Minors 4/19

[bravesfanMatt]

forgot Anderson was going off early today. Seems to be a little erratic. I missed his first two innings.

SOrry that my post did not take. Did this early this morning to no avail, apparently. I am hijacking this post.

WEDNESDAY SCHEDULE

CLASS AAA

Gwinnett 7, Rochester 6
Adams walk-off 2 run single; what a signee he's been so far

SP: Wisler 7 IP, 7 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 5 K
Hursh 1 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 0 K
WP: Hernandez (1-0, BS) 1 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 2 K

Adams 2-5, 3 RBI, SB
Kubitza 1-4, 2 R, HR (1st), RBI
Albies 1-5, 2B, R
***Kemp 1-3, RBI

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_04_19_rocaaa_gwiaaa_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)


CLASS AA

Mobile 5, Mississippi 1

SP: Withrow 5 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 5 K
LP: Biddle (0-1, BS) 1 IP, 2 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 1 K
Parsons 3 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 0 BB, 4 K

Franco 3-4, 2B
Harper 2-3, 2B
James 1-4

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_04_19_mobaax_msbaax_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)


ADVANCED CLASS A

Fort Myers 10, Florida 3

LP: Sanchez (0-2) 3.1 IP, 5 H, 5 ER, 3 BB, 1 K
Graham 1.2 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 1 K
Johnson-Mullins 2 IP, 1 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 1 K
Clouse 1 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 0 K

Riley 4-5, 2B, 2 R
A. Jackson 2-5, HR (4th), 3 RBI (DH)
Davidson 0-4, 3 K
Acuna 0-5, 4 K

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_04_19_floafa_ftmafa_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)




CLASS A

Columbia 3, Rome 2

LP: Anderson (1-1) 4 IP, 2 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 7 K, HBP
Franco 3 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 5 k
Custred 2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 3 K

Herbert 1-3, RBI, SB
Yepez 2-4, 2B, R, SB
Ventura 0-4
Mooney 1-4
---------
Tebow 0-4, 3 K

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_04_19_colafx_romafx_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)

[bravesfanMatt]

can confirm that Anderson is struggling to locate his change and curve.

[bravesfanMatt]

Can confirm that Anderson found his groove. He is not missing and they can't make any hard contact on him..when they do make contact. Ton of swing and misses on that change. Only problem, his pitch count is inflated due to his early command issues. And the Rome hitters can't touch Humphrey.. doesn't hurt that the ump is calling the game like Eric ****ing Greg.

[Tapate50]

Ozzie Albies is a career .310 hitter, and has never, ever faced a pitcher younger than him.

[Enscheff]

Sometimes even Musseran needs a while to get in the groove.

[bravesguy]

Still 7 Ks in 4 IP...not bad

[bravesfanMatt]

Still 7 Ks in 4 IP...not bad

Nothing was hit hard off him.. in fact the hardest hit was when Anderson plunked a dude in the head...(he was ok and stayed in game).. Anderson just had 3 BB, 1 HBP, and 1 wild pitch in his first 2 innings.

[Enscheff]

Nothing was hit hard off him.. in fact the hardest hit was when Anderson plunked a dude in the head...(he was ok and stayed in game).. Anderson just had 3 BB, 1 HBP, and 1 wild pitch in his first 2 innings.

He doesn't even throw hard enough to knock a guy out of the game? What a terrible pick at #3.

[bravesguy]

The MS rotation should have a new motto..."Anything you can do, I can do better!!"

Withrow (yeah he plays for MS too) is throwing a 1 hit wonder through 4IP.

[msstate7]

The MS rotation should have a new motto..."Anything you can do, I can do better!!"

Withrow (yeah he plays for MS too) is throwing a 1 hit wonder right now.

Without looking up actual numbers and going off memory, withrow has been the most impressive of all the Miss pitchers so far, right?

[bravesfanMatt]

Without looking up actual numbers and going off memory, withrow has been the most impressive of all the Miss pitchers so far, right?

If you take out Weigel, Allard and Soroka... then sure. His WHiP is mighty impressive though..

[cajunrevenge]

Remember that a lot of these minor league teams defense is atrocious and the playing field is not MLB caliber.

[msstate7]

If you take out Weigel, Allard and Soroka... then sure. His WHiP is mighty impressive though..

Lol

Withrow's ERA is now 1.76. He has 15 k in 15.1 ip. His whip was 0.64 coming into today. Avg against was .135 coming into today.

[thethe]

Lol

Withrow's ERA is now 1.76. He has 15 k in 15.1 ip. His whip was 0.64 coming into today. Avg against was .135 coming into today.

It's still early with these kids but the hit rate on the 2015 draft is amazing.

[Enscheff]

Lol

Withrow's ERA is now 1.76. He has 15 k in 15.1 ip. His whip was 0.64 coming into today. Avg against was .135 coming into today.

So he's basically a Drysdale/Ryan hybrid? Rysdale?

Where are the Braves going to find innings for all these HOF hybrids?

[msstate7]

So he's basically a Drysdale/Ryan hybrid? Rysdale?

Where are the Braves going to find innings for all these HOF hybrids?

9 man rotation

[Enscheff]

It's still early with these kids but the hit rate on the 2015 draft is amazing.

Now a kid who has pitched a few games at the AA level is a "hit"?

Posi-Braves...assemble!!

[msstate7]

Anyone know anything about the quality of hitters in the miss braves division? I know we have some good pitchers there, but wonder if lack of hitters in division skew numbers some

[bravesfanMatt]

I have seen enough of Cumberland that he is a non prospect in my eyes. his long loopy swing is no match for even A ball pitching. I am tired of his popup on the infield or K on fastballs down the middle.

