DOTW 9/4/'13: Is Kimbrel the best closer this organization has ever had?

[ChapelHillMatt]

I haven't checked the numbers but I can't imagine anyone more dominant, not even Smoltz.

[Dalyn]

Yes.

[cajunrevenge]

I would take Smoltz because he was one of the greatest clutch pitchers of all time. Kimbrel is really not tested in the playoffs and he did blow game 162 in 2011 to seal to collapse. Its not really a knock on Kimbrel as it is a man crush on Smoltz.

[Dalyn]

I would take Smoltz because he was one of the greatest clutch pitchers of all time. Kimbrel is really not tested in the playoffs and he did blow game 162 in 2011 to seal to collapse. Its not really a knock on Kimbrel as it is a man crush on Smoltz.

Smoltz is awesome. No doubt.

[Braves82]

I would take Smoltz because he was one of the greatest clutch pitchers of all time. Kimbrel is really not tested in the playoffs and he did blow game 162 in 2011 to seal to collapse. Its not really a knock on Kimbrel as it is a man crush on Smoltz.

I would tend to agree. Until Kimbrel can prove himself in a tight playoff series, Smoltz is still the man. I have no doubt Kimbrel can step up and do it in the playoffs, but he still has to prove it.

[ProbationDeac]

I love Smoltz but Kimbrel is incredible. I hope he does well in the playoffs this year as I expect he will given the opportunity.

[CyYoung31]

Kimbrel also had a hand in blowing Game 3 of the 2010 NLDS.

But, I think so, yes.

[Bye Week]

His 3 year run could be the best in the history of MLB.

2010 isn't fair to blame on Kimbrel. Cox should have left him in the game also. He had thrown 20IP in MLB up to that point. We were handcuffed without Wagner though.


The guy has a career ERA of 1.32, 0.89WHIP, .153BAA, 15.1K/9IP, .402OPS allowed and 133 saves in 147 chances (8 of the blown saves were his rookie year).

Kimbrel is flat out incredible and has dominated major league hitters like no other RP ever has, period.

He is the best closer to ever wear a Braves uniform and I am the biggest Smoltz fan in the world. I would rather have Smoltz start game 7 and Kimbrel close it out.

[Bj1133]

Kimbrel also had a hand in blowing Game 3 of the 2010 NLDS.

That game is on Bobby Cox and Brooks Conrad. Bobby should have never taken Kimbrel out for Mike Dunn. Kimbrel looked dominant out there, despite the 2 hits. Conrad makes the routine play and we go to the 9th all tied up.

[thethe]

I'll tell you what. I love me some Kimbrel but Smoltz seemed more automatic than him. I NEVER thought it was even possible for someone to get a hit off of him when he was our closer.

[Julio3000]

What Smoltz did was brilliant. What Kimbrel is doing is historic.

[thethe]

What Smoltz did was brilliant. What Kimbrel is doing is historic.

I get what you are saying and while Kimbrel does have the better underlying statistics I still believe that Smoltz was better. Its really the same question as who I would rather sleep with. Kate Upton now or Jennifer Annistan of 10 years ago. How about both?

[zitothebrave]

I'll tell you what. I love me some Kimbrel but Smoltz seemed more automatic than him. I NEVER thought it was even possible for someone to get a hit off of him when he was our closer.

From 2002-2004 Smoltz saved 144 games and blew 13. In Kimbrel's first 3 seasons as a closer he saved 132 games and blew 14. Pretty much identical.

That said Kimbrel>All

[thethe]

From 2002-2004 Smoltz saved 144 games and blew 13. In Kimbrel's first 3 seasons as a closer he saved 132 games and blew 14. Pretty much identical.

That said Kimbrel>All

Smolt was more automatic. Kimbrel just goes about his business in a more dominant fashion. Smoltz was just my all time favorite Brave so I'm partial.

