Game Thread: 4/9

[mqt]

Greetings from PNC Park! Let's go Braves!

[msstate7]

Swanson gonna have a big day. Braves salvage 1

[nsacpi]

expecting a huge game from Peterson

[mqt]

Dansby smacks one out!

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

So does Freddie have our first steal? That's pretty surprising.

And we were afraid to steal against d'Arnaud

[cajunrevenge]

Crooked numbers!

[thethe]

What a difference it makes when freeman gets on base!

[Julio3000]

Nick seems to have shaken off whatever was afflicting him in the first couple of games.

[Julio3000]

So does Freddie have our first steal? That's pretty surprising.

And we were afraid to steal against d'Arnaud

Phillips has one, IIRC.

[Julio3000]

JT always gets the bunt down.

[thethe]

Anytime ender wants to show up that would be great.

[striker42]

Is that curve of Julio's something new?

[Julio3000]

Is that curve of Julio's something new?

No, but it seems like he's using it a bit more.

[striker42]

No, but it seems like he's using it a bit more.

I like it.

[Julio3000]

This is totally anecdotal, but it seems like maybe he uses the curve or the change as an off speed depending on which one he has a better feel for. I wonder if he'll start throwing more changeups second/third time through the lineup.

[nsacpi]

Last year he leaned on the slider more. He's got a deep repetoire.

[Julio3000]

I like it.

Commanding 4 pitches and being able to locate his fb seems to allow him to live without the extra velocity.

[striker42]

Freeman is Manbearpig

[mqt]

Hey, it's our old friend Phil.

[Julio3000]

JT through 3 with 43 pitches, 30 for strikes.

[msstate7]

Flowers is really bad at throwing the ball

[striker42]

What is happening to our defense?

[sturg33]

Defense has been dreadful. A sure out ends in a man on second

[Garmel]

Two chances to get Marte and we screw it up. Unbelievable.

[msstate7]

What is happening to our defense?

Missing KEMvP

[4maddux_cy's]

I know that throw was wide but Freddie usually comes up with that. He did the same thing on the throw from Adonis yesterday.

[striker42]

I know that throw was wide but Freddie usually comes up with that. He did the same thing on the throw from Adonis yesterday.

Took his eye off of it is all I can think.

[nsacpi]

nice play by swanson

[4maddux_cy's]

What a play by Dansby.

[Enscheff]

Simpson with his daily display of a complete lack of understanding of baseball. He can't quite wrap his head around why Marte was credited with a CS...doesn't see how it's the same as a hitter being 0-1 when getting on base via error.

[sturg33]

Looked like Dansby did a little showmanship on that diving catch... maybe he is more like Jeter than we thought

[sturg33]

Freeman error costs us a run... inning not over.

But remember kids, defense doesn't matter

[Enscheff]

Looked like Dansby did a little showmanship on that diving catch... maybe he is more like Jeter than we thought

What the hell is wrong with diving AFTER you make a catch??

[sturg33]

Simpson with his daily display of a complete lack of understanding of baseball. He can't quite wrap his head around why Marte was credited with a CS...doesn't see how it's the same as a hitter being 0-1 when getting on base via error.

I'm a bit surprised with the ruling... seems like it would fall under the "you can't assume a double play" type of rule.

[sturg33]

Freeman error costs two runs. Man on second

[striker42]

The crazy thing is we're seeing sloppy, poor fundamental play from guys who are usually solid defenders.

[sturg33]

The crazy thing is we're seeing sloppy, poor fundamental play from guys who are usually solid defenders.

It's weird bc we finished so strong to end 2016

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

What a disaster. 1B defense is supposed to be invisible

[Enscheff]

Flowers should have fielded that throw behind the plate to avoid the short hop haha

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Flowers should have fielded that throw behind the plate to avoid the short hop haha

I actually moderately agree. Don't change what you did for 10 years based on one play.

[bravesfanMatt]

Triple away guys.

[sturg33]

OK Freddie... do that 35 more times and we can live with the occasional dropped throw to first

[thethe]

Welcome to the season freddie. Now we just need Kemp back and we will be cranking.

[mqt]

Freddie bomb:

851149856471175168

[cajunrevenge]

Kemp doing a hell of a job protecting Freddie in the lineup tonight.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Kemp doing a hell of a job protecting Freddie in the lineup tonight.
KeMVP

On a side note, this may be the only game we catch two guys stealing all year.

[USMA76]

The CS of Frazier reminds me of an early scene in the movie, "Major League."

[msstate7]

The CS of Frazier reminds me of an early scene in the movie, "Major League."

Frazier learned that slick baserunning at miss state. We still getting thrown out/picked off with regularity

[msstate7]

Check out Matt withrow in Mississippi

[nsacpi]

Peterson having a yuge game

[msstate7]

Peterson having a yuge game

After triple last night

[msstate7]

Inciarte is abysmal right now

[Garmel]

Inciarte not producing with men on base today.

[sturg33]

Ender looks awful

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Would have been ok with Bonifacio pinch running at third there for Flowers for Julio's at bat.

Guess we're saving him for his dynamic pinch hitting.

[sturg33]

My ideal lineup if anyone were to care

1. Dansby
2. Markakis
3. Kemp
4. Freeman
5. Phillips
6. Garcia
7. Flowers
8. Pitcher
9. Inciarte

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

My ideal lineup if anyone were to care

1. Dansby
2. Markakis
3. Kemp
4. Freeman
5. Phillips
6. Garcia
7. Flowers
8. Pitcher
9. Inciarte

Second half switch Inciarte to top.

Also, make that 3 CS.

[sturg33]

Julio's pickoff is unreal

[Enscheff]

Aaaaaand now Simpson is saying Cutch is a good CFer and former GGer.