[bravesfanMatt]

Anyone know anything about the quality of hitters in the miss braves division? I know we have some good pitchers there, but wonder if lack of hitters in division skew numbers some

I think the pitchers are just that good.

[Preacher]

Now a kid who has pitched a few games at the AA level is a "hit"?

Posi-Braves...assemble!!

When is it OK to start judging a player?

If a guy drafted in 2015 has been successful and moved up to AA where he is pitcher superbly so far -- yea that's a hit, especially when he was a 6th round pick. He's done nothing but increase his value. Time will tell what he will ultimately become, but wouldn't you say Soroka and Allard have been 'hits'? They've only pitched a few games above AA as well.

[Preacher]

I have seen enough of Cumberland that he is a non prospect in my eyes. his long loopy swing is no match for even A ball pitching. I am tired of his popup on the infield or K on fastballs down the middle.

Shame. Considering he was a top-80 pick AND we went overslot to sign him. Looking like a double-waste.

[Enscheff]

When is it OK to start judging a player?

If a guy drafted in 2015 has been successful and moved up to AA where he is pitcher superbly so far -- yea that's a hit, especially when he was a 6th round pick. He's done nothing but increase his value. Time will tell what he will ultimately become, but wouldn't you say Soroka and Allard have been 'hits'? They've only pitched a few games above AA as well.

You know what, you're right. I've read countless studies about the success of various drafts, and all of them consider a guy reaching AA as a successful pick.

Oh wait, it's the opposite. Nobody has ever called a guy reaching AA a "hit" except for the King of Homers...and now you.

[TheBravos]

You can't say they are a hit, but you CAN say they are trending in the right direction as a positive, instead of trying to make excuses for being lit up (like Newcomb) lol.

[bravesfanMatt]

Shame. Considering he was a top-80 pick AND we went overslot to sign him. Looking like a double-waste.

Now I haven't read countless studies on draft picks and swings, nor built numerous prospect simulators, but I might agree with you that the Cumberland pick seems to be a fail at this point. He has a really long swing and it seems over matched right now.

[bravesfanMatt]

You can't say they are a hit, but you CAN say they are trending in the right direction as a positive, instead of trying to make excuses for being lit up (like Newcomb) lol.

'hit' is a relative term. Anyone nit picking on that one word is just being a dick.. not much more to say about it really.

[bravesfanMatt]

bone head by demeritte.. had an infield single.. and then made a slight turn to 2 as the ball got away from the 1st baseman.. instead of just hustling back to first he walked slowly and got tagged out. The M-braves argued, but I saw the same thing as the ump.. Bush league call, but rules are rules. TD needed to hustle, because the next guy hit a double..

[Preacher]

You know what, you're right. I've read countless studies about the success of various drafts, and all of them consider a guy reaching AA as a successful pick.

Oh wait, it's the opposite. Nobody has ever called a guy reaching AA a "hit" except for the King of Homers...and now you.

You can only judge people based on what they've done since being drafted. How has Withrow done since being drafted? So far that pick looks successful, doesn't mean ultimately it will be.

[Julio3000]

Ozzie Albies is a career .310 hitter, and has never, ever faced a pitcher younger than him.

Love that guy, and love that factoid.

[bravesfanMatt]

Love that guy, and love that factoid.

this..

[Enscheff]

Ozzie Albies is a career .310 hitter, and has never, ever faced a pitcher younger than him.

Albies has a chance to be Altuve without the double digit HR power. I really hope the Braves don't be stupid and start his service clock during his age 20 season in a desperate attempt to draw fans and "build excitement for 2018". Brandon Phillips is the perfect 1 year solution at 2B for a non-contending team.

[Preacher]

Albies has a chance to be Altuve without the double digit HR power. I really hope the Braves don't be stupid and start his service clock during his age 20 season in a desperate attempts to draw fans and "build excitement for 2018".

Albies is coming up this year, its going to happen.

[atl717]

Albies will grow into double digit power. He's small but strong. Ball jumps off his bat.

Newcomb just isn't good and will get surpassed by people in a hurry.

[bravesguy]

Newcomb just isn't good and will get surpassed by people in a hurry.

He is a strange prospect. I believe that at the end of the year, he will have very similar stats to last year. The fans will say he improved by doing it at a high level. The naysayers will say he has not gained any control and will have trouble at the next level.

But nationally he will just be a prospect that gets passed by a larger number of prospects (Allard, Fried, Weigel, Soroka, Gohara, Anderson). If he is our 7th best pitching prospect, everyone will say he is slipping. I guess that is a shame, but in reality, as a Braves fan, that is a good thing.

[Enscheff]

Albies is coming up this year, its going to happen.

Another solidly stupid move that falls right in line with recent stupid moves made by the FO.

Giving up control over Swanson's age 29 season and Albies' age 27 season is beyond moronic, but it's the "Braves Way" I suppose.

[bravesfanMatt]

He is a strange prospect. I believe that at the end of the year, he will have very similar stats to last year. The fans will say he improved by doing it at a high level. The naysayers will say he has not gained any control and will have trouble at the next level.

But nationally he will just be a prospect that gets passed by a larger number of prospects (Allard, Fried, Weigel, Soroka, Gohara, Anderson). If he is our 7th best pitching prospect, everyone will say he is slipping. I guess that is a shame, but in reality, as a Braves fan, that is a good thing.

I think that is a pretty good analysis. I think ultimately he ends as a reliever.. hopefully a good one.

[bravesfanMatt]

Another solidly stupid move that falls right in line with recent stupid moves made by the FO.

Giving up control over Swanson's age 29 season and Albies' age 27 season is beyond moronic, but it's the "Braves Way" I suppose.

heard the White Sox have room on their bandwagon. Hopefully they don't call up Moncada.

