because he is being audited by the IRS. (The IRS has said nothing prevents him from releasing them.) There is absolutely no evidence that Trump will actually release his returns. His son, Donald Trump Jr., has admitted that there’s a more political reason the campaign is not releasing the returns: It would be a distraction and create too many “questions.”
IMMIGRATION

Kaine said Trump wants to have a “deportation force”: “They want to go house to house, school to school, business to business, and kick out 16 million people.” Pence called Kaine’s statement “nonsense.” Last year, Trump himself used the term “deportation force” in an interview with MSNBC’s “Morning Joe”: “You’re going to have a deportation force, and you’re going to do it humanely. And you’re going to bring the country – and frankly, the people, because you have some excellent wonderful people, some fantastic people that have been here for a long period of time.”
MEXICANS

Pence tried to defend Trump’s comments about Mexicans after Kaine pointed out that the GOP presidential candidate has called immigrants from the country “rapists.”

“He also said, ‘many of them are good people,’” Pence replied.

Trump’s actual quote last year was: “When Mexico sends its people they’re not sending their best. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.”
ABORTION

When Kaine said that Trump had said women should be punished for abortion, Pence said, “Donald Trump and I would never support legislation that punished women who made the heartbreaking choice to end a pregnancy.” But Trump did say that women who have abortions should be punished
.................................................. ..........................

Where was this published? Oh, let me google ... the Huffington Post. Please, for your own intellectual sanity, stop reading drivel. It's SEO clickbait.

I don't care whether or not you agree with Pence, hate Trump, or love Clinton ... that article is factually incorrect and doesn't ever really give justice to Pence's positions except like 3 quotes at the end when the author ran out of misrepresentations to recall.

From last night (my summarizations):

Pence on Putin: Said that his comments were misconstrued, offered the correction that he believed Putin had done more for his country on the global stage than Obama. Went further than Trump to pointedly criticize Putin. = Not a denial.
Pence on Trump and the Ukraine: Said that Trump was aware of the Crimean situation, was talking about future encroachments. = Not a denial.
Pence on Nuclear Weapons: Attempted to reign in overstatements and overexaggerations about Trump's comments on South Korea and Japan getting access to nuclear weapons. = Not a denial.
Pence on Trump's Mexican comment: Pointed out that Trump's comments were not directed at all Mexican immigrants


My point: Pence didn't just sit there and offer rote denials. He did have responses that, prepared or otherwise, directly addressed the attacks. He also levied a few of his own. One of my favorites was, 'Senator Kaine, if our sons had done what Hillary Clinton did with her e-mails they would've been court-martialed." Of course, the moderator from hell talked over that entire exchange, which had value for both campaigns.

As I iterated before, whether or not people chose to believe Pence is another story entirely but let's at least undertake a full evaluation of the facts.

[Hawk]

As did the maligning of 33.7 million Mexican-Americans, two-thirds of whom were born here.

If we're going to play the PC game, what do you have to say about Kaine interrupting, interjecting, and ignoring the first (female) Asian-American to moderate a national debate?

[57Brave]

WRONG
.......

Trump needs to put a dent in the LAtino coalition forming around HRC,

I see no outrage from Asian-americans over Kaine talking over the moderator.
Doubt it will lose HRC a vote.
"whip out the Mexican thing " which I thought just s funny stuid thing to say -- doesn't look like it is getting the traction among Latino Americans Pence was sent out there to recruit.

I forgot, you are a Putin apologist.
Correct me if I am wrong
.....

Did you read the Bill Moyers piece ?
It included this

That this was the seventh use of the term “criminal aliens” in the evening — all by Trump’s running mate, who was leaning on the term as an insulting synonym for immigrants (who actually commit fewer crimes than US-born Americans), probably helped make “that Mexican thing” an instant meme. So did Pence’s ludicrous suggestion that Trump’s “good people” disclaimer — tossed into a rant about immigrants when he launched his campaign — was sincere. In case you need a refresher, here’s what the tax-averse billionaire had to say:

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people.

