Fox News and their Ilk are the worst

[zitothebrave]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Jewish-family-flees-Lancaster-County.html?mobi=true

[Oklahomahawk]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Jewish-family-flees-Lancaster-County.html?mobi=true

Ironically I"ve said for years that every conservative needs to be tied to a chair and forced to watch A Christmas Carol and every liberal needs to be tied to a chair and forced to watch The Ant and the Grasshopper. Fat chance of that happening though, huh?

[mossy]

Fox "news" spreading lies and bias? I'm beyond shock.

[weso1]

What a sharticle that is.

Also, everyone has seen A Christmas Carol. I don't know what that has to do with conservatives.

[Oklahomahawk]

What a sharticle that is.

Also, everyone has seen A Christmas Carol. I don't know what that has to do with conservatives.

Then maybe you need to watch it again, or maybe you really aren't that conservative.

[Krgrecw]

What a sharticle that is.

Also, everyone has seen A Christmas Carol. I don't know what that has to do with conservatives.


I guess they're trying to imply that conservatives don't care about poor people when stats show that conservatives donate and gift more than liberals do

[goldfly]

I guess they're trying to imply that conservatives don't care about poor people when stats show that conservatives donate and gift more than liberals do

MIT researchers did find, however, was that conservatives give more to religious organizations, such as their own churches, and liberals more to secular recipients. Conservatives may give more overall, MIT says, but that's because they tend to be richer, so they have more money to give and get a larger tax benefit from giving it.

[Garmel]

MIT researchers did find, however, was that conservatives give more to religious organizations, such as their own churches, and liberals more to secular recipients. Conservatives may give more overall, MIT says, but that's because they tend to be richer, so they have more money to give and get a larger tax benefit from giving it.

Conservatives are richer? Just last week you put up a map that showed how uneducated and poor conservative areas of the nation are.

[zitothebrave]

What a sharticle that is.

Makes me think you didn't read where Rightwing News Outlets accused this family of doing something they didn't do.

[weso1]

Makes me think you didn't read where Rightwing News Outlets accused this family of doing something they didn't do.

I read it, and already knew about it before reading your post. It contains a major disclaimer before the article actually begins.

[zitothebrave]

I read it, and already knew about it before reading your post. It contains a major disclaimer before the article actually begins.

The disclaimer ahs to do with th eterm fled. Not that the right wing media and their radical followers harassed these people. So yeah.

[Oklahomahawk]

I guess they're trying to imply that conservatives don't care about poor people when stats show that conservatives donate and gift more than liberals do

I realize there are lots of wealthy people who are very generous, Bill and Melinda Gates come to mind though there are tons of others. Just like the great majority of cops never shoot anyone, let alone anyone who is unarmed, but in most of both of those cases you never hear about it.

This doesn't have to be about only politics. With that said the last studies I've seen on the subject suggest that the majority of giving was done by those in the middle-middle class (back when we had one) down to the upper parts of the lower class. You know, those who could probably least afford it.

But if you have actual study data I would love to see it.

[weso1]

The disclaimer ahs to do with th eterm fled. Not that the right wing media and their radical followers harassed these people. So yeah.

“There’s no way we’re going to take a chance after the pizza incident,” they told the Lancaster reporter.

[weso1]

I realize there are lots of wealthy people who are very generous, Bill and Melinda Gates come to mind though there are tons of others. Just like the great majority of cops never shoot anyone, let alone anyone who is unarmed, but in most of both of those cases you never hear about it.

This doesn't have to be about only politics. With that said the last studies I've seen on the subject suggest that the majority of giving was done by those in the middle-middle class (back when we had one) down to the upper parts of the lower class. You know, those who could probably least afford it.

But if you have actual study data I would love to see it.

I think your grump should mainly be directed at corporatism. Conservatives are traditionally very giving, but just simply believe in the idea that government isn't the best vehicle to deliver the charity. Just because you support the government holding a gun to peoples' head and forcing them to give their money away to bureaucratic welfare systems doesn't mean you aren't a scrooge. Sure it makes you feel better about yourself, but it's not necessarily doing as much good or any good at all.

[Oklahomahawk]

I think your grump should mainly be directed at corporatism. Conservatives are traditionally very giving, but just simply believe in the idea that government isn't the best vehicle to deliver the charity. Just because you support the government holding a gun to peoples' head and forcing them to give their money away to bureaucratic welfare systems doesn't mean you aren't a scrooge. Sure it makes you feel better about yourself, but it's not necessarily doing as much good or any good at all.