[Enscheff]

heard the White Sox have room on their bandwagon. Hopefully they don't call up Moncada.

At least Moncada is actually performing well at AAA. How was Swanson doing at the time of his call up? Oh that's right, busting down the door with a .745 OPS in AA.

[bravesfanMatt]

At least Moncada is actually performing well at AAA. How was Swanson doing at the time of his call up?

what does that have to do with controlling an asset through X season for a rebuilding club.

[Tapate50]

Albies will grow into double digit power. He's small but strong. Ball jumps off his bat.

Newcomb just isn't good and will get surpassed by people in a hurry.

Saw some clips of him a few nights ago hitting a few off the fence and the OF'rs were still turned around running toward it. Seemed to be a solid indicator that they were smoked, instead of lollipops dropping.

[smootness]

Another solidly stupid move that falls right in line with recent stupid moves made by the FO.

Giving up control over Swanson's age 29 season and Albies' age 27 season is beyond moronic, but it's the "Braves Way" I suppose.

You want to hold him down the entire year? Which would obviously also include at least the first couple weeks of next year...and since he's down that long, might as well hold him past the Super 2 deadline in 2018.

[IslandBrave]

At least Moncada is actually performing well at AAA. How was Swanson doing at the time of his call up? Oh that's right, busting down the door with a .745 OPS in AA.

Isn't Ozzie "performing well" at AAA?

[cajunrevenge]

Wait a second, you can judge players performance without using WAR?

[cajunrevenge]

So he's basically a Drysdale/Ryan hybrid? Rysdale?

Where are the Braves going to find innings for all these HOF hybrids?


Are you sure your not a mets fan?

[Deester11]

Are you sure your not a mets fan?

Cue the popcorn gif.....

[cajunrevenge]

It's a joke only people who visited the mets scout forum years ago will get. So probably only thethe.

[Enscheff]

You want to hold him down the entire year? Which would obviously also include at least the first couple weeks of next year...and since he's down that long, might as well hold him past the Super 2 deadline in 2018.

That's exactly what I want them to do, and it's exactly what they should have done with Swanson. The extra year of control is the main issue, I'm not too concerned with Super 2.

[Enscheff]

Isn't Ozzie "performing well" at AAA?

Albies has an OPS of .785 in AAA. He is doing well, but he isn't exactly knocking down the door in AAA.

Moncada is currently destroying AAA. Kris Bryant obliterated AA and AAA in 2014 before being called up a couple weeks into 2015.

Albies and Swanson are/were not forcing their way onto the MLB roster. It was monumentally stupid to promote Swanson, and it will be equally stupid to promote Albies.

[bravesfanMatt]

Albies has an OPS of .785 in AAA. He is doing well, but he isn't exactly knocking down the door in AAA.

Moncada is currently destroying AAA. Kris Bryant obliterated AA and AAA in 2014 before being called up a couple weeks into 2015.

Albies and Swanson are/were not forcing their way onto the MLB roster. It was monumentally stupid to promote Swanson, and it will be equally stupid to promote Albies.


Wait..
so a guy who has a career line of .289/.396/.483/.879 with a 29% K-rate at 22 is 'Killing it'
and a guy who has a career line of .310/.375/.421/.796 with a 15% k-rate at 20 is doing 'well'

[Russ2dollas]

Albies has a chance to be Altuve without the double digit HR power. I really hope the Braves don't be stupid and start his service clock during his age 20 season in a desperate attempt to draw fans and "build excitement for 2018". Brandon Phillips is the perfect 1 year solution at 2B for a non-contending team.

It's not about maximizing service time.

The Braves want to be solid this year and in the playoffs next year. You can laugh......fine. But they don't want everyone good on the team not named FF to be playing their first inning after the Super 2 deadline in 2018.

They want Swanson up and the leader of these young guys.
They will want Ozzie to have some at bats under him before the 2018 meaningful season starts.
They will probably try and get at least one of Newcombe, Weigel and Fried to get their first start over with and get some experience.

[nsacpi]

It's not about maximizing service time.

The Braves want to be solid this year and in the playoffs next year. You can laugh......fine. But they don't want everyone good on the team not named FF to be playing their first inning after the Super 2 deadline in 2018.

They want Swanson up and the leader of these young guys.
They will want Ozzie to have some at bats under him before the 2018 meaningful season starts.
They will probably try and get at least one of Newcombe, Weigel and Fried to get their first start over with and get some experience.

I agree that it is better to "stagger" the callup of your best prospects rather than doing it all in the same year. But to my mind the benefits of that are second order compared to the benefits of having contractual control over peak productive years rather than "learning" years.

[Enscheff]

Wait..
so a guy who has a career line of .289/.396/.483/.879 with a 29% K-rate at 22 is 'Killing it'
and a guy who has a career line of .310/.375/.421/.796 with a 15% k-rate at 20 is doing 'well'

Yes, an OPS difference of ~80 points is the difference between "killing it" and "doing well".

Since you obviously don't understand how large of a spread that is...

Last year, an OPS of .879 was good for 24th in the game. An OPS of .796 ranked 72nd.

I would say ranking 72 out of 146 is "doing well", and ranking 25 out of 146 is "killing it".

[bravesfanMatt]

Yes, an OPS difference of ~80 points is the difference between "killing it" and "doing well".

Since you obviously don't understand how large of a spread that is...

Last year, an OPS of .879 was good for 24th in the game. An OPS of .796 ranked 72nd.

I would say ranking 72 out of 146 is "doing well", and ranking 25 out of 146 is "killing it".