[weso1]

This would've been a great DOTW by the way. Need to get folks to post this kind of stuff in the off season especially when the board hits a bit of a lul. Great question and I think he is. That is really saying something about Kimbrel as Smoltz had an amazing run as a closer. With that in mind Kimbrel is basically John Rocker without any of the baggage and with really good control.

I mean... I just don't think we'll ever see a reliever put up the numbers Kimbrel did in 2012. A freaking .654 WHIP. We're all looking at Kimbrel this season and thinking... wow... he's in decline with his .850 WHIP and only 13 K's/9. Smoltz didn't come close to Kimbrel's 2012.

[CyYoung31]

That game is on Bobby Cox and Brooks Conrad. Bobby should have never taken Kimbrel out for Mike Dunn. Kimbrel looked dominant out there, despite the 2 hits. Conrad makes the routine play and we go to the 9th all tied up.

He still gave up two baserunners and put Bobby in a bind. So, yes, he played a part in it.

[Pugfan]

Smolt was more automatic. Kimbrel just goes about his business in a more dominant fashion. Smoltz was just my all time favorite Brave so I'm partial.

How was he more automatic? How is it possible to be more automatic than Kimbrel. Kimbrel has a career Era of 1.33. Smoltz was a great closer but Kimbrel is better.

[The Chosen One]

I still take Smoltz over Kimbrel.

Kimbrel has a few outings where his control just isn't there and has to rely on putting it in play.

Smoltz was still a pitcher first, thrower second. Kimbrel is getting there though. I feel like Kimbrel falls in love with his curveball/slider too much sometimes (not that they're bad pitches).

Kimbrel with a lead makes me feel comfortable, Smoltz made me feel like it was a done deal.

They're both pretty much automatic, but it's the difference between me saying Kimbrel was a 99.7% sure thing, and Smoltz was a 99.8% sure thing.

[Pugfan]

He still gave up two baserunners and put Bobby in a bind. So, yes, he played a part in it.

He is a far better pitcher now than he was in 2010. Just like Smoltz was a far better pitcher in 1991 than he was in 1988.

[The Chosen One]

Another thing of note, Smoltz was dominating during the peak years of the steroids era as closer.

Kimbrel is dominating in an era where pitching has made a comeback the last few years.

In the playoffs, I probably take Smoltz 6/10, just because he can go multiple innings.

[The Chosen One]

Kimbrel's been perfect since his blown saves early in the year, but lets not forget he probably still wouldn't have this streak had Heyward not made an amazing catch to save what would've been a blown-save loss.

[cajunrevenge]

In the regular season the difference between Kimbrel and a good closer is marginal. Its in the postseason where elite closers prove their worth. Although Smoltz didnt have much playoff closing experience I feel confident that if it came to game 7 of the world series up by 1 run he would close that game no question. I dont have that same faith in Kimbrel just yet. If we are talking a closer for just the regular season then sure give me Kimbrel. If we are talking playoffs its Smoltz whether it be as starter, middle reliever, closer, ROOGY, LOOGY, or long reliever.

[Carp]

I'll take Smoltzie. And his 2003 was pretty comparable to Kimbrel's 2012. Especially when you adjust for the offensive era of 2003 and the offensive era of 2012. His 2002 would look much better overall as well if you take out his 8 run performance in the 2nd game of the yr.

[The Chosen One]

I'll take Smoltzie. And his 2003 was pretty comparable to Kimbrel's 2012. Especially when you adjust for the offensive era of 2003 and the offensive era of 2012. His 2002 would look much better overall as well if you take out his 8 run performance in the 2nd game of the yr.

Ugh that game.

I remember that off season. Mutts acquired Burnitz, Alomar, Mo Vaughn, Jeff D'Amico etc and we countered with Sheffield.

Huge series that was to start off. Luckily the injuries destroyed the Mets that year.

[yeezus]

Kimbrel's been perfect since his blown saves early in the year, but lets not forget he probably still wouldn't have this streak had Heyward not made an amazing catch to save what would've been a blown-save loss.

