Tigers possibly pushing to trade Upton

[bravesfanforlife88]

According to mlbtraderumors they were pushing to trade him this season, and were past the exploring offers stage.

They would like to get rid of his salary. At 5 years and around $110m remaining, I think it'd be a good deal. I'd see if we could package Verlander and Upton picking up salary. Then trade neck.

Inciarte cf
Swanson ss
Freeman 1b
Kemp lf
Upton rf
Albies/Peterson 2b
Garcia 3b
Flowers C

Teheran
Verlander
Folty
Wisler/Blair/etc.
FA

[smootness]

They're not going to dump Upton and Verlander for nothing.

And I do not want Upton.

[zbhargrove]

The Upton ship has sailed... and he has a no trade clause to 20+ teams... I would wager that the Braves are one of those teams

[bravesfanforlife88]

The braves were in the running for Upton score he signed. I don't think the ship has sailed.

And of course we wouldn't be giving up nothing. But if we were able to hold on to most of the blue chip prospects by taking on salary, it is a win win.

Upton still has the ability to carry a team for a month or so. Verlander is better than most of our pitchers outside of Teheran

[Oklahomabrave]

The braves were in the running for Upton score he signed. I don't think the ship has sailed.

And of course we wouldn't be giving up nothing. But if we were able to hold on to most of the blue chip prospects by taking on salary, it is a win win.

Upton still has the ability to carry a team for a month or so. Verlander is better than most of our pitchers outside of Teheran

Verlander is better than all of our pitchers, including Teheran, by a good margain.

[50PoundHead]

Inciarte would have to do distance training for all the running he'd have to do to cover for those two potted plants.

[Oklahomabrave]

Really don't want Upton for 5 years. Either he HS a great year next year and opts out, or doesen't and probably isn't worth the contract.

[zbhargrove]

The braves were in the running for Upton score he signed. I don't think the ship has sailed.

And of course we wouldn't be giving up nothing. But if we were able to hold on to most of the blue chip prospects by taking on salary, it is a win win.

Upton still has the ability to carry a team for a month or so. Verlander is better than most of our pitchers outside of Teheran

"In the running" may be a bit of a stretch... basically the report said the Braves reached out to him and briefly talked about the potential of a 6 year deal and there was no fit. No offer was even made.

[nsacpi]

Kemp for Upton

[Knucksie]

We should try and get Jason back too.

[striker42]

Kemp for Upton

Only if the Upton is Kate.

[VirginiaBrave]

I don't want Upton back in the clubhouse!!!

[rico43]

Upton was not a clubhouse problem. He wasn't an anything problem, except for $$$. But I want to give Kemp a chance to show up in shape next spring and reign hell upon those to doubted he could come back.

Upton was fine when he was a Brave. But this team has moved on, and Kemp is already an essential piece.

[VirginiaBrave]

Can't convince me, Rico. I didn't like either one of them in ATL. Justin clanked too many in the outfield for me.

[rico43]

Can't convince me, Rico. I didn't like either one of them in ATL. Justin clanked too many in the outfield for me.

Braves have a long, glorious history of clanking left fielders. Upton takes his place among them. But left field isn't the clubhouse. But this isn't a debate; I don't want him back, either.

[Knucksie]

Only if the Upton is Kate.

That'll get the Verlander fantasies going again.

[GovClintonTyree]

That'll get the Verlander fantasies going again.

I got fantasies about both of them. His involve baseball.

[Carp]

Pass on Upton. Is there that much difference between the expected productions of Kemp and Upton? And Kemp is quite a bit cheaper with fewER years.

[cajunrevenge]

I think the Tigers are counting their blessings Justin had a big second half and are hoping to dump his contract before it becomes untradeable again.

[Russ2dollas]

Can we buy low on heyward now?

[rico43]

Can we buy low on heyward now?

Any Cub who is on the team that wins the series will have a special Touched by God surcharge.

[nsacpi]

Pass on Upton. Is there that much difference between the expected productions of Kemp and Upton? And Kemp is quite a bit cheaper with fewER years.

To me its close to a wash in terms of trade value. That's why I suggested it. I think we'd come out slightly ahead, but not much.

