Around MLB 2017

[mossy]

Melvin Upton Jr released by Toronto per mlbtraderumors

[NinersSBChamps]

Hope Archer gets it back for Tampa this season. He's a fun guy to watch out there.

[Skeeter31]

Christian Bethancourt made the Padres 25-man roster as catcher/outfielder/8th bullpen arm.

[NinersSBChamps]

Tanaka looking terrible for the Yankees.

[nsacpi]

Christian Bethancourt made the Padres 25-man roster as catcher/outfielder/8th bullpen arm.

what did we get for him

[msstate7]

Mallex opening day LF for rays.

[cajunrevenge]

Yankees getting blown out.... glorious opening day.

[chop2chip]

Christian Bethancourt made the Padres 25-man roster as catcher/outfielder/8th bullpen arm.
He's not very good at any of those things, but this is fun nonetheless.

[Tapate50]

what did we get for him

What's he worth?

[nsacpi]

What's he worth?

A spot on a major league roster. As I recall, we opted for another year of AJ's veteran leadership when we traded Bethancourt. So maybe we didn't have any room at the inn.

[drewdat]

Bumgarner going to win the Triple Crown?

[NinersSBChamps]

MadBum more homers than Swanson on the season?

[thewupk]

MadBum more homers than Swanson on the season?

What about Markakis? Or really any Brave besides Kemp and Freeman?

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

What about Markakis? Or really any Brave besides Kemp and Freeman?

Based on Spring Training, Suntrust Park is more of a hitter's park than Coors, so even our pitchers will have more HRs than MadBum.

[NYCBrave]

Don't know if it was mentioned, but Alex Wood starting out in Dodgers bullpen.

[Tapate50]

A spot on a major league roster. As I recall, we opted for another year of AJ's veteran leadership when we traded Bethancourt. So maybe we didn't have any room at the inn.

He couldn't make our team then. I doubt it.

[mossy]

Markickass with the grab!

[chop2chip]

Chacin is San Diego's opening day starter and it's going about as well as you would imagine.

Woof.

[msstate7]

Bethancourt is pitching. 4 pitch walk complete with WP to let runner at 3rd score

[bravesfanMatt]

Bethancourt is pitching. 4 pitch walk complete with WP to let runner at 3rd score

We will never catch SD for the best record for Beer.

[msstate7]

We will never catch SD for the best record for Beer.

EOF, Chaz, and krol say don't give up so easily

[jpx7]

Very interesting to watch legitimate teams, then reflect on the Braves.

[Julio3000]

We will never catch SD for the best record for Beer.

Never should have let AJ go. Interpret however you like.

[drewdat]

We will never catch SD for the best record for Beer.

I thought Wade Boggs had that.

[rico43]

Didja notice who the first person was out of the ineffective Padres' bullpen was yesterday? Bethancourt! Worked 1.1 innings, 3 hits, 2 walks, 3 ER (a three-run dong to Seager).

Moylan: one-third of an inning, one strikeout for KC.

[smootness]

We will never catch SD for the best record for Beer.

San Diego has truly outdone themselves in putting a garbage product on the field. Margot and Renfroe will have to be good immediately for them to win more than about 60 games.

[Tapate50]

Didja notice who the first person was out of the ineffective Padres' bullpen was yesterday? Bethancourt! Worked 1.1 innings, 3 hits, 2 walks, 3 ER (a three-run dong to Seager).



But but but... he made the roster.

[nsacpi]

But but but... he made the roster.

I'm not too disturbed by that because moving him allowed us an extra season of AJ's veteran leadership to help guide and teach our young pitching staff.

[50PoundHead]

Didja notice who the first person was out of the ineffective Padres' bullpen was yesterday? Bethancourt! Worked 1.1 innings, 3 hits, 2 walks, 3 ER (a three-run dong to Seager).

Moylan: one-third of an inning, one strikeout for KC.

There's a veritable plethora of ineffective ex-Braves in San Diego. In addition to Bethancourt, there's Trevor Cahill, Erick Aybar, and Jhoulys Chacin. I would add Ryan Buchter, but he pitched a grand total of one inning as a Brave.

When Chacin is your opening day starter, that really says something and what it says isn't particularly good.

[chop2chip]

There's a veritable plethora of ineffective ex-Braves in San Diego. In addition to Bethancourt, there's Trevor Cahill, Erick Aybar, and Jhoulys Chacin. I would add Ryan Buchter, but he pitched a grand total of one inning as a Brave.

When Chacin is your opening day starter, that really says something and what it says isn't particularly good.
That's what a $33 million dollar roster will buy you.

[msstate7]

Is it too late to trade for Quintana? Looks like he'd fit right in...

2.0 ip 3 h 5 er 2 bb 0 k

[bravesfanMatt]

Is it too late to trade for Quintana? Looks like he'd fit right in...

2.0 ip 3 h 5 er 2 bb 0 k

Would be a real genius move if Q blows out an elbow and the Suxs are stuck holding the bag.

[Knucksie]

Was in Toronto over the weekend. Blue Jays home exhibition game was on TV near the bar in the restaurant on Saturday. Saw our old pal, Salty, up at the plate for Toronto.

[thethe]

Would be a real genius move if Q blows out an elbow and the Suxs are stuck holding the bag.

He will get 75 cents on the dollar what he could have gotten this offseason.

[cajunrevenge]

It doesn't matter how many runs Bethancourt gives up on the mound. He should only be pitching when the Padres are way ahead, way behind, or long extra inning games to save the other relievers arms. Giving up 3 runs when your down 5 in the 8th does not matter.

[drewdat]

It doesn't matter how many runs Bethancourt gives up on the mound. He should only be pitching when the Long Island Ducks are way ahead, way behind, or long extra inning games to save the other relievers arms. Giving up 3 runs when your down 5 in the 8th does not matter.

FYP

[50PoundHead]

Maybe we should start an "Ex-Brave of the Day" thread so that the performance of ex-Braves can be channeled into one place. Hard to vote against Heyward's RBI single in the Cubs' win, but I'm going with Erick Aybar's 3-3 with 2 2Bs and a walk in the Padres' 4-0 win over the Dodgers.

[thewupk]

Maybe we should start an "Ex-Brave of the Day" thread so that the performance of ex-Braves can be channeled into one place. Hard to vote against Heyward's RBI single in the Cubs' win, but I'm going with Erick Aybar's 3-3 with 2 2Bs and a walk in the Padres' 4-0 win over the Dodgers.

He's going to be the next Reggie Sanders and Melky Cabrera

[bravesfanMatt]

He's going to be the next Reggie Sanders and Melky Cabrera

So he will start juicing?

[thewupk]

So he will start juicing?

He already is

[NinersSBChamps]

Piscotty had some bad luck.

http://www.esquire.com/sports/videos/a54314/piscotty-hit-3-times-in-one-inning/

Watch the video in the link.

[thewupk]

Minor pitching for the Royals and hitting 95 out of the pen

[Carp]

I hope Minor does well. Good kid

[DaneHill]

God, just when I thought I couldn't hate the Yankees more, along comes this bratty idiot. If this account is true and not a joke, then he's immediately topped Bryce for my most disliked player. Ugh. Trade him to Japan.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/yankees-top-prospect-reportedly-asked-if-team-would-un-retire-a-legend%e2%80%99s-number/ar-BBzs3lc?ocid=spartanntp

[trob15]

Braves just signed Ryan Howard to a MiLB deal, per Bowman.