[thewupk]

Julio's pickoff is unreal

Best since Pettite imo

[msstate7]

FF getting hot. Hope kemp is still hot when he returns

[thewupk]

Aaaaaand now Simpson is saying Cutch is a good CFer and former GGer.

one of those is true

[mqt]

851156921541382146

[Enscheff]

My ideal lineup if anyone were to care

1. Dansby
2. Markakis
3. Kemp
4. Freeman
5. Phillips
6. Garcia
7. Flowers
8. Pitcher
9. Inciarte

Right now it doesn't really matter. There aren't enough good hitters on the roster to make a decent lineup no matter what.

Given that is the case, I would rather see guys bat where they will be batting 1-2 years from now when the Braves might actually be good.

Swasnon will be bating 2nd, Freeman 3rd, Inciarte in the bottom 3rd. Albies will be batting 1 if this offense is ever going to be good, so just stick someone there to hold the place for now.

Markakis/4th OFer they don't have
Swanson
Freeman
Kemp
Phillips
Garcia
Flowers
Pitcher
Inciarte

[bravesfanMatt]

FF should have asked to stop at 3rd for the cycle

[thewupk]

If only Freeman was this hot for our other 5 games. We might be 6-0.

[sturg33]

OK Freddie I forgive you for the dropped pickoff

[50PoundHead]

Freddie got both of the runs he gave up back. Hoo-rah. Man, this team is so terrible defensively.

[USMA76]

FF getting hot. Hope kemp is still hot when he returns

Kemp hasn't been giving Freddie a lot of protection in this series.

[50PoundHead]

Julio's given 7 better-than-solid innings. Pull or not? I say yes, but I fear Snitker may go the other direction.

[sturg33]

Bored so just looking up some statistics.

We all know Ender is amazing defensively. In his first three years he's averaged 14.6 fangraphs defensive score, with a high of 19 in his rookie year. Very impressive.

I then looked up Kevin Kaiermaier... who has averaged 20.43 fangraphs defensive score, but that may be distorted with a ridiculous 32 in 2015

Ok... so I look up Andruw Jones:

In his first three years, he averages 33.56 fangraphs defensive score, with a high of 38.5 in his third year.

Andruw would continue to go on to be amazing, with never putting up a defensive score lower than Ender's 2016 season until he left Atlanta to go to the Dodgers.

In his Braves playing days, Andruw averaged a year defensive score of 26.4 per season. Simply incredible.

[keithlaw]

851156921541382146

Not bad for a guy with average power

[nsacpi]

quality start by Julion...perhaps time to trade him

[thethe]

If only Freeman was this hot for our other 5 games. We might be 6-0.

At least have another win or two thats for sure. Glad Freeman is showing why I said what I said.

Now we just need to get Kemp back int he lineup and all of a sudden the people pumping their chest will be a bit more quiet.

[sturg33]

At least have another win or two thats for sure. Glad Freeman is showing why I said what I said.

Now we just need to get Kemp back int he lineup and all of a sudden the people pumping their chest will be a bit more quiet.

Are you suggesting there are people who don't want the Braves to do well?

[msstate7]

Are you suggesting there are people who don't want the Braves to do well?
Certainly seems that way

[thewupk]

At least have another win or two thats for sure. Glad Freeman is showing why I said what I said.

Now we just need to get Kemp back int he lineup and all of a sudden the people pumping their chest will be a bit more quiet.

Except opening day when he had a great day yet still lost.

[thewupk]

Bored so just looking up some statistics.

We all know Ender is amazing defensively. In his first three years he's averaged 14.6 fangraphs defensive score, with a high of 19 in his rookie year. Very impressive.

I then looked up Kevin Kaiermaier... who has averaged 20.43 fangraphs defensive score, but that may be distorted with a ridiculous 32 in 2015

Ok... so I look up Andruw Jones:

In his first three years, he averages 33.56 fangraphs defensive score, with a high of 38.5 in his third year.

Andruw would continue to go on to be amazing, with never putting up a defensive score lower than Ender's 2016 season until he left Atlanta to go to the Dodgers.

In his Braves playing days, Andruw averaged a year defensive score of 26.4 per season. Simply incredible.

Pretty much. There have been players to do what Andruw did in a given year. But year after year after year? Nobody has or will ever come close imo.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Dang Vizcaino. That looked like it hurt Harrison.

[USMA76]

Defense is just killing us in this series.

[msstate7]

And y'all thought kemp was bad

[msstate7]

They'll overturn it

[USMA76]

Big review here. Hope there's not enough to overturn.

[sturg33]

The defense on this team is a complete clown show

Luckily, defense doesn't matter

[sturg33]

I don't see how they overturn this one.

[msstate7]

Yes! Get the ball out sooner, Swanson

[msstate7]

I don't see how they overturn this one.

I was basing my prediction solely on we're cursed

[mqt]

HUGE Double Play there. PNC is deflated.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

The defense on this team is a complete clown show

Luckily, defense doesn't matter

Most people saying defense doesn't matter expect their 1B to catch easy ones.

Also, phew, that review was close.

[sturg33]

Yes! Get the ball out sooner, Swanson

Swanson has been unimpressive on defense so far this year

[sturg33]

I was basing my prediction solely on we're cursed

I would say the great majority of our woes have been self inflicted

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Swanson has been unimpressive on defense so far this year

If he makes plays, he can be as unimpressive as he wants to be.

[sturg33]

If he makes plays, he can be as unimpressive as he wants to be.

well luckily we have an option in Albies too

[msstate7]

well luckily we have an option in Albies too

Apparently we like Swanson at SS more

[sturg33]

Swanson seems to struggle with the high heat.

Can't lay off and can't catch up.

[USMA76]

Apparently we like Swanson at SS more

Which of them would be better at 3B?

[msstate7]

Which of them would be a better at 3B?

I'd say Riley or maitan haha

[msstate7]

Swanson seems to struggle with the high heat.

Can't lay off and can't catch up.