[Russ2dollas]

Any Cub who is on the team that wins the series will have a special Touched by God surcharge.

They aren't playing him. I know what you're saying. If they lose they'll want a scape goat.
I'm not a huge heyward guy and the contract is large. But he's someone that might be had in a salary dump and still has upside.

[Ampere]

They aren't playing him. I know what you're saying. If they lose they'll want a scape goat.
I'm not a huge heyward guy and the contract is large. But he's someone that might be had in a salary dump and still has upside.


They're playing him most of the time, they just didn't against Kershaw. He'll play against the Indians starters since they throw right-handed.

Assuming Chicago would eat some of the salary, I agree it'd be smart to buy low on him since there's a decent chance he rebounds next year, but he has a full no-trade clause and I doubt he wants to return to Atlanta.

[Hudson2]

No way in hell would I touch Heywards contract. I'm not gonna pay on what could be one day when it hasn't happened yet.

[UNCBlue012]

No way in hell would I touch Heywards contract. I'm not gonna pay on what could be one day when it hasn't happened yet.

Yeah, no way. But, I do look into trading for JUP. Someone mentioned it earlier, but I'd be all about a large-scale trade for Upton and Verlander.

Inciarte CF
Swanson SS
Freeman 1B
JUP LF
Kemp RF
Flowers/McCann/Ramos? Whoever C
Ruiz/Garcia 3B
Verlander RHP
Albies 2B

Verlander, Teheran, Folty, Wisler, Newcomb.

[Hudson2]

I'd be down for something like that depending on the money.

[smootness]

Upton's BB rate is dropping while his K rate is climbing. That has meant that his BA and OBP are dropping while his pop remains about the same. No thanks. I don't want any part of that, especially since his defense is now consistently mediocre to bad.

I'd much rather just run Mallex out there.

[Chico]

Trading for Upton would be a lose lose situation. He has a good year and opts out of his contract or he sucks and you're stuck with him.

The only positive would be getting a pick, but I think opt outs and compensatory picks are going to be altered in the new CBA.

[Nerfherders]

No to Upton. Too many ice-cold streaks in his game. And they get longer every season.

[Enscheff]

Verlander makes some sense as a trade target, but he just put up a 6+ WAR season. His "terrible" seasons were 1 and 2 WAR, and he is still a 200+ inning workhorse. He will not come cheap in terms of prospects, so I seriously doubt the Braves part with the talent required to acquire him.

JUp makes zero sense as a trade target to anyone who has been paying attention to the Braves over the last 3 years.

[clvclv]

Upton's BB rate is dropping while his K rate is climbing. That has meant that his BA and OBP are dropping while his pop remains about the same. No thanks. I don't want any part of that, especially since his defense is now consistently mediocre to bad.

I'd much rather just run Mallex out there.

Not to mention that we're committed to Kemp for a shorter period in the event J-Up chooses NOT to opt out - then we'd get the inevitable bad years at the end.

Also, depending on the development of Ruiz, Peterson, Demeritte, Riley, Maitan, and several others we're potentially going to have several other 3B/corner OF options knocking on the door before Kemp's deal is even up - they can't all play 3B, and I'm pretty sure 1B, 2B, and SS are spoken for for the foreseeable future. If they do target a 3B "answer" (that's not in the system) this winter or next, there could be quite a few options to replace Kemp for less than $20 million per.

The real wildcard in all this (to me) is Maitan. If he's really as good as advertised and rockets through the system like some of the recent international signings (Moncada, etc.), he's probably got plenty of arm to step in for Markakis when his deal ends - assuming 3B is being handled capably. If he becomes our version of Betts or Moncada, that leaves a lot of guys battling for ABs at 3B and LF within a couple years.

(For those slobbering all over themselves waiting in the weeds to pounce - yes those are big IFs, but they're also possibilities. Since Callis already has him potentially becoming a Top 10 prospect by the end of next season, there's really no reason he can't be at least discussed in future plans.)

[clvclv]

Can we buy low on heyward now?

Why?

