THURSDAY MINORS FINAL 5/25 ... $$$$ Pitchers on Parade

[rico43]

THURSDAY SCOREBOARD

CLASS AAA

Buffalo 4, Gwinnett 1

LP: Sims (4-2) 5 IP, 5 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 4 K
Morris 3 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 4 K
Peterson 1 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K

Tuisasosopo 1-4, HR (3rd), RBI
Peterson 1-4
Albies 0-4, 2 K
L.Adams 1-4, SB

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_05_25_bufaaa_gwiaaa_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)


CLASS AA

Pensacola 2, Mississippi 0

LP: Allard (4-2) 5 IP, 6 H, 2 R, 4 BB, 5 K
Pfeifer 2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 5 K
Reynolds 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 0 K
Brother 1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K

Demeritte 1-4, 2B
Acuna 1-4
Meneses 2-4

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_05_25_penaax_msbaax_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)

ADVANCED CLASS A

GAME ONE
Clearwater 8, Florida 1 (7)

LP: Medlen (1-1) 5.1 IP, 9 H, 5 ER, 1 BB, 3 K, HR
Lewis 1.2 IP, 2 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 2 K

Morales 2-3, RBI
Seymour 1-3, CS
Riley 1-3, 2 K

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_05_25_clrafa_floafa_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)

GAME TWO
Clearwater 8, Florida 1 (7)

LP: Toussaint (1-6) 6 IP, 6 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 6 K, 2 HR
Graham 1 IP, 3 H, 4 ER, 2 BB, 0 K

Neslony 3-3, 2B, R
Riley 1-3, RBI

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_05_25_clrafa_floafa_2&t=g_box&sid=milb)


CLASS A

Rome 6, Augusta 2 (10)

SP: Anderson 6 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 11 K, HBP
Hellinger 1 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 1 K
WP: B.S. White (1-0) 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 2 K
Navarro 1 IP, 1 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 0 K

Ventura 3-5, 2B, 2 R, SB (.346)
Cumberland 2-4, 2B, R, 4 RBI
Ellison 1-5, 2 RBI
Josephina 2-4, R, SB

LINK (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2017_05_25_romafx_augafx_1&t=g_box&sid=milb)

All Times Eastern

[Preacher]

great line up of pitchers.

Anderson could use a good outing, he hasn't been getting shelled but the BBs are getting a little high.

Hopefully Touki can build on his last outing.

[cajunrevenge]

I feel pretty good about Anderson at the moment. I think his struggles with walks is just him working on secondary pitches.

[Preacher]

I feel pretty good about Anderson at the moment. I think his struggles with walks is just him working on secondary pitches.

12.3 K/9 and he's been hurt by a .398 BABIP, so his ERA is probably a little bit of bad luck.

I like him a lot, but its clear the control needs to keep getting better.

[zbhargrove]

Hope Sims can put the last outing behind him and keep up where he left off before.

[smootness]

12.3 K/9 and he's been hurt by a .398 BABIP, so his ERA is probably a little bit of bad luck.

I like him a lot, but its clear the control needs to keep getting better.

His numbers are sort of a hodge-podge right now. High BABIP, slightly low LOB%, but he hasn't given up a HR yet despite a lower GB%. So his ERA probably isn't too abnormally high. You would expect the number of hits to come down but for him to give up more HR moving forward.

[zbhargrove]

Oy... 3rd inning Sims gets a quick first out then walks the bases loaded.

[smootness]

Grand slam. Ouch.

[Garmel]

Sims just gave a three run homer. Has given up 4 runs. He just doesn't look ready for the big show yet.

[zbhargrove]

Grand slam. Ouch.

3 run homer... but still uggghh

[zbhargrove]

Sims just gave a three run homer. Has given up 4 runs. He just doesn't look ready for the big show yet.

He did until these past 2 starts. But maybe that dominant stretch was a bit of a mirage.

[bravesfanMatt]

Man, step away for 5 minutes and it goes to ****.. no but watching Sims this game, he was playing with fire. pitches up in zone... a lot.