Young, mane... he's gonna get better.

[sturg33]

Young, mane... he's gonna get better.

I wish he was learning this in AAA

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Swanson seems to struggle with the high heat.

Can't lay off and can't catch up.
Freeman does too.

Garcia is our only player who can hit 96 MPH fastballs up in the zone.

[msstate7]

I wish he was learning this in AAA

Well he's not so man up and move on

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

I wish he was learning this in AAA

He learned how to hit homers.

[msstate7]

Good grief.

[USMA76]

Seeing eye hit and a passed ball. Man, this team is tough to watch this year.

[jpack1]

Looking like the bad news bears again

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

I wish he was learning this in AAA
I wish Flowers was learning how to catch in extended spring training.

That's one way to get Bell out of the game.

[USMA76]

Gift from Mercer--glimmer of hope.

[msstate7]

Good grief x1500

[USMA76]

Puke.

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Should have been a K the way this ump has been calling the expanded zone.

[jpack1]

Why did we sign B Phillips

[Ozzie Swanson]

Good grief x1500

Phillips has got to get rid of that ball.

[mqt]

This sucks.

[keithlaw]

Why did we sign B Phillips

we didnt

[USMA76]

Nothing to review here. That was a good slide.

[bravesnumberone]

This team is still miles away from tolerable.

[msstate7]

This is where they walk off.

[keithlaw]

This team is still miles away from tolerable.

free baseball is always a good thing

[TheBravos]

The throw put Phillips in a bad position. This infield is way worse than last year....somehow??

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

Demote Phillips to AAA. He moved into the slide.

[bravesfanMatt]

Enjoy listening to minor league ball. Haven't watched much MLB yet.

[msstate7]

Come on markakis

[bravesnumberone]

Bullpen owes Julio an apology.

[msstate7]

Bullpen owes Julio an apology.

Jace and flowers better sign the card too

[striker42]

This team is playing terrible ball but the crazy thing is it's not lack of talent causing it, it's lack of focus. Tons of lazy mental mistakes.

[thewupk]

Bullpen owes Julio an apology.

wins are overrated

[msstate7]

Get the run in flowers

[The Chosen One]

This team is playing terrible ball but the crazy thing is it's not lack of talent causing it, it's lack of focus. Tons of lazy mental mistakes.

Thought that's what Snit did so well...

[USMA76]

Pittsburgh's defense couldn't handle the pressure that Markakis' speed put on it.

[msstate7]

Who pitching 10th?

[Ozzie Swanson]

Who pitching 10th?

Ramirez?

[50PoundHead]

Bullpen owes Julio an apology.

And the defense.

[mqt]

Got a good feeling about Ramirez.

[msstate7]

Got a good feeling about Ramirez.

Hope it cancels out my bad one

[msstate7]

We're gonna lose here. Ramirez will walk one. Walk off double

[Ozzie Swanson]

Unreal.

[jpack1]

This team is hot garbage.

[USMA76]

This one stings. Two days to think about being 1-5 and swept in extra innings.

[thewupk]

lol

[msstate7]

Use the day off to upgrade. No way this roster should be the same vs Miami Tuesday

[jpack1]

Is Fredi still hiding in the corner of the dugout.

[bravesnumberone]

Sucks having little to no hope after one week of games. Product remains mostly garbage.

[sturg33]

We're not any where close to contention folks. I think 2018 is a pipe dream.

[sturg33]

Well he's not so man up and move on

OK I'll try to man up. Thanks

[striker42]

This bullpen is awful. Combine that with tons of mental mistakes and we're giving games away. Ridiculous.

[msstate7]

OK I'll try to man up. Thanks

You can do it. I believe in you

[Russ2dollas]

Use the day off to upgrade. No way this roster should be the same vs Miami Tuesday

Defense is letting us down

Carrying all these rp doesn't help if only a couple are good

Suzuki is a pinch hitter for us. Think about that

[SJ24]

We're not any where close to contention folks. I think 2018 is a pipe dream.

I've said for a while that we should trade Julio and Freddie and gun for 2020.

Most of our system's elite talent is under 20.

[sturg33]

You can do it. I believe in you

I'm not the one who supported losing a year of prime Swanson in a wasted season.

And I'm not the one who was delusional enough to think the Braves finishing the season strong was going to carry us into 2017. All it did was cost us in the future.

[sturg33]

I've said for a while that we should trade Julio and Freddie and gun for 2020.

Most of our system's elite talent is under 20.

I agree... not enough positional talent and the pitchers haven't advanced quickly enough to make an impact quickly enough

Imagine if we had someone like Margot right now instead of Matt Wisler

[msstate7]

I'm not the one who supported losing a year of prime Swanson in a wasted season.

And I'm not the one who was delusional enough to think the Braves finishing the season strong was going to carry us into 2017. All it did was cost us in the future.

Well apparently the FO doesn't care what you think. Swanson is here... you should probably move on with your life instead of dreaming about Swanson patrolling SS in Gwinnett

[TURBO]

I'm not the one who supported losing a year of prime Swanson in a wasted season.

And I'm not the one who was delusional enough to think the Braves finishing the season strong was going to carry us into 2017. All it did was cost us in the future.


You are the annoying one though :FrediWut:

[sturg33]

Well apparently the FO doesn't care what you think. Swanson is here... you should probably move on with your life instead of dreaming about Swanson patrolling SS in Gwinnett

The FO doesn't seem to be too bright.

But hopefully we'll eventually be a winner again like we were under the Wren administration.

[msstate7]

The FO doesn't seem to be too bright.

But hopefully we'll eventually be a winner again like we were under the Wren administration.

I'm certainly not defending the FO at the moment.

[ixiXSolidXixi]

Seth Beer here we come!!

[thewupk]

You are the annoying one though :FrediWut:

What's annoying is winning games at the end of last season. Also annoying to waste a year of Swanson by not waiting until next week to call him up.