[depley]

the only reason a team should have to trade for Verlander is if he is the missing piece to compete for a championship next year. Sorry to tell you the Braves are not there yet. I still do not see this team as a real threat till 2019 at the earliest. After that the rest of the NL better watch out.

[Knucksie]

No to Upton. Too many ice-cold streaks in his game. And they get longer every season.

Yeah, his 2 hot months are usually staggered too.

[Horsehide Harry]

the only reason a team should have to trade for Verlander is if he is the missing piece to compete for a championship next year. Sorry to tell you the Braves are not there yet. I still do not see this team as a real threat till 2019 at the earliest. After that the rest of the NL better watch out.

I agree. But, pretending to compete hurts your ability to maximize talent acquisition for when you really should be able to compete. I'm OK with competing in 2017 if it happens organically without diminishing a maximum effort to bring in young talent, but I don't think that's what we'll see. I think we will see some "play pretend" moves for the masses and some moves not done that should be also for the masses so the illusion of competitive baseball can be presented.

Will that have a long term negative effect? It's hard to say because you can't see the future. After all, what good is an early draft pick if the player chosen is a flop? What good is a 1 for 3 talent trade if the net value of the three never develops to be better than the net value of the 1?

But, I point to Chicago. The Cubs had been building in a reloading fashion under Hendry, essentially win the Division, be horrible for 2-3 years, win the Division, be horrible...never getting close to the big prize. So they brought in Epstein in late 2011 to rebuild and build for the long term. The Cubs finished 5th in their Division in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 then jumped to 3rd in 2015 and finished 1st and are on the edge of a WS Championship in 2016. AND, they are positioned to be good for a while. And it hasn't been by them simply spending their way there. They have made some good use of their cash adding Lester, Lackey and bringing back Hammel but have also made some dumb moves by splurging on Heyward.

The real core of their team came from some shrewd trades, excellent drafting (especially at the premium picks) and some hole filling FA signings. And it wasn't done overnight, was not a reload in any way. They took the team to the metal and built it back up over the span of about 5 years.

Too look at some of their moves:
Montero: before 2015 season in trade for Jeferson Mejia and Zach Goldy who have never been heard from again.
Rizzo: from SD for Kyung Min Na???, and Andrew Cashner
Zobrist, Fowler, Heyward: Added as FA entering 2016 because the core was in place and these FA were considered what was needed to finish the team.
Russell: came with McKinney and Straily for Hammel andSamardzija (they then re-signed Hammel).
Bryant: 1st Rd, 2nd pick, 2013
Baez: 1/9/2011
Schwarber: 1/4/2014
Almora: 1/6/2012
Soler: Int FA signing from Cuba 2012
Contreras: Int FA 2009
Ross: FA 2015
Lester: FA 2015
Hendricks: FA 2015
Arrieta: came with Strop in 2013 from Baltimore for Clevenger and Feldman
Lackey: FA 2016
Rondon: 2013 Rule 5 from Cleveland
Chapman: 2016 in season trade with Yanks

It took them a while, but they were patient and are now positioned well to be good for several more years

[clvclv]

I agree. But, pretending to compete hurts your ability to maximize talent acquisition for when you really should be able to compete. I'm OK with competing in 2017 if it happens organically without diminishing a maximum effort to bring in young talent, but I don't think that's what we'll see. I think we will see some "play pretend" moves for the masses and some moves not done that should be also for the masses so the illusion of competitive baseball can be presented.

Will that have a long term negative effect? It's hard to say because you can't see the future. After all, what good is an early draft pick if the player chosen is a flop? What good is a 1 for 3 talent trade if the net value of the three never develops to be better than the net value of the 1?

But, I point to Chicago. The Cubs had been building in a reloading fashion under Hendry, essentially win the Division, be horrible for 2-3 years, win the Division, be horrible...never getting close to the big prize. So they brought in Epstein in late 2011 to rebuild and build for the long term. The Cubs finished 5th in their Division in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 then jumped to 3rd in 2015 and finished 1st and are on the edge of a WS Championship in 2016. AND, they are positioned to be good for a while. And it hasn't been by them simply spending their way there. They have made some good use of their cash adding Lester, Lackey and bringing back Hammel but have also made some dumb moves by splurging on Heyward.

