The War on Police Continues

[Tomahawking4life]

Absolutely sickening to watch.


1 officer shot in TN last night. 2 officers in GA as well, bringing the total to 6 in the last week I believe.

[57Brave]

why use the word war.

It is a shame 3 people were shot but a war of police
You apparently have no idea what war is

[57Brave]

I am amazed that since the election we are seeing a proliferation of words like war and hate.
Hate being assigned to people that only disagree with a writer.

Been on these boards for a long time and been in many a message board argument / disagreement.
Never ascribed the word hate toward a fellow poster.

////

There is no more a war on police than there is a war on black people.
Or a war on capitalism
Or a war on decency

or even worse.
a war on Christmas.

C'mon people , use your words

[MrShwag]

Brief moment of levity: Your war on the use of the word "war" sickens me to no end. And then back into it: In truth, there is a war on police. There is a war on capitalism. There is a war on Christmas and Christianity. There is an ongoing war on decency. Wars are not only fought on traditional battlefields with army troops in earth toned uniforms with expensive weaponry.

And here is the shocker (for you), words can have multiple definitions of levels of meaning, not just the single literal #1 definition.

For ex-****ing-zample:

war1
[wawr]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air.
2.
a state or period of armed hostility or active military operations:
The two nations were at war with each other.
3.
a contest carried on by force of arms, as in a series of battles or campaigns:
the War of 1812.
4.
armed fighting, as a science, profession, activity, or art; methods or principles of waging armed conflict:
War is the soldier's business.
5.
active hostility or contention; conflict; contest:
a war of words.
6.
aggressive business conflict, as through severe price cutting in the same industry or any other means of undermining competitors:
a fare war among airlines; a trade war between nations.
7.
a struggle to achieve a goal: the war on cancer; a war against poverty;
a war for hearts and minds.
8.
Cards.
a game for two or more persons, played with a 52-card pack evenly divided between the players, in which each player turns up one card at a time with the higher card taking the lower, and in which, when both turned up cards match, each player lays one card face down and turns up another, the player with the higher card of the second turn taking all the cards laid down.
an occasion in this game when both turned up cards match.
9.
Archaic. a battle.
verb (used without object), warred, warring.
10.
to make or carry on war; fight:
to war with a neighboring nation.
11.
to carry on active hostility or contention:
Throughout her life she warred with sin and corruption.
12.
to be in conflict or in a state of strong opposition:
The temptation warred with his conscience.
adjective
13.
of, belonging to, used in, or due to war:
war preparations; war hysteria.

[MrShwag]

Now back on ****ing topic.. It is very tragic that the criminal filth in this country is seemingly more empowered than ever to attack our amazing officers in blue. I for one look forward to a top-down leadership that upholds law & order and we start making our communities safer whatever the answer to that may be.

PS it's not ****ing "gun control". See Chicago if you need proof.

[Tomahawking4life]

MrShwag FTW! And lol at 57 for trying to turn this into a thread about the use of the word "war".

I also find the silence from the Obama administration on this to be completely unacceptable.

[thethe]

Now back on ****ing topic.. It is very tragic that the criminal filth in this country is seemingly more empowered than ever to attack our amazing officers in blue. I for one look forward to a top-down leadership that upholds law & order and we start making our communities safer whatever the answer to that may be.

PS it's not ****ing "gun control". See Chicago if you need proof.

Obamas America. One of the most disastrous presidencies of all time.

[AerchAngel]

Obamas America. One of the most disastrous presidencies of all time.

Trayvon could be my son.

Not to laugh about a young man dying, but him opening his trap about that and the professor incident and other things that happened makes you think everything was still okay.

Well to us blacks it is not. It has gotten worse for us and we are not happy with his results. Hillary paid the price for that. She can say "thanks Obama, you double crosser"

[thethe]

Trayvon could be my son.

Not to laugh about a young man dying, but him opening his trap about that and the professor incident and other things that happened makes you think everything was still okay.

Well to us blacks it is not. It has gotten worse for us and we are not happy with his results. Hillary paid the price for that. She can say "thanks Obama, you double crosser"

The lives of black people are unquestionably worse than what they were 8 years ago.

[Jaw]

Trayvon could be my son.

Not to laugh about a young man dying, but him opening his trap about that and the professor incident and other things that happened makes you think everything was still okay.

Well to us blacks it is not. It has gotten worse for us and we are not happy with his results. Hillary paid the price for that. She can say "thanks Obama, you double crosser"

He took a side in both cases, seemingly reflexively. I still think the best thing he could have done in either case, for everyone, was to say "Let's allow the investigation to play out." That would have been an indication that he would not take sides as long as things were on the up and up. I really believe his SJW reactions contributed to racial tension.

[The Chosen One]

The lives of black people are unquestionably worse than what they were 8 years ago.

:facepalm:

[mqt]

People who shoot police officers = Terrible people

Officers who shoot unarmed citizens = Somewhere on the spectrum between justified and terrible people depending on the case.

Obama has never encouraged people to shoot police officers, just as Trump will never encourage officers to shoot unarmed citizens. We need to find a long term solution for resolving these tensions in our country, and claiming that police are somehow above other citizens might not be the solution.

[AerchAngel]

:facepalm:

Stats don't lie

Word of mouth doesn't lie.

Education statistics don't lie.

They all gotten worse under him. Even black leaders are not happy with him. One said that he only cared about his "legacy" and nothing else.

[goldfly]

it's 2016 and facts obviously don't matter but here are some facts on your so called war that doesn't exist

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/police.jpg

https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/police1.jpg

Is there a “war on police” in America today? Most Americans think so, and that’s understandable given all of the media coverage of that topic. A Google news search finds 32,000 results for the phrase “war on cops” and another 12,100 results for “war on police,” with sensational headlines like “America’s War on Cops Intensifies” and [NYPD Commissioner] “Bratton Warns of Tough Times Ahead Due to ‘War on Cops’.” A recent Rasmussen poll found that 58% of likely US voters answered “Yes” to the question “Is there a war on police in America today?” and only 27% disagreed. But data on police shootings in America that were reported last week by The Guardian (“2015 May Be One of the Safest Years for Law Enforcement in a Quarter Century“) tell a much different story of increasing police safety.

According to data available from the “Officer Down Memorial Page” on the annual number of non-accidental, firearm-related police fatalities, 2015 is on track to be the safest year for law enforcement in the US since 1887

[Tomahawking4life]

News flash: We're not in 2015 anymore. 2016 is well above the 2015 total for cops killed.