[FreemanFan]

Does it really matter if Swanson becomes arbitration eligible in August or at the end of the season? Either way, he can't file until after the season. Winning at the end of a lost season did cost us a much higher draft pick, though.

[thewupk]

Does it really matter if Swanson becomes arbitration eligible in August or at the end of the season? Either way, he can't file until after the season. Winning at the end of a lost season did cost us a much higher draft pick, though.

Calling up Swanson last year or having him start this season in Atlanta had no bearing on when he could become a FA. Waiting until next week to call him up for the first time would of delayed it for another season. So essentially 6 weeks of Swanson (4 in a lost season) is worth giving up an extra year of control.

[Enscheff]

Does it really matter if Swanson becomes arbitration eligible in August or at the end of the season? Either way, he can't file until after the season. Winning at the end of a lost season did cost us a much higher draft pick, though.

If this is the extent of your knowledge, it's probably best you stay out of discussions regarding player control.

[Enscheff]

Remember when folks thought this team could win 80+ games?

Those people are funny. And also nowhere to be found...

[msstate7]

Remember when folks thought this team could win 80+ games?

Those people are funny. And also nowhere to be found...

What did you call? 76?

[sturg33]

7 of 17 runs for PIt were unearned... and I count 2 more that were earned bc of failure to turn double plays.

Didn't realize the defense would be this dreadful. Garcia is awful, Dansby has not been good, Phillips is awful, left field is awful, and Freeman has been awful.

Ugly

[Russ2dollas]

Swanson needs to play. I like how he's playing now. If you want to be good the next couple of years you need him to gain experience.

We are hoping to bring up multiple rookies each year for years. You need some guys to have established themselves.

Plus everyone seems to think dansby is going to get an extension

If we play like this I'd leave Ozzie down bc Ozzie is sooo young.

[bravesfanMatt]

Still holding strong at 96 wins. #hope

[msstate7]

Still holding strong at 96 wins. #hope

That's wishful thinking. This is clearly a 88-74 team

[keithlaw]

Remember when folks thought this team could win 80+ games?

Those people are funny. And also nowhere to be found...

eat **** ***got

[striker42]

Anyone else a little confused as to why we got a three city road trip to start the year? Seems a bit odd to not play in front of a home crowd until two weeks into the season.

[keithlaw]

7 of 17 runs for PIt were unearned... and I count 2 more that were earned bc of failure to turn double plays.

Didn't realize the defense would be this dreadful. Garcia is awful, Dansby has not been good, Phillips is awful, left field is awful, and Freeman has been awful.

Ugly

its been awful but dansby and freeman are better than this. defense can slump too

[msstate7]

Calling it now... we take both in Miami to get to 3-5 headed home

[The Chosen One]

Anyone else a little confused as to why we got a three city road trip to start the year? Seems a bit odd to not play in front of a home crowd until two weeks into the season.

Happened to Yanks on Jeter's last season.

[bravesnumberone]

I think the Braves specifically asked for it so kinks with the new park could be worked out if needed.

[sturg33]

Anyone else a little confused as to why we got a three city road trip to start the year? Seems a bit odd to not play in front of a home crowd until two weeks into the season.

Definitely gonna take the air out of the sails a bit by the time we get to Suntrust

[Managuarantano's Volunteers]

I bet we'll be better in the second half like last year.

[NinersSBChamps]

Sucks having little to no hope after one week of games. Product remains mostly garbage.

You weren't sucked into actually thinking this team worth anything, were you?

[bravesnumberone]

You weren't sucked into actually thinking this team worth anything, were you?

I had hoped to see a little more competence. Little evidence of that at the moment. I was thinking somewhere in the 74-78 win range this year. 78 if a lot of things went right.

[thethe]

I think the offense showed great signs this weekend. The starting pitching has been good. Defense a disaster and bullpen bad. Still have faith this is a near 500 team.

[nsacpi]

this is going to be an entertaining team that everyone will want to dance with

[sturg33]

this is going to be an entertaining team that everyone will want to dance with

Definitely fun team to watch!

[bravesfanMatt]

Definitely fun team to watch!

Eh. I only watched a few innings. But it has been fun. The minors have been even more fun.

[sturg33]

Eh. I only watched a few innings. But it has been fun. The minors have been even more fun.

I think it's been like watching a jv baseball team. All the errors.

The team isn't young either. Kemp, Markakis, Garcia, Phillips, catchers are all old

[msstate7]

I think it's been like watching a jv baseball team. All the errors.

The team isn't young either. Kemp, Markakis, Garcia, Phillips, catchers are all old

Takes the older guys longer to get stretched out. They'll be vacuuming and pounding everything come the San Diego series. #wildcardin17

[msstate7]

Miami SS on DL. Not even gonna try to spell it

[bravesfanMatt]

I think it's been like watching a jv baseball team. All the errors.

The team isn't young either. Kemp, Markakis, Garcia, Phillips, catchers are all old

Then watch the real JV guys. The minor leagues are a blast. These guys play because they have something to prove. Never got into the minors until going to a few bham games last season. Now I am all in. Our 4 teams will be contending this year. Will be fun to follow.

[sturg33]

Then watch the real JV guys. The minor leagues are a blast. These guys play because they have something to prove. Never got into the minors until going to a few bham games last season. Now I am all in. Our 4 teams will be contending this year. Will be fun to follow.

I agree it would be nice but I have to watch the big league club... as torturous as it is.

[msstate7]

I agree it would be nice but I have to watch the big league club... as torturous as it is.

I'm the same way... glutton for punishment

[Julio3000]

I don't have any illusions about this being a contending team, but the poor showing this opening week isn't really representative of what they are, either. Some of the flaws are real: anemic bench and shaky bullpen. Some of it was uncharacteristic defensive lapses and bad luck on balls in play. Those will even out, and the bench and bullpen are issues that are addressable (at least incrementally) if we choose to do so.