Well let's see:
1.) Agree on corporatism being a more usual suspect in the hoarding of resources and the negative effects it has on the poor and struggling and we all know there are more than a couple of Dems guilty of being in bed with that ilk (see the most recent Dem presidential nominee)
2.) I keep hearing how generous conservatives are (and I even admitted many more wealthy folks are generous than we often hear about) but I'm waiting to see some good, reliable statistics on just how generous conservatives are, as opposed to other groups. Maybe you can supply some.
3.) I don't believe I said anything about anyone needing to be generous by having a gun put to their head. Don't know if you're saying I was saying that or the usual conservative response of "I shouldn't have to give because I pay taxes". Maybe you can clear that one up.
4.) Also don't know if you are saying I think it makes me feel better about MYSELF or if it was just a general sort of "you".

I did notice a number of condescending "we're the good guys because we're conservatives and we already do the right thing pretty much all the time so save your breath and don't preach at us" stuff. Maybe this was not intended, maybe it was.

I will say this though, I have NOT forgotten the arrogant conservatives bull****e that overflowed from the conservatives back during the W/Cheney years and all the nonsense that went with it. It wasn't right the and it isn't right now. I don't care how many mainstream religious folks your party has on the payroll who are more than willing to give you guys a pass on literally anything but hey I"m not in their union.


So, just to clear things up:

Laying on one's arse and wanting to be supported by the government---bad
Using government programs like a bridge to get you from where you are to where you need to be-----fine
Ambition/work ethic-----very good and necessary thing, human beings and maybe Americans more than anyone else, need that incentive to strive and excel
Greed/out of control, "take as much as I can, even when it gets into cartoon figures amounts and no matter how many American workers I hurt in the process"----BAD

And yeah, I still say every conservative should have to watch, or re-watch A Christmas Carol and every liberal should have to watch The Ant and the Grasshopper.


EDIT: By the way, one last thing, taxation does not equal giving and no amount of telling yourself you are the greatest and pretty much infallible doesn't make it so.

[AerchAngel]

Well let's see:
1.) Agree on corporatism being a more usual suspect in the hoarding of resources and the negative effects it has on the poor and struggling and we all know there are more than a couple of Dems guilty of being in bed with that ilk (see the most recent Dem presidential nominee)
2.) I keep hearing how generous conservatives are (and I even admitted many more wealthy folks are generous than we often hear about) but I'm waiting to see some good, reliable statistics on just how generous conservatives are, as opposed to other groups. Maybe you can supply some.
3.) I don't believe I said anything about anyone needing to be generous by having a gun put to their head. Don't know if you're saying I was saying that or the usual conservative response of "I shouldn't have to give because I pay taxes". Maybe you can clear that one up.
4.) Also don't know if you are saying I think it makes me feel better about MYSELF or if it was just a general sort of "you".

I did notice a number of condescending "we're the good guys because we're conservatives and we already do the right thing pretty much all the time so save your breath and don't preach at us" stuff. Maybe this was not intended, maybe it was.

I will say this though, I have NOT forgotten the arrogant conservatives bull****e that overflowed from the conservatives back during the W/Cheney years and all the nonsense that went with it. It wasn't right the and it isn't right now. I don't care how many mainstream religious folks your party has on the payroll who are more than willing to give you guys a pass on literally anything but hey I"m not in their union.


So, just to clear things up:

Laying on one's arse and wanting to be supported by the government---bad
Using government programs like a bridge to get you from where you are to where you need to be-----fine
Ambition/work ethic-----very good and necessary thing, human beings and maybe Americans more than anyone else, need that incentive to strive and excel
Greed/out of control, "take as much as I can, even when it gets into cartoon figures amounts and no matter how many American workers I hurt in the process"----BAD

And yeah, I still say every conservative should have to watch, or re-watch A Christmas Carol and every liberal should have to watch The Ant and the Grasshopper.


EDIT: By the way, one last thing, taxation does not equal giving and no amount of telling yourself you are the greatest and pretty much infallible doesn't make it so.

Google it. People cry about Christian churches about everything but they donate and do things for charity far more than Dummicrats do. Dummicrats are Scrooges to be honest, won't give you a dime and not very good Samaritans either. They will say, government will take care of you while you bleeding out and walk on to their next LGBT meeting.

[Oklahomahawk]

Google it. People cry about Christian churches about everything but they donate and do things for charity far more than Dummicrats do. Dummicrats are Scrooges to be honest, won't give you a dime and not very good Samaritans either. They will say, government will take care of you while you bleeding out and walk on to their next LGBT meeting.

So dummicrats are not/cannot be Christians and repubs automatically are or something along those lines? Do the two have to be mutually exclusive?