6 officers in GA have been shot in the past 6 days.

Please, tell me more about how safe it is and that there isn't a war against them. Lol.

[Krgrecw]

News flash: We're not in 2015 anymore. 2016 is well above the 2015 total for cops killed.

6 officers in GA have been shot in the past 6 days.

Please, tell me more about how safe it is and that there isn't a war against them. Lol.


Those stats show deaths and not shootings . Big difference. The advancement of medicine and surgeries are the reason that police deaths by firearms have dropped. There's not a lack of shootings.

[thethe]

Not sure how you can take someone seriously when they try to make an argue there hasn't been a huge escalation of violence against police. Not only in crime but actual attitudes towards them.

A society that doesn't respect law and order is a society that is doomed to fail.

[goldfly]

News flash: We're not in 2015 anymore. 2016 is well above the 2015 total for cops killed.



weird, i know what the word continues means

i guess you didn't when you used it in the thread title

it would mean that you are saying it has been going on for a rather long time in case you didn't know

thus why you wouldn't just look at one year to see if this is something that has been going on for a while (aka thus continues to happen)

[Tomahawking4life]

And yet you just happen to single out 2015? Why not 2011? 2011 was one of the worst years of the decade for police shootings. So yes, continues....

But please keep telling me how safe it is for police officers.

[goldfly]

I showed you stats from 1870 to the most completed year

[Tomahawking4life]

I wonder why liberals like goldy and 57 have such a hard time admitting there's a war against police and a historic hatred towards law enforcement?

This shouldn't be a political issue.

[goldfly]

It's not a political issue

It's an issue of you not liking stats that overall doesn't point to a "war on cops"

But since you kind of brought it up there:

Do you think people just woke up today that never had a problem with cops and said "**** the police" or do you think it was years and years of being mistreated by some that made some people not trust them?

[goldfly]

Not sure how you can take someone seriously when they try to make an argue there hasn't been a huge escalation of violence against police. Not only in crime but actual attitudes towards them.

A society that doesn't respect law and order is a society that is doomed to fail.

weird to see a constitution guy like you, a 2nd amendment guy like you and a person who tried to tell me they are living in tyranny

then try to make that statement i just quoted

you do know what the 2nd amendment was put in there for and it wasn't to hunt deer?

either you are now willing to admit you don't really believe those things you said it was all hyperbole or you should be in line with these people killing the enforcers of the tyranny you are being forced to live under

that all matters if you really think we live in tyranny though

[cajunrevenge]

As far as I am concerned anyone who fights on the side of prohibition is not an innocent and not deserving of sympathy. All these officers shot would arrest me, put me in a cage, and try to make it much harder for me to get a job or education if they were standing next to me right now. Is it not logical for me to hope they get got? These people are part of the system that holds 25% of all the prisoners in the world. If Russia had that kind of stat we would be using it as proof of how Authoritarian their government is. We look down on Saudia Arabia for their arbitrary laws but would we not support a female armed uprising against their local cops?



I want there to be a war on cops, but none of these shootings are a part of that. 2 of them seemed to be actual realndangerous criminals and the other the cops broke into a home in the middle of the night recklessly endangering numerous people including themselves and a 1 month old baby. Now that baby might be traumatized, gather is dead, mom probably has no income now. All over drugs. Who wins here? Who wins even if there was no violence and they just were able to arrest him? What end does this means justify. I do drugs. It's not good for you. If we could permanent root it out I would say it would probably be great for society overall, but it's not. It's unwinnable and in the process we are destroying millions of lives and overall lowering everyone's quality of life.

[Garmel]

Those stats show deaths and not shootings . Big difference. The advancement of medicine and surgeries are the reason that police deaths by firearms have dropped. There's not a lack of shootings.

That and the addition of body armor have reduced deaths over the years.

[Tomahawking4life]

Is it not logical for me to hope they get got?



I want there to be a war on cops.

Wow.

This is one of the more disturbing and sad things I've read on this forum.

[Krgrecw]

Wow.

This is one of the more disturbing and sad things I've read on this forum.

Have you never read his anti-cops, pro-drug use posts before?

[Tomahawking4life]

Have you never read his anti-cops, pro-drug use posts before?

Anti Cop is one thing.

Openly hoping they get killed is pathetic and disgusting.

[jpx7]

none of these shootings are a part of that. 2 of them seemed to be actual realndangerous criminals and the other the cops broke into a home in the middle of the night recklessly endangering numerous people including themselves and a 1 month old baby. Now that baby might be traumatized, gather is dead, mom probably has no income now. All over drugs. Who wins here? Who wins even if there was no violence and they just were able to arrest him? What end does this means justify.

I'm not in favor of a violent war on police (which I don't think is really happening, as per any statistic you look at), but this part of the post is spot-on.

[The Chosen One]

Stats don't lie

Word of mouth doesn't lie.

Education statistics don't lie.

They all gotten worse under him. Even black leaders are not happy with him. One said that he only cared about his "legacy" and nothing else.

lol Obama was f--cked from the getgo by his critics.

If he shows partialness to wanting to help black people what do you think the professional conservatives would have said to attack him and rally around?

"He doesn't care about others he's dividing the country by only caring about blacks. He needs to focus on all Americans"

If he walks the tightrope by not trying to be too biased towards blacks but with everyone:

"He doesn't care about the black community, he's left you behind. He's done absolutely nothing".


These are the facts. People will criticize him regardless of what he did. The fact he said Trayvon could be my son and people got riled up is evidence people thought Trayvon was at fault that night and Obama was playing the race card. With Zimmerman we have evidence of a history of erratic behavior. The 911 call he made "they always get away with this" was disturbing. The fact people have defended him since with his domestic abuse charges and stuff really really just pisses me off

The truth is, people don't see the heroic work being done in black communities. Work I do and others that have been inspired by Obama to work in urban communities and help underprivileged. It happens everyday. It doesn't get reported. We don't care if it gets reported.

[The Chosen One]

And since we're going with stats.

THere's a higher chance of dying from stuff at home and random stuff than actually getting killed by a Muslim attack in our country... but we know which subject gets debated to death.

[The Chosen One]

I wonder why liberals like goldy and 57 have such a hard time admitting there's a war against police and a historic hatred towards law enforcement?

This shouldn't be a political issue.

