Active shooter Ohio State campus

[NinersSBChamps]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ohio-state-university-active-shooter-on-campus/

Hope they get this taken care of real quickly.

[gilesfan]

Now that that has drawn all the headlines, it looks to be a case of someone running into a crowd with a car. There are reports he may have had a knife.

[NinersSBChamps]

Conflicting reports is what I am seeing. 9 victims some with gunshot wounds. A car was driven into a building, suspect(s) began shooting and attacking people with a knife. Then I read something that says there are no gunshot wound victims. I think it's safe to say that at least one person was killed (suspect).

[thethe]

Are the reports true that the person was a Somali refugee?

[Garmel]

Are the reports true that the person was a Somali refugee?

Yep. Check this out. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/donald-trump-minnesota-somali-migrants-isis

[thethe]

Yep. Check this out. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/donald-trump-minnesota-somali-migrants-isis

We are so racist for wanting safety in our country.

[thethe]

Let's accept more refugees guys. Nothing bad could happen.

[50PoundHead]

Yep. Check this out. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/06/donald-trump-minnesota-somali-migrants-isis

Old news in Minnesota. We have a lot of Somali refugees and it's been an adjustment in a number of communities, including some regional centers like St. Cloud, Rochester, Owatonna, and Faribault. St. Cloud attack was the first instance of violence and thankfully it ended with only the assailant dead. Looks like the same MO as the attack at tOSU except for the use of a car as a weapon. On the other hand, a number of young Somali men (born in the US if I'm not mistaken) living in Minnesota have received stiff prison sentences for their attempts to join ISIS. We have this multi-culti liberal rep in Minnesota, but it's really an inaccurate caricature of the situation here.

Here's the news story about the cases and conviction: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/minnesota-isis-trial-three-sentenced-hamza-ahmed/ It doesn't have all the sentences in the story, but the judge handed out a couple of 30-year plus penalties in the process.

I don't know much about the tOSU assailant, but I believe all the Minnesota guys had been here for years.

[thethe]

Doesn't matter how long they've been here. Muslims are predisposed to radicalization far more than any other group. The world needs to realize this and act. This is about the safety of our nation.
These attacks will only increase in the future.

[50PoundHead]

Doesn't matter how long they've been here. Muslims are predisposed to radicalization far more than any other group. The world needs to realize this and act. This is about the safety of our nation.
These attacks will only increase in the future.

Given your string of comments on Islam, I'm surprised you can muster up the courage to leave the house.

[thethe]

Given your string of comments on Islam, I'm surprised you can muster up the courage to leave the house.

Right now we are in a good spot. It's all about prevention. I've been saying repeatedly for a decade rhat this is a threat and now people are realizing. I was borderline mocked for having this stance.

We can't continue to ignore the real issue and that is Islam. Throw all the hate comments towards me. I'm fighting for the safety of our children. I won't apologize for that.

[zitothebrave]

Doesn't matter how long they've been here. Muslims are predisposed to radicalization far more than any other group.

Nope.

If you need evidence, just look at Trump's campaign.

[thethe]

Nope.

If you need evidence, just look at Trump's campaign.

Oh you must mean the liberals that caused damage after they couldn't accept the democratic process.

Was the Ohio state attack another one of your false flag incidents that youre suspicious on?

[The Chosen One]

Right now we are in a good spot. It's all about prevention. I've been saying repeatedly for a decade rhat this is a threat and now people are realizing. I was borderline mocked for having this stance.

We can't continue to ignore the real issue and that is Islam. Throw all the hate comments towards me. I'm fighting for the safety of our children. I won't apologize for that.

I mean honestly, if it were as bad as you say, there would have been at minimum 1 terrorist attack a day by muslims during Trump's campaign.

Also, my town has mosque that received another threatening letter in the mail. A few were sent in California.

[thethe]

I mean honestly, if it were as bad as you say, there would have been at minimum 1 terrorist attack a day by muslims during Trump's campaign.

Also, my town has mosque that received another threatening letter in the mail. A few were sent in California.

It's all about prevention so our future is not what Europe is now. I'm still confused how people can act like this is not an issue.

[The Chosen One]

It's all about prevention so our future is not what Europe is now. I'm still confused how people can act like this is not an issue.

Because we aren't like Europe. Luckily, we actually do have a thorough screening process.

Germany accepted a bunch of refugees for economic reasons and an aging population.