[Hawk]

Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
Shohei Ohtani, the Babe Ruth of Japan, told 60 Minutes he will sign with #MLB team after season, which could cost him $200M by not waiting.

---

Not going to happen, but I'd love Ohtani.

Like, give up my left testicle kind of love.

[thewupk]

Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
Shohei Ohtani, the Babe Ruth of Japan, told 60 Minutes he will sign with #MLB team after season, which could cost him $200M by not waiting.

---

Not going to happen, but I'd love Ohtani.

Like, give up my left testicle kind of love.

There are talent evaluators that say he's a top 10 pitching talent on the planet right now. He would be someone to go after.

[smootness]

Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
Shohei Ohtani, the Babe Ruth of Japan, told 60 Minutes he will sign with #MLB team after season, which could cost him $200M by not waiting.

---

Not going to happen, but I'd love Ohtani.

Like, give up my left testicle kind of love.

We don't have a shot, we're limited to a max of $300,000. It will be interesting to watch, though, because there will be several teams who offer him their entire pool. Won't be a ton, but will be interesting to see where he goes.

If history is an indication, though, he'll be a pretty good player who is seriously overhyped.

[thewupk]

We don't have a shot, we're limited to a max of $300,000. It will be interesting to watch, though, because there will be several teams who offer him their entire pool. Won't be a ton, but will be interesting to see where he goes.

If history is an indication, though, he'll be a pretty good player who is seriously overhyped.

If Ohtani is giving up 200+ million by not waiting a couple of years then I doubt a team not being able to max out signing him is going to be an issue. I think he's going to want to be able to hit and whatever team promises him the best opportunity to do that will be the one to sign him.

Also, is there anything against immediately putting him on the 25 man roster and signing him to like an 8 year extension? It's different since he is 22 and that is something you could do. Not something you would do to a 16 year old kid.

[smootness]

If Ohtani is giving up 200+ million by not waiting a couple of years then I doubt a team not being able to max out signing him is going to be an issue. I think he's going to want to be able to hit and whatever team promises him the best opportunity to do that will be the one to sign him.

Also, is there anything against immediately putting him on the 25 man roster and signing him to like an 8 year extension? It's different since he is 22 and that is something you could do. Not something you would do to a 16 year old kid.

He'll sign with a team maxing out their pool because any team who wants him will be willing to max out their pool.

[thewupk]

He'll sign with a team maxing out their pool because any team who wants him will be willing to max out their pool.

So you are saying he wouldn't consider a team that's in the penalty if they let him hit and pitch and no other team would give him that option?

[smootness]

So you are saying he wouldn't consider a team that's in the penalty if they let him hit and pitch and no other team would give him that option?

Are you trying to argue the Braves have a shot at $300,000?

He's likely willing to forgo a much bigger contract because he wants to go ahead and get into MLB and thinks he'll eventually make enough with the additional couple years.

Do I think he'll be willing to forgo $5 million or so and take $300,000? No, I definitely don't.

[thewupk]

Are you trying to argue the Braves have a shot at $300,000?

He's likely willing to forgo a much bigger contract because he wants to go ahead and get into MLB and thinks he'll eventually make enough with the additional couple years.

Do I think he'll be willing to forgo $5 million or so and take $300,000? No, I definitely don't.

I'm saying a team the most willingly to let him hit the most will have a great chance to sign him. He's already making 2.3 million in Japan this year. There is a big difference between Ohtani and 16 year old kid getting money for the first time. That signing bonus could be the only thing that 16 year old ever gets and he's years away from seeing MLB time. Ohtani would go straight to MLB and could sign an extension at any time.

[sturg33]

I'm saying a team the most willingly to let him hit the most will have a great chance to sign him. He's already making 2.3 million in Japan this year. There is a big difference between Ohtani and 16 year old kid getting money for the first time. That signing bonus could be the only thing that 16 year old ever gets and he's years away from seeing MLB time. Ohtani would go straight to MLB and could sign an extension at any time.

I think I read in a recent Dave Cameron chat that MLB would not allow an immediate extension to get around the rule... could be wrong but I definitely remember a question being asked about it

[thewupk]

I think I read in a recent Dave Cameron chat that MLB would not allow an immediate extension to get around the rule... could be wrong but I definitely remember a question being asked about it

That would make sense but my point still stands. If Ohtani wanted to max out his money he would wait. I think it's clear he wants to play over here ASAP. And if he still wants to hit some he will go to a team giving him the best chance to do that which is likely an AL team. I don't think money will necessarily be a factor.

[smootness]

That would make sense but my point still stands. If Ohtani wanted to max out his money he would wait. I think it's clear he wants to play over here ASAP. And if he still wants to hit some he will go to a team giving him the best chance to do that which is likely an AL team. I don't think money will necessarily be a factor.

I agree with you that it won't be the only factor, and based on the fact that he's not waiting, it may not be a huge factor.

But getting to MLB 2 years earlier does have monetary benefits as well, so it's not as though his choice is simply between $200 million and $5 million.

But once the offers are on the table, I find it very hard to believe he would take the $300,000 offer over the $5 million offer. But we'll see, I certainly could be wrong.

[mossy]

Melvin Upton signs with Giants, per MLB at bat app.

[50PoundHead]

Watching the Cubs/Brewers on mlb with Cubs' announcers. So much verbal fellatio on the Cubs' players that it ought to be X-rated.

[rico43]

Nice choice by the Nationals to add Jeremy Guthrie to their rotation. Phillies tee off for 12-run first inning; Guthrie lasted two outs. First inning took 53 minutes.

[thethe]

Wonder how much money this kid will get back at home in advertisements once he is in the big leagues.

[NinersSBChamps]

Kendall Graveman with a no hitter through against the Rangers down in Arlington.

[thewupk]

Mallex already with 3 SB.

[thethe]

Mallex already with 3 SB.

Loved mallex. Should have dumped nick.

[bravesnumberone]

Should not have ever signed Nick, actually.

[zbhargrove]

Should not have ever signed Nick, actually.

I do feel sorry for Nick kinda. He's been nothing but a damn good Brave. He always puts 150% effort out there and is just a great guy. He hasn't been a world beater but I think he's at least been slightly better than we hoped. Don't love the contract but I can't help but root for the guy. I also think the contract was pretty reasonable looking at some of the other insane contracts out there.

[thewupk]

Early returns are paying dividends for Heyward so far

[msstate7]

Couple nice games tomorrow on our day off...

Red Sox (sale) vs tigers (verlander)
Dodgers (wood) vs cubs (Lester)

[thethe]

Jason groome injurred.

[sturg33]

Wood hitting 95 on the gun in the 1st

[sturg33]

Wood looking good

[thethe]

Very good...hope he finds a way to stay healthy. If he does he will have a good season.

[Tapate50]

Wood looking good

Really? Saw where he walked 5 in three IP?

[Russ2dollas]

Wood looking good

If that's good we should bring up Newcombe now

[thethe]

If that's good we should bring up Newcombe now

His narrative was busted about 2.1 innings in.

To be fair though he had solid velocity and bite on the slider. However, Wood seems to be at this point a 2 inning reliever.

[thewupk]

His narrative was busted about 2.1 innings in.

To be fair though he had solid velocity and bite on the slider. However, Wood seems to be at this point a 2 inning reliever.

I wouldn't peg him as a 2 inning reliever after one start when he started the year in the pen. The walks were an issue last night but that 1.59 ERA sure is nice.

[sturg33]

Really? Saw where he walked 5 in three IP?

Yeah - he faded in the 4th and 5th inning. He got burned in the third due to Puig dropping a foul ball which would have ended the inning before walking Scwarber and giving up a double to Bryant.