Because there isn't a war on police.

There is a stigma against police because of unwarranted deaths in police custody the last few years yes.

There are no captains and leaders calling for people to shoot police. These are random radical people going out and attacking.

BlackLivesMatter isn't telling people to shoot police.

Once people start seeing accountability they'll trust the system more. Such as the firefighter in Savannah a year ago that was waiving a gun at a black couple at Applebee's and showed his badge and said see this, this gives me the right to kill you n---ers. No word from the DA, until the law firm representing the couple made a viral video about the story. That was exactly one year frmo the incident the DA was dragging their feet about this.
http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/2016-12-08/ex-savannah-firefighter-indicted-restaurant-assault-black-couple

The guy choked to death in New York... if you believe the police had no fault or screwed that up...

[thethe]

There were groups of people marching down the streets, "What do we want? DEAD COPS! When do we want it? NOW!"

[thethe]

And since we're going with stats.

THere's a higher chance of dying from stuff at home and random stuff than actually getting killed by a Muslim attack in our country... but we know which subject gets debated to death.

In our country being the operative word. Look around the world. Thinking that we are forever sage in our country is naiive.

[Oklahomahawk]

There were groups of people marching down the streets, "What do we want? DEAD COPS! When do we want it? NOW!"

This is a bull**** thing to do, I don't care who does it or when they do it. I take the side of the victims when I think the cops have screwed up, but this sort of thing is NEVER OK. And for those who may still not have seen some police misconduct where race wasn't an issue, check

this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYop6LssgVg) out.

[The Chosen One]

And I'm sure nearly all of us have encountered a cop who thought they were hot sh-- and could do whatever they felt.

Toma is a policeman so of course he's going to have a police bias.

[The Chosen One]

This is a bull**** thing to do, I don't care who does it or when they do it. I take the side of the victims when I think the cops have screwed up, but this sort of thing is NEVER OK. And for those who may still not have seen some police misconduct where race wasn't an issue, check

this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYop6LssgVg) out.


http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/11/mearkle_verdict.html

So sad

Mearkle, 37, shot and killed 59-year-old David Kassick in February after he fled from her attempt to stop him for an expired auto inspection sticker. The fatal encounter occurred in back of the South Hanover Township home of Kassick's sister.

Died because of an expired auto inspection sticker... unbelievable.

[Oklahomahawk]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/11/mearkle_verdict.html

So sad


Died because of an expired auto inspection sticker... unbelievable.

Dare I say it, "bastard had it coming"?

[weso1]

And since we're going with stats.

THere's a higher chance of dying from stuff at home and random stuff than actually getting killed by a Muslim attack in our country... but we know which subject gets debated to death.

Hmm.. I wonder what other stat has a similarly low death rate, yet is also debated to death.

Although the stat you mentioned is low mainly because of the fact that its so ardently fought against. Just imagine if we just kind of ignored the threat of islamic radicalism just because the death rate due to it is low. It would probably be a lot higher. For the stat I implied the death rate is incredibly low, before it's supposedly being fought against.

[weso1]

It's not a political issue

It's an issue of you not liking stats that overall doesn't point to a "war on cops"


Cops have a significantly better chance of being killed in the line of duty than does an unarmed black man being killed by a cop. Isn't it then safe to say that the hyberbole of "war on cops" is more accurate than some of the hyperbole of the black lives matter movement?

[weso1]

Because there isn't a war on police.

There is a stigma against police because of unwarranted deaths in police custody the last few years yes.

There are no captains and leaders calling for people to shoot police. These are random radical people going out and attacking.

BlackLivesMatter isn't telling people to shoot police.

Once people start seeing accountability they'll trust the system more. Such as the firefighter in Savannah a year ago that was waiving a gun at a black couple at Applebee's and showed his badge and said see this, this gives me the right to kill you n---ers. No word from the DA, until the law firm representing the couple made a viral video about the story. That was exactly one year frmo the incident the DA was dragging their feet about this.
http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/2016-12-08/ex-savannah-firefighter-indicted-restaurant-assault-black-couple

The guy choked to death in New York... if you believe the police had no fault or screwed that up...

There's a stigma on police based on anecdotal evidence like what you just cited. But the general statistics don't match up with the idea that there's this huge race problem in regards to policing when you consider the undeniable fact that blacks commit a significantly disproportionate amount of violent crime.

[57Brave]

There's a stigma on police based on anecdotal evidence ... when you consider the undeniable fact that blacks commit a significantly disproportionate amount of violent crime.

Why and why ?

[goldfly]

general statistics don't match up with the idea that there's this huge race problem in regards to policing when you consider the undeniable fact that blacks commit a significantly disproportionate amount of violent crime.

12% of the USA population
37% of the Prison population

those numbers just don't add up and weird if you dig deeper. i mean, are you just saying black people are just more violent in their core or do you think there are other things at play and maybe, just maybe there is a problem with regards to policing and race?

[thethe]

12% of the USA population
37% of the Prison population

those numbers just don't add up and weird if you dig deeper. i mean, are you just saying black people are just more violent in their core or do you think there are other things at play and maybe, just maybe there is a problem with regards to policing and race?

I wouldn't say at their core blacks are more violent but all the stats can't be discounted by just possible racisim. That's just a real lazy way to identify the issues and unfortunately it has given a cop out for a lot of people to give up.

[weso1]

12% of the USA population
37% of the Prison population

those numbers just don't add up and weird if you dig deeper. i mean, are you just saying black people are just more violent in their core or do you think there are other things at play and maybe, just maybe there is a problem with regards to policing and race?

You're comparing the wrong numbers. The comparison should be what percentage of crime is committed by blacks compared to prison population of blacks, not just general population. Blacks commit 40-50% of violent crime in this country. I guess that's considered a hate fact, but it's one that can't be ignored. I don't really see how police are forcing blacks to kill each other.

[weso1]

Why and why ?

Because the liberal media pushes every race story they can find and in poor black neighborhoods blacks are brain washed into believing that cops have it in for them. I also think social media has really been pushing this narrative the past few years. Also, black men interact with police more on the whole, because a disproportionate number of black people live in high violent crime areas, where police presence is heavy. I will say that I do think profiling exists, but I also think its defensible given the highly disproportionate crime rates.

