Christian Bethancourt Called Up [Archive]

Gary82

09-09-2013, 06:58 AM

I'm pleased with his improvement offensively. Maybe there is hope for the guy after all!

Either way, talk about catcher overload! Brian McCann, Gerald Laird, Evan Gattis, Christian Bethancourt all on the same team. I'm sure there's an emergency-emergency-emergency-emergency catcher on the roster, too.

thethe

09-09-2013, 07:01 AM

Why aren't we hearing the same of LaStella? I can't stand to watch Dan Uggla for one more day.

Gary82

09-09-2013, 07:07 AM

I agree. I want to see LaStella up and given a chance at second.

BlackwaterPark

09-09-2013, 07:18 AM

So why have 4 catchers? Will Laird get released? I second the opinion on LaStella

jpack1

09-09-2013, 07:20 AM

Why is LA Stella not getting a chance? Strange stuff. Gosselin, Cunningham? But no Lastella? Strange.

zitothebrave

09-09-2013, 07:55 AM

Why aren't we hearing the same of LaStella? I can't stand to watch Dan Uggla for one more day.

Bethancourt was on the 40 man Tommy isn't. If the Braves want to add Tommy they have to cut someone off the 40 man or put Pastor or Reed on the 60 day. Not sure how bad either of their injuries actually are and if the Braves would consider them lost causes for the season.

Personally I'd cut Loe and bring up Tommy but I doubt that Wren does that. As far as guys to remove from the 40 man, only guys who aren't in the bigs still on the 40 man are Northcraft, Gearrin, Jaime, Mejia, Gosselin, and Cunningham. Gosselin and Cunningham seem to have long term bench potential so I doubt they go anywhere. Northcraft shouldn't go anywhere, Gearrin maybe should be cut but I still think he can be a good ROOGY, Jaime I really know nothing about and Mejia should probably be cut.

there's moves to make to bring Tommy into the fold but it's not as simple as bringing Bethancourt.

Tapate50

09-09-2013, 08:01 AM

Pastornicky has a busted up knee. Won't see any pt for us rest of the season. No reason to NOT move him to 60 day. Reed is taking a rehab break because it isn't getting better.

Loe needs to be gone. No reason we won't see La Stella.

Dunit24

09-09-2013, 08:04 AM

thethe

09-09-2013, 08:05 AM

Im ready to see this kid catch. He could be our future. What a bright future we have in Bethancourt and Gattis behind the plate.

This is why I have a hard time seeing us give Mac a ton of money like he will want. Do we give it to him or do we go with Bet/Gattis/Laird next year and spend the money on extending others such as Heyward, Freeman, or Kimbrel...

Going to be fun either way.

Ideally it would be great to have Mac back but it does seem to be an inefficient use of limited resources. Just wish Liberty would spend some of this supposed "profit" that the club is making.

tvsportscaster

09-09-2013, 08:15 AM

So why have 4 catchers? Will Laird get released? I second the opinion on LaStella

No I think this means, you will see a lot of Evan Gattis in LF from here on out and not a lot behind the plate and probably brought up Bethancourt for that reason so they don't have to use Gattis behind the plate much the rest of the way.

50PoundHead

09-09-2013, 08:39 AM

Bethancourt was on the 40 man Tommy isn't. If the Braves want to add Tommy they have to cut someone off the 40 man or put Pastor or Reed on the 60 day. Not sure how bad either of their injuries actually are and if the Braves would consider them lost causes for the season.

Personally I'd cut Loe and bring up Tommy but I doubt that Wren does that. As far as guys to remove from the 40 man, only guys who aren't in the bigs still on the 40 man are Northcraft, Gearrin, Jaime, Mejia, Gosselin, and Cunningham. Gosselin and Cunningham seem to have long term bench potential so I doubt they go anywhere. Northcraft shouldn't go anywhere, Gearrin maybe should be cut but I still think he can be a good ROOGY, Jaime I really know nothing about and Mejia should probably be cut.

there's moves to make to bring Tommy into the fold but it's not as simple as bringing Bethancourt.

LaStella doesn't have to go on the 40-man until after next season and whether or not that is sound logic given the situation with Uggla, there is reasoning behind it. The 60-day DL guys who aren't free agents have to be put back on the 40-man roster at the end of the season and the Braves will have to keep some slots open for guys who need to go on the 40-man roster or be exposed to the Rule 5 draft. Add to that slots the team might need for free agent signings and it may preclude adding LaStella right now. That said, I would have no trouble putting just about anyone out there in the place of Uggla.

As for the original thrust of the post, nice to see Bethancourt up for some mop-up action.