[nsacpi]

I don't have any illusions about this being a contending team, but the poor showing this opening week isn't really representative of what they are, either. Some of the flaws are real: anemic bench and shaky bullpen. Some of it was uncharacteristic defensive lapses and bad luck on balls in play. Those will even out, and the bench and bullpen are issues that are addressable (at least incrementally) if we choose to do so.

Bench and bullpen are relatively easy to address. Which raises the question of why they haven't been. The FO has had the entire off-season and spring training to do something about it.

[The Chosen One]

Bench I can understand.

If Mauricio wasn't out our bullpen is probably a little better. I mean JJ blowing a save was inexcusable.

[Tapate50]

I don't have any illusions about this being a contending team, but the poor showing this opening week isn't really representative of what they are, either. Some of the flaws are real: anemic bench and shaky bullpen. Some of it was uncharacteristic defensive lapses and bad luck on balls in play. Those will even out, and the bench and bullpen are issues that are addressable (at least incrementally) if we choose to do so.

I am a little bit surprised by the pen having a bad go of it, but getting Cabrera back goes a long way for that and I'd think we would have some help coming from the minors to solidify that as well.

The bench? Yeah, yuck.

[thewupk]

Bench and bullpen are relatively easy to address. Which raises the question of why they haven't been. The FO has had the entire off-season and spring training to do something about it.

Took just a couple of games to sign Ryan Howard though!

[bravesfanMatt]

The Bull pen is not as bad as it has started. Viz's runs were on the defense.. even JJ did his job and the defense let him down. He also made quality pitches that just missed low. Jo. Rameriz had a bad game. I hope he is better, but I would expect inconsistency from him. He was lights out the other night.

[thewupk]

The Bull pen is not as bad as it has started. Viz's runs were on the defense.. even JJ did his job and the defense let him down. He also made quality pitches that just missed low. Jo. Rameriz had a bad game. I hope he is better, but I would expect inconsistency from him. He was lights out the other night.

Then pen is pretty brutal right now even with the defense being awful.
Braves bullpen has a 4.82 K/9 and a 4.82 BB/9. Just awful numbers.

[Julio3000]

Losing one key arm in the bullpen can be brutal if you're not super-deep. Cabrera returning will shore things up a lot. We still need a lefty and another trustworthy RHP.

[bravesfanMatt]

Then pen is pretty brutal right now even with the defense being awful.
Braves bullpen has a 4.82 K/9 and a 4.82 BB/9. Just awful numbers.

Agreed.. I wasn't trying to paint the pen as being great. I know they are better than they are... But we will have to wait for relief from within before we could be good.

I was hoping more from Roe this year.. I still think Krol will rebound.. JJ and Viz will be solid and Mo and Jose will be inconsistent.. EOF is fools gold.. Colly is just there to mop up or take the beating.

[msstate7]

Agreed.. I wasn't trying to paint the pen as being great. I know they are better than they are... But we will have to wait for relief from within before we could be good.

I was hoping more from Roe this year.. I still think Krol will rebound.. JJ and Viz will be solid and Mo and Jose will be inconsistent.. EOF is fools gold.. Colly is just there to mop up or take the beating.

The Paco (MLB career era in the 2.50 range) release still baffles me

[bravesfanMatt]

The Paco (MLB career era in the 2.50 range) release still baffles me

me too.

[UNCBlue012]

This team isn't half bad, they just have to improve. We keep barely losing games lol but dumb losses like yesterday define season. Freeman was awesome.

[UNCBlue012]

On that note, our starting pitching hasn't been too bad. Ender needs to man the hell up though.

[Tapate50]

On that note, our starting pitching hasn't been too bad. Ender needs to man the hell up though.

He may be one of those really slow starters...ala Adam "is it June yet" Laroche.

[nsacpi]

Losing one key arm in the bullpen can be brutal if you're not super-deep. Cabrera returning will shore things up a lot. We still need a lefty and another trustworthy RHP.

Throughout most of the off-season we were sitting on a bullpen that really had only two guys who had shown the talent and/or track record to be reliable bullpen guys. Viz and JJ and both came with some question marks. Then you had Krol, who I thought had shown enough to count on. That's 3. Optimistically. Not really enough.

The others had issues. I was skeptical about Cabrera, given his control issues and lack of AAA seasoning. Others (including Paco, EOF, Collmenter, Ramirez, Roe) had injury issues or a lack of successful track record. You take a chance on 1 or 2 like that. But we have too many of them. Ideally our pen should consist of 5 fairly reliable guys and 2 that we take a flyer on.

I have similar thoughts on the bench. It's ok to have a guy like Bonifacio or D'Arnaud who can fill in at just about every position. But 2 of them? That's like an unforced error. JC seems to have skipped Roster Construction 101.

[thewupk]

He may be one of those really slow starters...ala Adam "is it June yet" Laroche.

He's done it every year of his young career so far. Sucks that's he put in a spot where it's magnified as he's not really a leadoff hitter anyways.

[smootness]

The Paco (MLB career era in the 2.50 range) release still baffles me

It was clearly something beyond the on-field product that led to that. No one has picked him up since, have they?

[bravesfanMatt]

Throughout most of the off-season we were sitting on a bullpen that really had only two guys who had shown the talent and/or track record to be reliable bullpen guys. Viz and JJ and both came with some question marks. Then you had Krol, who I thought had shown enough to count on. That's 3. Optimistically. Not really enough.

The others had issues. I was skeptical about Cabrera, given his control issues and lack of AAA seasoning. Others (including Paco, EOF, Collmenter, Ramirez, Roe) had injury issues or a lack of successful track record. You take a chance on 1 or 2 like that. But we have too many of them. Ideally our pen should consist of 5 fairly reliable guys and 2 that we take a flyer on.

