Braves: OF of both extremes?

[Enscheff]

FG just did some work with the OF defensiuve numbers:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-play-with-new-defensive-data/

The data shows Inciarte as one of the Top 10 OFers defensively over the last 2 seasons (no surprise), while both Kemp and Markakis are Bottom 5 in total plays not made. Kemp is quite possibly the worst defensive OFer currently in the game (Hanley and Trumbo won't be given as many chances to hurt the team in the OF), while Markakis is merely bad (not Bottom 10 in Plays/1200) but gets a lot of innings out there to rack up missed plays.

So knowing this, where are the defensive replacements for Kemp and Markakis? How is a genius GM planning to let these butchers hurt the team defensively to such a huge extent? Why are the Braves going with a 3 man bench with no good OF defender when they have 2 of the worst OF defenders in MLB in everyday roles?

What in the HELL is the Genius doing? Why weren't any of the many RHed 4th OF types brought in to fill this glaring need?

[ramadon101]

I don't purport to know what Coppy is thinking of at the moment, but I do think they thought they would be able to nab Pagan on the cheap. He's reportedly asking for a MLB deal with $5M in guaranteed dollars (or incentives to reach $5M). He also reportedly failed a physical with the Orioles so who knows what the issue may be on that front.

[bravesfanMatt]

Kemp and Markickass will have the team up by 6 runs every night to negate any runs lost. Genius~~

[chop2chip]

What in the HELL is the Genius doing? Why weren't any of the many RHed 4th OF types brought in to fill this glaring need?
I think this certainly qualifies as screaming into the void.

[thethe]

The plan was that this player would be Rodriguez.

[smootness]

Sup Niners.

[Enscheff]

The plan was that this player would be Rodriguez.

So SRod was going to be the defensive replacement at 3B for Garcia while also covering for RF and LF? This roster has 3 of the worst defenders in the game, and SRod was going to fix all 3 at once?

He was a tremendous signing indeed!

[chop2chip]

I can't think of a single type of player easier to find in baseball than a late-innings defensive replacement outfielder, so excuse me as I thumb my nose at this "glaring" (!) need.

[thethe]

So SRod was going to be the defensive replacement at 3B for Garcia while also covering for RF and LF? This roster has 3 of the worst defenders in the game, and SRod was going to fix all 3 at once?

He was a tremendous signing indeed!

No - Jace Peterson/Chase Darnaud could fill in at 3B. Its still very possible that they sign a player. Nothing to get heated about yet sir.

[thethe]

I can't think of a single type of player easier to find in baseball than a late-innings defensive replacement outfielder, so excuse me as I thumb my nose at this "glaring" (!) need.

Exactly.

[Enscheff]

I don't purport to know what Coppy is thinking of at the moment, but I do think they thought they would be able to nab Pagan on the cheap. He's reportedly asking for a MLB deal with $5M in guaranteed dollars (or incentives to reach $5M). He also reportedly failed a physical with the Orioles so who knows what the issue may be on that front.

They need to just offer Pagan a $2M MLB deal with incentives. Why offer him a MiLB deal? Is there really any doubt he would make the MLB roster of a team that employs only 1 good OFer?

[Enscheff]

I can't think of a single type of player easier to find in baseball than a late-innings defensive replacement outfielder, so excuse me as I thumb my nose at this "glaring" (!) need.

Kindly point out a few that are available then. Should be easy, right?

[ramadon101]

Reports are that the Braves are willing to offer Pagan a MLB contract; I think the issue is the dollars now (and perhaps a physical issue ... of course we're also talking about the Os, who have had a less than stellar reputation within the industry with respect to their "physicals" - see, e.g., Gallardo, Balfour, Colvin, Burnitz, Sele, etc. the list goes on and on... so take it for what it's worth).

[chop2chip]

Kindly point out a few that are available then. Should be easy, right?

I don't usually have my ears to the ground on the defensive replacement OF market, so feel free to bump this thread at the end of spring training cuts and I'll take my pick of the myriad of fast players that are literally available every single year.

[thewupk]

I think the real issue is that Coppy doesn't believe in the publicly available defensive stats.

[thethe]

I think the real issue is that Coppy doesn't believe in the publicly available defensive stats.

Has he said this or even hinted as much?

[thewupk]

Has he said this or even hinted as much?