Braves1976

09-09-2013, 08:40 AM

No I think this means, you will see a lot of Evan Gattis in LF from here on out and not a lot behind the plate and probably brought up Bethancourt for that reason so they don't have to use Gattis behind the plate much the rest of the way.

I am hoping this means Gattis will be our starting leftfielder in the playoffs (hopefully with Heyward and Justin Upton in center and right). This should be the plan anyway, but Fredi stopped it once BJ Upton returned. I had my doubts that he'd go back to it. Maybe now he realizes he needs to go back to it. Of course it also depends on Heyward returning, etc.

Also, I agree with giving La Stella a shot and removing Loe. Uggla isn't getting it done. If not La Stella shoot I'll take EJ at this point, at least EJ can help on defense.

stpeteirish

09-09-2013, 08:40 AM

So why have 4 catchers? Will Laird get released? I second the opinion on LaStella

Laird is under contract next year, so he won't be cut. Beth's call up is pretty surprising; I wonder what they are trying to accomplish with this, maybe an early look at next year and how to replace Mac.

Has nothing to do with LaStella, there's room for both. He (LaStella) is going to the AFL, but that shouldn't preclude a call up. Guess they are still hanging on the the "Uggla will get hot" fantasy.

Julio3000

09-09-2013, 08:40 AM

weso1

09-09-2013, 08:48 AM

It frees Gattis up to play OF and allows the Braves to get a look at CB against top competition on both sides of the ball. I guess we could be showcasing Gattis or getting ready to wave goodbye to Mac . . . or neither of the above.

Yep, this is a sign that Mac is gone after this season. I'm thinking Braves go with Gattis/Bet/Laird next season.

PawPawMaxwell

09-09-2013, 09:07 AM

Im thinking along the lines of Gattis and a LH catcher platoon with a 3rd catcher like Bethancourt if he is ready. Gattis would be 4th OFer when needed. I look at Gattis age and where he will be after the early arb years.

PawPawMaxwell

09-09-2013, 09:09 AM

Yep, this is a sign that Mac is gone after this season. I'm thinking Braves go with Gattis/Bet/Laird next season.
Im not sure and too lazy to look but isnt Bethancourt a RH hitter? If so think it is more likely Laird is traded in off season.

gilesfan

09-09-2013, 09:12 AM

Pumped to see Bethancourt. I guess all the people that told me that he would never play in the majors can eat some crow.

Braves1976

09-09-2013, 09:16 AM

Im not sure and too lazy to look but isnt Bethancourt a RH hitter? If so think it is more likely Laird is traded in off season.

Bethancourt is right handed, I'm also hoping Laird is traded and replaced if we do go with three catchers again (minus Mac sadly). My issue with Laird isn't his bat so much as him being one of the worst at framing pitches in MLB, etc. He is said to be very good on the bench and in the clubhouse though (and that's likely a big part of why we signed him).

Tapate50

09-09-2013, 09:47 AM

Maybe Rico can comment, but I saw a lot of box scores where La Stella was removed in the back third of the game....is his defense a concern?

Braves1976

09-09-2013, 10:43 AM

Maybe Rico can comment, but I saw a lot of box scores where La Stella was removed in the back third of the game....is his defense a concern?

See my review of game one of Mississippi's playoff series in the minor league game thread. La Stella had a ball go through his legs that led to Mobile's rally to tie that game. It was also ruled a hit too. There was also another play that game that the Mississippi announcer seemed to imply a lack of range on La Stella's part. Note, I was listening on the Mississippi radio feed so my feedback here is all based on their call of it.

To sum it up, it does seem La Stella's defense isn't very good. But I still have a hard time believing it's worse than Uggla's defense.

Deester11

09-09-2013, 11:22 AM

I have long been a proponent of Bethancourt. It was great to see him improve and I'm excited to see him. I have to admit that this logjam is a headscratcher though. As someone mentioned, it probably won't be prudent to give a lot to Mac, but I'll sure miss him. Defensively, if you haven't seen much of Beth, you'll be in for a treat. He's got it all and even got better with passed balls from when he first started.

buck7580

09-09-2013, 11:33 AM

Maybe Rico can comment, but I saw a lot of box scores where La Stella was removed in the back third of the game....is his defense a concern?

Evidently La Stella came out of a game recently due to a migrane.

bravebonebook

09-09-2013, 11:46 AM

Ideally it would be great to have Mac back but it does seem to be an inefficient use of limited resources. Just wish Liberty would spend some of this supposed "profit" that the club is making.