The real core of their team came from some shrewd trades, excellent drafting (especially at the premium picks) and some hole filling FA signings. And it wasn't done overnight, was not a reload in any way. They took the team to the metal and built it back up over the span of about 5 years.

Too look at some of their moves:
Montero: before 2015 season in trade for Jeferson Mejia and Zach Goldy who have never been heard from again. (Third-string Catcher who thought he'd be left off the postseason roster.)
Rizzo: from SD for Kyung Min Na???, and Andrew Cashner (Big-time win - even though Cubs fans hated it at the time.)
Zobrist, Fowler, Heyward: Added as FA entering 2016 because the core was in place and these FA were considered what was needed to finish the team. (The $184 Million Man is a platoon player at best. Has such a long way to go to prove his contract is as good as Markakis'. No one here wanted to go that long or high for Zobrist. Fowler was pure luck because of QO rules - should've at least cost them at least $7.8 million more.)
Russell: came with McKinney and Straily for Hammel andSamardzija (they then re-signed Hammel). (Still not nearly as good as Swanson, Inciarte, and Blair for Miller.)
Bryant: 1st Rd, 2nd pick, 2013 (Hursh: 1st Rd, 31st pick - WREN)
Baez: 1/9/2011 (Gilmartin 1st Rd, 28th pick - WREN)
Schwarber: 1/4/2014 (Davidson 1st Rd, 32nd pick - WREN)
Almora: 1/6/2012 (Sims 1st RD, 21st pick - jury's still out.)
Soler: Int FA signing from Cuba 2012 (1.1 WAR for $30 million thus far.)
Contreras: Int FA 2009 (Big-time winner.)
Ross: FA 2015 (Similar to Pierzynski signing - brought in to be a bit player. Certainly liked better than A. J., but not for production.)
Lester: FA 2015 (Most people here didn't want him.)
Hendricks: FA 2015
Arrieta: came with Strop in 2013 from Baltimore for Clevenger and Feldman
Lackey: FA 2016
Rondon: 2013 Rule 5 from Cleveland
Chapman: 2016 in season trade with Yanks (A "rental" that cost them a Top 25 prospect on some lists - this board would absolutely melt down if the Braves' brass made that sort of trade. People here are still sore about Wainright for Drew - not that that's not understandable, but still.)

It took them a while, but they were patient and are now positioned well to be good for several more years


They've made some really good moves, but everyone's a little generous when they proclaim Theo and Jed as "miracle workers", and most act like they've made no mistakes. The only point I'm making is that to get to where they are today, Cubs' fans had to put up with losing 464 games between 2010 and 2014 - ~93 per season. Lots of people who are still Braves fans are already teetering as it is - as fickle as the Atlanta fanbase has typically been, I'm afraid a five year stretch like that would send attendance levels back to where they were in the 80s. It's far easier to be patient when it's been so long since you've been relevant - fans are much more willing to buy into "give us five more years to turn this thing around".

[Horsehide Harry]

They've made some really good moves, but everyone's a little generous when they proclaim Theo and Jed as "miracle workers", and most act like they've made no mistakes. The only point I'm making is that to get to where they are today, Cubs' fans had to put up with losing 464 games between 2010 and 2014 - ~93 per season. Lots of people who are still Braves fans are already teetering as it is - as fickle as the Atlanta fanbase has typically been, I'm afraid a five year stretch like that would send attendance levels back to where they were in the 80s. It's far easier to be patient when it's been so long since you've been relevant - fans are much more willing to buy into "give us five more years to turn this thing around".

I don't get where your bolded response means anything in regards to what the Cubs did. It seems you are confused that I am saying that the Braves should have done what the Cubs did, when they did it. but that's not the case at all. My point was that the Cubs chose a path and stuck with it and did fairly well and after 5 years they are in the WS AND look poised to be back several more times. Have they made mistakes? Sure. To me, the biggest was the Heyward signing which appear to be a matter of luxury purchase - hey, we have the money, let's get Heyward, bring his value to RF and screw the Cards while we are at it. They would have been much better with Soler in RF all year on a cost per performance basis. But, that one bad move didn't send them back to the drawing board. They built a team that was talented AND deep because they didn't cut corners to get where they wanted to go. Even as a ML club and having shipped out some talent for what they considered the final piece in making them a WS contender in Chapman, they still have a relatively strong farm and have young talent all over the field at the ML level that will be under control for several years.