His stuff was great though

[Russ2dollas]

I wouldn't peg him as a 2 inning reliever after one start when he started the year in the pen. The walks were an issue last night but that 1.59 ERA sure is nice.

I thought you were a stat guy? using ERA?

5 walks means you are very lucky to not give up runs unless you are super nasty.

[Russ2dollas]

Yeah - he faded in the 4th and 5th inning. He got burned in the third due to Puig dropping a foul ball which would have ended the inning before walking Scwarber and giving up a double to Bryant.

His stuff was great though

He should still be a Brave. And he's not been anywhere near what he was as a brave for LA.

While we are loving small samples where are all of the peraza lovers with his 550 OPS?

[sturg33]

Sorry guys. Forgot he was a former Brave.

Wood was AWFUL. Thank goodness Coppy got rid of him when he did for HO!

[thewupk]

I thought you were a stat guy? using ERA?

5 walks means you are very lucky to not give up runs unless you are super nasty.

I just try to use stats that thethe is familiar with. Yeah Wood did not have a good game at all. Lucky to give up just the 1 run he did.

[bravesfanMatt]

Sorry guys. Forgot he was a former Brave.

Wood was AWFUL. Thank goodness Coppy got rid of him when he did for HO!

HO would have hit the ball if someone would have put lipstick on the damn ball. complete failure on the FO for not seeing that.

[thewupk]

He should still be a Brave. And he's not been anywhere near what he was as a brave for LA.

While we are loving small samples where are all of the peraza lovers with his 550 OPS?

His time in LA last year before going down with an injury was really good. 3.18 FIP is pretty strong. I think his 4+ FIP in LA in 2015 is what's going to be the fluke. I suspect his FIP to be in the mid 3's this year.

Peraza will go as far as his contact ability lets him. He's not going to walk much which is bad. But he's not going to K much either which is good. His 280 BABIP will almost certainly be a lot higher as well. OPS won't be a true measure of his offensive ability as he will get a lot of value from his baserunning (assuming he can get on base).

[thethe]

I just try to use stats that thethe is familiar with. Yeah Wood did not have a good game at all. Lucky to give up just the 1 run he did.

He was lucky that heywood was up that last inning

[thewupk]

He was lucky that heywood was up that last inning

true

[bravesfanforlife88]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9JSOP9XoAIoQqy.jpg


Ryan Howard looks.....heavy

[bravesfanMatt]

Why is there a Carolina Mudcats logo still up there.. Can someone not buy them a firefrog already..

[Hawk]

Maybe the firefrog is hard to illustrate because nobody knows what the **** it is.

[sturg33]

Still no Kemp tonight.

This is one way to keep his DRS from declining

[thewupk]

Peraza at 0.4 bWAR so far. Speed and defense ftw!

[thewupk]

Mallex to the DL :(

[bravesfanMatt]

Mallex to the DL :(

saw that.. tweaked Hammy doing Mallex things.. (run down from bad base running)

[thethe]

Quintana continuing to have a rough start to the year.

[msstate7]

Quintana continuing to have a rough start to the year.

Hopefully he continues to struggle and maybe we can get him cheaper

[thewupk]

Quintana continuing to have a rough start to the year.

braves know about waiting too long to trade a guy

[bravesfanMatt]

braves know about waiting too long to trade a guy

Wait I thought the whitesoxs where geniuses for the perfect rebuild.

[thewupk]

Looks like Eric Thames has come back to MLB with a vengeance.

[thethe]

Looks like Eric Thames has come back to MLB with a vengeance.

My fantasy team approves.

[thewupk]

My fantasy team approves.

Yeah I had him added before last nights game. Good times.

[50PoundHead]

Looks like Eric Thames has come back to MLB with a vengeance.

Thames got out of South Korea just in time. Kim Jong Un probably thought the rockets Thames launched playing in Korea was an actual military build-up. Good thing Thames' missiles go further than Un's.

[bravesfanMatt]

Sterling Marte busted for PED.. 80 games. oops.

[thewupk]

Sterling Marte busted for PED.. 80 games. oops.

gottem

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Sterling Marte busted for PED.. 80 games. oops.

Didn't realize the funny part of this- McCutchen in CF again.

[UNCBlue012]

C-Beth pitched an inning for the Padres again tonight and he gave up 2 unearned runs ... oh, and Erick Aybar also pitched. Wow.

[Preacher]

Byron Buxton off to a brutal start;

.083/.137/.125 24 with 24 strikeouts in 48 at bats.

[bravesfanMatt]

Byron Buxton off to a brutal start;

.083/.137/.125 24 with 24 strikeouts in 48 at bats.

I really thought he would rebound after last season. He was as can't miss as any prospect 2 years ago.

[sturg33]

MadBum to DL after dirt bike accident. First time in his career...

I imagine the Giants aren't too happy about this

[nsacpi]

I really thought he would rebound after last season. He was as can't miss as any prospect 2 years ago.

no such thing as a sure thing

[50PoundHead]

Byron Buxton off to a brutal start;

.083/.137/.125 24 with 24 strikeouts in 48 at bats.

Molitor had him batting 3rd the first five games of the season, which some up here are attributing to part of his issues. Buxton simply can't hit breaking balls so that is all he sees.

[thethe]

Harper on the way to being the best player in baseball 2 of the last 3 years?

[NinersSBChamps]

Molitor had him batting 3rd the first five games of the season, which some up here are attributing to part of his issues. Buxton simply can't hit breaking balls so that is all he sees.


Yeah he's been awful. I try not to watch too many Twins games, (it's bad for the eyes) but he's just overmatched every single at bat. Great defender and base runner, but useless with a bat.

[NinersSBChamps]

Harper on the way to being the best player in baseball 2 of the last 3 years?

Give me Altuve and Betts.

[smootness]

Give me Altuve and Betts.

Over Trout?

Trout is the clear #1 until somebody bumps him down. If Harper keeps up what he's doing or what he did 2 years ago, then yes, he would probably do it.

[msstate7]

Arrieta gives up 4 to reds in 1st.

[NinersSBChamps]

Over Trout?

Trout is the clear #1 until somebody bumps him down. If Harper keeps up what he's doing or what he did 2 years ago, then yes, he would probably do it.

Just meant Altuve and Betts over Harper.

[Julio3000]

Harper on the way to being the best player in baseball 2 of the last 3 years?

Could be, but he's got to finish the season first. He beasted the first few weeks of last year, too.

[cajunrevenge]

If he doesn't run into his kryptonite aka walls.

[thethe]

Could be, but he's got to finish the season first. He beasted the first few weeks of last year, too.

Ageeed. He seems to have body issues where he's always hurt. Being healthy is definitely an ingredient to greatness.

[thewupk]

Harper on the way to being the best player in baseball 2 of the last 3 years?

I doubt it. But Mike Trout is on pace for his 5th 9+ WAR seasons in his first 6 years.

[Julio3000]

Harper is a tremendous talent, but there's already a guy wearing that crown.

[thewupk]

Heyward hitting 300 with a 117 wrc+ after 3 weeks.

[DirkPiggler]

Heyward hitting 300 with a 117 wrc+ after 3 weeks.

Someone must've jacked with the date settings on his iPhone.

[thethe]

I doubt it. But Mike Trout is on pace for his 5th 9+ WAR seasons in his first 6 years.

Trout holds the mantle now but if it continues then we have a discussion on our hands.