Not at all. But looking at some of the moves recently makes me raise my eyebrow about it. Mainly Kemp and Simmons.

[Southcack77]

FG just did some work with the OF defensiuve numbers:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-play-with-new-defensive-data/

The data shows Inciarte as one of the Top 10 OFers defensively over the last 2 seasons (no surprise), while both Kemp and Markakis are Bottom 5 in total plays not made. Kemp is quite possibly the worst defensive OFer currently in the game (Hanley and Trumbo won't be given as many chances to hurt the team in the OF), while Markakis is merely bad (not Bottom 10 in Plays/1200) but gets a lot of innings out there to rack up missed plays.

So knowing this, where are the defensive replacements for Kemp and Markakis? How is a genius GM planning to let these butchers hurt the team defensively to such a huge extent? Why are the Braves going with a 3 man bench with no good OF defender when they have 2 of the worst OF defenders in MLB in everyday roles?

What in the HELL is the Genius doing? Why weren't any of the many RHed 4th OF types brought in to fill this glaring need?


Oh no. How we will win the World Series ?

[thewupk]

One thing this does show is that the publicly available stats for the most part agree with the good and bad OF defenders. But I doubt that will change many opinions around here.

[Southcack77]

I think the real issue is that Coppy doesn't believe in the publicly available defensive stats.


Or that he isn't immediately concerned with defense as an immediate priority anyway. They get more credit for trying to contend with showy offense than they would with defensive metric moves that also would not actually make them a contender.

I agree with the decision they made to trade Simmons. I don't know if they got the best package back, but if Newcomb and/or Blair actually do hit, it will be fine I suppose.

[thewupk]

Or that he isn't immediately concerned with defense as an immediate priority anyway. They get more credit for trying to contend with showy offense than they would with defensive metric moves that also would not actually make them a contender.

I agree with the decision they made to trade Simmons. I don't know if they got the best package back, but if Newcomb and/or Blair actually do hit, it will be fine I suppose.

Blair is from one of the DBacks trades. I think they sold low on Simmons. And part of that belief is I feel they underestimated his actual value on defense. This is my opinion.

[chop2chip]

Honestly, I would just as soon give the job to Micah Johnson. The blessing of being a bad team is that you can afford to take chances with players with loud tools and hope that you strike gold with one of them.

[bravesfanMatt]

Blair is from one of the DBacks trades. I think they sold low on Simmons. And part of that belief is I feel they underestimated his actual value on defense. This is my opinion.

defensive metrics underestimated Simmons value.. nothing on the planet could quantify his impact. Newk could become a lock down ace and I am not sure I would still be happy with that trade. Simmons is a once in a generational type player... you don't trade that!!!

[Enscheff]

Oh no. How we will win the World Series ?

Point taken. The Braves probably aren't in a position to be worrying about a quality 4th OFer.

[Enscheff]

I think the real issue is that Coppy doesn't believe in the publicly available defensive stats.

Well that is a pretty big issue. This new statcast data definitively shows which OFers are good/bad at converting fly balls into outs. If Genius isn't using that information to build his roster the Braves are at a sever disadvantage.

[Enscheff]

I don't usually have my ears to the ground on the defensive replacement OF market, so feel free to bump this thread at the end of spring training cuts and I'll take my pick of the myriad of fast players that are literally available every single year.

Yeah...I was talking about a 4th OFer that could produce in a semi-platoon role over 300+ PAs, not a guy who wasn't good enough to be the 25th man on another team's bench.

I guess you could call your idea a valid argument though. So at least there's improvement on that front.

[nsacpi]

One of Micah Johnson/Jace/Bonifactio/D'Arnaud or a player not yet on the team is likely to serve as a late inning defensive replacement/pinch runner for Kemp.

[Southcack77]

Blair is from one of the DBacks trades. I think they sold low on Simmons. And part of that belief is I feel they underestimated his actual value on defense. This is my opinion.

Yes, dammit. Chris Ellis. I even looked it up, but I guess that tells you what I subconsciously must think of Blair's chances.

Maybe they should have gotten a better return out of Simmons. I just don't fault trading him in their particular situation.