It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably — probably — from the Middle East. But we don’t know. Because we have no protection and we have no competence, we don’t know what’s happening. And it’s got to stop and it’s got to stop fast.”

[57Brave]

now Pence's performance last night is beginning to make sense


Todd Zwillich

‏@toddzwillich
PA GOP source heard from mult pastors: "Evangelicals believe God is using Trump to deliver Pence to the WH, & that Trump will be eliminated"

[weso1]

Why bother trying to defend indefensible foibles? Neither candidate really tried that hard to defend their running partner's most egregious sins. Both candidates were on offense for the most part. The difference is that Pence is good at it and Kaine isn't. Kaine came across as Howard Deanish to me. Pence reminds me of the husband of the Pioneer woman from the food network.

[57Brave]

It was a VP debate where there are no winners and losers. The object is to move the ball up the field for the top of the ticket.
Pence worked for himself toward a 2020 run for POTUS

No more or less

[The Chosen One]

now Pence's performance last night is beginning to make sense


Todd Zwillich

‏@toddzwillich
PA GOP source heard from mult pastors: "Evangelicals believe God is using Trump to deliver Pence to the WH, & that Trump will be eliminated"




lmao

[Julio3000]

Were Trump to be elected, I'd bet real money (dollars, pesos, yuan, or rubles) that he wouldn't finish a term. So the pastors are probably on to something there, divine intervention or no.

[Hawk]

http://www.vox.com/2016/10/5/13172448/tim-kaine-interrupt-quijano-sexism

[50PoundHead]

Where was this published? Oh, let me google ... the Huffington Post. Please, for your own intellectual sanity, stop reading drivel. It's SEO clickbait.

I don't care whether or not you agree with Pence, hate Trump, or love Clinton ... that article is factually incorrect and doesn't ever really give justice to Pence's positions except like 3 quotes at the end when the author ran out of misrepresentations to recall.

From last night (my summarizations):

Pence on Putin: Said that his comments were misconstrued, offered the correction that he believed Putin had done more for his country on the global stage than Obama. Went further than Trump to pointedly criticize Putin. = Not a denial.
Pence on Trump and the Ukraine: Said that Trump was aware of the Crimean situation, was talking about future encroachments. = Not a denial.
Pence on Nuclear Weapons: Attempted to reign in overstatements and overexaggerations about Trump's comments on South Korea and Japan getting access to nuclear weapons. = Not a denial.
Pence on Trump's Mexican comment: Pointed out that Trump's comments were not directed at all Mexican immigrants


My point: Pence didn't just sit there and offer rote denials. He did have responses that, prepared or otherwise, directly addressed the attacks. He also levied a few of his own. One of my favorites was, 'Senator Kaine, if our sons had done what Hillary Clinton did with her e-mails they would've been court-martialed." Of course, the moderator from hell talked over that entire exchange, which had value for both campaigns.

As I iterated before, whether or not people chose to believe Pence is another story entirely but let's at least undertake a full evaluation of the facts.

This is the kind of crap that really gets to me. Putin is a friggin' unprincipled undemocratic stooge. It's easy to do whatever when there is no meaningful opposition to what you want to do. I'm sure Obama would have done a lot of things--likely some of them bad--if all he had to do was wave his hand and the metaphorical waters would part. I can't think of any reasonable American who would switch places with a Russian citizen. Ours is a system of laws, not of men. It seems that a lot of conservatives get sticky pants over the prospect of crippling our democratic institutions.

[yeezus]

True, Pence does carry on the evangelicals belief that anyone not like them shouldn't have the same rights.

[cajunrevenge]

One of these two will be President because I bet there's impeachment **** going on within 6 months of inauguration no matter which Democrat wins.

[yeezus]

One of these two will be President because I bet there's impeachment **** going on within 6 months of inauguration no matter which Democrat wins.

what is clinton going to be impeached for?