[chop2chip]

Heyward hitting 300 with a 117 wrc+ after 3 weeks.
Great to hear!

[thewupk]

Trout holds the mantle now but if it continues then we have a discussion on our hands.

Yes, if it continues. Which was my position in 2015 when you were bringing this up. 1 great year doesn't make you the best player in baseball. Harper had an insanely good 2015 and followed it up with a meh year as far as greatness is concerned. He's off to a really good start this year as well. However Trout has been doing what Harper did 2 years ago for his entire career. Trout has a real chance to be a top 5 player of all time.

[zbhargrove]

Trout holds the mantle now but if it continues then we have a discussion on our hands.

Didn't you say Harper holds the mantle before the beginning of last year before he tanked?

[thethe]

Didn't you say Harper holds the mantle before the beginning of last year before he tanked?

I did because I believe he is the most talented player. I still believe that. I just can't deny how good Trout has been anymore

[thewupk]

I did because I believe he is the most talented player. I still believe that. I just can't deny how good Trout has been anymore

Which is something you should of never done. Harper pretty much has to do what Trout had done up to that point for anyone to seriously have this conversation. Does Harper have insane amounts of talent? Yes. But you have to produce consistent results like Trout to be considered the best player in the game.

[thethe]

Which is something you should of never done. Harper pretty much has to do what Trout had done up to that point for anyone to seriously have this conversation. Does Harper have insane amounts of talent? Yes. But you have to produce consistent results like Trout to be considered the best player in the game.

Agreed. Still believe Harpers ceiling is higher than Trouts.

[NYCBrave]

Heyward hitting 300 with a 117 wrc+ after 3 weeks.

Unfortunately, that doesn't tell the whole story. His OPS is hovering right around .700. His walk rate is down (only 3 walks on the year). He's not hitting for ANY power! Coming into today, he had 1 HR and 1 3B. No doubles. His ISO has trended downward every single year since he hit 27 homers for us in 2012. Would love to see him bounce back and reach his potential, but doesn't seem to be happening.

[NYCBrave]

I did because I believe he is the most talented player. I still believe that. I just can't deny how good Trout has been anymore

I think the issue with Trout is he's been so good so young, I mean historically good, we almost take him for granted at this point. Plus he plays on the West Coast. If he was a Yankee or Red Sox, just imagine.

[thewupk]

Unfortunately, that doesn't tell the whole story. His OPS is hovering right around .700. His walk rate is down (only 3 walks on the year). He's not hitting for ANY power! Coming into today, he had 1 HR and 1 3B. No doubles. His ISO has trended downward every single year since he hit 27 homers for us in 2012. Would love to see him bounce back and reach his potential, but doesn't seem to be happening.

OPS is currently 787 but yes we are at the point in a season where one really good game can turn around seasonal stats. I pegged Heward as a 120 WRC+ hitter after hitting FA. Last year obviously sucked but I would not be shocked if he ends the year with a WRC+ around what it currently is. That plus his defense will bring another 5+ WAR season.

[thewupk]

Agreed. Still believe Harpers ceiling is higher than Trouts.

I just don't see Harpers ceiling as being the absolute best player ever.

[thethe]

I just don't see Harpers ceiling as being the absolute best player ever.

2015 was a glimpse into Harpers ceiling IMO. Has to come close to that again more though. Trout hasn't been there as a hitter at least.

[thewupk]

2015 was a glimpse into Harpers ceiling IMO. Has to come close to that again more though. Trout hasn't been there as a hitter at least.

As a hitter...maybe. I was talking about as an overall player.

[UNCBlue012]

I get the talent conversation, but anyone even comparing Trout and Harper needs to just stop. Trout has been incredible his whole career and is set up to be a HOF. Harper can be incredible, and I won't dispute the ceiling conversation, but the comparisons are so annoying. One is a perennial all star with little to no problems every single year while one is a really good, and young player, but has a lot of work to do to even compare.

[UNCBlue012]

That being said, I'd love to make a run at Harper once he's a FA. It won't do anything, but he's a great get for anyone. lol not saying he isn't an incredible player.

[BlackwaterPark]

For greediness reasons, I want Harper or Trout to become a Brave, and the other to end up in the NL East somewhere. Would then have 3 of the premier players in baseball with Stanton in the NL East

[cajunrevenge]

Harper 78 PA.393/.526/.836 7 homers 0 SB 250 RC+


Freeman 73 PA .400/.507/.850 7 homers 2 SB 251 RC+

[smootness]

For greediness reasons, I want Harper or Trout to become a Brave, and the other to end up in the NL East somewhere. Would then have 3 of the premier players in baseball with Stanton in the NL East

Heck no

[sturg33]

It's feared that Shelby Miller may need Tommy John surgery.

[Braves1976]

It's feared that Shelby Miller may need Tommy John surgery.

That would suck for Arizona and Shelby if so, hopefully not the case as I still like Shelby and Arizona has been through enough over the trade.

[Braves1976]

BTW, I was watching Houston a bit recently to see Mac and Gattis back together again. I noted that Houston isn't striking out at the high rate they have in the past, thanks early on mostly to Mac (9 BB's and only 5 SO's), Gattis (7 BB's and only 4 SO's) and Aoki (4 BB's and only 4 SO's). Gurriel has also only struck out 7 times, but isn't walking (1 BB thus far). Further, why it doesn't seem like much I do believe adding Mac and Aoki have given Houston's line-up more balance and along with Gattis so far they've solved Houston's past issue of striking out way too much. It's a much better balanced line-up now and it's showing in the numbers.

Houston may win that division this year if they figure out how to beat Texas.

[GovClintonTyree]

Harper 78 PA.393/.526/.836 7 homers 0 SB 250 RC+


Freeman 73 PA .400/.507/.850 7 homers 2 SB 251 RC+

Freddie gives us everything Bryce would, plus speed.

[sturg33]

BTW, I was watching Houston a bit recently to see Mac and Gattis back together again. I noted that Houston isn't striking out at the high rate they have in the past, thanks early on mostly to Mac (9 BB's and only 5 SO's), Gattis (7 BB's and only 4 SO's) and Aoki (4 BB's and only 4 SO's). Gurriel has also only struck out 7 times, but isn't walking (1 BB thus far). Further, why it doesn't seem like much I do believe adding Mac and Aoki have given Houston's line-up more balance and along with Gattis so far they've solved Houston's past issue of striking out way too much. It's a much better balanced line-up now and it's showing in the numbers.

Houston may win that division this year if they figure out how to beat Texas.

It seems the best teams in the league (Dodgers, Rockies, Astros, Cubs, Red Sox, Nats) all have an abundance of positional players

[chop2chip]

It seems the best teams in the league (Dodgers, Rockies, Astros, Cubs, Red Sox, Nats) all have an abundance of positional players
To be fair, it seems like those teams have an abundance of players, period.

Depth is underrated.

[msstate7]

Conforto was 3-3 against scherzer coming into 4th AB. Scherzer strikes him out and Jessica Mendoza says I think that was the best sequence of pitches vs conforto all night. Great observation, Jessica. Espn should add chip and just let her and chip have the premier MLB broadcast of the week

[Braves1976]

It seems the best teams in the league (Dodgers, Rockies, Astros, Cubs, Red Sox, Nats) all have an abundance of positional players

Yea, Houston has had Gattis to PH hit late and tie some games off the bench already. While we have Boni getting the most PH AB's from his weakest side (a side he's always sucked from too), lol. It's crazy our bench is so bad and so badly used with Boni on it that our AAA options look better than MLB options.