Many factors play a role in why they commit more crime. While it's true that generally speaking black people have higher testosterone levels and lower IQ's, I don't think this makes a significant difference in regards to crime rates. I think the best correlations are not having two loving parents, income level, a disciplined education, welfare, etc. I don't think racism plays a significant role. Black crime rates were much lower many years ago, back when racism was much more widespread and significant.

[Jaw]

I've lived in ghettos and trailer parks. The trailer parks weren't much less violent than the ghettos. That has always made me feel like violent crime is driven by poverty instead of race.

I think two things combine to form a lot of the prison - race gap. Blacks, unfortunately, are still more likely to be in poverty, and impoverished blacks are more likely to live in densely populated (hence, more heavily policed) areas.

[weso1]

I've lived in ghettos and trailer parks. The trailer parks weren't much less violent than the ghettos. That has always made me feel like violent crime is driven by poverty instead of race.

I think two things combine to form a lot of the prison - race gap. Blacks, unfortunately, are still more likely to be in poverty, and impoverished blacks are more likely to live in densely populated (hence, more heavily policed) areas.

The correlation between race and violent crime is nearly double that of income and violent crime. And these correlations parallel with general crime. Poverty certainly plays a role in crime rates, but it's only a piece of the puzzle. Population density has nothing to do with violent crime arrests. There's no significant difference between races when it comes to police reports and subsequent convictions of violent offenders.

[57Brave]

While it's true that generally speaking black people have higher testosterone levels and lower IQ's, I don't think this makes a significant difference in regards to crime rates. .

Really - how about swimming ---- can they swim yet ?

I can't believe in 2016 someone would write such a thing and try to pass it off as thoughtful discourse

[weso1]

Really - how about swimming ---- can they swim yet ?

I can't believe in 2016 someone would write such a thing and try to pass it off as thoughtful discourse

Ah... you need a safe space?

[thethe]

Are there actual studies that have proved that statement Weso?

[weso1]

Are there actual studies that have proved that statement Weso?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3455741

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/Race-differences-in-average-IQ-are-largely-genetic.aspx

[57Brave]

would that explain why the black has more rhythm than whites, higher testosterone levels ?

and better at field work ?

but I still don't understand that swimming thing
....

Should we worry about their testosterone levels when the black sides with Omar in the war over Sharia Law ?

.....

As far as intelligence, the same article you posted shows an argument that chimpanzee's in some cases test higher than humans.
Both European and sub Saharan

[Jaw]

The correlation between race and violent crime is nearly double that of income and violent crime. And these correlations parallel with general crime. Poverty certainly plays a role in crime rates, but it's only a piece of the puzzle. Population density has nothing to do with violent crime arrests. There's no significant difference between races when it comes to police reports and subsequent convictions of violent offenders.

The police being 3 minutes away or 20 minutes away absolutely has a bearing on the number of violent crime arrests. Not on the number of crimes committed, but absolutely on the number of arrests made.

[goldfly]

Blacks commit 40-50% of violent crime in this country. I guess that's considered a hate fact, but it's one that can't be ignored.

i've never heard the term hate fact

facts are facts

[weso1]

The police being 3 minutes away or 20 minutes away absolutely has a bearing on the number of violent crime arrests. Not on the number of crimes committed, but absolutely on the number of arrests made.

What's your evidence? When comparing actual convictions with the National Crime Victimization Survey, there's no significant discrepancy. I would actually think it would be easier to find a violent criminal suspect in a less dense population.

It should be pointed out that any of the crime stats I mention aren't based on arrest records, but are based on the victimization reports. So, any arrest biases are irrelevant.

[Jaw]

Only anecdotal evidence. I've seen several offenses where the police weren't called because the issue would be over before the police arrived. In a heavily patrolled area, those crimes may have been reported, or a patrolling officer may have seen it themselves.

For the record, I am generally in strong support of the police. I just don't like that this thread was starting to make it sound like black people are bad, or more likely to be bad. I have had way too much experience that is counter to that. Poor people are more likely to bad things. Desperate people are more likely to bad things. Drug addicts are more likely to do bad things. Kids from broken homes are more likely to be bad.

I would much rather the conversation be framed in those terms than by casting the actions of some on an entire skin color.

[Oklahomahawk]

For the record, I am generally in strong support of the police. I just don't like that this thread was starting to make it sound like black people are bad, or more likely to be bad. I have had way too much experience that is counter to that. Poor people are more likely to bad things. Desperate people are more likely to bad things. Drug addicts are more likely to do bad things. Kids from broken homes are more likely to be bad.

OK, I'm gonna have to throw a flag on this one. 15 yards for unnecessary and excessive truth/facts in one post. Try not to let this happen again!!

[The Chosen One]

For the record, I am generally in strong support of the police. I just don't like that this thread was starting to make it sound like black people are bad, or more likely to be bad.

I would much rather the conversation be framed in those terms than by casting the actions of some on an entire skin color.

Coincidentally this was partly why I banned Toma for a month. He was making threads with the sole intention to troll and provoke incindiary comments on issues like this.

The second I saw this thread title I knew this was going to go downhill fast.

[cajunrevenge]

Anti Cop is one thing.

Openly hoping they get killed is pathetic and disgusting.


These same officers would high 5 each other and go home thinking they did a great job if they through a flashbang through my window in the middle of the night and threatened to kill me so they can throw me in a cage because I smoke pot. They would consider my pain and misery from being arrested by them as a good thing. You can think in crazy but to me it's crazy to support the well being of those who seek to deny my freedom. These people want to make a slave out of me and I am supposed to root for them? **** that.



Law enforcement is only as noble as the laws they enforce. If a gay guy in Russia kills 2 cops trying to arrest him for being gay who is the bad guy? How about a cop who arrests a woman for driving in Saudia Arabia? Is it noble to enforce a law because a Senator gets big campaign donations from a private prison? Quite frankly I think this war on drugs is the Holocaust in slow motion and I refuse to mourn for the soldiers enforcing immoral laws. They aren't here to serve and protect me, they are here to arrest, fine, and incarcerate me.

[AerchAngel]

Only anecdotal evidence. I've seen several offenses where the police weren't called because the issue would be over before the police arrived. In a heavily patrolled area, those crimes may have been reported, or a patrolling officer may have seen it themselves.

For the record, I am generally in strong support of the police. I just don't like that this thread was starting to make it sound like black people are bad, or more likely to be bad. I have had way too much experience that is counter to that. Poor people are more likely to bad things. Desperate people are more likely to bad things. Drug addicts are more likely to do bad things. Kids from broken homes are more likely to be bad.