I tend to think defense value is overrated by the measurements and I have trouble taking the ones that fluctuate drastically year to year very seriously. But defense is not unimportant by any stretch. Simmons was really fun to watch and he'd be a great player to add to a contending team full of offense, but I'm not sure what his purpose was going to be in Atlanta. Hopefully, they will end up getting something out of him.

[thewupk]

Yes, dammit. Chris Ellis. I even looked it up, but I guess that tells you what I subconsciously must think of Blair's chances.

Maybe they should have gotten a better return out of Simmons. I just don't fault trading him in their particular situation.

I tend to think defense value is overrated by the measurements and I have trouble taking the ones that fluctuate drastically year to year very seriously. But defense is not unimportant by any stretch. Simmons was really fun to watch and he'd be a great player to add to a contending team full of offense, but I'm not sure what his purpose was going to be in Atlanta. Hopefully, they will end up getting something out of him.

Runs saved can fluctuate in a given year due to many reasons just like offensive runs. A couple if the chances and the overall small sample size a defender has in a given year compared to being on offense. It's usually a third of a full offensive season.

And Simmons would of been here to help win games.

[Enscheff]

Runs saved can fluctuate in a given year due to many reasons just like offensive runs. A couple if the chances and the overall small sample size a defender has in a given year compared to being on offense. It's usually a third of a full offensive season.

And Simmons would of been here to help win games.

Never understood how people think defensive contributions should be more consistent on a year to year basis than offensive contributions.

[chop2chip]

Yeah...I was talking about a 4th OFer that could produce in a semi-platoon role over 300+ PAs, not a guy who wasn't good enough to be the 25th man on another team's bench.

I guess you could call your idea a valid argument though. So at least there's improvement on that front.

This isn't what you said...


So knowing this, where are the defensive replacements for Kemp and Markakis?

Platoon outfielders =/= late inning defensive replacement OF

[chop2chip]

Never understood how people think defensive contributions should be more consistent on a year to year basis than offensive contributions.

Well there's certainly less randomness in a defensive play than an offensive play, i.e., a defensive player doesn't have to worry about the offensive player knocking the ball out of his glove the same way an offensive player has to worry about (1) who is pitching and (2) if the defender catches his line drives.

I'm also not stating that defense can't vary year to year, but logically I would presume it's much more consistent than offense.

[thewupk]

Well there's certainly less randomness in a defensive play than an offensive play, i.e., a defensive player doesn't have to worry about the offensive player knocking the ball out of his glove the same way an offensive player has to worry about (1) who is pitching and (2) if the defender catches his line drives.

I'm also not stating that defense can't vary year to year, but logically I would presume it's much more consistent than offense.

Think of how small a sample size is for hitters a 1/3 of the season. That's a whole year for a defender. Chances a player has can vary from year to year just as the level of play at that position can vary from year to year. Also actual defensive ability comes and goes a lot quicker than offensive ability in most cases.

[nsacpi]

Think of how small a sample size is for hitters a 1/3 of the season. That's a whole year for a defender. Chances a player has can vary from year to year just as the level of play at that position can vary from year to year. Also actual defensive ability comes and goes a lot quicker than offensive ability in most cases.

And a lot of defensive plays are routine. So the number of defensive opportunities that separate a good defender from a bad one are quite small.

[thewupk]

And a lot of defensive plays are routine. So the number of defensive opportunities that separate a good defender from a bad one are quite small.

Similar to how just 1 hit a week can separate you from being an average or great hitter. The margins are really small when you look at it that way.

[Enscheff]

This isn't what you said...



Platoon outfielders =/= late inning defensive replacement OF

Yes, you are right. This one particular post I only mentioned defensive replacement.

I suppose the other 100 posts I made over the last few months claiming the Braves need a competent RHed 4th OFer don't count.

[chop2chip]

Think of how small a sample size is for hitters a 1/3 of the season. That's a whole year for a defender. Chances a player has can vary from year to year just as the level of play at that position can vary from year to year. Also actual defensive ability comes and goes a lot quicker than offensive ability in most cases.

I agree in the aggregate, but if you distill it down to a single play, defense is less random then offense.

Circling back to your original point - I agree with your overall premise, but I think it's fine to reliability of defensive metrics, while acknowledging their value. I refer defensive metrics all the time and accept them at face value for the most part, but there's certainly limited cases where I don't think they match reality.