They are. New luxury cars, mansions, yachts, real estate, wining and dining. Maybe even a nickel or two to their shareholders...

...oh, you mean spend a bit more on the Braves baseball team!! I bet that thought never crossed their minds...

nsacpi

09-09-2013, 11:54 AM

I guess I'm one of the few who think both Bethancourt and La Stella would benefit from starting next year in AAA. La Stella obviously because he needs to improve the defense. And Bethancourt because I don't think his bat is quite ready for the majors. There is no need to rush these guys. Give them a few months in AAA.

Russ2dollas

09-09-2013, 12:11 PM

C-B, Gattis, Laird, and McCann.....at least 1 of those guys is gone next year.

We know the most likely scenario is McCann goes and C-B and Gattis play. Maybe Laird stays and bring up C-B later in the year.

I'd prefer a scenario where we keep Mac and we can trade one of C-B or Gattis. If C-B doesn't look lost at the plate, he could be a sell high option. Gattis could be really attractive to an AL team. DH that you can stick behind the plate and LF if needed for a cheap cost.

We will probably know early. McCann prob signs ASAP if he's staying a Brave. Then Wrenn has time to deal from a position of strength. In the more likely scenario we'll know our best offer isn't good enough and Wrenn can focus on trying to replace the drop from Mac to Gattis/CB by doing something at 2B or 3B.

cajunrevenge

09-09-2013, 01:27 PM

I hate to see this because its a big sign that McCann is leaving. If he isnt signed by the time the teams exclusive negotiating window ends he is as good as gone. My bet would be on Texas. Even if that happened I didnt think Bethancourt would be on the team until atleast halfway thru 2014. I really like having an elite defensive catcher but I just dont have faith in prospects that are so aggressive at the plate. I would put Bethancourt's upside at the plate next year right around what Simmons did this year. We just cant afford another black hole in the lineup.

PawPawMaxwell

09-09-2013, 01:29 PM

They are. New luxury cars, mansions, yachts, real estate, wining and dining. Maybe even a nickel or two to their shareholders...

...oh, you mean spend a bit more on the Braves baseball team!! I bet that thought never crossed their minds...
It has been said many times that Liberty takes nothing from the Braves earnings. If you are familiar with balance sheets, Braves earnings would not even equal a couple pennies to the shareholders.

bravebonebook

09-09-2013, 01:54 PM

It has been said many times that Liberty takes nothing from the Braves earnings. If you are familiar with balance sheets, Braves earnings would not even equal a couple pennies to the shareholders.

OK, then let's see more spending for the team with these increased profits. Why can't the team be able to re-sign a fan-favorite, possible lifetime catcher to a reasonable and fair contract for both sides as well as make long term investments in Kimbrel, Heyward, Freeman, Simmons, Minor and our other young pitchers, et. al. The payroll doesn't have to be in the Dodger or Yankee stratosphere but can be higher than it is now, right?

All I keep hearing is that the Braves are a mid-level franchise now but keep getting these profits. I can understand a player leaving for more money if the Braves deem him not worth the value BUT, all things equal, they should never lose a player they want and need just because of the money.

PawPawMaxwell

09-09-2013, 02:06 PM

OK, then let's see more spending for the team with these increased profits. Why can't the team be able to re-sign a fan-favorite, possible lifetime catcher to a reasonable and fair contract for both sides as well as make long term investments in Kimbrel, Heyward, Freeman, Simmons, Minor and our other young pitchers, et. al. The payroll doesn't have to be in the Dodger or Yankee stratosphere but can be higher than it is now, right?

All I keep hearing is that the Braves are a mid-level franchise now but keep getting these profits. I can understand a player leaving for more money if the Braves deem him not worth the value BUT, all things equal, they should never lose a player they want and need just because of the money.

What money and what profits are you talking about. You do know that until next year, we have one of the worse TV contracts in existance.. JS, Wren have both publically stated that Liberty takes not one dime from the Braves and have only limited payroll to income. So where would you think these "profits" have gone.

Dalyn

09-09-2013, 02:20 PM

Good.

But I am going to miss McCann. Hope he continues to have a great career.

thethe

09-09-2013, 02:27 PM

Good.

But I am going to miss McCann. Hope he continues to have a great career.

+1

Gary82

09-09-2013, 02:38 PM

Good.

But I am going to miss McCann. Hope he continues to have a HOF career.

FTFY

Dalyn

09-09-2013, 02:45 PM

Thanks.

If we are letting him go, I hope Oakland grabs him. They are #2 on my list of favorite teams. He would be a great fit there.

