The worst thing we could do is trade for Sale or Archer; Let's target 2019

[SJ24]

That would simply take us from a bad team to a mediocre team, if that.

The Cubs didn't build their superpower by trading away their young players.

First, we should trade Colon, Dickey, Garcia, and Kemp before the deadline for some more prospects.

Here's what we'll have to start the 2019 season (the year I think we should be targeting) (ages are what they'll be in 2019)

1B- Freddie Freeman (29)
2B- Ozzie Albies (22)
SS- Dansby Swanson (25)
CF- Ender Inciarte (28)

RHP- Julio Teheran (28)
RHP- Mike Foltynewicz (27)

RHP- Arodys Vizcaino (28)
LHP- Ian Krol (28)
RHP- Mauricio Cabrera (25)
RHP- Shae Simmons (28)
RHP- Daniel Winkler (29)

Then you have the following guys who could be contributors:

Starters
LHP- Sean Newcomb 26 years old
LHP- Kolby Allard- 22
RHP- Ian Anderson- 21
RHP- Mike Soroka- 22
LHP- Joey Wentz- 22
RHP- Touki Toussaint- 23
LHP- Max Fried- 25
LHP- Kyle Muller- 22
RHP- Lucas Sims- 25
LHP- Ricardo Sanchez- 22
RHP- Patrick Weigel- 25
LHP- Michael Mader- 25

Bullpen
RHP- Tyrell Jenkins- 26
RHP- Akeel Morris- 27
LHP- A.J. Minter- 26
LHP- Jacob Lindgren- 26

Bats
C- Lucas Herbert- 23
C- Brett Cumberland- 24
C/OF- Alex Jackson- 23
C- Abraham Gutierrez- 19
2B- Travis Demeritte- 25
SS- Kevin Maitan- 19
SS- Yunior Severino- 19
SS- Derian Cruz- 21
SS- Anfernee Seymour- 24
3B- Austin Riley- 22
3B- Rio Ruiz- 25
OF- Dustin Peterson- 25
OF- Ronald Acuna- 21
OF- Cristian Pache- 21
OF- Braxton Davidson- 23

Then, we will have the number 5 overall pick in the 2017 draft and another high pick in the 2018 draft.

Then we can trade some youngsters for an ace and a big bat.

With Kemp, Colon, Dickey, Garcia, Markakis, Jim Johnson and Sean Rodriguez off the books, that's about $70 million freed up. We could target another bat in a very good free agent class.

So, hypothetically, we could have this roster for 2019:

C- J.J. Schwarz (2017 1st rounder)
1B- Freddie Freeman
2B- Ozzie Albies
SS- Dansby Swanson
3B- Manny Machado (sign him winter 2018)
LF- one of our minor league bats (Peterson or maybe Riley?)
CF- Ender Inciarte
RF- George Springer (trade 3-4 top prospects for him)

SP- Chris Archer (trade 3-4 top prospects for him)
SP- Julio Teheran
SP- Mike Foltynewicz
SP- Sean Newcomb
SP- one of our current minor leaguers

Bullpen- lots of options
CL- Mauricio Cabrera or Arodys Vizcaino

The only untouchable I'd have in trading prospects at this point would be Maitan.

This is just an idea of what we could do.

Let's be patient.

[WaitingFor2017]

I agree. We don't need Archer or Sale this year. I say go into this year and get what you can out of those SP plus a guy like Kemp or Markakis if he does well this year. Take the high draft pick and get a fairly decent high pick for 2018. I'd hate to see this momentum fizzle out to add an extra 3-4 wins with Chris Sale and still be a good 10 games out of the wild card chase while mortgaging some of the future.

[Heyward]

Reason i'd prefer Archer > Sale is we'd have him until 2021 with his options on his contract.

[nsacpi]

it all depends on the price

imo Inciarte plus Toussaint is a fair price for Sale and Inciarte plus Newcomb for Archer

i would hold on to Albies

[smootness]

it all depends on the price

imo Inciarte plus Toussaint is a fair price for Sale and Inciarte plus Newcomb for Archer

i would hold on to Albies

Well, you're never getting Sale for those 2. Not even close.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

I agree, make the trade next season when it will be less costly. These guys prolly aren't going anywhere.

[chop2chip]

I agree with your general sentiment, but 2019? Come on, man. At some point you have to just go for it.

I love what the FO is doing this year. Protecting all future assets (payroll, prospects, etc.) but legitimately upgrading the team. We are almost at the point where one or two players puts us into contention.

[thethe]

Whose to say that pitchers like Sale/Archer will be available within the timeline you specified? Sometimes you have to strike when the opportunity is there.

Regardless of what all the projections say there is a chance the Braves get into the playoffs and if you have a pitcher like Sale your chances of getting hot and winning increase significantly.

[Knucksie]

All right! Another kid posts a hypothetical lineup extended out years in advance with only current and prospect Braves. That's right. No roster turnover will occur. No trades or FA signings for 3 years. Every minor leaguer becomes a productive major leaguer. Nobody gets hurt. Yeah, that sounds realistic.