I would disagree, factoring age and contact ability. I think Ozzie is doing exactly what he is supposed to do. get on base and play solid defense and not strike out.. Moncada is doing what he is supposed to do.. slug the ball, get on base, and play average defense.. Both will be in the Majors this year.

[Southcack77]

It's not about maximizing service time.

The Braves want to be solid this year and in the playoffs next year. You can laugh......fine. But they don't want everyone good on the team not named FF to be playing their first inning after the Super 2 deadline in 2018.

They want Swanson up and the leader of these young guys.
They will want Ozzie to have some at bats under him before the 2018 meaningful season starts.
They will probably try and get at least one of Newcombe, Weigel and Fried to get their first start over with and get some experience.

Preferably in September or at least after the braves have traded Phillips for a decent asset. Depending on injuries or needs some team might be looking for a 2b or bench bat.

[msstate7]

KEMvP drives in Albies. KEMvP knows how to drive guys in

[thethe]

Albies is forcing his way onto the team quickly.

[bravesfanMatt]

Albies is forcing his way onto the team quickly.

Doing "well"

[IslandBrave]

Albies has an OPS of .785 in AAA. He is doing well, but he isn't exactly knocking down the door in AAA.

Moncada is currently destroying AAA. Kris Bryant obliterated AA and AAA in 2014 before being called up a couple weeks into 2015.

Albies and Swanson are/were not forcing their way onto the MLB roster. It was monumentally stupid to promote Swanson, and it will be equally stupid to promote Albies.

Monumentally stupid. You really can't make this stuff up.

[thewupk]

Albies is forcing his way onto the team quickly.

Let's hope not.

[bravesfanMatt]

Let's hope not.

For real. Hoping he can win Gwinnett a few titles.

[thewupk]

For real. Hoping he can win Gwinnett a few titles.

Certainly won't be helping Atlanta do that this year. He could in 2024 though.

[thethe]

So what's your desired outcome with Albies?

[msstate7]

For real. Hoping he can win Gwinnett a few titles.

Don't bring him or anyone good up till we control them till they're 30. I hope the genius learned something with Swanson... there hasn't been a mistake this big since Chernobyl

[bravesfanMatt]

Certainly won't be helping Atlanta do that this year. He could in 2024 though.

Probably will be helping while he is under contract with the team.

[thewupk]

Probably will be helping while he is under contract with the team.

And I'd like to maximize that.

[thewupk]

So what's your desired outcome with Albies?

2 weeks into next season is likely the best scenario. If for whatever reason the Braves are contending this year and Albies is doing well I would call him up to help the team. I just don't see that scenario playing out.

[bravesfanMatt]

And I'd like to maximize that.

And if they want to control him till age 31. You are saying the braves can't offer a 9 year contract versus an 8 year contract.

[zbhargrove]

Alex Jackson with Homer #4 on the year. His K rate is still high but nothing near like it has been.

[thethe]

2 weeks into next season is likely the best scenario. If for whatever reason the Braves are contending this year and Albies is doing well I would call him up to help the team. I just don't see that scenario playing out.

After what this kid has done so far in the minors? That's crazy. He deserves the promotion (assuming he continues hisnpath) by midseason at the latest.

[thewupk]

And if they want to control him till age 31. You are saying the braves can't offer a 9 year contract versus an 8 year contract.

They can offer that but the player has to accept it. What is the downside of keeping him down 2 weeks into next season though? What is the upside of rushing him through AAA at age 20?

[thewupk]

After what this kid has done so far in the minors? That's crazy. He deserves the promotion (assuming he continues hisnpath) by midseason at the latest.

I don't see how having a 20 year old complete a full year at AAA is crazy.

[thethe]

I don't see how having a 20 year old complete a full year at AAA is crazy.

Because not all 20 year Olds are created equal. Albies is clearly a special player and should be rewarded when he shows he's ready.

[sturg33]

I don't see how having a 20 year old complete a full year at AAA is crazy.

It's crazy that it's considered crazy...

It's like we haven't learned our lesson from the Dansby failure

[thethe]

It's crazy that it's considered crazy...

It's like we haven't learned our lesson from the Dansby failure

Dansby is a failure now?

[sturg33]

Dansby is a failure now?

The decision to call him up was a failure

[thethe]

The decision to call him up was a failure

Clearly....they ruined his career.

[CJ9]

Acuna has struck out 33% of the time this season coming into today, and he's 0-3 with 2 Ks tonight so far.

[thewupk]

Because not all 20 year Olds are created equal. Albies is clearly a special player and should be rewarded when he shows he's ready.


Just like Andruw, Heyward, Furcal, etc were. All often criticized for being rushed because they didn't meet offensive expectations.

[thewupk]

Clearly....they ruined his career.

He wasn't ready. Or do you think getting abused by major league sliders on a nightly basis as being ready?

[sturg33]

Clearly....they ruined his career.

The rational:

- Get his feet wet and ready for 2017 (failed)
- Increase attendance for 2017 (failed)
- Provide a spark to get our us a worse draft spot (success)

[thethe]

Just like Andruw, Heyward, Furcal, etc were. All often criticized for being rushed because they didn't meet offensive expectations.

Furcal was 22/23 but your point is taken. There are also examples of 20 years Olds who do quite well. It's just not something I'm willing to say he has to stay down. If he is destroying AAA then June is the start of the discussion.

[thethe]

The rational:

- Get his feet wet and ready for 2017 (failed)
- Increase attendance for 2017 (failed)
- Provide a spark to get our us a worse draft spot (success)

Funny that you think the first two are set in stone. Just shows your clear bias.

[thewupk]

Furcal was 22/23 but your point is taken. There are also examples of 20 years Olds who do quite well. It's just not something I'm willing to say he has to stay down. If he is destroying AAA then June is the start of the discussion.