The Chosen One

09-09-2013, 02:46 PM

This doesn't spell the end of Mac, it just means we can showcase Bethancourt and hope we can package him with Uggla somewhere to get money off the books.

nsacpi

09-09-2013, 02:48 PM

I'd be surprised if Bethancourt plays much. Fredi is having enough trouble getting the guys who will be on the post-season roster enough at bats to keep them sharp.

The Chosen One

09-09-2013, 02:57 PM

I'd be surprised if Bethancourt plays much. Fredi is having enough trouble getting the guys who will be on the post-season roster enough at bats to keep them sharp.
:fredi:

Dalyn

09-09-2013, 02:59 PM

This doesn't spell the end of Mac, it just means we can showcase Bethancourt and hope we can package him with Uggla somewhere to get money off the books.

This combined with Bethancourt's epic defense, Gattis approaching 20+ HRs in a failed season, and Laird being on the books next year pretty much does.

The Chosen One

09-09-2013, 03:08 PM

Dalyn

09-09-2013, 03:17 PM

I'm no Gattis hater, but he's one I'd like to sell high on...

I wanted to sell high on Francouer back in the day.

Not saying they're the same, but I am worried by the lack of pitches being taken by Gattis.

That is obviously a problem, but if Gattis turns out to be a complete boob, Bethancourt/Laird can hold down the position well enough.

nsacpi

09-09-2013, 03:19 PM

That is obviously a problem, but if Gattis turns out to be a complete boob, Bethancourt/Laird can hold down the position well enough.

Bethancourt/Laird is not something I want to try at catcher in 2014.

cajunrevenge

09-09-2013, 03:27 PM

Lets remember Gattis will be playing catcher, he wont have to hit much to be league average. If we get a .750 OPS from the catcher spot next year we should be happy. Just being over .800 OPS at the position makes you a borderline all star.

Dalyn

09-09-2013, 03:34 PM

Bethancourt/Laird is not something I want to try at catcher in 2014.

It is not ideal.

buck7580

09-09-2013, 04:19 PM

Hopefully he will turn out to be another Yadier type catcher. Time will tell.

COGPK

09-09-2013, 05:19 PM

I don't get a vote but my vote is to sign McCann and trade Gattis. I love Gattis but I just don't see him in the lineup every day. Texas would be a great spot for him. If we could get Texas to take Uggla and Gattis for whoever, it would free up some money. But, I'm dreaming.

thethe

09-09-2013, 05:20 PM

PawPawMaxwell

09-09-2013, 05:50 PM

I will never be a GM but over the years Ive learned a bit about the bottom line so to speak. If letting McCann move on enables the team or makes it easier to drop Uggla, Im all for it.
Personally I dont think Gattis will be THE CATCHER next year but would seem to me the perfect platoon catcher (with a capable partner) and the occassional 4th OFer or premier pinch hitter.

50PoundHead

09-10-2013, 09:35 AM

For as much as we all love Mac he isn't that Buster Posey/Joe Mauer type of bat really. I think the offensive production can be replaced or close to matched. We just need to find out if Gattis can lead a pitching staff. That is the biggest concern.

The problem is how do you replace McCann's bat in the current budget environment? Hopefully, we could move Uggla and get a smidgen of salary relief (although whomever picks him up would also be picking up a check from the Braves).

thethe

09-10-2013, 09:43 AM

The problem is how do you replace McCann's bat in the current budget environment? Hopefully, we could move Uggla and get a smidgen of salary relief (although whomever picks him up would also be picking up a check from the Braves).

Well you wouldn't replace Mac's bat in full but I believe over the course of a season Gattis could give you 90% of Mac's production with the potential to even eclipse it. Braves just have to continue to bank on continual improvement from Heyward/Upton/Freeman and prey that BJ remembers how to hit a baseball. I also believe that Simmons is going to be a solid major league hitter.

There is a lot of room for growth but the #1 thing for the Braves is to ensure that we keep the offensive core of Heyward/Freeman/Justin/Simmons together. If that means sacrificing a 30 year old catcher then so be it. Now if you are going to tell me that Liberty is going to spend some more money then please keep Mac.

zitothebrave

09-10-2013, 09:47 AM

Gattis cannot replace Mac's level of production. At least you cannot bank on that. If we're replacing Mac with Gattis expect a healthy dropoff. Our best bet to replacing Mac is Bethancourt.

thethe

09-10-2013, 09:50 AM

Gattis cannot replace Mac's level of production. At least you cannot bank on that. If we're replacing Mac with Gattis expect a healthy dropoff. Our best bet to replacing Mac is Bethancourt.