[msstate7]

Man, step away for 5 minutes and it goes to ****.. no but watching Sims this game, he was playing with fire. pitches up in zone... a lot.

Pitching up will be ok at suntrust though... ball doesn't carry at all

[zbhargrove]

Weird outing for Sims... there was that one bad inning where the control went off the rails and other than that, he's been pretty good.

[Enscheff]

Weird outing for Sims... there was that one bad inning where the control went off the rails and other than that, he's been pretty good.

When MLB introduces the "throw out your worst inning rule", the Braves will be set!

[bravesfanMatt]

When MLB introduces the "throw out your worst inning rule", the Braves will be set!

Wait.. what.. are they talking about that because that would be killer.. I mean Colon would be dea..wait, no he wouldn't..

[zbhargrove]

When MLB introduces the "throw out your worst inning rule", the Braves will be set!

Let's start a mulligan inning policy. Should keep things interesting.

[bravesfanMatt]

Sims was what I expect from Sims really. even his clean innings were a struggle. Deep counts. pitches that were complete wastes.. I mean if you throw a FB up.. don't follow it up with another fastball up and away. usually you go down on your next pitch... I felt his whole start today was pretty shaky..

[zbhargrove]

Sims was what I expect from Sims really. even his clean innings were a struggle. Deep counts. pitches that were complete wastes.. I mean if you throw a FB up.. don't follow it up with another fastball up and away. usually you go down on your next pitch... I felt his whole start today was pretty shaky..

Yeah, I couldn't watch today so I was just looking at the box score.

[thewupk]

He did until these past 2 starts. But maybe that dominant stretch was a bit of a mirage.

That should be obvious. 3 walks in 5 innings is the same Sims we have always seen.

[zbhargrove]

That should be obvious. 3 walks in 5 innings is the same Sims we have always seen.

It was 3 walks in just one of those 5 innings. But hey, thanks for the really valuable comment.

[thewupk]

It was 3 walks in just one of those 5 innings. But hey, thanks for the really valuable comment.

Does that really give you encouragement?

[Enscheff]

Does that really give you encouragement?

I guess zb think it's better to walk all 3 guys in 1 inning and give up 4 runs than to space those walks out over multiple innings?

[Hawk]

Sims will be fine. He's a lot like Folty in the sense that sometimes his emotions tend to run his game. Still has a considerable amount of maturing to do in that realm.

[Enscheff]

Sims was what I expect from Sims really. even his clean innings were a struggle. Deep counts. pitches that were complete wastes.. I mean if you throw a FB up.. don't follow it up with another fastball up and away. usually you go down on your next pitch... I felt his whole start today was pretty shaky..

Not to worry, he had a good stretch to start the year and this is just 2 bad starts in a row.

You must always remember, good outings are a sign of improvement, while bad outings are just "a bad day, everyone has them".

[zbhargrove]

Does that really give you encouragement?

Actually yes... it makes me think he had a temporary mental lapse that is typical with a young adult. Something that can be corrected.

[smootness]

I mean, it is better than walking 3 in every inning.

[bravesfanMatt]

I see Newk being more like Folty. I think he is in his incline phase of his development. Sims might be more like Wisler unfortunately. Just someone who might not have enough to make it as a starter.

I am not advocating him going to the pen yet. you keep running him out there.. just he seems like someone who could benefit from unleashing him and letting him go hard and fast for 1 inning over trying to stretch him out over 7.

[Hawk]

just he seems like someone who could benefit from unleashing him and letting him go hard and fast for 1 inning over trying to stretch him out over 7.

I think the reason that hasn't happened yet is because Sims would likely have a conniption fit. He wants to start and has been vocal about it for years.

But yeah, I agree ... more and more it seems as though that role (single-inning fireballer) is going to suit him best.

[Southcack77]

wish someone would tell these kids they don't have to strike everyone out. might help some of them with their pitch counts.

[50PoundHead]

The thing I've noticed about a lot of the Braves' young pitchers at both the major and minor league levels is that they are prone to not being able to stop the bleeding and instead let an inning get too big. The wheels seem to come off for these guys on a moment's notice.