I think it's silly to look at things like this. Did Andruw Jones ever make plays for Smoltz?
And I'm not sure how Smoltz was more automatic, when pretty much every number says otherwise? (even ERA and WHIP, among the fancy stats).

[Julio3000]

Ugh that game.

I remember that off season. Mutts acquired Burnitz, Alomar, Mo Vaughn, Jeff D'Amico etc and we countered with Sheffield.

Huge series that was to start off. Luckily the injuries destroyed the Mets that year.

I think that game pissed Smoltz off so much that he found another gear.

[zitothebrave]

I'll take Smoltzie. And his 2003 was pretty comparable to Kimbrel's 2012. Especially when you adjust for the offensive era of 2003 and the offensive era of 2012. His 2002 would look much better overall as well if you take out his 8 run performance in the 2nd game of the yr.

Lulz

In 2003 Smoltz had a 385 ERA+ last 2 years Kimbrel has been at 399 and 417 respectively. Not to mention the FIP advantage

You can make it pretty simple. Smoltz from 02-04 had a 173 ERA+, Kimbrel has in his 3 years as closer a 277.

And you can't play the if you remove one bad outing game. That's not how statistical analysis works. Sure you can say Smoltz's ERA looks worse than his results because of a bad outing, but then you rely on other stats which you immediately disqualify anyway.

BTW in the realm of weird facts. Kimbrel has 3 blown saves and 2 losses, He's let up runs in 4 games this year, meaning the 2 outcomes of Kimbrel coming in this year were not letting the opponent cross the plate, or they won. No blown save wins, no superfluous outings where he let up 2 runs but we were up by 5, etc. Pretty interesting.

[Hawk]

I'd take Smoltz as well, no knock on Kimbrel though.

[The Chosen One]

Bobby or Fredi would have never left Kimbrel in to give up 8 runs. For some reason he let Smoltz.

[ChapelHillMatt]

I think this debate is one where you really can't go wrong with either. It's all personal preference, both were/are top of the line elite closers. Both are automatic, when they enter the game it's pretty much over.

I agree with the poster that said the ideal scenario would be one where Smoltz started and Kimbrel closed.

[atl717]

Smoltz was a great closer. Kimbrel's pitched like the grestest reliever of all time in his short tenure. His numbers dwarf Mariano. Blown Saves is a terrible stat, blowing a 1 run lead isnt the same as blowing a 2 or 3 run lead. You arent insulting to Smoltz to say Kimbrel was better, which he is easily by any stat out there.

[CyYoung31]

He is a far better pitcher now than he was in 2010. Just like Smoltz was a far better pitcher in 1991 than he was in 1988.

No one is saying otherwise.

[Braves1976]

2010 isn't fair to blame on Kimbrel. Cox should have left him in the game also. He had thrown 20IP in MLB up to that point. We were handcuffed without Wagner though.


Agreed. Cox obviously just didn't trust him enough due to his lack of experience. It looks even worse now because Kimbrel has proven those numbers no fluke, etc. What was worse is Cox brought in Mike Dunn, who had already been struggling previously despite good overall numbers. Plus our options were limited minus Wagner as you note.

Also, Conrad gets most of the blame but Cox should've replaced him defensively in the 9th (especially after he'd already made two errors that game). Further, MLB Network showed that on that 9th inning error the umpire by second actually screened Conrad on the play (no one else considered that point at the time because they were too busy bashing Conrad).

[Braves1976]

What Smoltz did was brilliant. What Kimbrel is doing is historic.

Agreed. But I'd still take Smoltz over Kimbrel in a big game situation. That's no knock on Kimbrel, it's just I consider Smoltz the best big game pitcher I have ever had the pleasure to watch pitch.

[nsacpi]

Yeah, for a one-run game in the post-season, I'd take Smoltzie in the ninth.

[Runnin]

Smoltz was smarter but had more experience before becoming a closer.

Kimbrel to be so dominant right out of the gate is just crazy. It's too good to be true. In fact I expect for his velocity to start falling soon, hopefully not from injury but history is not on his side. However, I thought the same thing last year and he was just as good.