OTOH, Arizona tried to short circuit their rebuild and it failed miserably and now they are back at the drawing board. They went big for their ACE (probably OK) and traded for another arm with young talent that they REALLY couldn't afford to give up.

As for the Braves and their fans, I think it's more about the businesses and the funders of the new stadium being appeased. If the Braves get off to a slow start next year, attendance will fall. But the novelty of the new stadium will be it's own draw for a while. What will really be a disaster is if three years into the new stadium the Braves suddenly find themselves struggling for .500 with a projected future of another rebuild. That's the risk you take when you try to cut corners on a rebuild.

[clvclv]

I don't get where your bolded response means anything in regards to what the Cubs did. It seems you are confused that I am saying that the Braves should have done what the Cubs did, when they did it. but that's not the case at all. My point was that the Cubs chose a path and stuck with it and did fairly well and after 5 years they are in the WS AND look poised to be back several more times. Have they made mistakes? Sure. To me, the biggest was the Heyward signing which appear to be a matter of luxury purchase - hey, we have the money, let's get Heyward, bring his value to RF and screw the Cards while we are at it. They would have been much better with Soler in RF all year on a cost per performance basis. But, that one bad move didn't send them back to the drawing board. They built a team that was talented AND deep because they didn't cut corners to get where they wanted to go. Even as a ML club and having shipped out some talent for what they considered the final piece in making them a WS contender in Chapman, they still have a relatively strong farm and have young talent all over the field at the ML level that will be under control for several years.

OTOH, Arizona tried to short circuit their rebuild and it failed miserably and now they are back at the drawing board. They went big for their ACE (probably OK) and traded for another arm with young talent that they REALLY couldn't afford to give up.

As for the Braves and their fans, I think it's more about the businesses and the funders of the new stadium being appeased. If the Braves get off to a slow start next year, attendance will fall. But the novelty of the new stadium will be it's own draw for a while. What will really be a disaster is if three years into the new stadium the Braves suddenly find themselves struggling for .500 with a projected future of another rebuild. That's the risk you take when you try to cut corners on a rebuild.


Not confused at all, and I'm not disagreeing with your point in the least - mainly just trying to point out the fact that EVERY rebuild/retool/whatever someone wants to call it is always entirely different and that you're right (IMO) about needing the commitment and discipline to stick with it "no matter what".

You'll never get an argument from me about Heyward being a luxury, I've been beating that drum since the day he was traded. He just happened to be one the Braves couldn't afford (and one the Cards chose not to). It still amazes me how many people around here want to spin that into being a "Heyward Hater" (depending on who makes that point). My only point about him has been that that's a *elluva lot of money to pay someone that doesn't bring a whole lot more to the table than other fourth OFs. Is he better on defense than a lot of those guys? Sure. But $150 million better?

The main point I was making about the picks was the philosophy at the time - I don't condemn Wren for his philosophy UNLESS he was told that the salary "cap" he was given was set in stone and non-negotiable. He did a great job of building a "contender" when he was here (and you could make the argument that neither the Uggla nor the Melvin signings were worse than the Cubs' Heyward signing). The thing is, if he was told that the money wasn't there to keep that contender in place beyond their contracts at the time, his draft strategy really was awful - even though the team never got high picks. They should've been looking for high-upside "replacements" rather than looking for players who might be bit players within a couple seasons.

JMO, but we're pretty much saying the same thing about Arizona's chasing an "Ace" - that's something the vast majority of teams have to do when they get their chance (no matter where their rebuild schedule stands). If you have the chance to go get a Lester/Greinke/whomever, you pretty much have to get them when circumstances allow. If the Braves could have landed Lester when he wasn't going to cost them a pick, they should have done everything they could to get him since those chances just don't come along very often. Just as you mention, the really bad move was giving up all that talent to land a #2 (and a not very proven one at that) - if adding Greinke while taking him away from the Dodgers wasn't going to get them past L. A., they probably weren't going to get past them anyway.