I have similar thoughts on the bench. It's ok to have a guy like Bonifacio or D'Arnaud who can fill in at just about every position. But 2 of them? That's like an unforced error. JC seems to have skipped Roster Construction 101.

Well typed!

[Enscheff]

Throughout most of the off-season we were sitting on a bullpen that really had only two guys who had shown the talent and/or track record to be reliable bullpen guys. Viz and JJ and both came with some question marks. Then you had Krol, who I thought had shown enough to count on. That's 3. Optimistically. Not really enough.

The others had issues. I was skeptical about Cabrera, given his control issues and lack of AAA seasoning. Others (including Paco, EOF, Collmenter, Ramirez, Roe) had injury issues or a lack of successful track record. You take a chance on 1 or 2 like that. But we have too many of them. Ideally our pen should consist of 5 fairly reliable guys and 2 that we take a flyer on.

I have similar thoughts on the bench. It's ok to have a guy like Bonifacio or D'Arnaud who can fill in at just about every position. But 2 of them? That's like an unforced error. JC seems to have skipped Roster Construction 101.

That's the part that upsets me more so than the losing. I expect to lose in year 3 of a rebuild. I do NOT expect to see the FO making obvious roster construction errors in year 3 of the rebuild when the team is supposed to be on the upswing.

There is no excuse for how bad this bench is. Phillips for SRod was a direct plug in, so it's not like the bench was ever going to be better than it is now.

The fact the FO doesn't see a need for a competent RH hitting 4th OFer to plsit time with Markakis/Inciarte and be the daily defensive replacement for Kemp is laughable.

The fact the FO doesn't see the need for a LH hitting 3B to platoon with Garcia and be his defensive replacement is inexcusable.

These are very basic roster construction issues that the FO seems completely unable to grasp, and is evidence they won't be able to construct a winner with the financial constraints of a mid-market payroll.

So, Braves homers, which is it? Are they lying to us for a 3rd year in a row about being better? Or are they showing they are too incompetent to build a better roster?

[smootness]

That's the part that upsets me more so than the losing. I expect to lose in year 3 of a rebuild. I do NOT expect to see the FO making obvious roster construction errors in year 3 of the rebuild when the team is supposed to be on the upswing.

There is no excuse for how bad this bench is. Phillips for SRod was a direct plug in, so it's not like the bench was ever going to be better than it is now.

The fact the FO doesn't see a need for a competent RH hitting 4th OFer to plsit time with Markakis/Inciarte and be the daily defensive replacement for Kemp is laughable.

The fact the FO doesn't see the need for a LH hitting 3B to platoon with Garcia and be his defensive replacement is inexcusable.

These are very basic roster construction issues that the FO seems completely unable to grasp, and is evidence they won't be able to construct a winner with the financial constraints of a mid-market payroll.

So, Braves homers, which is it? Are they lying to us for a 3rd year in a row about being better? Or are they showing they are too incompetent to build a better roster?

Well, I'm sure they're planning on Albies and Ruiz being up before terribly long. So that gives you the LH 3B and puts 2 of the Ruiz/Garcia/Phillips group on the bench. So I'm sure that's in their mind. As for the 4th OF, I agree it is a need that could be addressed fairly easily. As to why they haven't, I'm honestly not sure.

I'm fine with criticism of them over the bench, I think it's warranted at least to some degree. I do think this year is more about putting a semi-competitive team with some guys people know on the field than it is truly trying to win as many games as we can. But I would like to see a better pen and a better bench. I just have no idea what our budget for this year is and how close we are to maxing out.

What I do know is that if a bunch of us on message boards who don't know that much see obvious areas for improvement in the roster, I'm guessing that our FO also sees it. I don't know all the reasons they haven't done it.

[TheBravos]

That's the part that upsets me more so than the losing. I expect to lose in year 3 of a rebuild. I do NOT expect to see the FO making obvious roster construction errors in year 3 of the rebuild when the team is supposed to be on the upswing.

So, Braves homers, which is it? Are they lying to us for a 3rd year in a row about being better? Or are they showing they are too incompetent to build a better roster?

Oh...they are definitely lying to us. All these moves and old big name guys are about putting butts in seats for the new park. It has cost us many draft positions and will continue to do so.

The Kemp and Swanson moves very well kept us from the #1 pick, which we seemed to be a lock mid season. They needed some excitement going into this season and some extra hope to begin this season.

I have NO doubt that if there wasn't a new ball park...many of these moves you hate would have never have happened.

I have defended Kemp's production, but the trade should have never have happened....it just made no sense. Giving Kimbrel away on the cheap to clear payroll, only to add it back and more. The only 30+ year old players we should have on the roster right now, should be guys we hope to fill a spot and trade at the deadline.

So, I am with you in the fact that bad baseball decisions have been made, but I also believe there is a guy crunching numbers in a basement that felt the revenue generated from these moves out weighed the advantages of completely tanking...I disagree.

I "will" give Coppy a little extra cushion for the fact that I think many of these moves are made with Hart and Cox breathing down his neck. I have a feeling that many of the bad moves he has gotten flack for...were moves he wasn't big on (but was following orders). I could be wrong of course. In no way are those old men who have always been in charge just going to let a younger guy have the reins fully. He is on a short leash right now...count on it. His smaller moves for the most part have been great (those I feel like he does have complete control over).

[mfree80]

That's the part that upsets me more so than the losing. I expect to lose in year 3 of a rebuild. I do NOT expect to see the FO making obvious roster construction errors in year 3 of the rebuild when the team is supposed to be on the upswing.

There is no excuse for how bad this bench is. Phillips for SRod was a direct plug in, so it's not like the bench was ever going to be better than it is now.

The fact the FO doesn't see a need for a competent RH hitting 4th OFer to plsit time with Markakis/Inciarte and be the daily defensive replacement for Kemp is laughable.