[chop2chip]

Yes, you are right. This one particular post I only mentioned defensive replacement.

I suppose the other 100 posts I made over the last few months claiming the Braves need a competent RHed 4th OFer don't count.

I'm sorry I answered a question that you posed in the opening post. Next time I'll make sure I research your 3,815 posts before I respond.

[Enscheff]

I'm sorry I answered a question that you posed in the opening post. Next time I'll make sure I research your 3,815 posts before I respond.

Oddly enough, you were the only person that didn't get it. Hmm...maybe not that odd...

[thewupk]

I agree in the aggregate, but if you distill it down to a single play, defense is less random then offense.

Circling back to your original point - I agree with your overall premise, but I think it's fine to reliability of defensive metrics, while acknowledging their value. I refer defensive metrics all the time and accept them at face value for the most part, but there's certainly limited cases where I don't think they match reality.

I'm sure that's the case in some situations. Hopefully Statcast starts to eliminate that noise.

[chop2chip]

Oddly enough, you were the only person that didn't get it. Hmm...maybe not that odd...
Okay. I'm happy for you.

[Braves1976]

Not at all. But looking at some of the moves recently makes me raise my eyebrow about it. Mainly Kemp and Simmons.

Not just that but Coppy was among Chris Johnson's biggest supporters at the time we extended him. He saw no issue with CJ's terrible defense.

[Braves1976]

defensive metrics underestimated Simmons value.. nothing on the planet could quantify his impact. Newk could become a lock down ace and I am not sure I would still be happy with that trade. Simmons is a once in a generational type player... you don't trade that!!!

Exactly and if Newcomb becomes a bust or even just a bullpen arm we will have nothing for giving Simmons away. This is a lot more likely to happen than him becoming a top line starter too. You don't gamble with a once in a generation talent that way. It's stupid.

[rico43]

FG just did some work with the OF defensiuve numbers:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-play-with-new-defensive-data/

The data shows Inciarte as one of the Top 10 OFers defensively over the last 2 seasons (no surprise), while both Kemp and Markakis are Bottom 5 in total plays not made. Kemp is quite possibly the worst defensive OFer currently in the game (Hanley and Trumbo won't be given as many chances to hurt the team in the OF), while Markakis is merely bad (not Bottom 10 in Plays/1200) but gets a lot of innings out there to rack up missed plays.

So knowing this, where are the defensive replacements for Kemp and Markakis? How is a genius GM planning to let these butchers hurt the team defensively to such a huge extent? Why are the Braves going with a 3 man bench with no good OF defender when they have 2 of the worst OF defenders in MLB in everyday roles?

What in the HELL is the Genius doing? Why weren't any of the many RHed 4th OF types brought in to fill this glaring need?

Because spring training isn't over yet. How the HELL did you not know that?

[Braves1976]

Because spring training isn't over yet. How the HELL did you not know that?

Spring training isn't going to tell us anything else about Boni we don't already know. And if you're thinking maybe they plan to pick up an out of options CFer to back-up, look at MLBTR lists and show me one there that might get waived as I don't see any. Pagan is a 4th outfield option, though limited to LF mainly, but Braves seem only interested in him if he comes very cheap. So if not Boni or Pagan only other serious option is to make a trade before the season starts. Time will tell if they do so or if they just go with Boni.

[50PoundHead]

Spring training isn't going to tell us anything else about Boni we don't already know. And if you're thinking maybe they plan to pick up an out of options CFer to back-up, look at MLBTR lists and show me one there that might get waived as I don't see any. Pagan is a 4th outfield option, though limited to LF mainly, but Braves seem only interested in him if he comes very cheap. So if not Boni or Pagan only other serious option is to make a trade before the season starts. Time will tell if they do so or if they just go with Boni.

I think he's talking about other teams' rosters. Lot of guys might be moving during cut-downs.

[Braves1976]

I think he's talking about other teams' rosters. Lot of guys might be moving during cut-downs.

I don't see any good back-up CF options that might be moving from all teams "out of options list" via MLBTR, do you? Those are who usually hit waivers.

[smootness]

I mean, the Braves should only be interested in Pagan if he comes cheap. Why, again, are we so caught up on who the 4th OF is this year? I get that neither Kemp or Markakis are great options, but that's sort of exactly why it doesn't matter all that much who the 4th OF is. Next year, sure.