Everyone else is screwed there.

[50PoundHead]

Right now we are in a good spot. It's all about prevention. I've been saying repeatedly for a decade rhat this is a threat and now people are realizing. I was borderline mocked for having this stance.

We can't continue to ignore the real issue and that is Islam. Throw all the hate comments towards me. I'm fighting for the safety of our children. I won't apologize for that.

I'm not dogging you for your beliefs. I just think you go a bit overboard. Drunk drivers kill more people in the United States than adherents to radical Islam, but that doesn't keep me off the road.

[zitothebrave]

We are so racist for wanting safety in our country.

It's really sad that you dont' realize the groups that are the easiest to radicalized are the groups that are marginalized. The reason that Somalian refugees in Minnesota are easily recruited is because they're a fringe community. They then are told of a way to be a man and make a difference and they do it.

[zitothebrave]

Oh you must mean the liberals that caused damage after they couldn't accept the democratic process.

Was the Ohio state attack another one of your false flag incidents that youre suspicious on?

If we were a democracy Hillary with her over 2 million more votes would have won.

I haven't really looked at this particular case. I'm just trying to open your mind a little bit. Sadly you won't which is why you're excited for Trump presidency.

[zitothebrave]

Because we aren't like Europe. Luckily, we actually do have a thorough screening process.

Germany accepted a bunch of refugees for economic reasons and an aging population.

Everyone else is screwed there.

Wah? You mean the world is shades of grey not black and white? WAAAAAAH?

[thethe]

I'm not dogging you for your beliefs. I just think you go a bit overboard. Drunk drivers kill more people in the United States than adherents to radical Islam, but that doesn't keep me off the road.

I understand the numbers. I get why people fee the wag you do I guess.

Call me crazy but I think that Islamic jihad is an extremely long game and they have been slowly invading all of western society waiting g for their opportunity to strike. I am of the belief there are dormant cells all over this country waiting for the right time to activate.

Similar to global warming we need to be proactive to prevent issues that will impact our children and their children.

[thethe]

Because we aren't like Europe. Luckily, we actually do have a thorough screening process.

Germany accepted a bunch of refugees for economic reasons and an aging population.

Everyone else is screwed there.

How do you screen someone's personal beliefs?

[57Brave]

How do you screen someone's personal beliefs?

Good question

http://i.imgur.com/VJBsjmJ.jpg

[Oklahomahawk]

I understand the numbers. I get why people fee the wag you do I guess.

Call me crazy but I think that Islamic jihad is an extremely long game and they have been slowly invading all of western society waiting g for their opportunity to strike. I am of the belief there are dormant cells all over this country waiting for the right time to activate. --- I don't actually disagree with you on this, I guess it's more of a matter of degree. There are millions upon millions of Muslims who are peaceful and would and will never cause problems, probably 90%. I am fine with those people as long as they behave and remember that with their religious loyalties as long as they realize if they live in country X they have to promise to support and defend country X from attacks, even if it's their own people doing those attacks, and I mean do this defending proactively, not just condemn it after it happens. If they can't do this, go the eff back to whichever catbox they came from or that they prefer to live in. The other 10% who not only want to destroy us but who actively try to do so must be dealt with and destroyed, not because I enjoy it, but because I want my kids and their kids to be able to grow up and grow old and not get shot or blown up or run over by some homicidal ahole who thinks he's helping to bring about the arrival of the 12th Imam. By the way, I also feel this way about homegrown homicidal aholes, be they Muslim, or so called Christian or whattheeffever who want to destroy this country, even those who just want to make some sort of left wing or right wing point about "Don't Tread on Them" crap. Sorry, I rambled a bit.

Similar to global warming we need to be proactive to prevent issues that will impact our children and their children. Oh dude, you just voided your membership in the Conservative movement, you are expected to turn in your membership card ASAP. After all one of my US Senators PROVED a couple of winters ago that there was no such thing as global warming because in the middle of winter in Washington DC he managed to produce a real actual snowball, which he brought into the Senate chamber to prove his point. :icon_biggrin: .

[thethe]

.

Agreed 100%. Problem that people don't realize that even if it's less than 10% that's almost 100 million terrorists that could potentially become killers. This I a massive problem that the free world needs to get together and solve.