The fact the FO doesn't see the need for a LH hitting 3B to platoon with Garcia and be his defensive replacement is inexcusable.

These are very basic roster construction issues that the FO seems completely unable to grasp, and is evidence they won't be able to construct a winner with the financial constraints of a mid-market payroll.

So, Braves homers, which is it? Are they lying to us for a 3rd year in a row about being better? Or are they showing they are too incompetent to build a better roster?

Oh that things were truly as black and white as you want them to be.

[TheBravos]

Oh that things were truly as black and white as you want them to be.

I "did" say I could be wrong 😂

[AerchAngel]

Well, I'm sure they're planning on Albies and Ruiz being up before terribly long. So that gives you the LH 3B and puts 2 of the Ruiz/Garcia/Phillips group on the bench. So I'm sure that's in their mind. As for the 4th OF, I agree it is a need that could be addressed fairly easily. As to why they haven't, I'm honestly not sure.

I'm fine with criticism of them over the bench, I think it's warranted at least to some degree. I do think this year is more about putting a semi-competitive team with some guys people know on the field than it is truly trying to win as many games as we can. But I would like to see a better pen and a better bench. I just have no idea what our budget for this year is and how close we are to maxing out.

What I do know is that if a bunch of us on message boards who don't know that much see obvious areas for improvement in the roster, I'm guessing that our FO also sees it. I don't know all the reasons they haven't done it.

Somebody got a hold of Lockhart pics and copied them. I bet he/she made a pretty penny off of that.

[Enscheff]

He's done it every year of his young career so far. Sucks that's he put in a spot where it's magnified as he's not really a leadoff hitter anyways.

Extreme SSS, but Mallex currently has a .368 OBP and 3 SBs in TB. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Mallex ends up with a superior OBP this year and over their entire careers, especially if he is platooned properly (which has a greater chance of happening in TB than in Atlanta). SBs and base running shouldn't be close once Mallex stops making bonehead mistakes.

I still say the Braves sold too quickly on Mallex.

[striker42]

Extreme SSS, but Mallex currently has a .368 OBP and 3 SBs in TB. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Mallex ends up with a superior OBP this year and over their entire careers. SBs and base running shouldn't be close once Mallex stops making bonehead mistakes.

I still say the Braves sold too quickly on Mallex.

I personally would have tried to unload Markakis and keep Mallex to play center while shifting Inciarte to right. However that would mean no Gohara. It'll be a few years before we know whether he was worth Mallex.

[Russ2dollas]

I think Rod is significantly better than phillips. At least he can play 2B/3b/LF.

I didn't like the Simba trade or the CK trade when they happened. I didn't like the Neck signing. Hated the Olivera deal. Disliked the Kemp deal. None of those have been terrible. On Tex deal scale none of these really registers.

This regime is going to live and die based on how their picks due, especially the pitchers. Early returns on Wisler and Blair are bad. Young guys look great but are still young.

We don't appear to have anyone that close at 3B, C or corner OF (maybe Peterson). Inciarte is good but can he hit? So this team is going to need Swanson and Albies to be 3+ WAR players....probably need those two to get 8 WAR together (tall task). B/c we are likely looking at 1 WAR guys at 3B and corner with Peterson and Ruiz. Kemp is locking down a bunch of payroll. And our only catcher option is a Lucroy to have any significant upgrade.

So we are going to need a pitching staff full of 3-4 WAR starters.

[Russ2dollas]

Extreme SSS, but Mallex currently has a .368 OBP and 3 SBs in TB. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Mallex ends up with a superior OBP this year and over their entire careers, especially if he is platooned properly (which has a greater chance of happening in TB than in Atlanta). SBs and base running shouldn't be close once Mallex stops making bonehead mistakes.

I still say the Braves sold too quickly on Mallex.

I think he's a 4th OF. I don't think he'll keep infield hitting his way to a high OBP. Still playing LF a lot. Still has a noodle arm.

Go hard might flame out but even if he's a lock down reliever I'd rather have that than Mallex. I feel like Didder can replace Mallex soon and maybe even Lein (contact is too crappy now I know).

[Enscheff]

I personally would have tried to unload Markakis and keep Mallex to play center while shifting Inciarte to right. However that would mean no Gohara. It'll be a few years before we know whether he was worth Mallex.

Again, Markakis is not the problem on this team. He is being used incorrectly. Just like last year, Markakis should be batting in the top 2 spots in the lineup. He is the best OBP hitter on the team not named Freddie Freeman, and he is being wasted batting in the bottom half of the lineup. The man has a ~.360 OBP since becoming a Brave with a sub-.400 SLG. Sticking him the 5 hole is laughable.

There are a couple reasons the Braves 8 and 9 hitters had so many PAs with RISP last season, and all of those reasons have to do with poor lineup construction. Miscasting Markakis as a middle of the order impact hitter rather than a top of the order table setter is the worst of the lineup construction mistakes, and will probably cost Freeman ~20 PAs with RISP over the course of the season.

[thethe]

Mallex is going to be a quality player but it does seem like Gohara has ace level stuff with a strong build. That potentially has more value.

The important thing to not is that Seattle looks stupid for getting Smiley in this acquisition. Not sure it's right to criticize the braves at this point.

[striker42]

Again, Markakis is not the problem on this team. He is being used incorrectly. Just like last year, Markakis should be batting in the top 2 spots in the lineup. He is the best OBP hitter on the team not named Freddie Freeman, and he is being wasted batting in the bottom half of the lineup. The man has a ~.360 OBP since becoming a Brave with a sub-.400 SLG. Sticking him the 5 hole is laughable.

There are a couple reasons the Braves 8 and 9 hitters had so many PAs with RISP last season, and all of those reasons have to do with poor lineup construction. Miscasting Markakis as a middle of the order impact hitter rather than a top of the order table setter is the worst of the lineup construction mistakes, and will probably cost Freeman ~20 PAs with RISP over the course of the season.