I would much rather the conversation be framed in those terms than by casting the actions of some on an entire skin color.

Problem is that both parties ignores blacks "issues". One want to exploit while the other tries to make it harder for them to be accepted in society as an equal.

It has been this way forever.

Until those two stigmas go away, we will be the most violent sect of society in America. Is there a way to fix it? Not in this generation but the current president does nothing had done nothing but could have at least initiated a spark and the black leaders can't do anything without him, so we are just spinning our wheels anjd still talking about it today. What is troubling, we have gotten worse not better since he has been in office, crime, education, income? Not better at all.

[cajunrevenge]

Also, we're the blacks responsible for all the violence during alcohol prohibition?

[weso1]

For the record, I am generally in strong support of the police. I just don't like that this thread was starting to make it sound like black people are bad, or more likely to be bad. I have had way too much experience that is counter to that. Poor people are more likely to bad things. Desperate people are more likely to bad things. Drug addicts are more likely to do bad things. Kids from broken homes are more likely to be bad.

I would much rather the conversation be framed in those terms than by casting the actions of some on an entire skin color.

I would love to do away with identity and tribal politics. My arguments are a response to the black lives matter arguments, which I think are mostly anecdotal and overall unhelpful. But I agree that the real issue revolves around broken homes and issues like that and not skin color. There is a victim culture that needs fixing.

[AerchAngel]

I guess black lives matters not to the president.

This is how I view the president and his policies towards blacks.....dead on. (http://www.blackpressusa.com/is-black-america-better-off-under-obama/)

And this is what troubles the Black leaders the most: But the president appears to be unwilling to use the full power of his office to push targeted policy to assist African Americans as he has done for Latinos, gays and lesbians, and other groups.


Sav, not only stats but you have leaders that disagree with the assessment we were better under Obama. It is written on the wall. He failed in the most important areas and actually we were worse off. After hearing it from family members and others finally there are a lot of articles pointing to this. I found this one because it is from a black person, not a faux news site that tells the truth. Stats will back up the other things you've seemed to miss.

[The Chosen One]

Who are these leaders?

[Krgrecw]

I guess black lives matters not to the president.

This is how I view the president and his policies towards blacks.....dead on. (http://www.blackpressusa.com/is-black-america-better-off-under-obama/)

And this is what troubles the Black leaders the most: But the president appears to be unwilling to use the full power of his office to push targeted policy to assist African Americans as he has done for Latinos, gays and lesbians, and other groups.


Sav, not only stats but you have leaders that disagree with the assessment we were better under Obama. It is written on the wall. He failed in the most important areas and actually we were worse off. After hearing it from family members and others finally there are a lot of articles pointing to this. I found this one because it is from a black person, not a faux news site that tells the truth. Stats will back up the other things you've seemed to miss.


Did this really surprise you?

[AerchAngel]

Who are these leaders?

Illinois Black Caucus, the ones that challenged him on the Same Sex Marriage, one my pastor growing up is part of. He is part of the "establishment" Illinois blacks. The most frustrating thing to them is the black on black crime has gotten out of hand on top of educational gap widening, lack of jobs, lack of initiative, lack of a lot of things. Some of it is our own fault because we were giving everything just to survive and rely on it as a crutch.

Stats don't lie. Look them up yourself from INDEPENDENT sites.

A lot of articles pointing to this from other blacks journalist/columnists and some Left wing sites. I do not go to Right Wing sites for facts but willing to go to Left Wing sites when they actually tell the real truth and not hand-spun garbage to make their party look good.

Trump promise to do something and be more assertive than Obama. If he does, which I don't have faith in, do what he say he will do, that legacy Obama trying obtain will go down the crapper faster than Toma s*itting in a toilet with his posts.

[AerchAngel]

Oh and the article mentioned it as well about Black Leaders. There are many more articles that says the same things that they are not happy about how much he has ignored our "race" but laps up all the other minority/gender policies in lieu of us, the ones that voted for him at a 97% rate.

[57Brave]

I guess black lives matters not to the president.

This is how I view the president and his policies towards blacks.....dead on. (http://www.blackpressusa.com/is-black-america-better-off-under-obama/)

And this is what troubles the Black leaders the most: But the president appears to be unwilling to use the full power of his office to push targeted policy to assist African Americans as he has done for Latinos, gays and lesbians, and other groups.


Sav, not only stats but you have leaders that disagree with the assessment we were better under Obama. It is written on the wall. He failed in the most important areas and actually we were worse off. After hearing it from family members and others finally there are a lot of articles pointing to this. I found this one because it is from a black person, not a faux news site that tells the truth. Stats will back up the other things you've seemed to miss.

The first stat on the link provided had to do with jobless "the black"
Let's first address that:
.....
NYT September 12, 2011

WASHINGTON—President Obama sent his jobs bill to Congress on Monday, urging lawmakers to put aside “political games” and pass the $447 billion plan meant to increase hiring as the government struggles to curtail persistent high unemployment.

But just two hours after Mr. Obama, flanked by firefighters, construction workers and teachers in the Rose Garden, waved a copy of the jobs plan and issued his call for bipartisanship, Republicans took aim at the White House plan to pay for the jobs initiative through tax increases on more affluent Americans, most of them tax increases previously rejected by lawmakers.

White House officials said they nonetheless believed the proposal could pass Congress. The White House press secretary, Jay Carney, said administration officials had seen “some conciliatory messaging from some members of Congress” since lawmakers returned from their summer recess after presumably getting an earful from voters fed up with the political brinkmanship that characterized the negotiations over the debt ceiling.

“We have some indication that the message of the American people is being heard by members of Congress,” Mr. Carney said.

Congressional Republicans were not, however, sounding that conciliatory; they promptly fired off e-mails to let their displeasure with the idea of tax increases be known. “Beware the Tax Man,” was the subject line in an e-mail from one House Republican staff member. Brendan Buck, spokesman for Speaker John A. Boehner, Republican of Ohio, added his own quick reaction, criticizing the proposal as one that “doesn’t appear to have been offered in that bipartisan spirit.”

In a news briefing with reporters on Monday, Representative Eric Cantor, the Virginia Republican and House majority leader, took pains to say that he was open to the president’s legislative proposals. But he made clear that if they are paid for primarily through tax increases, Republicans would not be going along.