[Oklahomahawk]

Agreed 100%. Problem that people don't realize that even if it's less than 10% that's almost 100 million terrorists that could potentially become killers. This I a massive problem that the free world needs to get together and solve.

I agree, I just think we need to go about it the right way and I don't think W or Obama has done that. Have both helped the situation here somewhat? yes, but both had also made things worse in other ways too IMO.

[goldfly]

even if it's less than 10%

making up numbers is fun

[thethe]

making up numbers is fun

I was responding to the number provided.

What number would you like? Do you acknowledge there is a number?

[goldfly]

of course there is some number out there but does it equal the population of a 1/3 of this country?

i would find that hard to believe


been all over this globe and met so many different types of people and honestly we are way more similar than anything else when it comes down to it.

are there some that would like to do damage? sure

we are doing more damage to our country with the way we are treating each other recently then any foreign or even born here radical religious terrorist could do to us

[zitothebrave]

Agreed 100%. Problem that people don't realize that even if it's less than 10% that's almost 100 million terrorists that could potentially become killers. This I a massive problem that the free world needs to get together and solve.

If there were 100 Million Terrorists around the world they wouldn't be hiding. They'd have enough people to take out pretty much any country. Countries and size of Standing Military, including active, reserve, and para.

DPRK - 7.7M
ROK - 6.6M
Vietnam - 5.5M
India - 4.8M
China - 3.5M
Russia - 3.4M
USA - 2.3M
Brazil - 2M

I'll stop there to hope you get the point.

100M people would crush any standing military even factoring in technical disadvantages.

I'm pretty sure your real number is like 1M and even that is probably optimistic.

[thethe]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

This shows the overwhelming numbers of Muslims that favor Sharia law. Now there is a leap that has to be made from believing in Sharia law to becoming a potential terrorist but it's confusing to me when people diminish just hoe many potential terrorists there are in the world.

[zitothebrave]

What those numbers show is that in parts of the country that generally favor extremism have extreme muslims. Look up **** about schristianity in Africa as well. Religion in general tends to favor the uneducated so it's not shocked that in 3rd world countries that they favor religious extremeism. For example as I recall The Vatican basically had to change their stance on condoms because their stance was a leading cause of the spread of HIV and AIDS.

[thethe]

What those numbers show is that in parts of the country that generally favor extremism have extreme muslims. Look up **** about schristianity in Africa as well. Religion in general tends to favor the uneducated so it's not shocked that in 3rd world countries that they favor religious extremeism. For example as I recall The Vatican basically had to change their stance on condoms because their stance was a leading cause of the spread of HIV and AIDS.

What those numbers show is we should put an immediate stop to immigration from those countries.

[zitothebrave]

What those numbers show is we should put an immediate stop to immigration from those countries.

I suspect we don't get too many immigrants from those areas.

[BedellBrave]

Was recently on the other side of the globe in a Christian hospital serving a Muslim majority community with compassion and integrity. Muslim medical doctors and nurses want to work there (understandably so). Watched as a one such doctor used some of the equipment Christians purchased on a poor Muslim man. The doctor was beaming with joy and was thankful.

Same country - had to have armed police escorts out of the city I was in. Madrasas around. Pockets of jihadists group throughout the area.

Not sure what this has to do with this post. Just think it somehow does.

[thethe]

Was recently on the other side of the globe in a Christian hospital serving a Muslim majority community with compassion and integrity. Muslim medical doctors and nurses want to work there (understandably so). Watched as a one such doctor used some of the equipment Christians purchased on a poor Muslim man. The doctor was beaming with joy and was thankful.

Same country - had to have armed police escorts out of the city I was in. Madrasas around. Pockets of jihadists group throughout the area.

Not sure what this has to do with this post. Just think it somehow does.

There is absolutely no question that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are amazing people. I love what you do around the globe and if more people were like you this world would be a better place.

This still doesn't change my stance because it's not worth the risk to let people in this country that could potentially harm our children.

[BedellBrave]

There is absolutely no question that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are amazing people. I love what you do around the globe and if more people were like you this world would be a better place.

This still doesn't change my stance because it's not worth the risk to let people in this country that could potentially harm our children.


thethe, didn't mean to infer that you should change your stance. Governments have different responsibilities and roles to play in this than churches or individuals. Also, note - despite the good our hospital does there, there are large numbers of people there who would have us gone and the number is probably more than 10%... Lots of factors involved, granted, but the West can't ignore the dangers of jihadist Islam. I still agree with you that far too many Westerners have a rather naive view.