[BedellBrave]

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15740738_10154723662245874_1195073949485614023_n.j pg?oh=b44447e5838bf7b95c91d8f53323c8cd&oe=58E8762E

[Oklahomahawk]

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15740738_10154723662245874_1195073949485614023_n.j pg?oh=b44447e5838bf7b95c91d8f53323c8cd&oe=58E8762E

so, which cities, states, etc., fine churches for trying to help the poor/homeless? This would seem to me to be a good cause for everyone to get behind (stopping this practice).

[BedellBrave]

I realize there are lots of wealthy people who are very generous, Bill and Melinda Gates come to mind though there are tons of others. Just like the great majority of cops never shoot anyone, let alone anyone who is unarmed, but in most of both of those cases you never hear about it.

This doesn't have to be about only politics. With that said the last studies I've seen on the subject suggest that the majority of giving was done by those in the middle-middle class (back when we had one) down to the upper parts of the lower class. You know, those who could probably least afford it.

But if you have actual study data I would love to see it.


Many of which are conservatives, right? At least the sort I know of. It's the world I swim in - middle class to upper lower class, with socially conservative views typically, and who give - of their money and time.

[Oklahomahawk]

Many of which are conservatives, right? At least the sort I know of. It's the world I swim in - middle class to upper lower class, with socially conservative views typically, and who give - of their money and time.

Not sure of your point/question?

[BedellBrave]

And on Boxing Day, I suggest we just go out and do something generous, rather than bitch about stuff.

[BedellBrave]

Not sure of your point/question?

Aren't many of the ones you say are the most generous conservatives - at least social conservatives?

[Oklahomahawk]

Aren't many of the ones you say are the most generous conservatives - at least social conservatives?

Did I ever say otherwise? I always try to point out that there are good and bad people in/from all groups. What I'm hearing on this board lately is the same BS that I saw back in the early parts of W's first term. What I seem to be reading now is (and correct me if I'm wrong) don't piss on anything/anyone unless you're sure you're pointing towards a Dem. Can this possibly be the case?

Oh and while I know you're definitely no Trump supporter, in what universe is he or his inner circle a social conservative?

[AerchAngel]

so, which cities, states, etc., fine churches for trying to help the poor/homeless? This would seem to me to be a good cause for everyone to get behind (stopping this practice).

Could you tell the city Democrat led counsels that. Anything the church do for good, they want to punish them.

[BedellBrave]

Did I ever say otherwise? I always try to point out that there are good and bad people in/from all groups. What I'm hearing on this board lately is the same BS that I saw back in the early parts of W's first term. What I seem to be reading now is (and correct me if I'm wrong) don't piss on anything/anyone unless you're sure you're pointing towards a Dem. Can this possibly be the case?

Oh and while I know you're definitely no Trump supporter, in what universe is he or his inner circle a social conservative?

You implied otherwise - or that's how what you've written has been read by me - and I think a few others.

Typically, we all hear what we want to hear. Then we pontificate. Straw men and all.

[AerchAngel]

Did I ever say otherwise? I always try to point out that there are good and bad people in/from all groups. What I'm hearing on this board lately is the same BS that I saw back in the early parts of W's first term. What I seem to be reading now is (and correct me if I'm wrong) don't piss on anything/anyone unless you're sure you're pointing towards a Dem. Can this possibly be the case?

Oh and while I know you're definitely no Trump supporter, in what universe is he or his inner circle a social conservative?

When the Dems quit punishing people for voicing their opinion is when I get off their necks.

I get fined 140k because I don't want to put a penis on a cake for a gay couple, seriously? Or better yet sued for serving bacon greased meal to a Muslim family.

When will this nonsense quit? I gave up my Democrat carrying card as soon as their Gestapo ways started.

[Oklahomahawk]

Typically, we all hear what we want to hear. Then we pontificate. Straw men and all.

Yes, apparently we do.

[Oklahomahawk]

Could you tell the city Democrat led counsels that. Anything the church do for good, they want to punish them.

Again, an example would be nice, or can you just tell those cities by the horns on their administrations' heads?

[Oklahomahawk]

When the Dems quit punishing people for voicing their opinion is when I get off their necks.

I get fined 140k because I don't want to put a penis on a cake for a gay couple, seriously? Or better yet sued for serving bacon greased meal to a Muslim family.

When will this nonsense quit? I gave up my Democrat carrying card as soon as their Gestapo ways started.

I"d still like to have some evidence of any time I've defended the Dems. All I recall doing is to say the Repubs suck as well, but maybe that's the same thing these days. I know it was about a decade ago. I guess history really does repeat itself, I of all people should have recognized this sooner. Pretty ironic huh?

[BedellBrave]

Then maybe you need to watch it again, or maybe you really aren't that conservative.


See here OHawk - here you imply that those who are really conservative are Scrooges. Problem is, that's a mighty broad brush you are painting with. What exactly do you mean by "conservative" if you think this?