The differences in what we're saying (to me, anyway) are pretty minor. As a Cubs' fan, I'd have no problem with giving up Torres to get Chapman. Thing is, many folks around here go nuts when you talk about giving up high-level prospects to get that big piece (Teixeira deal, every time anyone's mentioned wanting to finally go get an "Ace" or big bat, etc.). I just think it's interesting to see people call that a "great move" when it hasn't paid off yet. If they happen to lose to Cleveland, there will be Cubs fans coming out of the woodwork to scream that they sure would have been better off if they'd kept Torres to use in a trade to replace Arrieta if he walks.

[Horsehide Harry]

I think we agree on just about everything.

I would say that what the Cubs did was wait on major FA signings (and expensive trades like Chapman) until there was no doubt that they were contenders. They knew they had the building blocks in place with young talent at the ML level in most places, and had ANOTHER wave very close in the minors, before they brought the checkbook out. When they brought out the checkbook, they did it with a vengeance. But, Epstein didn't come in late 2011 and immediately start throwing money around. He didn't in 2012 or 2013 either. It was before the 2015 season when they started spending the cash.

[cajunrevenge]

Our rebuild was Jumpstarted because we had valuable assets to trade. I don't expect to see any major FA signings or Tex type trades thus off season though.

[Southcack77]

I think the Braves will have to be more flexible with some names that people have already pencilled into the starting lineup for the next ten years, who haven't really done much yet.

Even some of the guys who might be very good players might not be more valuable than what they can be traded for. I love Albies, I think he could be a very good player. But perhaps an OBP 2B is not the most valuable way the Braves can deploy his value. Perhaps his highest value is in helping acquiring an Ace. Or a power hitter.

I don't want to trade any of the prospect guys, but sometimes trading value for value is a nice proposition.

[UNCBlue012]

I think the Braves will have to be more flexible with some names that people have already pencilled into the starting lineup for the next ten years, who haven't really done much yet.

Even some of the guys who might be very good players might not be more valuable than what they can be traded for. I love Albies, I think he could be a very good player. But perhaps an OBP 2B is not the most valuable way the Braves can deploy his value. Perhaps his highest value is in helping acquiring an Ace. Or a power hitter.

I don't want to trade any of the prospect guys, but sometimes trading value for value is a nice proposition.

I completely agree. I love Albies and would hate to see him go, but you do have to think about the future and your needs.

[bravesfanMatt]

I think the Braves will have to be more flexible with some names that people have already pencilled into the starting lineup for the next ten years, who haven't really done much yet.

Even some of the guys who might be very good players might not be more valuable than what they can be traded for. I love Albies, I think he could be a very good player. But perhaps an OBP 2B is not the most valuable way the Braves can deploy his value. Perhaps his highest value is in helping acquiring an Ace. Or a power hitter.

I don't want to trade any of the prospect guys, but sometimes trading value for value is a nice proposition.

I couldn't agree with this more. Just glad I don't have to make these decisions. I am a prospect hoarder.

[smootness]

I think the Braves will have to be more flexible with some names that people have already pencilled into the starting lineup for the next ten years, who haven't really done much yet.

Even some of the guys who might be very good players might not be more valuable than what they can be traded for. I love Albies, I think he could be a very good player. But perhaps an OBP 2B is not the most valuable way the Braves can deploy his value. Perhaps his highest value is in helping acquiring an Ace. Or a power hitter.

I don't want to trade any of the prospect guys, but sometimes trading value for value is a nice proposition.

But that's only a potentially good move if Demeritte is capable of approximating Albies' value at 2B. If not, you're just creating one hole to fill another, and given our farm system, the hole at 2B would likely be harder to fill than the hole at SP.

[Chico]

But that's only a potentially good move if Demeritte is capable of approximating Albies' value at 2B. If not, you're just creating one hole to fill another, and given our farm system, the hole at 2B would likely be harder to fill than the hole at SP.