[thethe]

thethe, didn't mean to infer that you should change your stance. Governments have different responsibilities and roles to play in this than churches or individuals. Also, note - despite the good our hospital does there, there are large numbers of people there who would have us gone and the number is probably more than 10%... Lots of factors involved, granted, but the West can't ignore the dangers of jihadist Islam. I still agree with you that far too many Westerners have a rather naive view.

I figured as much but wasn't sure.

It certainly is alarming the worldview that so many have but I feel the tides are changing. The world has seen was has happened in Europe and is deciding enough is enough.

[sturg33]

I do believe the actions we have taken and will likely continue to take under President Trump will only make things worse.

You can claim radical islam all you want. I still think "my son was killed by a drone as collateral damage" makes a whole lot more sense for motivation.

Just my $0.02

[thethe]

I do believe the actions we have taken and will likely continue to take under President Trump will only make things worse.

You can claim radical islam all you want. I still think "my son was killed by a drone as collateral damage" makes a whole lot more sense for motivation.

Just my $0.02

I'm cool with leaving all together and letting the Russians deal with it. Then the world will realive that the US wasn't that bad.

That still doesn't stop the fact we have to suspend immigration from these countries.

[goldfly]

potential terrorists there are in the world.

how many people are on earth?

7 billion i think i last heard

that means there are 7 billion potential terrorists in the world

[goldfly]

Was recently on the other side of the globe in a Christian hospital serving a Muslim majority community with compassion and integrity. Muslim medical doctors and nurses want to work there (understandably so). Watched as a one such doctor used some of the equipment Christians purchased on a poor Muslim man. The doctor was beaming with joy and was thankful.

Same country - had to have armed police escorts out of the city I was in. Madrasas around. Pockets of jihadists group throughout the area.

Not sure what this has to do with this post. Just think it somehow does.

hopefully islam will follow the same arch of religious growth that christianity did and move away from it's violent spread and embrace helping people like christianity has done

but islam in it's history of growth right now is at the same timeframe christianity was when it was spread by the sword and burning people etc

good work Bedell :cheers

[thethe]

hopefully islam will follow the same arch of religious growth that christianity did and move away from it's violent spread and embrace helping people like christianity has done

but islam in it's history of growth right now is at the same timeframe christianity was when it was spread by the sword and burning people etc

good work Bedell :cheers

False equivalency. The world around them is different and they still choose to live like animals.

[BedellBrave]

hopefully islam will follow the same arch of religious growth that christianity did and move away from it's violent spread and embrace helping people like christianity has done

but islam in it's history of growth right now is at the same timeframe christianity was when it was spread by the sword and burning people etc

good work Bedell :cheers


Christianity wasn't initially spread by the sword. And when "it" was it wasn't Christianity. It was a wedding of Church-State, or State with a veneer of Christianity. The problem with Islam is that at it's core it is Mosque-State. Christ said "my kingdom is not of this world." Muhammad didn't say that nor did he practice that. Thus, for that arc to happen in Islam, Islam has to become something very unlike what it is at it's core.

Thanks!

[BedellBrave]

I do believe the actions we have taken and will likely continue to take under President Trump will only make things worse.

You can claim radical islam all you want. I still think "my son was killed by a drone as collateral damage" makes a whole lot more sense for motivation.

Just my $0.02


I don't think it is an either/or. I know our drone war in Pakistan has made matters worse. But, I doubt total separation from involvement in the Islamic world will prevent jihadist expansion, not when the goal is to make all of the world dar al-islam.

[thethe]

I don't think it is an either/or. I know our drone war in Pakistan has made matters worse. But, I doubt total separation from involvement in the Islamic world will prevent jihadist expansion, not when the goal is to make all of the world dar al-islam.

I hate the narrative that terrorism is our fault.

[The Chosen One]

I hate the narrative that terrorism is our fault.

You can say it's not our fault, but if you read history you can see that we're not entirely innocent either.

[thethe]

You can say it's not our fault, but if you read history you can see that we're not entirely innocent either.

I've never once stated we are innocent in this bloodshed but it's my belief that this has been coming for centuries and nothing the western world could have done that would have changed it.

[Krgrecw]

You can say it's not our fault, but if you read history you can see that we're not entirely innocent either.