Offensively its very possible. I mentioned earlier that the command of the pitchers is whats going to be an issue. Mac is not POsey/Mauer. He is a low 800 OPS catcher. I think Gattis has hte potential to match that with more time. Defensively will be more of an issue.

zitothebrave

09-10-2013, 09:58 AM

Offensively its very possible. I mentioned earlier that the command of the pitchers is whats going to be an issue. Mac is not POsey/Mauer. He is a low 800 OPS catcher. I think Gattis has hte potential to match that with more time. Defensively will be more of an issue.

McCann is a low .800 OPS hitter on average. He's having an unlucky season (.269 BABIP) and he's hitting at his career norms. Odds of Gattis hitting at that level and catching aren't very high. What people don't realize about catching is it's taxing on the body, Gattis already hasn't had a 400 PA season. He has the power potential, that's for sure but an .800 OPS with most of the value being power is not the same as one with a much higher OBP.

nsacpi

09-10-2013, 10:12 AM

I don't think we would lose anything offensively next year replacing McCann with Gattis at catcher. But we would lose quite a bit in terms of handling the pitching staff, framing, defense, leadership, etc. Those things are harder to quantify. But one of the interesting things about our staff is that it has done well in spite of not being a group of power arms for the most part. Our pitching staff is about average when it comes to strikeout rates and among the top teams in holding down walks. They succeed by pitching to contact. Strong defense (mainly Simmons) accounts for some of that success. But having a veteran catcher who is good at calling a game is another part of it.

zitothebrave

09-10-2013, 10:17 AM

nsacpi

09-10-2013, 10:31 AM

We don't have power arms but Maholm and Medlen are the only ones who throw under 90. And Medlen, Julio and Minor are all in the top 30 in MLB in Swing Strike% Higher than guys like CC, Wainwright, Gio and Shields.

We have a great staff regardless. But I do hope we can improve our defense in the IF to make our pitching even better. Would be nice if we can move Johnson and get a really good 3B>

The contact % numbers have Medlen ranked 21th, Minor 25th, and Teheran 37th. That's ranking by percentage of pitches swung at that the batter made contact with, ranked in inverse order.

The top 10 are Darvish, Scherzer, Sanchez, Lincecum, Harvey, Strasburg, Sale, Hamels, Nolasco, Kershaw

As a team, our pitching staff is about middle of the road in contact percentage on balls swung at. Our hitters of course are near the bottom.

zitothebrave

09-10-2013, 10:40 AM

The contact % numbers have Medlen ranked 21th, Minor 25th, and Teheran 37th. That's ranking by percentage of pitches swung at that the batter made contact with, ranked in inverse order.

The top 10 are Darvish, Scherzer, Sanchez, Lincecum, Harvey, Strasburg, Sale, Hamels, Nolasco, Kershaw

As a team, our pitching staff is about middle of the road in contact percentage on balls swung at. Our hitters of course are near the bottom.

Contact% is just one piece of the puzzle. SwStr is a better look JMO because it tracks swing and misses and that's it. Nothing else.

nsacpi

09-10-2013, 10:50 AM

Contact% is just one piece of the puzzle. SwStr is a better look JMO because it tracks swing and misses and that's it. Nothing else.

However, you look at it our pitching staff is an anti-three true outcomes staff. It is the opposite of our hitting lineup. You need good defense to make this approach work. And I would argue a savvy catcher is also a big part of the success for any staff that takes that kind of approach.

ramadon101

09-10-2013, 11:34 AM

We don't have power arms but Maholm and Medlen are the only ones who throw under 90. And Medlen, Julio and Minor are all in the top 30 in MLB in Swing Strike% Higher than guys like CC, Wainwright, Gio and Shields.

We have a great staff regardless. But I do hope we can improve our defense in the IF to make our pitching even better. Would be nice if we can move Johnson and get a really good 3B>

How about we trade Chris Johnson to a payroll strapped, non-SABR team (who would give us a few prospects for him) and then turn around and flip those prospects with another piece for Chase Headley? Chase is having an off year, but I suspect he would (1) replace McCann's offense in its entirety for 2014; and (2) provide us with a long-term (hopefully a reasonable extension can be worked out as a condition to a trade), good 3B.

Keep Gattis/Bethancourt as C next year and if Bethancourt breaks out, you have another trade piece (or valuable bench piece) in Gattis.

My ideal lineup
RF Heyward
3B Headley
1B Freeman
LF JUpton
2B LaStella
CF BUpton (hopefully playing to his career line in 2014, at the very least)
SS Simmons
C Bethancourt/Gattis