[Southcack77]

The thing I've noticed about a lot of the Braves' young pitchers at both the major and minor league levels is that they are prone to not being able to stop the bleeding and instead let an inning get too big. The wheels seem to come off for these guys on a moment's notice.

That's something a lot of young pitchers go through.

[50PoundHead]

That's something a lot of young pitchers go through.

Which is why I'm not terribly worried. They just need to learn to trust their stuff instead of muscling up and trying to strike everyone out.

[buck75]

Sometimes I wish the Braves would just cut Colon & give Sims some MLB starts.

[CJ9]

Three perfect innings for Ian Anderson with 7 Ks. 37 pitches, 27 strikes.

[msstate7]

Cumberland 1-2, RBI
Ventura 2-2, 2b,SB

[CJ9]

4 innings for Anderson with 9 Ks and 1 BB

[msstate7]

Demeritte 1-1, 2b

[CJ9]

Anderson probably at his pitch count. 6 IP, 1 H, 1 BB, 0 R, 11 K.

[50PoundHead]

Anderson probably at his pitch count. 6 IP, 1 H, 1 BB, 0 R, 11 K.

Great night for him.

[Hawk]

Anderson probably at his pitch count. 6 IP, 1 H, 1 BB, 0 R, 11 K.

That's a BPA line right there.

[smootness]

That's a BPA line right there.

Sure wish we hadn't gone cheap so we could have Riley Pint.

[CJ9]

Touki: 6 IP, 6 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 6 K. Two of the three walks were intentional, one came right before a three-run homer that accounted for most of the damage.

[50PoundHead]

Sure wish we hadn't gone cheap so we could have Riley Pint.

I've been thinking the same thing. Pint probably has a higher ceiling, but if he doesn't find his control he'll be enjoying his bonus money on a fishing boat.

[50PoundHead]

Brett Cumberland now has 26 RBIs on 23 hits.

[msstate7]

Brett Cumberland now has 26 RBIs on 23 hits.

Just knows how to drive guys in.

[TheBravos]

Good for Brett. I was amazed that he was drafted high as a hitter, and then couldn't hit. Glad there's a little hope. That was going to be a big loss to have someone fail that highly drafted...he could still fail...but maybe not.

[msstate7]

Good for Brett. I was amazed that he was drafted high as a hitter, and then couldn't hit. Glad there's a little hope. That was going to be a big lose to have someone fail that highly drafted...still fail...but maybe not.

I've been hoping (with absolutely no insight) that we've been working with him almost exclusively on catching and that's caused his offensive struggles

[striker42]

That's a BPA line right there.

I honestly hope I'm wrong and Anderson becomes a stud. However, I'm still of the belief that he tops out as a number 3 starter. Last night was a great game for him but it's still just one game. Just like his previous start was poor but it was still just one game.

I really hope something clicked and this was a breakout game but it'll take more to make me believe he's more than a middle of the rotation guy long term.

[Russ2dollas]

I honestly hope I'm wrong and Anderson becomes a stud. However, I'm still of the belief that he tops out as a number 3 starter. Last night was a great game for him but it's still just one game. Just like his previous start was poor but it was still just one game.

I really hope something clicked and this was a breakout game but it'll take more to make me believe he's more than a middle of the rotation guy long term.

Why?

Everything I've read says the FB is really good and can move. For a young guy he spots it well. Has the frame, still very skinny. Other two pitches flash.

You are more likely to be right if you say someone is going to be MOR or fail based on numbers. There are so very few TOR. But I don't see why there is any reason to be down on this kid other than most prospects don't become TOR starters.

[bravesfanMatt]

I honestly hope I'm wrong and Anderson becomes a stud. However, I'm still of the belief that he tops out as a number 3 starter. Last night was a great game for him but it's still just one game. Just like his previous start was poor but it was still just one game.

I really hope something clicked and this was a breakout game but it'll take more to make me believe he's more than a middle of the rotation guy long term.

One thing that always help a young pitcher bounce back.. Get to pitch against the absolute worst team in all of A ball. Great line.. he needs to follow it up now.

[striker42]

Why?

Everything I've read says the FB is really good and can move. For a young guy he spots it well. Has the frame, still very skinny. Other two pitches flash.