“I sure hope that the president is not suggesting that we pay for his proposals with a massive tax increase at the end of 2012 on job creators,” Mr. Cantor said.

If Mr. Obama’s bill resembled the 2009 stimulus plan, he said, “I don’t believe that our members are going to be interested in pursuing that; I certainly am not.”

The White House budget director, Jack Lew, said the bulk of the plan — some $400 billion — would be paid for by limiting itemized deductions for charitable contributions and other deductions claimed by individuals making more than $200,000 a year and families making at least $250,000 annually. Another $40 billion would come from closing loopholes for oil and gas companies and $3 billion would come from additional taxes on corporate jets. Fund managers would pay $18 billion in higher taxes on certain income.

Mr. Lew said the new Congressional committee charged with finding $1.2 trillion in savings this year as part of the agreement to raise the debt ceiling would have the option of accepting the payment proposals submitted by Mr. Obama, or proposing new ones of their own.

The American Jobs Act, which the president unveiled Thursday, would cut some taxes through an extension and expansion of the current reduction in payroll taxes, worth $240 billion. Smaller businesses would also get a cut in their share of payroll taxes, as well as a tax holiday for hiring new workers. The plan also provides $140 billion for modernizing schools and repairing roads and bridges — spending that Mr. Obama says is critical to maintaining economic competitiveness.

The administration has pointed to forecasts from economists that the mix of tax cuts and new spending would spur growth and appreciably reduce the jobless rate. Mr. Carney on Monday declined to forecast the actual number of additional jobs that the White House anticipates could come if Congress enacts the jobs bill.

“On Thursday, I told Congress that I’ll be sending them a bill called the American Jobs Act,” Mr. Obama said during Rose Garden remarks on Monday morning, holding up the proposal. “Well, here it is.” He said that American voters could not afford to wait 14 months until the next election for lawmakers to act.

He sounded what is clearly going to be a central theme for this fall, as he strikes out into the country to sell his jobs proposal to Americans (he is going to Mr. Boehner’s home state, Ohio, on Tuesday in a visit to Columbus, and to Raleigh, N.C., on Wednesday): “Let’s pass this bill,” Mr. Obama said several times during his remarks.

But while the president’s new mantra is “pass this bill now,” the legislation’s fate seems more along the lines of, pass some of this bill at some point, maybe.

Democrats in the Senate plan to try to move ahead with Mr. Obama’s bill, once its costs have been evaluated by the Congressional Budget Office, sometime over the course of the coming weeks. It is far from clear the bill can pass that chamber even with the Senate under Democratic control. A combination of Republicans put off by tax increases and Democrats who are in tough re-election battles could leave the measure short of the 60 votes needed to clear procedural obstacles.

Republicans will almost certainly not bring the White House bill to the floor of the House, where its chances for approval are even more remote. In fact, Mr. Cantor even found fault with Mr. Obama’s new mantra. “To say ‘pass my bill’ 17 times is not the tone nor is it a way forward for us that will be acceptable to the American people,” he said. And Mr. Boehner promised Monday that the proposal would receive vigorous Republican review.

Turning complaints Democrats have made all year about Republican unwillingness to compromise back on the White House, Congressional Republicans are now saying that Mr. Obama is being too inflexible, and that they will instead pick off pieces of the legislation to wind through their committees and come to possible separate votes. Those elements of his plan that could pass muster include the extension of a payroll tax holiday for employees and small businesses as well as an extension of unemployment benefits

[57Brave]

Yes, I can see where Black unemployment rose 2 %.
There are not the jobs in urban America there were 35-50 years ago.
For a multitude of reasons


We could go back and forth on the merits of the above legislation proposed but blaming Obama and laying Black unemployment at his feet denies the history . And is a recreation of the narrative to fit a false agenda.

Like another poster points out, there are facts and things that happened and a record
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jobs_Act

Granted there is plenty of political blame to go around but saying Obama has done nothing to improve the plight of Black Americans is just not true

Reading the article further I see where poverty, the Wealth Gap, Income Equality, Education and Small Busines loans are brought up.
" But the president appears to be unwilling to use the full power of his office to push targeted policy to assist African Americans as he has done for Latinos, gays and lesbians, and other groups. "

Really ?
.........

Let me say one more thing, I have always thought Obama's toughest opponent was peoples expectations of Obama
That doesn't seem the be an issue with his successor

[cajunrevenge]

When you look at black unemployment don't forget to add all the prisoners. Throwing **** loads of black people in prison makes their unemployment stats lower, it's the Clintons strategy. They boast of low black unemployment but when you add all the black "super predators" they brought to "heel" by throwing them in prison they actually had sky high unemployment. Unless you consider slavery be a job.

[Tomahawking4life]

Another one...Smh:

MOUNT VERNON, Wash. – A Mount Vernon police officer was shot Thursday evening.

One male officer was shot in the back of the head and taken to Harborview Medical Center. He underwent surgery, is stable, and is in serious condition.

Police said the suspect is "a violent offender and well known to law enforcement." He has been firing shots at a SWAT vehicle outside the home throughout the evening.

[Jaw]

These same officers would high 5 each other and go home thinking they did a great job if they through a flashbang through my window in the middle of the night and threatened to kill me so they can throw me in a cage because I smoke pot. They would consider my pain and misery from being arrested by them as a good thing. You can think in crazy but to me it's crazy to support the well being of those who seek to deny my freedom. These people want to make a slave out of me and I am supposed to root for them? **** that.



To be fair, you are making the choice to break the laws that our society have decided are appropriate. The police vowed to enforce the laws that our society have decided are appropriate. Don't act like the Gestapo is going to drag you from your house in the dark of night for unknown reasons. You know the possible consequences of your actions, you choose to continue those actions. Taking responsibility for your own actions is part of being an adult. Buck up.

[goldfly]

To be fair, you are making the choice to break the laws that our society have decided are appropriate. The police vowed to enforce the laws that our society have decided are appropriate. Don't act like the Gestapo is going to drag you from your house in the dark of night for unknown reasons. You know the possible consequences of your actions, you choose to continue those actions. Taking responsibility for your own actions is part of being an adult. Buck up.

you can just as easily say it's the other persons responsibility to not enforce unjust laws

and i will take it a step further:

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

[zitothebrave]

64 cops shot and killed, they've shot and killed 914 civilians. THey're kicking some serious ass in this war.