Gattis had PH hit sac-fly with one out in the 9th today too, tied that game at 4-4 and Houston won it in the tenth on Mac's RBI base hit.

[Millwood1Hitter]

Conforto was 3-3 against scherzer coming into 4th AB. Scherzer strikes him out and Jessica Mendoza says I think that was the best sequence of pitches vs conforto all night. Great observation, Jessica. Espn should add chip and just let her and chip have the premier MLB broadcast of the week

Add Fredi to the booth and you'd have an all star announcing team that compares to no one.

Chip (screaming as if it could win game 7 of the World Series: "SWUNG ON AND BELTED....DEEP FLY BALL...Pop up to second" (mind you it was the second inning...of a spring training game)

Mendoza:" If that ball was as long as it was high that would have been a homer and won the game, probably."

Fredi: "That's baseball. The pitcher pitches, the hitter hits, and the defensive player defends. Give credit to the second baseman for making a play. As a hitter you just tip your cap and go get them next time. As a pitcher next time you throw something up there and see what they got."

Joe: "Give him credit for making contact in that situation and not striking out but it still was an unproductive at bat. I thought he should have bunted even though there were two outs."

Chip: "Great points everyone. WHAT A GAME!"

Fredi: "As a hitter it's tough, you're the only one up there and it's you against 9 other guys."

Mendoza: "Yeah I know. In any other sport it's one on one."

[NYCBrave]

Jose Peraza in 74 AB's this year: 216/256/257 triple slash line. Pretty ugly.

[thewupk]

Jose Peraza in 74 AB's this year: 216/256/257 triple slash line. Pretty ugly.

Atleast his slugging is still higher than his obp

[thewupk]

Heyward with another homer tonight. Up to 16 RBI on the year. Some players just know how to produce.

[UNCBlue012]

Heyward with another homer tonight. Up to 16 RBI on the year. Some players just know how to produce.

I only want Heyward to be successful, I loved having the guy, but his issue has been producing... it has been since he had 27 homers, 82 RBI's and a whopping 97 runs in 2012.

Great start for him, though.

[thewupk]

According to Statcast™, the exit velocity was 105 mph. His other two homers this season registered at 106.8 mph and 104.6 mph. All three were harder hit than any of the seven home runs Heyward hit in 2016. The maximum last year was 102.9 mph.

His avg exit velocity this year is 91.8 so far. Last year he averaged 87.4

[nsacpi]

It seems the best teams in the league (Dodgers, Rockies, Astros, Cubs, Red Sox, Nats) all have an abundance of positional players

We are well positioned to beat them with our surplus of pitchers. No one has the kind of surplus we have.

[bravesfanMatt]

We are well positioned to beat them with our surplus of pitchers. No one has the kind of surplus we have.

So you are now promoted to GM.. what would you do from here on out. This might be a better as a new thread. I am not being snarky. I am wondering what direction people would take at this point. We can't go back and undo anything.. only going forward.

[Southcack77]

It seems the best teams in the league (Dodgers, Rockies, Astros, Cubs, Red Sox, Nats) all have an abundance of positional players

That's weird.

[nsacpi]

So you are now promoted to GM.. what would you do from here on out. This might be a better as a new thread. I am not being snarky. I am wondering what direction people would take at this point. We can't go back and undo anything.. only going forward.

Good topic for another thread. But I think I've already offered a thought or two in various places.

[GovClintonTyree]

According to Statcast™, the exit velocity was 105 mph. His other two homers this season registered at 106.8 mph and 104.6 mph. All three were harder hit than any of the seven home runs Heyward hit in 2016. The maximum last year was 102.9 mph.

His avg exit velocity this year is 91.8 so far. Last year he averaged 87.4

Good info. I saw him in ST and was worried he was still going out and around. Is this broadly available or are they still kind of dripping it out?

[Julio3000]

Good info. I saw him in ST and was worried he was still going out and around. Is this broadly available or are they still kind of dripping it out?

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_leaderboard

Has a searchable db.

[smootness]

Jose Peraza in 74 AB's this year: 216/256/257 triple slash line. Pretty ugly.

But he hit .324 in the majors last year!!!!!1!

[GovClintonTyree]

We are well positioned to beat them with our surplus of pitchers. No one has the kind of surplus we have.

Possibly true, but as I recall, you spent significant time the last couple years questioning the Braves' accrual of pitching when position players were more valuable, less fungible, more scarce. Does this represent a shift in your thinking?

I was thinking well, for the time being it's true, but the pendulum swings, and pitching is what we (as an organization) do best. And at some point, when you are trying to figure out a nine-man rotation, you deal pitching for hitting.

[nsacpi]

Possibly true, but as I recall, you spent significant time the last couple years questioning the Braves' accrual of pitching when position players were more valuable, less fungible, more scarce. Does this represent a shift in your thinking?

I was thinking well, for the time being it's true, but the pendulum swings, and pitching is what we (as an organization) do best. And at some point, when you are trying to figure out a nine-man rotation, you deal pitching for hitting.no shift in my thinking...just being snarky

[nsacpi]

But he hit .324 in the majors last year!!!!!1!

happens...see Swansong

[GovClintonTyree]

no shift in my thinking...just being snarky

Oh. You didn't change fonts.

[Enscheff]

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_leaderboard

Has a searchable db.

Is there a way to get data for individual plays that I'm just not seeing?

[thewupk]

Good info. I saw him in ST and was worried he was still going out and around. Is this broadly available or are they still kind of dripping it out?

They have a lot of data now and it seems to be pretty instant on baseball savant. The regular statcast leaderboard on mlb.com which I used seems to be lagging a bit behind on data.

The homer last night was pretty encouraging for him. 95 MPH fastball belt high away and he stroked it for a line drive homer to right center. Don't think there is any way he could of done that last year.

[thewupk]

Is there a way to get data for individual plays that I'm just not seeing?

click on the players name and it drops down a list of each event with the relevant info.

[Enscheff]

Possibly true, but as I recall, you spent significant time the last couple years questioning the Braves' accrual of pitching when position players were more valuable, less fungible, more scarce. Does this represent a shift in your thinking?

I was thinking well, for the time being it's true, but the pendulum swings, and pitching is what we (as an organization) do best. And at some point, when you are trying to figure out a nine-man rotation, you deal pitching for hitting.

This is such a stupid myth that persists despite all facts to the contrary.

The Braves are no better at producing MLB pitching than most other organizations. The only good pitcher they have produced with long term success over the last 10 years has been Teheran. They have also shown a clear ability to produce MLB positional talent...probably even more so than pitching talent.

Just because the Braves ended up with 3 HOFers in the rotation for a decade doesn't make them a pitcher factory 2 decades later.

The "Braves Way" has been attempted again by the Mets, who are seeing exactly why it is folly to dump resources into pitching only to watch it get hurt.

[Enscheff]

click on the players name and it drops down a list of each event with the relevant info.

Awesome. Do they have similar data for defensive plays? Is there an API that lets us interface with the service/database?

[thewupk]

Awesome. Do they have similar data for defensive plays? Is there an API that lets us interface with the service/database?

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catch_probability_leaderboard?min=0&year=2017

2017 catch probability data. Not sure how up to date that is. Also not sure about a public API. That would be pretty cool though.

[Enscheff]

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catch_probability_leaderboard?min=0&year=2017

2017 catch probability data. Not sure how up to date that is. Also not sure about a public API. That would be pretty cool though.

Ah yes, I was talking about the data they used to calculate the stars, or at least which play corresponds to each chance.