But he's not destroying it. And I don't see him as being some kind of offensive force either to do that either.

[sturg33]

Funny that you think the first two are set in stone. Just shows your clear bias.

My suggestions was to call him up April 14th.

Had we done that, he'd have debuted on the opening of the new stadium, we'd be no worse record-wise right now, we may even have better attendance due to the excitement of his hair, we'd have an extra year of control, and we may be picking 2nd instead of 5th.

[thethe]

But he's not destroying it. And I don't see him as being some kind of offensive force either to do that either.

Forgot who produced the article but from a statistical perspective Albies has done things in the minors at an age/level that only Trout has done. Albies has shredded the minor leagues. He's special.

[thewupk]

I get it. Albies is our #1 prospect and at AAA. Our MLB team is trash. You want the shiny new toy. But other then to satisfy our need to see him I don't see anything positive about rushing this kid. If this team was contending (like with Heyward, Andruw, etc) that would be a different story. But we aren't close to that timeframe yet.

[thethe]

I get it. Albies is our #1 prospect and at AAA. Our MLB team is trash. You want the shiny new toy. But other then to satisfy our need to see him I don't see anything positive about rushing this kid. If this team was contending (like with Heyward, Andruw, etc) that would be a different story. But we aren't close to that timeframe yet.

The contending point is a valid argument. I just don't think we should set these kids time frames based on the success of the major league club. They either are major league ready or not

[zbhargrove]

I was excited to see Swanson, but it was a mistake to call him up. I can admit that. I don't even see how its an argument at this point.

[thewupk]

Forgot who produced the article but from a statistical perspective Albies has done things in the minors at an age/level that only Trout has done. Albies has shredded the minor leagues. He's special.

Like post a 6% walk rate with an ISO barely over 100? There may be some statistical oddity that both have done due to their age but let's not get carried away here.

[thewupk]

The contending point is a valid argument. I just don't think we should set these kids time frames based on the success of the major league club. They either are major league ready or not

And I think Albies would benefit greatly from a full year at AAA.

[nsacpi]

The contending point is a valid argument. I just don't think we should set these kids time frames based on the success of the major league club. They either are major league ready or not

so was Swanson major league ready

[Southcack77]

I get it. Albies is our #1 prospect and at AAA. Our MLB team is trash. You want the shiny new toy. But other then to satisfy our need to see him I don't see anything positive about rushing this kid. If this team was contending (like with Heyward, Andruw, etc) that would be a different story. But we aren't close to that timeframe yet.

there is no point in bringing him up while Phillips is on the team and performing.

I'm curious how the "disappointing" offense of A. Jones, R. Furcal, and J. Heyward is attributing to their being "rushed".

Jones hit 400 HRs, Furcal was a quality offensive player for a lengthy career, and Hayward certainly didn't begin his career struggling to hit. I'm thinking whatever flaws they had in their offensive game weren't going to be ironed out in another 400 minor league at bats.

[thethe]

so was Swanson major league ready

The way he's looked at the plate so far this year it certainly doesn't seem like it. Still a small samole though.

[thewupk]

there is no point in bringing him up while Phillips is on the team and performing.

I'm curious how the "disappointing" offense of A. Jones, R. Furcal, and J. Heyward is attributing to their being "rushed".

Jones hit 400 HRs, Furcal was a quality offensive player for a lengthy career, and Hayward certainly didn't begin his career struggling to hit. I'm thinking whatever flaws they had in their offensive game weren't going to be ironed out in another 400 minor league at bats.

I tend to agree with your line of thinking. But it's often been brought up that some of their offensive development didn't go as planned due to being rushed. Whether that is true I don't know. I'm not in the business of developing hitters.

[Garmel]

MVP!!!!!

[zbhargrove]

One interesting statistic I saw on twitter is that Dansby lead all MLB with 14 lineouts, so while he's been pressing and struggling... he's also had some luck issues. The more impressive thing is that Freeman is second on the club with 10 lineouts... can you say switched on?

[Southcack77]

I tend to agree with your line of thinking. But it's often been brought up that some of their offensive development didn't go as planned due to being rushed. Whether that is true I don't know. I'm not in the business of developing hitters.

Thought by whom and with what evidence to support it?

[thewupk]

Thought by whom and with what evidence to support it?

Is there any evidence to not support it though? Players do get rushed without fully developing their ability as hitters. Generally these are players with insane raw talents that get by on that alone for awhile.

[CJ9]

Max Fried moves into Pipeline's top 100 with Aaron Judge losing prospect status.

[CJ9]

Acuna ends the night 0-5 with 4 Ks after coming in with strikeoutsin 33% of his at bats. Woof.

[msstate7]

Acuna ends the night 0-5 with 4 Ks after coming in with strikeoutsin 33% of his at bats. Woof.

The genius ruined him too.

Meanwhile Riley was 4-5

[Braves1976]

Lane Adams second hit, a two RBI single in the 9th walks off G-Braves 7-6. He had 3 RBI's total and also stole a base in the game.

[msstate7]

Lane Adams second hit, a two RBI single in the 9th walks off G-Braves 7-6. He had 3 RBI's total and also stole a base in the game.

I got a trade...

Gwinnett gets boni, recker, and krol
Atlanta gets kemp, Adams, and motte

[cajunrevenge]

Some of you have warped ideas on how development works. These kids aren't robots. Leaving them down in the minors too long can have a negative effect too. You don't learn to hit Syndergaard by facing AAA pitching. If anything being in the majors speeds up their development. Unless the time in the majors shatters their confidence it's not hurting them. Prospects in the high minors know they are close. Sometimes they try too hard to hit well enough to get a call up and struggle. Then never regain their original form.