You are more likely to be right if you say someone is going to be MOR or fail based on numbers. There are so very few TOR. But I don't see why there is any reason to be down on this kid other than most prospects don't become TOR starters.

Mainly because to be a TOR guy you need something really exceptional to hang your hat on. Thor has the fastball (when he's healthy). Halladay had the sinker. Glavine's chageup was exceptional. Maddux, on the other hand, had insane command that let him carve hitters up.

I don't see Anderson as having anything that you point to and say that he'll be able to hang his hat on that. I think he'll end up with a very good fastball but it will be a notch or two below aces that rely on the overpowering fastball. I think his secondary stuff will be good as well but I don't see him ever having a Wainright curve or a Glavine changeup.

Also, I see his command topping out at average. If you want to be an ace with average command, you better have unbelievably filthy stuff.

Ultimately, I think he's a pitchers that does a lot of things well ad has a lot of value but can't ever reach that next level.

[Russ2dollas]

Mainly because to be a TOR guy you need something really exceptional to hang your hat on. Thor has the fastball (when he's healthy). Halladay had the sinker. Glavine's chageup was exceptional. Maddux, on the other hand, had insane command that let him carve hitters up.

I don't see Anderson as having anything that you point to and say that he'll be able to hang his hat on that. I think he'll end up with a very good fastball but it will be a notch or two below aces that rely on the overpowering fastball. I think his secondary stuff will be good as well but I don't see him ever having a Wainright curve or a Glavine changeup.

Also, I see his command topping out at average. If you want to be an ace with average command, you better have unbelievably filthy stuff.

Ultimately, I think he's a pitchers that does a lot of things well ad has a lot of value but can't ever reach that next level.

probably right b/c of the %s....but that's a lot of words suggesting he's a relatively fixed product at 18.

[Tapate50]

He's what... 18?

I don't see the point projecting him to anything right now on the high side or low side. He could add MPH. He could add a pitch. Whats the point?

To this point, there is likely no other pitcher from that draft we'd rather have given the results he's shown. That's pretty much all we need to know.

And striker, there are lots of top of the rotation guys that didn't have a hammer pitch. They just weren't hall of famers like the guys you listed. Again, that's all way off projection to this point though.

[Tapate50]

That's a BPA line right there.

This is a great line. Beat me to it.

[striker42]

He's what... 18?

I don't see the point projecting him to anything right now on the high side or low side. He could add MPH. He could add a pitch. Whats the point?

To this point, there is likely no other pitcher from that draft we'd rather have given the results he's shown. That's pretty much all we need to know.

And striker, there are lots of top of the rotation guys that didn't have a hammer pitch. They just weren't hall of famers like the guys you listed. Again, that's all way off projection to this point though.

Anderson absolutely could experience a jump of development and become a legit ace. There have been a lot of aces that weren't seen as having a high ceiling before figuring something out and exploding. However, that kind of development is insanely difficult to project.

And yes, there have been top of the rotation guys that didn't have a plus-plus pitch or insane control. However, they usually have multiple plus pitches paired with plus control and a great understanding of how to pitch. You usually aren't able to point to any real weakness in their game. However, it's far more usual for aces to have some exceptional aspect to their game that they lean on.

[TheBravos]

He's what... 18?

I don't see the point projecting him to anything right now on the high side or low side. He could add MPH. He could add a pitch. Whats the point?

To this point, there is likely no other pitcher from that draft we'd rather have given the results he's shown. That's pretty much all we need to know.

And striker, there are lots of top of the rotation guys that didn't have a hammer pitch. They just weren't hall of famers like the guys you listed. Again, that's all way off projection to this point though.

^^^

[Enscheff]

I honestly hope I'm wrong and Anderson becomes a stud. However, I'm still of the belief that he tops out as a number 3 starter. Last night was a great game for him but it's still just one game. Just like his previous start was poor but it was still just one game.

I really hope something clicked and this was a breakout game but it'll take more to make me believe he's more than a middle of the rotation guy long term.