I read an article about how bad Matt Adams has been in LF so far, and they linked video to plays he didn't make. To the naked eye, they looked like plays that were hard or impossible for anyone to make, but I wanted to see the data behind those particular plays to judge my "eye test".

The author said something along the lines of, "7 of his chances were balls any OFer would have caught according to StatCast". So where did he get this play-specific statcast data?

[thewupk]

Ah yes, I was talking about the data they used to calculate the stars, or at least which play corresponds to each chance.

I read an article about how bad Matt Adams has been in LF so far, and they linked video to plays he didn't make. To the naked eye, they looked like plays that were hard or impossible for anyone to make, but I wanted to see the data behind those particular plays to judge my "eye test".

The author said something along the lines of, "7 of his chances were balls any OFer would have caught according to StatCast". So where did he get this play-specific statcast data?

Yeah I would like that to be publicly available. In due time hopefully.

[GovClintonTyree]

This is such a stupid myth that persists despite all facts to the contrary.

The Braves are no better at producing MLB pitching than most other organizations. The only good pitcher they have produced with long term success over the last 10 years has been Teheran. They have also shown a clear ability to produce MLB positional talent...probably even more so than pitching talent.

Just because the Braves ended up with 3 HOFers in the rotation for a decade doesn't make them a pitcher factory 2 decades later.

The "Braves Way" has been attempted again by the Mets, who are seeing exactly why it is folly to dump resources into pitching only to watch it get hurt.

Disagree with your characterization of the Braves not being pitching-centric. Even if I were incorrect, it hardly makes my comment stupid.

It looks like you shifted arguments mid-slam, anyway. First you argued that it was stupid to suggest the Braves are pitching-centric, then you argued they are stupid for being pitching-centric. Can't be both, that's a logical fallacy.

[GovClintonTyree]

Thanks, I appreciate the info.

[msstate7]

Alex wood with no hitter thru 5 with 5 Ks... season ERA is 2.41

[thewupk]

Alex wood with no hitter thru 5 with 5 Ks... season ERA is 2.41

He'll get hurt soon so it makes that trade ok

[msstate7]

Tebow = .246/.310/.415

A .725 ops isn't bad and pretty impressive to me. In his last 10 games, he's hitting .314 and only K'd 7 times in 37 PAs. He's holding his own

[UNCBlue012]

I think I miss Alex more than anyone else we let go of -- yes, even Simmons. It's undeniably that he'd be a huge help to our rotation and could be moving forward. Such a dumbass trade.

[bravesfanMatt]

So how did Alex finish. I tried to watch sports center but espn was just dead air. Not sure what happpened.

[msstate7]

So how did Alex finish. I tried to watch sports center but espn was just dead air. Not sure what happpened.

6.0 ip 1 h 0 er 1 bb 5 k

[bravesfanMatt]

6.0 ip 1 h 0 er 1 bb 5 k

Do we have any old Cubans and a broken reliever we could trade for that.

[Southcack77]

He'll get hurt soon so it makes that trade ok

His first good start of the season. Somehow we missed hearing about his giving up 4 runs in 4 innings or walking five in three innings in his previous starts.

A lot of you stats boys love to argue an anecdote.

[msstate7]

His first good start of the season. Somehow we missed hearing about his giving up 4 runs in 4 innings or walking five in three innings in his previous starts.

A lot of you stats boys love to argue an anecdote.

I'm not crying about it either way, but him being on a good MLB team's roster shows who won the trade

[thewupk]

His first good start of the season. Somehow we missed hearing about his giving up 4 runs in 4 innings or walking five in three innings in his previous starts.

A lot of you stats boys love to argue an anecdote.

He has a 2.89 FIP after 19 2/3 innings this year. Better than anything a Braves starter has done. This is also after a 3.18 FIP last year before getting hurt. A mark better than any Braves starter. He also had a career 3.32 FIP in case you were wondering those numbers were somehow flukes.

Wood has a lot of talent. His issue is consistently going deep into games. It's what keeps him back as a mid rotation starter. Still a nice piece to have which the Braves grossly undervalued.

[bravesfanMatt]

6.0 ip 1 h 0 er 1 bb 5 k


I'm not crying about it either way, but him being on a good MLB team's roster shows who won the trade

That was never in question.

[thewupk]

So how did Alex finish. I tried to watch sports center but espn was just dead air. Not sure what happpened.

They fired the guys responsible for that too

[thethe]

Is Bryce the greatest April baseball player of all time?

[thewupk]

Is Bryce the greatest April baseball player of all time?

no

[thethe]

no
Has someone been better?

[thewupk]

Has someone been better?

Not sure. Without looking I would guess Bonds, Ruth, and Williams. Three best hitters ever have a good shot for best April hitter.

[thethe]

Not sure. Without looking I would guess Bonds, Ruth, and Williams. Three best hitters ever have a good shot for best April hitter.

182 wrc+ is pretty good.

[thethe]

Bonds with over a 230 wrc+. His stats are just silly.

[thewupk]

182 wrc+ is pretty good.

Indeed. Sadly I don't think fangraphs has splits prior to 2002.

[sturg33]

Wood is good.

[sturg33]

182 wrc+ is pretty good.

Basically Mike trout's seasonal average - just slightly above

[thewupk]

Fun Fact. Ted Williams only had a sub 1000 OPS one time in his career. 1959 when he was 40 years old. Also missed 3 years of his prime due to the war. IMO he's the best hitter ever.

[thethe]

Basically Mike trout's seasonal average - just slightly above

10 points or more is more than just slightly.even still...trout's an all time great.

But when it's all said and done I still believe harper will be considered a better player. But that argument won't be settled for another 10 years.

[thethe]

Fun Fact. Ted Williams only had a sub 1000 OPS one time in his career. 1959 when he was 40 years old. Also missed 3 years of his prime due to the war. IMO he's the best hitter ever.

Williams wasade for Yankee Stadium and Dimaggio was made for fenway. Ironic.

[thethe]

Indeed. Sadly I don't think fangraphs has splits prior to 2002.

That makes sense. Wondering how bonds had that average. Those were the height of his steroid years.

[smootness]

It would take a long time of sustained incredible play for Harper to pass Trout, assuming Trout continues what he has been doing for at least another 3-4 years.

That said, Harper does have the talent to do that. Will still be extremely tough, though.

[thewupk]

10 points or more is more than just slightly.even still...trout's an all time great.

But when it's all said and done I still believe harper will be considered a better player. But that argument won't be settled for another 10 years.

Harper has a lot of ground to make up for that to happen. Through age 23 Harper had 23 WAR. That's really good and a HOF trajectory. Trout was at 38.4 and that's GOAT level.

[thewupk]

That makes sense. Wondering how bonds had that average. Those were the height of his steroid years.

Indeed. Steroid Bonds is the best hitter we've seen but sadly he's tainted. Still top 5 player ever without it imo.

[thethe]

Harper has a lot of ground to make up for that to happen. Through age 23 Harper had 23 WAR. That's really good and a HOF trajectory. Trout was at 38.4 and that's GOAT level.

From a straight WAR perspective its going to take a lot of time and may never happen. Trout just a better defender. I still believe that Harper can take his hitting to a whole other level than Trout is able to.

[thewupk]

From a straight WAR perspective its going to take a lot of time and may never happen. Trout just a better defender. I still believe that Harper can take his hitting to a whole other level than Trout is able to.

Well a straight WAR perspective is the best route if we are talking about best player. As far as hitting goes. Basically you are arguing that Harper gets to the Ruth, Williams, and steroids Bonds level offensively.