The minor league's don't work like video games where prospects just continually progress because they are in the minors.

[thethe]

Some of you have warped ideas on how development works. These kids aren't robots. Leaving them down in the minors too long can have a negative effect too. You don't learn to hit Syndergaard by facing AAA pitching. If anything being in the majors speeds up their development. Unless the time in the majors shatters their confidence it's not hurting them. Prospects in the high minors know they are close. Sometimes they try too hard to hit well enough to get a call up and struggle. Then never regain their original form.



The minor league's don't work like video games where prospects just continually progress because they are in the minors.

And with almost the majority of players - They are either going to be good hitters or not once they reach a certain stage. No amount of minor league seasoning will help them.

[Tapate50]

We need to trade for whoever was on the mound for Ft Myers. K machine

[nsacpi]

Some of you have warped ideas on how development works. These kids aren't robots. Leaving them down in the minors too long can have a negative effect too. You don't learn to hit Syndergaard by facing AAA pitching. If anything being in the majors speeds up their development. Unless the time in the majors shatters their confidence it's not hurting them. Prospects in the high minors know they are close. Sometimes they try too hard to hit well enough to get a call up and struggle. Then never regain their original form.



The minor league's don't work like video games where prospects just continually progress because they are in the minors.

How much time did Freddie Freeman and Chipper Jones spend in AAA? Did it hurt their psyches? Did they become discouraged? Are they robots? Enquiring minds want to know.

[nsacpi]

And with almost the majority of players - They are either going to be good hitters or not once they reach a certain stage. No amount of minor league seasoning will help them.


I agree that the players will develop about the same in AAA or the majors. So the question for me becomes...do you want them using up those valuable years of contractual control with "learning years" in the majors? I don't think so.

[thethe]

I agree that the players will develop about the same in AAA or the majors. So the question for me becomes...do you want them using up those valuable years of contractual control with "learning years" in the majors? I don't think so.

That depends on if we are able to sign them to a quicker and more friendly extension based on us being 'good' to them. That's impossible to evaluate of course but not something that should be overlooked. I believe the plan to lock these kids up as soon as possible.

[Southcack77]

How much time did Freddie Freeman and Chipper Jones spend in AAA? Did it hurt their psyches? Did they become discouraged? Are they robots? Enquiring minds want to know.

Good question.

Chipper spent one year, 536 PA.

Freddie spent one year 461 AB

Albies currently has 280 AB.

....

I think Ensceff thinks we should leave Albies down till he becomes a power hitter, but he's likely to exceed the at bats Chipper and Freeman around the deadline or perhaps earlier.

But, I would have left Swanson down last season (probably would have brought up Camargo first, honestly, if I had to bring someone up) and don't see any reason to bring Albies up until the roster spot opens naturally.

[Southcack77]

I agree that the players will develop about the same in AAA or the majors. So the question for me becomes...do you want them using up those valuable years of contractual control with "learning years" in the majors? I don't think so.


I think the point is that you can't learn how to hit major league pitching in AAA any more than you can in AA.

Being a major league hitter is constantly learning and adapting or so I've heard them say.

[thewupk]

Some of you have warped ideas on how development works. These kids aren't robots. Leaving them down in the minors too long can have a negative effect too. You don't learn to hit Syndergaard by facing AAA pitching. If anything being in the majors speeds up their development. Unless the time in the majors shatters their confidence it's not hurting them. Prospects in the high minors know they are close. Sometimes they try too hard to hit well enough to get a call up and struggle. Then never regain their original form.



The minor league's don't work like video games where prospects just continually progress because they are in the minors.

But you can learn how to hit a slider.

[smootness]

How much time did Freddie Freeman and Chipper Jones spend in AAA? Did it hurt their psyches? Did they become discouraged? Are they robots? Enquiring minds want to know.

How much time did Mike Trout spend in AAA? Altuve? Harper? Cabrera?

[thewupk]

How much time did Mike Trout spend in AAA? Altuve? Harper? Cabrera?

So we want to compare Albies to 3 of the best hitting prospects in the past 20 years? Altuve is an interesting case and someone I would peg as an abnormality in the baseball world.

[smootness]

So we want to compare Albies to 3 of the best hitting prospects in the past 20 years? Altuve is an interesting case and someone I would peg as an abnormality in the baseball world.

I'm just saying, skipping AAA nearly or entirely didn't slow down the development of any of them. And Altuve may be an abnormality, but he's probably the closest approximation of Albies' skill set overall.

[nsacpi]

I think the point is that you can't learn how to hit major league pitching in AAA any more than you can in AA.

Being a major league hitter is constantly learning and adapting or so I've heard them say.

I think learning takes place at all levels....to me the question is how much of it you want to take place in AAA and how much in the majors.

[nsacpi]

I'm just saying, skipping AAA nearly or entirely didn't slow down the development of any of them. And Altuve may be an abnormality, but he's probably the closest approximation of Albies' skill set overall.

I think skipping AAA was not good for some of our hitters...Francouer, Simmons, Andruw

[thewupk]

I'm just saying, skipping AAA nearly or entirely didn't slow down the development of any of them. And Altuve may be an abnormality, but he's probably the closest approximation of Albies' skill set overall.

It didn't. Those are also generational hitters like Arod and Griffey before them. I think the Altuve comp gets thrown around because they play the same position and have speed. Altuve has more power and Albies will play better defense (hopefully). How it all shakes out we will have to see.

I honestly only like rushing prospects that are undeniably phenomenal hitters. Or if there is an absolute position of need on a contending team. Otherwise it's wiser to just wait for multiple reasons.