I'm not suggesting trading Albies as he is as close to a sure thing as you can get in a prospect, but we do have a pipeline of 2B options if we chose to go that route.

Jace, Demeritte, Moore, Camargo, Seymour, Dykstra, and eventually Cruz.

There's not a lot of star potential there outside of Demeritte and Cruz, but you could play the numbers and the hot hand for the next few years.

However if you're trading a top 10 prospect it better be for a player of that caliber...someone like a Clint Frazier and I wouldn't even do that straight up.

[yeezus]

Jace, Demeritte, Moore, Camargo, Seymour, Dykstra, and eventually Cruz.



I don't think those guys hold a candle to Albies. If Albies ends up like Jose Ramirez, which I think is very possible, then it would be a mistake to trade him.

[smootness]

I don't think those guys hold a candle to Albies. If Albies ends up like Jose Ramirez, which I think is very possible, then it would be a mistake to trade him.

Oh, I think he can be better than Ramirez.

[yeezus]

Oh, I think he can be better than Ramirez.

He can be, sure. But Ramirez was damn good this year, and their overall numbers could be similar.

[clvclv]

I think the Braves will have to be more flexible with some names that people have already pencilled into the starting lineup for the next ten years, who haven't really done much yet.

Even some of the guys who might be very good players might not be more valuable than what they can be traded for. I love Albies, I think he could be a very good player. But perhaps an OBP 2B is not the most valuable way the Braves can deploy his value. Perhaps his highest value is in helping acquiring an Ace. Or a power hitter.

I don't want to trade any of the prospect guys, but sometimes trading value for value is a nice proposition.


I have little doubt that some of these guys will be traded, but don't think there's much chance Albies will be one of them unless it's as part of an absolute monster deal. Short of being able to land a Sale/Archer/Quintana-type, I'm relatively sure he'll be playing 2B alongside Swanson for a long time. Having a combination of Ozzie, Dansby, and Ender up the middle is something some teams can only dream about.

Remember how upset everyone was when Peraza was shipped out? He was traded because Albies was both better, and breathing down his neck.

[UNCBlue012]

I have little doubt that some of these guys will be traded, but don't think there's much chance Albies will be one of them unless it's as part of an absolute monster deal. Short of being able to land a Sale/Archer/Quintana-type, I'm relatively sure he'll be playing 2B alongside Swanson for a long time. Having a combination of Ozzie, Dansby, and Ender up the middle is something some teams can only dream about.

Remember how upset everyone was when Peraza was shipped out? He was traded because Albies was both better, and breathing down his neck.

I don't think anyone would argue this unless Sale/Archer/Quintana were a target. If we traded him in a deal for anything less than a bonified Ace, our whole front office needs to be immediately fired.

[sturg33]

Why?

Do you not understand what "buy low" means?

[Enscheff]

I think the Braves will have to be more flexible with some names that people have already pencilled into the starting lineup for the next ten years, who haven't really done much yet.

Even some of the guys who might be very good players might not be more valuable than what they can be traded for. I love Albies, I think he could be a very good player. But perhaps an OBP 2B is not the most valuable way the Braves can deploy his value. Perhaps his highest value is in helping acquiring an Ace. Or a power hitter.

I don't want to trade any of the prospect guys, but sometimes trading value for value is a nice proposition.

You may have a point. Albies may be more valuable to the Braves if he is traded as a SS rather than keeping him to play 2B. It's in the same vein as trading one of Mallex or Inciarte to be a starting CFer somewhere else rather than letting Mallex rot on the bench or in AAA, or Inciarte as a RFer.

It's all about maximizing value, and if they can get more value from Albies by trading him to a team that wants a franchise SS, I would be all for it. The return would have to be another "can't miss" top 10 position prospect though. No pitchers, and no package of lesser talents.

[clvclv]

Do you not understand what "buy low" means?

Seriously?

Everyone else that read that understood exactly what that meant, yet you don't?

The Braves didn't try to sign him because they thought his contract demands were ridiculous BEFORE the Cubs gave him that contract. Giving up ANY prospect and paying the money left on it is the farthest thing from "buying low" that you can get.