Right now Trout is 7th all-time in career WRC+ at 169. The 4 guys above him who are at his level are Gehrig, Hornsby, Bonds, and Mantle with only a 4 point gap between all of them. Then you get to Williams at 188 and Ruth at 197.

So while I guess it is within the realm of possibility that Harper turns into one of the top 4 hitters ever I just don't see it happening.

[thethe]

Well a straight WAR perspective is the best route if we are talking about best player. As far as hitting goes. Basically you are arguing that Harper gets to the Ruth, Williams, and steroids Bonds level offensively.

Right now Trout is 7th all-time in career WRC+ at 169. The 4 guys above him who are at his level are Gehrig, Hornsby, Bonds, and Mantle with only a 4 point gap between all of them. Then you get to Williams at 188 and Ruth at 197.

So while I guess it is within the realm of possibility that Harper turns into one of the top 4 hitters ever I just don't see it happening.

Many have expressed concerns regarding the accuracy of dWAR. That's why I prefer to just isolate hitting.

[thewupk]

Many have expressed concerns regarding the accuracy of dWAR. That's why I prefer to just isolate hitting.

That's fine. But I would also direct you to career WAR leaderboards and tell me if you think they are off. They get it right imo. Also I think you overestimate Trout's defensive ability. He's an above average to average CF which is obviously good but it's not like he gets Heyward numbers out there.


From a pure hitting aspect Trout out paces Harper in career WAR 28.8 to 14. Include base running and it goes from 33.2 to 15. Trout is the GOAT. IMO we are watching the best player of all-time.

[thethe]

That's fine. But I would also direct you to career WAR leaderboards and tell me if you think they are off. They get it right imo. Also I think you overestimate Trout's defensive ability. He's an above average to average CF which is obviously good but it's not like he gets Heyward numbers out there.


From a pure hitting aspect Trout out paces Harper in career WAR 28.8 to 14. Include base running and it goes from 33.2 to 15. Trout is the GOAT. IMO we are watching the best player of all-time.

Thus far in their careers trout has the clear edge. Trout is an amazing player. I'm not trying to disparage him. It's about who I think has the most hitting talent.

[thewupk]

Thus far in their careers trout has the clear edge. Trout is an amazing player. I'm not trying to disparage him. It's about who I think has the most hitting talent.

That's fine. But again you are arguing that Harper joins the Ruth, Williams, and steroids Bonds hitting level. I don't think that's possible let alone likely.

[sturg33]

From a pure hitting aspect Trout out paces Harper in career WAR 28.8 to 14. Include base running and it goes from 33.2 to 15. Trout is the GOAT. IMO we are watching the best player of all-time.

So he's literally been twice the offensive player as Harper... wow

[smootness]

That's fine. But again you are arguing that Harper joins the Ruth, Williams, and steroids Bonds hitting level. I don't think that's possible let alone likely.

Oh, I think that's absolutely possible. Certainly not likely in the sense that it's not likely for anyone to get there, but I'm not sure why you think it isn't possible. Anyone who has OPS'd at 1.100 as a 22-year-old can get there. All he would have to do is sustain the kind of year he had then. Again, very unlikely, but possible.

And this is assuming we're talking non-roids'ing Bonds. No one is ever getting there again. That was stupid.

[thewupk]

So he's literally been twice the offensive player as Harper... wow

He does basically have a full season worth of PA's on him because of time that Harper missed but yeah. Also half of that 14 hitting WAR came in 2015. Trout has been as consistent as you can get. To me that is the biggest thing.

[smootness]

GOAT in baseball is so tough. Bonds is it, but he's disqualified, IMO. Then Ruth is it, but it's tough to say that a guy who played in the 20's without anybody but white Americans is the GOAT. Then Ted Williams is it, especially when you consider that he lost 3 of what would have surely been his best years. But you also have Mays, who combined great (if not quite as great) offense with far better defense than anybody else in the discussion. Hank Aaron always gets overlooked to some degree in the discussion, and he's not the GOAT, but he at least deserves some notice for his longevity and sustained excellence.

And then you have all the pitchers.

It's hard for me to say that Trout looks like he will be the best ever. His instant jump to all-time great at age 20 was incredible, and his consistency has been remarkable. But will he have the peak that some others did? And how long will he sustain it? It's hard to say. But my ranking would probably go something like this:

1. Willie Mays
2. Ted Williams
3. Babe Ruth
4. Ty Cobb
5. Barry Bonds (without roids)

with Aaron, Gehrig, Hornsby, and Musial just missing.

If Trout continues this level through age 29-30 and then continues playing good baseball for another 5 years or so after that, he will begin to enter that top 5 territory.

[thewupk]

Oh, I think that's absolutely possible. Certainly not likely in the sense that it's not likely for anyone to get there, but I'm not sure why you think it isn't possible. Anyone who has OPS'd at 1.100 as a 22-year-old can get there. All he would have to do is sustain the kind of year he had then. Again, very unlikely, but possible.

And this is assuming we're talking non-roids'ing Bonds. No one is ever getting there again. That was stupid.

I mean if you want to say it's possible then sure. Maybe like a 1% chance it happens. Harpers 2015 was an all-time great season. Only 3 timesin the history of baseball as a hitter age 22 or younger put up an 1100+ OPS and only twice since 1900. The other guy was someone named Ted Williams. But considering in the grand history of the game there have been only 2 hitters to sustain that type of offensive ability for an entire career I am going to go out on a limb and say Harper won't be the 3rd.

[thewupk]

GOAT in baseball is so tough. Bonds is it, but he's disqualified, IMO. Then Ruth is it, but it's tough to say that a guy who played in the 20's without anybody but white Americans is the GOAT. Then Ted Williams is it, especially when you consider that he lost 3 of what would have surely been his best years. But you also have Mays, who combined great (if not quite as great) offense with far better defense than anybody else in the discussion. Hank Aaron always gets overlooked to some degree in the discussion, and he's not the GOAT, but he at least deserves some notice for his longevity and sustained excellence.

And then you have all the pitchers.

It's hard for me to say that Trout looks like he will be the best ever. His instant jump to all-time great at age 20 was incredible, and his consistency has been remarkable. But will he have the peak that some others did? And how long will he sustain it? It's hard to say. But my ranking would probably go something like this:

1. Willie Mays
2. Ted Williams
3. Babe Ruth
4. Ty Cobb
5. Barry Bonds (without roids)

with Aaron, Gehrig, Hornsby, and Musial just missing.

If Trout continues this level through age 29-30 and then continues playing good baseball for another 5 years or so after that, he will begin to enter that top 5 territory.

For position players I would agree with the names but not the order. But that doesn't really matter. And you are right that GOAT is tough. We've had 2 somewhat recent examples of hitters beasting once they get to the majors but only to falter (from previous levels) once they get to their 30's in Thomas and Pujols. Through age 29 Thomas has the 5th best WRC+ and Pujols the 9th. So yeah it's hard to maintain that level for a whole career.

Will Trout be that guy? Hard to say. What gives me hope for Trout is that he is more Mays like than Pujols or Thomas. Trout is an amazingly good baserunner and can hold his own defensively at an up the middle position. It's a skills combination that rarely happens.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Never wish injury on someone but looks like Adam Eaton may have broken his ankle... looks like he rolled it going through first base trying to beat out a hit. Had to be carried off the field by the trainers

[bravesfanMatt]

Never wish injury on someone but looks like Adam Eaton may have broken his ankle... looks like he rolled it going through first base trying to beat out a hit. Had to be carried off the field by the trainers

That sucks

[thewupk]

That sucks

For gilesfan

[NYCBrave]

Wondering if the NL is more wide open than it's been in previous years. I know it's still very early, but the traditional playoff teams like the Dodgers, Cardinals, Mets, Giants, etc haven't really looked all that great. Might be shaping up to be the type of year you have a better chance of sneaking into a wild card spot and then anything can happen.