[57Brave]

# Mike Pence won Debate



Jenna Johnson Verified account
‏@wpjenna

Mike Pence asked point-blank if the campaign's position is still to ban Muslims based on their religion. "Of course not," he replies.

[BedellBrave]

Responses in this thread are pretty predictable aren't they?

[57Brave]

Responses in this thread are pretty predictable aren't they?

including the above quote ?

[BedellBrave]

including the above quote ?


Maybe.

[weso1]

True, Pence does carry on the evangelicals belief that anyone not like them shouldn't have the same rights.

That's a pretty bigoted statement.

[goldfly]

True, Pence does carry on the evangelicals belief that anyone not like them shouldn't have the same rights.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/honey-true.gif

[goldfly]

what is clinton going to be impeached for?

for being Hitlary obviously

[cajunrevenge]

We should do a Chop Country debate. I think I could defend Donald pretty well.

[57Brave]

I wanna be Gary Johnson

[cajunrevenge]

Yeah I wouldn't want to try and defend Hillary either.

[acesfull86]

Yeah I wouldn't want to try and defend Hillary either.

Or it could be his best monochromatic orange pantsuit is at the dry cleaners

[yeezus]

That's a pretty bigoted statement.

pence's beliefs are far more bigoted.

[yeezus]

still waiting for what hillary would be impeached for...someone here def knows something the FBI doesn't. and can def find something the multiple GOP-lead witch hunt task forces couldn't.


meanwhile dumbass donald continues to fall behind in polls...him talking on a national stage may have been the nail in the coffin. crazy, isn't it?

[57Brave]

Not really (R) if not for dog whistle politics and abortion they have no policy that fits.
Trump and dog whistle beat Cruz and the abortion guys. It's not that complicated.

People want candidates that will fill the pot holes and catch the dogs.

For that reason (R) has no intentions of addressing abortion.

[57Brave]

cause it gets people in Red America elected to Congress

[cajunrevenge]

pence's beliefs are far more bigoted.


I prefer the term criminally insane.


still waiting for what hillary would be impeached for...someone here def knows something the FBI doesn't. and can def find something the multiple GOP-lead witch hunt task forces couldn't.


meanwhile dumbass donald continues to fall behind in polls...him talking on a national stage may have been the nail in the coffin. crazy, isn't it?

Probably like Bill it will be purgury. I was assuming it would be a future event so it's hard to say what that would be. The hunt will be on from the day she wins.

[yeezus]

I prefer the term criminally insane.



Probably like Bill it will be purgury. I was assuming it would be a future event so it's hard to say what that would be. The hunt will be on from the day she wins.

The hunt has been on for her entire political career.

[cajunrevenge]

Exactly, I wasn't trying to get into the argument of whether she deserves it. It's a moot point to me because she should hang for treason with the rest of the prohibitionist in my opinion.

[yeezus]

Exactly, I wasn't trying to get into the argument of whether she deserves it. It's a moot point to me because she should hang for treason with the rest of the prohibitionist in my opinion.

and you should be hanged for having a picture of freddie in a nats hat, but i didn't say anything did i?

[cajunrevenge]

Is Freddie in a Nats hat responsible for mass incarceration of millions of people. People who lie and deceive in order to strip millions of people of basic human rights are traitors to their country just as the Nazi were to Germany. The war on drugs is the Holocaust in slow motion.

[yeezus]

Is Freddie in a Nats hat responsible for mass incarceration of millions of people. People who lie and deceive in order to strip millions of people of basic human rights are traitors to their country just as the Nazi were to Germany. The war on drugs is the Holocaust in slow motion.

in fact it is responsible.

[57Brave]

But the fact remains that the rules are the rules, and as they exist, there is usually little penalty for lying incessantly as long as you do it with proper body language and a reassuringly manly baritone.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/10/pence-lost-the-debate-because-he-lied-about-the-wrong-stuff.html


////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

There is, however, an exception to that rule: You should not lie about things that can be easily disproven with short video clips