I wasn't saying Markakis was a problem. I actually like Markakis more than most. It's just when faced with the choice of which two of Mallex, Markakis, and Kemp I'd keep, it would be Mallex and Kemp. While I believe Markakis can still contribute, I think Mallex can become a dynamic player. As for Markakis or Kemp, Kemp brings the middle of the order righthanded power we need. We'd also have to pick up a good bit more money to unload Kemp.

So while I like Markakis, he'd have been the odd man out in our outfield if I was at the helm. Hopefully Gohara explodes and becomes a lefty ace for us making the trade of Mallex look amazing. We'll have to see.

[smootness]

Again, Markakis is not the problem on this team. He is being used incorrectly. Just like last year, Markakis should be batting in the top 2 spots in the lineup. He is the best OBP hitter on the team not named Freddie Freeman, and he is being wasted batting in the bottom half of the lineup. The man has a ~.360 OBP since becoming a Brave with a sub-.400 SLG. Sticking him the 5 hole is laughable.

There are a couple reasons the Braves 8 and 9 hitters had so many PAs with RISP last season, and all of those reasons have to do with poor lineup construction. Miscasting Markakis as a middle of the order impact hitter rather than a top of the order table setter is the worst of the lineup construction mistakes, and will probably cost Freeman ~20 PAs with RISP over the course of the season.

Hitters are hitters, lineup construction makes little difference. You're bizarrely going against the grain on modern thinking on this. Ah yes, because you can use it to paint the Braves as stupid.

Would I prefer Markakis higher in the order? Yes, with Inciarte moving down. But it's certainly not because Markakis is a 'table setter' and not a 'middle of the order impact hitter'. It's just because he's a better hitter than Incoarte.

[Enscheff]

Hitters are hitters, lineup construction makes little difference. You're bizarrely going against the grain on modern thinking on this. Ah yes, because you can use it to paint the Braves as stupid.

Would I prefer Markakis higher in the order? Yes, with Inciarte moving down. But it's certainly not because Markakis is a 'table setter' and not a 'middle of the order impact hitter'. It's just because he's a better hitter than Incoarte.

You are correct, optimizing the lineup won't have much impact. That's not the point.

The point is optimizing the lineup is an improvement the team can make immediately with zero cost. The fact the leadership of the team fails to do so is proof of their incompetence. Whether moving Markakis to the top of the lineup adds 1 run or 100 runs over the course of the season Is irrelevant, it is an improvement that competent management should make.

And I don't need to twist things to make the FO look inept. They do that all by themselves...

Poor lineup construction. Poor bench construction. Poor valuation of several spots in the lineup being occupied by bad, old, and sometimes overpriced players. No additions made to a poor bullpen. Poor optimization of valuable player assets like Swanson. These are all issues everyone has been pointing out all offseason, so they exactly mysteries to anyone.

Need I go on?

[Southcack77]

You are correct, optimizing the lineup won't have much impact. That's not the point.

The point is optimizing the lineup is an improvement the team can make immediately with zero cost. The fact the leadership of the team fails to do so is proof of their incompetence. Whether moving Markakis to the top of the lineup adds 1 run or 100 runs over the course of the season Is irrelevant, it is an improvement that competent management should make.

And I don't need to twist things to make the FO look inept. They do that all by themselves...

Poor lineup construction. Poor bench construction. Poor valuation of several spots in the lineup being occupied by bad, old, and sometimes overpriced players. No additions made to a poor bullpen. Poor optimization of valuable player assets like Swanson. These are all issues everyone has been pointing out all offseason, so they exactly mysteries to anyone.

Need I go on?

You don't need to...

Again, the Braves are not trying to contend in 2017. You can be upset about their not spending even more money to still not contend in 2017 if you want, but it isn't really going to make a lot of sense.

[smootness]

You are correct, optimizing the lineup won't have much impact. That's not the point.

The point is optimizing the lineup is an improvement the team can make immediately with zero cost. The fact the leadership of the team fails to do so is proof of their incompetence. Whether moving Markakis to the top of the lineup adds 1 run or 100 runs over the course of the season Is irrelevant, it is an improvement that competent management should make.

And I don't need to twist things to make the FO look inept. They do that all by themselves...

Poor lineup construction. Poor bench construction. Poor valuation of several spots in the lineup being occupied by bad, old, and sometimes overpriced players. No additions made to a poor bullpen. Poor optimization of valuable player assets like Swanson. These are all issues everyone has been pointing out all offseason, so they exactly mysteries to anyone.

Need I go on?

That's fine. The bottom line is, you will pick and choose whatever argument you want to try to make the Braves look bad in every situation. You would destroy others for using terms like 'table setter' in deciding where a player should hit in the lineup, yet here you are doing it when it suits your agenda.

[thethe]

That's fine. The bottom line is, you will pick and choose whatever argument you want to try to make the Braves look bad in every situation. You would destroy others for using terms like 'table setter' in deciding where a player should hit in the lineup, yet here you are doing it when it suits your agenda.

The agenda for many on this board is obvious.

[nsacpi]

The agenda for many on this board is obvious.

bad hombres...probably a bunch of Mexican Muslims...we need to get them outta here

[sturg33]

The agenda for many on this board is obvious.

lol "an agenda"

[50PoundHead]

Seems like the small sample size demon has invaded the thread.

[Hawk]

Seems like the small sample size demon has invaded the thread.

I volunteer to exorcise it.

[nsacpi]

Seems like the small sample size demon has invaded the thread.

It's been there in force this year. Including some cases that are meant to mock those prone to making too much of small sample outcomes.

[thethe]

bad hombres...probably a bunch of Mexican Muslims...we need to get them outta here

Worst kind of person.

[nsacpi]

Worst kind of person.

we need to build a wall to keep them out