[BedellBrave]

Here's a personal anecdote OHawk. In one town I ministered in, the local churches (most fairly small) pooled resources and operated from those resources a clothing closet, a food pantry, a soup kitchen, and an assistance center - all on shoestring budgets. We saw the need of a temporary homeless shelter and had room in the building that housed the soup kitchen, to open up a overnight accommodations for probably 15 people/night. You can't imagine the hindrances the city/town government put up (and you might be surprised at the party affiliation of the mayor and many of the city/town council-folk). You see the soup kitchen was about 4-5 blocks away from the center of town. It was a nightmare, but we persevered despite the guagmire the city made us slog thru.

[Oklahomahawk]

See here OHawk - here you imply that those who are really conservative are Scrooges. Problem is, that's a mighty broad brush you are painting with. What exactly do you mean by "conservative" if you think this?

That was a reply to weso's "hey we don't need to watch A Christmas Carol, we already know what it's about".

[Oklahomahawk]

Here's a personal anecdote OHawk. In one town I ministered in, the local churches (most fairly small) pooled resources and operated from those resources a clothing closet, a food pantry, a soup kitchen, and an assistance center - all on shoestring budgets. We saw the need of a temporary homeless shelter and had room in the building that housed the soup kitchen, to open up a overnight accommodations for probably 15 people/night. You can't imagine the hindrances the city/town government put up (and you might be surprised at the party affiliation of the mayor and many of the city/town council-folk). You see the soup kitchen was about 4-5 blocks away from the center of town. It was a nightmare, but we persevered despite the guagmire the city made us slog thru.

Sounds like that city council needs to have a spot light shined on their ahole-ness. Was the 4-5 blocks too close to their highnesses (absolutely no political affiliation implied)??

[BedellBrave]

There is a role for local, state, and federal governments to play (probably larger than many small-government conservatives and definitely libertarians imagine), and a role for charities (including churches) and individuals to play (larger and more important role than many liberals imagine).

[BedellBrave]

Sounds like that city council needs to have a spot light shined on their ahole-ness. Was the 4-5 blocks too close to their highnesses (absolutely no political affiliation implied)??


Small town and you know how that works. After the spotlight is gone, the real powers that be are still there and are pissed. So, just slog it out and keep doing what's for the good.

Yes, too close.

Neat thing about that group of churches and maybe it was because it was a small town/city, is that the liberal mainline churches, local black churches, and evangelical churches all worked together. It was also a means of checking people who just work the system. They couldn't play one church off of another one. There was a built-in accountability that way.

[Oklahomahawk]

There is a role for local, state, and federal governments to play (probably larger than many small-government conservatives and definitely libertarians imagine), and a role for charities (including churches) and individuals to play (larger and more important role than many liberals imagine).

Totally agree, the government isn't the total answer by any means, though the fact that certain people think they pay too much in taxes doesn't outweigh Biblical edicts IMO. I've never stated that the government is the answer or even the biggest part of it. They're better than nothing, though sometimes not by much. I have a big problem with the arrogance and denial of the necessity of helping the poor by the wealthy, no matter their political affiliation. Should the haves just relegate themselves to taking care of those who don't want to work? Of course not and I've never said that, but those who hide money in the Cayman Islands because they feel "picked on" despite their socioeconomic status are putting themselves into danger of judgment but I suppose that's their right to do. And any government that treats some/part/all of its people like they aren't important or don't matter because of their perceived level of "worth" doesn't deserve to exist IMO. Of course that will no doubt piss some people around here off too. Such is life though.

[AerchAngel]

Here's a personal anecdote OHawk. In one town I ministered in, the local churches (most fairly small) pooled resources and operated from those resources a clothing closet, a food pantry, a soup kitchen, and an assistance center - all on shoestring budgets. We saw the need of a temporary homeless shelter and had room in the building that housed the soup kitchen, to open up a overnight accommodations for probably 15 people/night. You can't imagine the hindrances the city/town government put up (and you might be surprised at the party affiliation of the mayor and many of the city/town council-folk). You see the soup kitchen was about 4-5 blocks away from the center of town. It was a nightmare, but we persevered despite the guagmire the city made us slog thru.

We have 4 in the city, not a single one from any Democrat led business. All are Conservative outreach programs or churches. One is named after one of African American pioneers of helping those in need.

We have far more than 15 a night, we have families in there because my job always donate things to the family. I myself give them clothes and shoes and plan on doing a lot more in the near future with coats we no longer use.

I know some at work donate their time by cooking for them and babysitting while they look for work and if I am not mistaken my boss hired a few to get them off the streets and out of harms way even with a record.