A legit #3 SP is a stud. Folks need to stop thinking it's a knock on a guy to call him a #3 SP. A legit #3 SP gets paid $100M when he hits the FA market around age 30. A legit #3 SP produces ~3 WAR, and is worth $20M+ per year.

Do you have any idea how exceedingly rare it is for a guy to be tabbed as a TOR prospect? And how even more rare it is to have that guy actually become a TOR pitcher for even 1-2 seasons? And how insanely rare it is for one of those guys to become a longer term TOR pitcher?

Posi-Braves throw the term "TOR starter" around so loosely it has essentially lost all meaning around here. There are probably 3 true TOR prospects in the game right now (Giolito, Reyes, and Kopech), and only 2 if you no longer believe in Giolito.

[smootness]

I would be thrilled if Anderson turned into a legit #3 starter.

And TOR prospects are rarely the guys who actually become TOR starters.

[Southcack77]

A legit #3 SP is a stud. Folks need to stop thinking it's a knock on a guy to call him a #3 SP. A legit #3 SP gets paid $100M when he hits the FA market around age 30. A legit #3 SP produces ~3 WAR, and is worth $20M+ per year.

Do you have any idea how exceedingly rare it is for a guy to be tabbed as a TOR prospect? And how even more rare it is to have that guy actually become a TOR pitcher for even 1-2 seasons? And how insanely rare it is for one of those guys to become a longer term TOR pitcher?

Posi-Braves throw the term "TOR starter" around so loosely it has essentially lost all meaning around here. There are probably 3 true TOR prospects in the game right now (Giolito, Reyes, and Kopech), and only 2 if you no longer believe in Giolito.

That's sort of odd since there are 64 #1 and #2 starters in the major leagues. Looks like we have a historic shortage coming in the future.

[Enscheff]

That's sort of odd since there are 64 #1 and #2 starters in the major leagues. Looks like we have a historic shortage coming in the future.

Umm, you think every team has 2 legit TOR starters? OK bud...

[Preacher]

Every team literally has a guy who pitches at the top of rotation, but obviously there's only a couple true aces out there.

If Anderson.... or any draft pick for that matter... develops into a guy who consistently pitches in the middle of a MLB rotation; that's obviously a very successful pick.

I think people spend far too much time trying to argue over whether someone projects at a #1/#2/#3 ect... you just need to develop good, durable and consistent pitchers. Very likely none of them will become a true ace, but that's OK.

[seanyates]

That's sort of odd since there are 64 #1 and #2 starters in the major leagues. Looks like we have a historic shortage coming in the future.

This is one of the most ignorant statements I've seen on here, and that's saying something.

[thewupk]

Umm, you think every team has 2 legit TOR starters? OK bud...

People easily get confused. They think Julio is a #1 just because he has been our best starter.

[TheBravos]

He's a 5 barely right now lol

[Southcack77]

Umm, you think every team has 2 legit TOR starters? OK bud...

I don't really know what you are referring to as a top of the rotation starter.

You've defined a player you haven't seen play as a #3 starter and rightly said that a #3 starter is a good and valuable thing.

You haven't really said what a top of the rotation starter is except to say there are three prospects in all of baseball who might be one.

Is this synonymous with the term "Ace". Does it only refer to Hall of Famers?

If so, what is a #2 starter?

[Southcack77]

People easily get confused. They think Julio is a #1 just because he has been our best starter.

I think Julio is a #3 or a #4 in a championship rotation. Maybe a #5.

[thewupk]

I think Julio is a #3 or a #4 in a championship rotation. Maybe a #5.

2014 and 2016 Julio is #3 or low end #2.

[Southcack77]

2014 and 2016 Julio is #3 or low end #2.

I mean i could totally see Julio getting shelled in a pivotal game 3, 6, or 7, so I'm with you.

[Enscheff]

I don't really know what you are referring to as a top of the rotation starter.

You've defined a player you haven't seen play as a #3 starter and rightly said that a #3 starter is a good and valuable thing.

You haven't really said what a top of the rotation starter is except to say there are three prospects in all of baseball who might be one.

Is this synonymous with the term "Ace". Does it only refer to Hall of Famers?