[Southcack77]

Think of how small a sample size is for hitters a 1/3 of the season. That's a whole year for a defender. Chances a player has can vary from year to year just as the level of play at that position can vary from year to year. Also actual defensive ability comes and goes a lot quicker than offensive ability in most cases.

I feel like what you are saying here is that sample size for defensive numbers makes the stats somewhat unreliable year to year.

[Southcack77]

And a lot of defensive plays are routine. So the number of defensive opportunities that separate a good defender from a bad one are quite small.

if the number of opportunities separating good defenders from bad are relatively small, is defense really equally as valuable as offense?

[Southcack77]

Not just that but Coppy was among Chris Johnson's biggest supporters at the time we extended him. He saw no issue with CJ's terrible defense.

That extension looked terrible from the beginning. From the offensive side even more than defense. Paying him for good fortune essentially.

Also hated Uggla, which worked out even worse than I had thought.

[nsacpi]

if the number of opportunities separating good defenders from bad are relatively small, is defense really equally as valuable as offense?

The answer is no. Think about it this way. Run creation and run prevention are equally important. But a big chunk of run prevention is pitching. The rest is defense. Defense is only a fraction of run prevention.

[smootness]

if the number of opportunities separating good defenders from bad are relatively small, is defense really equally as valuable as offense?

Depends on what you mean. There is more opportunity for impact on the offensive side, I don't think there's any question about that. But a single player can absolutely be as, or more, valuable on defense than he is on offense. Simmons, for example. Now, if Simmons were as good a hitter as he is a defensive player, would his offensive value be equal to his defensive value? No, his offensive value would definitely surpass his defensive value. The range of offensive values is greater than the range of defensive values. But a player providing 2 wins on defense is the same as a player providing 2 wins on offense.

[thewupk]

I feel like what you are saying here is that sample size for defensive numbers makes the stats somewhat unreliable year to year.

It doesn't change what has happened though. Using these to predict future performance is another thing all together. Player X having a great defensive year doesn't tell us much other than he did really well that year. Player X having several great defensive years in a row suggests he really is a great defender.

[thewupk]

if the number of opportunities separating good defenders from bad are relatively small, is defense really equally as valuable as offense?

It depends what you are trying to say. A run saved on defense is equal to a run created on offense. That is true. However when in the context of WAR an excellent defender (Heyward, Simmons, etc) will save you about 20 runs a year. An excellent hitter will create you 60 runs a year.

An excellent hitter with avg defense will always be more valuable than an excellent defender who is an avg hitter.

[bravesfanMatt]

So a defensive metric question.

how does some of the analytics take into consideration a play like this.

sinking liner to RF..

Player A dives for the ball and it turns into a double/Triple
Player B plays on bounce and it is a single.

[Southcack77]

It doesn't change what has happened though. Using these to predict future performance is another thing all together. Player X having a great defensive year doesn't tell us much other than he did really well that year. Player X having several great defensive years in a row suggests he really is a great defender.

With certain obvious exceptions such as injury or age decline, defensive ability ought to be a fairly consistent skill set.

I can see how a small sample size might make measuring that ability difficult and lead to up and down numbers that are not particularly predictive. And obviously the stat can only measure according to the methodology that goes into it.

But if the metric itself is plagued by sample sized issues and is not predictive there is some question as to how useful a measurement it is and how much it should be weighted in the overall computation of a player's value.

[Southcack77]

It depends what you are trying to say. A run saved on defense is equal to a run created on offense. That is true. However when in the context of WAR an excellent defender (Heyward, Simmons, etc) will save you about 20 runs a year. An excellent hitter will create you 60 runs a year.

An excellent hitter with avg defense will always be more valuable than an excellent defender who is an avg hitter.


So let's say you have an excellent defender who saves 20 runs and a excellent hitter that creates 60 runs. What is his WAR and how much of it is offense/defense comparatively?

[thewupk]

So a defensive metric question.

how does some of the analytics take into consideration a play like this.

sinking liner to RF..

Player A dives for the ball and it turns into a double/Triple
Player B plays on bounce and it is a single.