[weso1]

you can just as easily say it's the other persons responsibility to not enforce unjust laws

and i will take it a step further:

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

I agree that we need less laws in this country.

[weso1]

64 cops shot and killed, they've shot and killed 914 civilians. THey're kicking some serious ass in this war.

Not if you go by percentages. And especially not if you continue to dig into this incredibly shallow statistical argument you made by not considering multiple factors. I mean, how many truly innocent people are shot by cops every year? I bet the number is around ten.

I'm guessing you're one of those who loves the new wave feminist argument that women make 77 cents on the dollar compared to men.

[cajunrevenge]

Yeah, just sprinkle some Crack on em after you murder em so you can say he wasn't truly innocent.

[zitothebrave]

Not if you go by percentages. And especially not if you continue to dig into this incredibly shallow statistical argument you made by not considering multiple factors. I mean, how many truly innocent people are shot by cops every year? I bet the number is around ten.

I'm guessing you're one of those who loves the new wave feminist argument that women make 77 cents on the dollar compared to men.

1 innocent person shot by cops is too much.

Don't get me wrong. COps don't deserve to die either. But they're way too gun happy. Not to mention the convoluted nature of laws today, anyone can be breaking the law and make one wrong move and get shot.

[goldfly]

I agree that we need less laws in this country.

i agree

we need to get rid of some laws

[goldfly]

Not if you go by percentages. And especially not if you continue to dig into this incredibly shallow statistical argument you made by not considering multiple factors. I mean, how many truly innocent people are shot by cops every year? I bet the number is around ten.


can you prove that all the cops are innocent and it wasn't just a person enforcing their 2nd amendment rights against tyranny?

[cajunrevenge]

To be fair, you are making the choice to break the laws that our society have decided are appropriate. The police vowed to enforce the laws that our society have decided are appropriate. Don't act like the Gestapo is going to drag you from your house in the dark of night for unknown reasons. You know the possible consequences of your actions, you choose to continue those actions. Taking responsibility for your own actions is part of being an adult. Buck up.


Ok, so i am a criminal, a bad guy, deserves to be locked up. If that is true, why should I support police officers? Less of them the safer I am.



History is going to be the judge of who the good guys and bad guys are. Prohibition is gaining momentum and we are going to win the war on drugs. They used to say "it can't happen here", in a few more generations they will be using the war on drugs as an example of how it did happen here. Legalization has been nothing but an overwhelming success everywhere it has been tried. We could have gotten there 10-20 years earlier if not for strong opposition by police unions. That's 500k people every year being arrested for pot possession. The victims of those arrests is a lot more than just those arrested. It's families torn apart. Kids growing up with no father. These people have to suffer. Why? Because legalization means less overtime for cops? No more big money federal grants to buy tanks? BECAUSE WE MIGHT NOT NEED AS MANY POLICE OFFICERS WITHOUT A WAR TO FIGHT? The police of today attesting people for weed are no better than the police who beat black people trying to get equal rights many years ago. They weren't the good guys then and they aren't the good guys now. Morality does not change based on what a beuracrat legislates.

[Jaw]

I never made an argument for or against legalization. I said you shouldn't be surprised when law enforcement officers do the job of enforcing the law. And you certainly shouldn't blame them for the law. This nonsense anarchist talk about not enforcing "immoral" laws is so much hogwash. Lawmakers get paid to make the laws, police get paid to enforce them.

Don't shift the blame to the cops just because you can't win with the lawmakers.

[goldfly]

I never made an argument for or against legalization. I said you shouldn't be surprised when law enforcement officers do the job of enforcing the law. And you certainly shouldn't blame them for the law. This nonsense anarchist talk about not enforcing "immoral" laws is so much hogwash. Lawmakers get paid to make the laws, police get paid to enforce them.

Don't shift the blame to the cops just because you can't win with the lawmakers.

that quote is from a founder of the USA

[Jaw]

that quote is from a founder of the USA

He was human, he was capable of mistakes.

[goldfly]

He was human, he was capable of mistakes.

no ****

he was a slave owner and wrote the 2nd amendment

[cajunrevenge]

I never made an argument for or against legalization. I said you shouldn't be surprised when law enforcement officers do the job of enforcing the law. And you certainly shouldn't blame them for the law. This nonsense anarchist talk about not enforcing "immoral" laws is so much hogwash. Lawmakers get paid to make the laws, police get paid to enforce them.

Don't shift the blame to the cops just because you can't win with the lawmakers.

http://sobadsogood.com/2015/09/19/laughable-anti-marijuana-propaganda-from-1930s/



I might agree with you if we did not lead the world in incarceration. 25% of the world's prisoners with only 5% of the population. If that's the nation we want to be then we need to stop teaching all that freedom Bull**** in school. Martin Luther King Jr, law breaker, should have been in prison. George Washington, traitor to his government and mass murderer. If resisting a law born through government propoganda and racism that is used to mass.incarcerate non violent people makes me the bad guy in your eyes then so be it.

[Jaw]

So you not being able to smoke up is equivalent to denying an entire race the right to vote, sit on a bus, or go to college?

I disagree.

[Krgrecw]

So you not being able to smoke up is equivalent to denying an entire race the right to vote, sit on a bus, or go to college?

I disagree.

Cajuns all about smoking up

[sturg33]

So you not being able to smoke up is equivalent to denying an entire race the right to vote, sit on a bus, or go to college?

I disagree.

I don't understand how it's anyone's business to tell me what I can or can't do. How is that freedom?

[Krgrecw]

I don't understand how it's anyone's business to tell me what I can or can't do. How is that freedom?

I agree but when one is ****ed up and goes out in public it is everyone's business.

[sturg33]

I agree but when one is ****ed up and goes out in public it is everyone's business.

And how is that different than alcohol?

[cajunrevenge]

I agree but when one is ****ed up and goes out in public it is everyone's business.


Maybe while driving, other than that how does it affect you? Pot impares you about as much as talking on the phone while driving does. I have gotten high enough that I shouldn't drive, but then I also couldn't get to my car even if I wanted to. It is umpteen million times safer than alcohol.

[Jaw]

I don't understand how it's anyone's business to tell me what I can or can't do. How is that freedom?

I have no problem with this view. I have a problem with the idea that cops are corrupt for enforcing the law. We have ways of changing laws here.