[smootness]

I think skipping AAA was not good for some of our hitters...Francouer, Simmons, Andruw

We just won't ever know that. It's easy to point to those that skipped AAA and didn't fully realize their potential and say, 'That's because they skipped AAA.' It would be the same thing as taking a guy like Brian McCann, who had success and skipped AAA, and saying, 'That's because he skipped AAA.'

[smootness]

It didn't. Those are also generational hitters like Arod and Griffey before them. I think the Altuve comp gets thrown around because they play the same position and have speed. Altuve has more power and Albies will play better defense (hopefully). How it all shakes out we will have to see.

I honestly only like rushing prospects that are undeniably phenomenal hitters. Or if there is an absolute position of need on a contending team. Otherwise it's wiser to just wait for multiple reasons.

But we also groan about having Heyward mostly skip AAA, and he was an undeniably phenomenal hitter. If anything, those are the guys that fans will want to be even more protective of.

[thewupk]

But we also groan about having Heyward mostly skip AAA, and he was an undeniably phenomenal hitter. If anything, those are the guys that fans will want to be even more protective of.

Yeah Heyward gets it a lot. Andruw too. I don't think it would of mattered with either of them. Andruw I think just didn't have the ability to hit for a good average at the major league level for whatever reason. That's no slight on him because it's just hard to do that. But he had the power and walk rate and was a good hitter. Heyward I think really just screwed up by getting hit in the head. He swing is different now and has zero power. It's a shame.

Those two also came up at times when the Braves had a spot open and were contenders. It made sense to bring them up to help the big league team. Furcal too (even though he was older than what we thought at the time).

Would Albies be a lessor hitter if he came up in two months? Hard to say. Would staying in AAA all year hurt him? I seriously doubt that.

[nsacpi]

We just won't ever know that. It's easy to point to those that skipped AAA and didn't fully realize their potential and say, 'That's because they skipped AAA.' It would be the same thing as taking a guy like Brian McCann, who had success and skipped AAA, and saying, 'That's because he skipped AAA.'

True. It is an topic where you can point to examples that supports different points of view. As far as I know there hasn't been a carefully done study of whether aggressive promotion affects outcomes in terms of major league careers.

I don't think Swanson skipping AAA will hurt him. But I do think it will hurt the Braves.

[Southcack77]

I think skipping AAA was not good for some of our hitters...Francouer, Simmons, Andruw

My guess is those guys turned out to be the hitters they were always going to be.

I don't think a year of triple a was going to teach 400 HR hitter Andruw Jones to lay off that low and away breaking ball, or Francouer to take a walk, or Simmons to be more than an average hitter.

[Southcack77]

We just won't ever know that. It's easy to point to those that skipped AAA and didn't fully realize their potential and say, 'That's because they skipped AAA.' It would be the same thing as taking a guy like Brian McCann, who had success and skipped AAA, and saying, 'That's because he skipped AAA.'

I think it is a subtle strain of homerism. Thinking your own players are, or should have been, better than they turned out to be.

You can see this with guys like Alex Wood, Povse, Andrelton Simmons, etc. Some folks apply it to those who are here, others do it on those who left. Others do it on everyone. Seems to be most potent when directed at players who came up through the system.

[nsacpi]

I think it is a subtle strain of homerism. Thinking your own players are, or should have been, better than they turned out to be.

You can see this with guys like Alex Wood, Povse, Andrelton Simmons, etc. Some folks apply it to those who are here, others do it on those who left. Others do it on everyone. Seems to be most potent when directed at players who came up through the system.

Its a fairly subtle issue and I'm mostly agnostic about it. The part I wonder about concerns players who do not adjust well when the league finds a weakness in their game. I always wonder about those players if maybe time in AAA would have improved their ability to adjust. AAA has a lot of crafty pitchers who have pitched in the majors and know how to identify and exploit any weaknesses a hitter has. But maybe guys like Francouer would never learn to adjust no matter how much time in AAA.

[thewupk]

Its a fairly subtle issue and I'm mostly agnostic about it. The part I wonder about concerns players who do not adjust well when the league finds a weakness in their game. I always wonder about those players if maybe time in AAA would have improved their ability to adjust. AAA has a lot of crafty pitchers who have pitched in the majors and know how to identify and exploit any weaknesses a hitter has. But maybe guys like Francouer would never learn to adjust no matter how much time in AAA.

Eric Thames fully credits playing in Korea as his development as a hitter. He had issues staying back and laying off breaking stuff. He said in Korea that's all they throw.

[Southcack77]

Eric Thames fully credits playing in Korea as his development as a hitter. He had issues staying back and laying off breaking stuff. He said in Korea that's all they throw.

Sending Albies or Swanson to Korea seems extreme.

[thewupk]

Sending Albies or Swanson to Korea seems extreme.

May be the only way for Swanson to be able to hit the slider.

[nsacpi]

Eric Thames fully credits playing in Korea as his development as a hitter. He had issues staying back and laying off breaking stuff. He said in Korea that's all they throw.

The question is whether Francouer would have learned the way Thames did. I do think AAA can give you that opportunity to change your approach in the way Thames did in Korea. But the player has to be receptive to the experience and able to make the adjustments.

Thames himself didn't make those adjustments in AAA. I think part of it was he was a bit more mature as a person when he went to Korea. And sometimes being in a very different environment makes you more open to new things. Its a complicated subject.

On the pitching side Roy Halladay famously reinvented himself when sent down to the minors.

[thewupk]

In other news TD now has as many walks as he does strikeouts. Very encouraging.

[thewupk]

The question is whether Francouer would have learned the way Thames did. I do think AAA can give you that opportunity to change your approach in the way Thames did in Korea. But the player has to be receptive to the experience and able to make the adjustments.