Don't have the exact math on this but this is roughly what happens. It depends what normally happens on that play. If it's generally a play that is a single then player B gets will get no positive or negative effect on his defensive metrics. It will be in the bucket of a long list of plays that are considered routine. Given that, if player A risks it and essentially tuns a single into a double or triple then he is seen as costing his team a single or double depending on if the play is a double or triple.

There is a run equivalency to what a single or double normally produce in runs on a given year. And those are added up to determine how many runs you either save or cost the team.

Now that is a basic idea of it. The math gets harder when you have a play for example that is an out like 70% of the time. Average players have a harder time making that but good defenders don't etc.

[thewupk]

With certain obvious exceptions such as injury or age decline, defensive ability ought to be a fairly consistent skill set.

I can see how a small sample size might make measuring that ability difficult and lead to up and down numbers that are not particularly predictive. And obviously the stat can only measure according to the methodology that goes into it.

But if the metric itself is plagued by sample sized issues and is not predictive there is some question as to how useful a measurement it is and how much it should be weighted in the overall computation of a player's value.

WAR shouldn't be used as a predictive measure though. It's about what actually happens on the field. You can look at trends in these models to give you a better idea of what might happen in the future.

And also you have to keep in mind these stats are comparing your play to that of what the rest of the league is doing. So you could theoretically play at the same ability but your stats will be worse if the play around the league has improved as a whole.

[thewupk]

So let's say you have an excellent defender who saves 20 runs and a excellent hitter that creates 60 runs. What is his WAR and how much of it is offense/defense comparatively?

That player is Willie Mays in his prime. That's when you get those 10+ WAR seasons. But in those seasons about 1/4 of his value is defense and 2/4's is offense. The other 1/4 comes from just being an everyday player.

[chop2chip]

Kindly point out a few that are available then. Should be easy, right?

Oh hey look - end of spring training and teams are looking to trade extra outfielders. From Rosenthal...


Sources: #Cubs’ Matt Szczur among trade candidates #Braves considering for extra OFer. Szczur out of options; Cubs expected to keep him.

Obviously nothing is imminent and Rosenthal himself said Cubs want to hold onto him, but this is the exact type of player I expect the Braves to sniff around on as teams try to trim their rosters.

[bravesfanMatt]

Oh hey look - end of spring training and teams are looking to trade extra outfielders. From Rosenthal...



Obviously nothing is imminent and Rosenthal himself said Cubs want to hold onto him, but this is the exact type of player I expect the Braves to sniff around on as teams try to trim their rosters.

Cubs have no need for him and need to trade him. He would be a waste on the 25 man roster imo. what Rosey was saying was that they would keep him over just waiving him. Basically telling any teams interested that they better come with a real offer.. Really a win/win for both clubs and I would not be surprised if it gets done.

[CJ9]

Cubs have no need for him and need to trade him. He would be a waste on the 25 man roster imo. what Rosey was saying was that they would keep him over just waiving him. Basically telling any teams interested that they better come with a real offer.. Really a win/win for both clubs and I would not be surprised if it gets done.

Hopefully we're not willing to give up anything of substance for a fourth OF.

[Braves1976]

Hopefully we're not willing to give up anything of substance for a fourth OF.

Matt Szczur is more like a 5th outfielder as MLBTR notes and he's not good defensively. So not an ideal back-up on defense but he could be a slight upgrade from Boni on offense for the bench.

[Enscheff]

Oh hey look - end of spring training and teams are looking to trade extra outfielders. From Rosenthal...



Obviously nothing is imminent and Rosenthal himself said Cubs want to hold onto him, but this is the exact type of player I expect the Braves to sniff around on as teams try to trim their rosters.

Again, I was hoping for a competent 4th OFer. Szczur, or any other guy that can't make a 25 man roster, doesn't qualify.

Are you capable of understanding a nuanced point? I could be added to the 25 man roster as the 4th OFer, but that's not what I meant when I claimed the Braves need to address the situation.

[chop2chip]

Again, I was hoping for a competent 4th OFer. Szczur, or any other guy that can't make a 25 man roster, doesn't qualify.

Are you capable of understanding a nuanced point? I could be added to the 25 man roster as the 4th OFer, but that's not what I meant when I claimed the Braves need to address the situation.

Sure I understand your point. We hashed out that argument last week. Let sleeping dogs lie, I say.