[The Chosen One]

All right! Another kid posts a hypothetical lineup extended out years in advance with only current and prospect Braves. That's right. No roster turnover will occur. No trades or FA signings for 3 years. Every minor leaguer becomes a productive major leaguer. Nobody gets hurt. Yeah, that sounds realistic.

Don't you remember when our projected rotation was:

Hodges
Nelson
Moss
Bong
Belisle?

[Oklahomabrave]

I agree with the premise in regards to Sale, but with Archer we would have him for 5 years. He's worth it in my mind.

[Deester11]

Don't you remember when our projected rotation was:

Hodges
Nelson
Moss
Bong
Belisle?puke!

[depley]

one thing to remember

Starters
drafted round 1 LHP- Sean Newcomb 26 years old
drafted round 1 LHP- Kolby Allard- 22
drafted round 1 RHP- Ian Anderson- 21
drafted round 1 RHP- Mike Soroka- 22
drafted round 1 RHP- Touki Toussaint- 23
drafted round 1 RHP- Lucas Sims- 25
drafted round 1 LHP- Max Fried- 25
competative balance round LHP- Joey Wentz- 22
drafted round 2 LHP- Kyle Muller- 22
LHP- Ricardo Sanchez- 22
RHP- Patrick Weigel- 25
drafted supplmental round LHP- Michael Mader- 25

there is a reason all these guys were drafted as high as they were, they have upside. Maybe not all are aces, but they usually have good upsides. I am OK with waiting to find out, I am in no hurry to trade them off for something that may look better, the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

[Horsehide Harry]

Don't you remember when our projected rotation was:

Hodges
Nelson
Moss
Bong
Belisle?

Braves acquire Len Barker for Brett Butler, Brook Jacoby, Rick Behenna

Both Butler AND Jacoby had far better careers than Len Barker. Butler alone had 2400 ML hits and a lifetime .377 OBP as a LO CF.

An argument could be made that Behenna actually had a better career post trade than Barker IF finances are considered.

But, hey, Barker once threw a no hitter. Not with the Braves. But once.

Braves finished 88-74, second in the NL West and missed the playoffs. Then went 80-82. Then 66-96. Then 72-89. 69-92. 54-106....

All the while Butler has established himself as one of the best LO hitters in the game (behind only Ricky Henderson) and Jacoby is hitting 20+ HR for the Indians.

[Enscheff]

Well, you're never getting Sale for those 2. Not even close.

And that's the rub. The Braves can't get Sale or Archer for a package that doesn't severely damage their chances of competing in 2018 and beyond, so they shouldn't make the deal.

If Coppy is half as smart as we hope he is, they won't acquire either pitcher this offseason.

Next offseason? Whole different scenario. The Braves could very well project to be an 85+ win team, and trading for an Ace might be a good move.

[Knucksie]

Braves acquire Len Barker for Brett Butler, Brook Jacoby, Rick Behenna

Both Butler AND Jacoby had far better careers than Len Barker. Butler alone had 2400 ML hits and a lifetime .377 OBP as a LO CF.

An argument could be made that Behenna actually had a better career post trade than Barker IF finances are considered.

But, hey, Barker once threw a no hitter. Not with the Braves. But once.

Braves finished 88-74, second in the NL West and missed the playoffs. Then went 80-82. Then 66-96. Then 72-89. 69-92. 54-106....

All the while Butler has established himself as one of the best LO hitters in the game (behind only Ricky Henderson) and Jacoby is hitting 20+ HR for the Indians.


Believe that the Barker no-hitter was a perfect game.

The sting of that blunder could've been reduced dramatically. Butler was offered back to the Braves by the Indians for Brad Komminsk. Losing Behenna didn't really have far reaching consequences. Jacoby would have been perfect to cover 3rd for when Bob Horner's wrist was busted (either time). It also would have saved from having to surrender a very useful LH reliever, Ken Dayley, for the powerless Ken Oberkfell.

[Horsehide Harry]

Believe that the Barker no-hitter was a perfect game.

The sting of that blunder could've been reduced dramatically. Butler was offered back to the Braves by the Indians for Brad Komminsk. Losing Behenna didn't really have far reaching consequences. Jacoby would have been perfect to cover 3rd for when Bob Horner's wrist was busted (either time). It also would have saved from having to surrender a very useful LH reliever, Ken Dayley, for the powerless Ken Oberkfell.

Agree with all that. But the move shouldn't have been made to start with.

While Jacoby was nowhere near as talented as Horner, he was very good for the day and had about 3 All-Star quality seasons. But, he was seen as expendable because the Braves had Horner.

[Knucksie]

Don't you remember when our projected rotation was:

Hodges
Nelson
Moss
Bong
Belisle?

Damn, would love to know if the author of that rotation posts here! Let's smoke him out. Somebody actually thought Hodges had long term potential? Think they actually got something useful from the Reds for Bubba Nelson and maybe Matt Belisle too?

For all the criticism of Schuerholz moves over the years, he rarely got burned trading pitching prospects. The org still had a rep as a pitching factory when they really weren't still developing top end talent. After David Nied, Jason Schmidt and Terrell Wade, there were a lot of big names that didn't go on to bigger and better things.