You can say that about every battle throughout history.

[Krgrecw]

I've never once stated we are innocent in this bloodshed but it's my belief that this has been coming for centuries and nothing the western world could have done that would have changed it.


Amen..

[50PoundHead]

I get the fear and everything and I understand the religious angle here, but I would like to add a couple of viewpoints. First, Muslims kill more Muslims than they do anyone else and they've been doing that for centuries. It's not funny, but I kind of do an eye roll when every time a white policeman kills an African-American, we're treated to another round of "Well, what about black-on-black crime!?!" The other thing is that the Wahabist Saudis are funding madrassas all over the world, but hey, they are our allies so we never call them on it. That's where the terrorists are being trained, but somehow our steaming rock hard-on for Iran (the gift that also gave us Saddam Hussein) seems to blind us to that fact. Just read an article today about how the Saudi clerics are basically invading the most populous Muslim country in the world: Indonesia.

[sturg33]

I've never once stated we are innocent in this bloodshed but it's my belief that this has been coming for centuries and nothing the western world could have done that would have changed it.

I feel like if the western world didn't create & fund ISIS it might make a difference.

One of the things Trump was right about

[BedellBrave]

I hate the narrative that terrorism is our fault.


It's myopic.

[BedellBrave]

I get the fear and everything and I understand the religious angle here, but I would like to add a couple of viewpoints. First, Muslims kill more Muslims than they do anyone else and they've been doing that for centuries. It's not funny, but I kind of do an eye roll when every time a white policeman kills an African-American, we're treated to another round of "Well, what about black-on-black crime!?!" The other thing is that the Wahabist Saudis are funding madrassas all over the world, but hey, they are our allies so we never call them on it. That's where the terrorists are being trained, but somehow our steaming rock hard-on for Iran (the gift that also gave us Saddam Hussein) seems to blind us to that fact. Just read an article today about how the Saudi clerics are basically invading the most populous Muslim country in the world: Indonesia.


Oh, "we" don't call them out because how would our presidents have their libraries if we did?

[thethe]

I feel like if the western world didn't create & fund ISIS it might make a difference.

One of the things Trump was right about

ISIS would have eventually existed in some form or abother. We did not create this ideology. That's the disease that is plaguing the world.

[50PoundHead]

Oh, "we" don't call them out because how would our presidents have their libraries if we did?

If I'm reading you right, that's about it in a nutshell. But we chose the Sunni side of the equation when the Shia clerics took over Iran (perhaps unwittingly because our brilliant minds in the defense/intelligence/diplomacy sector only thought in secular terms) and as a result we've suffered from our myopia.

[Oklahomahawk]

ISIS would have eventually existed in some form or abother. We did not create this ideology. That's the disease that is plaguing the world.

Well removing Saddam really poured Miracle Grow on the process.

[Oklahomahawk]

I get the fear and everything and I understand the religious angle here, but I would like to add a couple of viewpoints. First, Muslims kill more Muslims than they do anyone else and they've been doing that for centuries. It's not funny, but I kind of do an eye roll when every time a white policeman kills an African-American, we're treated to another round of "Well, what about black-on-black crime!?!" The other thing is that the Wahabist Saudis are funding madrassas all over the world, but hey, they are our allies so we never call them on it. That's where the terrorists are being trained, but somehow our steaming rock hard-on for Iran (the gift that also gave us Saddam Hussein) seems to blind us to that fact. Just read an article today about how the Saudi clerics are basically invading the most populous Muslim country in the world: Indonesia.

Would it be terribly unfair if I said one of if not THE main reason we don't do a better job of standing up to belief systems we don't agree with (and often rightly so) is that we no longer actually know what we believe in any more? We don't have our swagger any more as a nation because we bought into that old "it's OK to do a little evil in order to do much good" and once you start down that "the ends justify the means" pathway it isn't long before you get lost, likely never to get back on the right road?

[The Chosen One]

Well removing Saddam really poured Miracle Grow on the process.

Remember reading a conspiracy theory about the US going after Saudi Arabia surgically after 9/11. As in, create so much instability around Saudi Arabia (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Egypt) that they're going to be boxed in and no way out.

[thethe]

Remember reading a conspiracy theory about the US going after Saudi Arabia surgically after 9/11. As in, create so much instability around Saudi Arabia (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Egypt) that they're going to be boxed in and no way out.