[smootness]

When you look at black unemployment don't forget to add all the prisoners. Throwing **** loads of black people in prison makes their unemployment stats lower, it's the Clintons strategy. They boast of low black unemployment but when you add all the black "super predators" they brought to "heel" by throwing them in prison they actually had sky high unemployment. Unless you consider slavery be a job.

This is only the case if the ones you're throwing in prison are already unemployed at a higher rate than the rest of the population. Is that what you're saying?

Just two general thoughts after reading through this thread:

Jaws - spot on.

cajunrevenge - holy crap, man, it's honestly difficult for me to grasp someone actually sharing those thoughts out publicly in any forum. Your entire argument is basically, 'I'm a criminal, so of course I want cops dead.' If you have a real problem with the laws, your issue is with the ones who make the laws, not those who enforce them.

[smootness]

you can just as easily say it's the other persons responsibility to not enforce unjust laws

and i will take it a step further:

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

We're arguing over drugs, though. Goodness. It's not as though we're talking about whether it should be a law that people speaking out against the government are imprisoned and tortured.

You can believe the war on drugs has been counterproductive and that it is a net negative on society to imprison so many drug offenders, but 'unjust'? Prohibition was dumb, but was it unjust? Are you suggesting that it is the obligation of citizens to buy, sell, and use drugs because the war on drugs is a bad idea?

[cajunrevenge]

What's your view on cops raiding medical dispensaries in states where it was voted legal? Or any dispensary that was opened legally according to state law and voted.on by the public?

[smootness]

Not if you go by percentages. And especially not if you continue to dig into this incredibly shallow statistical argument you made by not considering multiple factors. I mean, how many truly innocent people are shot by cops every year? I bet the number is around ten.

I'm guessing you're one of those who loves the new wave feminist argument that women make 77 cents on the dollar compared to men.

Uh, then shouldn't we use percentages on the number of cops who have killed an innocent person vs. people who have killed cops as well?

[cajunrevenge]

This is only the case if the ones you're throwing in prison are already unemployed at a higher rate than the rest of the population. Is that what you're saying?


cajunrevenge - holy crap, man, it's honestly difficult for me to grasp someone actually sharing those thoughts out publicly in any forum. Your entire argument is basically, 'I'm a criminal, so of course I want cops dead.' If you have a real problem with the laws, your issue is with the ones who make the laws, not those who enforce them.


I don't have the numbers in front of me but I think blacks had a much higher unemployment rate. Specifically non college educated blacks.




To the other stuff, I don't consider myself a criminal but the officers that were shot consider me one. That makes them a threat to my safety and we'll being. I can't grasp the concept of why I would want someone who is a threat to my safety good health.



If cops are so about that law enforcement, so Gung how about sending people to prison for weed, then why do they never turn in their own kids for drugs. There's about 900k cops last I heard, none of them thought arrest and jail was the answer to their own kids drug problems. They know it's wrong. They know it hurts everyone involved.


I would have a lot more sympathy for cops if they did not actively lie and deceive the public. They are fear mongers who played on people's blind trust in law enforcement to advance their own financial interests. When their union pays big money to a prohibitionist candidate that is not being forced to uphold the law. That's influencing the law. I blame politicians fine. My hatred for the Clintons and their crime bill of mass destruction is something I am very vocal about.

[goldfly]

We're arguing over drugs, though. Goodness. It's not as though we're talking about whether it should be a law that people speaking out against the government are imprisoned and tortured.

You can believe the war on drugs has been counterproductive and that it is a net negative on society to imprison so many drug offenders, but 'unjust'? Prohibition was dumb, but was it unjust? Are you suggesting that it is the obligation of citizens to buy, sell, and use drugs because the war on drugs is a bad idea?

we lock up people for long periods of time for a plant that grows wild and doesn't kill anyone

yes, i would say it is unjust

[Tomahawking4life]

we lock up people for long periods of time for a plant that grows wild and doesn't kill anyone

yes, i would say it is unjust

Cant argue with that.

[Krgrecw]

Cant argue with that.



You can't possibly believe people are in jail for long periods of time for weed possession. That's ludicrous.

[Tomahawking4life]

You can't possibly believe people are in jail for long periods of time for weed possession. That's ludicrous.

Sure I can. I work in Law Enforcement. Our jail is clogged with people in here for Marijuana related charges.

And define "long periods of time." Maybe not for a simple poss of marijuana charge. But trafficking marijuana, manufacturing marijuana, and possession with intent to distribute are all felony charges that carry a decent amount of time for them.

[goldfly]

hell, it's unjust to fine citizens for a plant and to take away their freedom for a night imo for it

but we have people in this country serving life sentences for pot.

[jpx7]

I'll just leave this here (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-very-bad-reason-jeff-sessions-is-very-unhappy/2016/12/23/213a3cb8-c86d-11e6-bf4b-2c064d32a4bf_story.html):


For Christos and Markela Sourovelis, for whom the worst thing was losing their home, “Room 101” was Courtroom 478 in City Hall. This “courtroom’s” name is Orwellian: There was neither judge nor jury in it. There the city government enriched itself — more than $64 million in a recent 11-year span — by disregarding due process requirements in order to seize and sell the property of people who have not been accused, never mind convicted, of a crime.

[...] At a 2015 Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on forfeiture abuses, [Senator Jeff Sessions said:] In seizing property suspected of involvement in a crime, government “should not have a burden of proof higher than in a normal civil case.”

IJ’s Robert Everett Johnson notes that this senator missed a few salient points: In civil forfeiture there usually is no proper “judicial process.” There is no way of knowing how many forfeitures involve criminals because the government takes property without even charging anyone with a crime. The government’s vast prosecutorial resources are one reason it properly bears the burden of proving criminal culpability “beyond a reasonable doubt.” A sued businessperson does not have assets taken until he or she has lost in a trial, whereas civil forfeiture takes property without a trial and the property owner must wage a protracted, complex and expensive fight to get it returned. The Senate Judiciary Committee might want to discuss all this when considering the nominee to be the next attorney general, Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions.

[cajunrevenge]

It doesn't require a long prison sentence to screw people's lives. The arrest, getting a criminal record, and general social stigma. Legalization has been tried in Portugal. Nothing but good came from it. I am so pro-cop when it comes to catching murders, rapists, thieves, etc. I don't know if anyone has heard of the blue eyes brown eyes experiment but I think that is largely what has happened to the black community. My thoughts on black culture would have most people calling me racist. It's toxic in my opinion and it doesn't just affect black people.