In terms of Szczur, or players of his ilk, I like the idea of sniffing around players that won't cost real trade assets and/or are inexpensive and/or on the right side of 30. Is Szczur that player? Maybe, depends if you think he's the same 1-2 WAR player he was last year. I would prefer him over Angel Pagan.

[Braves1976]

If the White Sox cut out of options Rymer Liriano I'd grab him to be a back-up OF. He is only hitting .205 with a .705 OPS and too many K's in spring but he is also coming off missing a lot of time due to injury. Bottom line is that I still like his potential, his minor league track record prior to the injury was solid: http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=lirian001rym. I could see him cutting down the K's and taking off at some point. So I'd stash him on the bench as a back-up OF, he is a RHH too, then if he breaks out you have a long-term starting OF and possibly an Acuna-Inciarte-Liriano trio in 2019.

[nsacpi]

It would make more sense if that last hitter was a lefty. We currently have Jace from the left side and presumably Bonifacio from the right (he is a switch hitter but hits much better righty). You want more left handed hitting options.

[chop2chip]

It would make more sense if that last hitter was a lefty. We currently have Jace from the left side and presumably Bonifacio from the right (he is a switch hitter but hits much better righty). You want more left handed hitting options.

I think the idea is you grab a RH outfielder who can occasionally spell Ender/Markakis against a tough lefty.

[50PoundHead]

Again, I was hoping for a competent 4th OFer. Szczur, or any other guy that can't make a 25 man roster, doesn't qualify.

Are you capable of understanding a nuanced point? I could be added to the 25 man roster as the 4th OFer, but that's not what I meant when I claimed the Braves need to address the situation.

That's a really good 25-man roster that Szczur wouldn't make.

[nsacpi]

I think the idea is you grab a RH outfielder who can occasionally spell Ender/Markakis against a tough lefty.

In which case, we shouldn't carry Bonifacio and carry a lefty hitter in his place.

[Tapate50]

That's a really good 25-man roster that Szczur wouldn't make.

Right?

[jpx7]

Right?

I feel like they won something recently?

[50PoundHead]

In which case, we shouldn't carry Bonifacio and carry a lefty hitter in his place.

Are the Dodgers going to hang onto Franklin Gutierrez? He's falling off quite quickly, but he's cheap and can play the corner OF spots. Not an ideal fit, but would be a decent RHH off the bench.

[nsacpi]

That player is Willie Mays in his prime.

aka poor man's Ronald Acuna

[Enscheff]

Matt Szczur is more like a 5th outfielder as MLBTR notes and he's not good defensively. So not an ideal back-up on defense but he could be a slight upgrade from Boni on offense for the bench.

.731 career OPS vs LHers is all that is really relevant. Considering Markakis posted a .613 mark vs LHer last year, and Inciarte has a career .641 against them, Szczur would be an offensive upgrade over them against 1-2 LHers per week. While he isn't a "good" defender, he is leaps and bounds better than Kemp, and would be worth putting in as a late game defensive upgrade.

I was hoping for a better 4th OFer (more like a 3rd OFer miscast as a bench player by the Braves due to them incorrectly identifying Kemp and Markakis as everyday players), but grabbing a 25 year old guy that can handle CF and hit a little vs LHers wouldn't be the worst scenario if they get him for a reasonable price.

Staying with the current OF bench options is unacceptable given how poor Kemp and Markakis are.

[50PoundHead]

If the White Sox cut out of options Rymer Liriano I'd grab him to be a back-up OF. He is only hitting .205 with a .705 OPS and too many K's in spring but he is also coming off missing a lot of time due to injury. Bottom line is that I still like his potential, his minor league track record prior to the injury was solid: http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=lirian001rym. I could see him cutting down the K's and taking off at some point. So I'd stash him on the bench as a back-up OF, he is a RHH too, then if he breaks out you have a long-term starting OF and possibly an Acuna-Inciarte-Liriano trio in 2019.

I'd say pick him up on his name alone.

As for Szczur, he's 25th guy for the Cubs because of the versatility they have on their bench. He's better than Schwarber in LF and he is a RHH off the bench and can play RF if Heyward slides over the CF or is taken out as part of a double-switch. I don't know if that profile fits with the Braves, but as you say, he's better defensively than Kemp and he would give us a RHH guy with some power on the bench. Only thing Bonifacio brings to the table is the ability to play six positions on the field.