[yeezus]

Do you not understand what "buy low" means?

Yeahhhhhhh paying Heyward the rest of his contract AND giving up prospects for him is buying high, not low.

[Knucksie]

Jason still walks on water. The Cubs wouldn't be where there are without him. Isn't he at least 6.0 WAR?

[sturg33]

Yeahhhhhhh paying Heyward the rest of his contract AND giving up prospects for him is buying high, not low.

Buying low means you get him for cheaper.

If the Cubs ate some of the contract or gave him to us for low level prospects, he'd be an excellent buy low candidate.

Unless you think 2016 is his true self, and not the previous 6 years.

[yeezus]

Buying low means you get him for cheaper.

If the Cubs ate some of the contract or gave him to us for low level prospects, he'd be an excellent buy low candidate.

Unless you think 2016 is his true self, and not the previous 6 years.

If we traded low-level prospects for him and the Cubs didn't eat any salary...we'd still be buying high. They'd have to eat a good chunk of change and also give him to us for the low-level prospects for it to be a buy-low.

I do definitely think it's possible he continues to struggle offensively (even if he's not quite as horrid as he was last year). And the defense still has to remain elite for the entirety of the contract for it to be worth it.

[bravesfanMatt]

28 per is too risky. if the Cubs ate 16 million so his next 2 years are 20 per, then that might be a risk I would be willing to take.

[GovClintonTyree]

If we traded low-level prospects for him and the Cubs didn't eat any salary...we'd still be buying high. They'd have to eat a good chunk of change and also give him to us for the low-level prospects for it to be a buy-low.

I do definitely think it's possible he continues to struggle offensively (even if he's not quite as horrid as he was last year). And the defense still has to remain elite for the entirety of the contract for it to be worth it.

...and even then it's not close to worth it. We dodged a yuge bullet there.

He is as helpless as a kitten. Maddon sitting him for a third straight game tonight in favor of Soler this time.

Watching him as a rookie with a .393 OBP, I really didn't think we were seeing his high water mark. The debate used to be whether you dared move him to CF. Now you almost have to in order to get any value out of him. 6'5", 240 with the skills of a 5'10", 175 lb man.

:Sad:

[clvclv]

28 per is too risky. if the Cubs ate 16 million so his next 2 years are 20 per, then that might be a risk I would be willing to take.

Still WAY too much money.

He's a black hole on offense. Frenchy from the left side with a little better defense.

The Cubs would need to send a prospect or two to boot IF they paid his contract down to around $10 million per if they couldn't guarantee he'd opt out. He's already dead weight and wouldn't start for the Braves next season.

Yes, I really did say that.

[Julio3000]

Still WAY too much money.

He's a black hole on offense. Frenchy from the left side with a little better defense.

The Cubs would need to send a prospect or two to boot IF they paid his contract down to around $10 million per if they couldn't guarantee he'd opt out. He's already dead weight and wouldn't start for the Braves next season.

Yes, I really did say that.

A little better defense? Jeff was only fast for a couple of years and never took good routes. Jason may have fallen a long way as a player, but he could put his shoes on the wrong feet and his glove on the wrong hand, and still play better defense than Jeff ever did.

[smootness]

Still WAY too much money.

He's a black hole on offense. Frenchy from the left side with a little better defense.

The Cubs would need to send a prospect or two to boot IF they paid his contract down to around $10 million per if they couldn't guarantee he'd opt out. He's already dead weight and wouldn't start for the Braves next season.

Yes, I really did say that.

Saying it's too much money is fine. Saying all the other stuff you said is a little crazy. I mean, it COULD end up being true. But it is more likely that it will definitely not be true.

[clvclv]

Saying it's too much money is fine. Saying all the other stuff you said is a little crazy. I mean, it COULD end up being true. But it is more likely that it will definitely not be true.

Definitely on the extreme end, no doubt, but I sure wouldn't want to be paying him even $15 million per to find out whether I'm wrong. You KNOW he's not dumb, so he's definitely not going to exercise either one of those opt-outs.