[sturg33]

I think it still comes down to Nats, Cubs, Dodgers

[The Chosen One]

I think it still comes down to Nats, Cubs, Dodgers

Dont rule out the Fighting Kemps yet. The Protectors.

[sturg33]

Dont rule out the Fighting Kemps yet. The Protectors.

LOL my new fantasy baseball team name

[NYCBrave]

I think it still comes down to Nats, Cubs, Dodgers

Definitely. But it certainly seems like those 2 wild card spots are open for the taking.

[bravesfanMatt]

Dont rule out the Fighting Kemps yet. The Protectors.

We picked up a game on everybody in front of us.

[UNCBlue012]

Shelby Miller to undergo Tommy John surgery. I cannot believe how great that trade turned out to be. (Not that it was bad beforehand)

[thewupk]

Shelby Miller to undergo Tommy John surgery. I cannot believe how great that trade turned out to be. (Not that it was bad beforehand)

gottem

[thewupk]

Definitely. But it certainly seems like those 2 wild card spots are open for the taking.

I'd agree with this.

[striker42]

Easton out for the year with a torn ACL. Huge blow for the Nats.

[NYCBrave]

Shelby Miller to undergo Tommy John surgery. I cannot believe how great that trade turned out to be. (Not that it was bad beforehand)

Just goes to show the huge risk you take with pitchers. That is unless he possibly originally suffered the injury last year during his horrendous year, using poor mechanics trying to fix his issues.

[bravesfanMatt]

We picked up a game on everybody in front of us.

Fallies collapse and we pick up another game on everyone ahead of us.

[bravesfanMatt]

We do need to respect the genius of the white sox. Trade your talent and lead your division. Hottest team in baseball. GENIUS!!!

[thethe]

We do need to respect the genius of the white sox. Trade your talent and lead your division. Hottest team in baseball. GENIUS!!!

Massive mis-read of the team. You add Sale and Eaton to that team and you might have a world series contender.

[nsacpi]

Massive mis-read of the team. You add Sale and Eaton to that team and you might have a world series contender.

Team ERA 2.96 x-FIP 4.26

we'll see how that sorts itself out

Additional point: regardless of where the White Sox were on the expected win curve at the end of last season, the returns on Eaton and Sale easily justified both trades

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Team ERA 2.96 x-FIP 4.26

we'll see how that sorts itself out

Additional point: regardless of where the White Sox were on the expected win curve at the end of last season, the returns on Eaton and Sale easily justified both trades
Also, Eaton is out for the year, so even if you're using current situation info, the White Sox may be better off (Sale would obviously help though, especially if he wasn't a locker room cancer).

[thethe]

Team ERA 2.96 x-FIP 4.26

we'll see how that sorts itself out

Additional point: regardless of where the White Sox were on the expected win curve at the end of last season, the returns on Eaton and Sale easily justified both trades

The returns were great but the point of all of this is to win a world series and the White may have massively underperformed in the past. If they end up being a mid to upper 80 win team (unlikely) then Sales and Eaton could have put them over the top.

[thethe]

Also, Eaton is out for the year, so even if you're using current situation info, the White Sox may be better off (Sale would obviously help though, especially if he wasn't a locker room cancer).

Can't use Eatons injury. It's more likely than not he doesn't get hurt if still on the sox.

[nsacpi]

The returns were great but the point of all of this is to win a world series and the White may have massively underperformed in the past. If they end up being a mid to upper 80 win team (unlikely) then Sales and Eaton could have put them over the top.

GMs have to operate in the realm of probabilities not possibilities. While anything is possible, I think any assessment of the White Sox at the end of last season would not find that they were likely WS contenders. They finished 78-84. Their record was consistent with their runs scored and runs scored against data.

Plus even if you believe that there was no compelling case for a rebuild, the trades they made for Sale and Easton looked at in isolation were very good trades.

Imo their chances of winning a WS at some point has increased quite a bit after those trades.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Can't use Eatons injury. It's more likely than not he doesn't get hurt if still on the sox.

If you can't use Eaton's injury, then I wouldn't use the season to date records either as they might have been worse by luck if they were still on the Sox (despite having better players). Look at our record without KeMVP, for example.

Plus, a lot if good teams have done bad so far and vice versa, so I doubt the Sox run continues

[Southcack77]

GMs have to operate in the realm of probabilities not possibilities. While anything is possible, I think any assessment of the White Sox at the end of last season would not find that they were likely WS contenders. They finished 78-84. Their record was consistent with their runs scored and runs scored against data.

Plus even if you believe that there was no compelling case for a rebuild, the trades they made for Sale and Easton looked at in isolation were very good trades.

Imo their chances of winning a WS at some point has increased quite a bit after those trades.

I mean I guess. But they traded major league assets on good long term contracts for players that they hope will eventually become major league assets on good contracts. One wonders whether they might have been able to reform their roster around their young assets rather than blowing it up.

But sure, they got a good return out of their valuable assets.

[bravesfanMatt]

I mean I guess. But they traded major league assets on good long term contracts for players that they hope will eventually become major league assets on good contracts. One wonders whether they might have been able to reform their roster around their young assets rather than blowing it up.

But sure, they got a good return out of their valuable assets.

Small sample size says they are missing on most of them.

[Southcack77]

Small sample size says they are missing on most of them.

Well, somehow I'm guessing the folks who have killed the Braves in comparison on trades with a healthy serving of hindsight won't be issuing retractions later if called for.

[JusticeForAll23]

Nats runs scored last six games:

15
11
16
7
5
22 (and counting)

That's 76 runs in their last six games, which comes to 12.7 runs per game.

Yikes.

[cajunrevenge]

Rendon 6 for 6 with 3 home runs 5 runs scored 10 RBI. The most effective pitcher the mets had all day was a catcher giving up 4 runs in 2 innings.

[CyYoung31]

Damn. Did we trade Kemp to the Nats?

[thewupk]

Damn. Did we trade Kemp to the Nats?

His protection is far reaching.

[CyYoung31]

His protection is far reaching.

He should have his own line of condoms.

[msstate7]

Rendon 6 for 6 with 3 home runs 5 runs scored 10 RBI. The most effective pitcher the mets had all day was a catcher giving up 4 runs in 2 innings.

Syndergaard screwed the mets today. He acted healthy when really hurt... he came out after 1.1 and mets probably just threw their worst

[Tapate50]

Salty released after a 16k in 25 Ab start allowing 9/9 base stealers to take a base.


Oof.

[thewupk]

Figured this would be the best place to put this

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/harveys-struggles-continue/


Harvey is emblematic of a larger issue and that is keeping young, talented arms on the field and productive.

The Mets and their fanbase are all well aware of the risk inherent in building around young arms. Queens was the home of the group dubbed Generation K. And a generation later, Mets nation is hoping for much better fortune.

The Braves in 5 years.

[bravesnumberone]

So Sam Holbrook still sucks at his job.

[CyYoung31]

Cardinals fan sitting behind dugout hit with stray bullet (http://deadspin.com/cardinals-fan-sitting-behind-dugout-hit-by-stray-bullet-1794903270)