If so, what is a #2 starter?

I'm referring to the widely accepted 20-80 scouting scale literally everyone references when talking about prospects:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scouting-explained-the-20-80-scouting-scale/

[Southcack77]

I'm referring to the widely accepted 20-80 scouting scale literally everyone references when talking about prospects:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scouting-explained-the-20-80-scouting-scale/

Well, you didn't use the 20-80 scale prior to this post, so that is confusing.

Also that scale doesn't define "top of the rotation starter" which is also confusing.

So, based on this scale, is a TOR in your view equal to a #1 Starter? A #1 or #2 starter? Something else?

I'm assuming you mean a #1 since you think only three prospects in all of baseball might amount to a TOR starter.

[thewupk]

I'm assuming you mean a #1 since you think only three prospects in all of baseball might amount to a TOR starter.

That's probably accurate. Pitchers that develop into consistent 5+ WAR pitchers are rare. That's also not to say a pitcher can't be a TOR level starter for a given year. That happens. But to consistently do it for even a 3-4 year stretch? Only a handful will attain that.

[striker42]

Every team literally has a guy who pitches at the top of rotation, but obviously there's only a couple true aces out there.

If Anderson.... or any draft pick for that matter... develops into a guy who consistently pitches in the middle of a MLB rotation; that's obviously a very successful pick.

I think people spend far too much time trying to argue over whether someone projects at a #1/#2/#3 ect... you just need to develop good, durable and consistent pitchers. Very likely none of them will become a true ace, but that's OK.

Two things that are often talked about in these conversations are ceiling and projection. They aren't the same thing but often people are arguing back and forth with each other on them. Ceiling is the best a player can realistically become. Projection is more what you think a player will actually be.

Both of these things come into play when you're selecting a draft pick. If you're picking a pitcher in the top three you usually want him to have a TOR ceiling. It's foolish to project any pitching prospect as a TOR starter but you at least want that to be a possibility. I think this is where the dispute over Anderson comes in. Picking at 3, we had our choice of any pitcher in the draft. There were a lot of pitchers in that draft that project as middle of the rotation starters. Some will attain that, others will bust. But a lot have that projection.

The question over whether Anderson was who we should have targeted comes in with his ceiling. If his ceiling is a number 3 starter then he really shouldn't have gone at 3. If he has a TOR ceiling but looks more likely to be a middle of the rotation guy, then there's a much better argument to take him 3rd.

[Southcack77]

That's probably accurate. Pitchers that develop into consistent 5+ WAR pitchers are rare. That's also not to say a pitcher can't be a TOR level starter for a given year. That happens. But to consistently do it for even a 3-4 year stretch? Only a handful will attain that.

I think there may be a few more at a given time in the minors, though it might not be guys who are identified.

[Enscheff]

Yeah, I'm not going to bother arguing semantics with you.

[Southcack77]

Two things that are often talked about in these conversations are ceiling and projection. They aren't the same thing but often people are arguing back and forth with each other on them. Ceiling is the best a player can realistically become. Projection is more what you think a player will actually be.

Both of these things come into play when you're selecting a draft pick. If you're picking a pitcher in the top three you usually want him to have a TOR ceiling. It's foolish to project any pitching prospect as a TOR starter but you at least want that to be a possibility. I think this is where the dispute over Anderson comes in. Picking at 3, we had our choice of any pitcher in the draft. There were a lot of pitchers in that draft that project as middle of the rotation starters. Some will attain that, others will bust. But a lot have that projection.

The question over whether Anderson was who we should have targeted comes in with his ceiling. If his ceiling is a number 3 starter then he really shouldn't have gone at 3. If he has a TOR ceiling but looks more likely to be a middle of the rotation guy, then there's a much better argument to take him 3rd.

I'm just not sure the Braves would have passed over someone they strong believed in to work a draft strategy.

i genuinely thing they really liked Anderson and think he had a higher ceiling that you folks want to put on him.

I realize this is a different draft but beyond Greene, I'm not seeing a ton of difference in the raw stuff of the pitchers being discussed and Anderson. They all seem to work in the low 90s and flash 95-96.