Allard and Newcomb #4 and #9 on Pipeline's Top 10 LHP

[Chico]

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017?list=lhp

[msstate7]

Groome better than allard?

[Enscheff]

Great to see Allard moving up. A little less great to see Newcomb moving down.

[thewupk]

Looks like Allard is going to jump in the lists. I wonder how far Newcomb has fallen overall.

[thewupk]

Looking at the RHP list. Doens't look like Giolito is going to drop that much. He's #3 on that list. White Sox have 3 of the top 10 RHP too.

[thethe]

Not sure what Newcomb has done to merit any drop.

Guy has flat out dominated the minor leagues.

[TheBravos]

How is Groome so high? He hasn't proved anything yet.

[zbhargrove]

Not sure what Newcomb has done to merit any drop.

Guy has flat out dominated the minor leagues.

Dominated is a pretty strong word. His control is a mess and his walk rate is through the roof.

[thethe]

Dominated is a pretty strong word. His control is a mess and his walk rate is through the roof.

That is kind of the same thing.

Either way, walk rates don't necessarily mean that he lacks control. Is he missing by a lot or is he just missing and the umpiring/framing stinks int he minor leagues? I really don't know but would be interested in knowing if there is some sort of metric for distance fromt he strike zone on balls.

Minor league hitters have proven they can't hit newcomb and they certainly can't hit him for power. The only thing holding Newcomb back is Newcomb.

The guy has let up basically a .200 average the last 2 seasons. This is still with about .300 BABIP. If that isn't the definition of dominating hitters than I'm not sure what is.

[TheBravos]

Yeah, not sure why people are so low on Newcomb now...prototypical late bloomer. All he has to do is get the walks down, and that will come with time (probably this year).

[UNCBlue012]

I'd almost bet money that one more season even remotely close to that last and Max Fried is really high on the list.

[Hudson2]

Fried will definitely be on this list

[Horsehide Harry]

These lists are a little goofy.

Newcomb 3rd last year, Allard 9th.

Year before Fried was 8th (after TJ) and Newcomb 9th.

Year before Fried was 2nd right in front of Jesse Biddle (Danny Hultzen was first, now out of baseball)

Year before that Fried was 4th behind Hultzen, Skaggs and Martin Perez.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Pipeline is weird. I think I like BA more.

[Chico]

Ozzie should be #2 for 2B. Swanson should be #2 for SS. Riley should make the top 10. Acuna should make it for OF as well.

[smootness]

Yeah, that's pretty dumb. They either haven't updated their scouting grades or are just arbitrarily placing guys on that list. Newcomb with a 70 fastball, 60 curve, 50 change, and 45 control...Hader with a 65 fastball, 60 slider, 45 change, and 45 control.

[thewupk]

Pipeline is weird. I think I like BA more.

Each one is a little different. BA is my trusted one as well though.

[thewupk]

Ozzie should be #2 for 2B. Swanson should be #2 for SS. Riley should make the top 10. Acuna should make it for OF as well.

That would be a big jump for Acuna but I can certainly see it.

[thewupk]

I do wonder where there overall top 100 ends up. BA actually listed Benintendi over Moncanda in their Red Sox top 10. So they presumably still have the #1 prospect in baseball (according to BA) and likely had #1 and #2 before the trade. Curious to see how that translates to MLB pipeline. We will find out next Saturday.

[cajunrevenge]

How is Groome so high? He hasn't proved anything yet.

It's not that much of a stretch. Groome was considered a candidate to go number 1 overall. Allard has a better 1-2 combo with fastball and curve but Groome has much more advanced third and fourth pitches. He could go through the minors quickly.

[Enscheff]

It's not that much of a stretch. Groome was considered a candidate to go number 1 overall. Allard has a better 1-2 combo with fastball and curve but Groome has much more advanced third and fourth pitches. He could go through the minors quickly.

Allard has a better FB/Curve combo?

Groome: "Groome works with a 90-95 mph fastball that peaks at 97 with armside run, and he could throw harder as he gets stronger. Nevertheless, his best pitch is a curveball with power and depth that many evaluators believed was the best breaking ball in the 2016 Draft."

Allard: "His fastball will sit in the low-90s, with the ability to reach back for a little more when needed. But what really makes it stand out is the cutter-like movement to it and his ability to command it well. Allard has one of the better breaking balls in the Minors, a plus curve"

How exactly does that translate to "Allard has a better 1-2 combo with fastball and curve"?

Groome also hasn't already had multiple back surgeries, so his stock is justifiably higher right now.

[cajunrevenge]

Whatever, we agree it's not a stretch to rank Groome ahead of Allard.

[Enscheff]

Whatever, we agree it's not a stretch to rank Groome ahead of Allard.

If by, "not a stretch", you mean, "perfectly reasonable", we are in complete agreement!

Sorry to bring facts into the discussion though.

[smootness]

If by, "not a stretch", you mean, "perfectly reasonable", we are in complete agreement!

Sorry to bring facts into the discussion though.

You're condescending when you agree, too? Goodness.

[smootness]

Allard has a better FB/Curve combo?

Groome: "Groome works with a 90-95 mph fastball that peaks at 97 with armside run, and he could throw harder as he gets stronger. Nevertheless, his best pitch is a curveball with power and depth that many evaluators believed was the best breaking ball in the 2016 Draft."

Allard: "His fastball will sit in the low-90s, with the ability to reach back for a little more when needed. But what really makes it stand out is the cutter-like movement to it and his ability to command it well. Allard has one of the better breaking balls in the Minors, a plus curve"

How exactly does that translate to "Allard has a better 1-2 combo with fastball and curve"?

Groome also hasn't already had multiple back surgeries, so his stock is justifiably higher right now.

These quotes don't really show that Groome's combo is better. Allard may not throw quite as hard, but they're in the same general range, and Allard's seems like it may have more movement. And I'm pretty sure Allard's curve was considered the best in the 2015 draft.

[thethe]

Can Groome pitch even a little bit before he makes this list?

If thats the case then they better vote Maitan as one of the top 10 hitters in the minor leagues.

[smootness]

I don't really have a problem with a scouting service coming up with an opinion that differs from most, or certainly that differs from mine. I just take issue with a service ranking differently than they themselves have evaluated. It doesn't make sense.

[cajunrevenge]

If by, "not a stretch", you mean, "perfectly reasonable", we are in complete agreement!

Sorry to bring facts into the discussion though.

Since when do you consider scouting reports facts?

[Enscheff]

Since when do you consider scouting reports facts?

Gov? Is that you?