There is absolutely layers of tactics being implemented that inky a handful of people in the world are privy to. This is the longest war being fought that nobody realizes.

[Oklahomahawk]

Remember reading a conspiracy theory about the US going after Saudi Arabia surgically after 9/11. As in, create so much instability around Saudi Arabia (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Egypt) that they're going to be boxed in and no way out.

Speaking of Miracle Grow (from my previous post) the Miracle Grow that created, or at least hastened the growth and developed Al Qaeda was our presence in Saudi Arabia, which was because of Desert Shield/Storm. I'd go into it further but it would greatly irritate our conservative brethren because it would require facing some unpleasant facts. One could always check out the Silverado Savings and Loan scandal of the 1980s and see if they can find any names that sound familiar. It would also require doing some math (of the 2 + 2 variety) that only seems to work when Obama or Hilldog effs up.

[50PoundHead]

Speaking of Miracle Grow (from my previous post) the Miracle Grow that created, or at least hastened the growth and developed Al Qaeda was our presence in Saudi Arabia, which was because of Desert Shield/Storm. I'd go into it further but it would greatly irritate our conservative brethren because it would require facing some unpleasant facts. One could always check out the Silverado Savings and Loan scandal of the 1980s and see if they can find any names that sound familiar. It would also require doing some math (of the 2 + 2 variety) that only seems to work when Obama or Hilldog effs up.

I think the big problem we've had post-WWII is that we were typically an isolationist country (or at least isolationist outside the Western hemisphere) up to that point. We fought in WWI, but that was the Wilsonian "war to end all wars" and the rejection of the League of Nations treaty and Harding's "return to normalcy" put us back on the isolationist track. The victory in WWII combined with the demise of Europe (which happened regardless of Churchill's efforts) made us (and the Soviets) superpowers before we had a fully mature worldview. The Red Scare gave us a mission without the expertise to fulfill the goal. You can blame John Foster Dulles, Dean Rusk, Henry Kissinger (who probably deserves the most scorn), and others, but I think it really boils down to we just have been unable to recognize the true issues and have become, as you say, Machiavellian in the process.

As I alluded to earlier, I think Kissinger's cynicism and his being a Bismarck wannabe really messed things up. Like Bismarck, Kissinger adored the notion of a non-ideological balance of nations to avoid war, but that didn't fit the US experience given its status as a budding superpower in the post-WWII era. Germany, while certainly more organized militarily than its European neighbors in the mid- to late-19th century, did not possess the type of power that could physically master Europe nor did it compete in either the Great Game or the Scramble for Africa as aggressively as the English and the French. That wasn't the case for the US after WWII and with the collapse of the European colonies in Asia and Africa, the US chose to take on--overtly and covertly--the role of the world's headmaster in the name of restoring some sense of order. The Soviets were more than happy to play the juvenile delinquent (at least in the eyes of US and Western Europe) and our tug-of-war with them really overlooked what was happening in the countries playing the rope in that scenario. I'm not absolving the Soviets or the Chinese for their happily grabbing the other end of the rope and engaging in the same cynicism that we employed, but there's no question the damage inflicted by all parties to the Cold War (and the hot little skirmishes that took place during it) rained down without mercy on a lot of innocents around the globe.

But I want to stress that it wasn't just Kissinger. I just think he was the most cynical of the herd of military and diplomatic minds that have shaped US foreign policy in the post-WWII era.

[BedellBrave]

If I'm reading you right, that's about it in a nutshell. But we chose the Sunni side of the equation when the Shia clerics took over Iran (perhaps unwittingly because our brilliant minds in the defense/intelligence/diplomacy sector only thought in secular terms) and as a result we've suffered from our myopia.


And neocons continued the thinking in only secular terms. Oi vey

[BedellBrave]

Remember reading a conspiracy theory about the US going after Saudi Arabia surgically after 9/11. As in, create so much instability around Saudi Arabia (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Egypt) that they're going to be boxed in and no way out.


I can't imagine our foreign policy being that chess like, in all honesty.

[Oklahomahawk]

I can't imagine our foreign policy being that chess like, in all honesty.

More like Chutes and Ladders? ;)

[goldfly]

Remember reading a conspiracy theory about the US going after Saudi Arabia surgically after 9/11. As in, create so much instability around Saudi Arabia (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Egypt) that they're going to be boxed in and no way out.

that's a really bad theory