Thames himself didn't make those adjustments in AAA. I think part of it was he was a bit more mature as a person when he went to Korea. And sometimes being in a very different environment makes you more open to new things. Its a complicated subject.

I agree. Sometimes players just don't have the ability to do what needs to be done no matter how much 'development' they have. Each person is different.

[smootness]

Francouer brought a football player's mentality to baseball, which was that he was going to go as hard as he could after every play. That unfortunately meant he tried to hit everything, and he tried to hit it as hard as he could.

I don't think any amount of additional minor league time would have helped him. I mean, it's not as though once a player arrives in the majors, he's a finished product that can't improve or adjust. There is nothing that would mean a player like Francouer can't learn to lay off breaking pitches after seeing them in the majors. In that way, what's the real difference between being in AAA vs. MLB?

And Simmons was always seen as a guy who could make contact but swung at just about everything, rarely walked, and didn't have much pop. That's pretty much what he is and was always going to be.

[nsacpi]

I don't think "football mentality" is really the story with Francoeur. Other football players who played baseball (Kirk Gibson to name one) had decent walk rates and showed more of an ability to adjust.

Simmons developed some bad habits in 2014 after hitting 17 home runs in 2013. To his credit, he improved his approach in recent years.

[Enscheff]

Some of you have warped ideas on how development works. These kids aren't robots. Leaving them down in the minors too long can have a negative effect too. You don't learn to hit Syndergaard by facing AAA pitching. If anything being in the majors speeds up their development. Unless the time in the majors shatters their confidence it's not hurting them. Prospects in the high minors know they are close. Sometimes they try too hard to hit well enough to get a call up and struggle. Then never regain their original form.



The minor league's don't work like video games where prospects just continually progress because they are in the minors.

Really? What happened with Thames? He has major contact issues, and then spent a few years in the KBO, which is the equivalent of AA. It looks like all those reps against lesser competition certainly helped him improve as a player.

Every single silly bit of anecdotal evidence you throw out can be countered with another piece of anecdotal evidence. That's why nobody with any amount of brain power relies on it when making decisions.

[Enscheff]

I'm just saying, skipping AAA nearly or entirely didn't slow down the development of any of them. And Altuve may be an abnormality, but he's probably the closest approximation of Albies' skill set overall.

I'l give you a few minutes to look up the difference between those teams and the current Braves team before I point out the flaw in your logic.

Here's a hint...the Braves were in the same position as those other teams when they decided to promote Heyward early enough to lose the extra year of control.

[Enscheff]

In other news TD now has as many walks as he does strikeouts. Very encouraging.

That certainly is a good development. Now let's see him get some reps at 3B.

[Enscheff]

I don't think "football mentality" is really the story with Francoeur. Other football players who played baseball (Kirk Gibson to name one) had decent walk rates and showed more of an ability to adjust.

Simmons developed some bad habits in 2014 after hitting 17 home runs in 2013. To his credit, he improved his approach in recent years.

I think intelligence as a whole factors into issues guys like Frenchy and Andruw had with hitting. Let's just say they were never the most cerebral guys on the field.

[4maddux_cy's]

Yeah Heyward gets it a lot. Andruw too. I don't think it would of mattered with either of them. Andruw I think just didn't have the ability to hit for a good average at the major league level for whatever reason. That's no slight on him because it's just hard to do that. But he had the power and walk rate and was a good hitter. Heyward I think really just screwed up by getting hit in the head. He swing is different now and has zero power. It's a shame.

Those two also came up at times when the Braves had a spot open and were contenders. It made sense to bring them up to help the big league team. Furcal too (even though he was older than what we thought at the time).

Would Albies be a lessor hitter if he came up in two months? Hard to say. Would staying in AAA all year hurt him? I seriously doubt that.


I have always partially blamed the Braves coaches for Heyward. When they talked him into trying to be a pull hitter instead of using the full field like he always had because they wanted more home runs I was furious. Even Chipper called that move within the first few days a bad decision when Chip and Joe asked him during a game. I thought it was pretty bold to go so against the franchise live on air like that but he was absolutely right. Heyward just kept rolling over balls trying to pull everything for a good while after that.

Chipper just has a great understanding of hitting. Not all great hitters do as it comes so naturally for a lot of them. He understands the subtle things that make up hitting. That is why I wish he had more desire to be a coach.

[cajunrevenge]

Yeah Heyward gets it a lot. Andruw too. I don't think it would of mattered with either of them. Andruw I think just didn't have the ability to hit for a good average at the major league level for whatever reason. That's no slight on him because it's just hard to do that. But he had the power and walk rate and was a good hitter. Heyward I think really just screwed up by getting hit in the head. He swing is different now and has zero power. It's a shame.

Those two also came up at times when the Braves had a spot open and were contenders. It made sense to bring them up to help the big league team. Furcal too (even though he was older than what we thought at the time).

Would Albies be a lessor hitter if he came up in two months? Hard to say. Would staying in AAA all year hurt him? I seriously doubt that.

Andruw said he could hit .300 if he wanted to but would only hit 20 homers a year. Personally I wish he would have done that.

[Southcack77]

Andruw said he could hit .300 if he wanted to but would only hit 20 homers a year. Personally I wish he would have done that.

Shoot Andruw couldn't have laid off that pitch if you offered him lifetime access to the champagne room.

[4maddux_cy's]

The thing that really was frustrating about Andruw is he would go a 3 week stretch now and then where he was laying off that pitch and would absolutely be a machine at the plate. Then suddenly he would have a game where he hits a couple bombs and that was it. You just knew that he was going to get homer happy and try to hit every pitch out of the park. Same thing with Furcal. As soon as he hit a home run I always would shake my head because yo knew for the next 3 weeks that's all he was going to try to do.